"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FeelGoodMd;2177322]My main SB just spoke with my wife.
Yes, the reaction you all just had was what I experienced as well, though about 1000-fold stronger.
( stuff snipped)
[/QUOTE]Just reading your post stressed me and I'm not even married (anymore). It just brings back memories of what were not really close calls, but things that left me wondering if a close call had occurred or if I was just being paranoid about coincidences.

I will never have an SB in the same town as long as I'm in this relationship with my GF. There's just too many opportunities for paths to cross. Imagine if your wife had your SB sit down near her desk to fill out a form or something, and your SB sees a picture of you on your wife's desk. Probably no immediate reaction but sometime down the road if you had a falling out with your SB, you can be almost certain you'll hear something like "oh yeah? Well how about I go talk it over with your wife", etc.

My second chance offer is slowly working. I got some replies from some real stunners. The kind that always seem to blow me off initially. The ones that really are the 9's and 10's in the looks dept. At this point getting the 7's is like shooting fish in a barrel. Lucky there are so so many girls in L. A. I can get blown off 90+% of the time and I could care less. I been using the second chance letter as the initial message to the Cougars and still no luck. Hot Cougars in L. A. Are really a joke. Their expectations are through the roof. They been way too spoiled as SO's to come down to reality.

I can only assume that if a 9 or 10 does get back to me she is not a UTR. A super hot UTR would never take a $ a visit. Unless it was the day before her period. lol.

Hey all. Like I said in my last post, thanks for all the info. You guys have been really helpful. I'm working my way backwards after reading the first dozen or so pages. Really need a FAQ or newbie guide here to summarize the key points, but I digress.

Quick intro. I'm 35, live near Boston, married. Can only hobby during the day. I've done escorting and MPs in the past. I'm not poor, but I'm not rich either, so SBs are appealing from a lower CPO perspective as well as feeling less mechanical and cold than escorting. I dabbled with SBs a few years back, found one on SD4 M but she was super flaky and we only met up twice. Found another on CL who was really more of a UTR. That was pretty good, but again, mechanical. Moreover, very flaky. Since my hobby time is limited, I generally would rather pay a bit more to get reliable service than to waste time to save a few bucks.

Anyawy, I've spent the last few weeks messaging every girl on SA that met my criteria who's been on in in the last month or so: Available during the day (so students mostly, but some service industry and retail as well), young, and hot. Mostly white and asian girls, but some latin and african american, too. I had a lot of flakes. A lot. Here's the rundown:

POT 1: Ivy league girl next door. Pretty. Have a good chat with her. At this point, I haven't read this forum, so I'm winging it. I feel like we hit it off pretty well, but she wants 750/ date. Yeah, no. I talk her down to 500, but I still felt that was within norm for what I've paid high end escorts, so sure. Maybe. Let's see what else is out there.

Back to SA, not a lot of bites. I have no picture up at this point, which I think scared a lot of girls away. Oh well. I set something up with POT 1 and book a hotel room 2 weeks in advance. Did I mention I haven't read this forum at this point? .

Few days later I sneak away to do several M&Gs in one go. I setup 3 for the same day.

POT 2: Pretty 21 yr old Filipino with a nice rack. Seems too eager to meet, but I say fuck it. Supposed to meet for lunch. Emails just before we're supposed to meet saying she'll be an hour late. Fuck that, I think, I have two other hotties meeting me later, I don't need this flakiness. Tell her I can't do it, she goes silent.

POTs 3 and 4: Kinda dumb sounding 23 yr old brunette with a nice rack, and a pretty 22 yr old redhead student, respectively. Both no call no shows back to back on the same day. They both email me later apologizing with BS excuses. I tell them I'll be back from vacation in a week and we can try again later.

So that sucked. Ok, I feel I need guidance. I'm on lockdown for a week, so I decide to get some pointers. I find this forum. Thanks to the suggestions here, I improve my profile (face blocked out pic by default, private photos w / my face I only unlock if the girl seems real). Before I was being very targeted with my searching. Now I ratchet up the messages by a lot and do more of a shotgun approach to anyone meeting the criteria. Do less customizing of my intro message to save time. Get a lot more bites.

POT 4 was eager to meet ASAP. Cute American born Indian (dot not feather) 20 yr old college student spinner. I meet up with her, we M&G for 45 minutes or so. She's very cool, easy to talk to. I don't really get much of a sexual vibe from her, but she seems interested. We talk logistics, and when I finally bring up pricing, she says "whatever you think is fair". Ok. So we make plans for the following week to visit the FC. Great!

At this point I'm feeling pretty good, I've already got 2 M&Gs done, and I'm about to close both. Oh, hubris.

Fast forward a few days I'm supposed to meet POT 1 at the FC. Now that I've read up on the forum, I'm realizing how many mistakes I've made and how much this girl has GPS. I rationalize going through with it anyway, thinking I can talk her down to a more reasonable price after the deed is done. In retrospect, I should have canceled.

The day before I text to confirm. She confirms, but asks about price again. She's back to wanting 700. Sigh. I tell her we were down to 500, but she's not going for it. At this point it's too late for me to cancel the room so I try to get her to meet up and talk in person but she goes silent. Next day, I check in to see if she's still coming. She makes up some BS about getting an arrangement with another SD that night, and now she can't. I gripe to her about the room, but she ignores me. Ok, that sucked.

Now I have a FC, but no SB to F in the see. Back to SA. Conveniently one short 23 yo spinner POT reaches out and says she works right near the hotel I'm in. Sweet. I push to see if we can do a M&G ASAP. Lots of back and forth, turns out she's not at work, but can be there in an hour. We meet up. She's a bit of a butterface, but good body. Some tats, slutty skirt on.

I can tell it's on. We chat for maybe 5 minutes. I tell her honestly what happened (leaving out the $ issue), and let her know I'm stuck with a hotel room right around the corner if she wants to see if we have chemistry. She does!

We head up to the FC. She's on her period. Fuck this day is not going well. At this point, I'm kinda done, so I settle for a BBBJCIM. We chat for a bit after, finally talk compensation. She doesn't want to say a specific number so I give her 150, and she seems happy with that. I get the strong vibe she's more of a UTR girl. We don't make any plans to repeat other than vague promises to text. I think she's a BC keeper, maybe really freaky if she lives up the dress code. But definitely not a quality SB.

Next day, I had 3 more M&Gs planned. POT 5 - so so face, rocking body 24 yr old white girl "between jobs". POT 6 - pretty girl next door type 23 yr old latina. POT 7 - alternative looking 20 yr old white girl who seemed kinda sketchy.

POT 5 was in email hell for a long time. Lives an hour away, I kept saying don't bother coming into the city unless you're serious. She keeps pushing to come in, and I finally agree to meet. On the way she says she's lost, her phone is dying, etc. Drama. She finally shows up pretty late (I would have bailed, but had the 2 other M&Gs right afterwards). She's very apologetic, and we hit it off pretty well at the M&G. Logistically I can't make it work with her that often, but she looks like she'll be a good time. Agreed on 250.

POT 6 blows me off. Texted an hour later with a lame excuse, tries to reschedule for when she (should) know I'm not available. I tell her that doesn't work, haven't heard back since. Oh well.

POT 7 blows me off. SA profile goes away shortly after. Oh well.

Next day, I had 1 M&G planned with POT 8, a very promising blonde 24 yr old waitress. She seemed really cool, kinky, but nervous and definitely new to this scene. I hit her up shortly after she signed up on SA and had actually set this up while waiting for my BC the other day. I had a really good feeling about this one, but overnight she messaged me letting me know she had cold feet, wanted some reassurances. I didn't get a chance to reply when I saw it, and when I checked again about an hour before we were supposed to meet, she sent another message backing out. This sucked, especially given my overall luck so far (pretty shitty), but at least she was cool about it and let me know in advance. I sent her some calming email, and I'm still chipping away at her cold feet. I have a feeling this one will either be really worth the effort, or a one time thing.

Next day, I have 2 M&Gs planned. POT 2's second chance and POT 9, a different girl next door latina. POT 2 makes up excuses for being late. I don't have time to wait around, I bail.

POT 9 and I meet. She's pretty cool, not quite as pretty as her pictures. Seems a bit off, and I get a vibe towards the end like she either doesn't want to do this, or doesn't want to do me. She was supposed to follow up with me on something and hasn't yet, so I'm considering that a dead end.

Finally, today. Date with Indian POT 4 from what now seems like forever ago. Before we meet, I try to do a quick M&G with POT 10, a 25 yr old submissive AA nurse who's been hounding me to meet. She was running fairly late and my date was running early, so I cancelled that.

I meet up with my date (she's actually early!) who's wearing a really cute dress. It's lunch time so we get lunch, talk a lot. She's still really cool and easy to talk to. Head over to the FC. A bit of nerves on her side, I feel, but we get down to business and she's very responsive. Clean, smells good, loves her pussy eaten. We go two rounds before she has to run. I slip the sugar into her purse while she's showering thanks to the tips here. We make tentative plans for another date next week. I like her a lot, but her oral skills need some work. Hoping now that we've gotten some rapport I can work on training her.

That's it so far. Next week I've got a M&G with another Indian. I'm still hoping to close POT 8, a sheltered 22 yr old asian who's looking to get out of her shell. Oh, and I have either a potential for disaster or crazy sex with a 23 yr old brunette who's cheating on her boyfriend and wants me to punish her for being a bad girl.

Despite all the flakes, I'm having a good time, and really appreciate this thread. Thanks so much guys. I'll keep updating if people are interested.

[QUOTE=Mfp79;2177911]

POT 1: Ivy league girl next door. Pretty. Have a good chat with her. At this point, I haven't read this forum, so I'm winging it. I feel like we hit it off pretty well, but she wants 750/ date. Yeah, no. I talk her down to 500, but I still felt that was within norm for what I've paid high end escorts, so sure. Maybe. Let's see what else is out there.[/QUOTE]As a favor to everyone here (and especially yourself), please don't pay $$$$$ for this girl. You have so many POTS to choose from and you are just getting rolling. Good Luck. But it it seems you have no trouble making your own.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2177999]As a favor to everyone here (and especially yourself), please don't pay $$$$$ for this girl. You have so many POTS to choose from and you are just getting rolling. Good Luck. But it it seems you have no trouble making your own.[/QUOTE]I second this. One thing I have learned from this thread is to control my costs. There is not such thing as a pussy worth overpaying for. I personally set a top donation at 200. What I am surprised at is how much top shelf pussy is available for 150 or less.

Another thing to be considered is to NEVER book a hotel room to see a POT. Unless you have been to the FC with a woman already and have determined she will not "no show" or cancel you last minute, it's just not worth it. Even in the case of meeting at a SS, I never get the room until they confirm they are on the way. In the case of the first time, I meet at a close by watering hole first. We all know how many times we have had dates and then they don't show up.

[QUOTE=Mfp79;2177911] Quick intro. I'm 35, live near Boston, married. Can only hobby during the day. I've done escorting and MPs in the past. I'm not poor, but I'm not rich either, so SBs are appealing from a lower CPO perspective as well as feeling less mechanical and cold than escorting. [/QUOTE]You'll get varying opinions here and I won't claim mine is any more valid or pertinent to your own situation than anyone else's, but I don't think true SB's have a lower total CPO than escorts. With escorts, you pay by the hour, you finish your business and you move on. Done deal. Some of them might be pricey by the hour but their is no baggage or ongoing (operative word) expectation. If you were asking the escort to follow you around, chat, exchange constant e-mails etc with you, their income expectation would go up accordingly unless they genuinely like you and want to be around you. So if only looking for good sex, there is nothing more efficient than that if you're looking at things from a financial perspective. With SBs, you have such a varying scale of what even constitutes an SB (by that I mean in the mind of the girls themselves, in the mind of SDs both in this forum and elsewhere, etc). Some of them are looking for way more than an hour here or an hour there -- in that sense, if you're playing fairly with them, the total cost you're looking at with any given SB is easily in the thousands, tens of thousands if they have any say so. This if course doesn't mean you have to give them that, and this is where your game will come in, and your game will affect what you actually pay more than anything else.

My own story is possibly a little different than the rest in the bowl. I just don't like to be alone. I have a nice girlfriend already, who for my needs is better than most of the girls on these SB sites, but she does travel once or twice a year, I get horny and in the mood for some variety pussy which is the only reason I bang SBs at all. You're 35 which is still young, and IMO you should be using your youth to your advantage, finding other women your age who are married but horny for variety and have something else at stake if things should go sideways. Your lowest cost option is probably adult friend finder or something similar, just to satisfy the variety need.

You will find escorts and UTR girls on the SB websites posing as SBs, but it's not to your advantage to find them there, because they will view you as an ONGOING ATM MACHINE as opposed to the one-time-hits they find on BP, CL, seedy bars or wherever. This is to their advantage and not to yours. They see these sites as gold mines, and will tell you that you're the "only daddy". Want to find out if you really are? Ask to see their phone when they aren't expecting it, and tell them that to continue your arrangement, you'll need to keep the phone in your possession for the next 2 days. Watch how fast the pro posing as an SB runs.

A true SB is typically looking for an older "long term boyfriend" who makes enough money to keep her comfortable no matter what. That's the dream that all these girls have going in, whether they have the qualifications to make it happen or not. So based on what you've written about your own level in life, I'd say take full advantage of your youth and seek out the truly economical pussy.

As far as my own way of doing things, I never discuss money ahead of time. I meet them first. I tell them if they don't like me, then take off. A real SB cares about whether she is attracted to you or not. A pro just cares about how much you can pay. This means that a real SB will NEVER agree to something until she has met you and has decided in her own mind whether she wants to spread her legs for you or if she's only willing to do it with money on the table. Therefore, by making money offering ahead of time not only are you putting yourself at disadvantage, you've removed your ability to distinguish her from a pro vs. A true SB. It is a critical distinction than will make a difference in multiple zeros as to what you end up paying for pussy in your lifetime.

This post is not in the right thread.

I have noticed that when I type in 4 dollar signs only 2 will show up, test 4 $$ test 2 $$.

You'll get varying opinions here and I won't claim mine is any more valid or pertinent to your own situation than anyone else's, but I don't think true SB's have a lower total CPO than escorts. With escorts, you pay by the hour, you finish your business and you move on. Done deal.

The Sugar Bowl is much more expensive than escorts not to mention the time.

Escort.

Finding, researching, and making appt. 1 hour.

Driving to FC 1 hour.

Deed 1 hour.

Cost $300 - 400.

3 hours of time and 3-4 bills.

SB.

Finding, researching, communicating to the point of a M&G 2-3 hours.

50% flake factor increase the investment of time to M&G to 4-6 hours.

M&G will run $50.

Time to arrange for FC encounter 1 hour.

FC cost 100.

Allowance 200.

Other intangibles 50.

This works out to 7 - 10 hours of time and $400.

[QUOTE=Latex;2179052]You'll get varying opinions here and I won't claim mine is any more valid or pertinent to your own situation than anyone else's, but I don't think true SB's have a lower total CPO than escorts. With escorts, you pay by the hour, you finish your business and you move on. Done deal.

The Sugar Bowl is much more expensive than escorts not to mention the time.

Escort.

Finding, researching, and making appt. 1 hour.

Driving to FC 1 hour.

Deed 1 hour.

Cost $300 - 400.

3 hours of time and 3-4 bills.

SB.

Finding, researching, communicating to the point of a M&G 2-3 hours.

50% flake factor increase the investment of time to M&G to 4-6 hours.

M&G will run $50.

Time to arrange for FC encounter 1 hour.

FC cost 100.

Allowance 200.

Other intangibles 50.

This works out to 7 - 10 hours of time and $400.[/QUOTE]I don't think that most of the true np chasers on this thread would ever choose an escort over an SB based on the above stats. No matter if their stats were any better or worse than yours. It's the girls total mileage and how many guys it took to get it. Add up those stats and you might get creeped out. I know the only reason i do a pro or known utr girl is just to fill in. because even with aggressive sb hunting skills there is going to be down time between SB visits.

[QUOTE=Latex;2179052]You'll get varying opinions here and I won't claim mine is any more valid or pertinent to your own situation than anyone else's, but I don't think true SB's have a lower total CPO than escorts. With escorts, you pay by the hour, you finish your business and you move on. Done deal.

The Sugar Bowl is much more expensive than escorts not to mention the time.

Escort.

3 hours of time and 3-4 bills.

SB.

This works out to 7 - 10 hours of time and $400.[/QUOTE]I could quibble with some aspects of this analysis but let's agree it is substantially accurate. What you are leaving out is what you get with an SB versus an escort. When I meet an escort, I get one hour and a girl who I know or suspect is pretending. She can teach me but it's unlikely I will ever show her something she hasn't seen before. With my SB's, I get as much time as I need / want. I get something approaching a true GFE. I get a woman who is usually better looking, better dressed and less experienced than me in the FC. I can show her things that will curl her toes. So to speak. So, yes, I pay more and it takes more time but in the end I get a much better experience. That's called buying for value versus cost.

RB.

I think that I may have written about this before but want to share my experience with this situation and give an update. A little over a year ago I was on WYP and found a hot looking 40-something MILF who agreed to the FC if the M&G went well on the first date. I met her at a restaurant and it was clear to see that she had photo-shopped the pics and looked much older in real life than her pics. She still had a banging body so we had a bite then returned to my place for the FC. Not a bad fuck and was wanting to see her again, but she kept demanding more allowance and the straw that broke the camel's back was an early morning (6 am) rendezvous that she flaked on. Anyway she said that she was going to the beach and would be back Thursday. In the meantime, I'm chatting up this 19 yr-old hottie, and lo and behold, she tells me that she's from the same part of town as the MILF and is at the beach and won't be retuning until Thursday too. So Friday night rolls around and we are exchanging texts. She tells me that she wants to come over and see me, but her and mom share 1 car and she has to have it back after work. So I ask her what kind of car it is and sure enough it's the same kind of car as the MILF. She asked me if I could come pick her up and maybe we could fool around in my car, so off I go. Let me tell you that this girl is smoking hot and jumps right in my car. Now I know really nothing about the area where she lives but she tells me about a place we can go. I park the car and we begin making out and before I know it she's got her hands down my shorts and is going to town on the dick with her hand. I swear that I almost bust a nut right there. The place where we were was some sort of sports complex with baseball and soccer fields, so I grabbed a blanket and a pillow from my car and headed down to the soccer field. I laid back as she took off her top and started to kiss me again and got me rock hard. Then began a very enthusiastic BBBJCIM. It was one of the hottest sexual experiences I've had in my whole life without actually fucking. We get cleaned up and I drop her off and head on home. The next morning I'm awakened by my phone blowing up with about a dozen text messages from mom. She's telling me what a pervert (guilty) and pedophile (what, the girl's 19 years-old, checked her I'd) I am. Whatever, fucked her and her daughter and how they knew, I have no idea. UPDATE. Since then I have fucked the daughter again, this time really fucked at a local no-tel and I guess mom's ok with it. After all she is helping pay the bills, something dad doesn't do! In fact I found her (mom) on FB and she accepted my friend request. Since then she has been pestering me about hooking up again, but I've told her to just have her daughter call me, LOL. MW.

[QUOTE=CopperFool;2176583]I have never had this happen, but I would go and check Mom out. You never know, she might be hot and want a deal of her own.[/QUOTE]

Nice looking. 24 5'5 . Got to stay in the game.

Got flaked on. And the chase continues.

"Everything sounds great and I like what I see, I'm looking for a couple times a week or few times a month getting together 300 each time we see each other for 3-4 hours looking to have fun on our time and relax go to movies or lunch, dinner, cuddle watch tv or going out for a drink and if there is a connection maybe more. If you like what you hear we can exchange numbers".

Wow. And maybe more. LOL.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2181245]"Everything sounds great and I like what I see, I'm looking for a couple times a week or few times a month getting together 300 each time we see each other for 3-4 hours looking to have fun on our time and relax go to movies or lunch, dinner, cuddle watch tv or going out for a drink and if there is a connection maybe more. If you like what you hear we can exchange numbers".

Wow. And maybe more. LOL.[/QUOTE]Sounds like my Ex.