"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2145391]I just had an average MILF say I could meet her for a $$ dinner, LOL. For $$ I can get 80% of 9+ non white girls and half of the 7+ white ones. I swear I can get 10 18-22 young hotties for a $ before I can get an average MILF. Must be L. A. The cost of living here is high.

Also never ever meet any girl that hasnt sent you a clear, standing straight (not bent forward) pic. No matter how pretty they look.[/QUOTE]I usually try to get several pics. If her profile photo doesn't give me enough info, I will ask for more. Once you have several you can look for any weird patterns, like all of the photos are from one angle or none of them show her butt, etc. I've been fortunate that none of my SB M&Gs have been disappointing -- in fact I think all of them turned out as good or better than pics (mostly better). But, I learned a lot about what to look for in pic swapping when civy dating. One thing for sure, if she only sends selfies she took in a car, definitely demand to see more because she could have a decent face yet be a moose from the waist down.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2145397]A very nice stripper I know had some dirt put up there about her just because her x found out she slept around and did a couple of pornos. Thank god I am not married and my job is so underground even the people I work with have never met me.[/QUOTE]My work is fairly isolated from any real damage from something like that, but if searching on my name ever turned up a revenge page like that, I'd still do whatever was in my power to get it down even if I didn't have an SO, first and foremost just because I'm private in that way and would not be able to take something like that sitting down. Plus, I may not be in my current job forever and I don't like career options being potentially hindered by something like that. Also don't like the idea that friends and family could see that aspect of my personal life -- some young bimbo talking shit about me online.

[QUOTE=MuffDiver72;2144557]I have ran upon a 28 year old single mom in Roanoke Va and need some advice. She is staying in a motel with her 2 children and needs financial help. She's telling me she has no money and has to check out today. But then comes back and states she needs $300 by Wednesday. I was going to meet her yesterday for lunch but I was sick and could not make it. She wanted a $100 bucks just to meet and I got her down to $75. Does this sound like a scam? Any advice is much appreciated.[/QUOTE]Welcome to the forum. This is a great forum to sharpen up on your SB skills. We were all new to this at one time and have learned a few things the hard way. I NEVER pay them for a M&G. I will pay the date expenses, as in dinner or what ever, but not extra to sit and talk. I can stay home with the wife for that. Under no circumstances does anyone get anything until we go to the FC. And, they get nothing until we are done. More than once I have started to get dressed again when they demand to be paid up front. That is an Escort rule, not a SB rule. And since I am paying them, I play by MY rule. Funny how when they realize you are ready to end it how they change their mind.

As has been advised, run from this one. She will only drain your funds and leave you disappointed. There are much better finds out there for you.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2143176]As at least one other person has pointed out, clearing $$ per night for service jobs is pretty much the exception, not the rule. Keeping in mind the limitations of anecdotal evidence, my SB basically clears about a little over half a $ per day. That's after a couple of years in one of the more labor-friendly food chains. As low-paying as it is, she considers herself lucky to have the job, as most of the alternatives in the service / unskilled labor market pay less.

This isn't a big city area, but it's only about 90 minutes to the nearest one, and the cost of living here isn't outrageous but nor is it cheap. She's going to school, with zero assistance from her parents, and there's no way she could pull that off on just her regular job.

We started out at $$/ visit, but have since moved on to a less rigid arrangement. Earning about 3 x of a day at her regular job in exchange for 4-6 hours of naked fun is a good deal. Even if she weren't smitten with me and having the best sex of her life, those financials are quite compelling.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the input.

I do live in a large metro area in the Midwest. I remember 20 years ago my girlfriend worked for a popular restaurant, and she leave work with 150-200 dollars on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Now granted that 200 dollars went a long way back then when 1 bedroom rents with $700 dollar range and no one had cell phone.

Was drinking beer with a few golf cart girls last month as they finished their shift, and one of them mentioned about $180 dollar day!

I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2145099]I don't know if you guys have seen the website [URL]thedirty.com[/URL], but it makes a very good case for never letting your SBs know your last name, and being careful about who you give photos to.

There are other similar revenge websites but this one I had not come across this one before until I googled someone's name and an article about her on this site was at the top of the list. LOL. It's quite funny to look read the submissions in your local city (click on dirty world at the top). Be entertained by it but be careful not to end up being one of the sources of entertainment.

Always stay as anonymous as possible, and in the event of a dispute / SB gone sideways, try to diffuse the situation, take the high road and then get the hell out of there, trying to exit on a positive note.[/QUOTE]I actually just stumbled across that website the other day. Haven't had the time to browse it too much, but I did run across a few gals that I had heard of from the Charlotte area. Its a bit scary to think of all the damage someone could do to an individual simply because they got their panties in a wad over something.

[QUOTE=Latex;2145835]Thanks for the input.

I do live in a large metro area in the Midwest. I remember 20 years ago my girlfriend worked for a popular restaurant, and she leave work with 150-200 dollars on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Now granted that 200 dollars went a long way back then when 1 bedroom rents with $700 dollar range and no one had cell phone.

Was drinking beer with a few golf cart girls last month as they finished their shift, and one of them mentioned about $180 dollar day!

I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.[/QUOTE]Sure the girls want to maximize their ROI, but here is a little rationale. What makes more sense? $150 / night slinging drinks for 8 hours vs Lying on her back (or whatever) with a sex machine pounding her for an hour bringing her to multiple Os? No contest. Also, they frequently get treated to a nice dinner and drinks and get to squire a rich stud around in front of their buds. They get the $$ ,sexual satisfaction, and an ego boost without breaking a sweat. Well, maybe some sweating involved.

[QUOTE=DirtyDingus;2145994]I actually just stumbled across that website the other day. Haven't had the time to browse it too much, but I did run across a few gals that I had heard of from the Charlotte area. Its a bit scary to think of all the damage someone could do to an individual simply because they got their panties in a wad over something.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I think if the "victim" reports it to the admin of dirty.com they will take it down unless the author can prove it's true, but in theory once something is on the net, it can be archived and searchable forever. This past season one of my SBs said that they talk among themselves and "review" their SDs but she wouldn't say where. I did see on Nightline or one of those shows a story about a site that is strictly for females to bag on guys (forgot the site name) but it wasn't geared toward SDs, it was more designed to warn girls about serial daters and pricks from Facebook etc. But this aspect of our hobby does bother me.

[QUOTE=Latex;2145835]Thanks for the input.

Was drinking beer with a few golf cart girls last month as they finished their shift, and one of them mentioned about $180 dollar day!

I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.[/QUOTE]Sounds like my ex wife. She worked with other doctors, socialized at the country club and could not understand why a lot of people had a problem paying their hospital bills. My line of work gives me access to the day to day finances of a broad range of people, and your average 20 year old does not have many good paying jobs in the service industry available to them.

Yes, some, not all, of the women working the beer carts at the high end clubs near the beach are making a buck fifty a day "in season". But I have worked with hot looking chicks working lessor clubs that make 0 nly 50 a day in tips and that is only for 4-5 months a year. The bartenders at the local Bonefish Grill make 70 k a year, the hostess makes minimum wage, and the good waitresses are making just enough to afford a studio apartment if they scrimp. The bartender at my favorite local whole had to get a 2nd job because she only made 30 a year because the old guys are stingy tippers. For every 40 jobs at a busy high end restaurant their are 400 at Dennys, selling dresses at the surf shop, slinging coffee at starbucks, and those girls are VERY happy with an extra 100 tax free a week. All of my babes work a real job.

God Bless capitalism. It gives us a land of opportunity.

So my 5th of July special surprised me. She had been complaining for weeks about her husband pestering her for anal sex and she kept telling him no because it hurt. Guess who whips out the lube and says she wants my cum in her a#.

[QUOTE=FeelGoodMd;2140169]I just had this text conversation with an 18 year old, tall, white, sultry Pot I met through SA....

This morning, she texts back to say... she still wanted to get together today. We agree on a meeting place. Then the convo goes off the rails:

Pot: How much should I expect in return?

Me: I don't want to discuss that in advance. It seems so. Transactional.

Me: It's safe to assume I'll give you more after spending a couple hours together in private than I did after having coffee.

Pot: Well, my last arrangement we would do whatever we were both comfortable with for 500/ h. Anything more that he wants he pays significantly more for.

Me: That's not going to work for me. I'm sorry. My gift is typically (depending on how well the visit goes.

Pot: Those are literal hooker rates.

Me: (name). Sugar babies don't have "rates. " A sugar baby accept gifts from their Daddy....

Pot: I've come to expect gifts as very very generous.

Me: I hope you will take a serious look at whether you want to be a Sugar Baby or an escort. What you're doing right now sounds a lot more like the latter.

That was that. No reply from her after that (shockingly)....

Fortunately, I started seeing a new SB last week (on her 20th birthday) who is almost a carbon copy of that Pot (a little shorter, a couple years older, and light-skinned AA), and I texted her after that exchange and said I had a cancellation in my schedule and I am available this afternoon. She immediately replied with "when and where. " Last week she never asked about money in advance, was genuinely enthusiastic about the sex, seemed disappointed when she had to leave after 3 hours to get to a birthday party her sorority was throwing for her, and texted me multiple thank you's when she discovered how much I had given her ($ in an outside pocket of her purse, and. 5 in a be'day card so she knew they were "separate" gifts). Her only complaint, if you could call it that, was that I was too gentle and she wanted me to leave "marks" next time. Later that night she texted a picture of my card sitting in a prominent place on her dorm room desk (thankfully I have generic handwriting and I didn't sign it. Even with the fake name I gave her).

I have a feeling I am going to enjoy today much better with my new SB than I would have with that Pot.[/QUOTE]I'm happy to say I did have a FANTASTIC time with my new sorority girl SB last week, who likes to take it as rough as I like to give it out. We spent three hours together, and texted / emailed back and forth throughout the long weekend. We're planning to meet again at the end of the is week before she goes out of town.

The real follow-up, however, is a text I got this morning from the 18 year old who wanted $$ / hour. The conversation started like this (after not hearing from her for 6 days):

Pot: Sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. I would like a mutually beneficial relationship with you.

Me: Thank you for the text, K* I hadn't expected to hear from you again. I'd like the same thing.

Me: Can you accept the level of help I'm able to provide?

Pot: Yes. Would like to meet up again soon. Are you free today?

I had completely written her off, but now I'm going to be banging her in less than an hour and for only $. 5 Patience is the name of the sugar game.

[QUOTE=Latex;2145835]I am sure that I am completely out of touch these days with the trials and tribulations of 20 year olds. But if they are in college they usually get assistance from their parents and loans, is they supplement that with a part time job clearing $300 a week they can easily have party money.[/QUOTE]Yeah, well this adventure has been eye-opening for me as well. I really didn't appreciate just how hard it is to pull yourself out of poverty, even when you're doing all the right things. Her finances suck, and it's mostly her circumstances to blame. Which is why she's desperately trying to figure out how to put herself through college.

The scenario you describe is certainly a common demographic, but the key there is financial support from home. She has none, and that changes everything.

Like many here, I started all this spending my hard earned money with escorts many years ago. I was a sales rep that traveled the east coast and spent 1/2 my time on the road. Using escorts seemed at the time to be the easiest way to take care of my needs. Approximately 10 years ago, I sat back and took stock of what I was doing and how I was doing it. I realized I had spent a small fortune on many hot women (some not so hot as it turned out) one hour at a time. I just knew there was a better way. And with that I found Craigslist. At the time, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. You put up one ad and you would get 10 or more viable replies. Well, those days are gone for good. But anyway, to get to my point, what I realized after a while was I was using an escort approach to talk to a utr / sb. It took some time, but I got myself the skill set to interview them for the position, not the other way around. To all the newbies, you would be extremely surprised at how many of theses utr / sb's will accept 100 or 150 if that is what you are offering them. They all want 500 if they can get it. We have to be steadfast and not let them manipulate us.

I just got home from a M&G with a POT from SA. Cute 23 why / o redhead that lives in the next town over. Her profile said "moderate" on the donation. I have learned to take the chance and talk face to face with them anyway. So we get to the part of the conversation where the arrangement comes up. I told her that the last arrangement I had, which recently ended, I gave her 150 per visit, which would last 3 - 4 hours. She looked at me and then said "Ok, that works". Now, this is a girl who works part time at a deli 3 days per week. She has her own place so I don't need to spring for a SS. I look at that and say to myself that it's like I got her for 100 but I have to get a SS. So, tomorrow evening I will be at her apartment (the FC, I love that term) for what I think is a very reasonable donation. As stated below, many of these girls are in a financial bind. If they can actually think a little, this kind of money goes a long way for them. Yes, I too have had some turn me down. When they do, I remind them that my offer is better than sitting the next few months holding out for the higher donation. Most do not agree with me, but they are still on SA looking for a Daddy a year later. Their loss.

Also, talking with many of them, I find that there are a lot of guys who start off talking to them like they are shit. A young SB will think you are charming if you just be nice to them. Most guys their age cannot do that because they are self centered still. These girls are just craving to be treated special.

I hope this helps some of the newer guys. Be safe, and Happy Hobbying!

My preference is for a 22-23 year old hard body who is past the flighty stage but still as fresh as a woman gets; however in theory their seems to be a lot to recommend the 30 something. Supposedly they are at their sexual peak, you would think they are a little more reliable, maybe you can carry on a little deeper conversation, and some reports on here have attributed a little more financial stability to this breed, making them less likely to be GPS. With all that in mind I periodically cast a line at a 30 something that catches my eye. I am astounded by my lack of success. Two cases in point this week. I mentioned a M&G with a tattooed, biker mag cover quality MILF that I had lined up. We met for dinner and sat for 3 hours, laughed, had drinks, and really hit it off on a number of topics. She was a great kisser. Downside, the pics on her profile were obviously old-she is still beautiful, but about 15 pounds past her pics. I was willing to look past that, and we set a FC date for after the holiday weekend. A couple of days before, she brings up the subject of allowance. She had previously told me she was just looking for "a little help here and there". When we got into the details she informed me that her last SD used to give her "500 per visit-sometimes 1000". I told her that I was not in that ballpark, that I would be more comfortable with 2-3 per week, with at least two visits. Needless to say we wished each other well and I moved on. The second candidate was 31, recently divorced, with a good job, supposedly just looking for a no-strings relationship, brand new to the SB concept. Her pictures looked good, and she lived relatively close to me, so I quickly set up a M & G. When I arrived, I met a woman probably 30 lbs heavier than the one in the pics. We sat and chatted for a while, and she was pleasant to talk to. When I asked about her experiences on SA so far, she became a bit indignant about men offering her money for sex. She indicated that intimacy was on the table for someone after she "got to know them" but that "she was not a prostitute" and would never consider a paid arrangement. What are these "older and smarter" women thinking? From here on out I think I'll stick to the 20 something's.

The conventional wisdom in the thread is that dancers don't make good SB's (with maybe HG's girl as the exception). Too emotionally detached, used to manipulating guys for money, high likelihood of GPS. In the past couple of weeks I have been on a run of girls I met on SA who are or used to be dancers, The first was the tattoed 30 something in the prior post who bore out the GPS stereotype. The other two have turned out to be great finds. SB#2 for me is 25, used to be a dancer, works at a call center now and is a new single mom. I posted previously that we had a FC visit scheduled for last week with an agreement of $ per visit. I picked her up, took her to dinner, then brought her back to my place. She has an absolute smoking hard body, and was as hungry as I when we finally got BCD. Her looks are somewhat plain besides the body, and she is a bit self conscious. She is very attentive, good communications, is genuinely seeking my approval when she is with me and has already taken down her profile. Her only drawback is that her other responsibilities limit her availability to see me, so we are on a once a week. SB#3 is a dancer now and if she proves reliable will be my ATF. She is 25, very petite, and a self admitted dork. If I had met her somewhere else I never would have picked up the stripper vibe. We had texted a lot for a few days and finally set a time to meet. I picked her up and suggested a nice local restaurant. She countered with "not really hungry, why don't we go to your house, have a drink, and take a swim?" I asked if she had her swimsuit and she looked me in the eye and said she had forgotten it, so she would have to do without. Who am I to argue? We got back to my house and had a great conversation, including discussion of sugar, where I suggested $$ per week. She thought that was fair and said she wanted to meet three times or more per week. After a bit we moved first to the pool, where I helped her out of her tight jeans and into the warm water. Soon we were kissing and I was standing in the pool holding her with her legs wrapped around me. Before long we had to take it inside, where I had one of the best experiences that I have had in years. After I took her home she texted that she had had an amazing time and couldn't wait until Thursday for our next date. We agreed to at least try and get dinner next time!

Both of the latter girls have a couple of things in common. They both had absent fathers from a young age, so the older man element is obviously there. They both also seem very eager for approval / validation. Simply by being nice to them and complimenting them on basic things seems to make them bloom. I am looking forward to keeping them both around as long as I can, hopefully none of the stripper problem signs will show up!

I have on more M&G in the works for this week with a 25 year old who I also think might be a dancer. Her profile lists her occupation as "independent contractor". I hope that means dancer, and not escort! I can't wait to see which mold she will fit.

Life is good for me right now, I am going to enjoy it and save some memories for the lean times that are sure to come at some point.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2147331]My preference is for a 22-23 year old hard body who is past the flighty stage but still as fresh as a woman gets; however in theory their seems to be a lot to recommend the 30 something. Supposedly they are at their sexual peak, you would think they are a little more reliable, maybe you can carry on a little deeper conversation, and some reports on here have attributed a little more financial stability to this breed, making them less likely to be GPS. With all that in mind I periodically cast a line at a 30 something that catches my eye. I am astounded by my lack of success. Two cases in point this week. I mentioned a M&G with a tattooed, biker mag cover quality MILF that I had lined up. We met for dinner and sat for 3 hours, laughed, had drinks, and really hit it off on a number of topics. She was a great kisser. Downside, the pics on her profile were obviously old-she is still beautiful, but about 15 pounds past her pics. I was willing to look past that, and we set a FC date for after the holiday weekend. A couple of days before, she brings up the subject of allowance. She had previously told me she was just looking for "a little help here and there". When we got into the details she informed me that her last SD used to give her "500 per visit-sometimes 1000". I told her that I was not in that ballpark, that I would be more comfortable with 2-3 per week, with at least two visits. Needless to say we wished each other well and I moved on. The second candidate was 31, recently divorced, with a good job, supposedly just looking for a no-strings relationship, brand new to the SB concept. Her pictures looked good, and she lived relatively close to me, so I quickly set up a M & G. When I arrived, I met a woman probably 30 lbs heavier than the one in the pics. We sat and chatted for a while, and she was pleasant to talk to. When I asked about her experiences on SA so far, she became a bit indignant about men offering her money for sex. She indicated that intimacy was on the table for someone after she "got to know them" but that "she was not a prostitute" and would never consider a paid arrangement. What are these "older and smarter" women thinking? From here on out I think I'll stick to the 20 something's.[/QUOTE]I have found more success by not initiating the discussion of money. Try asking them what they are looking for. Sometimes they are a bit vague, not really saying they expect to be paid. "Maybe I can help you with a bill or two" is a line that works for me in opening that discussion. Seems to me that age doesn't really come into play so much with the feeling some have that if they get paid per date they are a working girl. Ultimately, they are whether it is a pay per date or monthly allowance, but some of them do not see it that way. Personally, I will never figure them out.

[QUOTE=FeelGoodMd;2146191]

Pot: Yes. Would like to meet up again soon. [b]Are you free today?[/b]

I had completely written her off, but now I'm going to be banging her in less than an hour and for only $. 5 Patience is the name of the sugar game.[/QUOTE]In my previous "Lost and Found" updates, I experienced a similar thing and one of the key factors was meeting up that "same day". Sometimes you can catch these girls in a moment of desperation / frustration and they'll be willing to meet for a lower amount as long as you're able to act quickly.

Long-term retention may still be an issue, but if you can quickly meetup and put some money in their pocket without any drama, then you might be able to pass Go quite a few times.

It's also why even though a Pot may piss me off by wasting my time, I always leave a key under the mat. It could be 2, 3, or 6 months later but you never know when they might popup out of nowhere asking to give them another chance. At the very least, you might get a good one-night stand out of it. I've had some great experiences that were just one and two-fers that were well worth not burning the bridge.

In the Sugar Bowl, often times nice guys (with cash) ultimately finish first in the end.