Escort Reports

Have someone noticed the 3 bbws in Leominster that are posting on stg and listcraw lately? Seems to be 3 different girls, 3 different numbers, but all 3 Chicago area code. Tried to hook with the one that goes by lexy, texted her about her rates and location, she asked me if I could go pick her up in Malden? What? I thought your ad stated Leominster and what you mean pick you up? You want a date and a ride? She told me " we got to go where the money is, are you coming or not? I declined, I really hate going to that area, lot of traffic and for me to drive more than a hour, it's got to be at list a decent looking girl. And she never told me the rates either, asked like 3 times and she dodged the question.

Just want to confirm what Fitz said. Saw Alicia twice over the summer and saw her last week for third time and had best session yet at old rates. I do agree that the new hr rate in ads is a bit high and she may be over reaching. However, if she can get guys to pay that rate and gross more money overall more power to her. Nice girl, great sense of humor and aims to please. I will repeat.

[URL]http://worcester.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/2-gorgeous-blondes-end-of-the/415203915767[/URL]

I saw her three or so weeks ago and she was talking about that. I told her that if she did implement those rates she would loose me as a client as I would not be able to afford her. I understand why she's doing it, at least for the tyist site, all the prices are rather steep. Some of the girls possible would be worth it but a most are not IMO. Leigh who I posted about last week is also advertising higher rates than what we mutually agreed prior to meeting. I have always had the opinion that raise cost won't necessarily increase income. Loosing one client going from 150 to 250 is a loss no matter how you look at it, she will have to see take (2) regular clients to make an extra 50 overall

[QUOTE=JDeller;4500397]Just want to confirm what Fitz said. Saw Alicia twice over the summer and saw her last week for third time and had best session yet at old rates. I do agree that the new hr rate in ads is a bit high and she may be over reaching. However, if she can get guys to pay that rate and gross more money overall more power to her. Nice girl, great sense of humor and aims to please. I will repeat.[/QUOTE]

Iman,

With all due respect and not to belabor the issue, I am not sure I understand your reasoning. If a provider loses a regular client at 150 due to hike in rates and gains another regular client at 250 she is up 100 each session. Nobody knows when a regular client will disappear or a new regular will appear. Providers will figure out pretty quickly if they have over reached due to a sharp decrease in "sales. " Same thing in any other business.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4500991]I saw her three or so weeks ago and she was talking about that. I told her that if she did implement those rates she would loose me as a client as I would not be able to afford her. I understand why she's doing it, at least for the tyist site, all the prices are rather steep. Some of the girls possible would be worth it but a most are not IMO. Leigh who I posted about last week is also advertising higher rates than what we mutually agreed prior to meeting. I have always had the opinion that raise cost won't necessarily increase income. Loosing one client going from 150 to 250 is a loss no matter how you look at it, she will have to see take (2) regular clients to make an extra 50 overall[/QUOTE]

I see her as daily what's Intel on her? Good or bad? Curious if anyone sees her. Pm me if you have details please.

[QUOTE=Trace2017;4501676]I see her as daily what's Intel on her? Good or bad? Curious if anyone sees her. Pm me if you have details please.[/QUOTE]All I've seen are bad reviews. Bad case of resting ***** face on this one.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4497565]1 - Kathy / Karen the "cat lady", older MILF type with FAKE boobies [URL]http://boston.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/pretty-loveable-exciting-young/549272464322[/URL].

2 - Kathy K603, older MILF, down to earth, love sex, really get into it. Sweet Lady. See post # 1687 for pics below.

3 - Kati, 30's MILF, younger, flat chested, I never not left satisfied, sweet girl [URL]http://boston.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/let-me-be-exactly-what-you-nee/553109703414[/URL].

These are the one I know of and have seen[/QUOTE]Agree entirely re #2. Def older and looks it, but so do I. She is thinner than those pics, but it is the same lady.

Hey Deller, no issue with respect, I'm always up for a discussion. If you increase cost what make you think you'll increase the amount of clients? Here is an example of increase in cost could lower revenue, this is based on a real life example, Let say membership at a golf course that has 1400 members and membership are $750.00, annual revenue $1,050,000 and there are just making the by, so the thought is to raise the member ship the following year by lets say $75.00 to $ 825.00 and due the price increase the membership goes to 1250 members, now your annual revenue $1,031,250 a lost of $ 19 K, so the following year the cost goes up $100 to $925.00 but you only get 1100 members, annul revenue $925,000. 00 another loss of $106 K. I know it is not quite the same business but it does demonstrates that increase cost does not necessarily guaranty increased income.

[QUOTE=JDeller;4501371]Iman,

With all due respect and not to belabor the issue, I am not sure I understand your reasoning. If a provider loses a regular client at 150 due to hike in rates and gains another regular client at 250 she is up 100 each session. Nobody knows when a regular client will disappear or a new regular will appear. Providers will figure out pretty quickly if they have over reached due to a sharp decrease in "sales. " Same thing in any other business.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4502495]Hey Deller, no issue with respect, I'm always up for a discussion. If you increase cost what make you think you'll increase the amount of clients? Here is an example of increase in cost could lower revenue, this is based on a real life example, Let say membership at a golf course that has 1400 members and membership are $750.00, annual revenue $1,050,000 and there are just making the by, so the thought is to raise the member ship the following year by lets say $75.00 to $ 825.00 and due the price increase the membership goes to 1250 members, now your annual revenue $1,031,250 a lost of $ 19 K, so the following year the cost goes up $100 to $925.00 but you only get 1100 members, annul revenue $925,000. 00 another loss of $106 K. I know it is not quite the same business but it does demonstrates that increase cost does not necessarily guaranty increased income.[/QUOTE]Sorry to butt in but I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. These girls are working human beings and not a golf course. They're a working class, not the investor class. As such, nobody wants to work more for less money vs work less for more money. If she has the option of fucking 5 guys for $500 vs 2 guys for $500, the latter will always be the smarter option. It's not just about money that increasing their rate will do but it's also about their personal care, leisure time and mental health. By increasing her rate, she maintains her quality service longer before she burns out. In the long term, she will actually make much more money if she is not forced to retire early due all the consequences of being a cheap provider.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4500991]I saw her three or so weeks ago and she was talking about that. I told her that if she did implement those rates she would loose me as a client as I would not be able to afford her. I understand why she's doing it, at least for the tyist site, all the prices are rather steep. Some of the girls possible would be worth it but a most are not IMO. Leigh who I posted about last week is also advertising higher rates than what we mutually agreed prior to meeting. I have always had the opinion that raise cost won't necessarily increase income. Loosing one client going from 150 to 250 is a loss no matter how you look at it, she will have to see take (2) regular clients to make an extra 50 overall[/QUOTE]So based on all the discussion I'm guessing she is not grandfathering in regulars to her original rates? I've reached out to her the past few days and haven't heard back from her.

I sort of agree with your analogy but I hope she doesn't price herself out of my market, I have limited fund and ponying up 2. 5 for hh is bit much.

[QUOTE=DigNickBigger;4502668]Sorry to butt in but I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. These girls are working human beings and not a golf course. They're a working class, not the investor class. As such, nobody wants to work more for less money vs work less for more money. If she has the option of fucking 5 guys for $500 vs 2 guys for $500, the latter will always be the smarter option. It's not just about money that increasing their rate will do but it's also about their personal care, leisure time and mental health. By increasing her rate, she maintains her quality service longer before she burns out. In the long term, she will actually make much more money if she is not forced to retire early due all the consequences of being a cheap provider.[/QUOTE]

So, I had / have signed up the above website as a non-paying member and find it oddly comical that I get thousand of women interested in meeting me ASAP, of course I cannot respond as I am a non paying member and I am sure that 95% of then be fake if I were to be able to respond. I get at least 7-8 emails a day from theses girls. LOL.

Its all a tease. The ladies initiate the conversation, you pay credits to respond, and then silence. Not worth the price.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4504060]So, I had / have signed up the above website as a non-paying member and find it oddly comical that I get thousand of women interested in meeting me ASAP, of course I cannot respond as I am a non paying member and I am sure that 95% of then be fake if I were to be able to respond. I get at least 7-8 emails a day from theses girls. LOL.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Longjblues;4504719]Its all a tease. The ladies initiate the conversation, you pay credits to respond, and then silence. Not worth the price.[/QUOTE]No, you must be wrong, I see those photos, and how can we not believe that the most beautiful woman in the world (all) live within 4 miles of our homes? They wouldn't intentionally try and scam us, would they? Like most of us, I have signed up, but never paid, and just don't see how the scam can continue to work for so long. I guess a "sucker is born every minute".

[QUOTE=DigNickBigger;4502668]Sorry to butt in but I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. These girls are working human beings and not a golf course. They're a working class, not the investor class. As such, nobody wants to work more for less money vs work less for more money. If she has the option of fucking 5 guys for $500 vs 2 guys for $500, the latter will always be the smarter option. It's not just about money that increasing their rate will do but it's also about their personal care, leisure time and mental health. By increasing her rate, she maintains her quality service longer before she burns out. In the long term, she will actually make much more money if she is not forced to retire early due all the consequences of being a cheap provider.[/QUOTE]I think you're both right, but it also depends on the lady herself, first of all. There are some providers who might have 5 regulars a week at a dirt-cheap rate, and if they up the requested donation by $10, all 5 will stop dropping by. On the other hand, there are some providers who could ask for 2. 5 for a half-hour visit and still have more clients than she wants or needs. So there is no question that Alicia is a top-notch provider in many respects, I think most fellas who see her would agree. Not to shill for her, but she offers a wardrobe of lingerie, and porn, and she's not too much of a clock-watcher (although the higher her donation, the more likely she is to become a clock-watcher, of course).

Another factor is the location: In downtown Boston Alicia would be able to develop more regular clients than in Fitchburg. Fitchburg is not surrounded by too many upper middle class towns and cities, so anyone who wants to see her during the day has to take a long lunch or take time off from his job.

The last factor is, how much extra "pin money" does she want to earn? If she's find asking for a 2. 5 donation and she sees just 4 or 5 clients a week, that might be more than enough for her needs and wants. It makes little sense (no disrespect intended to anybody) to talk about what makes economic sense for her without talking about her economic objectives.

All this said, 2. 5 is by any measure a huge sum for a provider based out of Fitchburg. Even though Alicia is easily in the top 5% of all providers who have ever been based out of the 'Burg, it's pretty clear that she's content these days to see, as a guesstimate, maybe 1 or 2 guys a day at most. If that. It might not be me and it might not be you, but someone who's spent time with her before is going to feel that her company and her skills are worth overpaying a little.

Just my 2 cents.

[QUOTE=DigNickBigger;4502668]Sorry to butt in but I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. These girls are working human beings and not a golf course. They're a working class, not the investor class. As such, nobody wants to work more for less money vs work less for more money. If she has the option of fucking 5 guys for $500 vs 2 guys for $500, the latter will always be the smarter option. It's not just about money that increasing their rate will do but it's also about their personal care, leisure time and mental health. By increasing her rate, she maintains her quality service longer before she burns out. In the long term, she will actually make much more money if she is not forced to retire early due all the consequences of being a cheap provider.[/QUOTE]Its human nature, we like to do less work for more money. I'm not her financial advisor and she's entitled to do as she pleases but for these high rates I would expect a much better venue for the event. I wouldn't consider her place a dump or in a bad neighborhood but its definitely not anywhere near upscale enough to command such a high price. Add in the fact that she doesn't offer CG, RCG or greek and her new rates become laughable. If she doesn't honor her original rates for existing customers then I'll move along.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4500991] Loosing one client going from 150 to 250 is a loss no matter how you look at it, she will have to see take (2) regular clients to make an extra 50 overall[/QUOTE]C'Mon. People. In this business if the girl is raising her rates and calls your bluff and flat out rejects the old rate, she IS getting her new rate; just not with you. If the new rate is out of your budget or just not worth it, then time to move on.

I remember seeing someone from the CL days who started off cheap (100-150 ish back in the day) and once they learned more about the business, became a high end type who traveled to different cities at $500/ hour type rates. I certainly had no expectations she would still see me at the old rate.

Lets all not overanalyze, it's pretty simple. If we pay the higher price, they can, and will charge whatever we are willing to pay. If they don't get clients paying the bigger money they won't charge it. Lets not price ourselves out of the hobby. JMHO.

Had a visit this noon with K603, had a great time, she was not just willing, but wanted to try a new sex position I had seen on a video (prone bone, wow, I didn't want to change after I got into it, enjoyed by us both) I am not going to say this is the guaranteed last chance, but, K603 is moving out on Thursday, and hasn't found a local apartment yet. So, she will be unavailable while she lives in NH with her brother. Will she be back? , who knows, hopefully an apartment will become available soon, and she can set up shop locally again. She does need cash for rent and deposits, so is looking for visits from regulars, and senior members here. For those who have seen her, no explanation is needed, but for those who haven't, she is slim, 50, enjoys sex, and has pictures a week or so ago on this forum.

[QUOTE=OrlLovr69;4508097]Lets all not overanalyze, it's pretty simple. If we pay the higher price, they can, and will charge whatever we are willing to pay. If they don't get clients paying the bigger money they won't charge it. Lets not price ourselves out of the hobby. JMHO.[/QUOTE]This has been debated here hundreds of times. It really isn't that simple.

[QUOTE=Spill;4508422]This has been debated here hundreds of times. It really isn't that simple.[/QUOTE]I agree, we can't have a blanket policy. However, we can all be cognizant of the difference between GPS and actual quality. If a woman is attractive, energetic, seems to have a pleasant personality, isn't blowing up your cell a week later, doesn't have track marks (at least not obviously) and enjoys and and is into the sex, well, they MIGHT be worth paying extra. The real issue is that in places like Maine, where there is little action, the mediocre can demand outrageous rates, if they look good. They can lack every other quality, but when we don't think with our big head, we are the ones getting screwed.

So, lets not overpay for average, that's a simple policy.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4504060]So, I had / have signed up the above website as a non-paying member and find it oddly comical that I get thousand of women interested in meeting me ASAP, of course I cannot respond as I am a non paying member and I am sure that 95% of then be fake if I were to be able to respond. I get at least 7-8 emails a day from theses girls. LOL.[/QUOTE]All responses are computer generated responses fake & automated.

[QUOTE=IammeIam;4508444]I agree, we can't have a blanket policy. However, we can all be cognizant of the difference between GPS and actual quality. If a woman is attractive, energetic, seems to have a pleasant personality, isn't blowing up your cell a week later, doesn't have track marks (at least not obviously) and enjoys and and is into the sex, well, they MIGHT be worth paying extra. The real issue is that in places like Maine, where there is little action, the mediocre can demand outrageous rates, if they look good. They can lack every other quality, but when we don't think with our big head, we are the ones getting screwed.

So, lets not overpay for average, that's a simple policy.[/QUOTE]But isn't everyone doing that anyway?

Read if you want. I got some spare time today before Pats kickoff.

I think a lot of great points have been shared on this topic, and a lot of truly asinine takes as well.

For the record, I am more of a 'reader' on this and other boards Been a 'hobbyist' about 25 years.

About 20 years ago, I went on an ice fishing trip with some dudes on Lake Champlain up on the VT / Canada border. It was well known there was a strip joint across the border where 'extras' were easily available on premises. So, throughout the night, as we threw around Loonies and Toonies, sucking down Labattts 50, all my knuckle dragging pals were bragging about how much they were able to chisel down the rates of their extras they got from the dancers in the lap dance alcoves. "Bro. I talked her down to 20 ! "Mine was 25. " etc. On the ride back to the motel, I got some serious razzing as they were all like: "Larry, you pussy, you didn't even score. ".

Fast forward to 6 AM wakeup call for fishing. The aforementioned knuckle draggers knocking at my motel room door. I answer, open the door and say: "I'll see you guys in a couple hours".

Why? (as the peeked in and saw 'Marie' in my bed).

Because instead of incessantly chewing down dancers all night, I focused in on one young lady, bought her some drinks, talked, got a few straight lap dances and then offered her $200 to come back to my room. Not only did she accept, but left the establishment early, brought 420 and a pizza!! Stayed the night, MSOG, GFE, and watched some TV. Had a nice breakfast at around 9 AM, then I headed out on the ice. (shitty fishing all weekend, air temp 4 degrees Fahrenheit, with 40-50 mph wind gusts).

Moral (s) of the story:

1) I never saw the value in negotiating down a provider's services. It just seems counterproductive. What kind of quality of service is one going to get if there is a negative negotiation before the services even begin.

2) That said, I have always had my best luck by over-paying (even slightly) for any services rendered.

3) Yeah, I could got blown in a broom closet for $35 Canadian, but I saw more overall value in throwing some cash around.

4) To each his own on the economics-if you are on a budget, you get budget service. In my story above, I was in my mid 20's and not making a ton of money, but I put some cash aside for the getaway, and played it how I did.

5) Since then, I've traveled the gamut in the hobby. CL, BP, EROS, even a Slixa or two, and now STG. I've dined with Kings & Queens. I've munched on franks & Beans.

Its all about your tastes, your resources, and the market economics.

Good luck with trying to 'control the pricing' with some sort of 'policy'.

Larryfine will continue to just kind 'roll with it'.

Go Pats.

LF.

Saw that the inked beautiful brunette that was all the rage a few months ago had an ad up late last night but unfortunately long gone is the ad now. Sigh. She is definitely on my bucket list as I didn't get to connect her last time around, along w lets have fun girl.

Stay safe gentlemen.

If I knew how to paste and copy I would.

Wondering if I could get some help from Fitchburg guys.

This girl advertises in Skip the games but is missing a # in her contact #.

Any help or PM would be appricitated.

Thanks.

This is her posting title (Local hottie is back and ready for a good night).

[QUOTE=Attwater;4513846]If I knew how to paste and copy I would.

Wondering if I could get some help from Fitchburg guys.

This girl advertises in Skip the games but is missing a # in her contact #.

Any help or PM would be appricitated.

Thanks.

This is her posting title (Local hottie is back and ready for a good night).[/QUOTE]Check her latest post, the full number is listed.

Here is a link to 10/29 ad which list tel number which is different than the number she shorted a digit on. 4'11,99 lbs. Nine78 two76933 five.

More recent ad shows the tel number missing the digit. 978-751-527?. Good luck. Look forward to review.

[URL]http://boston.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/local-hottie-is-back-and-ready/077330567431[/URL]

[QUOTE=Attwater;4513846]If I knew how to paste and copy I would.

Wondering if I could get some help from Fitchburg guys.

This girl advertises in Skip the games but is missing a # in her contact #.

Any help or PM would be appricitated.

Thanks.

This is her posting title (Local hottie is back and ready for a good night).[/QUOTE]

Wow!!

I saw her new boobs on STG. Too much in MHO.

Best.

Clit.

I should have known with the months of posts, with no reviews, but once again the wrong head did the thinking. I made arrangements to meet this girl for a CD. We stayed 60 for all the fun; I even said twice 60 for the full experience, and she agreed both times.

Girl offers to meet in front of her house for CD. You get in, she'll start with the CBJ then tell you, you only paid for a CBJ, and anything else is another 40. So I start the discussion about what we agreed on. Right about this time, a car pulls up to the spot she picked, and wouldn't you know it's her boyfriend. She starts with the whole "OMG, we need to go!" She jumps out of the car, and runs off.

You're all assuming she already had the cash in hand, and you'd be right. Learn from my ignorance / stupidity gents; avoid this one at all costs.

[URL]http://worcester.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/exotic/sexy-latina-guarbteed-to-put-a/989800071569[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrCrowley8493;4515802]I should have known with the months of posts, with no reviews, but once again the wrong head did the thinking. I made arrangements to meet this girl for a CD. We stayed 60 for all the fun; I even said twice 60 for the full experience, and she agreed both times.

Girl offers to meet in front of her house for CD. You get in, she'll start with the CBJ then tell you, you only paid for a CBJ, and anything else is another 40. So I start the discussion about what we agreed on. Right about this time, a car pulls up to the spot she picked, and wouldn't you know it's her boyfriend. She starts with the whole "OMG, we need to go!" She jumps out of the car, and runs off.

You're all assuming she already had the cash in hand, and you'd be right. Learn from my ignorance / stupidity gents; avoid this one at all costs.

[URL]http://worcester.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/exotic/sexy-latina-guarbteed-to-put-a/989800071569[/URL][/QUOTE]You saved me, I was about to do half hour incall, pretty much I would have been robbed. I appreciate the report.

[QUOTE=Monger5512;4516518]You saved me, I was about to do half hour incall, pretty much I would have been robbed. I appreciate the report.[/QUOTE]Cannot stress enough to avoid this girl. Her phone called me about 2 minutes after I left, and I got a voicemail; all I could hear in the background was her "boyfriend" talking, and let me tell you, he doesn't sound like the kind of guy to kindly ask you to leave. This dude sounds like a real peace of work, that would end your life for $60. Avoid this girl gents, flat out dangerous.

Although I said I wouldn't go back to K, I held out for a bit but unfortunately caved while traveling thru the area.

First time seeing (feeling) the new boobs. As discussed, a bit too much.

The kicker this time is the cats were on the bed so she asked that we move to the couch. Pretty standard K service. I usually only do the BBBJ with her. Couch not comfortable and took the walk of shame back to the car after.

Also got to hear the story of her new cat.

Until next time I guess!

[QUOTE=ClitfLicker;4515451]Wow!!

I saw her new boobs on STG. Too much in MHO.

Best.

Clit.[/QUOTE]Did she get them done again? I found the pictures she has posted 11/3 and I can't tell if this is the same size she was a year or two ago. They are looking crazy large but they were huge and hard about two years ago.

[QUOTE=MrCrowley8493;4518186]Cannot stress enough to avoid this girl. Her phone called me about 2 minutes after I left, and I got a voicemail; all I could hear in the background was her "boyfriend" talking, and let me tell you, he doesn't sound like the kind of guy to kindly ask you to leave. This dude sounds like a real peace of work, that would end your life for $60. Avoid this girl gents, flat out dangerous.[/QUOTE]Well I'm glad she went silent on me when I was trying to set up a meet and greet. Thanks for the update. Sucks been looking for something new. Seems it's all the same ones as of late and all of them pretty much bad reviews. Well I'm still looking if anyone has a decent tip on one I'd greatly appreciate it.

[QUOTE=FireMedic51;4519463]Did she get them done again? I found the pictures she has posted 11/3 and I can't tell if this is the same size she was a year or two ago. They are looking crazy large but they were huge and hard about two years ago.[/QUOTE]With the recent commenting I wondered also (did she get them done again). But they look the same as 2-3 years ago IMOA. But 2-3 years ago they also seemed like they were a little to hard (hard a rock) and were going to burst. Back then she was saying 'careful careful they're brand new', repeatedly saying I spent just $k on them.

[QUOTE=Iman2765;4500991]I saw her three or so weeks ago and she was talking about that. I told her that if she did implement those rates she would loose me as a client as I would not be able to afford her. I understand why she's doing it, at least for the tyist site, all the prices are rather steep. Some of the girls possible would be worth it but a most are not IMO. Leigh who I posted about last week is also advertising higher rates than what we mutually agreed prior to meeting. I have always had the opinion that raise cost won't necessarily increase income. Loosing one client going from 150 to 250 is a loss no matter how you look at it, she will have to see take (2) regular clients to make an extra 50 overall[/QUOTE]I have visited her a few times and have enjoyed my time with her. I wish her well but at these higher rates I am going to pass. Sometimes girls raise the rate after they build up their regulars, not necessarily to get a lot more money but to reduce traffic and see more of the clients they prefer. The jump from 150 to 250 is a big step though.

I have not been in a search mode for some time, but checked out locals, these 2 have been around for a bit, but don't have names, or any reviews, just ages 36 and 30. The first is the 30 yo. Any info anyone can share? I tried using pics, but the pictures are not linked to the actual posts

[QUOTE=IammeIam;4524615]I have not been in a search mode for some time, but checked out locals, these 2 have been around for a bit, but don't have names, or any reviews, just ages 36 and 30. The first is the 30 yo. Any info anyone can share? I tried using pics, but the pictures are not linked to the actual posts[/QUOTE]The first one has been reviewed and is legit. You'll have to scroll back a bit to find the reviews. Her rates are reasonable but she's starting to look a little worn down from drug use.

Avoid the second one at all costs.