"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4421880]15. You have to be dominant in communication, as in bed. Clarity is not their strength and unless you guide the conversation exactly and are clear in what you expect they will not get it most times. They need guidance, sometimes heavy guidance. But, 95% will follow along.[/QUOTE]I have found this not to be the case at all. Besides suggesting meeting at the FC I try to stay away from specific discussions of sex with the SB. I would never bring up BBFS before the meet, if I want it I play dumb and say I don't have condoms. Most won't mention it before and once they are at the FC they have $$$ signs in there eyes and want to get it done.

Keep in mind, if you are getting the true 18-22 yo gems they are ashamed to be hookers, and looking to engage in the fantasy that this is different. The difference between meeting an older dude at a hotel for $700 and meeting an older dude at at hotel for $700 with "BBFSCIP" negotiated before hand is huge in their mind. These girls are ******, but they act a lot sluttier when you let them believe they are different then a backpage hooker. I just took a 19 yo girls anal ch*rry in her dorm this week. Didn't mention anal or any other details before, but I brought lube and condoms. I only used the lube.

Also, unless you're paying stupid money they will spend the next few days leading up to your date looking for a better offer since they have already seen your cards.

[QUOTE=DrSummer;4421616]What I am going to share could be controversial, but I have had success with it, so I am going to go ahead. I noted that whenever I meet a girl in person first time, if she looked much better than her photos suggested, my confidence level and trust with her instantly goes way up. My inclination to close the deal goes way high. So, I decided to try that on girls. I always share my own photos (after I built some trust) with girls. So, I send few photos that are not the best angles, not best clothes (somewhat less attractive than actually I am). If she agrees to meet, I show up in my best shape, well dressed and the best possible attractive way. I can see their eyes lit up and they get comfortable with me very quickly. (In fact, few told me I looked much better in person than in photos). The conversation is much easier and no probing questions (compared to what I experienced before using the techniques). Nowadays, my rate of closing the deal is almost 100% (from my acceptance point of view) after I meet a girl in person. May be it is a coincidence I got better with more experience, but I have a good feeling the photo technique at least helped me in closing deals. I am not a psychologist or anyone, but there may be theory around this. Just wanted to share.

Play Safe.

Dr. S.[/QUOTE]Ironically, this is one of the reasons I do not send a picture at all. The shift in their demeanor always works to my advantage, also being younger than 95% of the site and being attractive helps immensely to getting the them over the hump with drastic discounts.

Any info on this one. [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/4cdc84a9-fcb6-4dd8-a89f-0a04b40e37c3[/URL].

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;4421933]Have you been around a college girl lately? They are always on there phones. Seeking shows them as active for an hour after their last activity. It's entirely reasonable for them to be "active" 90% of the time.[/QUOTE]I definitely see your point. I agree this could be the case.

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;4421948]I have found this not to be the case at all. Besides suggesting meeting at the FC I try to stay away from specific discussions of sex with the SB. I would never bring up BBFS before the meet, if I want it I play dumb and say I don't have condoms. Most won't mention it before and once they are at the FC they have $$$ signs in there eyes and want to get it done.

Keep in mind, if you are getting the true 18-22 yo gems they are ashamed to be hookers, and looking to engage in the fantasy that this is different. The difference between meeting an older dude at a hotel for $700 and meeting an older dude at at hotel for $700 with "BBFSCIP" negotiated before hand is huge in their mind. These girls are ******, but they act a lot sluttier when you let them believe they are different then a backpage hooker. I just took a 19 yo girls anal ch*rry in her dorm this week. Didn't mention anal or any other details before, but I brought lube and condoms. I only used the lube.

Also, unless you're paying stupid money they will spend the next few days leading up to your date looking for a better offer since they have already seen your cards.[/QUOTE]You made some huge assumptions, so your take on what I am doing is rather off. However, I understand how you might have gotten to your viewpoint.

1. None of my messages on SA or in text mentions BBFS or cip or anything like that. In fact, no specific activity is mentioned by me at all.

2. Additionally, none of messages or text mentions $ amounts for any sexual activities or any $ amounts at all.

3. To all SBs who asked about money, I state I do not discuss $ unless in person at a meet and greet. If I lose out on an SB for that, that is fine. So far though, 90% have continued planning to meet and greet even after I refuse to mention $ amount. At the meet and greet, I will then decide what to say about $. I have to see them in person first. We will see if the meet and greets happen.

4. None of these SBs are worth over 2 bills, so would never pay anything like you cite. I cannot get it up for even average babes. Even just moderately plump, forget about it. My wife was a former Ford model in New York. So you have an idea the look I go after. Followed after her Mom who was Ford model also. Wife still looks hot today, but she is still 54, not 20. Those were the days. She was free when I met her.

5. You are confusing dominant with forceful. Dominant means directing the conversation towards what one wants, even if stated in a very soft way. I wrote a book on rhetoric used by colleges and universities and the most dominant approach is also the most suave approach. That is because it directs the conversation towards your goals without even seeming to do that and it is the receiving party who thinks she reached the decisions on her own.

6. And rhetoric is the key. All the girls so far have gotten around to understanding that I want BBFS with cip and I never ever have brought up those terms or activities. They do!! There is nothing in my messages or texts that SA or anyone can say I asked for BBFS, cip, or that I linked $ to a sexual activity. Nothing at all.

7 While I agree that there are SB similarities, the country is regional and some things work culturally in some areas and not others. I recall being able to get BBFS in Florida much, much easier than in Wash DC during the craigslist days some 10 - 12 years ago. It was literally impossible to get in WY. At least for me. I mean from $100 - 200 hookers, not the $400+ ones that Miami Companions used to have. Never paid for those. In the region I am in now, moderate size towns surrounded by rural areas, I am trying to see what works here.

As stated below, it will be interesting to see if it works out and I get to bag a few babes. It is all just fun.

Must be something else for them to bring up wanting to have BBFS and CIP with you. 👏, though in your first message you say they agreed to. Which appears like you brought this up. Not trying to be argumentative but there is a disconnect in your post about that.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4422181]You made some huge assumptions, so your take on what I am doing is rather off. However, I understand how you might have gotten to your viewpoint.

1. None of my messages on SA or in text mentions BBFS or cip or anything like that. In fact, no specific activity is mentioned by me at all.

2. Additionally, none of messages or text mentions $ amounts for any sexual activities or any $ amounts at all.

3. To all SBs who asked about money, I state I do not discuss $ unless in person at a meet and greet. If I lose out on an SB for that, that is fine. So far though, 90% have continued planning to meet and greet even after I refuse to mention $ amount. At the meet and greet, I will then decide what to say about $. I have to see them in person first. We will see if the meet and greets happen.

4. None of these SBs are worth over 2 bills, so would never pay anything like you cite. I cannot get it up for even average babes. Even just moderately plump, forget about it. My wife was a former Ford model in New York. So you have an idea the look I go after. Followed after her Mom who was Ford model also. Wife still looks hot today, but she is still 54, not 20. Those were the days. She was free when I met her.

5. You are confusing dominant with forceful. Dominant means directing the conversation towards what one wants, even if stated in a very soft way. I wrote a book on rhetoric used by colleges and universities and the most dominant approach is also the most suave approach. That is because it directs the conversation towards your goals without even seeming to do that and it is the receiving party who thinks she reached the decisions on her own.

6. And rhetoric is the key. All the girls so far have gotten around to understanding that I want BBFS with cip and I never ever have brought up those terms or activities. They do!! There is nothing in my messages or texts that SA or anyone can say I asked for BBFS, cip, or that I linked $ to a sexual activity. Nothing at all.

7 While I agree that there are SB similarities, the country is regional and some things work culturally in some areas and not others. I recall being able to get BBFS in Florida much, much easier than in Wash DC during the craigslist days some 10 - 12 years ago. It was literally impossible to get in WY. At least for me. I mean from $100 - 200 hookers, not the $400+ ones that Miami Companions used to have. Never paid for those. In the region I am in now, moderate size towns surrounded by rural areas, I am trying to see what works here.

As stated below, it will be interesting to see if it works out and I get to bag a few babes. It is all just fun.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=BStreet;4422227]Must be something else for them to bring up wanting to have BBFS and CIP with you. 👏, though in your first message you say they agreed to. Which appears like you brought this up. Not trying to be argumentative but there is a disconnect in your post about that.

.[/QUOTE]Ya that was what I read. But good luck? Let us know if you get any of these gals in bed...

[QUOTE=BStreet;4422227]Must be something else for them to bring up wanting to have BBFS and CIP with you. 👏, though in your first message you say they agreed to. Which appears like you brought this up. Not trying to be argumentative but there is a disconnect in your post about that.

.[/QUOTE]Have you guys not taken rhetoric in school? People agree to things very easily and all the time without the other party bringing it up specifically. In fact, 90%+ of all decisions and agreements made by humans are actually implied situational decisions and agreements. This is why the college / university Title IX tribunal sex stuff is such a mess. Men and women do not agree to specific actions; they agree to an accepted environment and act within that environment, which include a range of actions.

SBs are no different; the mistake people make is that they do not set the environment for the decision-taking process for the actions they want to take place. There are tons of negotiating books that show how to set the table for a specific outcome in a business meeting before the meeting even takes place. Where college guys go wrong is that there is no discussion of the expected environment at all. However, a discussion with the girl being the one to suggest certain activities is what guys should be setting up. That is the approach I take.

Please note that I said they bring up BBFS specifically?? This means, the environment of the conversation made it something they thought of. It is not that hard to do. And when they bring it up, all I need to say it that sounds good, but we will see how we connect first. Notice, I did not even return the favor of mentioning the activity or fully agreeing to it. However, 1) it makes it clear that could really happen and 2) it makes it so it will happen if I do not object later on.

We just have different approaches. The last thing I need is a girl saying I did not use a cover when she thought I would or that I never got her permission. If it is on record she was the one who mentioned BBFS and was trying to see if I was fine with it, then at least I have a defense.

There are more than one way to skin a cat. My approach has worked for me to get BBFS for decades without the girl not expecting it. I cannot remember a time a girl asked me if I brought cover. She had already decided before I got there.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4422301]Have you [/QUOTE]Have you banged these hoes yet? If not, go forth and conquer. Report back after laying pipe. We expect a numbered list, too.

[QUOTE=Grafenberg;4422307]Have you banged these hoes yet? If not, go forth and conquer. Report back after laying pipe. We expect a numbered list, too.[/QUOTE]I have been on here all of 100 hours. I am just reporting what I am doing to try and start things off. I plan to be on SA for a month or two. Hopefully get enough contacts and find a 3 or 4 solid SBs for the school year. I will be fine with that. I am thinking I am doing something partially right because enough girls are "wasting" their time talking to me and setting up stuff. If other stuff were better, they would have blown me off already. For many of them, I can tell by their speech patterns that not much is going on that they want, even if they have other prospects they are talking to. Trying to fill that gap. I will see if I can convert a few. May so, maybe not. For 90/ mo worth a shot though.

Tons of advice and strategies in these pages. Some have merit, depending on the experience you're seeking and the amount of time and money you're willing to invest.

I've had contact with dozens of potentials and m / g with about a dozen. Closed the deal with most. Never been banned, thankfully, so not sure where that comes from, but I never. Never. Discuss specifics in writing. Move the conversation off the SA site as quickly as possible, steer the conversation towards the m / g, then gauge her responses. Eager and / or direct gives me the pro hooker vibe and that doesn't interest me. I'm in my 60's so I target girls who have 60 in their profiles. Not going to spend a lot of time trying to convince a girl to go outside her range of interest. Too many others to choose from.

Coffee or drinks based on the age gets you to the FC. Make the FC a pleasant, upscale experience. Invest in a three-star room, minimum. Direct the experience gently in the direction you have in mind but go with the flow. Follow up afterwards with a text message praising the effort. Repeat and often the allowance expectation is lowered or falls away altogether.

I really like the idea of starting with a forgettable photo so she is pleasantly surprised at the m / g. I'll have to give that one a try.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4422327]I have been on here all of 100 hours. I am just reporting what I am doing to try and start things off. I plan to be on SA for a month or two. Hopefully get enough contacts and find a 3 or 4 solid SBs for the school year. I will be fine with that. I am thinking I am doing something partially right because enough girls are "wasting" their time talking to me and setting up stuff. If other stuff were better, they would have blown me off already. For many of them, I can tell by their speech patterns that not much is going on that they want, even if they have other prospects they are talking to. Trying to fill that gap. I will see if I can convert a few. May so, maybe not. For 90/ mo worth a shot though.[/QUOTE]

"RottentotheCore" is a scammer. She made me believe she was a 45 year old woman in Midlothian and then she asked me if I liked Pre-op TransSexuals after wasting a week texting with her!!

This is why I HATE texting back and forth before meeting! If they're not stable and normal enough to meet me at a Starbucks around the corner, I want nothing to do with them.

So a friend's coworker recently joined and as a newbie of course was immediately scammed and fell for the "I need money for groceries for my babies" or some such BS, then she ghosted and blocked him. He reported her on the site and nothing happened of course as SA has started to completely ignore that, which is probably why there is so much of it going on. The next day when he got on SA it popped up with the "Do You Like Seeking?" prompt. He clicked no and when it asked why tell them there were too many fake profiles. He actually got an e-mail from their customer support with a hollow apology and telling him to "Use the official reporting system to report fake profiles". He replied telling them he had reported the chick who scammed him and they hadn't done anything about it. They asked for evidence and he sent screen shots of their txts. Surprisingly enough they actually removed her profile after that. Well she created a new one almost immediately so instead of reporting her through the app he replied to the e-mail with her new profile. He did and damn if they didn't delete it again. She has created a total of 7 profiles that I'm aware of now and he's gotten all 7 removed.

So when someone asks for money in advance, or to buy pics or videos, instead of reporting them on the site, email the address below. They probably have an internal rule that emails must be returned, unlike the reporting system which they clearly ignore. If enough are reported, perhaps they'll start enforcing their own rules again.

[EMAIL]seekingarrangement@datesupporter.com[/EMAIL]

[QUOTE=TomDickNHarry;4424113]So a friend's coworker recently joined and as a newbie of course was immediately scammed and fell for the "I need money for groceries for my babies" or some such BS, then she ghosted and blocked him. He reported her on the site and nothing happened of course as SA has started to completely ignore that, which is probably why there is so much of it going on. The next day when he got on SA it popped up with the "Do You Like Seeking?" prompt. He clicked no and when it asked why tell them there were too many fake profiles. He actually got an e-mail from their customer support with a hollow apology and telling him to "Use the official reporting system to report fake profiles". He replied telling them he had reported the chick who scammed him and they hadn't done anything about it. They asked for evidence and he sent screen shots of their txts. Surprisingly enough they actually removed her profile after that. Well she created a new one almost immediately so instead of reporting her through the app he replied to the e-mail with her new profile. He did and damn if they didn't delete it again. She has created a total of 7 profiles that I'm aware of now and he's gotten all 7 removed.

So when someone asks for money in advance, or to buy pics or videos, instead of reporting them on the site, email the address below. They probably have an internal rule that emails must be returned, unlike the reporting system which they clearly ignore. If enough are reported, perhaps they'll start enforcing their own rules again.

[EMAIL]seekingarrangement@datesupporter.com[/EMAIL][/QUOTE]Your friend's coworker got scammed for some cash (rookie mistake), then clicked on a pop-up ad? Why would anyone click a pop-up ad? Then responded to a "customer support" email sent not from [URL]seeking.com[/URL] but from a 3rd party "[URL]datesupporter.com[/URL]"? Oh boy. When he made his complaint, was he asked to provide an email so they could "verify" him? I have a bad feeling about this.

[QUOTE=Tidad;4425168]Your friend's coworker got scammed for some cash (rookie mistake), then clicked on a pop-up ad? Why would anyone click a pop-up ad? Then responded to a "customer support" email sent not from [URL]seeking.com[/URL] but from a 3rd party "[URL]datesupporter.com[/URL]"? Oh boy. When he made his complaint, was he asked to provide an email so they could "verify" him? I have a bad feeling about this.[/QUOTE]I can verify that [URL]DateSupporter.com[/URL] is the domain Seeking uses for customer support for WYP and Seeking.

Seeking's customer service responds with an email address from that domain, as does customer service from WYP.

[QUOTE=Tidad;4425168]Your friend's coworker got scammed for some cash (rookie mistake), then clicked on a pop-up ad? Why would anyone click a pop-up ad? Then responded to a "customer support" email sent not from [URL]seeking.com[/URL] but from a 3rd party "[URL]datesupporter.com[/URL]"? Oh boy. When he made his complaint, was he asked to provide an email so they could "verify" him? I have a bad feeling about this.[/QUOTE]Normally, I would say you are 100% correct, but apparently, according to WHOIS, [URL]datesupporter.com[/URL] is registered to [URL]AskBrandonWade.com[/URL], so apprently it's tied to SA.

Business insider article. Even mentions pump and dum. Although it could just be a promo for Seeking written by their staff.

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/sugar-baby-relationship-sugar-daddy-what-its-like-2019-8[/URL]

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4425501]Business insider article. Even mentions pump and dum. Although it could just be a promo for Seeking written by their staff.

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/sugar-baby-relationship-sugar-daddy-what-its-like-2019-8[/URL][/QUOTE]That article seems less like an ad for Seeking than most.

What is interesting to me is how common the sugaring language is becoming. Within a few years, I think sugaring will be mainstream.

[QUOTE=Tidad;4425168]Your friend's coworker got scammed for some cash (rookie mistake), then clicked on a pop-up ad? Why would anyone click a pop-up ad? Then responded to a "customer support" email sent not from [URL]seeking.com[/URL] but from a 3rd party "[URL]datesupporter.com[/URL]"? Oh boy. When he made his complaint, was he asked to provide an email so they could "verify" him? I have a bad feeling about this.[/QUOTE]Point wasn't to elicit sympathy for him, my first reaction when my friend told me what happened to him was how could anyone be stupid enough to send money online to a perfect stranger. Honestly it annoyed me because the only reason theres so much of that garbage on there right now is because some guys are incredibly falling for it.

But as I said, using that email and reporting her with a link everytime she creates a profile, he has gotten her deleted 7 times now, unlike the "Report" tool on the site / app which never results in the profile getting deleted. Don't use the email address if you don't want to, but it's legit and if we all start reporting the scams to customer service and inundating them with emails they may be more interested in cleaning things up. And if you're using an anon email account for SA (which surely everyone on here is) there can't be any harm in sending an email with a link to a profile and reporting them for online only or asking for money online in advance or the like. It looks like they respond to every email sent to this address.

[EMAIL]seekingarrangement@datesupporter.com[/EMAIL]

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4425501]Business insider article. Even mentions pump and dum. Although it could just be a promo for Seeking written by their staff.

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/sugar-baby-relationship-sugar-daddy-what-its-like-2019-8[/URL][/QUOTE]I thought it was pretty balanced and she's probably legit. I'm sure as all females who talk about it, she's embellishing to make herself seem less like a *****, probably true on her allowance, and I guarantee you she's embellishing the other stuff. She might have had a guy or two take her on a trip spoil the hell out of her, but I guarantee the majority of them were a M&G over a coffee, followed by her spreading her legs a few days later in a short stay for nothing but a cash donation, many of which weren't 500.

Other than that, which will set unrealistic expectations for many girls in certain cities and make it hard for them to find anything, she gives some decent advice.

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;4416129]Blonde 18 yo 2001 baby. Amazing lay, loves to be dominated. Let me choke, slap, spit on, and generally destroy her. BBFS, CIP, agreed to anal but backed out when she saw my size so YMMV. One of my all time faves.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/75537418-066c-4b7a-80e0-9461a358f6a4[/URL][/QUOTE]Anyone else seen her? She doesn't seem DTF in my messages with her.

If you're married and cannot use your own place, it really limits you. It's the very rare girl under 25 that has her own place -- although I have met a couple who had roommates that were willing to go into their own rooms and keep the door shut, LOL. And hotels of course have their own expenses and hassles.

So I have thought from time to time about looking for a cheap furnished apartment that I could use for entertaining. In my city, there are places that you can get at maybe $600/ month, so amortized over maybe 8 visits / month, not a bad cost. Looking for advice or suggestions from anyone who may have tried this. Worried about the usual things relating to anonymity, signing a lease, paying by check or credit card, repairs, insurance whatever.

Just curious if anyone has done this and how it worked out. As always, appreciate everyone'e help.

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[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=Truncated;4416573]If you're going to use WhatsApp, or similar, I suggest getting a burner and only using it with cell data to access the internet, and never connecting to WiFi with it.

Download WhatsApp on that phone, and never log onto it on any other device.

Use that burner for all your SA-related activities, and nothing else.

Pay cash for the burner and for the monthly refill cards. Don't register the burner with the cell carrier beyond the minimum they require to set up the device.[/QUOTE]That is some good advice!

In addition, I'd suggest NEVER turning on the location / GPS feature of the burner phone! I had a burner once and had that location stuff on. Then one day a baby told me about Mr. Number, so I check it for that burner number and Viola! Up pooped my real name & address. Best I can tell, a phone sitting at an address overnight, many nights, can be located via GPS and then connected to property records or whatever. So now I do not turn on the location on the burner and never use the WiFi my home modem has to connect to the burner.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/36584c21-9d96-43a4-bc6b-742ee251f0aa[/URL]

I had a M&G with this girl, We met at a restaurant within walking distance of VSU in Petersburg and had a nice talk. She is real. Very smart for her age, with good ambition, I think she'd make a great SB and is my type (slender, dark-skinned). Wanted dates in public. By text we had discussed 400 ppv initially with it possibly dropping, but I figured I'd talk to her in person and negotiate. Still, she might be worth the 400.

Unfortunately she seems a little naive about the sexual component of being an SB. When I asked her about her experiences on SA, she said it was a bunch of creeps trying to engage in prostitution. I asked if she ever had an SD and she said yes, once, but she quit after he started asking for sex. Not a good sign! At the end of our visit she revealed that she had expected 400 for the M&G! I felt a little sorry for her and gave her 40 and explained how a M&G is an interview.

Maybe she hustled me? I doubt it, I think she's just a naive 18 year old who needs money. Later I texted her that for 400 intimacy was expected. I thought of offering to date her platonically for awhile but I no longer have the patience for that approach. Maybe those of you who are good at converting platonic can try. She has ghosted me.

[QUOTE=Snake27;4428177][URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/36584c21-9d96-43a4-bc6b-742ee251f0aa[/URL]

I had a M&G with this girl, We met at a restaurant within walking distance of VSU in Petersburg and had a nice talk. She is real. Very smart for her age, with good ambition, I think she'd make a great SB and is my type (slender, dark-skinned). Wanted dates in public. By text we had discussed 400 ppv initially with it possibly dropping, but I figured I'd talk to her in person and negotiate. Still, she might be worth the 400.

Unfortunately she seems a little naive about the sexual component of being an SB. When I asked her about her experiences on SA, she said it was a bunch of creeps trying to engage in prostitution. I asked if she ever had an SD and she said yes, once, but she quit after he started asking for sex. Not a good sign! At the end of our visit she revealed that she had expected 400 for the M&G! I felt a little sorry for her and gave her 40 and explained how a M&G is an interview.

Maybe she hustled me? I doubt it, I think she's just a naive 18 year old who needs money. Later I texted her that for 400 intimacy was expected. I thought of offering to date her platonically for awhile but I no longer have the patience for that approach. Maybe those of you who are good at converting platonic can try. She has ghosted me.[/QUOTE]She's been on Seeking since January. She knows darn well that: A) sex is expected by SDs, B) No one is giving her $400 PPM.

She's lucky to have gotten the $40.

My bet is that she tried to rinse you.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/3f3d7df8-5f63-440b-b15f-26f537c13cc2[/URL]

Anybody got background on her? Seems like a sweet girl in recovery. Given her admitted past I'm thinking she's already been a sex worker. 🤷127995;8205;9794;65039; Says she is living with relatives so can't host.

[QUOTE=Truncated;4428191]She's been on Seeking since January. She knows darn well that: A) sex is expected by SDs, B) No one is giving her $400 PPM.

She's lucky to have gotten the $40.

My bet is that she tried to rinse you.[/QUOTE]I second that. Last year myself and my buddy within a week had one that tried that on us. The same girl. So obviously she knew the deal and was trying to get money. I showed her our text exchange about m&g before any money and she said "Oh". Then she got in her car and drove away to never be heard from again.

Plenty of broke babies looking for textbook money now to even think about wasting time on platonic chicks.

[QUOTE=Truncated;4428191]She's been on Seeking since January. She knows darn well that: A) sex is expected by SDs, B) No one is giving her $400 PPM.

She's lucky to have gotten the $40.

My bet is that she tried to rinse you.[/QUOTE]I don't find any part of her story credible. No one gave her hundreds for dinner, and if that's what she's looking for, the profile is deliberately misleading. It says "open to pretty much anything" and mentions nothing about platonic or social dates. She picked two tags but neither of them were the platonic tag staring her right in the face when she made the profile. And given that there's quite literally zero chance in her 8 months on the site that you're the first guy who told her intimacy was typical and expected for large donations like that she could have edited her profile at anytime to say what she was really looking for, but didn't. Even if you incredibly were the first guy to explain this to her she still hasn't edited her profile, which means she's intentionally inviting people seeking legit arrangements to message her.

I wouldn't have given her even the 40, unless I was worried about bumping into her down the road and her causing a scene or something. She sounds like a very effective rinser and while she could've possibly gotten more out of it, getting the 40 and a meal is still not a bad outcome for her. Thankfully no big loss for you. As an aside about being taken, I had a M&G years ago where I had absolutely no interest in her after meeting but made the mistake of staying and letting her have several drinks. Well, she was DTF that night and expecting a donation (this was not agreed or discussed prior to the M&G at all) and in her drunk state started to cause a serious scene in a restaurant near my home and work. I ended up having to give her what cash I had left on me after buying her all those drinks (thankfully less than 100) just to calm her down and get the hell out of there.

[QUOTE=BlueEyedMan58;4426104]If you're married and cannot use your own place, it really limits you. It's the very rare girl under 25 that has her own place -- although I have met a couple who had roommates that were willing to go into their own rooms and keep the door shut, LOL. And hotels of course have their own expenses and hassles.

So I have thought from time to time about looking for a cheap furnished apartment that I could use for entertaining. In my city, there are places that you can get at maybe $600/ month, so amortized over maybe 8 visits / month, not a bad cost. Looking for advice or suggestions from anyone who may have tried this. Worried about the usual things relating to anonymity, signing a lease, paying by check or credit card, repairs, insurance whatever.

Just curious if anyone has done this and how it worked out. As always, appreciate everyone'e help.[/QUOTE]I wrote a lengthy reply to this, but it seems to have gotten lost.

In short.

I rent an apartment for sugaring. It's cost-effective and less stressful than a hotel.

I'm not married, so I don't worry about being found out. But, if you are worried about that, an apartment is still probably less risky than dozens of hotel room receipts and charges over a year.

Keep in mind you will need to clean the place, or hire someone to do it. I clean my own because it's a pain to find someone to do it.

Got to stock toilet paper, kitchen supplies, etc. It takes planning.

Keep in mind that the apt neighbors will be nosy. They always ask questions about me, and seem to gossip about that guy who is only there once in a while. And always with women.

Keep in mind that you might run into someone you know at the apt complex. Have a story ready.

All legit apartment complexes require renters insurance. Most offer a quick application policy from their preferred insurer. Mine is $100/ year.

Don't bother with cable or internet. Just get a TV and an Amazon Fire stick, then tether it to your phone's hotspot.

I pay about $25/ month for electric.

Keep in mind you will need to wash sheets and towels. My apt has a W / D in it, which makes that easier.

Keep the electric bill paperless. I have never received a single piece of mail at the apt in my name. I attribute that to keeping utilities and other stuff to a minimum.

All things considered, a sugar apartment was the only option for me. I spend about $1200/ month on it in all, but the peace of mind is worth it.

The $40 was a gamble. I do want her, and sometimes they come back with reasonable expectations. It happened to me once 3 weeks after a failed M&G. But yes, I can see your points, and that of TomDNH. She's been on the site, should know the deal, and her profile is misleading, I agree. In person, judging her body language and spontaneous responses, she seemed more like a confused 18 yo than a slick scammer.

[QUOTE=Truncated;4428191]She's been on Seeking since January. She knows darn well that: A) sex is expected by SDs, B) No one is giving her $400 PPM.

She's lucky to have gotten the $40.

My bet is that she tried to rinse you.[/QUOTE]

The fact that she joined in January is not always a sign that the sb is experienced with the site. I run into plenty of POT's that join, get a flood of cringey DM's and then leave. Later, they reconsider and decide to return. Sometimes a year or more can elapse between when they signed up and when they return. I find these women respond well to a 'gentle' approach and are a bit more willing. I trust the judgement of the guy who was on the scene.

Bam.

[QUOTE=Snake27;4428732]The $40 was a gamble. I do want her, and sometimes they come back with reasonable expectations. It happened to me once 3 weeks after a failed M&G. But yes, I can see your points, and that of TomDNH. She's been on the site, should know the deal, and her profile is misleading, I agree. In person, judging her body language and spontaneous responses, she seemed more like a confused 18 yo than a slick scammer.[/QUOTE]

Good insight! Yes, I remember meeting a 19 yo in June who was fresh on the site. At the M&G she told me that according to her research she could get $2000 per month for platonic. What kind of research is that? But she said it with a straight face in all sincerity. She told me she had met one other guy before me, and he had tried to get her to go immediately to a hotel. We discussed doing $200 ppv starting platonic and eventually having sex, she was agreeable to that, but it seemed like an uncertain deal to me, so I politely declined the next day. I had done the same thing a year ago and the girl never made the transition to sex. Others have reported success at this, however. I forget this girl's handle, but she dropped from the site after a week, which is fairly typical. By my observation, about 90% of the new girls quit after a week or two, another 5% are on the site regularly for months or even years (these are your professional SBs) and the remaining 5% are somewhere in between. Anyway, I'm patient because I like long-term and the right situation. Some of the months I've joined I ended up with nothing.

[QUOTE=BamBam;4428843]The fact that she joined in January is not always a sign that the sb is experienced with the site. I run into plenty of POT's that join, get a flood of cringey DM's and then leave. Later, they reconsider and decide to return. Sometimes a year or more can elapse between when they signed up and when they return. I find these women respond well to a 'gentle' approach and are a bit more willing. I trust the judgement of the guy who was on the scene.

Bam.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Truncated;4428439]I wrote a lengthy reply to this, but it seems to have gotten lost.

In short.

I rent an apartment for sugaring. It's cost-effective and less stressful than a hotel.

I'm not married, so I don't worry about being found out. But, if you are worried about that, an apartment is still probably less risky than dozens of hotel room receipts and charges over a year.

Keep in mind you will need to clean the place, or hire someone to do it. I clean my own because it's a pain to find someone to do it.

Got to stock toilet paper, kitchen supplies, etc. It takes planning.

Keep in mind that the apt neighbors will be nosy. They always ask questions about me, and seem to gossip about that guy who is only there once in a while. And always with women.

Keep in mind that you might run into someone you know at the apt complex. Have a story ready.

All legit apartment complexes require renters insurance. Most offer a quick application policy from their preferred insurer. Mine is $100/ year.

Don't bother with cable or internet. Just get a TV and an Amazon Fire stick, then tether it to your phone's hotspot.

I pay about $25/ month for electric.

Keep in mind you will need to wash sheets and towels. My apt has a W / D in it, which makes that easier.

Keep the electric bill paperless. I have never received a single piece of mail at the apt in my name. I attribute that to keeping utilities and other stuff to a minimum.

All things considered, a sugar apartment was the only option for me. I spend about $1200/ month on it in all, but the peace of mind is worth it.[/QUOTE]Thanks, very helpful. Lots of stuff I had not thought of, like utilities. Not sure if I can jump through all the hoops and be comfortable. The best was when I had an exclusive with a 26 year old who actually found a place, signed the lease, and handled all the details, and I just reimbursed / advanced her the $$. She used the place for a (legit) business and just a place to relax away from her family, so it was a win-win while it lasted.

So I found this chick on AM up in my area (Wilm, DE). Her location at that time was the same as mine. She was kind of on-off in communications and then went silent for a while. When she re-emerged she stated that she was now in the Richmond area and had been up my way for work. She was willing to fly up to see me however, since driving was too long as was the train. But reassured me she would come. We spend a lot of time texting during which she asked a lot of questions and answered only a few herself.

Anyway, I finally found her profile (since it moved geographically) and it now stated Ashburn, VA which certainly is not Richmond, more like DC. But that probably put her an hour closer. She sent a couple of pics in addition to the profile pic on the site. I checked them with GI and got no hits. The one looks professionally done to me. Anyway, after texting miles of text for many days, I asked about talking on the phone to gauge chemistry and make plans. Then I got the reply that her phone was broken and she needed to get a new one in order to be able to talk. Yeah, right. (or fishing for some upfront $?) At one point I was asking her what she desired as far a a meeting was concerned and she swore up one side & down another that she wasn't a prostitute and didn't need money. But at some point she wanted "help" with the plane ticket. LOL! I might have done that if it wasn't cash up front.

Anyway, having invested way too much time I could see this wasn't going anywhere, so I asked her to put up or shut-up and she bid me adieu!

This girl look familiar to anyone? Is she a known scammer or a SB? Or just some chick who doesn't get the game?

[QUOTE=Snake27;4429093]Good insight! Yes, I remember meeting a 19 yo in June who was fresh on the site. At the M&G she told me that according to her research she could get $2000 per month for platonic. What kind of research is that? But she said it with a straight face in all sincerity.[/QUOTE]I've been fortunate enough to have always preempted this kind of problem before it gets to the M&G. Whenever I run into conversation like that, I just say:

"I don't doubt some guys are that desperate, but think about what kind of loser he would have to be if he has to pay thousands of dollars just to find someone willing to talk to him? Do you even want to be seen in public with a guy like that? Wouldn't you rather have an SD you're attracted to? If you like what you see in my pics, we should meet. If not, we shouldn't even be chatting at this point."

[QUOTE=BamBam;4428843]The fact that she joined in January is not always a sign that the sb is experienced with the site. I run into plenty of POT's that join, get a flood of cringey DM's and then leave. Later, they reconsider and decide to return. Sometimes a year or more can elapse between when they signed up and when they return. I find these women respond well to a 'gentle' approach and are a bit more willing. I trust the judgement of the guy who was on the scene.

Bam.[/QUOTE]I've encountered that too where the profile lies dormant or even they deactivate it, then comes on and so the join date is not representative of their experience. But I'm sure like me you've probably gone through their SA messages with some of your girls (most really think it's funny to do this if you suggest it), and almost every message is suggestive of something physical in some form, if not initially then after a message or two. Even if she only got back on a week ago, she has 50 messages already most of which are about intimacy, and then she met Snake who gave her the low down. And still, she hasn't edited that profile to make it clear that she's seeking platonic, which she'd do if only to stop wasting her time and weed people out wanting intimacy. I see that change made on the new profiles almost daily, where platonic or no intimacy gets added after a couple of days on the site. If the profile is gone soon or she does actually change it then my read is clearly off, but her behavior seems more of a really good rinser.

I admit I'm the cynical type in this stuff, but I've found it to steer me right about 95% of the time. Even the good girls I've met over the years where it became long term, it turned out some part of the initial story relating to their experience with this was made up or false. Most of the time it's them feigning a total lack of experience, or embellishing the terms of previous arrangements, but have had a few it turned out where they pretended to have more experience than they really did for some reason.

[QUOTE=BlueEyedMan58;4429429]Thanks, very helpful. Lots of stuff I had not thought of, like utilities. Not sure if I can jump through all the hoops and be comfortable. The best was when I had an exclusive with a 26 year old who actually found a place, signed the lease, and handled all the details, and I just reimbursed / advanced her the $$. She used the place for a (legit) business and just a place to relax away from her family, so it was a win-win while it lasted.[/QUOTE]When I first leased a sugar apartment, I thought it would be easy.

About two weeks later, when it was time to clean the place and change the sheets, buy toilet paper, etc. , my view changed.

I would still do it, as a sugar apartment is much better than hotels. But, darn, it's a lot of work to keep a sugar apartment going.

It's the little things that tripped me up. I found myself always running to Target or Wal Mart to pick stuff up. Wine opener? Toilet bowl brush? Bath soap?

You have to duplicate your home life, to some extent, at the sugar apartment.

Also, I made the huge mistake of accepting a date from a woman who lived in the apartment complex. We went out a few times. Then, she became very clingy. Very clingy. It was creepy just coming and going for a while.

But, I don't regret leasing the sugar apartment. Maybe learn from my mistakes.

[QUOTE=BlueEyedMan58;4426104]If you're married and cannot use your own place, it really limits you. It's the very rare girl under 25 that has her own place -- although I have met a couple who had roommates that were willing to go into their own rooms and keep the door shut, LOL. And hotels of course have their own expenses and hassles.

So I have thought from time to time about looking for a cheap furnished apartment that I could use for entertaining. In my city, there are places that you can get at maybe $600/ month, so amortized over maybe 8 visits / month, not a bad cost. Looking for advice or suggestions from anyone who may have tried this. Worried about the usual things relating to anonymity, signing a lease, paying by check or credit card, repairs, insurance whatever.

Just curious if anyone has done this and how it worked out. As always, appreciate everyone'e help.[/QUOTE]I had a studio apartment fuck pad for 4 years where I met providers for outcalls and entertained my SBs.

I found the space by networking with providers asking how they arranged their incall location. Turns out they share our concerns: desire for second place, off the grid, no paper trail, no signed lease / credit check, etc.

I learned that many providers rented incall apartments owned by the same guy across several condo complexes. I believe the guy owned +/-15 condos. No formal contract, month to month, one month deposit, one month notice to vacate, cash only on the 1st. I was the only male he rented to and he jokingly said I was his favorite lessor because I was the only one "who never tried to pay the rent with a blowjob."

It was $800 per month all in. That included utilities, internet service, and a maid every two weeks. It was in a gated complex, had W / D in the unit, a reserved parking spot, and a kick ass pool. I found another monger in a similar position and split the rent. It was not a place to live but just to fuck / entertain. We scheduled with Google Calendar and rarely had time conflicts. Briefly had three of us sharing and that did start to have more time conflicts so two guys with SBs was sweet spot for a studio. Eventually got a steady SB who has her own place and let the condo go.

Hope that helps. Good luck and stay safe.

Okay I got crickets on the last one LOL.

Any info on this girl? Hannah?