"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2116176]
WTF? Women, even young they are confusing. The sure bet, turned into nothing and the one I thought I could never tap, is now a sure deal. LOL.[/QUOTE]The one thing I've learned so far is to handle every SB under the assumption she is fundamentally broken as a person. Of course, they aren't all really that volatile, but so many of them are that it's just safer to assume they are and handle with care (or avoid handling altogether where appropriate).

I think you did the right thing by walking away from the loose wheel, I would have done same and probably taken drinks with me. I think it's better to see them in person before talking money (but then again I never talk money anyway I just gift them after the fact).

[QUOTE=Dolato;2115855]Who has to change the sheets?[/QUOTE]Yeah, when you put it that way maybe not such a good idea.

I've been talking with a POT off and on for almost a year. We first communicated through SA, then she's responded to CL ads I've posted at various times. Each time we've talked, something has come up that has made me decline moving forward with a M&G. But she contacted me again about a week ago and we once again started discussing a M&G. Since I was forced to dismiss my free spirit SB (or more like she dismissed herself), I was open to meeting the off and on POT as soon as possible, which turned out to be last night. She seemed totally on board with everything and she always had been very enthusiastic about doing this with me. Based on her attitude, plus the fact that this was last minute plans, plus it was getting somewhat late and I was sort of tired, I decided to skip a true M&G and just go straight to the FC. I've never skipped M&G and just gone to FC, and I need to not neglect that rule in the future so that things like what happened next can be avoided.

I picked her up and we made small talk along the way. She reaffirmed that she was down for physical stuff. I checked us in, we went to the room, sat on the bed. Made small talk while we had the TV on for background distraction. She sat as far away from me on the bed as possible. Did nothing to further conversation or attempt to make any more than basic chit-chat. Body language conveyed that she was very uncomfortable and awkward. Even when I attempted some small caresses with her, I got no response. She was not at all receptive to being touched, even lightly. Everything about her told me that she did not want to be there. When I asked if she was okay, she expressed that she was tired and if it was okay if she could just go to sleep. We slept next to each other, but there was no cuddling at all. I woke up before her and when she woke up, she still seemed so uncomfortable. She went and took a shower and while she was doing that, I made the decision to cut our date early (we were supposed to spent a full day together) and just take her home. We were clearly not working out. As it turns out, when she came out of the shower, she said she wasn't feeling good, could I take her home? On the way back to her place, we talked about how awkward things had been. We both agreed it was nice to meet each other finally. But for whatever reason, she was totally uncomfortable with it all and she never elaborated on why. She didn't ask for any money and I didn't offer. All it cost me was the room (a cheaper hotel chain, but the room was actually pretty decent for the price) and some gas money to drive 30 minutes there and back. I would be very, very surprised if I ever hear from her again.

In the meantime, I'm speaking with my SDT SB about seeing each other again while I continue to try and find a regular SB. I've reached out to a few POTs on SA that I had either met or spoken with previously, just to test the waters there. A couple of them have responded favorably about picking things up again where we left off, including one that I had met back in April that I had liked very much, but she didn't respond to my follow-up texts.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2116237]I've been talking with a POT off and on for almost a year. We first communicated through SA, then she's responded to CL ads I've posted at various times. Each time we've talked, something has come up that has made me decline moving forward with a M&G. But she contacted me again about a week ago and we once again started discussing a M&G. Since I was forced to dismiss my free spirit SB (or more like she dismissed herself), I was open to meeting the off and on POT as soon as possible, which turned out to be last night. She seemed totally on board with everything and she always had been very enthusiastic about doing this with me. Based on her attitude, plus the fact that this was last minute plans, plus it was getting somewhat late and I was sort of tired, I decided to skip a true M&G and just go straight to the FC. I've never skipped M&G and just gone to FC, and I need to not neglect that rule in the future so that things like what happened next can be avoided.

I picked her up and we made small talk along the way. She reaffirmed that she was down for physical stuff. I checked us in, we went to the room, sat on the bed. Made small talk while we had the TV on for background distraction. She sat as far away from me on the bed as possible. Did nothing to further conversation or attempt to make any more than basic chit-chat. Body language conveyed that she was very uncomfortable and awkward. Even when I attempted some small caresses with her, I got no response. She was not at all receptive to being touched, even lightly. Everything about her told me that she did not want to be there. When I asked if she was okay, she expressed that she was tired and if it was okay if she could just go to sleep. We slept next to each other, but there was no cuddling at all. I woke up before her and when she woke up, she still seemed so uncomfortable. She went and took a shower and while she was doing that, I made the decision to cut our date early (we were supposed to spent a full day together) and just take her home. We were clearly not working out. As it turns out, when she came out of the shower, she said she wasn't feeling good, could I take her home? On the way back to her place, we talked about how awkward things had been. We both agreed it was nice to meet each other finally. But for whatever reason, she was totally uncomfortable with it all and she never elaborated on why. She didn't ask for any money and I didn't offer. All it cost me was the room (a cheaper hotel chain, but the room was actually pretty decent for the price) and some gas money to drive 30 minutes there and back. I would be very, very surprised if I ever hear from her again.

In the meantime, I'm speaking with my SDT SB about seeing each other again while I continue to try and find a regular SB. I've reached out to a few POTs on SA that I had either met or spoken with previously, just to test the waters there. A couple of them have responded favorably about picking things up again where we left off, including one that I had met back in April that I had liked very much, but she didn't respond to my follow-up texts.[/QUOTE]Judging from your other posts on this topic and the manor by which you were able to connect with your other girls, I don't think this was you that was the problem. This sounds like a girl having a true inner moral dilemma. This is the slight risk we take with the younger, more naïve girls. Some can jump right in with both feet, no second guessing, some are tentative but come alive once they are engaged and some, like the girl you describe, think they can, but in the heat of moment when it's right there, they can't do it.

In my humble opinion, chalk it up to another experience. It's all part of the challenge and game. And it's a part I enjoy. Sure, I want sex each time, but knowing there is a chance it won't happen and I have to charm her, connect with her and such to earn it, is part of what I'm enjoying about this.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2116274]Judging from your other posts on this topic and the manor by which you were able to connect with your other girls, I don't think this was you that was the problem. This sounds like a girl having a true inner moral dilemma. This is the slight risk we take with the younger, more nave girls. Some can jump right in with both feet, no second guessing, some are tentative but come alive once they are engaged and some, like the girl you describe, think they can, but in the heat of moment when it's right there, they can't do it.

In my humble opinion, chalk it up to another experience. It's all part of the challenge and game. And it's a part I enjoy. Sure, I want sex each time, but knowing there is a chance it won't happen and I have to charm her, connect with her and such to earn it, is part of what I'm enjoying about this.[/QUOTE]There have been a few times in my sugar career that I've been with a girl whom, once we got to the FC, had the body language of a person who would rather be anywhere else but there. It sucks, but it happens. I try to be nice and understanding about it. Most every SB I've seen has been a first-timer (or claimed to be), so I can understand why some would get cold feet once they actually get into the room, away from public eyes. Just one of the hazards of the bowl that we play in.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2116176]So the girl who texted me to come on over the other night when I was out with "good girl" with no FC visit, invited me over this morning. We texted and she was open for sex. I asked her if she would like me to bring some drinks. She texts me back what type of drinks she likes, but technically never said, yea or nay to drinking. So I took that she had texted me what she liked, as a token to bring some drinks. So I stop and buy a few rounds. Go to her house way out in the middle of fucking nowhere. She opens the door in a bathrobe and shakes my hand. She is a bit heavier then she lead me to believe, but still doable as we agreed to $200 for three hours of afternoon playtime.

So I walk in and set the drinks on her coffee table, and just like your ex wife of twenty years, complete with hands on the hips and that "tone" us old formerly married mongers know all too well, she says, "what the hell is that, you do realize it's 2 pm in the afternoon, a bit early for drinking don't you think? I'm not some drunk you know" I left the drinks on her coffee table, smiled at her, said "have a nice day" and walked right the fuck out.

Get home and the "good girl" I saw the evening before texts me and said she wants to go out again, she liked me and would be ok with going to the FC after another date.u

WTF? Women, even young they are confusing. The sure bet, turned into nothing and the one I thought I could never tap, is now a sure deal. LOL.[/QUOTE]Ain't that the truth!

LOL'd at that post.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2116176]

WTF? Women, even young they are confusing. The sure bet, turned into nothing and the one I thought I could never tap, is now a sure deal. LOL.[/QUOTE]I think if you're batting a 1. 000 for any extended period of time, you either have a real good strong game OR: 1) paying too much 2) dealing with serial SBs / utr / pros 3) have been getting real lucky.

In my past days working sales, if ALL my bids / estimates were converting into signed contracts then I had to take a good honest look as to why and how.

1) Don't have one.

2) be a traveling salesman. Far out of town you have the ability to date in public and entertain these Pots. Most real SBs want the illusion of a relationship. They want to meet for dinner, drinks, etc. There is a thin line between escort behavior and a direct trip to the FC with a new SB.

3) don't lose her trust to start with.

The bottom line, if you have a clingy, suspicious partner it will not work out for long. Once you are caught, you will never have an easy time of it again. Ideally we should not ever get married. We should have a string of SBs. A wife can chew up far more $$ than multiple SBs. THe only exception is a working one with a high paying career. Then you can be a kept man.

Fancy travel trailer or camper / popup: Great plan! I would love to roll up to the M&G,have drinks and bang away.

Question for the group.

Would you pay a premium for a fuck pad over a Hotel? How much would you pay per use? Obvious advantages would be complete anonymity without check in, record keeping. Etc.

Occupancy would be by the minute / day / hour, whatever is needed. The lease holder could possibly make some money on a deal such as this.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2116464]
Fancy travel trailer or camper / popup: Great plan! I would love to roll up to the M&G,have drinks and bang away.[/QUOTE]I was going to post a joke pic, but ran across this luxury bus. The mobile FC would work, but it might set you back a few mil.

[URL]http://funalso.com/funmail/lux-bus.php[/URL]

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2116467]Question for the group.

Would you pay a premium for a fuck pad over a Hotel? How much would you pay per use? Obvious advantages would be complete anonymity without check in, record keeping. Etc.

Occupancy would be by the minute / day / hour, whatever is needed. The lease holder could possibly make some money on a deal such as this.[/QUOTE]I feel bad about not remembering the name, but there was a fellow brother who recently left the hobby that had gotten a room as his dedicated FC.

I recall he got a room off CL and it was in a home owned by an elderly lady. She did not care what was done in the room as long as it stayed in the room and he took his SBs to it when the need came up.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2115486]
The way I see there are three levels of escape to allow hobby participation.

The first is a quick visit, usually with an easy excuse being suffice, allowing you to escape the clutches for a few hours. During this time, you might be running a few errands, or sneaking out, etc.

The second would be for an overnight, with or without cell phone contact and expected contact from the SO. If she checks in and expects a response, you are given leeway for time to respond back. Preferably 2-4 hours later, without setting off suspicions. Ideas for this?

The third level and probably most preferred, would be 1-3 nights away, with no expectation of contact from the SO. Meaning you get away for more then a day, without any suspicions from the SO when you don't check in, text back or answer the damn phone for more then an entire 24 hour period. I find this damn near impossible, but if other members might have some creative ideas, perhaps it is achievable. I mean even if you suddenly became an astronaut and were on a mission to Mars, she is likely still going to expect contact.

Now when I was married, I engage in all three, but not without huge fallout and serious fighting and explaining AFTER the fact. Trust me brothers, this method does not work. You need a convincing plan going in.

So lets share some ideas that you may have used in the past?[/QUOTE]With my present circumstances, I wouldn't even attempt Level 3, LOL. Level 2 is possible, but very tricky. So I mostly stick to Level 1 Escapes these days.

Level 2 Escapes.

I attempted these more often earlier in my sugar career. You can say you're going to visit an old friend for a day or two. Preferably a friend who has no social media presence and someone your SO will never bump into. The escape plan is okay, but the problem is it could fall apart pretty easily if your SO decides to do some digging or asks for some verification or proof of your outing with your friend. I've used this escape plan a few times, mainly because I successfully put in place a rule that when my SO is with her friends, I don't text / call her. And when I'm with my friends, she doesn't text / call me. So it's like our mini-vacations from each other and it's what made this escape plan possible for me. But like I said, I haven't done it much lately because it became harder to remember all the stories I had to recreate for weekend long activities and I couldn't give concrete proof if the SO ever asked. So I'm in search of developing another escape plan for Level 2 that has less holes and weak points. If I could somehow incorporate regular business trips into my small business that would be ideal.

Level 1 Escapes.

These are the easiest for me and so far all my escapes this year have been level 1. During the work day I'm regularly out of contact for several hours. Also using the gym is another great way to extend "off-the-grid" time, particularly in the evening hours. I never bring my phone inside the gym, so it's not expected for me to answer calls / texts in there. The great thing about Level 1 Escapes, the great majority of the time the SO doesn't even know you were gone. She could think it's just a normal day you went to work and then the gym when in actuality you were banging a hot 20 year-old college coed at a nearby hotel. Also since I'm more less still in my local area, if there is an emergency, I can still get back in a reasonable amount of time without setting off alarms. I also randomly do errands and never do anything entirely on a fixed routine schedule. By making little random events normal which you can verify, then it's easier to explain small "off-the-grid" time if the SO gets curious.

I realize some guys here live in areas where SBs are pretty spread out and it requires driving several hours. But I just don't like driving more than 45 minutes to see a SB. From a car accident to heavy traffic, too many unexpected things can happen which can make things very difficult for you. If you have car trouble 2 hours away from home when you were suppose to be just 30 minutes way, then you're going to have big problems explaining the situation to the SO. It's why I generally try to stay within a 30 mile radius of where I'm suppose to be whether it's home or away. So if the unexpected happens, it's still somewhat explainable without raising serious flags.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2116391]I think if you're batting a 1. 000 for any extended period of time, you either have a real good strong game OR: 1) paying too much 2) dealing with serial SBs / utr / pros 3) have been getting real lucky.

In my past days working sales, if ALL my bids / estimates were converting into signed contracts then I had to take a good honest look as to why and how.[/QUOTE]Its a good confidence builder to start with some utr's. Once you get enough of them and hopefully a couple of real NP's along the way, your game is just naturally going to go up. I still love utr's in the mix while I am waiting for the next best thing. A hot and needy little 19 year old trying to act tough.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2116467]Question for the group.

Would you pay a premium for a fuck pad over a Hotel? How much would you pay per use? Obvious advantages would be complete anonymity without check in, record keeping. Etc.

Occupancy would be by the minute / day / hour, whatever is needed. The lease holder could possibly make some money on a deal such as this.[/QUOTE]I think once your hotel costs hit around 800-1000 per month and your SBs are mostly local, then it's probably a good idea to consider a Sugar Pad. The idea has been brought up here before but the problem often brought up is that you're leaving a pretty strong paper trail with the lease and credit report. You'll probably also need to spend some additional money just to furnish it modestly because a bare empty apartment doesn't exactly project "sugar daddy". Then you also have to avoid the temptation of letting a SB stay there temporarily because it may prove very difficult getting her out of there and you can't always monitor her behavior. And finally you're dealing with a fixed cost in a potentially year-long lease. Regardless of how your financials fluctuate or your luck with SBs in a given month, you'll have to pay the Apt rent.

And if you're sharing an apartment with several other SDs, you run the danger of drawing too much attention. Neighbors or the Super may think something is up if they see 3-4 different old men constantly bringing many different young women to the apartment every few days. It could draw the wrong attention. Plus if one guy screws up or has a psycho stalking the apartment, then it could ruin it and possibly expose it for everyone involved. IMO, it's probably best to keep a Sugar Pad a private individual enterprise.

Thanks for the good responses to my previous post. Now one more question for the wise men of this thread. Does it seem legit for a SB to never ask for a picture? I don't have one on any profile of mine, and I recently have begun corresponding with two POTs who have not yet asked for a picture. POT1 is very enthusiastic, and sent me her number to begin texting. Checking her number read directly to her real personal info, and she is definitely who her profile says she is. A college student. Which does not rule out her being a semi-pro or utr. But she is apparently in a relationship, and is also maybe a year younger than her profile says (which means really 20 not 21). POT2, 23 year old, looks smoking hot in the picture on her profile, and also seems very enthusiastic about meeting. However, she does not want to text until we have met (a different red flag. Makes me think I might get stood up, although she is a premium member of SD4M so not sure why she would spend the money just to play games).

Now I do have to say this happened once before many years ago when I first dabbled in SD / sb. The sb was a little scatterbrained, and I think she just forgot to ask for a pic. When she showed up she let out a little "whew" and said something like "thank goodness you're cute". Took me a while to bang her, but wow she was smoking hot, with a rocking bod. Sadly, she always seemed to have bad breath! LOL. She was late 20's though. My recent experience with the late teens early 20's' ladies is they ALWAYS want a pic. Curious as to everyone's thoughts on these two not asking for one.

Norm!

P.S. The 18 year old (and I think still in HS) POT has gone radio silent. Probably for the best.