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[QUOTE=VerySlowly;1194839]Are you saying if you have no COCk, the sun won't rise? LOL[/QUOTE]So your response to SJ is to mock? He was asking you to be civil, to state your opinion and state the facts. Your response is to mock him? Is it not possible to act like adults here? Please, can we all not get along?
[QUOTE=Sillyolman;1194939]So your response to SJ is to mock? He was asking you to be civil, to state your opinion and state the facts. Your response is to mock him? Is it not possible to act like adults here? Please, can we all not get along?[/QUOTE]LOL means Laugh out loud.
You really named yourself well-VS
The best way for a lousy place to go away is to not do business there.
Reasons for Boycott:
1. Self-service: no real stress relief.
2. Non-inclusive pricing: lowball pricing does not include TS. You pay extra for that.
3. Strongly suspect that they turned in their A++ competition (Ocean Spa) for not being 100% licensed.
4. Counterfeiting: They have signs in their massage rooms that say tips are welcome. It includes a photocopy of a $100 USA legal bank note (a Federal offense). Someone should call the US Secret Service on them.
Options to go to instead of this place and my grade: fairly close.
1. Golden Tiger: A- (OBT and Deerfield)
2. That place at I-Drive and Kirkman: B.
Let's all avoid Oriental Massage and make them pay for their evil doing. Be safe.
I don't believe I have seen a request here before to actually "Boycott" a business. However, I would like to add that I LIKE IT! Even though there is no proof about OS it is much to coincidental! Maybe by doing this the other establishments may get the message that we do expect the services that we want and why we went there.
It will be interesting to see if this works, I for one will be joining the boycott.
[QUOTE=Gentleman 100; 1195303]The best way for a lousy place to go away is to not do business there.
Reasons for Boycott:
1. Self-service: no real stress relief.
2. Non-inclusive pricing: lowball pricing does not include TS. You pay extra for that.
3. Strongly suspect that they turned in their A++ competition (Ocean Spa) for not being 100% licensed.
4. Counterfeiting: They have signs in their massage rooms that say tips are welcome. It includes a photocopy of a $100 USA legal bank note (a Federal offense). Someone should call the US Secret Service on them.
Options to go to instead of this place and my grade: fairly close.
1. Golden Tiger: A- (OBT and Deerfield)
2. That place at I-Drive and Kirkman: B.
Let's all avoid Oriental Massage and make them pay for their evil doing. Be safe. [/QUOTE]
Not one to let the Ocean / TR saga die, I add my $0. 02:
I posted this on April 6th after a visit to TR:
"They're a little crazy with their offers after about 3 minutes with a 1st time visitor to their place and I would expect them to have a long-term "Out to Lunch" sign in the window before long using this business model."
It didn't take a great seer or prophet to come up with this but just someone who's been at this game for a long time in spite of my newbie posting status here. I frequented AMP's in Tampa enough over the years to see them come and go and the ones that go fast are where the action is just too over the top. The Osaka in Tampa got shut down shortly after the word got out that anything goes. I got to sample the goods there a few times but it had the shelf life of milk once the word got out on the goings on. At another location where I was getting Ocean-type service, two detectives came through the main door as I was exiting my room with a soon-to-go-away smile. They asked the lady I was with for her I'd and one said,"What about him?" and the other said,"He can go." I think I threw away the shorts I was wearing that day but left in a hurry and the lady left the country not too long after.
The point is that I've never seen one of these over the top places last very long. I'm sure it's a combination of things but I don't believe the jealous competition was a primary cause. Cops solve crimes most of the time because someone talks and in this specific case because there seems to be a line on what you can get away with at an AMP. If a customer gets a tit or snatch in their face immediately without asking, you better hurry there and get some because that stuff has a shelf life of about 30 days.
Has anyone checked out the downtown college girls recently? They seemed to have lowered the rates on a consistent basis, but who knows if they still upsell like crazy. The crappy part is the girls look pretty hot in the photos. Yeah some are for sure stolen, but the amateur looking ones are nice.
Oh well, just curious.
I guess I feel compelled to add my 1/2 cents worth (recession valuation). With all the guesswork about why or who dunnit, O / S was a great place that will long live in the lore that is this board. (RIP Boardroom, O / S, the strip club on obt where I got my first lap dance in 1983, etc) Places come and go all the time in this unfortunate business. Rumors and finger pointing will abound, as it has always been a favorite game of mongers young and old. In reality, unlicensed MP is an easy violation for Johnny Law. If everything we say is monitored then why isn't everyone out of business. Reality, LEO still needs to make a case, I. E. Have evidence, call witnesses etc. What we say is hearsay (possible admissions or possible opinions and / or fabrications) , not generally reliable enough to make a case stick in court. So the places that play fast and loose, often go down the fastest. The ones who ease into it, take precautions, usually last longer. (hence the need for this board to help dechipher the code) Regardless of the tipster, (and don't underestimate the possibility of a rival snitch. Money talks and the newest hottest place was taking $ away from someone) the place doesn't close if they don't get caught or have violations, regardless of what we say. If we think the heat is on because of what we say, then we may give ourselves a little too much credit. Discretion is often the better part of valor but the beauty of this board is the info we share about the hobby we love. YMMV, is always true and great advice to everyone, everytime we participate. I could go on, but the horse is long dead and buried on this one.
Greetings. Its been quite a while since I posted and am unfortunately not returning with not much of a report. What I am looking for though is a PM from someone to share some info with me. I am over the Asian places and wondered if someone could share a MT who is white or hispanic that is more off the radar or appears legit. I've seen most of the CL advertisers and am more excited by new encounters then repeats, I am sure some of you understand that. I tried 3 different spas in south Lake County and there was nothing to be had so save your gas money.
Thanks and be safe.MM
I have made it clear in previous posts that I've made some Asian friends over the years in my visits to the AMPs. There are others who post here that have done the same. My friends that I continue to stay in touch with are scattered around the county and still work as therapists with some now also shop owners. These friendships have provided some wonderful benefits of a personal nature but they have also provided a great deal of insight into the business.
We are absolutely a targeting mechanism. Cause and effect. Repeated posts generate specific behavior where the shop / therapist is targeted by two specific groups: 1) a surge of mongers who immediately expect the exact same level of service that was often provided to the poster based on a level of trust accumulated over multiple visits and 2) leo activity, that can take many forms, based on complaints from the general public who read about activity in their neighborhoods here (escorts don't advertise their 'come arrest me here' address so it's a different game – massage parlors do).
It doesn't take insider knowledge to see what happens next. Posting history on this thread spells it out repeatedly. Shop behavior after a lot of chatter here easily validates both of the above posting results as the girls will change their name, or refuse to tell it, to avoid the harassment. You will often also start to be asked if you talk on the computer. Anyone modestly active in the massage game has seen this activity occur many times either directly to ourselves or to others via reading their posts here (see the Ocean reports at the end) throughout the years. This isn't a new phenomenon and it is a behavioral progression that is repeated constantly. If you ask virtually any Asian at an AMP if they want you to talk about them on the computer the answer will be no. As money oriented as they are (and believe me they are incredibly money oriented) , the publicity isn't worth the negative ramifications to them.
I'm a huge advocate of the purpose of this board. It is stupid, however, when our reporting undermines the mission of the board and the readily available posting history on this very thread documents that it does with many examples far beyond Ocean if you bother to be a student of the hobby you are investing your hard-earned coin in. There must a balance between content and serving the need. Too many people report because their ego compels them to do so. Too many others do so without conscious thought as to the outcome of their words.
It is much more fun to report excessively and in detail. Over time it is much less rewarding because it drives good providers away. Many of the recent posts on this saga have been vain attempts to rationalize and justify past actions with the most guilty doing the most vigorous protesting. You aren't going to truly maximize your long term productivity in this game without occasionally engaging in a little honest self-reflection about your actions.
Happy and safe hunting to all.
[QUOTE=Overboard; 1195655]I have made it clear in previous posts that I've made some Asian friends over the years in my visits to the AMPs. There are others who post here that have done the same. My friends that I continue to stay in touch with are scattered around the county and still work as therapists with some now also shop owners. These friendships have provided some wonderful benefits of a personal nature but they have also provided a great deal of insight into the business.
We are absolutely a targeting mechanism. Cause and effect. Repeated posts generate specific behavior where the shop / therapist is targeted by two specific groups: 1) a surge of mongers who immediately expect the exact same level of service that was often provided to the poster based on a level of trust accumulated over multiple visits and 2) leo activity, that can take many forms, based on complaints from the general public who read about activity in their neighborhoods here (escorts don't advertise their 'come arrest me here' address so it's a different game – massage parlors do).
It doesn't take insider knowledge to see what happens next. Posting history on this thread spells it out repeatedly. Shop behavior after a lot of chatter here easily validates both of the above posting results as the girls will change their name, or refuse to tell it, to avoid the harassment. You will often also start to be asked if you talk on the computer. Anyone modestly active in the massage game has seen this activity occur many times either directly to ourselves or to others via reading their posts here (see the Ocean reports at the end) throughout the years. This isn't a new phenomenon and it is a behavioral progression that is repeated constantly. If you ask virtually any Asian at an AMP if they want you to talk about them on the computer the answer will be no. As money oriented as they are (and believe me they are incredibly money oriented) , the publicity isn't worth the negative ramifications to them.
I'm a huge advocate of the purpose of this board. It is stupid, however, when our reporting undermines the mission of the board and the readily available posting history on this very thread documents that it does with many examples far beyond Ocean if you bother to be a student of the hobby you are investing your hard-earned coin in. There must a balance between content and serving the need. Too many people report because their ego compels them to do so. Too many others do so without conscious thought as to the outcome of their words.
It is much more fun to report excessively and in detail. Over time it is much less rewarding because it drives good providers away. Many of the recent posts on this saga have been vain attempts to rationalize and justify past actions with the most guilty doing the most vigorous protesting. You aren't going to truly maximize your long term productivity in this game without occasionally engaging in a little honest self-reflection about your actions.
Happy and safe hunting to all. [/QUOTE]Preach on brother
[QUOTE=Overboard; 1195655]I have made it clear in previous posts that I've made some Asian friends over the years in my visits to the AMPs. There are others who post here that have done the same. My friends that I continue to stay in touch with are scattered around the county and still work as therapists with some now also shop owners. These friendships have provided some wonderful benefits of a personal nature but they have also provided a great deal of insight into the business.
We are absolutely a targeting mechanism. Cause and effect. Repeated posts generate specific behavior where the shop / therapist is targeted by two specific groups: 1) a surge of mongers who immediately expect the exact same level of service that was often provided to the poster based on a level of trust accumulated over multiple visits and 2) leo activity, that can take many forms, based on complaints from the general public who read about activity in their neighborhoods here (escorts don't advertise their 'come arrest me here' address so it's a different game – massage parlors do).
It doesn't take insider knowledge to see what happens next. Posting history on this thread spells it out repeatedly. Shop behavior after a lot of chatter here easily validates both of the above posting results as the girls will change their name, or refuse to tell it, to avoid the harassment. You will often also start to be asked if you talk on the computer. Anyone modestly active in the massage game has seen this activity occur many times either directly to ourselves or to others via reading their posts here (see the Ocean reports at the end) throughout the years. This isn't a new phenomenon and it is a behavioral progression that is repeated constantly. If you ask virtually any Asian at an AMP if they want you to talk about them on the computer the answer will be no. As money oriented as they are (and believe me they are incredibly money oriented) , the publicity isn't worth the negative ramifications to them.
I'm a huge advocate of the purpose of this board. It is stupid, however, when our reporting undermines the mission of the board and the readily available posting history on this very thread documents that it does with many examples far beyond Ocean if you bother to be a student of the hobby you are investing your hard-earned coin in. There must a balance between content and serving the need. Too many people report because their ego compels them to do so. Too many others do so without conscious thought as to the outcome of their words.
It is much more fun to report excessively and in detail. Over time it is much less rewarding because it drives good providers away. Many of the recent posts on this saga have been vain attempts to rationalize and justify past actions with the most guilty doing the most vigorous protesting. You aren't going to truly maximize your long term productivity in this game without occasionally engaging in a little honest self-reflection about your actions.
Happy and safe hunting to all. [/QUOTE]Well written, reasonable tone, informative, not overly emotional or judgemental. And on top of it, probably pretty darn accurate. This is no place for you! .
Thank you!
[QUOTE=Ftguy68; 1195447]Has anyone checked out the downtown college girls recently? They seemed to have lowered the rates on a consistent basis, but who knows if they still upsell like crazy. The crappy part is the girls look pretty hot in the photos. Yeah some are for sure stolen, but the amateur looking ones are nice.
Oh well, just curious.[/QUOTE]I have. IMHO they have improved. The upsell isn't so prevalent. Massage still just an excuse for a massage, but the girls (or at least many of them) are pretty darn hot, young and eager to please. This is just the way I like them. Not afraid to show a little flesh and more than a memorable shake to finish off the festivities. I worry that they are too high profile though, which keeps me away most of the time. I'm looking for one of the MT ladies out there that flies under the radar.
Could not of said it any better.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=Overboard; 1195655]I have made it clear in previous posts that I've made some Asian friends over the years in my visits to the AMPs. There are others who post here that have done the same. My friends that I continue to stay in touch with are scattered around the county and still work as therapists with some now also shop owners. These friendships have provided some wonderful benefits of a personal nature but they have also provided a great deal of insight into the business.
We are absolutely a targeting mechanism. Cause and effect. Repeated posts generate specific behavior where the shop / therapist is targeted by two specific groups: 1) a surge of mongers who immediately expect the exact same level of service that was often provided to the poster based on a level of trust accumulated over multiple visits and 2) leo activity, that can take many forms, based on complaints from the general public who read about activity in their neighborhoods here (escorts don't advertise their 'come arrest me here' address so it's a different game – massage parlors do).
It doesn't take insider knowledge to see what happens next. Posting history on this thread spells it out repeatedly. Shop behavior after a lot of chatter here easily validates both of the above posting results as the girls will change their name, or refuse to tell it, to avoid the harassment. You will often also start to be asked if you talk on the computer. Anyone modestly active in the massage game has seen this activity occur many times either directly to ourselves or to others via reading their posts here (see the Ocean reports at the end) throughout the years. This isn't a new phenomenon and it is a behavioral progression that is repeated constantly. If you ask virtually any Asian at an AMP if they want you to talk about them on the computer the answer will be no. As money oriented as they are (and believe me they are incredibly money oriented) , the publicity isn't worth the negative ramifications to them.
I'm a huge advocate of the purpose of this board. It is stupid, however, when our reporting undermines the mission of the board and the readily available posting history on this very thread documents that it does with many examples far beyond Ocean if you bother to be a student of the hobby you are investing your hard-earned coin in. There must a balance between content and serving the need. Too many people report because their ego compels them to do so. Too many others do so without conscious thought as to the outcome of their words.
It is much more fun to report excessively and in detail. Over time it is much less rewarding because it drives good providers away. Many of the recent posts on this saga have been vain attempts to rationalize and justify past actions with the most guilty doing the most vigorous protesting. You aren't going to truly maximize your long term productivity in this game without occasionally engaging in a little honest self-reflection about your actions.
Happy and safe hunting to all. [/QUOTE]
Overboard your comments are well written and inspiration for further thought. I must admit I had never considered the aspect of the effect on the girls / AMPs which may be a reason in itself to revise posting habits.
That being said we will have to agree to disagree LEO elements. In 30 years of business I learned not to trust anecdotes but to put my faith in Dr. Demming and the data. That has served me well in professional life and I try to apply that to all aspects of my life. I just don't see the data to say post on here initiate LEO action. As Lawdog (dude you really need to change that handle) pointed out there are counta examples. There are places where FS is available that have been reviewed on here and have operated for years withouut problems. There is a little snippet of eastern philosophy that is thrown into any movie witha scene in Asia,"The nail that sticks out gets hammered." OS stuck out. They operated in a way that drew attention to themselves and paid the price. I am quite certain their days would have been numbered even if there were no post about them on this forum. Let's not blame people here for a business that operated recklessly getting caught.
[QUOTE=Overboard; 1195655]I have made it clear in previous posts that I've made some Asian friends over the years in my visits to the AMPs. There are others who post here that have done the same. My friends that I continue to stay in touch with are scattered around the county and still work as therapists with some now also shop owners. These friendships have provided some wonderful benefits of a personal nature but they have also provided a great deal of insight into the business.
We are absolutely a targeting mechanism. Cause and effect. Repeated posts generate specific behavior where the shop / therapist is targeted by two specific groups: 1) a surge of mongers who immediately expect the exact same level of service that was often provided to the poster based on a level of trust accumulated over multiple visits and 2) leo activity, that can take many forms, based on complaints from the general public who read about activity in their neighborhoods here (escorts don't advertise their 'come arrest me here' address so it's a different game – massage parlors do).
It doesn't take insider knowledge to see what happens next. Posting history on this thread spells it out repeatedly. Shop behavior after a lot of chatter here easily validates both of the above posting results as the girls will change their name, or refuse to tell it, to avoid the harassment. You will often also start to be asked if you talk on the computer. Anyone modestly active in the massage game has seen this activity occur many times either directly to ourselves or to others via reading their posts here (see the Ocean reports at the end) throughout the years. This isn't a new phenomenon and it is a behavioral progression that is repeated constantly. If you ask virtually any Asian at an AMP if they want you to talk about them on the computer the answer will be no. As money oriented as they are (and believe me they are incredibly money oriented) , the publicity isn't worth the negative ramifications to them.
I'm a huge advocate of the purpose of this board. It is stupid, however, when our reporting undermines the mission of the board and the readily available posting history on this very thread documents that it does with many examples far beyond Ocean if you bother to be a student of the hobby you are investing your hard-earned coin in. There must a balance between content and serving the need. Too many people report because their ego compels them to do so. Too many others do so without conscious thought as to the outcome of their words.
It is much more fun to report excessively and in detail. Over time it is much less rewarding because it drives good providers away. Many of the recent posts on this saga have been vain attempts to rationalize and justify past actions with the most guilty doing the most vigorous protesting. You aren't going to truly maximize your long term productivity in this game without occasionally engaging in a little honest self-reflection about your actions.
Happy and safe hunting to all. [/QUOTE]
Excellent post!
Some seem to seek extensive data, I stand back and look at the results, as in "Occams Razor" where Occam postulates that the simplest answer is the correct one.
"Scientists must use the simplest means of arriving at their results and exclude
Everything not perceived by the senses."
"When you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
So when you have a message board that spews lots of data, LE now has a source of information, there is no other common source of this data, as this information is not commonly spoken of in polite company. LE knows that MP prostitution is difficult to prove but that improper or no license or Fire inspection or Health Dept. Inspection violations are sufficient to solve the problem, even if it is temporary. Since LE has read this " Anecdotal" information repeatedly, Occam says that only an idiot would go to extremes (a big investigation) to achieve the goal of closing the den of inequity when the straight line will achieve the goal. (Simplest answer).
Anyone who looks for complicated answers to simple problems is simply making their thought process more difficult and is in denial of reality. LE operates on a rather simple hypothesis. If it quacks like a duck it is a duck, it might be Gilbert Godfried but if they screw up and their wrong nothing happens to them at all-so why not! Bliss is a good example. Raid+Arrest=Prosecutor has no valid evidence and files no charges (This is called a no information) and the people arrested simply walk out of court, LE has no downside they pat themselves on the back and go back to work, if they had a downside they would not be so quick to pull the trigger with no substantive evidence.
The doubter(SJ) says "OS STUCK OUT" "They operated in a way that drew attention to themselves and paid the price." Did they advertise FS.--NO. So I ask again where did LE get their info, AND HOW DID THEY CALL ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES, I'M QUITE CERTAIN I NEVER WOULD HAVE HEARD OF THEM WERE IT NOT FOR THIS BOARD.
Bottom line is they read this everyday and if they can shoot fish in a barrel, they will E. O. S-VS