"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2114302]
So. Just food for thought as to why your SO is not looking real hard at what you do, or caring that the browser's cookies are being cleaned. She might be getting what she wants from me, or someone like us. It certainly became clear to me in the civi world when I word got out that I was getting divorced 10 years ago that married women cheat just as much as men. They would show up in the middle of the day and all they were interested in was hot sweaty sex.[/QUOTE]This is very true. It can work both ways. It's something that you have to accept if you cheat, that eventually that pendulum swings in both directions. In my case I have many computers in separate room that my SO has no access to. The computer she actually does use is owned by me so I can spyware it legally without breaking felony cyberstalking laws and watch everything she does (and I do, including screen recording and keystroke logging.)

But then again I only SD about a month out of the year. If I did it year round I would be too distracted to stay on top of a real relationship, and I don't know if she would cheat first or leave first or if I would simply send her packing because the SBs are more convenient and don't come with emotional responsibility, but eventually I would have to give up my relationship with her. I just accepted that and that's one reason I do not play in the bowl at all unless she is traveling far, far away. I almost broke this rule once, coming close to a M&G with an 18 yr old mixed baby that I had already invested a lot of time warming up, but the disciplined side of me decided not to go through with it due to the risks, so I had to cut the 18 yr old loose so that one of you other horny bastards could have her. LOL.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2114302]A couple weeks ago there were comments about the status of the females. I discovered yesterday that my newest favorite is also married. So, for 2014 the totals are 2 models, single and way too high maintenance (and mediocre sex) to be married, 2 engaged, and 4 married. Of those, 2 married and one engaged have been regulars, multiple visits per month.

So. Just food for thought as to why your SO is not looking real hard at what you do, or caring that the browser's cookies are being cleaned. She might be getting what she wants from me, or someone like us. It certainly became clear to me in the civi world when I word got out that I was getting divorced 10 years ago that married women cheat just as much as men. They would show up in the middle of the day and all they were interested in was hot sweaty sex. Sound familiar? I know some of you have a thng about that, but being someone that is in the bowl because I like BB sex, the married and engaged ones almost always have the birth control thing taken care of.[/QUOTE]Interesting in that of all seven SB's I've seen to this point, I have easily and quickly been able to find their facebook and other information via the web. A few offered it and even asked if I wanted to join them on facebook. Obviously that was a big NO. So far of all the SB's I've seen, all have been forthright in the information about themselves they have shared with me. I. E, they have all been honest. In some aspect, being so covert and secretive myself, I have some guilt about that aspect, but having learned many years ago that, "hell have no fury" I will always cover my ass.

As for the throat cancer thing, all I can say about that, is we will all meet our demise somehow one day, life is also about enjoying the ride and while I minimize risk, getting out of bed and breathing presents a risk. I've been mongering for decades off and on and always taken oral BBBJ, but covered up for intercourse, with SB's I'm willing to go uncovered start to finish. So far I've remained disease free. (knock on wood) I've assessed the risk of fucking women under age 30 and it's really quite minimal for us men. A risk I'm willing to assume.

I secured a M&G with a 19 YO little 5'1" spinner for tonight. This one will take some serious work as she has already explained a huge moral issue within herself about this. So I've viewing this one as more of a challenge and a different pace. I'm actually looking forward to the extra challenge. But having read through a few hundred past posts here, it is often the ones who have any issue or seem overly cautious with this, who end up being the quickest and the best. So we shall see.

[QUOTE=ThaiGringo;2112064]I've been exploring and considering the SD / SB arrangement. What kind of budget is a minimum to play? This may be out of my league, but I sure hope not! If anyone can direct me to info, it would be much appreciated![/QUOTE]I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm!

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2114370]I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm![/QUOTE]To summarize with my limited experience thus far, what I can say is each and every situation is a bit unique. And honestly, that is some of the thrill of this game. If I wanted, just add water and get laid, I'd go pro. In this game, the chase is a good deal of the fun. Turning some reluctant 20-something SB into a sex maniac is the best feeling in the world. As for my average, it's been way, way too high and I'm working on this now. My first two were M&G only, before finding this site and I dropped $300 and $200 on each date for simply having dinner and drinks. Bad move. I now tell them up front, I only will pay an allowance and cash per visit when she is comfortable enough to take it to the next level. I do not pay them for M&G and I'm now upfront about that. I've been paying $300 on down to $200 per visit. This does not include some travel, hotel and usually around $150 per night for dinner and drinks. I've been averaging $600-$700 per night because of this and I'm setting up something to cut this down. I am hoping to get a location secure and be able to offer $150-$200 per FC session in the near future.

Always ask the girl what she expects first and then go from there. Always work in an angle of "per visit" payments, never a set monthly allowance. You really just need to be slick and learn how to slowly angle in this type of negotiation. You cannot just come right at them, or you will lose many good girls. Even the ones that just want to have crazy sex and get right to fucking will still play a bit of hard to get and see if you can be a gentleman. So play the game. Once you get a few under your belt, you will develop a strategy that works best for you. Mine is still in the process of evolving.

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2114370]I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm![/QUOTE]RE FC: In my profile and 1st few emails I make it very clear that I expect "intimacy" and ask them what they are expecting to receive as an SB. The ball is in their court. Many will say " I don't know I'm new to this " I will throw out my number which right now is $100 =$ . If you can take them out and have a date in public you have an easier time of it and can get them a little tipsy, flirt, then ask if they would like to get a room for a little "private time " . You can tell if they are "feeling it " Right now I can't date out and about, so I straight up say that we will meet in a Hotel for some romance for $ . Some will bargain, some will go dark, some will say OK but only for 15 minutes.

Average sugar drops the longer you are in this hobby. At first it is easy to be overly generous. Most SBs should be available for $200 to 250 / session, whether 1 hr or all night. Throw in dinner, drinks, hotel you are talking $400+. Not a cheap date.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2114428]

Average sugar drops the longer you are in this hobby. At first it is easy to be overly generous. Most SBs should be available for $200 to 250 / session, whether 1 hr or all night. Throw in dinner, drinks, hotel you are talking $400+. Not a cheap date.[/QUOTE]This and what others have said is spot on.

I'd just like to add, but careful which lines of negotiations you open up. For example, never explicitly say, "I'll give you 100 for 30 minutes in the FC or 200 for 6 hours. ". If you start paying her based on time, then you're literally turning her into an escort and you'll lose in the end because she'll start charging you by the hour and have a clock running in her head. Also unless you're dealing with a UTR or detached BC, avoid giving extra money for specific sexual favors. For example, don't say, "I'll give you 150 if I can give you a facial. ". Because pretty soon she'll start creating a menu and tell you for 100 more she'll swallow your cum and so on. It encourages Nando1 behavior where they try to extract every possible dollar out of you at every turn.

You can negotiate on sexual favors, but just don't directly tie money to it. The point is, you're asking for the things that will make you happy. And ultimately if you're happy, then you'll keep giving her an allowance. Same thing with time, ideally the allowance you give per visit should be the same whether she's with you for 1 hour or 12 hours. Besides with the longer dates, the girl usually benefits from free dinners, meals, and etc. But she's there for you. A good sugar baby will stay as long as you want her to given each other's schedule. Probably the easiest way to identify a Pro is that they usually won't want to spend more than one hour with you unless they're getting at least 300-500. So often times in the early discussions with a Pot, I'll throw it out there that I want to spend a whole day together on a weekend and see how she reacts.

Anyone else get a kick out of Alan Kalter's hot little gum-smacking deer-in-headlights blonde sugar baby that he refers to as his "daughter"? Hehe. She was on again tonight. I think that's only the second time they've used her in a bit. Alan always cracks me up.

So to speak, but I was fairly certain I would tonight. Met a college girl, aged 25,5'2" little spinner I mentioned the other night. Girl had a solid head on her shoulders, very intelligent and well spoken. I did not think there would be any trips to the FC before the date and was not surprised when it did not happen. Not even an opening to bring it up. All small and business talk type stuff. I could tell she was unsure about what she was doing. She did agree to go out again, but I'm not sure how much "courting" I'm willing to do batting 1000% with my last seven straight dates. Don't these girls realize what this game is about?

I had emailed a different girl earlier and when I was out with good girl, I got a text with her telling me I could come over to her place. So I picked the wrong girl for tonight, that's for sure!

Anyone here ever sent the wrong girl the wrong text? Ugh. I did that a few days ago and got little missy all pissed off now. LOL. Funny she is probably doing the same thing, but we are the only ones who are the bad guys, right? I texted an established sugar girl about how great it was to meet her and about the night, obviously she figured out I was out with someone else.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2115020]Anyone here ever sent the wrong girl the wrong text? Ugh. I did that a few days ago and got little missy all pissed off now. LOL. Funny she is probably doing the same thing, but we are the only ones who are the bad guys, right? I texted an established sugar girl about how great it was to meet her and about the night, obviously she figured out I was out with someone else.[/QUOTE]I did this once. Luckily the text sent to the wrong one was such that it was something fairly innocent that could be played off (not a deal breaker). Then I thought to myself, is it really a problem if I lose one SB over the ordeal? Not really. It mattered only because I had such a short time frame to play in, so the real loss would have been the time I had left to fill her shoes if she went dark. Otherwise I was thinking if she did get pissed, there's always one more right behind her. It's one of the things I prefer about the bowl to civy dating. In civy dating you've usually got a real problem when that happens.

For those with an SO, the risk is much higher and the amount of volume and time you can engage in is very limited. So I thought I would start a possible discussion for ideas of ways to elude the ever so clutching SO, AKA wife, etc so we can engage in your favorite and much needed past time. SB-ing.

The way I see there are three levels of escape to allow hobby participation.

The first is a quick visit, usually with an easy excuse being suffice, allowing you to escape the clutches for a few hours. During this time, you might be running a few errands, or sneaking out, etc.

The second would be for an overnight, with or without cell phone contact and expected contact from the SO. If she checks in and expects a response, you are given leeway for time to respond back. Preferably 2-4 hours later, without setting off suspicions. Ideas for this?

The third level and probably most preferred, would be 1-3 nights away, with no expectation of contact from the SO. Meaning you get away for more then a day, without any suspicions from the SO when you don't check in, text back or answer the damn phone for more then an entire 24 hour period. I find this damn near impossible, but if other members might have some creative ideas, perhaps it is achievable. I mean even if you suddenly became an astronaut and were on a mission to Mars, she is likely still going to expect contact.

Now when I was married, I engage in all three, but not without huge fallout and serious fighting and explaining AFTER the fact. Trust me brothers, this method does not work. You need a convincing plan going in.

So lets share some ideas that you may have used in the past?

Kinda slow lately. The best I could come up with this week was a smoking hot 18 year old that offered a HJ but no sex for $. I might see her Tuesday just to get my hands on her amazing body. Sometime (but rarely) you can convert a HJ or BJ only date to something more down the road. She only lives 3 minutes from me so that's helpful. Also going to look at a tiny but perfect single to use as an FC that's only 10 minutes from me. I miss out on too many opportunities due to not wanting to take a strange girl to my place. And I like a lot of nando 1 girls. Just to hookup. So I am checking into it. 7 to 8 hundred a month. I may try it for a year. My home is kind of homey plus I have a kid. Sometimes a place like this can amp up the sexiness of the date, as obviously there is only one reason to be there.

Also got an offer for FS from a white 24 year old utr I did like 3 years ago. But she is not really my type. A little tall and heavier than I like.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2115776]Kinda slow lately. The best I could come up with this week was a smoking hot 18 year old that offered a HJ but no sex for $. I might see her Tuesday just to get my hands on her amazing body. Sometime (but rarely) you can convert a HJ or BJ only date to something more down the road. She only lives 3 minutes from me so that's helpful. Also going to look at a tiny but perfect single to use as an FC that's only 10 minutes from me. I miss out on too many opportunities due to not wanting to take a strange girl to my place. And I like a lot of nando 1 girls. Just to hookup. So I am checking into it. 7 to 8 hundred a month. I may try it for a year. My home is kind of homey plus I have a kid. Sometimes a place like this can amp up the sexiness of the date, as obviously there is only one reason to be there.

Also got an offer for FS from a white 24 year old utr I did like 3 years ago. But she is not really my type. A little tall and heavier than I like.[/QUOTE]I'm setting up the same, but with my RV. And it's not a "camper" it's late model luxury cruiser with two slides all the amenities of a penthouse on wheels. Going to sign on to a resort style RV park and bring my dates there. This will cut down on the expensive hotels and hopefully they are willing to dine and drink with me there. Of the few girls I've had in, they LOVED it! I even met one in a Walmart parking lot once and banged her there, with all the shoppers walking by. Curtains closed, slides out, generator and AC running. She got a huge thrill out of having sex with shoppers literally feet away who were clueless. LOL.

I have a few questions about abbreviations and yes, I read the forum and abbreviation chart and these are not on there. UTR, BC and nando 1 definitions?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2115776]Kinda slow lately. The best I could come up with this week was a smoking hot 18 year old that offered a HJ but no sex for $. I might see her Tuesday just to get my hands on her amazing body. Sometime (but rarely) you can convert a HJ or BJ only date to something more down the road. She only lives 3 minutes from me so that's helpful. Also going to look at a tiny but perfect single to use as an FC that's only 10 minutes from me. I miss out on too many opportunities due to not wanting to take a strange girl to my place. And I like a lot of nando 1 girls. Just to hookup. So I am checking into it. 7 to 8 hundred a month. I may try it for a year. My home is kind of homey plus I have a kid. Sometimes a place like this can amp up the sexiness of the date, as obviously there is only one reason to be there.
[/QUOTE]Your post gave me a great idea. SugarDaddy timeshare rentals, complete with online FC booking / scheduling. Where do I sign up?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2115831]Your post gave me a great idea. SugarDaddy timeshare rentals, complete with online FC booking / scheduling. Where do I sign up?[/QUOTE]Who has to change the sheets?

So the girl who texted me to come on over the other night when I was out with "good girl" with no FC visit, invited me over this morning. We texted and she was open for sex. I asked her if she would like me to bring some drinks. She texts me back what type of drinks she likes, but technically never said, yea or nay to drinking. So I took that she had texted me what she liked, as a token to bring some drinks. So I stop and buy a few rounds. Go to her house way out in the middle of fucking nowhere. She opens the door in a bathrobe and shakes my hand. She is a bit heavier then she lead me to believe, but still doable as we agreed to $200 for three hours of afternoon playtime.

So I walk in and set the drinks on her coffee table, and just like your ex wife of twenty years, complete with hands on the hips and that "tone" us old formerly married mongers know all too well, she says, "what the hell is that, you do realize it's 2 pm in the afternoon, a bit early for drinking don't you think? I'm not some drunk you know" I left the drinks on her coffee table, smiled at her, said "have a nice day" and walked right the fuck out.

Get home and the "good girl" I saw the evening before texts me and said she wants to go out again, she liked me and would be ok with going to the FC after another date.

WTF? Women, even young they are confusing. The sure bet, turned into nothing and the one I thought I could never tap, is now a sure deal. LOL.