"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2094434]If she meets me for lunch or something, I'm trying to decide on what to give her. I kind of hate to give her cash and reinforce the P word. I'm thinking maybe a vanilla card with credits as a gift for school.

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm running into a problem. I can't get to all the girls I've been talking to and it seems like many are dropping me cause I can't show up. Kind of like they think I'm full of shit and I'm just wasting their time for photos and shit. Any advice on how to set the hook?

Skin.[/QUOTE]Congrats on being able to keep the line of communication open. I'd recommend cutting back on the apologies though. Fine line between seeming apologetic and seeming sappy.

Have she mentioned any interests in any of the conversations? It'd be great if you could get her a thoughtful gift based off something she mentioned, even if it was brief and minor. Besides the sentimental aspect, it'll probably be cheaper too. If you were to get her a book related to an interest or some other product, you'd be out only .2 or .3 rather than $ on a gift card.

Not sure how to deal with your schedule. Depending on just how much free time you usually have, even a quick 1 hour /30 min set aside for a drink / coffee could let them know you're serious and not just a looky loo. Hope others have better advice on that.

Keep us posted on the hunt.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2095593]You know, when a girl is not interested in me, I quickly lose interest in her. And it's not like I am not gettin any. Watch Don Jon. Interesting movie. If that didn't make her want to fuck me, I don't know what. She probably wanted to fuck him.[/QUOTE]I guess I could relate if that was the case, because all I could think about when I saw it was how I'd like to stuff it in Scarlett Johannson.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2095626]I guess I could relate if that was the case, because all I could think about when I saw it was how I'd like to stuff it in Scarlett Johannson.[/QUOTE]Usually watching any movie with even the slightest sexual content makes girls horney.

So the little suburban girl is a bit lost in the big city. I blew off an unexpected trip to the FC (showing her all the txt's) with a confident 22 year old and let her stay another day. She did warm up to me a little after that, but in the end I went down in flames.

I got to feel a bit of her charms but nothing to convince me to let her stay any longer. So just another day of feeding her and hoping to get lucky. Tomorrow I am going for the gold with the 18 year old UTR girl I saw last week. And maybe see my MILF on the way home.

Like I said in a prior post I am reaching a little to get the true NP first timer. And she is. I just didn't get her. The one that offered to come over today was one that turned me down 2 months ago. She would also have been a first timer, so I asked why the change of heart. She admitted to finally bagging a $$$$ date. But it was just like I told her, these guys overpay for a reason.

So she said doing me for a $ didn't seem like such a bad way to pass the time after all. But I missed my shot with her so maybe in another week.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2096048]So the little suburban girl is a bit lost in the big city. I blew off an unexpected trip to the FC (showing her all the txt's) with a confident 22 year old and let her stay another day. She did warm up to me a little after that, but in the end I went down in flames.

[/QUOTE]So I have been trying Hollywood's allowance schedule and am striking out across the board. I just can't pay what I used to. I have a few possibilities so I will see. If I could date in the open and expose these Babies to more than a FC visit I'm sure I would have more luck. This is truly a rich man's game. I would like to be rich again.

Everyone has their own version of what a 10 is.

This is only for my version. Mixed or AA petite spinners. 18 to 22 year old NP's. Minimum 1 hour for a first date.

10's - 98%.

09's - 97%.

08's - 90%.

07's - 87%.

06's - 80%.

05's - 75%.

If I did the percentage for UTR girls only, the turn down rate would be about 75% overall. Maybe less. With a very low turn down rate even for 7's. Maybe 50%. And I have had many 9's for that $.

For pros (meaning they advertise on escort sites) there really is no turn down rate as the average donation per half hour for covered FS is $. No matter how hot they are. But I rarely if ever go down that road.

The girl pictured below finally left. After spending a total of 3 days (which included 2 overnites), plus a 6 hour date and a 2 hour date with her which cost me $.75 total (basically just feeding her), I couldn't get her to agree to my plans for her. And neither did any other guy. I doubt I will go to that extreme to convert any other girl anytime soon.

In response to my $ offer. 23.5"0' petite cutie nearby.

Very detailed and nice!!

I love passionate (you fill in the blanks).

I'm interested and want to know, where do I sign up!?

Will I see her. After some due diligence maybe. Monday and the replies are coming in.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2095446]I am such a nice guy. I did a failed M & G with this 19 year old girl a week ago. I had already moved on from even thinking about her and she called about noon and said she got kicked out of her moms. So I felt sorry for her and let her stay over. Just fed her some fast food, candy and ice cream.

We hung out all day then watched a couple movies and went to bed. No kissing or anything else.
Too bad because she is more than cute enough to bang. 5'7" and 117.

Suburban not urban. Educated and smells good. Not sure what's going to happen today. Nothing sexual that's for sure.

I offered to pay for her time, but she is not interested. Platonic sleepovers are not my thing,
I don't need company that bad, even for free.[/QUOTE]I can see hanging around a hottie like her, but with no apparent hope of a sleep in (the vagina) why would you waste any more time? I bet it was the challenge of the unobtainable. You thought you could break her down with your steely resolve. At least a feel up or a massage would have been nice. She owes you big time. Maybe she could refer her friends.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2097307]I can see hanging around a hottie like her, but with no apparent hope of a sleep in (the vagina) why would you waste any more time? I bet it was the challenge of the unobtainable. You thought you could break her down with your steely resolve. At least a feel up or a massage would have been nice. She owes you big time. Maybe she could refer her friends.[/QUOTE]On sat we did cuddle for an hour or so. I felt her nice ass, legs and loved her tiny waist. But it was predicated on her going for the gold. Which she declined. I was a little bored with not much to do and she was a real first timer. Very clean and intelligent. It was an experiment to see what she was all about, get some psychological intel on the mindset of these types of girls. Usually I just go straight to the FC. I don't really negotiate. So I thought I would give it a try. And try something different. But there are too many willing girls out there. This was more like civi dating. She made it pretty clear that if she wanted to fuck me it would be because she was hot for me, and not the money. Guess I wasnt her type.

Now I remember why I don't civi date anymore. And hope to get lucky. I'd rather make my own luck.

Summer is here and things are getting busier. My dancer pot went radio silent after what I thought was a nice meeting. Texted her a couple of times, nothing, so I'm moving on. My newlywed baby is coming over for a nooner, and I just got a call from a 36 year old recently divorced blond who I've been emailing. She is brand new and in her profile she just talks about wanting nails / shoe shopping etc. I'm not sure what to expect from her, I think she wants to be a bad girl and explore her new found freedom. She invited me over to a local resort where she is hanging by the pool with a couple of her girlfriends this afternoon. That ought to be an interesting M&G! I decided, what the heck, after I get done with my regular baby and send her on her way, I might go over and buy them drinks at the pool. We'll see what comes of it.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2097338]Summer is here and things are getting busier. My dancer pot went radio silent after what I thought was a nice meeting. Texted her a couple of times, nothing, so I'm moving on. My newlywed baby is coming over for a nooner, and I just got a call from a 36 year old recently divorced blond who I've been emailing. She is brand new and in her profile she just talks about wanting nails / shoe shopping etc. I'm not sure what to expect from her, I think she wants to be a bad girl and explore her new found freedom. She invited me over to a local resort where she is hanging by the pool with a couple of her girlfriends this afternoon. That ought to be an interesting M&G! I decided, what the heck, after I get done with my regular baby and send her on her way, I might go over and buy them drinks at the pool. We'll see what comes of it.[/QUOTE]Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097364]Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.[/QUOTE]I usually am all about the 23 year olds...this woman is my "type" (petite blond spinner), but older. Some guys have discussed the advantages of 30 somethings, so after she messaged me I wanted to give it a try. I will be trying to get the goods without going to deep into the sugar budget.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097364]Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.[/QUOTE]I could write a book on the subject of shopping and what it means to women (which of course translates into SD tactics). You're absolutely right that you never want to actually take them shopping, but just understanding that it taps into something at the core of femininity and leveraging that to your advantage can pay off big time.

A large number of them fantasize about a man taking them shopping. Partially because of the idea of an unlimited spending spree they have in their mind, but also because of the psychological aspect. They know that very few men have the patience to follow them from store to store as they try stuff on, giving feedback on what looks good on them, let alone pull out their wallet and buy for her what she picked out. Because of this, it makes any man who can do it (without constantly sighing / taking deep breaths / rubbing their eyes in frustration and to stay awake, or just fucking losing it altogether and yelling) a VERY rare find. Because of the rarity of the find, it makes that man an idol of sorts (perhaps an unachievable one in most of the reality these girls live in, but they can dream can't they? In the mind of many women and true SBs, this scenario is way more attractive than cash, because it not only satisfies their financial need, but gives them the feeling of control they crave (because it would mean we're such a wuss that we'd be willing to follow them around and buy them whatever they want) as well as making us someone they can see themselves spending a lot of time with; suddenly we've gone from being out of their preferred dating age range to being soul mate material to them!!

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

An example was a civvy date find that just liked older men. She had another guy competing for her attention that was closer to her age and while I had gone out with her a couple of times, even gotten some DFK and groping on more than one occasion, she was gradually falling in love with him (something I wasn't even trying to offer since I was in love with someone else anyway) and it was starting to look unlikely that she would ever let me fuck her. So one day I said that I was going to take her on a shopping spree for her birthday (IMPORTANT POINT -- Her birthday was 2+ months away! Everything about how she saw me changed at that point and that was all it took to get the pendulum swinging in my direction. No, I never took her shopping. Her personality and mine were so incompatible that she should have known we wouldn't even be talking 2 months later. But I got what I wanted, and I no longer felt cheated about the times I had taken her out to dinner (2 or 3 times) and got nothing in return. And, she never held any resentment for me because for all she knew I really did have intentions of taking her shopping at some later date, things just panned out the way they were destined to anyway. We parted on good terms.

The best analogy I can think of is if you found a girl who is a hot looking virgin (remember what I said about rarity) , but gives you reason to believe you're going to be the one to get it. Imagine the negotiating position that puts her in to let you fantasize that its really going to happen as long as you don't screw it up. Same kind of thing, that's how they see a daddy that's willing to take them shopping. But of course if the shopping fantasy is fulfilled first, there's little motivation for them to perform in return, so it must be used as incentive.

I will say that not every woman cares about shopping. I've met a couple of SBs who didn't really care about shopping or even money, they wanted someone they can travel to exotics places with. So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL

You ever been with a hot young thing in the changing room at a Victoria Secret? I can just say it is incredible mental foreplay for both of you.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2097461]I could write a book on the subject of shopping and what it means to women (which of course translates into SD tactics). You're absolutely right that you never want to actually take them shopping, but just understanding that it taps into something at the core of femininity and leveraging that to your advantage can pay off big time.

A large number of them fantasize about a man taking them shopping. Partially because of the idea of an unlimited spending spree they have in their mind, but also because of the psychological aspect. They know that very few men have the patience to follow them from store to store as they try stuff on, giving feedback on what looks good on them, let alone pull out their wallet and buy for her what she picked out. Because of this, it makes any man who can do it (without constantly sighing / taking deep breaths / rubbing their eyes in frustration and to stay awake, or just fucking losing it altogether and yelling) a VERY rare find. Because of the rarity of the find, it makes that man an idol of sorts (perhaps an unachievable one in most of the reality these girls live in, but they can dream can't they? In the mind of many women and true SBs, this scenario is way more attractive than cash, because it not only satisfies their financial need, but gives them the feeling of control they crave (because it would mean we're such a wuss that we'd be willing to follow them around and buy them whatever they want) as well as making us someone they can see themselves spending a lot of time with; suddenly we've gone from being out of their preferred dating age range to being soul mate material to them!!

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

An example was a civvy date find that just liked older men. She had another guy competing for her attention that was closer to her age and while I had gone out with her a couple of times, even gotten some DFK and groping on more than one occasion, she was gradually falling in love with him (something I wasn't even trying to offer since I was in love with someone else anyway) and it was starting to look unlikely that she would ever let me fuck her. So one day I said that I was going to take her on a shopping spree for her birthday (IMPORTANT POINT -- Her birthday was 2+ months away! Everything about how she saw me changed at that point and that was all it took to get the pendulum swinging in my direction. No, I never took her shopping. Her personality and mine were so incompatible that she should have known we wouldn't even be talking 2 months later. But I got what I wanted, and I no longer felt cheated about the times I had taken her out to dinner (2 or 3 times) and got nothing in return. And, she never held any resentment for me because for all she knew I really did have intentions of taking her shopping at some later date, things just panned out the way they were destined to anyway. We parted on good terms.

The best analogy I can think of is if you found a girl who is a hot looking virgin (remember what I said about rarity) , but gives you reason to believe you're going to be the one to get it. Imagine the negotiating position that puts her in to let you fantasize that its really going to happen as long as you don't screw it up. Same kind of thing, that's how they see a daddy that's willing to take them shopping. But of course if the shopping fantasy is fulfilled first, there's little motivation for them to perform in return, so it must be used as incentive.

I will say that not every woman cares about shopping. I've met a couple of SBs who didn't really care about shopping or even money, they wanted someone they can travel to exotics places with. So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL[/QUOTE]I agree with you 100%... I guess I am just less of a game player. No offense. But I really try to stay on point. My pleasure, her reward. In the past I actually made that a topic of conversation right off the bat. Not anymore.