"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2092112]
What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?[/QUOTE]I'd keep the status quo except I'd try to minimize the real connection that's forming -- you're already getting the best she has to offer, connecting emotionally won't make the sex cheaper and only increases risk to your marriage and family. I personally wouldn't let myself get connected (I had one a couple of months ago that was a real risk for that and I had to send her away), but if she's getting connected in a one sided way I would do whatever I can to put some distance in between.

It's 100 degrees out today.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2092632]It's 100 degrees out today.[/QUOTE]I know you work hard for what you enjoy, but none the less, I must say 'you are one lucky guy'.

All the best, #4025.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2092632]It's 100 degrees out today.[/QUOTE]What a beauty.

I either need to go to the same SD school that you went, or pack up and move into your neighborhood. LOL.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2092112]A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.[/QUOTE]I ALWAYS tell every new POT that I am a married man, with kids, and have a professional career. Then I tell them that I expect the utmost discretion from them. Majority of the time, it works very well. I am able to schedule FC actions on the first meet. I rarely do M&G in public places. I occasionally do M&G at a hotel in private, and we know where that leads.

Sometimes, and on very rare occasions, do I have a POT walk because of issues with morals and something about not wanting to break up a family. LOL.

But for the younger POTs, it sometimes work wonders. It turns them on even more. The thoughts of fooling around with a married man and getting fucked crazy by one would send them into overdrive.

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;2093096]What a beauty.

I either need to go to the same SD school that you went, or pack up and move into your neighborhood. LOL.[/QUOTE]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;2093101]I ALWAYS tell every new POT that I am a married man, with kids, and have a professional career. Then I tell them that I expect the utmost discretion from them. Majority of the time, it works very well. I am able to schedule FC actions on the first meet. I rarely do M&G in public places. I occasionally do M&G at a hotel in private, and we know where that leads.

Sometimes, and on very rare occasions, do I have a POT walk because of issues with morals and something about not wanting to break up a family. LOL.

But for the younger POTs, it sometimes work wonders. It turns them on even more. The thoughts of fooling around with a married man and getting fucked crazy by one would send them into overdrive.[/QUOTE]This has been my exact experience. I often do M&G at a hotel. I've had a few Pots (usually Asian) get skittish with messing around with a married man, but the vast majority of college girls don't have a problem with it at all. I often hear from them, "I admire you that you work so hard for your family.", "It turns me on that you're such a great father", and etc. You got to also remember a lot of these girls have daddy issues...

But I hear some of you guys about the risk of emotional involvement. However with my CL Teacher SB, while I enjoy talking to her as well as fucking her hot body, I have no desire whatsoever to run away with her or any of that sort. Even if I wasn't married, I probably would just have a short-term civy relationship, but nothing really serious. She'd make a perfect Fuck Buddy or FWB who happens to be hot as hell. We can hang out and talk for hours, but we're not super lovey-dovy.

Actually another motive for telling her I'm married and have kids is to make sure to reaffirm the boundaries. I can't be her boyfriend, so I don't want her to start expecting that. I do want to be good friends and have our own special relationship but with realistic expectations. My main concern is that I could scare her off for "moral" reasons, although that seems unlikely since she's a pretty open-minded girl. The other concern is since she's local, am I prepared for her to find out my identity. I'm always careful, but I also assume any girl I see consistently for over 6 months, will likely figure out my identity with or without my knowledge one way or another.

I know I take a slightly different attitude than others here, but any girl I see consistently for more than 6 months has already been fully vetted by then. I know a lot of her personal info & background, I know if she's a psycho or not. So I'm actually okay if my long-term SB knows my real identity. By then there's usually enough mutually assured destruction that neither one of us will step too far out of line. And the best way to break up with a long-term SD is to gradually have money and time problems, so they breakup with you or just drift apart. This way there's no animosity and it'll be a relatively peaceful break.

I think the black ops cover is primary for the first 3-4 months. By then you should know if they're a Nando1, Psycho, or Clingy. None of these girls should ever have your real identity, so if you see them beyond 6 months, it should be infrequent booty calls at privacy friendly hotels in full black ops cover. But like I said, I assume if you see a girl at least 3 times a month for 6 months, she'll probably know who you are. In that time, you would have seen her 18-20 times, the chances you would have slipped up in your cover at least a couple of times is pretty high. That's why I tend to force retire most SBs after 4-5 months unless I feel they're stable enough to know my identity whether they figure it out or not. We sometimes over-estimate how strong our cover is. So I just go in with the built-in assumption that my cover expires after 6 months and I'm not fully protected at that point.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2093171]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.[/QUOTE]Your Wednesday girl is amazing. Well done my man.

As much as I wish I could say I offer girls killer sex, I'm afraid I can't. After over a decade of boring married sex followed by mechanical escort / AMP sex, my sex skills unfortunately are nothing remarkable. I do benefit from being in shape and having a good-sized schlong, but right now I could not make killer sex has a selling point. The sugar bowl especially last year has helped me some get back in my groove. But it's still highly chemistry dependent. With some girls I rock out strong and we have amazing sex. Other girls the chemistry isn't there and I might have performance issues, and in those situations aside from DATY I don't have enough tricks to fall back on to get her off.

Hoping over time, the Sugar Bowl will help me get back some real raw sexual experience. But the only downside to primarily dating 18-24 year-olds, is that they're isn't a ton of sexual experienced to be gained from them, LOL. It's the MILFs who are the ones who really know what to do but they often have little interest in me due to the closeness in age. Though I guess I could give civy dating a try for women my age, not sure if it's worth the hassle though and I'm really addicted to 18-24 year-old hard bodies right now. When you've had a steady diet of college girls it's really hard to find anything else appetizing.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2093172]This has been my exact experience. I often do M&G at a hotel. I've had a few Pots (usually Asian) get skittish with messing around with a married man, but the vast majority of college girls don't have a problem with it at all. I often hear from them, "I admire you that you work so hard for your family.", "It turns me on that you're such a great father", and etc. You got to also remember a lot of these girls have daddy issues...
. We sometimes over-estimate how strong our cover is. So I just go in with the built-in assumption that my cover expires after 6 months and I'm not fully protected at that point.[/QUOTE]I reiterate the risk of your SO and the SB's SO and not just the SB. Most babies have a BF or husband, even if they say not. My SO blew my gig up and created a huge mess for me. I think a lot of former (now retired) Brothers ran afoul of this when discovered. The choice is a nasty divorce or put your head down and get the nose chain back in pace.

Also, the SB's BF. My recently flaked SB came over for her weekly fucking about 6 weeks ago. She was pretty severely beat up and to her credit she showed up and delivered. The poor thing was so sore I had to be gentle and rush through things to get my Nutt. She got hers too in spite of it. She claimed her roommate's BF did it to her but in retrospect I think she had a live-in BF she was stepping out on for a few extra bucks.(maybe a pimp?) Maybe I wasn't the only one. (you think LOL?) Right before she went dark she said that she was injured falling down the stairs. Riiiight! It was then clear to me that she is being abused and I wish her the best in getting out of that situation. Hopefully my "advance" helped her get away.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2092632]It's 100 degrees out today.[/QUOTE]Again you rock brother! You are the Microsoft of Sugaring.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2093171]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.[/QUOTE]Focusing ads on the sexual fantasy is actually a really good angle. It seems almost counter-intuitive that this would produce as many bites as it does, but from the girls perspective it actually helps her justify what she's doing somewhat (it's only playing around, it's not real, so no need for her to evaluate whether she should be doing it or not from the moral perspective).

There is an entirely different category of SB, though, that is less able to disassociate their real self with sexual play. Some of them are just genuinely attracted to moderate to high-income older guys and see the SD sites as a good place to find their next boyfriend.

For those lucky enough to live in a metro area of around 5 million or more, there's probably enough volume of both types to support bulk mailing them with either approach, and still getting enough bites to keep a person busy. Those like me have to span multiple cities just to even reach that many girls, and even then the collective volume doesn't produce the same results as big cities, because the entire vibe of sexual openness changes for the girl once you put her in a closer knit environment where she feels less anonymous, more noticed and less absorbed by the big city glamour. The other bad part about finding girls in other cities is that many of them see you're not close by and see it as too much trouble / waste of time. I try to help with that by explaining early in my contact mail that I can come to them no problem. It's also a lot of work to search multiple cities and juggle custom searches for each city.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2093319]Again you rock brother! You are the Microsoft of Sugaring.[/QUOTE]Check out christophe 1 on the L.A. Threads. Not so much a sugar guy. But if you read all his posts there is some very valuable info.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2093360]Focusing ads on the sexual fantasy is actually a really good angle. It seems almost counter-intuitive that this would produce as many bites as it does, but from the girls perspective it actually helps her justify what she's doing somewhat (it's only playing around, it's not real, so no need for her to evaluate whether she should be doing it or not from the moral perspective).

There is an entirely different category of SB, though, that is less able to disassociate their real self with sexual play. Some of them are just genuinely attracted to moderate to high-income older guys and see the SD sites as a good place to find their next boyfriend.

For those lucky enough to live in a metro area of around 5 million or more, there's probably enough volume of both types to support bulk mailing them with either approach, and still getting enough bites to keep a person busy. Those like me have to span multiple cities just to even reach that many girls, and even then the collective volume doesn't produce the same results as big cities, because the entire vibe of sexual openness changes for the girl once you put her in a closer knit environment where she feels less anonymous, more noticed and less absorbed by the big city glamour. The other bad part about finding girls in other cities is that many of them see you're not close by and see it as too much trouble / waste of time. I try to help with that by explaining early in my contact mail that I can come to them no problem. It's also a lot of work to search multiple cities and juggle custom searches for each city.[/QUOTE]The thing is, I just don't have time to waste. I have a few special needs in the sex dept and I am only interested in girls with similar needs. Those needs sometimes create a special bond that can turn into something more. And I like to start out on the same page. Of course there are girls that just don't think hooking up is a big deal. And they can also lead to one night stands. My super hot latina NP score from a few weeks ago. Long gone. I know her desire for a certain sex act is way too strong for her to ignore. She is probably just giving it away for free to some lucky young guy, now that I showed her how awesome it could be in general.

NP's are drawn to these fantasies and I love to be the first guy to give it to them. But if I only waited to be the first I could have some dry spells. So I continue to go from pro to NP and the many shades in between. Even after a year my ATF gets to experience something new on a regular basis as she was practically a virgin when i met her. Women are actually far kinkier than men in general and love a guy that can get them relaxed enough to let loose. This is why I love the $ date. At that price no girl is going to do anything kinky (or maybe even have vanilla sex) unless there is a physical attraction. I am sure I could get any girl to do anything for $$$. No real thrill in that. This is a generalization overall. Maybe an 80/20 rule.

Some of these may be voyeurism, older/younger, fetishes, rape fantasies, S/m, bondage, bi, and the list goes on. I always try to make this a part of any first date to stand out from the crowd. One reason I mostly date 18 to 22. At that age what they may lack in experience they more than make up for in curiosity. If they are older they may (and i repeat may) have already tried a lot of things. The upside is if they have and they are into it, then their skill level will be higher. The other upside is if you are hitting up older girls, they may already know if they like or dislike a certain scene and just pass you by if they don't. So no time wasted. And they would never do something they didn't like for $. At $$$ you will never know whether it was you or the cash they liked better.

More 80/20 on the $ rule. There is the chance they just dont know they can get paid more or they are just desperate for cash right now. But I am assuming the guys on this thread are looking for more than just cheap pussy and are hoping for an emotion connection even if it is only a fantasy while doing the deed.

So I hit the 22 year old Latina spinner with the blunt truth after she propositioned me with the 1 k needed for one visit. Some time goes by and I text her "I guess this means you are not interested" since she hadn't replied.

Two hours later she replies that she hasn't done this much and this isn't what she was used to getting, but she would see me the next day. Haha.

But, alas, it wasn't meant to be. Four hours later she texts me telling me she was a good girl and she was too pretty to be fucking random dudes for money and she didn't know why she came to see me. So I say ok.

This morning I text her and tell her I had a bad day at office yesterday and took some of my frustration out on her and I apologize for my language. She replies it's okay.

I check on SA and her account has been deleted. I text her that I really liked her and would still like to buy her lunch. Every thing would be innocent. No word yet.

I've been beating myself up. I shouldn't have hit her with the truth so much and so brutal. I should have worked her some.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2093844]So I hit the 22 year old Latina spinner with the blunt truth after she propositioned me with the 1 k needed for one visit. Some time goes by and I text her "I guess this means you are not interested" since she hadn't replied.

Two hours later she replies that she hasn't done this much and this isn't what she was used to getting, but she would see me the next day. Haha.

But, alas, it wasn't meant to be. Four hours later she texts me telling me she was a good girl and she was too pretty to be fucking random dudes for money and she didn't know why she came to see me. So I say ok.

This morning I text her and tell her I had a bad day at office yesterday and took some of my frustration out on her and I apologize for my language. She replies it's okay.

I check on SA and her account has been deleted. I text her that I really liked her and would still like to buy her lunch. Every thing would be innocent. No word yet.

I've been beating myself up. I shouldn't have hit her with the truth so much and so brutal. I should have worked her some.[/QUOTE]She's already struggling with the "P" word. Telling her she is overpriced is telling her she is a cheap "P." It's much better to go dark.