"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Using the SA App, if they swipe right, it will fav you without them looking at your profile.

[QUOTE=BobbyRichmond;4083013]I have a person who favorited me with out actually viewing me. Is that possible?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4086531]

Guys with lots of game find it very hard to believe that any SD would give a girl thousands per month in cash and gifts (but they are out there). Guys without game who haven't had much luck getting pussy without paying for it, believe that all SBs are hookers.

The reality of it is that the range of personalities and human behaviors is beyond the comprehension of most people.

The reality is that the spectrum of SBs can run the gamut from full-on escorts at one side of the extreme, to girls with very little sexual experience at the other end of the extreme. Anyone who doesn't understand that is not experienced enough in the lifestyle for their opinions to be taken seriously on any level.

[/QUOTE]This is my first post, and I would like to first thank JZLizard and all the bros on here for the invaluable education. The advice on here helped save me lots of wasted time and money. I have been on SA for about four months, so compared to some of the guys on here, I am a total newbie, but I can say that it works!

I have been married for many years, so my game was pretty rusty. But I've basically been batting 1000 on SA. I have only done two meet and greets that didn't lead to the FC, most of them on first meeting, the rest on the second. The two that didn't go anywhere were my choice. One was a transsexual who had posted someone else's photos. I had arranged a coffee meet at a time and place that was convenient for me, and they actually bought their own coffee. So I was out no money and little time, although the encounter did sort of ruin my day. The other one was a college freshman who had gained the "freshman 15" or maybe the "freshman 25" since her photos were taken so I just didn't want to bother.

I have taken nine SB's to the FC, three of them multiple times. There could have been lots more with more time and money. I am 58, the youngest SB's were 19 (two of those), the oldest one was 27. (So far, the 18 year old unicorn has eluded me, but I'm not complaining.) All nice looking girls and some of them incredibly hot. The worst sex I've had was still great, and the best was up there with the best experiences of my life, and there have been a lot.

The most amazing thing to me is that out of nine girls who have been to the FC, six of them did not set a price or talk about money at all first. Unbelievable! I suppose I could have stiffed them (after giving them my stiffie) but I have never done that. I always slipped cash into their purse or something afterwards. I know what I am paying is on the low end of the range for my area, and yet most of them are happy to come back for more. (One girl did send me a nastygram text afterwards complaining about the amount, but not before I had spent a memorable afternoon enjoying her undivided attention and a body that was at least a 9. 5.) The three who did bring up money first all accepted my offer without negotiation. Right now I am seeing two of the best of the nine on a fairly regular basis, while I continue to scout for new talent. My standards for new talent have gotten pretty high.

I would rate myself as looking average for my age. I used to be pretty good looking, but years have taken their toll. I go to the gym regularly and am more fit than average for my age. I feel my game online is weak. The whole internet dating thing, and even the texting thing, came along after my time. However, I think my game in person is tops. In my view, the cash is sort of ancillary. The girls need it, and I am happy to provide it. But the SB's I like are regular college girls, not pros, and its not simply a matter of paying them. You need to talk your way into their pants. This is something I've done my whole life, and I enjoy it. Bottom line, if I can do it, most anyone can.

Many have complained here about the investment of time required, and in my experience it does take a lot time. My response percentage is tiny. But, my God, it is time spent searching out pretty young girls online, comparing their photos and deciding which girls are the choicest, and flirting with them, first online and then in person. Is that "work"? Not in my view. It's an enjoyable hobby in itself. Of course, its made more enjoyable with the anticipation of eventually seeing them on their knees sucking my dick and the knowledge that enough of them will. The sex with these girls is incomparably better than with pros and makes it all worthwhile. I've had lots of hobbies, and have spent plenty on them over the years. This hobby has given my far more pleasure than any of them.

So yeah, there are all manner of girls on SA. Tons of garden variety pros. Lot of gold diggers. A surprising number of girls who seem to view it as "just a dating site. " Some of them actually claim to be "marriage-minded. " You can find just about any kind of girl you want on there and plenty you don't want. Lots of them I wouldn't fuck with your dick. But my God, there are some real gems among them, and some of them can be persuaded to give you anything you want, just the way you want it, and seem delighted to do so! I swear I feel like I'm acting in a porn film sometimes.

Viva SA!

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4092159]This is my first post, and I would like to first thank JZLizard and all the bros on here for the invaluable education. The advice on here helped save me lots of wasted time and money. I have been on SA for about four months, so compared to some of the guys on here, I am a total newbie, but I can say that it works!

I have been married for many years, so my game was pretty rusty. But I've basically been batting 1000 on SA. I have only done two meet and greets that didn't lead to the FC, most of them on first meeting, the rest on the second. The two that didn't go anywhere were my choice. One was a transsexual who had posted someone else's photos. I had arranged a coffee meet at a time and place that was convenient for me, and they actually bought their own coffee. So I was out no money and little time, although the encounter did sort of ruin my day. The other one was a college freshman who had gained the "freshman 15" or maybe the "freshman 25" since her photos were taken so I just didn't want to bother.

I have taken nine SB's to the FC, three of them multiple times. There could have been lots more with more time and money. I am 58, the youngest SB's were 19 (two of those), the oldest one was 27. (So far, the 18 year old unicorn has eluded me, but I'm not complaining.) All nice looking girls and some of them incredibly hot. The worst sex I've had was still great, and the best was up there with the best experiences of my life, and there have been a lot.

The most amazing thing to me is that out of nine girls who have been to the FC, six of them did not set a price or talk about money at all first. Unbelievable! I suppose I could have stiffed them (after giving them my stiffie) but I have never done that. I always slipped cash into their purse or something afterwards. I know what I am paying is on the low end of the range for my area, and yet most of them are happy to come back for more. (One girl did send me a nastygram text afterwards complaining about the amount, but not before I had spent a memorable afternoon enjoying her undivided attention and a body that was at least a 9. 5.) The three who did bring up money first all accepted my offer without negotiation. Right now I am seeing two of the best of the nine on a fairly regular basis, while I continue to scout for new talent. My standards for new talent have gotten pretty high.

I would rate myself as looking average for my age. I used to be pretty good looking, but years have taken their toll. I go to the gym regularly and am more fit than average for my age. I feel my game online is weak. The whole internet dating thing, and even the texting thing, came along after my time. However, I think my game in person is tops. In my view, the cash is sort of ancillary. The girls need it, and I am happy to provide it. But the SB's I like are regular college girls, not pros, and its not simply a matter of paying them. You need to talk your way into their pants. This is something I've done my whole life, and I enjoy it. Bottom line, if I can do it, most anyone can.

Many have complained here about the investment of time required, and in my experience it does take a lot time. My response percentage is tiny. But, my God, it is time spent searching out pretty young girls online, comparing their photos and deciding which girls are the choicest, and flirting with them, first online and then in person. Is that "work"? Not in my view. It's an enjoyable hobby in itself. Of course, its made more enjoyable with the anticipation of eventually seeing them on their knees sucking my dick and the knowledge that enough of them will. The sex with these girls is incomparably better than with pros and makes it all worthwhile. I've had lots of hobbies, and have spent plenty on them over the years. This hobby has given my far more pleasure than any of them.

So yeah, there are all manner of girls on SA. Tons of garden variety pros. Lot of gold diggers. A surprising number of girls who seem to view it as "just a dating site. " Some of them actually claim to be "marriage-minded. " You can find just about any kind of girl you want on there and plenty you don't want. Lots of them I wouldn't fuck with your dick. But my God, there are some real gems among them, and some of them can be persuaded to give you anything you want, just the way you want it, and seem delighted to do so! I swear I feel like I'm acting in a porn film sometimes.

Viva SA![/QUOTE]Great first post! I agree that there are gems but definitely a ton that I wouldn't touch. I'm not on the site to fuck every girl I can although it's been an incredible year for me. A few bad ones, a ton of good ones, and plenty of amazing experiences with girls who are absolutely beautiful. Are you in the Richmond area?

[QUOTE=RVASpider;4093634]Great first post! I agree that there are gems but definitely a ton that I wouldn't touch. I'm not on the site to fuck every girl I can although it's been an incredible year for me. A few bad ones, a ton of good ones, and plenty of amazing experiences with girls who are absolutely beautiful. Are you in the Richmond area?[/QUOTE]I am not actually in the Richmond area. My area is much more expensive, so I didn't post any numbers and I won't be of use for referrals. I posted on the Richmond board because you guys seem to have the most active discussion of SB's and SA of any city in the country. Although details and prices will vary in different cities, there is a lot about the girls that I think won't change.

One thing I didn't mention in my previous post. I never negotiate or even discuss prices online. I now that is different from the preference of a lot of guys on here so I think it's worth mentioning. If a girl asks how much online, or quotes me a price, I pretty much cross them off my list. Sometimes I will keep talking to them online just for price research. A lot of girls I just tell, very nicely, that they are out my budget, but I don't counter offer. Quite a few of those end up negotiating against themselves and drop their ask, which I find amusing. I may eventually be tempted to hit one of those, but it hasn't happened yet.

To me, a true SB, or at least a SB that I want, is one that I can penetrate without talking price first.

I've had 4 arrangements that each lasted more than a year. Money was never discussed prior to first meet. We met the first time with no expectation of money or intimacy.

In each case, the chemistry and attraction was so strong we couldn't keep our hands off of each other and we had intimacy (mulitple times) that same night.

Even though we never discussed allowance, I slipped $'s in their pockey or purse before they left.

I still am in contact and remain friends with all of them.

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4093714]I am not actually in the Richmond area. My area is much more expensive, so I didn't post any numbers and I won't be of use for referrals. I posted on the Richmond board because you guys seem to have the most active discussion of SB's and SA of any city in the country. Although details and prices will vary in different cities, there is a lot about the girls that I think won't change.

One thing I didn't mention in my previous post. I never negotiate or even discuss prices online. I now that is different from the preference of a lot of guys on here so I think it's worth mentioning. If a girl asks how much online, or quotes me a price, I pretty much cross them off my list. Sometimes I will keep talking to them online just for price research. A lot of girls I just tell, very nicely, that they are out my budget, but I don't counter offer. Quite a few of those end up negotiating against themselves and drop their ask, which I find amusing. I may eventually be tempted to hit one of those, but it hasn't happened yet.

To me, a true SB, or at least a SB that I want, is one that I can penetrate without talking price first.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4092159]This is my first post, and I would like to first thank JZLizard and all the bros on here for the invaluable education. The advice on here helped save me lots of wasted time and money. I have been on SA for about four months, so compared to some of the guys on here, I am a total newbie, but I can say that it works!

I have been married for many years, so my game was pretty rusty. But I've basically been batting 1000 on SA. I have only done two meet and greets that didn't lead to the FC, most of them on first meeting, the rest on the second. The two that didn't go anywhere were my choice. One was a transsexual who had posted someone else's photos. I had arranged a coffee meet at a time and place that was convenient for me, and they actually bought their own coffee. So I was out no money and little time, although the encounter did sort of ruin my day. The other one was a college freshman who had gained the "freshman 15" or maybe the "freshman 25" since her photos were taken so I just didn't want to bother.

I have taken nine SB's to the FC, three of them multiple times. There could have been lots more with more time and money. I am 58, the youngest SB's were 19 (two of those), the oldest one was 27. (So far, the 18 year old unicorn has eluded me, but I'm not complaining.) All nice looking girls and some of them incredibly hot. The worst sex I've had was still great, and the best was up there with the best experiences of my life, and there have been a lot.

The most amazing thing to me is that out of nine girls who have been to the FC, six of them did not set a price or talk about money at all first. Unbelievable! I suppose I could have stiffed them (after giving them my stiffie) but I have never done that. I always slipped cash into their purse or something afterwards. I know what I am paying is on the low end of the range for my area, and yet most of them are happy to come back for more. (One girl did send me a nastygram text afterwards complaining about the amount, but not before I had spent a memorable afternoon enjoying her undivided attention and a body that was at least a 9. 5.) The three who did bring up money first all accepted my offer without negotiation. Right now I am seeing two of the best of the nine on a fairly regular basis, while I continue to scout for new talent. My standards for new talent have gotten pretty high.

I would rate myself as looking average for my age. I used to be pretty good looking, but years have taken their toll. I go to the gym regularly and am more fit than average for my age. I feel my game online is weak. The whole internet dating thing, and even the texting thing, came along after my time. However, I think my game in person is tops. In my view, the cash is sort of ancillary. The girls need it, and I am happy to provide it. But the SB's I like are regular college girls, not pros, and its not simply a matter of paying them. You need to talk your way into their pants. This is something I've done my whole life, and I enjoy it. Bottom line, if I can do it, most anyone can.

Many have complained here about the investment of time required, and in my experience it does take a lot time. My response percentage is tiny. But, my God, it is time spent searching out pretty young girls online, comparing their photos and deciding which girls are the choicest, and flirting with them, first online and then in person. Is that "work"? Not in my view. It's an enjoyable hobby in itself. Of course, its made more enjoyable with the anticipation of eventually seeing them on their knees sucking my dick and the knowledge that enough of them will. The sex with these girls is incomparably better than with pros and makes it all worthwhile. I've had lots of hobbies, and have spent plenty on them over the years. This hobby has given my far more pleasure than any of them.

So yeah, there are all manner of girls on SA. Tons of garden variety pros. Lot of gold diggers. A surprising number of girls who seem to view it as "just a dating site. " Some of them actually claim to be "marriage-minded. " You can find just about any kind of girl you want on there and plenty you don't want. Lots of them I wouldn't fuck with your dick. But my God, there are some real gems among them, and some of them can be persuaded to give you anything you want, just the way you want it, and seem delighted to do so! I swear I feel like I'm acting in a porn film sometimes.

[/QUOTE]Welcome, and I did want to say that if you stayed calmly at the table with the tranny that brought his own coffee, and wrapped that meet up politely, your patience for cat fishing is greater than mine will ever be. I guess I've been lucky that nothing like that has never happened in my M&Gs. I suspect the reason it hasn't might have something to do with the amount of online dating experience I had before the SD sites even came along. Dating sites came about around the same time I was divorcing my ex, and I watched them evolve from when a lot of women were apprehensive about meeting a stranger they met online in person, to an extremely common method of dating. I did get cat fished a few times during online civy dating, but so far it has never happened from an SD site (knock on wood), and while I did have one POT that was less attractive in person than her photos, it is usually actually the other way around with my meets (the photos don't do justice).

One reason might be that my instincts or process of elimination skills were well-developed from lots of civy online dating experiences. Some of the potential catfish or general photo-related warning signs I lookout for:

1. Many pics, but all taken from the same camera angle or the same circumstances -- often an indication of hiding something.

2. Little to no pics of butt / hips / legs, or all pics taken while they are standing to the side (kardashian-like centaur-bodies where their hips are disproportional can't be identified as well from side pics, but then again some guys like or even prefer centaur-bodied girls).

3. "Modified" pics (I. E. Snapchat) are understandable for public photos, but if she cannot provide pics privately that are unmodified, she is suspect.

4. Lighting of photo too soft (potentially using filters to hide skin problems).

5. Stripper photos -- not necessarily a warning sign but it puts me on alert for certain things. I'm a big fan of strippers and some of my best SBs were girls I met at a strip club, but I have found that employed strippers who join SD sites are a different game. They have experience extracting money from men, so some of them are hoping to tap into what they see as the "premium" market. My advice for guys who like strippers is to find them in strip clubs. Getting the one you want can be challenging, but I actually enjoy that challenge. Best part about in-person stripper hunting is you get to see what you're getting, almost fully naked even, before deciding if you want to proceed. Notice I said "stripper photos" though. If you meet an SB who happens to be a dancer, but is not using "stripper photos" to market herself online, she might be more likely to be capable of the "true" SB experience.

6. Original join date is not recent -- not necessarily a problem but I would confirm she is sending recent pics, she might have joined SA 4 years ago and already had two kids since, or became a consumer of junk food, etc.

Then there are non-visual warning signs that come from interactions with them, which some of my prior posts have delved into. It's a bit harder to make a useful list of these, because of course dialog and behavior is more complex to assess and harder to catalog than visuals in a photo.

Thanks for the tips, JZ! I have to admit the online "spidey sense" and online game are still a work in progress for me. Still, I feel that for a beginner, my batting average is great, and I am willing to put in the practice to get better!

With the tranny meet and greet, yes, I did stay calm. Was I pissed? Sure. But I just wanted to get out of there. I would have been a lot more pissed if I had gone out of my way to meet them or incurred expense.

With the "freshman 15" girl, it was a lot more complicated. She was actually a sweet girl, she just looked a lot less attractive than in her pics. I ended up buying her lunch while I thought about it. She was just 18 and very naive in an appealing way. If I had never seen her hot pics, I might have been willing to bang her in her chubby state. But having seen what she looked like before, I just couldn't get past it.

Both situations could have been avoided by asking them to send me a picture holding up a certain number of fingers, or a piece of paper with my username written on it or something. That is a common suggestion I have seen on this forum.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4074974]College aged girls have had to deal with this Generation-Z syndrome where the guys they know fall into specific buckets -- they guys they meet either grew up with "special snowflake syndrome", or they are an outright drug-addled moron. Add to that the "gender confusion" movement, where young males are penalized by the media for behaving like men or any other display of true masculinity. Movies, social media, even modern video games, more and more, are starting to portray women as not only the intellectually superior gender, but also the PHYSICALLY superior gender (I'll come back to this). Producers of this media are increasingly gay males (who could give a fuck one way or the other as long as there is enough shock value to sell tickets), so they create this fictitious image of bad-ass women, who go around karate-kicking and back-flipping their way out of fights with men carrying assault rifles.

While that kind of shit might strike a chord with a 12 year old girl, an 18-22 whose hormones and sex drive are starting to really kick in has usually had enough. I said I would come back to the statement above. While all of that sci-fi media portrayal shit is great for kids, these girls (who, as we know, DO mature emotionally faster than males) get to a point where the fiction isn't good enough anymore and they want something real. I hate to sound like Charlie Sheen here (LOL). But honestly I think the Gen-X male is "winning" from all of this if they possess the right characteristics.

Not all girls are born SB material. Mileage may vary, but my own observation has been that most SBs have daddy issues of one variety or another. The reason this lifestyle is becoming more prevalent is because the trend seems to be that the population of girls with daddy issues is ever-increasing.

Why is that? Not rocket science. Most of this can be traced back to the Equal Rights Amendment of the 70's. Lots of women back then opposed the movement, because they knew it would disrupt the family unit, resulting in a disruption of society that would ultimately break down the family unit in a way that America would never be able to adequately cope with. But, the ones in favor of the movement ultimately won out, saying society would adjust.

Both sides were right. America adapted to this by accepting the dissolution of traditional family roles as the norm. Fast forward and what is the net effect? More career women that have babies and raise them alone because they can, many of which have broken or non-existent relationships with their father. This creates fertile ground for the birth of enormous amounts of sugar babies, and there is no sign of it letting up any time soon (how could we reverse it, remove women's right to vote or work? LOL). Fundamentally, the girls born out of these conditions will always have a craving for older men. This makes the score -10 points for guys their age, and +10 for guys old enough to represent the father figure they long for. They certainly do sometimes struggle with issues of peer pressure in the college aged range, that makes them want to keep their secret craving private, but once they leave the "school yard gossip" scene and are fully immersed in adulthood (approx 25 years old and up), they no longer even care about this.

So basically, the next time you unload your wad deep into some college girl, take a moment to step back and thank the proponents of the ERA movement of the 70's. I know I can say without question, their actions, more than anyone, have blessed my life with unlimited access to prime quality pussy.[/QUOTE]Great posting.

The millennial generation of soy boys is frightening to observe, but very helpful to those of us over 40.

I've seen several posts on this subject; thought I'd share my experience. I'm hesitant to get on seeking--privacy and cost issues- so I've been on skout for a couple of years. It's a bit of a grind, but I've had some nice successes too.

I spent the morning with a 19 yo hard body Hispanic college girl. Total cost was 120 plus room. This was our second get together, and I plan to continue. She's got a gorgeous, tight body, perky full b / small c's, and she lets me do everything bare (my preference).

There are plenty of young women on skout who are looking for a sugar arrangement, you just have to weed through the fakes and the one's wanting money up front via cashapp or whatever, and the one's looking for actual dating.

She's not the first young hottie I've hooked up with from there. Point is, if you put in the time it's there. Good luck!

I agree with everyone downstream — these are two factors that I often look to for weeding out purposes. Agree with most of JZ's points (though I like curvy and even hourglass big so long as I know in advance). I also generally agree that discussing allowance up front is a red flag. However there are exceptions. Sometimes you need to talk the talk with a woman that is new to this to get her comfortable. I look at when and how the topic comes up. If it is in the first few messages I am usually done. If it is before we have moved to text and I have shared a pic I am usually done. I'm ok with it after we have had a real convo.

Switching gears, I just learned that a friend's 30 something daughter passed away suddenly, unexpectedly, and due to suicide. She fit the profile of a typical SB in many ways — outgoing, attractive, vivacious, yet also complicated, struggling, and living beyond her means. I say this just as a gentle reminder to us to be mindful of mental health as much as physical and emotional health.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;4097540] Switching gears, I just learned that a friend's 30 something daughter passed away suddenly, unexpectedly, and due to suicide. She fit the profile of a typical SB in many ways outgoing, attractive, vivacious, yet also complicated, struggling, and living beyond her means. I say this just as a gentle reminder to us to be mindful of mental health as much as physical and emotional health.[/QUOTE]I always make a genuine effort to leave them slightly better off than I found them. I almost always learn something about them and help them see something that's at the root of whatever issues they might be having, or share some life experience that gets them thinking in the right direction. Every now and then I will get a comment along the lines of "See, this is what I needed out of this. I never had anyone to even care enough to explain that to me" (in other words absent daddy syndrome, usually), and when I do get those comments it's very rewarding to hear. Whether or not the advice ever really impact their lives positively, I'll never know.

Every now and then I get a drama queen or some signs of stability issues. If it's something I'm unable to defuse or fix, I just make sure I don't aggravate the problem.

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4092159]This is my first post, and I would like to first thank JZLizard and all the bros on here for the invaluable education. The advice on here helped save me lots of wasted time and money. I have been on SA for about four months, so compared to some of the guys on here, I am a total newbie, but I can say that it works!

I have been married for many years, so my game was pretty rusty. But I've basically been batting 1000 on SA. I have only done two meet and greets that didn't lead to the FC, most of them on first meeting, the rest on the second. The two that didn't go anywhere were my choice. One was a transsexual who had posted someone else's photos. I had arranged a coffee meet at a time and place that was convenient for me, and they actually bought their own coffee. So I was out no money and little time, although the encounter did sort of ruin my day. The other one was a college freshman who had gained the "freshman 15" or maybe the "freshman 25" since her photos were taken so I just didn't want to bother.

I have taken nine SB's to the FC, three of them multiple times. There could have been lots more with more time and money. I am 58, the youngest SB's were 19 (two of those), the oldest one was 27. (So far, the 18 year old unicorn has eluded me, but I'm not complaining.) All nice looking girls and some of them incredibly hot. The worst sex I've had was still great, and the best was up there with the best experiences of my life, and there have been a lot.

The most amazing thing to me is that out of nine girls who have been to the FC, six of them did not set a price or talk about money at all first. Unbelievable! I suppose I could have stiffed them (after giving them my stiffie) but I have never done that. I always slipped cash into their purse or something afterwards. I know what I am paying is on the low end of the range for my area, and yet most of them are happy to come back for more. (One girl did send me a nastygram text afterwards complaining about the amount, but not before I had spent a memorable afternoon enjoying her undivided attention and a body that was at least a 9. 5.) The three who did bring up money first all accepted my offer without negotiation. Right now I am seeing two of the best of the nine on a fairly regular basis, while I continue to scout for new talent. My standards for new talent have gotten pretty high.

I would rate myself as looking average for my age. I used to be pretty good looking, but years have taken their toll. I go to the gym regularly and am more fit than average for my age. I feel my game online is weak. The whole internet dating thing, and even the texting thing, came along after my time. However, I think my game in person is tops. In my view, the cash is sort of ancillary. The girls need it, and I am happy to provide it. But the SB's I like are regular college girls, not pros, and its not simply a matter of paying them. You need to talk your way into their pants. This is something I've done my whole life, and I enjoy it. Bottom line, if I can do it, most anyone can.

Many have complained here about the investment of time required, and in my experience it does take a lot time. My response percentage is tiny. But, my God, it is time spent searching out pretty young girls online, comparing their photos and deciding which girls are the choicest, and flirting with them, first online and then in person. Is that "work"? Not in my view. It's an enjoyable hobby in itself. Of course, its made more enjoyable with the anticipation of eventually seeing them on their knees sucking my dick and the knowledge that enough of them will. The sex with these girls is incomparably better than with pros and makes it all worthwhile. I've had lots of hobbies, and have spent plenty on them over the years. This hobby has given my far more pleasure than any of them.

So yeah, there are all manner of girls on SA. Tons of garden variety pros. Lot of gold diggers. A surprising number of girls who seem to view it as "just a dating site. " Some of them actually claim to be "marriage-minded. " You can find just about any kind of girl you want on there and plenty you don't want. Lots of them I wouldn't fuck with your dick. But my God, there are some real gems among them, and some of them can be persuaded to give you anything you want, just the way you want it, and seem delighted to do so! I swear I feel like I'm acting in a porn film sometimes.

Viva SA![/QUOTE]Just wondering, with such an age difffernce between you and your SBs, what is your approach to connecting with them? I just find I don't have any life experiences in common with real young ladies. Is there a particular kind of gal you look for?

[QUOTE=LongLasting;4101402]Just wondering, with such an age difffernce between you and your SBs, what is your approach to connecting with them? [/QUOTE]Don't make them feel like ***** -- until you are pulling their hair and they scream "fuck me in the ass daddy" and they ask you to.

20 something boys are boys and SBs want a man. They don't care how old they are -- for the most part -- so long as you cross the threshold of being fit and attractive, what they really want is someone to treat them like the princess they think they are. Admittedly, some have daddy issues and are especially attracted to men who could be their dads, just as some are repulsed by the idea. Granted, I've only dipped below 20 2 x and both had serious daddy issues.

Send them flowers, buy them a gift (not just lingerie and toys) they can show off to friends. They are addicted to RomComs but live in a world of clueless wimps. They like manly men, but can't admit it to their Me Too addled friends and co-workers.

Compliment them. Tell them how pretty they are (not just hot or sexy) and compliment their hair, outfit / shoes. And especially when you are banging them, tell them how lucky you are such a gorgeous young thing will share her time (and 2 to 3 holes) with you.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;4101886]Don't make them feel like ***** -- until you are pulling their hair and they scream "fuck me in the ass daddy" and they ask you to.

20 something boys are boys and SBs want a man. They don't care how old they are -- for the most part -- so long as you cross the threshold of being fit and attractive, what they really want is someone to treat them like the princess they think they are. Admittedly, some have daddy issues and are especially attracted to men who could be their dads, just as some are repulsed by the idea. Granted, I've only dipped below 20 2 x and both had serious daddy issues.

Send them flowers, buy them a gift (not just lingerie and toys) they can show off to friends. They are addicted to RomComs but live in a world of clueless wimps. They like manly men, but can't admit it to their Me Too addled friends and co-workers.

Compliment them. Tell them how pretty they are (not just hot or sexy) and compliment their hair, outfit / shoes. And especially when you are banging them, tell them how lucky you are such a gorgeous young thing will share her time (and 2 to 3 holes) with you.[/QUOTE]Thanks much, great advice. I've gotten a lot of tips here. Had some good luck and sometimes spent too much or didn't do my homework first. It's all a journey. I'm in Tampa area, there are a ton of pros posing as SB on SA here. Caveat emptor!

I've been on SA for a while. I tried Seeking Benefits, but it was a bunch of BS. How about what's your price?

A pre-paid card that can be used for purchases to merchants outside the US is a bit of a holy grail. It seems like SA has a payment system that can tolerate the readily available Visa Vanilla cards, that aren't advertised as such. Several other sites, including Secret Benefits and the email vendor I prefer, hushmail, don't have this. Are any of you SDs familiar w / a card that overcomes this issue? Specifics please. What is it, exactly, and where do you buy yours?

[QUOTE=Rustyshk;4105737]I've been on SA for a while. I tried Seeking Benefits, but it was a bunch of BS. How about what's your price?[/QUOTE]Seeking arrangements has the biggest selection. I always have luck when I travel too.

[QUOTE=LongLasting;4101402]Just wondering, with such an age difffernce between you and your SBs, what is your approach to connecting with them? I just find I don't have any life experiences in common with real young ladies. Is there a particular kind of gal you look for?[/QUOTE]The oldest millennials are turning 38 yrs old in 2019. You're not only trying to connect with millennial SBs, but now you're dealing with the "post-millennials. " They are a completely different species. If you're trying to connect with girls under the age of 32, you have to realize that their likes and dislikes are 100% different than yours. Women over 40 love to be taken out to dinner and wined and dined. Young girls, love GrubHub. They're not big on human interaction unless its sex. The younger generation does not like commitment. When they want to have sex, they text a 21 yr old boy and ask him if he wants to "Netflix and chill. " When I first heard this phrase, I assumed it meant that they would watch a movie and have sex. I found out from my niece that they never watch the movie at all. The guy is coming over for sex and then he leaves immediately. They no more want to chat and have idle conversation with each other, much less US. The newer generation hates small talk. They don't want to chat and send pics unless they're going to get something. A hot millenial does not want to sit and listen to a man in his 40's /50's ramble about his hobbies and lifelong accomplishments unless she's getting paid. It's excruciating for millenials to have to sit through that. Most of them have ADHD. Sitting still without a phone or video game in their hands is very difficult for them psychologically. Young girls are trying to get banged and run, whether they're leaving with money or not.

[QUOTE=Rustyshk;4106133]The oldest millennials are turning 38 yrs old in 2019. You're not only trying to connect with millennial SBs, but now you're dealing with the "post-millennials. " They are a completely different species. If you're trying to connect with girls under the age of 32, you have to realize that their likes and dislikes are 100% different than yours. Women over 40 love to be taken out to dinner and wined and dined. Young girls, love GrubHub. They're not big on human interaction unless its sex. The younger generation does not like commitment. When they want to have sex, they text a 21 yr old boy and ask him if he wants to "Netflix and chill. " When I first heard this phrase, I assumed it meant that they would watch a movie and have sex. I found out from my niece that they never watch the movie at all. The guy is coming over for sex and then he leaves immediately. They no more want to chat and have idle conversation with each other, much less US. The newer generation hates small talk. They don't want to chat and send pics unless they're going to get something. A hot millenial does not want to sit and listen to a man in his 40's /50's ramble about his hobbies and lifelong accomplishments unless she's getting paid. It's excruciating for millenials to have to sit through that. Most of them have ADHD. Sitting still without a phone or video game in their hands is very difficult for them psychologically. Young girls are trying to get banged and run, whether they're leaving with money or not.[/QUOTE]Amen! Google the Nicki Minaj interview with Ellen. She goes on and on about how her generation hates to cuddle. That's why I love the civvies under 30! God bless Tinder! They don't want to get married, definitely don't want kids right now. They want to meet up, bang it out and get back to it. They don't want to actually "hang-out. " So I bang the sh** out of them, get out of their hair fast, and wait for them to call me the next time they're horny. And you're absolutely right about the ADHD. Every time I try to sit and have a conversation with them, their eyes glaze over. It looks like their head's about to pop off.

[QUOTE=Rustyshk;4106133]The oldest millennials are turning 38 yrs old in 2019. You're not only trying to connect with millennial SBs, but now you're dealing with the "post-millennials. " They are a completely different species. If you're trying to connect with girls under the age of 32, you have to realize that their likes and dislikes are 100% different than yours. Women over 40 love to be taken out to dinner and wined and dined. Young girls, love GrubHub. They're not big on human interaction unless its sex. The younger generation does not like commitment. When they want to have sex, they text a 21 yr old boy and ask him if he wants to "Netflix and chill. " When I first heard this phrase, I assumed it meant that they would watch a movie and have sex. I found out from my niece that they never watch the movie at all. The guy is coming over for sex and then he leaves immediately. They no more want to chat and have idle conversation with each other, much less US. The newer generation hates small talk. They don't want to chat and send pics unless they're going to get something. A hot millenial does not want to sit and listen to a man in his 40's /50's ramble about his hobbies and lifelong accomplishments unless she's getting paid. It's excruciating for millenials to have to sit through that. Most of them have ADHD. Sitting still without a phone or video game in their hands is very difficult for them psychologically. Young girls are trying to get banged and run, whether they're leaving with money or not.[/QUOTE]Wow, that's awfully cynical.

Let me chime in and share my experience. Millenials and post-millenials are like any other generation in that there are all kinds of people, dreams, aspirations, desires, and personalities. They are not lazier, less ambitious, dumber, or worse than your generation (whatever that may be). Yes, they grew up with the internet and smart phones but it only means they know they can google something anytime they want and access any bits of information they want.

The chattiest girls I've ever met were post-millenials and they absolutely loved the attention of an older guy (duh, daddy issues) and were looking for a bona-fide stable relationship with said older guy. The hooker behavior of sleeping with someone for money no matter the disgust level has always been around. It's not called the oldest profession for nothing.

There's absolutely nothing to be gained from stereotyping younger generations. They're no better or worse than when you were that age. It's your perspective that's changed, that's all. Approach them like the individuals that they are and you'll get better mileage and relationships as a result. Peace out.

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;4106649]Wow, that's awfully cynical.

Let me chime in and share my experience. Millenials and post-millenials are like any other generation in that there are all kinds of people, dreams, aspirations, desires, and personalities. They are not lazier, less ambitious, dumber, or worse than your generation (whatever that may be). Yes, they grew up with the internet and smart phones but it only means they know they can google something anytime they want and access any bits of information they want.

The chattiest girls I've ever met were post-millenials and they absolutely loved the attention of an older guy (duh, daddy issues) and were looking for a bona-fide stable relationship with said older guy. The hooker behavior of sleeping with someone for money no matter the disgust level has always been around. It's not called the oldest profession for nothing.

There's absolutely nothing to be gained from stereotyping younger generations. They're no better or worse than when you were that age. It's your perspective that's changed, that's all. Approach them like the individuals that they are and you'll get better mileage and relationships as a result. Peace out.[/QUOTE]If anything, millenials and post-millenials are one of the most diverse group you'll run into. Everything from hardcore "Yes daddy own my pussy" kink from hard-line conservatives to stable polyamorous girls, to girls in not-so-stable poly relationships, to semi-pro girls just trying to make ends meet but haven't a clue as to go about it in this line of work. It's just freakin' all over the place.

Time and patience will inevitably year a compatible person, just like civvie dating.

So recently joined SA.

Thought I could "fav" some profiles. And I mentioned in profile description to message me their number if interested in my profile.

I was hopimg to use the technique mentioned here to read a message without premium membership.

But to my surprise I get no messages or even favs back.

Is it experience of seniors that you hear back from girls you initiate a message with?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;4105962]A pre-paid card that can be used for purchases to merchants outside the US is a bit of a holy grail. It seems like SA has a payment system that can tolerate the readily available Visa Vanilla cards, that aren't advertised as such. Several other sites, including Secret Benefits and the email vendor I prefer, hushmail, don't have this. Are any of you SDs familiar w / a card that overcomes this issue? Specifics please. What is it, exactly, and where do you buy yours?[/QUOTE]I use Bitcoin, it is anonymous.

I don't know what kind of girls you're looking for but the cute, non-fat, college-age girls get a shit ton of messages every day from guys all over the country. For them to bother with going through hoops for someone they've never met or talked to is fairly slim. It will work with pros (high volume) and girls that are not getting much attention (non-whites, fat girls, older gals). Always remember that the blonde, 110 lbs, 20 yo hottie you're looking at is getting a thousand messages whenever she logs on SA.

[QUOTE=ADreamer;4106839]So recently joined SA.

Thought I could "fav" some profiles. And I mentioned in profile description to message me their number if interested in my profile.

I was hopimg to use the technique mentioned here to read a message without premium membership.

But to my surprise I get no messages or even favs back.

Is it experience of seniors that you hear back from girls you initiate a message with?[/QUOTE]

Hey all. Great thread. I'm coming down to Richmond for a business trip and was thinking of trying to hang with this one. Anyone have info on her?

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/6d1d6cd9-203c-41fa-b057-088538ac9801[/URL]

[QUOTE=LongLasting;4101402]Just wondering, with such an age difference between you and your SBs, what is your approach to connecting with them? I just find I don't have any life experiences in common with real young ladies. Is there a particular kind of gal you look for?[/QUOTE]Again, I have only been on SA a few months, and I don't want to pretend to more experience than I have. That said, it is totally working for me so I will respond. My MO is to try to get to a meet ASAP. This is because I recognize that my game is stronger in person than online. So I propose a low key meet, coffee, or, if they are old enough to get served, drinks. I never hint that I expect anything from first meet, but I also never tell them "no expectations. " If they ask, I just say let's meet, see if there is chemistry and see where it goes. But I always have a room lined up so if it goes well we can go straight to the FC, and usually we do.

As far as how I connect, I would say my approach is different from a lot of guys on here. First, I treat them like a date, not a hooker. Show interest in them and their lives. Ask about school, room mates, whatever. I tell them about my life, not any identifying information, but my travels and life experiences. I make no effort to seem "young" or "hip. " I feel free to give them advice and pass judgment on them and their life choices. In other words, sort of an authority figure, but one who wants to bang them. I make no secret of the fact that I am married and have kids. I brag about my kids and make it clear that I take good care of them and they get lots of opportunities. Pretty much every girl I have met on SA has Daddy issues and they wish that they had a Daddy like me in real life. So the next best thing is to let me be their sugar daddy.

The girls I like are not slackers. They are uniformly ambitious, usually smart and good students and work hard. They want more out of life. I paint a picture of how they can have that with me. I make it clear that I am interested in them sexually (assuming I am. I am interested in almost all the girls I get to a meet and greet with, so I don't have to pretend), but I don't dote over them or do any PDA or make any moves in public. I am very self confident and just assume that they want to go to the FC with me. And they do. I disagree that the young ones are not interested in conversation. I find them desperate to talk to someone who sounds different than the 20 year old guys they are used to.

I pay a lot of attention to their needs in bed. I always DATY if they let me, and if they don't let me I don't repeat. I try to figure out which positions are doing it for them and spend some time in that position even if it's not my favorite. My goal is to fuck them as thoroughly as possible, so I pretty much want to put them through all the paces and into every position I can think of anyway. If their favorite is not my favorite I am likely to last longer. And really, as long as my dick is inside them, are there any bad positions? One of my girls had her first multiple orgasm experience with me, and another one her first vaginal orgasm. Not bad from a still small sample size. Just like in civvy dating, this makes them want more of my dick (and tongue) of course.

Two girls did not have orgasms, did not want to try and told me that they never orgasm with men (a couple others also did not have orgasms but I didn't get into their heads much and they were one time deals so nothing more to report on them). Both of them said something very similar: that they got pleasure from giving pleasure, that this made them feel good and gave them a sense of worth. In some way that I don't really understand, I believe that this attitude also stems from daddy issues. Whatever the cause, when I meet a girl like that I ma happy to let her take a lot of pleasure from giving me a lot of pleasure. These girls are not as satisfying to me as the ones who are squealing with their own orgasms, but there is also something sort of liberating about not having to worry about their pleasure, and being able to just do what you please for as long as you please. I repeated a few times with one of these and enjoyed it thoroughly. She was willing to suck my dick for as long as I could take it, which turns out to be pretty long.

Unlike Ernest Li's post, I never act grateful to be getting into their holes (although I most certainly am grateful inside). Enthusiastic to be hitting it to for sure, but never that I am grateful that they are willing to give their hot young body to my ancient self. I project two attitudes to them sexually: (I) entitlement. I absolutely expect them to please me in any way they can, and I am confident they will do that. So they do, because they don't want to disappoint daddy. And (ii) "matter of fact-ness," for want of a better word. That is, the idea that sex is just normal and what adults do in private. Not a big deal and nothing to giggle about. Often we will bring food and wine to the hotel room and hang out, so the sex is only part of the FC visit. And I act as though the money is just incidental and not the reason they are hanging (and banging) with me. We all know they would never have returned the first I'm if not for the prospect of money, but I act like I don't know that, and that makes it easier for them to convince themselves also.

Evil TMP is quite right about this: "Always remember that the blonde, 110 lbs, 20 yo hottie you're looking at is getting a thousand messages whenever she logs on SA. " All the girls I hit up are attractive and getting hit on a lot. So my success rate in getting messages returned is very small. Fortunately, I live in a place with tons of potential SB's on SA. And every single one of them is on there because they want a SD. It might as well be me.

I was so excited to join the SA and finally pull the trigger to start.

After 3 days hard working, I mean really hard working! Message a lot in my 25 miles range with those I feel attract to. And build up my spreed sheet.

So far, I get about 80+ some reply and after short conversation with those, put 47 on my sheet with 27 phone number.

Here are the feelings about those girls.

1. Those girls who joined longer than 3 months, they normally understand how this works, they are totally fine with PPM.

2. some girls are even ok with as low as 100 PPM, I mean just 100! They all started with 200, after some talk they are even ok with 100. And they are decent looking too.

3. some girls start ask with 300 or 350, they can go down to 200. Just depends how to talk to them.

4. there are some 19,20 years old who just join less than a month, they are very easy to talk to, and told me their bad experience on SA. Thats great. They have seen the reality.

5. some girls I think they may pro, look really pretty to me, they ask 200 PPM and they host.

6. the old ones, 30+, actually they are tough to negotiate, if they want to 300, then it is 300.

7. There are some ask for 400-500 range, I normally stay away.

8. All the girls I talked to so far, 80 plus. A lot will ask for allowance at first. But they are ALL, I mean ALL, agree to PPM! So I really don't think it is a issue to turn allowance girl to PPM.

And I also talked to some interesting ones, for example one girl she is 20, beautiful girl, hard working girl with crazy schedule. No experience on SA.

After long conversation, I really like this one and want to ask her out. She is totally cool with it. And I even tell her if we go on date I expect intimacy, she is cool with that also. But when I ask what she want for return.

Her answer is: If we were to go on a date this up comming week, my expectations would be just getting to know one another to see if we click. Nothing stressful. Maybe talk over drinks and whatnot.

I feel like, she tried to comfort me and ask me don't worry about it. Just hangout and see we have chemistry or not.

And, there is another 20 years old beautiful with little experience and tell me something similar. Just hangout and chill, see if we like each other.

So here are my question part and need you guys help.

First. I read lot of stuff here and many people say never never negotiate before the meeting.

But what if I did meet these 2 girls, and we do like each other, and they ask too much, then what? Isn't that waste of the time to them? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine just hangout with those young girls.

Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL.

Third. Some girls are willing to hangout and go back to their place after. Because I told them that is my plan and they are ok with it. I mean normal looking girl, Not Pro either. If we fuck without even mention the price, then what? How much I need to give those kind of girls.

In my messages.

I first told them I'm looking for chemistry both emotionally and physically. That is the hint to say I want to fuck you, right? Most would say, Yes, they want to the same thing.

Then, I also want to double check, because too many say yes on my first question, so I ask again.

I told them straightforward, My ideal date would be yummy food, lots laugh and intimacy at the end of night. And ask them if they are comfortable with that plan? I'm really shocked how many girls tell me Yes!

So I feel, If there is a room ready to go, those young girls are not hard to get at all!

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]I was so excited to join the SA and finally pull the trigger to start.

After 3 days hard working, I mean really hard working! Message a lot in my 25 miles range with those I feel attract to. And build up my spreed sheet.

So far, I get about 80+ some reply and after short conversation with those, put 47 on my sheet with 27 phone number.

Here are the feelings about those girls.

1. Those girls who joined longer than 3 months, they normally understand how this works, they are totally fine with PPM.

2. some girls are even ok with as low as 100 PPM, I mean just 100! They all started with 200, after some talk they are even ok with 100. And they are decent looking too.

3. some girls start ask with 300 or 350, they can go down to 200. Just depends how to talk to them.

4. there are some 19,20 years old who just join less than a month, they are very easy to talk to, and told me their bad experience on SA. Thats great. They have seen the reality.

5. some girls I think they may pro, look really pretty to me, they ask 200 PPM and they host.

6. the old ones, 30+, actually they are tough to negotiate, if they want to 300, then it is 300.

7. There are some ask for 400-500 range, I normally stay away.

8. All the girls I talked to so far, 80 plus. A lot will ask for allowance at first. But they are ALL, I mean ALL, agree to PPM! So I really don't think it is a issue to turn allowance girl to PPM.

And I also talked to some interesting ones, for example one girl she is 20, beautiful girl, hard working girl with crazy schedule. No experience on SA.

After long conversation, I really like this one and want to ask her out. She is totally cool with it. And I even tell her if we go on date I expect intimacy, she is cool with that also. But when I ask what she want for return.

Her answer is: If we were to go on a date this up comming week, my expectations would be just getting to know one another to see if we click. Nothing stressful. Maybe talk over drinks and whatnot.

I feel like, she tried to comfort me and ask me don't worry about it. Just hangout and see we have chemistry or not.

And, there is another 20 years old beautiful with little experience and tell me something similar. Just hangout and chill, see if we like each other.

So here are my question part and need you guys help.

First. I read lot of stuff here and many people say never never negotiate before the meeting.

But what if I did meet these 2 girls, and we do like each other, and they ask too much, then what? Isn't that waste of the time to them? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine just hangout with those young girls.

Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL.

Third. Some girls are willing to hangout and go back to their place after. Because I told them that is my plan and they are ok with it. I mean normal looking girl, Not Pro either. If we fuck without even mention the price, then what? How much I need to give those kind of girls.

In my messages.

I first told them I'm looking for chemistry both emotionally and physically. That is the hint to say I want to fuck you, right? Most would say, Yes, they want to the same thing.

Then, I also want to double check, because too many say yes on my first question, so I ask again.

I told them straightforward, My ideal date would be yummy food, lots laugh and intimacy at the end of night. And ask them if they are comfortable with that plan? I'm really shocked how many girls tell me Yes!

So I feel, If there is a room ready to go, those young girls are not hard to get at all![/QUOTE]I find it hard to believe anyone can get that many replies in three days.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4108671]I find it hard to believe anyone can get that many replies in three days.[/QUOTE]Actually it is 180+, not 80+. The first day when I got in, I was so excited, I sent out too many messages at the point I get notice that "You can't send more message due to SPAM", and I even put a post up and ask how to get that take care of. I mean hear work, that is really hard work. I search 25 miles range 18-30, white+latin, and message those who I feel attracted to. And who is active in last 7 days. I don't even remember how many messages I sent out, I can assume you, it is a lot.

I took my time to write my profile and make it sound as honest, genuine as possible. And I put my pic on there too.

And I get a lot of reply saying they like my post and I copy some of them here:

Hey you, my name is Amanda ☺65039; Oh wow I loved reading your profile and your message was so sweet. When are you free?? Maybe we can get food or talk and play video games sometime soon. ☺65039;.

Hi, How are you? Your profile definitely draws me in. As far as your knowledge of what a girl needs in life. And I understand the mutual needs as well. I'd love to talk and discuss a little bit if we feel like we connect and would maybe like to meet. Let me know. I look forward to hearing from you.

Hey! I'm new to this (I just joined) what first caught my eye was your your profile, because that's what I am 😉 But second was your looks! You are a VERY attractive man 😍 I like your sense of Humor and the fact that you're looking for someone who can match your chemistry and am also looking for someone who can hold an intelligent conversation.

Hi there, thanks for reaching out. You honestly sound much more genuine than anyone I've met so far on here!

I feel like you won't even believe me when I say this but I've never seen anyone on here that has such a way with words. Your honesty and pure intentions are so apparent.

Hey! I'd love to get to know you too, tell me about yourself.

Hey there luv. How are you? Yes I'm very very interested.

My point is, the profile does matter, those girls did actually take their time to read before they reply you. Especially those new girls, they are nervous and maybe scared. The way we say it at least give them some kind of comfort. I try to keep my profile funny and honest and straightforward, and tell everyone I'm looking for physically chemistry which mean at some point I do want to fuck them.

I really like one guy here said something like: I'm at the point of my life just don't give a crap because the thing I have done, and the crap bs I have get to this point. Stuff like that.

I just keep it real and be who I'm, and Happy.

I know many of guys here on SA just try to get young girls which is fine, and try to score them as many as possible which I understand it too.

But my intention maybe different.

1. I'm on there and see so many young beautiful girls, a lot of working hard but can't even make the ends meet. And think of my ungrateful spoil bratty separated wife, yep! I get a Real SB. But meet a girl and help her a little, I feel I'm actually being appreciated!

2. I own a strip club as side business, and I'm used to see those young beautiful girls come and go. Trust me, most of them are willing to fuck for the right number, and the rest can still fuck if you catch them on a rainy day for way less. And I feel most of those girls on SA will fuck you at the right price, it all depends on if you are willing to pay for and not regret at the moment after you cum! LOL Just in a few days, I found a lot of girls will do PPM for 100,200, 250,300, the highest I see is 500. I'm not into those girls. I want to find those newly join, not much experience on SA but think they can just provide companionship for money, and I want to turn those "good" girls to "bad" girls.

Save the bad girls, and turn the good girl to bad. That is what really turn me on. For that purpose, I'm willing to be patient and take my time.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]
Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL.

Third. Some girls are willing to hangout and go back to their place after. Because I told them that is my plan and they are ok with it. I mean normal looking girl, Not Pro either. If we fuck without even mention the price, then what? How much I need to give those kind of girls.

I first told them I'm looking for chemistry both emotionally and physically. That is the hint to say I want to fuck you, right? Most would say, Yes, they want to the same thing. Then, I also want to double check, because too many say yes on my first question, so I ask again. I told them straightforward, My ideal date would be yummy food, lots laugh and intimacy at the end of night. And ask them if they are comfortable with that plan? I'm really shocked how many girls tell me Yes! So I feel, If there is a room ready to go, those young girls are not hard to get at all![/QUOTE]I'll try to address the points where I think you want feedback:

1. There is a way to do all of this without EVER negotiating anything, and that is my modus operandi. Most of the girls I end up with want a man who is decisive and in charge of everything, and by definition if one is negotiating with an 18-22 year old, about anything, is not an indicator of a man in charge. This is not to say it doesn't work for some, it just doesn't produce the best possible results.

2. This ties into #1 -- the best way to ask how much they want is to never ask them how much they want. It's simply putting them in control of the situation to do that. To elaborate on #1, it can all be done without ever discussing dollar amounts. Over the years I've written a lot about my own techniques, just do a search on my username if interested in my particular methods. I'm of the belief that there is no common formula that works for everyone, but by understanding how others operate we can refine our own game plan.

3. How much to ultimately gift depends on other factors such as how much time she has spent with you (including number of fucks and quality of each, etc) how much you've spent on other dating expenses (dinner, etc), but be fair when you do the math. For example if I spend $150 on dinner, maybe $75 of that tab is spending on myself. Then, was it her idea or mine to go to a place with pricey options? If mine, I'm not going to deduct a full 50% from the gift I give her. On the other hand, if she orders lots of expensive extra sides and fancy desserts, takes a couple of bites of each and discards, then yeah all that is coming out of her gift. Same thing if she is staying with me a couple of days and wants to go clubbing at night, shopping during the day.

The fact that you're reporting lots of girls are saying yes, then I have to assume you're either relatively attractive, or are mostly fishing in UTR waters. Either one of those alone will produce a lot of positive responses, but depending on which of them is the case, your game should really be optimized accordingly. If they are very attracted to you, a lot of them will be on board for anything and you can get away with little to no payment if that's the goal. Then again if you're throwing amounts out there, you'll mostly attract UTR girls who are looking for the money and nothing else, and as long as you're paying as much or higher than others are offering her, then you'll get plenty.

There are a couple of numbers to remember in all this, too -- how the girl ranks according to your taste on a 1-10 scale, and how she likely ranks to the taste of most SDs. For example, if you prefer AA girls that are 5'10" and athletic, then what looks like an 8 to you might be a 4 to the average SD. You'll find great success in a case like that, simply because of less competition.

All forms of dating, even pure civy dating are based on supply and demand, so you need to be very aware of what exactly it is you are able to supply (both non-monetarily and monetarily) and what it is you're demanding (in terms of the girls) in order to fine tune your game and get the best results.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]

So here are my question part and need you guys help.

First. I read lot of stuff here and many people say never never negotiate before the meeting.

But what if I did meet these 2 girls, and we do like each other, and they ask too much, then what? Isn't that waste of the time to them? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine just hangout with those young girls.

Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL. ![/QUOTE]Really one in the same question. Laying out the scenario you had in mind is a strong first step -- there is also usually some implied time commitment for the after dinner / drink activity.

In keeping with the "don't treat them like a *****" philosophy -- never be direct. Be creative and speak in metaphors, but link them back to what you've talked about (demonstrate you are listening / reading). If they are students, ask "what tuition assistance package would be expected for our evening of fun and games" -- if they are struggling 20 somethings, ask about their "debt repayment package" or the like. If they are SBs to live the high life "how big a shopping budget would be appropriate". They know exactly what you mean and will laugh at your turn of the phrase.

Similarly, you probably want to avoid the one shot dates. So you will want to establish that as well without making the feel they are quoting you by the hour "What time do you turn into a pumpkin? "Do you need any study time before tomorrow's classes". "we could meet for drinks and dinner, then adjourn for dessert and a midnight snack. Maybe even breakfast in bed".

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]
Third. Some girls are willing to hangout and go back to their place after. Because I told them that is my plan and they are ok with it. I mean normal looking girl, Not Pro either. If we fuck without even mention the price, then what? How much I need to give those kind of girls.
[/QUOTE]Whatever you feel the evening was worth. If they aren't happy, they will let you know. If you don't totally low ball them, but they were expecting more just say "well we did not discuss it, and I did not have time to go to the ATM -- did not want you to feel bought and paid for" but Ill make it up to you on our next meeting, assuming her expectation is reasonable for your experience.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]
Unlike Ernest Li's post, I never act grateful to be getting into their holes (although I most certainly am grateful inside). Enthusiastic to be hitting it to for sure, but never that I am grateful that they are willing to give their hot young body to my ancient self. I project two attitudes to them sexually: (I) entitlement. I absolutely expect them to please me in any way they can, and I am confident they will do that. So they do, because they don't want to disappoint daddy. And (ii) "matter of fact-ness," for want of a better word. That is, the idea that sex is just normal and what adults do in private. Not a big deal and nothing to giggle about. Often we will bring food and wine to the hotel room and hang out, so the sex is only part of the FC visit. And I act as though the money is just incidental and not the reason they are hanging (and banging) with me. We all know they would never have returned the first I'm if not for the prospect of money, but I act like I don't know that, and that makes it easier for them to convince themselves also.
[/QUOTE]I should have been more specific, but have found this approach works well with the princess want to be's. Some of them just want to be treated like nasty sluts and will tell you as much. Its more about finding what resonates with them. If they are banging Daddy to get even with their real a-hole absentee dad, its a different dynamic from the ones who were never treated like a gorgeous little princess.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]I was so excited to join the SA and finally pull the trigger to start.
So here are my question part and need you guys help.

First. I read lot of stuff here and many people say never never negotiate before the meeting.

But what if I did meet these 2 girls, and we do like each other, and they ask too much, then what? Isn't that waste of the time to them? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine just hangout with those young girls.

Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL.

[/QUOTE]Trust me, all of the girls on SA that are willing to have sex are PPM. SA changes dramatically every 6 months as it's popularity grows. EVIL TMP is 100% right! The decent-looking girls are getting 100 messages a day. They're trying to sift through and find out who's real. And who's going to give them the MOST money with the LEAST amount of headache. In the last 6 months, I have not chatted with one girl on SA that didn't ask me about allowance up front. Most of them are poor college students and they don't have the time, desire, or gas money to meet up with a bunch of men for free. And you shouldn't be wasting your hard-earned money and time unless you know you're going to leave the meet-and-greet with at least a BJ.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;4108956]I should have been more specific, but have found this approach works well with the princess want to be's. Some of them just want to be treated like nasty sluts and will tell you as much. Its more about finding what resonates with them. If they are banging Daddy to get even with their real a-hole absentee dad, its a different dynamic from the ones who were never treated like a gorgeous little princess.[/QUOTE]The quote Ernest copied was re-quoted from my post. I may be over-generalizing as well. It seems ALL the girls I have met from SA have Daddy issues and are naturally submissive to one degree or another. I expect this is true of a high proportion of all SA girls, but not of all of them. It is just that what I am projecting only attracts those girls. That's fine with me. I am happy to stick with what works, and submissive comes in handy when you want what you want.

I am sure there are lots of other girls on there with different preferences, I just don't meet them. Like I said, my response rate is small. To make up for this, I send out a lot messages. My conversion rate once I meet them is also basically 100% (excluding the ones who got to the meet & greet by fraud), so it works.

In particular, I am not meeting the princess types. This is partly self selection, as I am actively avoiding any whiff of GPS, while not talking prices. And I am sure it is selection on their part as well, as I am not giving off a vibe that I am going to spend more than any other daddy.

SA is a big pond, with all kinds of fish in it, and I am sure lots of different approaches will work with different girls. I know a lot of guys on here like to specify prices and services before even meeting, and figure that saves them time. I'm going for a different experience, but everyone should go with what works for them.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4108835]I know many of guys here on SA just try to get young girls which is fine, and try to score them as many as possible which I understand it too.

But my intention maybe different. Just in a few days, I found a lot of girls will do PPM for 100,200, 250,300, the highest I see is 500. I'm not into those girls. I want to find those newly join, not much experience on SA but think they can just provide companionship for money, and I want to turn those "good" girls to "bad" girls.

Save the bad girls, and turn the good girl to bad. That is what really turn me on. For that purpose, I'm willing to be patient and take my time.[/QUOTE]If you own a strip club, then you know what these girls are all about. There's no such thing as turning good girls into bad girls. The girls lie about being new. They lie about everything! They're going to tell you whatever you want to hear to get as much money out of you as possible. Just like we sit here and chat and talk about all of the maniacal ways that we can get what we want, they are doing the same. The problem that some of you guys are having is that you're treating it like an actual "dating" site. The girls on SA are on there to make money. If there hanging out with you before having sex with you, it's only because they want to feel you out and find your weak points. They're doing what every female on Earth over the age of "3" does, they're trying to figure out how to manipulate you. They're not chatting with us or hanging out with us because they're enjoying our company.

[QUOTE=Rustyshk;4109215]If you own a strip club, then you know what these girls are all about. There's no such thing as turning good girls into bad girls. The girls lie about being new. They lie about everything! They're going to tell you whatever you want to hear to get as much money out of you as possible. Just like we sit here and chat and talk about all of the maniacal ways that we can get what we want, they are doing the same. The problem that some of you guys are having is that you're treating it like an actual "dating" site. The girls on SA are on there to make money. If there hanging out with you before having sex with you, it's only because they want to feel you out and find your weak points. They're doing what every female on Earth over the age of "3" does, they're trying to figure out how to manipulate you. They're not chatting with us or hanging out with us because they're enjoying our company.[/QUOTE]As some have said recently in this thread, a little cynical viewpoint. As some veterans like F Scott and bikerider like to say, you get the sugarbowl you are looking for. I am not looking for what you're talking about above, and thankfully, I repel women who want that.

I use this service a lot for a FC venue in my area, as I have a SO. I always have the SB get the room, it is truly a treat. It is less than 100 and super nice, no Motel 6, so they feel good about it. Available 9 or 10 am to 3 or 4 pm. Last time w / the 22 YO PYT SB I am seeing, I was early and sitting in the parking structure, waiting for her to check in and text me the room #. I see a compact economy car enter and park directly in front of me. A young girl gets out. I am looking to see if its my SB, b / c if so I can get her license plate (and for $40, her real name) - but it's not her. However, she not only has all the indicators of a SB (yoga pants), she's loading stuff into some tote bags, etc. , and running into the hotel. Got to get ready before daddy gets there. LOL. I figure a few other SDs are also aware of hotelsbyday and are using it like I am. This is in Orange County, CA, in case anyone would like to compare notes.

I have no experience of HotlesByDay but have been using [URL]Dayuse.com[/URL] a lot. Dayuse let's you reserve without a credit card or deposit and cancel right up to the last minute without penalty. Hotels are all very nice. In my area a lot of them are Hiltons and affiliated brands.

Like to hear from bothers who have used both and can compare them.

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4110006]I have no experience of HotlesByDay but have been using [URL]Dayuse.com[/URL] a lot. Dayuse let's you reserve without a credit card or deposit and cancel right up to the last minute without penalty. Hotels are all very nice. In my area a lot of them are Hiltons and affiliated brands.

Like to hear from bothers who have used both and can compare them.[/QUOTE]Have been using HotelsByDay exclusively in my area, MA / NH. The pros: cheap daytime rate as low as $65 for big name chain, early am check in, 8 am in some case, no CC required to reserve. The cons: have to check out by 6 pm.