"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2079054]Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have been following this thread for sometime now and appreciate all the advice and stories. It has helped me out tremendously. I'm not new to the sd / sb game but I am new to doing it thru the internet. When I had several busineses / stores operating I constantly had new sb to play with regularly. Now I'm looking new opportunities.

I have a membership with SA and SDFM. For my area SA seems a better site, and I prefer the info it provides. But both sites have cumbersome platforms that sometimes irritate me. I haven't been impressed with what I'm finding. I've had a lot initially respond then go dark. I know they are active on the site but I do not hear anything. I've had several keep contacting me and providing verification but they are not hot enough.

Right now I've got one that doesn't understand the concept of verifying her photos. She keeps sending me pics but nothing that personalizes it for me. So I'm dropping her.

Just now I basically got into a text war with another sb. Although she had multiple photos on the site she would not personalize a photo for me and could not understand the concept. Then she wanted me to send her a photo. Her argument was "I'm the girl dude! After trying to educate her with no success I finally told her "I'm the daddy! I'm the one with money and reputation so good bye".

I'm thinking this internet approach is too much work with the site messages, emails, and text messages.

Skin.[/QUOTE]Re: personalizing photos: I can understand your caution with some of the photos that the girls post on these SD sites. You have to weed out the fakes and the Russians, etc. That being said I have had excellent result using google image search on the pics they use in their ads, and have many, many times caught SBs using stock girlie photos from the internet or escort ads and the like. Sometimes I even copy the link and mail it back to them saying "BUSTED!" Beyond that most of the time the photos are legit, although if they are too tiny, dark, blurred or no face shot I'll ask for a better pic to be sent to my off-site email. Some of these girls are obviously not gifted in the taking photos dept, although these days most have plenty of experience doing FB or TWTR. I sometimes use a free photo editor such as irfanview to enlarge, brighten or otherwise edit a pic so that I can see what's in it. A little research and due diligence (DD) can usually answer most questions about "real" or "fake".

-krusty.

Here's one for you guys...some lessons in here somewhere.

I had a M&G set up with a 26 y / o POT, and it was a pretty good drive from home, but I had a whole day off so what the heck...I had a
Couple of good pics of her from the SD site but no good face shot but I'm willing to take a chance because everything else lined up OK.

And we had chatted on the phone some.We were to meet at a small conv-store along the highway, since she was getting a ride there from a friend.
So I'm sitting there are the appointed time and the call comes thru that her "ride" didn't work out and could I drive back a mile or so and she would be walking down a side road.

So I head on down there, and off one road to another someplace way back in the Virginia countryside, and find this little gal walking down a dirt road,
In the rain, in sandals. It felt like a scene out of a movie. She was a cute thing and a little ragged from getting her hair wet, but she climbed in.
my car and we headed out on the highway again. So we get acquainted while driving into town, and she is obviously interested in going right to a
Motel for some fun. Who am I to argue, but these sorts of situations illustrate the "grey area" between SB's and escorts. So we get a place and
agree on an amount for a session, $ This is where it gets a little more interesting...seems that she is really dirt-poor, has several kids.

No job, broke down car.basically a financial basket case. The sex was OK but nothing really to make me want to repeat, and later we got something to eat, then I dropped her back on that dirt track road. The point here is that some of the SB's are beyond "fixing". There is really no amount of money within reason that a SD could provide,
that is going to improve their life. Sad but true. This is what has become of the bottom third of people in the US. Us guys are lucky to have jobs and a few extra $ to throw around for fun, but I think from my experience I like to see a SB who can at least pull their own weight financially, and my gifts of funds are simply for little luxuries that they can't afford. The really poor ones already have no money management skills, and it's easy for them to latch onto a SD and bleed them broke. Us older guys can't imagine what the future holds for broke girls in their 20's but we can't allow it to ruin us as well. There are better situations out there, just got to keep looking.

-krusty.

I just try and get a selfie with something personalized that verifies their profile. A photo of them holding a piece of paper with my name on it is the easiest.

Most of the sb I have run across I'm sure are working girls. Too eager to provide info and such.

The 22 year old that just today refused to send a photo finally caved. After I told her "I'm daddy..." and went silent for thirty minutes she finally broke and started texting back and sent a photo. Our rappaport got casual and joking immediately. She wants to meet asap.

I'm just very nervous about meeting with someone from the internet. I've also got another problem that is my own doing. This sb, like most, is the same age as my gf and she lives in a nearby college city. My gf went to school with several chicks at this school.

Skin.

For whatever it may be worth, even prior to my official entrance to the online sugar bowl, I have extensive experience with online dating and cannot count the number of times I've met someone in person. Every now and then you get a disappointment in the sense that the photo is real but she's not what you'd hoped she'd be, but I never ran into a case where someone sent me a photo that was completely fake.

I did once make the mistake of ordering an escort to where I lived at the time (my apartment, did not have live-in GF at that time so nothing to lose) based on an online ad, and it turned out to be a bait and switch. Pudgy girl greets me at the door and I said "sorry, but you're NOT the girl in the pics" well "its not my fault I'm with an agency" and I started to close the door and she tried to grab the knob and resist the door being closed and dead bolted in her face. It did not turn out in her favor. I'm thankful she didn't sit there and try to knock or cause a scene though. Note this experience was with the escort scene and NOT online dating or sugar babying.

In online dating, asking someone to personalize their photos for you is asking too much IMO. If a girl asked me to do that I'd tell her to get fucked (by someone else). Most people have a limited number of pictures of themselves they want to share, and to ask them to create a new one just to appease the fears of someone they've never met is an unreasonable request IMO. You might find some girls willing to do that but for every one that does there are probably 20 that are going to just move on to the next guy that is not making demands outside the norm.

Meeting someone to have it turn to disappointment is simply one of the risks you take in the bowl and with online dating in general. I think most of the time you'll find that girls represent themselves pretty well online. More often than not, I'm usually pleasantly surprised when I see them in person for the first time. Most girls are already in the attractive category (well beyond fuckable with beer goggles) before they decide to try sugar babying. There are some rats, and there are some hookers that are posing as true sugarbabys so your mileage may vary somewhat, but that's been my experience.

Many years ago I met a grad student online that lived about 3.5 hours away. This was not an SB POT but a dating website find. She sent me kind of a modeling photo and said "I don't really look that good, they had a good makeup guy and photographer". Well we talked on the phone once or twice but I never visited her. She calls me up one day about 6 months later and said she has to go to a seminar for school that's about 30 minutes from where I am and was wondering if I could meet her, and do I have a spare room she can stay in. I said yeah so she comes to meet me after her seminar and we go to dinner. At dinner I was mostly looking at her face thinking about her comment about how the photo didn't look like her (she was right, she was not nearly as pretty). But, she was nice and I already committed to letting her stay with me so I just enjoyed the date. Back at the house we had a couple of drinks and I showed her where she was sleeping. She went take a shower and came out of the shower with this little white nitey on that was stuck to her wet skin and I could see everything. Turns out she had a rocking little body on her that more than addressed any attractiveness concerns I had. She said "do you mind if I sleep in your room instead of the spare bed? Sure honey why not... Hehe... So I ended up going down on her, she reciprocates with amazing BBBJCIM then I'm off to sleep. She kisses me goodbye on the cheek in the morning before she heads home and we never spoke again. So sometimes good things come to those who remain open minded.

If they are sending pics that don't show their face or body or act like they're hiding something, it's within etiquette to ask them for photos with better visibility, and it's fair to ask how recent they are. I do think it's asking too much for personalized photo work, just remember there are lots of other guys who won't press them for same if they are worth meeting, and for all they know you could be the type that backs out at the last minute.

I understand your opinion and that may be correct. But I think it would have to be more along the lines of they just don't want to. Not an issue of actually coming up with the photo. Cause I've been dating a 23 year old for two years, and banging many 20 year olds for nine years, and they all were very proficient photogs with their phones. I didn't know a single one that didn't do multiple selfie a day.

So in my mind it's no big deal to take a minute and provide a selfie. Especially if they have posted photos on the site.

But I'm not a woman. I use reason and accountability.

Skin.

22 year old legit massage therapist came around quick and provided several personalized photos. She is eager to meet tomorrow morning for m / g. I can't tell if she is just excited, hard pressed for money, or a utr. She's very eager.

35 year old provided a link to her private photos quick. And they were racy. She also provided a personalized innocent selfie immediately. The racy photos and her desire to meet tomorrow throw up red flags of a pro. But she has a clean innocent look so I'm going to see her regardless.

Skin.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2079257]I understand your opinion and that may be correct. But I think it would have to be more along the lines of they just don't want to. Not an issue of actually coming up with the photo. Cause I've been dating a 23 year old for two years, and banging many 20 year olds for nine years, and they all were very proficient photogs with their phones. I didn't know a single one that didn't do multiple selfie a day.

So in my mind it's no big deal to take a minute and provide a selfie. Especially if they have posted photos on the site.

But I'm not a woman. I use reason and accountability.

Skin.[/QUOTE]Yes, these girls take photos of themselves all day long with their phones, and will spam you with them constantly after they know you a little. But before you've ever met them, I think you're up against the laws of supply and demand there, and even that may vary between different geographical areas.

They don't mind to do selfies they just mind to do favors for guys they don't know on a website where they think they are signing up to "get spoiled". You have to warm them up to our idea of what being spoiled means. They start out assuming they are a princess in a land of opportunity.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2079274]Yes, these girls take photos of themselves all day long with their phones, and will spam you with them constantly after they know you a little. But before you've ever met them, I think you're up against the laws of supply and demand there, and even that may vary between different geographical areas.

They don't mind to do selfies they just mind to do favors for guys they don't know on a website where they think they are signing up to "get spoiled". You have to warm them up to our idea of what being spoiled means. They start out assuming they are a princess in a land of opportunity.[/QUOTE]I sort of use a reverse psychology method when it comes to photos. Knowing that every guy always asks for more, more and more photos. I never ask for any. If they don't have a full body shot on their profile you can just assume they are not in perfect shape. Because the ones that are can't post enough pictures of how hot they are.

But what I will do is say "please email me at [URL]whatever.com[/URL] and I will send you a few pics" Thats it. Of course they always email me and now I have their email address as well. When I send the pics I will normally say something like "and you can reply with a few of your own if you want"... 9 out of 10 times they do.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2079501]I sort of use a reverse psychology method when it comes to photos. Knowing that every guy always asks for more, more and more photos. I never ask for any. If they don't have a full body shot on their profile you can just assume they are not in perfect shape. Because the ones that are can't post enough pictures of how hot they are.

But what I will do is say "please email me at [URL]whatever.com[/URL] and I will send you a few pics" Thats it. Of course they always email me and now I have their email address as well. When I send the pics I will normally say something like "and you can reply with a few of your own if you want"... 9 out of 10 times they do.[/QUOTE]I do something similar, I try to get them to e-mail me sooner rather than later, and I say if they do, and will please include a couple more photos (or more depending on how well I can see them on their site photos) then I will do same. I always have 5-6 recent pics ready to send that give them a better idea than the pics I put on the website, because I usually put pics that are intentionally hard to identify me if someone else sees me there (facial features hard to make out). Usually from there it's smooth sailing.

I will say though that sometimes a little FB research goes a long way toward preventing getting meeting someone who misrepresents themselves in photos. I recently had a case where one girls website pics looked delicious, but the follow up pics she sent me made it look like she might be strategically shooting photos and sending me the "best of" in order to hide a little bit of extra weight. I was able to find her on FB using only her first name and city, and while her own photos didn't reveal much, looking at her ex-bf's photo album revealed a lot. Both before and after the kid she had with him, she didn't really seem to try hard enough to exercise or stay lean. She might be lean now but she looked like someone who has an ongoing struggle with extra weight. That might not be a problem for some but I like them slim. I could tell she's the type that got down to her fighting weight just to hook an SD or two then she would start back on the donuts or whatever, and next thing I know I would be left feeling let down. It's amazing how quickly some of them can put on a few pounds, going from desirable to not-so-much in the course of a couple of weeks. Especially at her height (like 5'1") where it only takes a few pounds. So, when I see pics that are consistently waist-up only or some other red flag, my radar is on full tilt until they send me some pics that proves me wrong.

I try to be pretty casual with requesting pics similar to Hollywood. But my time is also valuable and limited, so I don't want to waste potentially 1-2 weeks setting up a date and FC visit, only to be underwhelmed by her misrepresented physical appearance.

Not to sound like a jerk, but it's one of the main reasons I tend to shy away from women who have had kids. Some women are able to bounce back nicely from pregnancy, but far too often most women have after effects from pregnancy, which are hard to see in normal pics. Woman who had kids could look decent in a normal picture, but once you see her naked without a push-up bra, you often see flabby / droopy tits and loose cottage cheese stomach. All of a sudden you're now relying 100% on Vitamin V to pull you through the rest of the encounter, so you can pop, go home and text the next SB on the rolodex. Whereas girls who don't have kids yet, a normal pic will do because generally once you see their body type, you have decent idea what's underneath and there's not too many bad surprises.

So if the girl has a kid, I may be a little more insistent on getting a full body picture that shows a little bit of skin. If they're not comfortable showing me this, then most likely I would have been disappointed anyway and it's better to end it early.

Remember it's your hard earned money. Yes you may not always get a model 10 girl but that doesn't mean you should roll the dice too much and end up paying money on a homely girl below your standards. Having a girl take a picture holding a sign with your name on it might be a little excessive if you just started chatting. However I think it's a reasonable request if things have advanced far enough and you're getting ready to meet, especially if it requires you to drive a decent distance. And I think it's reasonable to request a full-body picture early on. Often times I'm able to find a full-body pic by doing a FB search or the girl already provides it, so I don't have to request it. But if she's just given me zoomed in face pictures and I can't find a full-body pic by sleuthing, then I'll ask her for one. Especially if they start talking about allowances, then I'll insist on them sending me fully representative (non-nude) pictures. I tell them if they're not ready to be evaluated by their looks, then they're not ready to be a sugar baby.

Yes with me being a little more strict with pics may mean I lose out on a few good ones, but it also means I avoid the definite disappointments (physically speaking). And I only spend my time and money on girls who appeal to my predilections without the bitter after-taste of loose belly fat.

PS. I don't do it often, but a few times I have requested for a girl to take a fresh pic holding a piece of paper. I may do this if my spidy sense tells me the pics she's currently showing may be outdated or sometimes I do it just to test how agreeable she is to such a request and gauge her reaction. Here's a secret tip though. Don't have her write your name. Instead have her write something related to a funny conversation you guys had or hold up a particular object that you guys previously spoke about. That way she sees the picture request as something humorous instead seeing you as being on a power trip. If she's able to re-use the photo for other purposes all the better. You get a custom fresh pic and she doesn't feel like she's being pulled through hoops by a stranger.

Met 22 year old massage therapist this morning at Starbucks. We hit it off and talked for 45 minutes. I got a couple hints during that she was ready to move to more.

I didn't want to be pushy so I kept beating around the Bush and then we finally started talking about going to a hotel.

She was immediately asking siri about hotels. I just picked the closest and nicest. I get a 1 1/2 hour workout before I paint her face. She is a little freakish and very vocal. Very nice girl but my spidey sense is tingling. She says she hasn't went all the way yet with a sd due to their age. I'm only 39 and good looking so maybe everything she said and did were true. But I'm very skeptical. Worried she might be utr.

I don't know exactly how your rating goes but she was looks.

Face 8 very cute sweet look with freckles and tiny nose.

Body 7 short and well sized but her shape wasn't perfect for some reason, awesome tan lines but no boobs.

Personality 8 too hippie for me but very outgoing.

Sex 8 I'm kind of strict here. She was awesome and very vocal and very submissive. And she could deep throat forever. But she could get lazy, wasn't great on top, and wasn't technically skilled at oral. I gave a few pointers before blasting her eye.

But, big but, she took it like a champ while talking dirty and sucking it clean. May need to make that a 8.5.

Gave $.

It is supposed to be one a week.

Skin.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2080112]Met 22 year old massage therapist this morning at Starbucks. We hit it off and talked for 45 minutes. I got a couple hints during that she was ready to move to more.

I didn't want to be pushy so I kept beating around the Bush and then we finally started talking about going to a hotel.

She was immediately asking siri about hotels. I just picked the closest and nicest. I get a 1 1/2 hour workout before I paint her face. She is a little freakish and very vocal. Very nice girl but my spidey sense is tingling. She says she hasn't went all the way yet with a sd due to their age. I'm only 39 and good looking so maybe everything she said and did were true. But I'm very skeptical. Worried she might be utr.

I don't know exactly how your rating goes but she was looks.

Face 8 very cute sweet look with freckles and tiny nose.

Body 7 short and well sized but her shape wasn't perfect for some reason, awesome tan lines but no boobs.

Personality 8 too hippie for me but very outgoing.

Sex 8 I'm kind of strict here. She was awesome and very vocal and very submissive. And she could deep throat forever. But she could get lazy, wasn't great on top, and wasn't technically skilled at oral. I gave a few pointers before blasting her eye.

But, big but, she took it like a champ while talking dirty and sucking it clean. May need to make that a 8.5.

Gave $.

It is supposed to be one a week.

Skin.[/QUOTE]I love the eye blasting comment. If you find out she is a UTR, I would be interested in hitting her up. Sound like fun.

Good job brother Skin Jr.

Worried she might be utr? Did she call you Hun or Babe? That would be diagnostic.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2080112]Met 22 year old massage therapist this morning at Starbucks. We hit it off and talked for 45 minutes. I got a couple hints during that she was ready to move to more.

I didn't want to be pushy so I kept beating around the Bush and then we finally started talking about going to a hotel.

She was immediately asking siri about hotels. I just picked the closest and nicest. I get a 1 1/2 hour workout before I paint her face. She is a little freakish and very vocal. Very nice girl but my spidey sense is tingling. She says she hasn't went all the way yet with a sd due to their age. I'm only 39 and good looking so maybe everything she said and did were true. But I'm very skeptical. Worried she might be utr.

I don't know exactly how your rating goes but she was looks.

Face 8 very cute sweet look with freckles and tiny nose.

Body 7 short and well sized but her shape wasn't perfect for some reason, awesome tan lines but no boobs.

Personality 8 too hippie for me but very outgoing.

Sex 8 I'm kind of strict here. She was awesome and very vocal and very submissive. And she could deep throat forever. But she could get lazy, wasn't great on top, and wasn't technically skilled at oral. I gave a few pointers before blasting her eye.

But, big but, she took it like a champ while talking dirty and sucking it clean. May need to make that a 8.5.

Gave $.

It is supposed to be one a week.

Skin.[/QUOTE]Definitely a keeper for now.See her 3 to 5 times till you find someone better.

Good job skin! It sounds as thought this young lady has some potential. I would not be so quick to kick her to the curb. This sounds like the kind of girl that you can mold into the perfect sb for you. As long as she takes direction well, I would suggest you continue to see her and get her to where you want her. The price is certainly good and you would not spend too much to find out if she is worth the time and expense.