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I have to say though, it seems like most of the busts that have taken place every few years are agencies that use "that" apartment complex. I know Mosaic is a good spot, but there has to be something better around because it feels like that apartment complex either has uncooperative management or the neighbors are way too nosy about foot traffic (maybe sound proofing is bad?
[QUOTE=Derilious89;6672490]I have to say though, it seems like most of the busts that have taken place every few years are agencies that use "that" apartment complex. I know Mosaic is a good spot, but there has to be something better around because it feels like that apartment complex either has uncooperative management or the neighbors are way too nosy about foot traffic (maybe sound proofing is bad?[/QUOTE]From what I've read about the current situation, this case started in MA and then widened to include VA when linkages were found between the two locations. So I'm not sure there were any problems that originated directly as a result of the Mosaic apt location. It's a nice area, with lots of foot traffic around that would allow clients to arrive and leave relatively discreetly, so I can see why an agency would rent there.
The biggest problem for any apt location is nosy neighbors, which is impossible to predict in advance. Management is obviously another problem, but in a big and busy complex, like Mosaic, they probably wouldn't be aware of anything unless they received complaints from neighbors. When you think about it, it's pretty hard to hide a constant stream of comings and goings of men, no matter what the location. Neighbors will likely suspect drugs, or prostitution, or both.
[QUOTE=Derilious89;6672490]I have to say though, it seems like most of the busts that have taken place every few years are agencies that use "that" apartment complex. I know Mosaic is a good spot, but there has to be something better around because it feels like that apartment complex either has uncooperative management or the neighbors are way too nosy about foot traffic (maybe sound proofing is bad?[/QUOTE]Renting a nice hotel will cost them money compare to renting a apartment. Avg good hotel might cost you around 150/ day so 30 days cost them 4500 compare to apartments might be around 2-2. 5 k. Also hotel price changes during holiday.
It seems like the discussion is about evenly split between the two forums. That's completely understandable, so I'm posting in both so that those most interested (or personally affected) will see the info asap.
[URL]https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/11/feds-peruse-client-list-of-powerful-johns-after-bu/[/URL]
[QUOTE=ToraChan23;6338991]Yet these same women can create Only Fans accounts and sell sex that way. So much for our puritan American values.
All of a sudden its a problem when insertion happens.[/QUOTE]The woman can even be paid for sex on only fans and that's nice and fine. We live in the twilight zone.
[QUOTE=Derilious89;6672490]I have to say though, it seems like most of the busts that have taken place every few years are agencies that use "that" apartment complex. I know Mosaic is a good spot, but there has to be something better around because it feels like that apartment complex either has uncooperative management or the neighbors are way too nosy about foot traffic (maybe sound proofing is bad?[/QUOTE]There must be a doorman if they rented a luxury apt and also it usually has a security system. Even there are lots of visitors to each room so it could be a perfect spot for them.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6674788]It seems like the discussion is about evenly split between the two forums. That's completely understandable, so I'm posting in both so that those most interested (or personally affected) will see the info asap.
[URL]https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/11/feds-peruse-client-list-of-powerful-johns-after-bu/[/URL][/QUOTE]What stood out stood out from the Fed's press conference was when Levy said "We're working with our state parters on this. There are some things that are illegal under federal law. There are some things that are illegal under state law. ".
Does anyone know the mechanics of how this would work?
Solicitation is a non violent misdemeanor in Virginia, with a 1 year statue of limitations.
Presumably the feds will get all the PII from the phones they seized during the arrests, in addition to survalliance evidence they've already obtained.
At that point, would they give the evidence to the Fairfax County the? Fairfax County Police?
Fairfax County processed less than 10 commercial sex act crimes in 2022 and 2023 combined.
Who would be deciding if it's a priority for them to suddenly pursure hundreds of misdemeanors based on evidence gleaned from a separate agency? Who would be deciding which names to pursue?
Busting brothels doesn't usually rise to the level of the Justice Department. So the theory is this they did this to get to the Johns. But how does that square with the fact that the Johns will be prosecuted at the state level?
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6673173]From what I've read about the current situation, this case started in MA and then widened to include VA when linkages were found between the two locations. So I'm not sure there were any problems that originated directly as a result of the Mosaic apt location. It's a nice area, with lots of foot traffic around that would allow clients to arrive and leave relatively discreetly, so I can see why an agency would rent there.
The biggest problem for any apt location is nosy neighbors, which is impossible to predict in advance. Management is obviously another problem, but in a big and busy complex, like Mosaic, they probably wouldn't be aware of anything unless they received complaints from neighbors. When you think about it, it's pretty hard to hide a constant stream of comings and goings of men, no matter what the location. Neighbors will likely suspect drugs, or prostitution, or both.[/QUOTE]I've had consenting adult relationships with many escorts over the years here in the DMV. Most successful incalls were in apartment complexes in the 'burbs where there were outside entrances to each apartment or condo. The setup was very much like a Residence Inn. There was no doorman or key card for an outside gate. Several ladies used the same apartments / condos. It was generally unoccupied except for the times when one of the ladies was seeing a client.
On the flip side OPSEC-wise, I remember signing up for an afternoon gangbang in Reston several years ago that took place in a large, very middle-class apartment complex. The instructions were to show up at a specific time and to go to a certain apartment. I got there a little early, so I sat in my car in a visitor's parking space in a location where I could look at the designated entrance. The first thing I noticed was that there was way too much going on outside. Cars were coming & going and multiple moms / nannies were outside with young kids. At the appointed time, there must have been a dozen or more guys simultaneously get out of vehicles and walk to the same entrance. This was way above my threshold of OPSEC pain, so I left. This operation was busted just a couple of weeks later.
Also many years ago, I got to know an owner of a small escort agency in a medium-sized city out west. I was pretty much a "regular" when I was in town on business. He told me once that there were two keys to success: 1. Be low-key; and, 2. Pay your taxes.
[QUOTE=TommyDawson;6676208]Solicitation is a non violent misdemeanor in Virginia, with a 1 year statue of limitations.
Fairfax County processed less than 10 commercial sex act crimes in 2022 and 2023 combined.
[/QUOTE]These are very salient points. FFX Co the elected in 2020 has deprioritized prosecution of solicitation, and the number of cases has dropped like 80-90% from ten years ago, despite the fact that Fairfax County remains the epicenter of prostitution in the DC Metro area. It seems very unlikely that they'd take a special interest in these misdemeanor cases now. And if you haven't visited BEG in the past year, you have nothing to worry about.
[QUOTE=TommyDawson;6676208]What stood out stood out from the Fed's press conference was when Levy said "We're working with our state parters on this. There are some things that are illegal under federal law. There are some things that are illegal under state law. ".
Does anyone know the mechanics of how this would work?
Solicitation is a non violent misdemeanor in Virginia, with a 1 year statue of limitations.
Presumably the feds will get all the PII from the phones they seized during the arrests, in addition to survalliance evidence they've already obtained.
At that point, would they give the evidence to the Fairfax County the? Fairfax County Police?
Fairfax County processed less than 10 commercial sex act crimes in 2022 and 2023 combined.
Who would be deciding if it's a priority for them to suddenly pursure hundreds of misdemeanors based on evidence gleaned from a separate agency? Who would be deciding which names to pursue?
Busting brothels doesn't usually rise to the level of the Justice Department. So the theory is this they did this to get to the Johns. But how does that square with the fact that the Johns will be prosecuted at the state level?[/QUOTE]I wouldn't put too much stock in them, especially with such non-specific statements.
I don't agree that this was about targeting the clients. As to why there's federal involvement, I posted about that here:
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?9226-News-and-Media-Reports&p=6673173&viewfull=1#post6673173[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?33082-Agency-Discussion-and-Reviews&p=6673266&viewfull=1#post6673266[/URL]
As far as prostitution-related misdemeanors are concerned, I'm not a lawyer but, since the alleged illegal act (exchanging $ for sex) is unwitnessed, it's hard to see how the state could proceed when any defendant could simply deny (or plead the 5th). Even flipping a provider wouldn't necessarily tip the scales. That's a lot of heavy lifting for a misdemeanor, IMO. If there is anything that might rise to the level of a state felony, however, that's obviously something that could be charged. Hard to say what that might be.
I could be wrong, but I continue to think that (some) clients have more to fear from possible non-criminal fallout. That doesn't preclude the possibility that fed and state LE might choose to make an example of some individual clients, but it seems to me that the main effort will be against the alleged "trafficking" and money laundering violations.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6676964]I could be wrong, but I continue to think that (some) clients have more to fear from possible non-criminal fallout. That doesn't preclude the possibility that fed and state LE might choose to make an example of some individual clients, but it seems to me that the main effort will be against the alleged "trafficking" and money laundering violations.[/QUOTE]Spot on.
Interstate movement of sex workers, money laundering, Covid relief fraud. The feds have every reason to go after the leaders of BEG.
Any Federal repercussions of Johns would be non criminal. A leak of names, general gossip / smearing of reputation among feds / LE, a security clearance violation, even blackmail. Most at risk would be political enemies of the justice department, those with a security clearance, or names big enough to have a Wikipedia page.
A former state prosecutor who ran a sex trafficking unit put it best: "The feds will prosecute the three defendants and then there will be hundreds of sex buyers who have been operating by purchasing sex from these women in these locations and the state will have to decide how to proceed. " [URL]https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/boston-brothel-mass-sex-trafficking/3186274/[/URL].
At the state level, I imagine the highest risk would be those who visited within the last year, those that explicitly discussed sexual acts and payment, those with multiple visits, and those with a paper trail of payment. Also anyone who the feds gathered pictures / video of during their surveillance and personally identified.
This would be a new kind of case for Fairfax County, with lots of legal uncertainty, all for a nonviolent misdemeanor that the county hasn't been prioritizing.
Certainly possible, but I'd say it's more likely than not someone who recently went to BEG and gave up PII will face criminal charges.
Thought it was interesting in the case today the government discussed a conflict with the judge. Seems possible LE or members of the the office were among the Johns.
[URL]https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67988834/united-states-v-han-lee/[/URL]
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6676964]I wouldn't put too much stock in them, especially with such non-specific statements.
I don't agree that this was about targeting the clients. As to why there's federal involvement, I posted about that here:
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?9226-News-and-Media-Reports&p=6673173&viewfull=1#post6673173[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?33082-Agency-Discussion-and-Reviews&p=6673266&viewfull=1#post6673266[/URL]
As far as prostitution-related misdemeanors are concerned, I'm not a lawyer but, since the alleged illegal act (exchanging $ for sex) is unwitnessed, it's hard to see how the state could proceed when any defendant could simply deny (or plead the 5th). Even flipping a provider wouldn't necessarily tip the scales. That's a lot of heavy lifting for a misdemeanor, IMO. If there is anything that might rise to the level of a state felony, however, that's obviously something that could be charged. Hard to say what that might be.
I could be wrong, but I continue to think that (some) clients have more to fear from possible non-criminal fallout. That doesn't preclude the possibility that fed and state LE might choose to make an example of some individual clients, but it seems to me that the main effort will be against the alleged "trafficking" and money laundering violations.[/QUOTE]If you look recently they released texts messages that were sent. There is enough in there text messages and they way conducted business. They used terms that have been included in case law. GFE, BB look at the attached picture. If I ever got a text like that from an agency I am out. So they have they have at least solicitation for the vast majority of these guys. Because unlike most of us mongers who user burners and keep everything thing hidden. These guys used real phones, face up real information and quite a few paid with credit cards. The for the vast majority like you mentioned even being implicated is not good.
This ring was very organized and detailed, they kept records of every thing. The government doesn't need to posture at this point. The press conference are more to make the job easier for them. It will cause some of the higher level people to get ahead come in cop a please deal. Try and keep their name out of the news. With the level of info they have and the records they have cases on a whole bunch. If there were DOD or federal employees the us attorney has the ability to go after them for sex trafficking for just using the service. Will we see news stories with big arrests no. Most of this will be done behind closed doors
FYI.
New report on the Boston incident from gatewaypundit, not much new info.
Any other news??
[QUOTE=JackRyan1;6690405]FYI.
New report on the Boston incident from gatewaypundit, not much new info.
Any other news??[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/asian-brothels-that-serviced-military-officials-politicians-kept/[/URL]
[QUOTE=David032;6689673]If you look recently they released texts messages that were sent. There is enough in there text messages and they way conducted business. They used terms that have been included in case law. GFE, BB look at the attached picture. If I ever got a text like that from an agency I am out. So they have they have at least solicitation for the vast majority of these guys. Because unlike most of us mongers who user burners and keep everything thing hidden. These guys used real phones, face up real information and quite a few paid with credit cards. The for the vast majority like you mentioned even being implicated is not good.
This ring was very organized and detailed, they kept records of every thing. The government doesn't need to posture at this point. The press conference are more to make the job easier for them. It will cause some of the higher level people to get ahead come in cop a please deal. Try and keep their name out of the news. With the level of info they have and the records they have cases on a whole bunch. If there were DOD or federal employees the us attorney has the ability to go after them for sex trafficking for just using the service. Will we see news stories with big arrests no. Most of this will be done behind closed doors[/QUOTE]By saying that the US Attorney has the ability to go after clients for trafficking, just for using the service, you're giving an opinion on legal issues, right? And, since trafficking is a felony, you're saying that you believe clients have more to worry about than misdemeanor or security clearance issues.
Agree to disagree, I guess, as I haven't seen anything suggesting that clients are facing that level of jeopardy. One way or the other, we should know soon enough.