Avoid the Alexandria ghetto
[QUOTE=LauraRager;2850011]From News Accounts: "Two men were assaulted and robbed in the Lincolnia neigh-borhood early Monday morning by a female escort and several of her male accomplices. Officers from the Alex-andria Police epartment re-sponded to the 100 block of Bragg St. At around 5:21 am March 21 after two men met with a woman they knew to be an escort and she took them to a hotel room in the area. Police spokeswoman Crys-tal Nosal said once inside the hotel room, the men were beat-en and robbed by upwards of three unknown male suspects. ".[/QUOTE]The only hotel in the 100 block is the Days Inn, which I avoid 99.9% of the time, only breaking my rule against going there once in the last few years to see the amputee last month.
Bragg Towers at the end of that road is the public housing equivalent of a hotel, with the desk clerk hiding behind bulletproof glass. The last time I was there was a good 4-5 years ago, and I bailed after seeing some sketchy characters inside the place.
That block, which includes the Comfort Inn, is considered a "high prostitution area" by John Law, who uses that designation to stop people at will.
What's the likelihood that any of these girls would use encryption?
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;2868416][URL]https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/end-to-end-encryption[/URL]
With whatsapp enabling free end-to-end encryption (for both voice and text) by default, I would encourage every member to make full use of its upgraded security (unless you have something better).
I would also encourage every forum member to educate providers about this enhanced security option.
Happy hunting and stay safe![/QUOTE]Can you imagine trying to make the argument to them? Maybe a few of the older ones who keep the same phone and try to keep regulars for years might understand, but 99% of these girls are young and fly-by-night, who can't plan beyond earning tomorrow's hotel fee.
Couldn't hurt, could help. (IMHO)
[QUOTE=BunkerBuster;2868616]Can you imagine trying to make the argument to them? Maybe a few of the older ones who keep the same phone and try to keep regulars for years might understand, but 99% of these girls are young and fly-by-night, who can't plan beyond earning tomorrow's hotel fee.[/QUOTE]I don't have any illusions about the business or security sense of many of the providers out there but there are some who might try it out and from those it's certainly possible for word to get around.
It's a pretty simple argument and also not a very heavy lift. If a few hobbyists, maybe just before leaving after a session, say something like "Hey, Hon, you ever heard of Whatsapp? It's a free app that keeps your calls / texts totally private. You should check it out. " maybe that's all that's needed.
As you mentioned, older providers who care about cultivating regulars are the most likely adopters but I wouldn't categorically rule out younger ones. Yes, a lot of them are flaky and dealing with various issues, but the fact they're younger means they're generally more familiar and comfortable with technology.
And, since providers talk and give advice to each other, and even copy (both in good and bad ways) from each other, if a few providers start using more secure means of communications, it has the potential to spread. Finally, since some of the cautionary tales posted about earlier illustrate how investigations into alleged "trafficking" can easily expand and catch ordinary hobbyists in their net, anything free and easy that has the potential to increase security is worth a mention, IMHO.
Jimmy Carter and the "Nordic model"
Former President Jimmy Carter published a column in the Washington Post calling for buyers of sex to be punished rather than sellers, based on the so-called "Nordic model. " I'll offer my comments later, but I want to open this for discussion among my fellow mongers.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-curb-prostitution-punish-those-who-buy-sex-rather-than-those-who-sell-it/2016/05/31/e0376adc-236d-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory[/URL]
Well, let's apply the same logic
[QUOTE=TomMcAn;2936657]Former President Jimmy Carter published a column in the Washington Post calling for buyers of sex to be punished rather than sellers, based on the so-called "Nordic model. " I'll offer my comments later, but I want to open this for discussion among my fellow mongers.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-curb-prostitution-punish-those-who-buy-sex-rather-than-those-who-sell-it/2016/05/31/e0376adc-236d-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory[/URL][/QUOTE]Ol' Jimbo, still irrelevant after all these years.
Let's apply Jimbo's "Nordic Model" to other transactional areas. For instance, using his logic, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of illegal drugs. And, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of stolen merchandise. And, applying Jimmy's model to our nation's interests, we ought to punish the buyers (I. E. , foreign agents), rather than the sellers (I. E. , traitors), of secret national security information.
Jimbo is still the nitwit he always was. If he wants to keep doing good, he ought to go pound more nails (with Habitat for Humanity).
[B]Roman[/B]
Irrelevant, yes, but still respected
[QUOTE=RoaminRoman;2937259]Ol' Jimbo, still irrelevant after all these years.
Let's apply Jimbo's "Nordic Model" to other transactional areas. For instance, using his logic, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of illegal drugs. And, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of stolen merchandise. And, applying Jimmy's model to our nation's interests, we ought to punish the buyers (I. E. , foreign agents), rather than the sellers (I. E. , traitors), of secret national security information.
Jimbo is still the nitwit he always was. If he wants to keep doing good, he ought to go pound more nails (with Habitat for Humanity).
[B]Roman[/B][/QUOTE]I agree. The "Nordic model" makes little sense. Yet Jimmy Carter's argument could still carry some weight. Although many observers, including yours truly, consider him to be a failure as president, he's been transformed into an elder statesman and respected human rights activist over the last 30 years or so. It may take several court opinions to bring about changes in our prostitution laws.
BP fighting in the Supreme Court against a Congressional subpoena
[URL]http://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/web-site-asks-supreme-court-block-subpoena-sex-ads[/URL]
The battle is shaping up as free speech vs "anti-trafficking".
New Tactic Targeting The Demand Side
And by "demand side" I mean new LE tactics being used against review writers.
Here is a national news article:
[URL]http://www.marketplace.org/2016/09/16/world/battle-against-sex-trafficking-turns-prostitution-review-sites[/URL]
This could have a broad chilling effect on those of us who write reviews. So should we be worried here or on the oThER board?
I'm very curious to hear your opinions about this one. To me, it seems there are constitutional issues of freedom of speech and freedom of association.
In case the web link goes dead, here is the entire news article:
Battle against sex trafficking turns to prostitution review sites
By Sasha Aslanian
September 16, 2016 | 2:30 PM
Seattle, WA
Last year, Luke Hillman began meeting with a group of sex buyers. They were guys he met online.
Looking at them in a bar, you would have no idea, Hillman said. Theyre just normal guys.
The men worked for some of the regions most prominent employers: Microsoft, Boeing, Amazon. One was a radiologist. Another was a dentist.
During their meetups in local bars, the men would discuss their hobby hiring Korean prostitutes.
I remember sitting there the first time, and I was just like ... looking around, praying that nobody would see me sitting with these guys and would hear what they were saying, Hillman said.
The men didnt know that Hillman, the man they had invited into their elite circle, was actually an undercover detective.
Law enforcement is beginning to take notice of so-called John boards review sites where customers rate prostitutes. The men busted in this Seattle group earlier this year exposed a secretive world where online sex buyers are treading on a whole new level of criminal behavior.
The men had met on TheReviewBoard.net (that now leads to a notice saying it was seized by the King County Sheriff's Office). Its one of many sites across the country where men rate prostitutes. Investigators estimate the Review Board had between 15,000 and 20,000 members.
The men would describe a woman's weight, race, breast size, which sex acts she was willing to perform and her hourly rate.
Hillman wrote fake reviews and was invited to join a subgroup that called itself The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Police documents show they were spending $300 per session, multiple times a week.
The League attracted the attention of law enforcement not because its members bought a lot of sex, but because of how they worked together. The men wrote glowing reviews to draw customers to their favorite women. That kept the women in town longer and encouraged the seven agencies supplying the women to send new prospects their way.
So they were really operating as pimps, said Valiant Richey, a senior deputy prosecuting attorney for King County and one of the lead attorneys on the case. Theyre charged with promoting prostitution because they expanded the market, they facilitated visits to these women, they connected new buyers to the women and helped with the screening process."
After six months of undercover surveillance, law enforcement closed in. They busted eight brothels. A dozen Korean women were offered human trafficking victim services and released.
The leagues website and the larger website, the Review Board, were seized.
Weve just taken down one small tentacle of whats going on, said King County Sheriff John Urquhart at a news conference announcing the arrests in January. There are still umpteen websites out there that we havent gotten to yet.
Instead of charging the 16 league members with buying sex, a misdemeanor, they were charged with promoting prostitution a felony. More than half have pleaded guilty.
At his sentencing, one of the men, Paul Rhinehart, expressed remorse and said hed been drawn into friendships and lost perspective. I took on a misguided feeling that this was a community like other legitimate communities, he told the court.
About 15 percent of American men buy sex at some point. Only a small fraction of them are hobbyists like the men in Seattle. This review board is gone, but it has left a digital trail that could help law enforcement come to a better understanding of how frequent buyers operate.
Alex Trouteaud of youthSpark in Atlanta studied the data on North American sex buyers. He found 5 percent of them account for nearly half of illegal sex transactions.
In order to feed their habit, these buyers need to find new sources of sex and avoid the cops. That means they have to share intel.
'John boards are far and away the fastest and easiest place to find these individuals, Trouteaud said.
Prosecutors said the Seattle case opened up a new window into the sex trade, where internet crowdsourcing allows buyers to work together to blur the lines between supply and demand.
--30--
Again, I am mostly wondering if this makes anyone think twice about using this and other review boards?
Finally, I will say that I'm glad they at least freed some trafficking victims in doing all of this. But there has to be a better way to do that without infringing on civil liberties.
Derringer
Targeting the Demand Side
I read that article the other day and I too am concerned. First amendment as well as many other rights have been crushed as a result of the Government trying to control all "unacceptable" activity. For example, a John gets busted in a Backpage sting at a motel and is given a citation and a day in court. But his face is posted all over the news and in the paper just for the charge. The damage is done. Even if you beat the charge, your done if you have anything to lose. That's the way it works. If you have anything to lose Big Brother will take it right or wrong. They will twist any law to suit that purpose. And very few can fight back and win.
Stay as anonymous as possible
[QUOTE=RoaminRoman;3082167]As A2 and Jackson have reminded us on numerous occasions, the servers for this site are apparently located overseas and are, thus, much more difficult for US authorities to subpoena or seize. I'm not saying the risk to USASG members is zero, but I'd say that, based on A2's past explanations, we have a lot less to worry about than US-based server sites. Besides, writing a review does not equate to promoting anything. The guys in the article (I. E. , The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) were actually working with the agencies that supplied the Korean prostitutes, helping to coordinate the movement of the girls. Unless anyone on this board is doing that, there is little risk of anyone here being charged with a similar crime.[/QUOTE]Even though I am building a reputation as Bar Clamp on this site, I do everything I can to keep Bar Clamp and my personal I'd separate. I always use a VPN when accessing this site. Sure the NSA can probably figure out who I am but they are not interested in using their resources to go after dudes who like to rent pussy. Local LEOs aren't interested in busting through VPN firewalls, they want the low hanging fruit. Bottom line: keep your monger persona here separate from your real online identity.
Plenty, if not most, providers are voluntarily working
The anti-trafficking do-gooders seem to assume that most providers are being trafficked against their will. I haven't found that to be the case during my visits with providers. I'll give an example from my early days of mongering. At that time, I frequently traveled and checked out places in other areas during my travels. I recall visiting an American massage parlor where the provider told me she was using her earnings to pay for her tuition and living expenses while pursuing a college degree. A few years later I visited the same place and saw a different provider. I mentioned whom I'd previously seen and found out she completed her degree, relocated and was enjoying success in her new career. Good for her.
Hardly ever forced or coerced
[QUOTE=TomMcAn;3084036]The anti-trafficking do-gooders seem to assume that most providers are being trafficked against their will. I haven't found that to be the case during my visits with providers. I'll give an example from my early days of mongering. At that time, I frequently traveled and checked out places in other areas during my travels. I recall visiting an American massage parlor where the provider told me she was using her earnings to pay for her tuition and living expenses while pursuing a college degree. A few years later I visited the same place and saw a different provider. I mentioned whom I'd previously seen and found out she completed her degree, relocated and was enjoying success in her new career. Good for her.[/QUOTE]It might not be 100%, but it's probably close to 98% of those adults in this business are [B]not[/B] being trafficked or coerced. Among the Asian population, and especially at the Asian massage parlors, those in this business are in it by choice because of its lucrative nature. Oftentimes, the women are in need of quick funds in order to pay off a debt or to obtain some much-needed emergency funds, which obviates the need to obtain a loan. One of the "Asian MILFs" that I met recently said she was trying to earn some seed money to eventually open a small restaurant, while another said she needed some extra money because she was taking care of her mother. Now, again, these might have merely been nice stories but, if so, then one has to ask why the girls were even offering those explanations at all. And, with regard to non-citizens (Asians, in particular) come here to work because their earning potential is so much greater.
Authorities, as well as so-called "women's rights" advocates (who are all too often ugly feminists who can't get decent dates or lesbians who resent the fact that men are "subordinating" the women), often use the excuse of "trafficking" in order to up the ante and be able to levy more serious criminal charges. Misdemeanor charges against AMP owners do little to discourage or eliminate AMPs; felony charges give the authorities more latitude in seizing assets and charging the owners and operators. Because some authorities are lazy, or because the desired laws that would allow them to enact the penalties they desire are not in place, charging people with "trafficking" (which can elevate things to a federal level) gives them more flexibility. Even if such charges are eventually dropped or lessened, they can encourage the defendant to plea rather than fight the charges.
