"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2067725]Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted.

I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.[/QUOTE]Sorry for your loss brother but you did that to yourself. Cardinal rule is " NO $$ until the panties hit the floor " An exception is the M&G at which you treat the Pot to a nice dinner and drinks. PERIOD. Do not go shopping where you will be put in that awkward situation. And what's with going to a movie? I know we are all different, but what most of us want is to hit the FC as soon as possible, not sit in a movie, unless she is going to blow you in the back row. .

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say " if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on .

Instead say " I find you so sexy and you are my kind of girl. I would like to spend some private time together soon ".

She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. At this juncture you might say that " you will discuss her allowance at the same time you discuss physical activities. ".

My Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out". Of COURSE she does! She has already read you as an easy mark. You are probably a nice guy but be a little more demanding. You might say. I would like to begin an arrangement with you so that we can both get what we want. Let's discuss it right now.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2067758]Sorry for your loss brother but you did that to yourself. Cardinal rule is " NO $$ until the panties hit the floor " An exception is the M&G at which you treat the Pot to a nice dinner and drinks. PERIOD. Do not go shopping where you will be put in that awkward situation. And what's with going to a movie? I know we are all different, but what most of us want is to hit the FC as soon as possible, not sit in a movie, unless she is going to blow you in the back row. .

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say " if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on .

Instead say " I find you so sexy and you are my kind of girl. I would like to spend some private time together soon ".

She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. At this juncture you might say that " you will discuss her allowance at the same time you discuss physical activities. ".

My Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out". Of COURSE she does! She has already read you as an easy mark. You are probably a nice guy but be a little more demanding. You might say. I would like to begin an arrangement with you so that we can both get what we want. Let's discuss it right now.[/QUOTE]I don't mind doing dating activities (I.e., dinner and a movie) with a SB because, unlike a lot of my brothers, I'm single outside of the sugar bowl. So it's nice to have an attractive young lady to go and do things with other than hitting the FC. But I won't give sugar for just platonic dates, as I usually make clear. But since this girl assured me before our M&G that our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, it seemed like she was on board with being physical also. It wasn't until midway through this last date that she gave any indication that she wasn't sure what those mutual benefits would be.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2067776]I don't mind doing dating activities (I.e., dinner and a movie) with a SB because, unlike a lot of my brothers, I'm single outside of the sugar bowl. So it's nice to have an attractive young lady to go and do things with other than hitting the FC. But I won't give sugar for just platonic dates, as I usually make clear. But since this girl assured me before our M&G that our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, it seemed like she was on board with being physical also. It wasn't until midway through this last date that she gave any indication that she wasn't sure what those mutual benefits would be.[/QUOTE]I'm technically single, and really single when my girlfriend travels for weeks at a time. But yes, I'm like you in that I like to make a date of it. I probably wouldn't go to a movie with an SB unless there were a film I really wanted to see that I was planning to see by myself anyway. In other words once an SB is involved there's a chance she'll get to the theatre and go "oooh can we see that instead" and it's some chick flick with Julia Roberts in it or something. For that reason I just wouldn't do movies at all (See foot note at bottom). Also with most movies being around 2 hours in length, some of these girls may feel like they are doing you a favor by sitting in a dark theatre watching the movie (I.e. They gave you 2 hours of their company and should be thusly compensated).

I do highly recommend the dinner M&G, since of course you're enjoying half the cost for yourself and thus your potential loss is minimized, and it's how the typical first date starts out in a normal civvy dating online meeting anyway (in my experience I should say). You could save a few bucks by making it a lunch meeting, but I think you've got a better chance of going straight from dinner to the FC if it's dinner, and in the evening rather than during the day. The next question is simply where the FC is from there. I'm always traveling when I meet an SB, so I already have a hotel room that I'm set up in. When possible, it's nice to get a hotel that has a decent restaurant in or near it, because then the FC is just an elevator ride away. Nice hotels cost a little more, but if your stay is one night and a few more bucks per night puts you in such an easy position to slip away from the dinner table or bar straight to the room, it greatly increases your chance of scoring on the M&G so money well spent. Every time I've done this I've gotten laid and not one of them talked money before the act, I just gifted them after the fact.


foot note* I did want to qualify my "no movies" advice a bit and say that for the single guys, having a nice TV / home theatre system / digital cable or sat can be a big bonus in any sort of dating. I don't bring SBs back to my house these days because my GF, but I always found a nice TV set up goes a long way on the dates I did bring back. First because you can say "do you like porn?" and throw in a porn disc, and before you know it she'll have her hand in your zipper. All of this assumes of course that you know the girl well enough to let her know where you live, a risk that decreases dramatically when you're single. I never had a problem bringing civvy girls I just met at a bar home, but I would be a little more cautious about doing that on the first date with SBs, maybe that's just me. Also if its someone you want to see more, the TV inspires her to come visit more often because she most likely has a crappy TV with limited channels wherever she lives, even if she streams Netflix to her tablet or whatever... once she gets the remote and starts channel flipping she'll get absorbed and stick around a while.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2067725]Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted. We had a nice M&G that went well, so this week we agree to meet up for dinner and a movie at local mall, and since we'd have some time between the two, I'd figure we'd walk around the mall for a while also. After we sit down for dinner, she tells me she may not be able to go to the movie after all, because she's busy studying for finals and stuff. I understand and agree to just dinner and walking around the mall. While we're in the middle of eating, she asks how I handle allowances and such. I felt uncomfortable discussing this with people around us in the restaurant, so I deflect her question. After we're done eating and we start walking around the mall, I ask her if dates will be platonic or what? Keep in mind, she assured me our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but as of yet, there have been no discussions of what her idea of that is. She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. Fair enough, but my Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out".

So we go into a store and I want to find a couple of new shirts for myself. She helps me pick out a couple, then she's walking around the store getting a few things for herself. I think that she's going to be buying the stuff for herself, but when we go to checkout, she puts the stuff right in with my shirts I picked out. Not wanting to make a scene in front of the cashier and not wanting to discuss our lack of agreed upon arrangement in such a public place, I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.[/QUOTE]If you haven't discussed anything sexual at all prior to the meet and greet then there is no reason to have one.

18 to19 - hot looking, hard to get, usually not great in bed, but fun to play with.

20 to 22 - got, getting or wanting to get their skills up. Much easier to get going with asap.

23 to 27 - obviously more experienced but the financial needs are starting to get bigger.

Over 27 - don't go there too often. Much harder to find the true spinners in there. And the ones that still are put a greater dollar value on their looks.

Will not have an allowanced (is that a word?) SB if she has a kid. Too many expenses.

Walruscl:

I think "Max" is right on with a few tips on Threesomes.

1. Let the SB be "in charge" of the 3rd player, if the chemistry isn't there then nobody is having fun.

2. Strip Club as a "trolling" spot. If it is a good, fully nude preferable club, going (or suggesting to go) with your SB can be a way to confirm "what kind of girl would you be interested in? Which gives you the innocent opportunity to take the SB to a club, buy some lap dances for HER (the SB) from strippers she is attracted to, and see what happens. Many strippers are bi, and with your SB making the shots and you taking a more passive role you will find out quickly what your SB has as preferences. Plus you will have a great evening after you leave the club!

If your SB is in charge of the 3rd player, if things don't work out it's not your idea. If you have limited personal availability for the SB this all may be too complicated from the start. Good luck!

Stay Safe!!

PR.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2055327]I have had 20+ threesomes. I'm actually not that into them because there is only one of me and they rarely turn out as good as planned. Very few sexual experiences are as good if they require too much planning and threesomes usually require a lot of planning. It works best when it is the girls idea. The best times I've had is taking a girl to s stripclub and she really hit it off with a dancer who decided to come home with us.

In summary, it needs to be the girls call, but you can create the right environment (going to a strip club togetheer). Always best if it is more spontaneous and involves a woman I'm very interested in.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

My sweet spot seems to be about 22-23, but there are always exceptions. Met an 18 year old white-blonde-spinner off of CL (one of the few times it has not been a total waste). She was on the fast track to UTR if not already there. Texted back and forth for a couple of weeks before she asked me to come pick her up at her apartment complex. I got there and had to ask for her I'd, just to be sure. Took her back to my place and she proceeded to blow me away. I broke out a toy, she showed me some light bondage pics of herself she had had taken (I'm sure that guy had a good afternoon as well) and we played very nicely together. She talked about wanting to be a porn star, and two minutes later about how she wanted a SD who really cared about her. I tried to plant the thought that I was that guy for her, but she is too scattered or too busy working other guys off of CL to bite. I have been trying to setup a follow-up for over a month with no luck, she always responds to texts quickly and wants to get together, but is always "at my Nana's house" (seriously) or getting high, or whatever. Anyway, it was a great one-off.

Some very interesting reading here gentlemen. I feel the need to add some of my rules to all the good advice that has been offered. I always let a POT know that I do not pay for anyone to sit and have conversation with me. If I want to just do that, I can stay home with my wife. As Fred stated, no $$ until the panties hit the floor. I always meet them in public for a cocktail or lunch before taking them to the fc. I usually make that a separate date as I do not like to commit to the fc with them until I talk with them first. More than once they turn out to be mental patients I would rather not get involved with. The maximum I will start out with is $150. If they are looking for more, I tell them they can show me why they deserve more, but we are starting out at that. Only twice have I gone to $200, and that was because both ended up just being amazing. I also have some strict communication rules. If they are challenged with that, I move on. I will not spend any time trying to chase them down because they care little about my time. Also, they need to be able to tell time and be on time. Most of us have "windows of opportunity" to see them. Constant tardiness is an insult. Again, I move on to the next one.

Remember, the pool is full of new SB talent. None of them are so good that we need to accept any of their bullshit. I hope this is of value here.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2068246]My sweet spot seems to be about 22-23, but there are always exceptions. Met an 18 year old white-blonde-spinner off of CL (one of the few times it has not been a total waste). She was on the fast track to UTR if not already there. Texted back and forth for a couple of weeks before she asked me to come pick her up at her apartment complex. I got there and had to ask for her I'd, just to be sure. Took her back to my place and she proceeded to blow me away. I broke out a toy, she showed me some light bondage pics of herself she had had taken (I'm sure that guy had a good afternoon as well) and we played very nicely together. She talked about wanting to be a porn star, and two minutes later about how she wanted a SD who really cared about her. I tried to plant the thought that I was that guy for her, but she is too scattered or too busy working other guys off of CL to bite. I have been trying to setup a follow-up for over a month with no luck, she always responds to texts quickly and wants to get together, but is always "at my Nana's house" (seriously) or getting high, or whatever. Anyway, it was a great one-off.[/QUOTE]I know, not long ago I had a one off (technically two) that was freakin amazing. I put her in my top ten of all time. She told me I was her last client. She was a pro and already retired (only 22) due to being married and wanting to start a family. She was on the sd site for maybe one day (due to financial issues). The bigger point is, if you truly can catch them on the first day, be ready to follow up immediately, because by the second or third day they realize this is not what they want to do. YMMV but its so worth it. No future in it. But a great memory all the same. I have seen 9 quality level girls do this. Can't count how many I let slip through my fingers because they were an hour drive I just could"t make that day. Sometimes it's about feeling desperate for money, sometimes curiosity or sometimes it's just "fuck the world (or guys in general), I am going to do what I want to do". And then they never do it again. Or they step it up and you cant afford them anymore. A 9 quality girl that i passed on that I met through a friend, that started by doing $ BBFS sessions, is now up to a K a day only a year later. Lately the game has me worn out. I am seriously considering just looking for a hot older girl if I can find the right one (no kids please) to be my next sb, a true np that just needs a little something extra now and then.

Did Fred hit the nail on the head or what?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2067758]Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say "if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Golfcart;2068320]Did Fred hit the nail on the head or what?[/QUOTE]Yep. You lay the ground rules, not her. Most women are attracted to authority (overwhelmingly true of SBs), and the more you can exert (while of course remaining tactful and charming) the more it will work to your advantage.

It's a delicate balance; you don't ask her what she wants to do, and you don't tell her what she has to do... You suggest what the two of you WILL do in a way that sounds like you've got it all worked out and she will respect you for it, be more attracted to you for it, and most of the time it will work out in your favor. Exceptions will occur but you take the losses with the wins. Women are women and the game is the game. Sharpen your skills in the sugarbowl and it will help you in general interactions with women and dating (and vice versa). It doesn't matter if there is money in an envelope on the table or not -- women just are what they are and it's about understanding what they think and respect.

I am back in bowl and now feel that I know some old tricks. Well...here is one SB ...

SB: I'm driving through Saturday, let's meet for lunch.

Me: ok.

SB: Are you interested in more than one girl? I have my friend I'm traveling with.

Me: Well, tell me what you like to do. Also allowance info. I prefer to meet you only but if you send me info we will discuss.

- now I know what's coming next, after couple of back and forth text.

Me: I will give allowance only after our date is over.

SB: Well I am ok with allowance on nightstand, I should be able to see it.

Me: I can't keep it there. I can show the allowance and then will keep it in safe place! It will be given to you after the date. That's how it will work.

-- I said I had some bad experience with such situation.

No reply...no talk afterwards.

I guess someone else is getting into this trap..be careful...!

What's up with all SBs here...they are asking 0.5+ hmmm..getting tough to fish.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2068825]I am back in bowl and now feel that I know some old tricks. Well...here is one SB ...

SB: I'm driving through Saturday, let's meet for lunch.

Me: ok.

SB: Are you interested in more than one girl? I have my friend I'm traveling with.
[/QUOTE]I don't even consider that type an SB, it's just an escort posing as an SB.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2068892]I don't even consider that type an SB, it's just an escort posing as an SB.[/QUOTE]Yes, this was supposed to be a SB meeting as she said marketing director and come to Richmond every week.

I feel like I have just experienced a convergence of several discussions over the past few days.

First, like many I'm based in RIC. I have been in the bowl for over four years and have been fortunate to meet a couple exceptional ladies. Fred and I have lamented the loss of a couple superior SBs. One 10 that we both saw at different times, Fred's ATF from a nearby town and my MILF third grade teacher who saw me and one other then quit. As one who likes an emotional connection with the individuals we seek to bang, I found myself somewhat depressed after losing my MILF third grade teacher after only two amazing sessions.

Girls from CL.

There has been some discussion about the girls on CL. Most pros and fakes. I have had some luck on CL both from ads and responses. Recently the warden was out of town and I was looking for some strange. I answered an ad on CL from my area. She immediately answered saying she was looking for two or more guys. I responded that I was a generous white male and could help her. She responded positively. I suggested we meet at a local store halfway between us. She agreed. We met at the store and she jumped in my car. She is a beautiful 19 YO with an amazing smile and open disposition. I took her to my office. After ten minutes of chatting I suggested we had too many clothes on. She giggled and removed her top. I told her to lay on the desk and relax. I grabbed some lotion from my desk and gave her a back massage. After about ten minutes I reached around and unbuttoned her shorts and slid them down to her ankles and began working on her backside. She started moaning and moving her ass in my with each thrust of my hands. Long story short, I banged her on my assistant's desk to the satisfaction of both of us. There was absolutely no talk of sugar to this point.

When I dropped her off at her car I asked to see her wallet. She gave it to me without question. I opened it and there was only one dollar. I put in $ and gave it back to her saying I wanted her to be my SB. She just laughed and said fucking in the office got her off.

The next week I had a free afternoon and sent her a text asking what she was doing. She said she was about to take a shower. I asked if I could join her. She said to come on over and gave me her address. I went to a VERY upscale house near me. It was her mom's house that she shared with her brother. He mom mostly stayed with her BF. I too was expecting Chris Hanson except for the previous encounter. She met me at the door in a terrycloth robe and a smile from ear to ear. We went to her room and started where we left off. After the first session I suggested we take a shower together. We washed each other and concluded with an oral session the likes of which I have not experienced in years. We went back to her bed and finished with the best BJ I have ever had.

As we were laying in bed reflecting on the past two hours, she admitted that she was exploring her sexuality and wanted to experience new things. Sex in an office was checked off her list and she liked the idea of a SD. She told me of several other fantasies which I hope to fulfill this spring and summer.

It is so nice to be back in the game! Yes, you can find a diamond on occasion on CL...

Happy Hunting!