"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Twas an incredibly busy week. My meeting with the young single mom spinner went well and we progressed to FC this week. She is black and does not make eye contact which is one of those cultural things in the south, have to work on that. What I don't have to work on is skills. The best, and I mean best BBBJ I can remember, soft and slow designed to tease me not make me pop. She was having fun, had to pull her off to move on. At the end of it she thanked me for her "new favorite position". Nothing special but guessing it means she does not have a lot of experience. For my part, she was good in all the positions $ for the visit, emailed today wanting to see me again Monday. Here is a pic...

The Columbian left me bruised battered and satisfied again on Wed. Hard to say no to someone that truly loves to fuck, but she needs someone 10 years younger than me.

New potential married mom, met and talked. She wants adventure, wanted an allowance of $50 per week. I don't do allowances but my math was really good on that one. Supposed to meet for FC next week.

Had an appointment with the 10 for today but my SO woke up horny and got hers so I cancelled. Told the 10 I was expecting more than she was giving and she said she would do better. Set for Tuesday.

[QUOTE=HappyLover;2038698] What would you do? HL.[/QUOTE]HL, this situation has run off the tracks at so many levels. The age thing is way out of balance. Take your age difference and play it forward to a woman that much older than you and see what you see. That's what she sees. There are likely differences in background here that cannot be overcome except in the short term. This is not something feelings can be based on. HL makes no mention of a cultural difference yet a cultural difference is often present. These things don't necessarily get in the way of a one-night stand or maybe short-term, but HL is looking more long term. HL is clearly invested in something his game cannot produce on it's own and that's asking a lot when it comes to more than a few encounters.

What do I think HL should do? He should back off and spend his time reading this board from Post No. 1 to now and take notes. He will see what ideas work and what doesn't and he'll see his ideas in the group that doesn't work, and more importantly, why. And he'll see posters making the same mistakes over and over and refusing to learn. He'll see himself in some of those posts. He'll see his future from being on their path.

So I'm not being cryptic in the above, stop seeing this girl and read the darn board from start to finish to become smarter. And never fall for a girl it takes money to meet in the first place. And never try to fix anybody. Always keep your real identity away from the girls.

The only proper use of pay for play is to get a girl on the quick and for the short term we could not get any other way and enjoy reliving the memory. Then get another and do the same. This board has the "22 Rules of Street Mongering." If we had 22 Rules of Sugarbabyhood this statement should make the list (if I do say so myself) (hold the applause). I feel that strongly about it.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2040107]I think those who are either married or in a committed relationship have more reason to hide their age and names. But then again I believe the girls have the same right to privacy. I never ask them their last names, where they work, how old they are, etc.[/QUOTE]Married or single. Definitely two different games. I am sure I would get busted as my secret agent skills are sorely lacking. And actually was busted multiple times when I was married.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2040174]Married or single. Definitely two different games. I am sure I would get busted as my secret agent skills are sorely lacking. And actually was busted multiple times when I was married.[/QUOTE]I always just assume she wants the same level of anonymity that I do (as someone who has a long-time girlfriend that I don't want to lose). I figure it never hurts to start out with anonymity, and open up to the person gradually as mutual trust is gained.

However, in HL's case for example, it can become difficult to know whether to reveal your age so late in the arrangement, after already knowing her for so long and banging her many times. I would be thinking "why is she asking now?". Seems almost like fishing for a reason to end it. So, in that case I'd say maybe its just a calculated risk that we have to decide for ourselves how to handle based on our own situation or expectations.

To show how broad the spectrum can be -- I had one recently who impressed me so much, in initial communication and in the dinner M&G, that I just volunteered my age to see if it impacted her interest in me. It didn't phase her, I was glad.

However, another recent date impressed me in the initial communication, but in the M&G I got a visceral feeling that I need to be careful, just based on some of the questions she was asking me. Later on I was able to find this girls FB profile, and realized something is seriously wrong with her. Lots of morbid photos involving murder, suicide, revenge against males, etc. What was scarier was that all of the weird multimedia she was putting up seem to be occurring only in the past several months, like this was something new (signs of potential mental illness setting in maybe). So I was really glad I never gave that girl my real name or age.

[QUOTE=Varoom;2039186]Like the boxing referee always states in the ring about rules, "protect yourself at ALL times". HL, it seems as though you may be leaving your left a little low and be apt to catch one on the chin here (emotionally). Sounds like your baby is somewhat excited at the prospects of being with a younger guy and from a completely unattached view I say "let her have her way". Be scarce and out of the picture, if things turn up bad for her or she ends up missing what you've been adding to the mix and she finds herself missing those things then let her come back to you.

This is easy to advise since I have no emotional attachment here, but it sounds like you've gotten into this pretty deep and that isn't usually a good idea. This has been evidenced by others here before but fortunately the feelings you have at the moment will pass. Wish you the best on getting thru this HL. V.[/QUOTE]Varoom has some really good words here. Remember there is nothing you can do to compel her impress her or convince to want to see you. But there is a lot you can do to keep her from seeing you. Primarily things like trying to compel her convince her or impress her. It s literally like Kryptonite to a woman.

At the same time I hate to see such a quality piece of ass go. But you need to remember they all go eventually. I believe that you are much more emotionally involved. Than you are willing to admit. Take it from someone who has been there. It sucks.

Now I do have a story about my first of only two ATFs and how she left me cold. What I did was simple. First no contact for two months. No questions no hellos nothing. Then I slowly started sending her little snippets of my fun and interesting life that did not involve her just like nothing was different and not talking or communicating with her in any other way. Just a picture of me in some other city or at a sporting event or having fun with friends. Maybe a few pics with some hot women. Just being fun and interesting. After about two months of this she called me. We got back together and I acted like nothing had changed. It did not last though they never really do. She may come back to you. It's almost guaranteed that the young guy she is interested in will fuck it up with her and she may call you. But don't hole your breath. Hot women have so many options to choose from.

Like was said above keep your guard up. And stop trying to save her and help her. If you do talk with her tell her don't ask what you want from her not how you can help her. Don't kiss her ass she will appreciate it. Believe me. She does not want some older guy bringing her soup. She wants a man that is unmoved if she leaves him. And goes on with his own life maybe even with another woman. She wants a man that does not care if she walks because he knows these things do not last. Understand that I have played your game many times before and it is a losing hand.

Good luck and find some new POTs.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2039973]I too am often mistaken for being 15 years younger, and I have experienced age discrimination in regular dating situations (I recently wrote about an experience where a girl half my age flirted with me in a nightclub, got to the point of kissing even, before asking my age then bolted after she learned it, and there was no question what killed the buzz). It is a shitty feeling to experience.

In my online profiles I tend to put my age in 7-12 years younger. The biggest reason has more to do with privacy than increasing my marketability to SBs. I've seen some sites that actually reveal the full DOB you put in, which I think is nuts. Then as far as maintaining the lie with the SB I handle that on a case by case basis. If they ask, I usually tell them I am whatever age the site says I am just to remove an element that might make them uncomfortable. Normally I see no reason to give them my real age or anything else that would help them, or one of their boyfriends or SD's identify me or make life difficult for me.

Recently I broke that trend only because I met a SPECTACULAR SB, and I voluntarily told her my real age and reasons for putting false info in my profile on the site over dinner, knowing it could possibly lessen her attraction for me. Fortunately in that case, it did not impact our chemistry which got better as the night went on (I'm going to write about this epic experience once I figure out why my last lengthy report went missing).

In fact, I later asked her what she liked best about me and she mentioned a few physical traits but also said she loved my openness, and straightforwardness.

So my point to this is that honesty about your age can work against you in many ways, so I say be careful who you give real info to. On the other hand maintaining lies is mental baggage to me, so if it's someone I think I might want to know beyond one or two dates I might just make things real early on and put all truths on the table.[/QUOTE]So my current ATF and yes I am finally giving her ATF status, my little Italian Princess. Has officially captured the title. And I am being exclusive with just her for now. Was amazed when I told her my age of 53. She said she thought I was 40. I have always had a young appearance and combined with the salt and pepper and some exercise. I am feeling better now than I did when I was 25. And the sex is so much better and stamina is over the top. I can control when I come and where. Used to be when a woman gave me a blow job it was over in about a minute. Now I can sit back and enjoy it and really feel everything she is doing. And she has told me several times that I am doing her right. I think this last thing is what pushed me over the edge to declare her my ATF.

So things are going really really well. She is not perfect by she fills most of my needs very very well. She is absolutely gorgeous, she has been published in a couple of magazines and does promotional modeling in addition to her regular job. I am giving her after careful consideration and counting all of the ballots a 9.5/9.5/9/8. And like Hollywood we are working together to get that 8 up to a 9. She is a very willing participant in anything I want to do except anal which I don't care about. Because she has the most perfect pussy it is tighter than any pussy I have ever been in. It actually feels tight when I put one finger in. She gives great head and is very happy to jump on my dick at a moments notice and swallows every drop with a smile. Her communication skills are actually ok when you consider her busy schedule and how she is getting pulled in multiple directions by her family work and regular friends.

The biggest issue right now is we are fucking a lot. So that is many hotels. And it is high season in Florida so I am getting killed by hotel bills. And using up a lot of points. But she is actually helping me with that. She is planning on moving from her Aunts house to her own place with roommates so we will be able to meet at her place and not have to worry about family issues. This will save me over 600 per month. What a fucking cool chick. A little hard with her language but she is definitely softening up. And that is a good sign also. She is also telling her friends about me and is possibly setting one up for threesome. She loves threesomes with girls.

Oh and good question lizard. I asked my ATF the same question a few weeks back what does she like about me. And she said that I was chill, no pressure, not trying to prove anything. She said you are who you are. And that's it. Believe me it is not about looks. I am no Brad Pitt. But you don't need to be. Women love this my brothers.

Sure I may be bragging a bit but you have read about all of my failures on her also. Its been a long road my brothers since I have had a real quality piece of ass like this one. There are a few out there. But not many. Of course I was asking for a lot.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=HappyLover;2040010]I was actually surprised by how surprised she was at my age. I'm envious of you for being mistaken for being much younger than you are. This is an exception to the rule for me. When people try to guess my age, they usually hit it dead on. In setting up online profiles, I usually only knock off a couple of years for privacy sake. I'd knock off more, but I didn't think it would be believable until now.

For those with an SO, you can't post your actual photos. Where do you find your look a like snap shots? No photo diminishes interest. A photo that is too far off will net you a SB that may put be off at the m&g. It seems like a fine line.[/QUOTE]Sorry I missed this one. In public photos I either mask or blur my face. Something that shows my overall body and just gives them a general idea. It's not particularly enticing, but a lot of the SB's do this too for privacy reasons, and you can meet some real gems by not ignoring them just because you can't see them well in a public photo. To some extent, attempts to hide the photo are a good indication the person is for real.

I would not use a look alike photo -- as you said it will probably come back to haunt you when you meet her. I've had a number of dates where they immediately express relief that they are looking at the person in the photos, and they tell me stories of fake photos. I would be extremely put off if a SB sent me a lookalike and showed up as someone else, even if the real her was equally as attractive. So, use photos that hide you well enough for initial contact, then privately exchange photos via e-mail or text. Some of the websites like SA let you have public and private photos which is a good way to handle that efficiently.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2040388] I am giving her after careful consideration and counting all of the ballots a 9.5/9.5/9/8. [/QUOTE]Can we get a pic please? Even from the back, definitely face covered if from the front. Cali and florida girls and maybe NY and vegas are definitely the hottest.

Texts you never want to get from a sugar baby: Literally just took a pregnancy test and I'm pregnant. I don't know how since we used a condom and I'm on birth control but it happened.

If she's telling the truth, it's a less than 1 percent chance of happening. Either I have super sperm, or I'm being played for $475 in abortion pill money. So, do I pay it or wait four more weeks to take a paternity test? I would see to it if she was local, but she lives 8 hours away from me.

I usually never post about POTS because I really don't care to share about something that hasn't even happened yet. But I thought I would share this story.

As I target only the new girls, Many times if you don't catch them on the first day or two they are long gone. Way more than half the girls that post never go on a date or return any messages they get. I blanket message every new girl that fits my demographic with the exact same form letter to introduce myself and what I am willing to pay and what I expect from them. Sure enough one of the replies comes from a girl that deletes her profile after 3 days.

She has a good job and her own apartment. Just before our first M&G she tells me she is bringing a GF to make her feel safe. I tell her no way and cancel the date. About a week later she finally agrees to see me for a light dinner. By the end of the dinner I am thinking, maybe maybe she is hot enough to have a play date, and she says she will think about it and get back to me. No problem.

The next day she says she thought about it and wants to meet that night. I tell her I am busy and lets schedule it for the weekend. I call her yesterday and she says we are on, but she feels weird about doing it in her apt, so I agree to pick her up and go back to my place.

So after agreeing to the time and place she says "Oh and you were going to give me $$$$.5 for the date, right? I say no and to please go back and look at my original message to her offering her a $. She says she didn't save it and to please just email it to her. After receiving it she says this can't be the original message I sent because she would never have agreed to the $ offer. But then counters with how about $$. I respectfully decline. And so it ended right there. Stayed home, saved the money and on to the next one.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2041675]I usually never post about POTS because I really don't care to share about something that hasn't even happened yet. But I thought I would share this story.

[/QUOTE]I have read your techniques and you seem most successful; question, what is your average damage per date? Excluding dinner and incidentals?

[QUOTE=Rainjam;2041690]I have read your techniques and you seem most successful; question, what is your average damage per date? Excluding dinner and incidentals?[/QUOTE]Although I offer $ per date. If you add in everything (including dinner and incidentals) but excluding gas I am closer to $.3 per date overall for every girl combined. Mostly that is due to my ATF who I do spend more on. I recently stopped seeing my MILF due to the higher costs incurred from always needing to get a room. She is supposed to be getting a new place where that won't be necessary. But until then I have cut her off. Also most of my dates are basically spent in the FC so there are no dinners, etc. I only hangout with 2 of my girls. My ATF who I call my GF and my roommate. And in their cases all the money I spend goes to dinner, CVS, cel phone bill, and salon trips, etc. I never actually hand them any hard cash at all, and I mean never.

My roommate has a new SD that is averaging about $$ to $$$ a day to hang out with her. And my ATF makes about 2k a month after taxes at her job and lives rent free with her folks. So neither of them is exactly hurting. They are both basically debt free.

But I will say that this has only happened after 5 years of DAILY cruising and averaging 2 to 4 new meetups a month. I am too embarrassed to say what I spent before that. This month I even started up with a 5/6/9/9 at .5 just to bring down my costs. And I do wish I could go to $$ a date as I am missing out on a lot of 8, 9 and even 10 quality girls due to strict financial constraints and wanting to date daily. If I only wanted to date lets say 10 or 15 times a month, I would have no trouble going to $$ a date. But I get bored too easy and hate being alone. I really only have 2 interests in life and that is work and dating. I try to do both 7 days a week but usually average about 6 on the dating side.

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2041659]Texts you never want to get from a sugar baby: Literally just took a pregnancy test and I'm pregnant. I don't know how since we used a condom and I'm on birth control but it happened.

If she's telling the truth, it's a less than 1 percent chance of happening. Either I have super sperm, or I'm being played for $475 in abortion pill money. So, do I pay it or wait four more weeks to take a paternity test? I would see to it if she was local, but she lives 8 hours away from me.[/QUOTE]I can only tell you what I would do -- tell her to do what she need to do, send you all original copies of paperwork and you will reimburse her at 2 x the rate. Yes a grand isn't cheap but if she's lying you pay nothing and if she's not lying, a grand will buy you both peace of mind that you got out of the situation, and peace of mind of not wondering whether or not you got rolled for half the amount.

And yes I've been in this situation, though technically not a SB (just a mistress that I occasionally helped back in the days when I was married... problem was she was in love with me so she had a much bigger reason than money to play me for a fool).

And don't let her tell you she doesn't have money for the upfront medical costs. I've never seen a healthcare provider that didn't have payment terms available.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2041824]I can only tell you what I would do -- tell her to do what she need to do, send you all original copies of paperwork and you will reimburse her at 2 x the rate. Yes a grand isn't cheap but if she's lying you pay nothing and if she's not lying, a grand will buy you both peace of mind that you got out of the situation, and peace of mind of not wondering whether or not you got rolled for half the amount.

And yes I've been in this situation, though technically not a SB (just a mistress that I occasionally helped back in the days when I was married... problem was she was in love with me so she had a much bigger reason than money to play me for a fool).

And don't let her tell you she doesn't have money for the upfront medical costs. I've never seen a healthcare provider that didn't have payment terms available.[/QUOTE]She said she's going to put it on her credit card, She just wants me to pay her back. I am going to ask for documentation. I told her that I would send her the money once everything was taken care of.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2041824]I can only tell you what I would do -- tell her to do what she need to do, send you all original copies of paperwork and you will reimburse her at 2 x the rate. Yes a grand isn't cheap but if she's lying you pay nothing and if she's not lying, a grand will buy you both peace of mind that you got out of the situation, and peace of mind of not wondering whether or not you got rolled for half the amount.

And yes I've been in this situation, though technically not a SB (just a mistress that I occasionally helped back in the days when I was married... problem was she was in love with me so she had a much bigger reason than money to play me for a fool).

And don't let her tell you she doesn't have money for the upfront medical costs. I've never seen a healthcare provider that didn't have payment terms available.[/QUOTE]Planned parenthood average cost about $$$ Low income qualified women in los angeles only have to pay $100.