Non Pro's

New guy here, though not new to the scene. Finally found this after all the whispers on sugarlifestyleforum. I started out interested in the hobby several years ago and lurked around. I dipped my toes in and felt it wasn't for me. After a while I heard about Seeking Arrangements and found it was more my speed. I've been on and off for 3 years, started with using it to line up dates when traveling for work then moved into meeting locals for regular ongoing arrangements. I've hooked up with 15 women, two of those were 3-4 month weekly meetups and my most recent was 9 months long which ended recently. I'm mid-40's and married. I've always done PPM, at $300 or $400 depending on situation. I aim for a fun, casual dating vibe and avoid any pro signals. Had some really cool and gorgeous girls. I'm testing the waters again and what I'm experiencing and reading on this forum isn't encouraging. Seems like everything else, pussy inflation is real. I've enjoyed the commentary and intel here and I'll see if I can contribute.

I don't mean to "cool story bro" ya as I've heard a few times about guys getting "free" action. But I'm always straight up, respectful, basically treat things like a vanilla first date. I'm reasonably attractive and present myself well. I've met dozens of women off Seeking and never been offered sex for free. Then again I'm not playing dumb about the site and usually acknowledge up front about being "mutually beneficial". I'm probably doing it wrong!

[QUOTE=TnaPorter;5768340]I still don't believe that. I mean, I've done the SA thing for a while and I can tell it's a real struggle out there for them. I've never met a girl on there who wasn't excited / relieved at how nice I was and that I actually had money. They come in with really high hopes and expectations and then get shot down because it just doesn't play out like the TikToks say it will. I would say that at least 90% of the time, if you treat those girls like human beings, they not only don't cost that much but you'll get some really good service and sometimes even get to have them just because you took them to lunch. There's no doubt that a ton of those girls have borderline PTSD from what guys on there have done to them. I've heard stories about how guys promised them some amount of money, then they end up fucking them really rough, spitting on them, verbally degrading them, and then throwing them $40 as they walk out.

I'm not a hot guy. I'm a 5'4" asian with a tiny dick and there's zero reason why these women should be hitting me up to go to dinner and fuck for free afterwards (yeah, I still consider that free) but it happens all the time. If you want my guess as to the greatest deficiency in guys on there, it's that they don't know how to talk. You have to listen, ask relevant questions, and give thoughtful responses. Some guys on here call it game, but I just call it not being socially inept. If you do that, I would say that the great majority of the time, the SA girl will fuck you for way, way less than she would a typical guy on there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BugManLet;5782697]I don't mean to "cool story bro" ya as I've heard a few times about guys getting "free" action. But I'm always straight up, respectful, basically treat things like a vanilla first date. I'm reasonably attractive and present myself well. I've met dozens of women off Seeking and never been offered sex for free. Then again I'm not playing dumb about the site and usually acknowledge up front about being "mutually beneficial". I'm probably doing it wrong![/QUOTE]I've met a few people off seeking who would vanilla date / fuck for free. Not as common as this but it does happen.

If you lead a legit "baller" lifestyle it's a lot easier. (e. G. Michelin Star restaurants (don't get me started on Seattle food scene, sucks ass), penthouse / nice apartment in city, vacations at 5 star hotels) vs "upper middle class with some spending money".

I'm not like super high income and not knocking anybody on SA, but 200 k income vs even upper 6 figures is a huge lifestyle difference that SBs can pick up on.

Also if you're 5'2 but in shape and not embarrassing to be seen in public with vs old / fat / dress poorly it can make a big difference too.

[QUOTE=BugManLet;5782688]New guy here, though not new to the scene. Finally found this after all the whispers on sugarlifestyleforum. I started out interested in the hobby several years ago and lurked around. I dipped my toes in and felt it wasn't for me. After a while I heard about Seeking Arrangements and found it was more my speed. I've been on and off for 3 years, started with using it to line up dates when traveling for work then moved into meeting locals for regular ongoing arrangements. I've hooked up with 15 women, two of those were 3-4 month weekly meetups and my most recent was 9 months long which ended recently. I'm mid-40's and married. I've always done PPM, at $300 or $400 depending on situation. I aim for a fun, casual dating vibe and avoid any pro signals. Had some really cool and gorgeous girls. I'm testing the waters again and what I'm experiencing and reading on this forum isn't encouraging. Seems like everything else, pussy inflation is real. I've enjoyed the commentary and intel here and I'll see if I can contribute.[/QUOTE]LOL welcome! I've found if you are flexible on 500 you can pull a lot of the hotter girls. I usually open 400 if girl looks pricey and go up to 500 if she asks so she can "win" the negotiation. Doesn't work every time, but a good portition of girls are open to it and may negotiate down later. If they don't just move on.

Hopefully I'm not getting priced out of the game. I'm not embarrassed to admit that I've always been a bit if a poseur of a "sugar daddy". I had some windfalls I diverted and cash squirreled away that I had a couple years of fun but my well is low at the moment. I had no trouble finding attractive white girls at $3-400 PPM for 3-4 hour dates. But I play in Pierce / Kitsap and never chat with Seattle / Bellevue girls. Maybe like in real estate your money goes farther out of the city. I've also had good Seeking experiences in Yakima, Walla Walla and Spokane while traveling.

[QUOTE=MrPumpNDump;5783385]LOL welcome! I've found if you are flexible on 500 you can pull a lot of the hotter girls. I usually open 400 if girl looks pricey and go up to 500 if she asks so she can "win" the negotiation. Doesn't work every time, but a good portition of girls are open to it and may negotiate down later. If they don't just move on.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Irwin18;5782351]Wow. Yaz quoted me four. Do you think it's a scam?[/QUOTE]I think she may be dropping the price after not finding any takers at 600?.

So coming from the Reddit board the refrain there is always "yeah SA is awful but it's the only game in town" and I believed that. But your comment got me curious and I created a SB profile and here's my thoughts as a newb so far.

There are a lot of appealing profiles, way more than I expected. I recognize many from SA but lots of unique ones to SB. Even saw a woman I hooked up with in 2020 who dropped off SA but is active on SB.

In two weeks I've received 60 first messages from mostly local girls with my very low effort profile. Many are cute. I'm SA I would get 60 messages from Venezuela, out of state and a handful of local pros or uglies. Anything good I needed to message first.

But I'm suspicious by this as the site wants you to burn credits unlocking conversations. So far I haven't gotten great follow up to my replies other than girls sharing private photos which also burns credits to unlock. My hunch is lots of bots to part you with your credits!

So I'm now being very selective with what conversations I pursue and not bothering with viewing private photos.

I do really like the video verification and short videos! Amazing how many girls have decent photos but look like shit in their videos! This alone saves a lot of wasted time. Man I wish SA had been doing this.

So far haven't met anyone off the site but it seems promising, at least worth a try.

[QUOTE=MarkoRamius;5761218]Like any SB site, there are lots of fake profiles. But no more than usual.

And since [URL]seeking.com[/URL] appears to be imploding (banning more guys, raising membership fees on the ones they haven't yet banned) it is best to move on to greener pastures.

I have had no trouble finding real and willing girls there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BugManLet;5784034]Hopefully I'm not getting priced out of the game. I'm not embarrassed to admit that I've always been a bit if a poseur of a "sugar daddy". I had some windfalls I diverted and cash squirreled away that I had a couple years of fun but my well is low at the moment. I had no trouble finding attractive white girls at $3-400 PPM for 3-4 hour dates. But I play in Pierce / Kitsap and never chat with Seattle / Bellevue girls. Maybe like in real estate your money goes farther out of the city. I've also had good Seeking experiences in Yakima, Walla Walla and Spokane while traveling.[/QUOTE]Missouri has the best deals in town for 10/10 girls. Cost of living must be driving up prices for the Seattle girls. Austin is pricey too. SLC, Denver, Nashville and Lexington has a decent pool of girls to play with for a fraction of Seattle costs.

[QUOTE=BugManLet;5784079]So coming from the Reddit board the refrain there is always "yeah SA is awful but it's the only game in town" and I believed that. But your comment got me curious and I created a SB profile and here's my thoughts as a newb so far.

There are a lot of appealing profiles, way more than I expected. I recognize many from SA but lots of unique ones to SB. Even saw a woman I hooked up with in 2020 who dropped off SA but is active on SB.

In two weeks I've received 60 first messages from mostly local girls with my very low effort profile. Many are cute. I'm SA I would get 60 messages from Venezuela, out of state and a handful of local pros or uglies. Anything good I needed to message first.

But I'm suspicious by this as the site wants you to burn credits unlocking conversations. So far I haven't gotten great follow up to my replies other than girls sharing private photos which also burns credits to unlock. My hunch is lots of bots to part you with your credits!

So I'm now being very selective with what conversations I pursue and not bothering with viewing private photos.

I do really like the video verification and short videos! Amazing how many girls have decent photos but look like shit in their videos! This alone saves a lot of wasted time. Man I wish SA had been doing this.

So far haven't met anyone off the site but it seems promising, at least worth a try.[/QUOTE]I've had a bit of luck with Bellingham but haven't spent too much effort on it as I like SBs to be local for convenience / short notice dates.

I had one white SB who admittedly wasn't the hottest but she was like 6/10 and not fat 21 year old. She would drive herself to Seattle and do overnights on the weekend for 300. Perhaps it works with any college town outside the city.

I'm sure it's not the norm / just a thought but may be worth a try.

I definitely wouldn't open with less than 300 and take them out to at least a semi nice resturant on the first date as a "pay it forward" thing if you're interested in getting them in a rotation though. I find a lot of girls, especially the more attractive ones are very poor negotators and will go down to or not be insulted by 300, but if you go less than that you'll get some saltiness.

I usually only go under 300 for fatties or AA or other issues.

Edit: Also don’t bring up cash if the girl doesn’t before you meeet if you have any game because girls will often go lower if they meet and see you aren’t a creep / totally ugly

[QUOTE=FantasyManJ;5784256]Missouri has the best deals in town for 10/10 girls. Cost of living must be driving up prices for the Seattle girls. Austin is pricey too. SLC, Denver, Nashville and Lexington has a decent pool of girls to play with for a fraction of Seattle costs.[/QUOTE]It's all ultimately a numbers game with a layer of the "culture" of the girls in the area. The pandemic has made things worse because the "churn" is worse, I. E. The number of active girls cycle out of the site faster than new girls cycle in. At least this is what I've seen in the Seattle area. As the number of girls in the area goes down the amount of dudes competing with those girls probably stays the same or goes down slower. So the pool of girls that are what you're looking for and will be open to what you're willing to gift will get smaller.

Seattle is a particularly bad city for numbers. There seem to be proportionately fewer girls active combined with high cost of living and a big pool of tech industry people with a lot of money.

You can totally get a quick sense of things based on whatever searches you do. So my standard search on the site is Unviewed + Body (Slim / Athletic / Average / Curvy) + Age (18-35) + Any Ethnicity. Over the past few years that search has generally come up with around 8000 girls in the Seattle area. It would stay pretty consistent based on me subscribing to the site for one month at a time a few times a year. The pool would replenish anywhere from the low to high 8000's.

Currently when I search in Seattle it's just over 6000. The greater Seattle area has a population of around 4000. The active pool is getting smaller. You can also see this by how slowly new girls appear or how many hours old the recently active girls are. So I find the pool of girls that meet my needs is much smaller, which means I meet less often. Girls who want too much money based on my criteria for their looks, too transactional, or too flighty. The occasional "free" girls are fewer and farther between.

When I visit LA there is a night and day difference. The default search comes up as 10,000+ which is the max displayed number. If I look just for White girls it's still 10,000+. If I look just for Latina girls it's still 10,000+. If I look JUST for Mixed girls it's in the mid 6000's. So there are more potential Mixed girls in LA than All potential girls in the Seattle area. The numbers back up my experience. Easier to find girls that meet my needs when I visit down there.

If I try using my searches in some of the cities above I get interesting results. Denver has a lot of relative girls, 10,000+ even though there are less people. The other cities have lower numbers but still pretty high relative to their local population. Which helps explain why there might be more potential girls there. It's hard to beat LA though. Which has a really large pool of girls trying to be actresses or models.

Seattle seems to be in a kind of middle where you don't get the benefits of a huge pool of girls like in LA combined with a lot of demand for that smaller pool.

[QUOTE=MrPumpNDump;5783383]I've met a few people off seeking who would vanilla date / fuck for free. Not as common as this but it does happen.

If you lead a legit "baller" lifestyle it's a lot easier. (e. G. Michelin Star restaurants (don't get me started on Seattle food scene, sucks ass), penthouse / nice apartment in city, vacations at 5 star hotels) vs "upper middle class with some spending money".

I'm not like super high income and not knocking anybody on SA, but 200 k income vs even upper 6 figures is a huge lifestyle difference that SBs can pick up on.

Also if you're 5'2 but in shape and not embarrassing to be seen in public with vs old / fat / dress poorly it can make a big difference too.[/QUOTE]I've had two dates on SA where they fucked me without discussing price or any insinuation that money is needed. One time, I sent her what I thought was fair ($300) and she lost her mind. She wanted at LEAST twice as much. The second didn't mention money even after we were done, so I sent her $300 without asking, she ghosted me. On WYP (What's Your Price), that's a whole different story, I'm almost 100% on that site. Some want no more than date money, some will do it for a few hundred more, I've had more than a few that didn't even want the date money. Note, I own a business, am decent looking and single. YMMV.

[QUOTE=blake37;5784485]It's all ultimately a numbers game with a layer of the "culture" of the girls in the area. The pandemic has made things worse because the "churn" is worse, I. E. The number of active girls cycle out of the site faster than new girls cycle in. At least this is what I've seen in the Seattle area. As the number of girls in the area goes down the amount of dudes competing with those girls probably stays the same or goes down slower. So the pool of girls that are what you're looking for and will be open to what you're willing to gift will get smaller.

Seattle is a particularly bad city for numbers. There seem to be proportionately fewer girls active combined with high cost of living and a big pool of tech industry people with a lot of money.

You can totally get a quick sense of things based on whatever searches you do. So my standard search on the site is Unviewed + Body (Slim / Athletic / Average / Curvy) + Age (18-35) + Any Ethnicity. Over the past few years that search has generally come up with around 8000 girls in the Seattle area. It would stay pretty consistent based on me subscribing to the site for one month at a time a few times a year. The pool would replenish anywhere from the low to high 8000's.

Currently when I search in Seattle it's just over 6000. The greater Seattle area has a population of around 4000. The active pool is getting smaller. You can also see this by how slowly new girls appear or how many hours old the recently active girls are. So I find the pool of girls that meet my needs is much smaller, which means I meet less often. Girls who want too much money based on my criteria for their looks, too transactional, or too flighty. The occasional "free" girls are fewer and farther between.

When I visit LA there is a night and day difference. The default search comes up as 10,000+ which is the max displayed number. If I look just for White girls it's still 10,000+. If I look just for Latina girls it's still 10,000+. If I look JUST for Mixed girls it's in the mid 6000's. So there are more potential Mixed girls in LA than All potential girls in the Seattle area. The numbers back up my experience. Easier to find girls that meet my needs when I visit down there.

If I try using my searches in some of the cities above I get interesting results. Denver has a lot of relative girls, 10,000+ even though there are less people. The other cities have lower numbers but still pretty high relative to their local population. Which helps explain why there might be more potential girls there. It's hard to beat LA though. Which has a really large pool of girls trying to be actresses or models.

Seattle seems to be in a kind of middle where you don't get the benefits of a huge pool of girls like in LA combined with a lot of demand for that smaller pool.[/QUOTE]Population of the city of Los Angeles 3. 976 million. Population of Seattle 737,015.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/ccdb5200-a595-4859-8512-3e2145ec9973[/URL]

Any intel?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/67503bb8-a15e-4bf8-bb2a-c7e6167e2757[/URL]

[QUOTE=PoonHound1969;5791710][URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/67503bb8-a15e-4bf8-bb2a-c7e6167e2757[/URL][/QUOTE]Holy christ. I've been chatting with her. Thanks for the heads up.

Never trust anyone who calls themselves "princess" or wants to be treated like one (in their bio) it never ends well for me.