BackPage Advertiser Reviews

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2503830]Last night I text a certain BP beauty and surprisingly she responded back rather quickly. So we started making plans about hangng out this morning. After a few quick text then nothing. I could tell she wasnt going to be to up front with some pertinent info so I left it at that. But in the back of my head I knew this was going to be a problem. So this morninvI get a text from her asking if I was still going to come hang out. Funny I do t remember setting anything up with her, let alone knew where she is living or how much. Breakfast was going to cost me. So we text more and it turns out she don't even have an incall of her own just some other room you pay to use. I let her know I wasnt cool with that on a first time meeting. And made a suggestion of me getting a room a day or two from now and spending more time with her. Well she said she wasnt cool with that. She really needed the breakfast money now then here comes the WOW text and saying how I really messed her up. Even called me Boo. Simply put to ber that if she was cool with it then we both would benefit double. She said never mind which I guess is nevermind.

I do t tolerate be. S. From girls and I guess when they pick up on the fact I'm not an whipped push over save a hoe then the true attitude comes out. To all gals who read this some of you need to tighten up and learn how to work smart. Would have been nice to meet her but no matter how beautiful she is with attitude and not ready to work, will get you passed up by me everytime.[/QUOTE]Link? Report needs to specify who.

[QUOTE=PhilsMitty;2503470]Always easy setting up. Dreamt of Janet this time. Janet is what she seems. A pretty girl but she's not 5' 5'. Taller, and not 113. Heavier but definitely not heavy. No DFK or LFK. I got done pretty quickly hoping for two but she didn't seem interested. Friendly, fun, accommodating. Glad I tried her but I would dream of Denise again given the chioce.[/QUOTE]Ok this has bothered me for a while. Why does everyone give Alana and DM a pass when she posts deceptive pics and fake heights and weights. I hear a lot of mongers give any other provider a lot of flack for doing the same thing so why should Alana be given a pass. Shouldn't DM be held to the same standards? Deception is Deception. I think a regular of DM should let her know NICELY that the deception is talked about on the board. I've heard to many mongers report this. Just my opinion.

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2503830]Last night I text a certain BP beauty and surprisingly she responded back rather quickly. So we started making plans about hangng out this morning. After a few quick text then nothing. I could tell she wasnt going to be to up front with some pertinent info so I left it at that. But in the back of my head I knew this was going to be a problem. So this morninvI get a text from her asking if I was still going to come hang out. Funny I do t remember setting anything up with her, let alone knew where she is living or how much. Breakfast was going to cost me. So we text more and it turns out she don't even have an incall of her own just some other room you pay to use. I let her know I wasnt cool with that on a first time meeting. And made a suggestion of me getting a room a day or two from now and spending more time with her. Well she said she wasnt cool with that. She really needed the breakfast money now then here comes the WOW text and saying how I really messed her up. Even called me Boo. Simply put to ber that if she was cool with it then we both would benefit double. She said never mind which I guess is nevermind.

I do t tolerate be. S. From girls and I guess when they pick up on the fact I'm not an whipped push over save a hoe then the true attitude comes out. To all gals who read this some of you need to tighten up and learn how to work smart. Would have been nice to meet her but no matter how beautiful she is with attitude and not ready to work, will get you passed up by me everytime.[/QUOTE]Do you have a link or a name to go with this? Or are we to guess?

[QUOTE=MadMax67;2503938]Ok this has bothered me for a while. Why does everyone give Alana and DM a pass when she posts deceptive pics and fake heights and weights. I hear a lot of mongers give any other provider a lot of flack for doing the same thing so why should Alana be given a pass. Shouldn't DM be held to the same standards? Deception is Deception. I think a regular of DM should let her know NICELY that the deception is talked about on the board. I've heard to many mongers report this. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]I think Alana thinks all of us mongers are retards and just doesn't give a shit. I've mentioned it to her and I've spoken to several other mongers who have said something too. I personally don't find the pics to be deceptive, just a "best representation"/ best angle of each girl like other BP girls do, that's just my opinion, but the stats are very deceptive. I asked a few of the girls about it and it seems they all agree because it affects their reviews and the we spend time debating their respective weights (remember when we spent literally a whole weekend trying to decided what Brooke looked like?) which affects their business.

I think Alana's just done it that way so long she doesn't want to change. Can't penalize the girls there for Alana's poor judgement. Byt I also think she won't change them because the girls there are mostly top notch. If people see them and don't complain about the stats, she's not going to change them.

[QUOTE=Sandman660;2503953]Do you have a link or a name to go with this? Or are we to guess?[/QUOTE]Well I'm not going go out her yet since this is our first interaction. She has good reviews and is worth a second chance.

[QUOTE=RapidDave;2503876]Link? Report needs to specify who.[/QUOTE]This was our first interaction so I'm not going to out her publicly. She has good reviews so worth a second chance.

[QUOTE=MadMax67;2503938]Ok this has bothered me for a while. Why does everyone give Alana and DM a pass when she posts deceptive pics and fake heights and weights. I hear a lot of mongers give any other provider a lot of flack for doing the same thing so why should Alana be given a pass. Shouldn't DM be held to the same standards? Deception is Deception. I think a regular of DM should let her know NICELY that the deception is talked about on the board. I've heard to many mongers report this. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]In this time of ridiculous prices that some providers are asking even late into there 50's how can you not appreciate that DM has remained the same in there rates. Though the pictures might not be an exact match not.

One of the 10-15 lady's I have seen with Alana would I kick out of the game. Combined with the quality she has on her staff and the donations she asks for I would say in my opinion you would be hard pressed to match what DM offers. I for one am on DM's fan club.

[QUOTE=MadMax67;2503938]Ok this has bothered me for a while. Why does everyone give Alana and DM a pass when she posts deceptive pics and fake heights and weights. I hear a lot of mongers give any other provider a lot of flack for doing the same thing so why should Alana be given a pass. Shouldn't DM be held to the same standards? Deception is Deception. I think a regular of DM should let her know NICELY that the deception is talked about on the board. I've heard to many mongers report this. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]It's been told to her. The only reason she continues to get away with it is because she's got such talent over there. A Tampa without Brooke or Kiko would a sad place. It's BS on Alana's part, not the girls. The girls that work there don't have control over how their image is used and it doesn't help their business when we complain about it so you know they complain too.

Saw this sexy thick italian woman today after work. She was by dale mabry and I couldn't make it out there so she stopped by my office and we hung out for a hhr for a hundo. BBBJ x 2. The most accurate picture is the one of her in a striped dress. Thick but without the belly big tits for us titty guys (DDD) yes I asked and she verified. The girl is extremly laid back, great to talk to absolutely not a clock watcher and extremely willing to please. She takes instructions well and will let you play with the twins as much as you desire. She does have two piercings which can rub on the little head a little. Some guys don't like that but I didn't mind. Also there is no CIM. Not sure about speaking Greek as I am not into that. Enjoy fellas.

Al.

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/time-of-your-life-60-incall-specials-tonight/15831249[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nile827;2504192]It's been told to her. The only reason she continues to get away with it is because she's got such talent over there. A Tampa without Brooke or Kiko would a sad place. It's BS on Alana's part, not the girls. The girls that work there don't have control over how their image is used and it doesn't help their business when we complain about it so you know they complain too.[/QUOTE]I have seen a number of DM girls, Have written numerous flattering reviews, Never spoken Ill of DM (till now I guess) and all of a sudden, She won't answer my calls, txts or emails.

I'm sure they won't go broke from loosing my business, but it sure is strange.

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2504073]This was our first interaction so I'm not going to out her publicly. She has good reviews so worth a second chance.[/QUOTE]Why post it in the first place?

[QUOTE=Aacountyman;2504643]Why post it in the first place?[/QUOTE]Why bother posting then?

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2504065]Well I'm not going go out her yet since this is our first interaction. She has good reviews and is worth a second chance.[/QUOTE]How are you outting her? If she has good reviews already and ads on BP then she is out there already. We are asking you to share her BP link otherwise your post is useless to us and is no better than a penthouse fantasy forum story.

How can we give her a chance without knowing who she is?

This one would make me drive to Tampa, but this number shows a whole different series of girls attached to it in the past, which means Pimp Daddy has a roster of girls. Which is fine, most girls have pimps we never know about. But I like this one. Anyone ever heard of her?

BTW if you notice the full naked shots are not her since that girl has a tattoo above breast and Sparkle does not.

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/white-girl-wensday-with-sparkle-4075388405/13773331[/URL]

[QUOTE=Geolis;2504672]Why bother posting then?[/QUOTE]Because its a free forum. And its info that could help a monger or a provider that needs to here it. Just because I'm not diming her out just yet doesn't mean I will not. I know you two hardcore mongers would have her head on a stick right?. Besides I'm not calling any of your champ post into question so please do the same.

Any info on the 3 below? You can see my preference so recommendations for anyone are welcome. (Note that one has other ads for Trans and male. WTF?

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/im-bad-to-the-bone-special-massages-8132950957/14829128[/URL]

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/back-intown-beautiful-bbw-ready-to-please-specialsinoutcalls/15837388[/URL]

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/2girl-100-2girl100pc-sexxiecreamy-kittenkillr-curvesjuicy-asss/14305921[/URL]

Thanks.

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2504869]Because its a free forum. And its info that could help a monger or a provider that needs to here it. Just because I'm not diming her out just yet doesn't mean I will not. I know you two hardcore mongers would have her head on a stick right?. Besides I'm not calling any of your champ post into question so please do the same.[/QUOTE]Jon, it's a free forum, yes, but the point of this specific forum is to exchange important helpful information between mongers as to whether a girl is legit, a rip off, how she performs, looks, services, rates, etc. That help a monger make an informed decision whether or not to see a gal.

You says its info that could help a monger or a provider out. How? You posted a great review, but we don't know who you're talking about, so it's not helping her and it's not helping us.

[QUOTE=DrPotato;2504938]You says its info that could help a monger or a provider out. How? You posted a great review, but we don't know who you're talking about, so it's not helping her and it's not helping us.[/QUOTE]Exactly. That's like me posting a report about a provider who robs mongers at gunpoint, but then not saying who it is? How is that helpful?

[QUOTE=DrPotato;2504938]Jon, it's a free forum, yes, but the point of this specific forum is to exchange important helpful information between mongers as to whether a girl is legit, a rip off, how she performs, looks, services, rates, etc. That help a monger make an informed decision whether or not to see a gal.

You says its info that could help a monger or a provider out. How? You posted a great review, but we don't know who you're talking about, so it's not helping her and it's not helping us.[/QUOTE]So lets use it to critique other mongers posts. Right?

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2505003]So lets use it to critique other mongers posts. Right?[/QUOTE]As one on the receiving end of many personal attacks, I don't see it that way.

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2505003]So lets use it to critique other mongers posts. Right?[/QUOTE]You posted a review and adamantly refused to say who the girl is for some weird reason that I can't grasp. She's not some UTR girl, you made no mention of her telling you not to post a review, which I could respect, etc. You said she has ads on BP and has reviews, so we just want to know, who she is.

So all that's left is a story how you got laid and it was good, which I don't think is relevant info to us. I got laid the other night, but I didn't write about it here because this isn't the place for that.

When I see a provider, I share the info with everyone here so they know whether or not to see her, and we're just asking the same of you.

[QUOTE=FunFellagain;2502848]Howdy Guys,

Feeling bad that I had to cancel on Devon tonight due to business issue so thought I would do a quick info share.

I know some of you have been looking for updated contact info for her. She said it was cool to share. You can text her at 813-527-8703. Keep texts simple. And she is looking for company tonight.

I saw her a few days ago. Donation as posted on page and she is a very cute spinner as some have reported. She stays near Ybor and has a very small incall not far away. Seemed safe enough and worked fine.

Very cute, nice performance, youthful alabaster skin. Typical half and half, although did not ask about CIM or G. I should have.

Give her a ring and treat her nice!

FUN.

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/caution-i-will-be-your-new-addiction-available-now-100-special/15123456[/URL][/QUOTE]I have seen her multiple times and always enjoyed the experience. She is quiet and submissive and orally skilled. Nice shaved and clean V too. The number I had before was no longer working so thanks for the updated digits. I tried to call the number you gave and the message was a male voice speaking Spanish. I'll keep trying.

[QUOTE=PokeHerPlayer;2504507]I have seen a number of DM girls, Have written numerous flattering reviews, Never spoken Ill of DM (till now I guess) and all of a sudden, She won't answer my calls, txts or emails.

I'm sure they won't go broke from loosing my business, but it sure is strange.[/QUOTE]This happened to me a year or so ago. Alana changed phones, did not carry contacts to the new phone, or at least not all of them. Took me a week of texts, calls and e-mails before she finally straightened it out. I know they stay busy, but can't believe they have so much biz they can just write off old timers. Keep trying, leave a message explaining why she should know you and maybe she'll get back. J2.

[QUOTE=Titan57;2504132]In this time of ridiculous prices that some providers are asking even late into there 50's how can you not appreciate that DM has remained the same in there rates. Though the pictures might not be an exact match not.
[/QUOTE]From what I know, their prices for the hour are not any cheaper than pretty much any girl I've seen post on BP, and many even charge less (I'm not talking about 50 year olds). 1. 5 to 2. Seems to be the norm. What you do get, from all I've read about DM, is reliable great service at a decent rate, and that's a real value to know going in.

But that doesn't excuse them from misrepresenting what you get, and that's what everyone here is talking about, and is the main reason I've never used them.

I'm very specific about my mongering, depending on my taste and mood at any given moment. Could be I want a skinny white brunette one day, thick blonde another, tall, short, etc. And with them, I have no idea. The BP ads have pictures of girls that haven't worked their in forever and the website only posts one photo of each girl, so for me, that's another reason, can't see multiple pictures of a girl, or their face, which I understand why someone doesn't post that, I'm just saying.

Saw this girl once and while she is cool and laid back, she did give me sob story after sob story and I felt bad so I met her at a hotel off Dale Mabry. Only charged $70 for HH since she was hurting for money. Did a decent BBBJ, and I made the mistake of going bareback with her and brought home something extra to my girlfriend. Been to the doctor to get cleaned up, but she is very desperate for money and not sure it's worth the risk. Pictures do show a big booty which I love, but hate the gut that is hidden until you see her out of her clothes. Also the booty isn't as good looking as in the pics. She needs some major toning up. Be safe out there with this one.

[QUOTE=AlexAmor46;2504260]Saw this sexy thick italian woman today after work. She was by dale mabry and I couldn't make it out there so she stopped by my office and we hung out for a hhr for a hundo. BBBJ x 2. The most accurate picture is the one of her in a striped dress. Thick but without the belly big tits for us titty guys (DDD) yes I asked and she verified. The girl is extremly laid back, great to talk to absolutely not a clock watcher and extremely willing to please. She takes instructions well and will let you play with the twins as much as you desire. She does have two piercings which can rub on the little head a little. Some guys don't like that but I didn't mind. Also there is no CIM. Not sure about speaking Greek as I am not into that. Enjoy fellas.

Al.

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/time-of-your-life-60-incall-specials-tonight/15831249[/URL][/QUOTE]

Saw Grace 3 days ago and had a great time with her. She did a great BBBJ, and the reverse cowgirl eventually did me in. Very very sweet and smiled a lot. Did have bandages on her legs from an apparent dog scratch, but didn't prevent her from following thru with the task. Made some great moans, and made the experience great. I will be seeing her soon. Said she wanted to get out of the business so not sure how much longer she will be free.

[QUOTE=KhalidMangafi;2503044]Just had to get some more. Was well worth it. She loves the refreshments, so for those fellow mongers who've brought her some: "Thanks!" We treat them right and they treat us right. Right?

Those with eyes to see will see; others probably not. Enjoy!

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/sexy-tempting-and-ready/15214832[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JayTwogo;2505279]This happened to me a year or so ago. Alana changed phones, did not carry contacts to the new phone, or at least not all of them. Took me a week of texts, calls and e-mails before she finally straightened it out. I know they stay busy, but can't believe they have so much biz they can just write off old timers. Keep trying, leave a message explaining why she should know you and maybe she'll get back. J2.[/QUOTE]The number for DM did not change and I have done all I will do to contact DM. I have never spoken ill of them, in fact I have defended them and recommended them to a number of people Here and other boards. I will not suffer from their loss of my business.

I guess if they can't answer my calls txts and emails they really don't give a S. T about me or my business. Keep that in mind when you praise them in the future.

[QUOTE=Nile827;2504192]It's been told to her. The only reason she continues to get away with it is because she's got such talent over there. A Tampa without Brooke or Kiko would a sad place. It's BS on Alana's part, not the girls. The girls that work there don't have control over how their image is used and it doesn't help their business when we complain about it so you know they complain too.[/QUOTE]Thanks for all the input guys. I completely understand that DM provides an excellent service for the most part. I like music almost as much as sex but when I go to a concert and the band doesn't sound like their CD (I almost wrote album) its disappointing to me. It's just a preference.

Monger on and stay safe. MM. BTW I'm really glad I found this board.

[URL]Tampa.backpage.com/ FemaleEscorts / sexy-skye-new-here-mature-tall-skilled-727-237-3552-incalloutcall-ask-about-my-specials /15804805[/URL]

Saw sky yesterday at a nice hotel incall. 60 bucks got me a BBBJ which did just the trick for the price. She's not much to look at underneath the dress, but knows how to give a mean BJ.

It's not like Alana does anything for them, a few, too many, post is mostly it. Not like she does back ground checks or has armed guards. Any one can put an ad on bakpage, and they could charge the same amount and make twice the Cash. You would think with the advent of the Internet Pimps would be a thing of the past.

QUOTE=PokeHerPlayer;2504507]I have seen a number of DM girls, Have written numerous flattering reviews, Never spoken Ill of DM (till now I guess) and all of a sudden, She won't answer my calls, txts or emails.

I'm sure they won't go.

[QUOTE=TheCornKing;2505774]It's not like Alana does anything for them, a few, too many, post is mostly it. Not like she does back ground checks or has armed guards. Any one can put an ad on bakpage, and they could charge the same amount and make twice the Cash. You would think with the advent of the Internet Pimps would be a thing of the past.[/QUOTE]I see exactly why they stay. DM has a more or less deserved reputation for quality. Becoming a DM girl gives them instant access to that. Think about becoming a lawyer. It's often easier to join an established firm than strike out on your own. Very much the same thing is going on here. It gives them access to a pretty damn good incall location that is not their own house / hotel / apartment, so they can keep it separate from their own lives and more like a job. In theory there is probably some security, too. Alana handles the calls and scheduling for them: All they have to do is show up and perform.

Hey man, if our posts lack what yours did, feel free to call me or anyone out, anytime. How about, instead of taking it personally and firing back with no substance, put the friken info out there. Otherwise, it's worthless.

Have a great day!

[QUOTE=JustAJon;2504869]Because its a free forum. And its info that could help a monger or a provider that needs to here it. Just because I'm not diming her out just yet doesn't mean I will not. I know you two hardcore mongers would have her head on a stick right?. Besides I'm not calling any of your champ post into question so please do the same.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PokeHerPlayer;2505538]The number for DM did not change and I have done all I will do to contact DM. I have never spoken ill of them, in fact I have defended them and recommended them to a number of people Here and other boards. I will not suffer from their loss of my business.

I guess if they can't answer my calls txts and emails they really don't give a S. T about me or my business. Keep that in mind when you praise them in the future.[/QUOTE]Number didn't change when she lost my info, just the phone. When it comes to efficiency they ain't Amazon.

But if you're convinced she doesn't want to talk to you, maybe you're right.

Anyway, anyone had a taste of the headlights on Marsha? Someone please tell me she's worth the trip!?

[QUOTE=JayTwogo;2506380]Number didn't change when she lost my info, just the phone. When it comes to efficiency they ain't Amazon.

But if you're convinced she doesn't want to talk to you, maybe you're right.

Anyway, anyone had a taste of the headlights on Marsha? Someone please tell me she's worth the trip!?[/QUOTE]That picture makes her tits look huge, but they're actually closer to Bee cups. She's got quite the gut too and I personally didn't enjoy the visit. Everything was just kind of ok. Not the worst I've had at DM, but IMO not worth the $.

[QUOTE=TampaMonger;2505807]I see exactly why they stay. DM has a more or less deserved reputation for quality. Becoming a DM girl gives them instant access to that. Think about becoming a lawyer. It's often easier to join an established firm than strike out on your own. Very much the same thing is going on here. It gives them access to a pretty damn good incall location that is not their own house / hotel / apartment, so they can keep it separate from their own lives and more like a job. In theory there is probably some security, too. Alana handles the calls and scheduling for them: All they have to do is show up and perform.[/QUOTE]DM girls also never get busted for providing. Thats a big benefit to them. And has no one else seen the strapped black dude that's around there? They do have protection.

I was surprised to find out that DM didn't have a half hour rate. Not sure if the house gets half of the fee but I guess it's a different route. A NYC house started two different options to their lists. You can see 2 girls for a half for 225 or for $225 see 1 girl for 30 and then after that a different girl for 30 minutes. I know the house reduced it's fees when the girls would do doubles together. And of course certain gals would want to double up with their friends.

[QUOTE=MPandos;2507432]That picture makes her tits look huge, but they're actually closer to Bee cups. She's got quite the gut too and I personally didn't enjoy the visit. Everything was just kind of ok. Not the worst I've had at DM, but IMO not worth the $.[/QUOTE]Guess they do try to put their best "assets" forward, but we've been hashing that over for a week now. Too bad, Marsha's don't play as well as the photo makes them look. And I can't abide a belly roll. Do a crunch or two, it won't kill you. Guess I'll stay with the current batting order.

Since my usuals were preoccupied and I didn't feel like waiting for them to be free, I decided to be adventurous. While she seemed like a good person to chill and chat with, her service was not worth the coin paid. She's more of a. 4 to. 6 in my book, based on previous service I've had. Granted, I've had some. 6's that absolutely blew my socks off with outstanding BBBJ.

Cons:

- Her place smelled a little raunchy, kind of like piss or mildew.

- She's big and the pictures provided don't really show off her body, so you go into this one blind.

- Went straight into CBJ. I prefer BBBJ. It's so hard to find a willing girl, but this alone quickly makes me a regular out of me.

- Her CBJ started out hard and fast and with a tongue ring, so I told her I prefer soft and slow. She slowed down, but then sped right back up after a few.

- During CBJ, she sometimes stroked with her hands.

- She stopped giving CBJ without my asking or gesture. Gives the impression she's rushing. But what can I say? "Hey did I tell you to stop?? Get back to it!

- Moved into MISH, loose kitty. I finished but it was a dud. Not enough friction to really get me worked up.

Pros:

- Good attitude, seems friendly.

- Nice big boobs.

- Doesn't wear any obnoxious scented lotion many escorts tend to wear.

- She listened to how I wanted things.

Overall Rating: 4/10 - Not worth it, no repeat.

Links:

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/exotic-qurls-at-your-service-and-ready-2-your-mind/15479994[/URL]

[URL]http://www.escortphonesearch.com/727-279-5311/[/URL]

There's an earlier report about her but a quick search didn't locate it. Legit girl and pretty down to earth. Pics are her but probably a little old. Not really my cup of tea but a "pro" and gets things done. Dunno why she posts in the BR section because that's not even on the menu. Good BBBJ skills and a very diligent girl.

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/BodyRubs/727619-3852-100-shains-very-erotic-mutual-body-rub/13305885[/URL]

[QUOTE=Lakitu;2508343]
Cons:

- Her place smelled a little raunchy, kind of like piss or mildew.

- She's big and the pictures provided don't really show off her body, so you go into this one blind.

Overall Rating: 4/10 - Not worth it, no repeat.

Links:

[URL]http://tampa.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/exotic-qurls-at-your-service-and-ready-2-your-mind/15479994[/URL]

[URL]http://www.escortphonesearch.com/727-279-5311/[/URL][/QUOTE]You got to zoom in on those pictures sometimes. If you zoom in on hers you can see her flabby stomach sitting on her thigh like a dead flounder.