Court Finds 'Happy Endings' To Be Legitimate Massage Procedure

[QUOTE=LustyB;4168625]Is it really "trafficking"? Or is it a buzzword that lefty do gooders use to stop prostitution using any means and to play on the public's emotions?

I've been using AMPs for years and never once thought I was using "trafficked" slave girls.[/QUOTE]I honestly believe the woman are prostitutes in their home country and when they find out how much money they can make they decide to do the massage parlor scene. Of course when the police ask the girls they will play innocent but I do believe a vast majority of them are willing. The simple soulution is to legalize it.

Just heard this on Sport Hub and found the Kraft affidavits online. So, Kraft went in on the 19th got a handy. THEN he got pulled over in a Bentley on his way out of the massage parlor and got positively ID'd via his drivers license. THEN he went back for 2nd handy / possible BJ the next god damn day. Wow, noob move. If you get pulled over leaving a parlor for even a traffic stop, that should raise a red flag.

[blue]Why are you posting the phone number of a brother monger who had the bad luck to get caught up in a sweep?

Do you think that couldn't happen to you? If it did would you be ok with people posting your arrest documents including your phone number and address on the forum?

Why is he different because he's rich?

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=LustyB;4168625]Is it really "trafficking"? Or is it a buzzword that lefty do gooders use to stop prostitution using any means and to play on the public's emotions?

I've been using AMPs for years and never once thought I was using "trafficked" slave girls.[/QUOTE]It's really bullshit. It's a myth that is repeated, accepted, and never challenged. I think the myth was born way back in the 1800's and never went away. Google 'yellow fever'. It was even mentioned in President Grant's state of the union back in the day. It's kept alive and continues to grow through the work of sex hating feminist academics and sociologists, who have considerable influence on public policy and media opinion.

I was really concerned about visiting AMPs for a long time. Little by little, through reading, educating myself, and direct experiences, I realized that the situation of women who work in MPs and in prostitution in general has been sensationalized to the point of ridiculousness. What made me conclude once and for all that it is bullshit was a few years ago when I became friends with a Chinese massage girl. I went to dinners, bars, museums, shopping, etc with her and her friends who also work as prostitutes in massage parlors. I learned about her life and how she came into her occupation. I went 'behind the scenes' at MPs where she worked and helped drive her to prospective parlors where she was interested in working. I've hung out in the back rooms of MPs with girls while they wait for customers, etc, stayed after hours, etc, etc.

Now, it's completely true that there is immigration fraud going on, that there is sex exchanged for money (we all knew that), and that it's par for the course for girls to sleep in the MPs while they work there (they absolutely aren't forced to stay, however). These three ingredients are so ripe for sensationalism that we get the human trafficking outrage that we are now all familiar with.

Lay low for a while in regards to AMPs only? Or, disregard ever being filmed as highly improbable?

Is this a flaky FL law thing that would allow video cameras to be placed during a fake fire alarm?? Or can that happen anywhere? The point about leaving these alleged victims in "danger" for another five days (or whatever) to get video evidence does seem like an important consideration for a judge issuing a warrant.

Personally, I am thinking for a couple of months I will just frequent shops that DON'T have obvious high turnover. And see how LEO in the MA area proceed with this new "public awareness" and "pressure".

Your thoughts?

[QUOTE=Zimmm33;4168929]Lay low for a while in regards to AMPs only? Or, disregard ever being filmed as highly improbable?

Is this a flaky FL law thing that would allow video cameras to be placed during a fake fire alarm?? Or can that happen anywhere? The point about leaving these alleged victims in "danger" for another five days (or whatever) to get video evidence does seem like an important consideration for a judge issuing a warrant.

Personally, I am thinking for a couple of months I will just frequent shops that DON'T have obvious high turnover. And see how LEO in the MA area proceed with this new "public awareness" and "pressure".

Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]I am thinking the cameras were placed because they knew they could get Kraft and sensationalize things. Just have to make sure you don't go to a place that may have well known folks going. ;)

I will probably avoid the AMPs for now. Spend time at some good strip clubs. Eventually will park far away and take a roundabout way back to my car when I return. Plus is will get some exercise in.

[QUOTE=IAmAzn;4168488]It is time for change. Every other country allows this type of activity legally. Why can't the best country in the world allow it. It is a complete of tax payer dollars to go after providers and men for this activity. Instead wasting money, it should be taxed as a revenue stream for states and our government. Not only that, it will reduce trafficking. I don't understand why our society is so negative towards this activity. We need more common sense in our government.

With all that being said, I will mostly not visit any AMP in the near future. Just too much attention which is unfortunate. Too all my friends, stay safe and get a good lawyer.[/QUOTE]Wishful thinking on our part that it is time for a change. Some other countries allow it to varying degrees, not all. Why is because there is an unlikely alliance between the right, (moral Puritans) and left (any and all sexual activity between 2 consenting adults involving money is absolute sexual slavery, human trafficking, rape, etc.) Listen to all the reactions to the Kraft incident, (horrible, disgusting, etc.) on the media. Even though it should be time for a change, we're not there yet, and won't be any time soon.

[QUOTE=Aluver;4168806]Just heard this on Sport Hub and found the Kraft affidavits online. So, Kraft went in on the 19th got a handy. THEN he got pulled over in a Bentley on his way out of the massage parlor and got positively ID'd via his drivers license. THEN he went back for 2nd handy / possible BJ the next god damn day. Wow, noob move. If you get pulled over leaving a parlor for even a traffic stop, that should raise a red flag.[/QUOTE]So he was pulled over as a passenger for legit reason for the traffic stop. The officer ask for his I'd as a passenger and they went on there way. And next day he goes back?! Crazy.

[QUOTE=IAmAzn;4168488]It is time for change. Every other country allows this type of activity legally. Why can't the best country in the world allow it. It is a complete of tax payer dollars to go after providers and men for this activity. Instead wasting money, it should be taxed as a revenue stream for states and our government. Not only that, it will reduce trafficking. I don't understand why our society is so negative towards this activity. We need more common sense in our government.

With all that being said, I will mostly not visit any AMP in the near future. Just too much attention which is unfortunate. Too all my friends, stay safe and get a good lawyer.[/QUOTE]Couldn't agree more. I started a post on this very topic a few weeks ago on the SW thread. Every other developed country except America has legalized prostitution. Why? Because it makes sense on every level. It empowers, not demeans women, it reduces, not increases the market for trafficking and underage sex, it reduces, not increases drug addiction among providers, it is safer for men and women in crime and the spread of STD's, it generates huge amounts of tax revenue, it frees law enforcement to focus on real crime and it keeps government out of a victimless transaction between consenting adults. Any if us who have traveled abroad know all of this.

There is nothing that Robert Kraft should be embarrassed about. He's a decent man, that has given millions to worthy charities, and he's created the best franchise in the NFL. Way better than Jim Irsay, driving heavily under the influence, and a dead mistress some where along the way, The only embarrassment here is that the USA remains the only developed country still living in the dark ages when it comes to the most natural act between two consenting adults.

[QUOTE=LustyB;4168625]Is it really "trafficking"? Or is it a buzzword that lefty do gooders use to stop prostitution using any means and to play on the public's emotions?

I've been using AMPs for years and never once thought I was using "trafficked" slave girls.[/QUOTE]It's definitely misused as a tool or buzzword to justify prostitution arrests. If their goal was to save these women from trafficking, then they should have taken some kind of action as early as possible, not install cameras and wait what, six weeks, allowing them to allegedly be trafficked before taking action. This was done to prosecute men, not save women.

As far as local AMPs go, ask them where they live and you'll hear that they're mostly locals. Ask them if they're doing this by choice and I'll bet they say yes.

[QUOTE=Spaz2580;4166247]That woman got a lot of money from the businessman but got greedy and asked for more. 280 k total. She should've stopped after the initial shakedown. The businessman eventually went to the police.

Kraft went to a place in Florida that had a table shower. Those places are usually more FS. Maybe he got that instead of just a handshake. Wrong place wrong time. His image is gone / tainted now.[/QUOTE]Some news outlets have said oral and manual in reference to Kraft over the past couple of days, but today the NYT reported that the video appears to show him getting two hjs. Also, that one visit was just 13 minutes. Sure doesn't sound like he was in for FS.

[QUOTE=GlennQ;4169205]Couldn't agree more. I started a post on this very topic a few weeks ago on the SW thread. Every other developed country except America has legalized prostitution. Why? Because it makes sense on every level. It empowers, not demeans women, it reduces, not increases the market for trafficking and underage sex, it reduces, not increases drug addiction among providers, it is safer for men and women in crime and the spread of STD's, it generates huge amounts of tax revenue, it frees law enforcement to focus on real crime and it keeps government out of a victimless transaction between consenting adults. Any if us who have traveled abroad know all of this.
[/QUOTE]The forces against this have produced a trump card (no pun) which is the trafficking argument. It will immediately shut down any conversation about changing things.

I see that the Jupiter Police are already walking the "trafficking" thing back. I think they may have overshot this one. If you've used AMPs, you know damn well the majority of these girls are from NYC and doing it for casino money, and the most they will offer is a HJ. Maybe somebody with the resources to fight this like Kraft will expose the trafficking myth and maybe they won't be so quick to label these girls as "victims".

[QUOTE=punteruk;4170060]The forces against this have produced a trump card (no pun) which is the trafficking argument. It will immediately shut down any conversation about changing things.

I see that the Jupiter Police are already walking the "trafficking" thing back. I think they may have overshot this one. If you've used AMPs, you know damn well the majority of these girls are from NYC and doing it for casino money, and the most they will offer is a HJ. Maybe somebody with the resources to fight this like Kraft will expose the trafficking myth and maybe they won't be so quick to label these girls as "victims".[/QUOTE]I hear you. We all know that using trafficking as the reason to crack down on prostitution is the same as claiming marijuana is a gateway drug. It's just another deceptive argument perpetrated by all sides of the American political spectrum who can't face the real facts or come up with a legitimate defense of laws that do far more harm than good.

Instead of listening to the hysterical and uninformed, maybe we should listen to the experts who've actually conducted some real research and formulation of thoughtful policy:

[URL]https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/decreasing-human-trafficking-through-sex-work-decriminalization/2017-01[/URL]

(you know, like the AMA, Amnesty International, the WHO, the UN, and the rest of these rogue organizations dedicated to the subjugation and exploitation of women).

I know it's an uphill battle but at least the Robert Kraft incident has many of us, including some in the MSM, discussing the real elephant, and the real solution in the room:

[URL]https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-smerconish-questions-waste-of-police-resources-in-bob-kraft-arrest/[/URL]

Not sure how else to amplify the facts and message so any thoughts are welcome. P.S. , be safe and happy hunting.

[QUOTE=GlennQ;4170208]I hear you. We all know that using trafficking as the reason to crack down on prostitution is the same as claiming marijuana is a gateway drug. It's just another deceptive argument perpetrated by all sides of the American political spectrum who can't face the real facts or come up with a legitimate defense of laws that do far more harm than good.

Instead of listening to the hysterical and uninformed, maybe we should listen to the experts who've actually conducted some real research and formulation of thoughtful policy:

[URL]https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/decreasing-human-trafficking-through-sex-work-decriminalization/2017-01[/URL]

(you know, like the AMA, Amnesty International, the WHO, the UN, and the rest of these rogue organizations dedicated to the subjugation and exploitation of women).

I know it's an uphill battle but at least the Robert Kraft incident has many of us, including some in the MSM, discussing the real elephant, and the real solution in the room:

[URL]https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-smerconish-questions-waste-of-police-resources-in-bob-kraft-arrest/[/URL]

Not sure how else to amplify the facts and message so any thoughts are welcome. P.S. , be safe and happy hunting.[/QUOTE]The only reason law enforcement is all over us mongers is because they can get away with. By going to these places we are not guilty of trafficking these women but we are guilty of participating in trafficking by supporting them with $$.

What bugs me the most about the recent events:

1. Trafficking actually happens in this industry, but I don't think anyone has ever proven that it's a widespread problem. So when they find actual trafficking going on, they need to shut that shit down quick and make an example of the people responsible. Calling every AMP sting a trafficking operation is ridiculous and serves no purpose. It's PR and legal jumbo that I feel is ultimately harmful.

2. If they actually thought human trafficking was going on at this spa in Florida, why the hell were the cops sitting on their asses for a week while innocent women were being raped? Because if it actually was trafficking, that's what would be happening. The police knew this was just an AMP takedown. Someone got their panties in a twist and demanded action, or someone wanted a raise, or PR, or someone is running for office, or someone wanted to embarrass one of the clients in particular.

Anyway that's my feeling on that.

Glenn Q, your "Ethics" article was on point. An analogy is the trafficking of Maijuana, it is now legal in alot of states, taxed and regulated, no more "war on drugs". The majority of women I have encountered in the "Massage Trade" are in their 40's, are here legally and love the money they get. Treat the problem don't put them out of business.