Ripoff Reports

[QUOTE=Jinurso;5581659]Paying after is something I've never heard or seen in my life until I saw people mention it here. I'm not saying it's not real, but maybe is varies based on how you met the girl.

I can 100% tell you that mid-range and higher girls ($300+ hr) have a very specific routine and will have no problem telling you to leave if you don't follow it. You come in, go to the bathroom, shower, leave the money in the bathroom, she goes in, cleans up and grabs the money. Or you leave it to the nightstand and go to the bathroom. Something like that.

Lower end girls? Who knows. I guess it's possible but not worth the risk of things escalating. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been ripped off.

Spas sometimes function that way. At CLM I've paid the fee upfront but in the flow of things we'll start doing stuff and we don't settle up until after. That's the closest I've ever come to "pay after".[/QUOTE]Agree. The most common scenario with me is I leave the envelope someplace conspicuous and then go wash up. A handful of times the girl asked me for the money right away, but that's less common and usually only happens with the lower priced ones. The mid to upper range ones usually seems to be the first scenario. I don't like talking about money, so I don't often revisit the ones who ask for it up front.

Some guys are just scumbags who like to pull a dine and dash, so that's how they wind up not trusting us. I'd be paranoid too.

I've never been ripped off, but I really do my homework.

Just to be clear;.

I've always paid the full price for an escort's services when the session is over. Never have I "Dined and' Dashed" on an escort. That would be a terrible thing to do. I pay afterwards to prevent from getting ripped off. It's always good to have some sort of control and leverage when dealing with these girls. High class or otherwise.

[QUOTE=Jinurso;5581659]Paying after is something I've never heard or seen in my life until I saw people mention it here. I'm not saying it's not real, but maybe is varies based on how you met the girl.

I can 100% tell you that mid-range and higher girls ($300+ hr) have a very specific routine and will have no problem telling you to leave if you don't follow it. You come in, go to the bathroom, shower, leave the money in the bathroom, she goes in, cleans up and grabs the money. Or you leave it to the nightstand and go to the bathroom. Something like that.

Lower end girls? Who knows. I guess it's possible but not worth the risk of things escalating. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been ripped off.

Spas sometimes function that way. At CLM I've paid the fee upfront but in the flow of things we'll start doing stuff and we don't settle up until after. That's the closest I've ever come to "pay after".[/QUOTE]I guess that's part of the difference between agency and independent.

Agency girls have been nice in the past to me where we have chemistry in both talk and play, and have "gone right to it" on subsequent visits, and I pay before I leave; once, both the girl and I forgot I paid and it wasnt until I was heading to my car I remembered and went back to pay (I don't want to ruin those "relationships".

Only once has this happened with an independent because I was a regular and again had good chemistry, we got going right away and I paid before leaving.

[QUOTE=DrPepper2976;5581921]I guess that's part of the difference between agency and independent.

Agency girls have been nice in the past to me where we have chemistry in both talk and play, and have "gone right to it" on subsequent visits, and I pay before I leave; once, both the girl and I forgot I paid and it wasnt until I was heading to my car I remembered and went back to pay (I don't want to ruin those "relationships".

Only once has this happened with an independent because I was a regular and again had good chemistry, we got going right away and I paid before leaving.[/QUOTE]Ill bet that a decent percentage of guys have forgot to pay upfront with girls they have seen before and have good comfort levels with and I would put myself in that group but that is due to trust, comfort and forgetfulness with both parties, The people advocating paying at the end here have no trust in the providers without the leverage of payment after services are rendered. Just about exact opposites.

Besides posting about girls that are a rip off, it would stand to reason to post ways to prevent getting ripped off. Not paying upfront and you not paying for a room until she arrives at the agreed upon location.

I'll bet if all of us paid after instead of upfront 90% of the rip offs wouldn't happen. IMO.

You don't have trust at the very first meeting. Through repeat visits trust is built up. How many visits it takes before trust is established depends on her and your comfort level. Even with trust you still have to keep your guard up. I still and always will pay afterwards.

I will chime in with my experience as well. I will go with the consensus here that any girls you see through EB or STG (and obviously higher end as well though my experience there is limited) you will have a worse time or more than likely will be asked to leave if you refuse to pay until after the session. I'm sure some girls might put up with that but I would imagine it would be the minority of girls so you would spend way too much time setting up a date then going to see some girl then leaving immediately since you didn't want to pay until after. So IMO that is a pretty awful strategy to avoid ripoffs. Once you have seen enough ads over the years you can do a pretty good job of filtering legit from not and avoid all out ripoffs for the most part. I want to add that lackluster services are much more common than outright stealing and is a much bigger problem when seeing new girls, but that's another discussion.

On the other hand when it comes to SWers, in that scenario it is pretty much essential you pay after or you are inviting a ripoff of some sort, but again that is another story than this discussion. One last bit of info to add about ripoffs from my experience, I have had hundreds of dates over the past 5 years or so and I believe I have been actually stolen from 3 times. Two of those happened where the girl asked me to meet her outside (both at lower end motels) then we went up to the room and some pimp comes in almost immediately with some story that sees you out with no service or money. So anytime a girl asks to meet outside I am a little weary because of this, I'm guessing the plan is / was to have the pimp (s) get a look at you before they decide to rob you. That being said I have had dates where they met outside and it was fine, but its very rare for a girl to do this and if they do, be extra cautious is my advice.

[QUOTE=Moejoo;5582315]Ill bet that a decent percentage of guys have forgot to pay upfront with girls they have seen before and have good comfort levels with and I would put myself in that group but that is due to trust, comfort and forgetfulness with both parties, The people advocating paying at the end here have no trust in the providers without the leverage of payment after services are rendered. Just about exact opposites.[/QUOTE]That's definitely happened to me with some regulars. We eventually stopped even discussing money or time and just got into it. Most of the time I remembered to leave the money there. Sometimes she didn't see where I put it and asked me later, but sometimes I would forget, but always made good so there was never a problem.

But again, that's not the same as "never pay anybody upfront ever". I can't imagine any of the hundreds of girls I've seen would have been ok with that. Certainly none of the dozens of girls I've reviewed on this site.

I was curious to see the review history of the people advocating for this "don't pay upfront" philosophy, but strangely I couldn't find any reviews. Like. . .any reviews. Makes me wonder if it's more of a philosophical advocacy than an actual practice.

Maybe I'm not understanding the advantages of paying upfront. Can you pay upfront guys tell me?

1) You actually get to have sex with the provider!

2) You don't get kicked out of the room.

3) You don't get blacklisted as a time waster.

4) Not get mocked for horrible advice.

[QUOTE=RonM;5582991]Maybe I'm not understanding the advantages of paying upfront. Can you pay upfront guys tell me?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RonM;5582991]Maybe I'm not understanding the advantages of paying upfront. Can you pay upfront guys tell me?[/QUOTE]In my years of the hobby, if a girl asks for it up front I will give it. Why? Because very rarely do I see a gal that hasn't been reviewed. Also, out of my years I can count on one hand getting screwed over. Straight up cash and dash with comical car chase. Two decided to change the agreed terms, one running out to a car. Most women are afraid of us mongers cashing and dashing, which honestly I believe happens way more than you think.

I get that you want to protect yourself from getting ripped off but you make the woman uneasy by doing that. Obviously, if you see a woman multiple times it usually isn't an issue. I would probably change my tune if it happened repeatedly but for me it's 99% success rate.

[QUOTE=RonM;5582991]Maybe I'm not understanding the advantages of paying upfront. Can you pay upfront guys tell me?[/QUOTE]It puts their mind at ease and takes money off the table as an issue immediately. They're not thinking about whether I am going to stiff them or if I brought enough. It gets it out of the way and we move on.

It's the default routine and what they all expect and what 99% of men who visit them are comfortable complying with.

I've never heard or seen a scenario where a known girl has deviated from that just because a guy was already there and tried to coerce her but I've heard plenty of stories where girls have refused service to a guy who refused to pay upfront and subsequently blacklisted him.

There may be girls around who are newer, lower end, or have varying states of desperation who are more flexible but it is not worth alienating a lot of well reviewed women to try that on. You do that to the wrong girl and you'll end up locked out of the legit market entirely and stuck with $60 qv women forever.

Most are valid points.

You lose your advantage by paying upfront. You guys have been lucky so far. I was a pay upfront proponent at the ground level in this game. But when I got ripped off paying upfront that experience changed my perspective in the game. I'm going to still pay after the session is over. If I miss out on a great time with a girl that wants payment upfront, then so be it. There are plenty enough girls in this game to see. Your money is the only leverage and advantage you have when dealing with these girls. Just be careful paying upfront.

I can't remember if I wrote this in my review of Julia / Jules in Rogers Park but I gave her the money right when I walked in. I knew she was legit (reviews were good, she's older, there's video of her on EB). She told me when I handed the money that she likes seeing 30+ guys so much more because they understand what's happening. She stopped seeing guys in their 20's because they're haggling over money, showing up drunk, and just generally acting like idiots. But she led with the money thing. But I haven't messed with street walkers. I can see why that would require a different approach.

[QUOTE=RonM;5583197]Most are valid points.

You lose your advantage by paying upfront. You guys have been lucky so far. I was a pay upfront proponent at the ground level in this game. But when I got ripped off paying upfront that experience changed my perspective in the game. I'm going to still pay after the session is over. If I miss out on a great time with a girl that wants payment upfront, then so be it. There are plenty enough girls in this game to see. Your money is the only leverage and advantage you have when dealing with these girls. Just be careful paying upfront.[/QUOTE]Who are some of your favorite providers in the area?