"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Happy Lover; 1895980]LOL. Made me smile, then laugh, then hmmmm. So mom shares the daughters good looks. Hopefully she shares the same enthusiasm in the FC. Let's say things go well with her. When your 18yo atf new relationship ends (you know those young girl relationships typically last about as long as a business trip) you could be looking at some interesting three way action. WTF, why not? Don't tell me some of you didn't think of that as well.

Have fun with that one! I look forward to hearing how it goes. Should be a page turner.[/QUOTE]That was exactly what I had in mind when I decided to txt back the mom. The potential to tag team both mom / daughter in the same session would be mind blowing, and I would have to crawl out of the FC, not walk.

[QUOTE=Nostra3;1896105]Ok, since we're doing group therapy I want to ask a question. Has anyone ever just said "What would you think about having a sexually open relationship?" I ask because I truly love my wife and I would be physically ill if I had to give up on being a full time dad to my wonderful daughter. But if I could just fuck 20 year olds our marriage would be great! I don't want to be sexually monogamous but I do want to be emotionally monogamous (more or less). Anyone considered it but can't get the nerve to do it? What do you think your SO would say?[/QUOTE]I know I couldn't go there but some people in this sexual world have them. I guess if you are on the cusp between bagging the marriage and throwing this Hail Mary it would be worth a serious discussion. Brother Scott knows Mandy who used to post here, and I believe one of her Daddies was married in an open relationship. I think an open relationship while makes sense to us is a non starter with 99. 9% of the women out there. Open marriages don't last long because one partner is likely to fall for the non married SB / SD or jealousy will take over .

Would you care if your SO had a lover?

[QUOTE=FredMoore; 1896136]I know I couldn't go there but some people in this sexual world have them. I guess if you are on the cusp between bagging the marriage and throwing this Hail Mary it would be worth a serious discussion. Brother Scott knows Mandy who used to post here, and I believe one of her Daddies was married in an open relationship. I think an open relationship while makes sense to us is a non starter with 99. 9% of the women out there. Open marriages don't last long because one partner is likely to fall for the non married SB / SD or jealousy will take over.

Would you care if your SO had a lover?[/QUOTE]Mandy herself was in an open relationship. Both she and hubby had side action going on. The issue I can see is that one would start to compare, unfavorably, the spouse with the Shiny New SB or SD. As has been remarked upon many times in the thread, we bring our A games to these idyllic three hour trysts, and then we leave and go back to whatever issues we are dealing with in real life. That's just tough to deal with; the playing field's not level.

Scott

[QUOTE=Nostra3;1896105]Ok, since we're doing group therapy I want to ask a question. Has anyone ever just said "What would you think about having a sexually open relationship?" I ask because I truly love my wife and I would be physically ill if I had to give up on being a full time dad to my wonderful daughter. But if I could just fuck 20 year olds our marriage would be great! I don't want to be sexually monogamous but I do want to be emotionally monogamous (more or less). Anyone considered it but can't get the nerve to do it? What do you think your SO would say?[/QUOTE]You must be crazy. LOL

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1895768]I hope your trip goes better than mine did with that one my brother. YMMV.

SubCmdr out[/QUOTE]Long time brother subcomannder. Where have you been? We miss your spicy commentary on the blog.

Revvo

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;1896119]That was exactly what I had in mind when I decided to txt back the mom. The potential to tag team both mom / daughter in the same session would be mind blowing, and I would have to crawl out of the FC, not walk.[/QUOTE]Are you sure about that? I hate to be the one sounding like a prude here. But I think it would be easier to ask my wife for the open marriage thing than to have sex with both a wife and a daughter at the same time. LOL Can anyone say incest?

I would be careful with this one.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1896213]Mandy herself was in an open relationship. Both she and hubby had side action going on. The issue I can see is that one would start to compare, unfavorably, the spouse with the Shiny New SB or SD. As has been remarked upon many times in the thread, we bring our A games to these idyllic three hour trysts, and then we leave and go back to whatever issues we are dealing with in real life. That's just tough to deal with; the playing field's not level.

Scott[/QUOTE]The early years of my 23-year relationship (18 married) was "open". Neither of us were actively pursuing many outside relationships, but when things started happening we agreed that we would any more, them happen. Had some fun times both at home and when I traveled on business. Still, after about 5 years it came to an end. Maybe it was because we were both dealing with other issues, maybe it was that one night stands didn't seem so much fun any more or maybe it just petered out (pardon the pun). No kids were involved, neither of us ever saw another person for an extended period of time.

"Open" relationships, even when both parties agree to it, are difficult. It sounds nice, makes some sort of logical sense, but when there are two lovers making demands on you, keeping both happy is tough. Scott 's point is well taken, another reason why it's no job for an amateur.

Now that I'm single again and not looking for an SO, it's either SBs, escorts or give up sex. Not ready for the last option.

Ô¿Ô

C.

[QUOTE=FredMoore; 1896136]I know I couldn't go there but some people in this sexual world have them. I guess if you are on the cusp between bagging the marriage and throwing this Hail Mary it would be worth a serious discussion. Brother Scott knows Mandy who used to post here, and I believe one of her Daddies was married in an open relationship. I think an open relationship while makes sense to us is a non starter with 99. 9% of the women out there. Open marriages don't last long because one partner is likely to fall for the non married SB / SD or jealousy will take over.

Would you care if your SO had a lover?[/QUOTE]Actually Fred. Mandy was in an open marriage. And her husband knew about it. A lot of wives in the USA actually know that their husbands are cheating on them and they do not do anything about it. Because they have it too good otherwise. Lots of financial support, good father to the kids, stable position in their community and social circles. The wife does not want the humiliation of her friends and family knowing she is being cheated on (this is a big one). And if the husband can be discreet about it. It can happen sometimes.

In fact I know someone who has this unspoken arrangement by default. He got caught a couple of times and he told his wife simply."Stop asking me about it and I will not tell you about it. I am not going to leave you, I am not going to be doing anything openly, and I am not going to rub your face in it. But I am also not going to quit." She basically shut up and accepted it.

Actually this is very common in Europe.

Revvo

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1896242]Are you sure about that? I hate to be the one sounding like a prude here. But I think it would be easier to ask my wife for the open marriage thing than to have sex with both a wife and a daughter at the same time. LOL Can anyone say incest?

I would be careful with this one.[/QUOTE]Add me to that list. Even doing them separately would weird me out too much. But that's me I suppose. Hell, I have to consciously avoid thinking about the fact that my SB is younger than any of my nieces, and any of the babysitters we've had for the kids.

[QUOTE=Nostra3;1896105]Ok, since we're doing group therapy I want to ask a question. Has anyone ever just said "What would you think about having a sexually open relationship?" I ask because I truly love my wife and I would be physically ill if I had to give up on being a full time dad to my wonderful daughter. But if I could just fuck 20 year olds our marriage would be great! I don't want to be sexually monogamous but I do want to be emotionally monogamous (more or less). Anyone considered it but can't get the nerve to do it? What do you think your SO would say?[/QUOTE]My $.02 (and no, did not have the nerve to do it back when I was married). Rather than lobbing that grenade out there, figure out a way to expose the wife to the idea, then ask her what she thought. Maybe find a movie where it occurs, or a book, or cite an interesting internet article you just read showing the rise in open marriages, or you heard Mr. And Mrs. Smith over on Elm street are in an open marriage etc. Etc.

The hard part is getting them around to "whats in it for me", right? We men want more sex. Pretty simple, and quite honest. What do they get out of the equation? You not bugging them for sex, bitching about getting more sex, they get a "sugar shopping" allowance each month. I don't know, but seems like fairly standard negotiation strategy to me.

Other tack is to just tell her "I'm not happy with how our marriage is going, I have needs blah blah blah. Might work if your wife is open-minded enough and you can lay down rules around "not in our town" or whatnot.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1895161]I have been where you are brother. And a lot of it is being too nice and having this covert contract that if I am nice to her I will get sex. But for women it does not work that way. They need tension not a nice guy but tension. Notice below I never said give her a gift or flowers. This can unfortunatley come off as needy and pressure to a woman. I quit giving my wife gifts even on holidays and it has not affected anything between us. If anything it has made things better. Ask yourself who are the gifts really for? Do you not think she knows this? Women are very intuitive.

They need tension. One of the ways to give her tension is with transparency and being direct. I would start by sitting her down and telling her what you need. No threats no resentment, no anger. Just what you need. Do this outside of an argument and when you are alone and can talk. Don't ask her about her needs tell her what yours are. Don't ask just tell her. Then just walk away calmly and let it sink in. See what happens. And whatever you do never ever react to her when she refuses sex. Just act as if it does not matter to you. Go on about your lives. See what she does.[/QUOTE]Well, I guess most of the above would either fall into the category of changing my routine, been-there-done-that-didn't-make-much-difference, or really isn't applicable to us or our relationship.

When I do nice and / or romantic things for my SO, there's no hidden agenda intended or inferred. I like doing them, she likes being the object of affection. The "sex bargain" is totally separate. Sex is simply another facet of our relationship, and despite the libido difference she recognizes it as such. Maybe we are unusual individuals, but sex as a bargaining tool really hasn't been a dynamic. When I mentioned my feeling of liberation in my earlier post, it was more that the libido imbalance affects me much more than her, and it's a nice feeling to be out from under that shadow.

As for flirtations or innuendo, those usually get a "that's such boy humor" type of response. Which I've learned not to let annoy me as much. Although I now have a counterexample in my SB, who eats that stuff up like candy.

We have had several calm, neutral talks about our needs. She has taken mine seriously but can't seem to sustain attempts to accommodate them.

Have made a little headway to send an update on.

Local SB's.

Met with a potential local SB on SA. 22, blonde, originally from CA, about 5'7", slim, tight body with a very pretty face. She's looking for 2K / month, but negotiated down to 300 / meet since I had to pay for a hotel. With a goal of 4 meets a month. Met at a Starbucks a few days earlier to confirm her looks. She used a fake pic, but she was actually hotter than the photo. Gave her 1. 5 to set up the hotel room a week later. I know this is a slight risk to walk away, but seems like a good test too. She setup for the room today and things went smoothly. Action was good and she's a vegetarian and yoga enthusiast so she was fresh, limber, and a touch of dirty talk. My only reservation with this one is that during the breaks it was like pulling teeth to have a conversation. I get that I'm probably not her usual "type" but she kind of just stared off and just gave really short answers and rarely brought up more conversation. I'll see if I can get her to open a bit more, but if not I guess she can be more of a booty call girl. She did tell me that she met a couple other guys but they were too creepy and surprisingly she wasn't contacted by very many SD's. I was puzzled by this since I think she is one of the hotter options in the local area, maybe most of the local guys are looking for local asian / hapa girls?

Long Distance SB's.

Not much to report here, just spreading lots of seeds around, getting some responses, but it's slow and steady in this arena. I did get my SA profile verified to see if that would increase my response rate. I think it did and I do get contacted more, but it's mainly African American ladies that I'm not so into.

Homefront.

Surprisingly the SO asked if we should get condoms again. She hadn't exhibited much of a libido since our last kid a couple of years ago and we were not intending to have another. I told her I could pick up some and then she dismissed it saying it would be too difficult since our kids still wake up randomly at night. I told her we could on our date nights and the kids are with the grandparents, but she brushed it off. Going to make sure I dot my I's and cross my t's to make sure I'm not being too suspicious. Thankfully it's football season and soon basketball too and I've set up a routine of constantly checking my phone and computer for scores and stats.

As always thanks to everyone else for sharing their experiences and advice. I much appreciate it.

[QUOTE=Walruscl; 1896324]Well, I guess most of the above would either fall into the category of changing my routine, been-there-done-that-didn't-make-much-difference, or really isn't applicable to us or our relationship.

When I do nice and / or romantic things for my SO, there's no hidden agenda intended or inferred. I like doing them, she likes being the object of affection. The "sex bargain" is totally separate. Sex is simply another facet of our relationship, and despite the libido difference she recognizes it as such. Maybe we are unusual individuals, but sex as a bargaining tool really hasn't been a dynamic. When I mentioned my feeling of liberation in my earlier post, it was more that the libido imbalance affects me much more than her, and it's a nice feeling to be out from under that shadow.

As for flirtations or innuendo, those usually get a "that's such boy humor" type of response. Which I've learned not to let annoy me as much. Although I now have a counterexample in my SB, who eats that stuff up like candy.

We have had several calm, neutral talks about our needs. She has taken mine seriously but can't seem to sustain attempts to accommodate them.[/QUOTE]My bad. I thought there was some references on a previous post about giving gifts,"romantic" gestures, doing a majority of the chores, etc. And the inference that you were not getting anything back for this. But I was mistaken. I must tell you though, if that was me doing all of that I would expect something from her. Especially since I am paying the bills also. By the way as an aside. Today is my 18th wedding anniversary and I did not buy my wife anything other than we are going out for a nice dinner tonight. And she could not be any happier than any of our previous anniversary days.

If this is really a libido thing. I am sorry to hear that. That seems like a really hard road to go down. I really don't know if there is anything you can do about that.

On another point. I will tell you this though. I would definitely have another one of those sit down neutral conversations and talk about her coldness and nasty comments. That is inexcusable regardless of her lack of libido. And that alone will create resentment in you. And that will kill any sexual attraction.

Good luck brother.

Revvo

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1896242]Are you sure about that? I hate to be the one sounding like a prude here. But I think it would be easier to ask my wife for the open marriage thing than to have sex with both a wife and a daughter at the same time. LOL Can anyone say incest?

I would be careful with this one.[/QUOTE]I didn't want to naysay but I agree with Revvo. This sounds TGTBT. Proceed with enormous caution. I smell a trap.

[QUOTE=FredMoore; 1896136]I know I couldn't go there but some people in this sexual world have them. I guess if you are on the cusp between bagging the marriage and throwing this Hail Mary it would be worth a serious discussion. Brother Scott knows Mandy who used to post here, and I believe one of her Daddies was married in an open relationship. I think an open relationship while makes sense to us is a non starter with 99. 9% of the women out there. Open marriages don't last long because one partner is likely to fall for the non married SB / SD or jealousy will take over.

Would you care if your SO had a lover?[/QUOTE]It would be insane to care if your SO had a lover if you are in the Bowl in my opinion. How in the world could you justify that?