"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.

For someone like me not naturally dominant, this knowledge has been helpful. I should look for it in POTs and try to play into their interest if I see it, or soft-pedal it if I don't want to go there. For you pros this may seem lame, but I did a test w / a recent baby in the FC, at one point instructing her to stand up, and then sternly commanded (but w / a smile on my face so she wouldn't be offended if she wasn't into dominance / submission games) 'panties on the floor'. I'd guess I'd get some kind of good reaction to that if she was interested in submission.

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3123278]I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.[/QUOTE]My mama taught me manners, JL.

I am just going to sit back and see if she texts me again, I doubt it. She was rather pretty and getting to much "big money talk" from some of those guys. She said "no other guy had a problem with $1200+ per month (in the pre-arrangement talks)". So she will either find her white whale or get burned somehow like I told her by these "big talk guys".

I honestly met only one cool girl that I enjoy spending time with A to Z. I have to tell myself in one way or another, ALL of these girls have problems one way or another. They are NOT normal (atleast the ones I talked to). Most have money problems, then mental problems, then family problems. It's really a second job for me to weed out the ones with too much baggage for me.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3123278]I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.[/QUOTE]

Lntric, I definitely agree with you about higher costs, but think that for the most part, you get better service. A few rotations ago, I incorporated a former BP girl into my rotation. She didn't know that I knew she was a former BP girl, but her phone linked to BP ads up and down the east coast. There were higher costs in that I brought a bottle of vodka to our dinner m&g at a byob restaurant, took her out to dinner. When the m&g was coming to an end, she was talking about a per date allowance that was double her hourly BP rate. If I had agreed to it, I would have basically shelled out triple what I would have shelled out had I been a BP client. Of course since I did my research prior, I had already set the allowance ceiling in my mind at what her BP rate was based on her ads from a few months back.

When we finalised discussion of allowance I told her that I normally start at what her BP rate had been and we were off to the fc. I covered the cost of the motel as well. In total, after all costs were factored in, I shelled out double what I would have paid had I simply contacted her off BP.

That being said, she was no longer on BP so that wasn't an option. More importantly, the fc session was hands down better than what I have ever had with a BP girl. The end damage was also less than what I would've shelled out with the tradional college coed sb, who would expect to stay at a premium hotel, and would've insisted on going to a much higher end restaurant. I also found a cheap motel in her area that I've shared with brothers like FTP. Unfortunately most other sbs have simply flat out refused to go there out of fear of bedbugs - which I find odd since they don't seem to be afraid of HIV/AIDS. Go figure?

Not sure how this would translate from a service perspective to a higher end provider, since I've found many of them in general to be good at pretending to like me in general (if they do or not, who knows?) To the extent some hobbyists actually do take escorts out to dinner and functions, and pay an hourly rate on top of expenses, I assume it would be less expensive to find a sb instead.

At the end of the day though, it sounds cheesy, but the bowl does allow you to see if you have a connection with a pot. I'm no longer in my prime where seeing a hot spinner naked gets me hard. I need to feel like the girl I'm banging actually likes me. I've found that the higher end providers are better at pretending while a sb / pot generally won't pretend unless she is a utr / pro.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3123205]So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.[/QUOTE]

I'm waiting for the ipo. Brandon Wade owes a big cut of his profits to Jackson though. If it weren't for this forum, all SA would have is the mindless drivel of the reddit blogs.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;3123198]I notice SA has raised it's prices since I upgraded last time. I have to hand it to this guy, he's developed a gold mine.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of a tip HWG posted on this forum years back when I was finding my own way in the bowl.

If you can get someone to say "yes" to something, they're more likely to agree to each successive request. Start out small, then go big. It's a simple sales technique, but hard to implement if you don't want to come off like a used car salesman.

I bet guys who are in sales and trial attorneys do pretty well for themselves in the bowl.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123522]I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.

For someone like me not naturally dominant, this knowledge has been helpful. I should look for it in POTs and try to play into their interest if I see it, or soft-pedal it if I don't want to go there. For you pros this may seem lame, but I did a test w / a recent baby in the FC, at one point instructing her to stand up, and then sternly commanded (but w / a smile on my face so she wouldn't be offended if she wasn't into dominance / submission games) 'panties on the floor'. I'd guess I'd get some kind of good reaction to that if she was interested in submission.

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123527]My mama taught me manners, JL.[/QUOTE]When I was in middle school, my girlfriend's parents found her diary which among other things described coming to my house and getting screwed in my bedroom. Her livid parents called mine to complain, and at some point during that shit-fight my mother gave me advice that I still remember today but have consistently failed to heed. She claimed nice girls don't do oral sex. I ignored her warning and felt sorry for my dad ever since.

She probably told me to be polite at some point, too. I don't remember.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3123393]We are on the same page brother. Its why I don't write about my ability to grow a second Penis on demand, which generally makes the pots panties drop. After a fc session with me, I try to gift them, but they often regift my allowance back to me. I know it's a gift I've been born with, perhaps one I've mastered over the years. Other brothers can't recreate it, but I'll share my experiences, because I'm a stand up guy.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Like you FFA, I see this board as a means of sharing helpful advice, furthering the discussion of the bowl, and learning about others tactics to see if I can incorporate them into my game.

I don't mind the brag stories since I have told my fair share. Where else can we find an outlet? Not like you can talk about the 20 year old who let you cum in her ass with your brother in law or the team you're supervising on some project.

This board used to be a place where you could ask a question and get great advice. Let's get back there.[/QUOTE]Woooohooo bravo!

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3123777]I am just going to sit back and see if she texts me again, I doubt it. She was rather pretty and getting to much "big money talk" from some of those guys. She said "no other guy had a problem with $1200+ per month (in the pre-arrangement talks)". So she will either find her white whale or get burned somehow like I told her by these "big talk guys".

I honestly met only one cool girl that I enjoy spending time with A to Z. I have to tell myself in one way or another, ALL of these girls have problems one way or another. They are NOT normal (atleast the ones I talked to). Most have money problems, then mental problems, then family problems. It's really a second job for me to weed out the ones with too much baggage for me.[/QUOTE]All of the SBs I've known (and large percent of strictly civy girls) have daddy issues to some degree. This is not to say that all girls that are found on SB sites do, but the type that I meet do, without fail.

As far as money problems, I think all girls in the typical SB age bracket are going to have money problems simply because of where they are in life career-wise, versus their spending wants and needs. And I'm not sure that necessarily goes away with career success, I've known a few with very well paying jobs but of course they will tell you its not enough. The question is, what does "not enough" mean? Not enough to survive? To put food on the table? To keep the lights on? Or not enough to afford Christian Louboutin shoes in every possible style and color? Upon further analysis, it's almost always something like the latter. But then again, if someone asked me if I have enough money I would say not enough to feel like I should stop trying to earn it. Do any of us really ever have enough?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123522]I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for.

...

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.[/QUOTE]I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3124271]I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.[/QUOTE]To me the key is whether I gift them or if they ask for it to meet. In the latter case, I'd be much less willing. I cancelled a M&G from a POT I really wanted to meet and had intended to give what I now realize was a ridiculous $ when, just before it was supposed to happen, she asked me for an even more ridiculous amount. My baby I just posted about taking to the FC. I used intel to find her FB, and learned she loves a particular kind of makeup. At the M&G I (unexpectedly for her) gave her a gift card for that exact makeup. She melted.

Your first question for POTs is very pertinent and I will use that. Your second point doesn't apply much to us married guys, b / c it can be hard to wine and dine with evening dinners when you have a SO expecting you home.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123522]I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.[/QUOTE]I think you're probably misunderstanding what takes place with the SBs I see. The ones I end up with don't even ask how much they are going to get, so it's not like I'm putting them in some subservient role by not telling them.

Anyone who understands ANYTHING about women will be able to relate to the following truism: Girls can be interested in dating you, or they can be interested in having their hands in your pockets. In sugar dating, at the level of initial expectation, it is usually somewhere in between.

So, the more you can filter out the girls you approach to those who might be able to picture themselves on your arm as more than a paid sex toy, the better off your chances are at encountering babies that don't care as much about sugar. When they don't care as much about sugar, they express this by not bringing up the subject. They are afraid to lose the get the chance to know you.

Very clearly, not all women want to get to know me. Hell, I've had some that flat out said "sorry, you're too old and not really my type". I love to hear that because it means very quickly I can place her in the ignore bin and move on to the next. The faster I can repeat that process, the faster I can line up POTS that do have some genuine attraction to me. I never send them fake pictures, nor do I send them "optimistic" photos where I took 1,000 pics then chose the best 3. I send them photos of me in ordinary situations doing ordinary things. If I don't get a positive response to my photo, I'm already a bit suspicious of whether she even has the potential to be the kind of SB I am looking for.

I can compare their initial response to my photos and benchmark it against how a civy prospect on match would behave. Is it similar? Or is she just trying to cater to my horny sensibilities? I've talked a lot about the value of interacting with strippers. They are an excellent workout for learning to deal with women who are professionals at catering to the male ego. Once you've learned all of their tricks, it's easier to pluck prime fruit from the trees of the bowl.

What I think so many people forget here, is how big the pool of women really is. Does anyone else out there have 75+ different city searches saved in their SA account? I do. They aren't all unique cities, there are duplicate cities but there are variations for each city, with variations refining by race, height, body type, etc. Once you start working that many saved searches, you start to realize how much bigger the scene is than the typical SD perspective.

I would say that the girls I actually interact with and even exchange enough texts / mail with to line up meets do not even represent .5% of the total variations of personality combinations out there. Meaning, there are a lot of girls I never contact. Of the girls I do contact, there are a lot that never respond. Of the ones that do respond, there are a lot that disappoint me by attempting to talk about agreed on amounts up front, or exhibit signs of UTRs, or force me to reject further interaction with them for some other reason.

What this ultimately leads to is that the girls that I actually do take to the fuck chamber end up being an even smaller personality sample size than the .5% that I made a valid pass at. Once it's all filtered down, I'm looking for just a few decent girls in any given metro area. It takes a lot of work to get there but it narrows my girls down to a fraction of a percent of the representative female website population. Are they unicorns? It might seem that way if one is working a single city, or worse a small town. Try opening it up to dozens of cities and you'll find there are a shitload of these unicorns if you're willing to put in the effort and time and know how to attract that type of girl.

So now, anyone who has sat back and said "why am I not meeting these girls"? Its probably because they going after the girls that are not in that fraction of a percent. Their own personal preferences, biases, filtering mechanisms, etc. Have conditioned and tailored the results according to their own way of doing things, their biases, their perceptions, their dating habits. I've read most of the SB blogs in other cities here, and I've seen guys posts pics and SA profile names. Not one single time have I seen a girl I knew mentioned, on the Richmond board or any other city that I sugar date in. Most of these girls that have multiple daddies that know them are by my definition UTR girls. They are not interested in meeting potential boyfriends. Most of the girls I meet are -- at least that's the vibe they give off.

What I do know is that there have been plenty of guys post here, even if they may not post regularly, that have had similar experiences to mine -- girls that are looking for something beyond a quick tryst in a hotel room and are hoping it will turn into something other than a money exchange. It's really not as unique, or complicated, or sinister, or hard to believe as some here would like to make it out. There have been at least 7-8 guys posting here in recent months with similar experiences.

For those who are saying "these girls would never fuck me unless I pay them", the problem is most likely that you are aiming out of your own league. You have 3 choices there, either lower your standards, better yourself, or just resign to the fact that pussy will need to be paid for in cash.

Most of the tips that I've posted in the past are aimed at those who either feel like they're paying too much or want more genuine interest from girls, and are interested in bettering themselves. Clearly they aren't for everyone. Some don't have the time, self-motivation, or even the belief that they could be better. They say the first challenge to making change successfully is to be able to envision yourself after the proposed improvements you'd like to make. If some of these resentful posters cannot picture themselves as anything but a lost cause, they are never going to be able to break out of it and should just get used to the fact that its pay for play or none at all in their case.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3124271]I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.[/QUOTE]Not only this, but I'd say the number of guys over the years that have posted positive results from upfront payments are overshadowed by negative experiences on a ratio of somewhere between 5:1 and 10:1. The golden rule about no payment until after the panties drop became mantra here for a reason.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3124339]Not only this, but I'd say the number of guys over the years that have posted positive results from upfront payments are overshadowed by negative experiences on a ratio of somewhere between 5:1 and 10:1. The golden rule about no payment until after the panties drop became mantra here for a reason.[/QUOTE]Maybe it's just the liberal women in California. Or the heights I've been aiming for in girls. I don't aim to be duped, and I haven't done perfectly, but it's been allright. My very first meet I tried to help her too much and that was a bust, but otherwise I've not had anyone who got any gift at the M&G not go to the FC. A red daddy wants assurance that every dime he pays comes back to him in pussy. A blue daddy is playing the odds, evaluating the prospects, and giving a gift when it seems likely it is going to pay off. Often, I have also used intel to identify the girl, so she is not totally anonymous. But I don't know how that helps me. Other than knowing the thing to give her that touches her personally. Certainly not so I can track her down and ask for sugar back if she didn't fuck me. That's not the point. I gave that to her of my own volition. I could hit a cold streak of course. The videogirl (another Playboy model) I met this morning got a little sugar and has asked for an allowance of 2. 5 K / mo. That can't happen w / me, but I am 99% sure I can get into her pants w / a PPM, her initial proposal. After that, who knows.

Everything was cool. I left and on the way home, she texts nice things then asks if I want to do an arrangement. It gets down to "I don't sleep with with strangers sorry" so my reply was "I don't give money to strangers, sorry".

I also said I am not interested in a girl who wants a money grab. My tactics sort of worked. We will see. I think I am going to probably forget this one.

I responded to a married woman's post on CL. Had some decent exchanges, she sent a partial photo, not really my type. I was also playing with SA POTs and told her that I was going in a different direction. She gets herself a SA profile, which I see as it is new. I am deactivated there a lot of the time but evidently while I was on she saw my profile and put 2 and 2 together. Initially, 'why don't you like me?' I replied I wasn't interested in what she was. She starts sending me irate emails. Then she says that I am a creep, etc. , threatens me by saying I am easy to find. I don't believe that to be the case. I never gave her a phone # and would have been my sugar burner. I got onto SA and both blocked her and reported her (the closest I could find was 'threatening violence' Didn't exactly do that but threatening? - hell yes. Watch out out there. The internet. What a place.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3124366]Maybe it's just the liberal women in California. Or the heights I've been aiming for in girls. I don't aim to be duped, and I haven't done perfectly, but it's been allright. My very first meet I tried to help her too much and that was a bust, but otherwise I've not had anyone who got any gift at the M&G not go to the FC. A red daddy wants assurance that every dime he pays comes back to him in pussy. A blue daddy is playing the odds, evaluating the prospects, and giving a gift when it seems likely it is going to pay off. Often, I have also used intel to identify the girl, so she is not totally anonymous. But I don't know how that helps me. Other than knowing the thing to give her that touches her personally. Certainly not so I can track her down and ask for sugar back if she didn't fuck me. That's not the point. I gave that to her of my own volition. I could hit a cold streak of course. The videogirl (another Playboy model) I met this morning got a little sugar and has asked for an allowance of 2. 5 K / mo. That can't happen w / me, but I am 99% sure I can get into her pants w / a PPM, her initial proposal. After that, who knows.[/QUOTE] The bowl couldn't have less in the world to do with politics. So please, don't bring that into the forum. Folks have tried it before. Completely off topic for sugaring.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3124553]I responded to a married woman's post on CL. Had some decent exchanges, she sent a partial photo, not really my type. I was also playing with SA POTs and told her that I was going in a different direction. She gets herself a SA profile, which I see as it is new. I am deactivated there a lot of the time but evidently while I was on she saw my profile and put 2 and 2 together. Initially, 'why don't you like me?' I replied I wasn't interested in what she was. She starts sending me irate emails. Then she says that I am a creep, etc. , threatens me by saying I am easy to find. I don't believe that to be the case. I never gave her a phone # and would have been my sugar burner. I got onto SA and both blocked her and reported her (the closest I could find was 'threatening violence' Didn't exactly do that but threatening? - hell yes. Watch out out there. The internet. What a place.[/QUOTE]Some of them are just plain nuts. If they were hot, emotionally stable and intelligent all at the same time they wouldn't be on an SB site to begin with.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3123254]All I can say is that yes, "dating" them is the key to paying little or none. Just be careful about sharing such taboo subjects on net forums, because some folks will be unable to contain their jealousy and attempt to undermine your credibility in hopes of somehow making your life as sad and miserable as theirs. They will fumble around in their own disbelief that such things can actually occur! Blashpemy! How that can be? It doesn't happen to them, therefore it cannot possibly happen to anyone else. Their only recourse is to attempt to focus their attention on YOUR life, studying you and hoping to find things wrong in your every thought, ignoring their own problems, adding underhanded references to you in Every. Single. Post (tm). And why shouldn't their behavior be a pathetic reflection of their pathetic lives? Its who they are. StalkerFanBoi behavior is deeply rooted in their own insecurity, they wear it on their sleeve. Every time the doctor backs off slightly on their psycho-meds or switches them to a new one, we can expect similarly erratic behaviors.

That said, most of the SBs I am involved with involves some form of dating. I go out clubbing and dancing with them, even though I don't necessarily want to in every case. More than once I've sat there in a club table with people 20-30 years younger than me, smiling and pretending that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else, just to be sure I was giving her the night out on the town she was looking for. I don't blink when she orders one expensive mixed drink, takes four sips of it then discards and orders something else. It's not my preference but it pays off in the sense that after she is properly fucked, she is way more focused more on how much fun she had than how much cash she's going to have in her purse later. Its a different way of sugaring than just scurrying them off to a hotel room for an hour or so of paid sex, but it pays big dividends overall in terms of the cash you give her or at least her expectations for same. And overall I do sometimes enjoy the dating aspect, aside from the occasional times when I'm forced to socialize with her friends from high school or whatever. It's not too bad at my current age because I still look a lot younger than I am. When I'm 70 that might get pretty awkward, maybe I will have outgrown this phase by then. I swear to god I think it's becoming more and more accepted by that age group for the girls to have boyfriends older than their dads. Their friends don't seem to blink an eye. Maybe they've got them too?[/QUOTE]I have found this to be very true out here in LA. The majority of the SB's I look for are young and inexperienced in terms of life experience and they only thing they have spent time on is sex. On more than one occasion I have said to my date, "Order whatever you want. " and they have ordered something very simple. It's the opportunity to able to order anything they want that excites them but they are still intimidated, young, and want to be liked that will keep them from taking you for a ride. Now, I am talking about a certain type. These aren't 10's. Although I did have one incredible afternoon with a gorgeous AF with a body that was mind blowing basically because I bought her a nice, (not crazy expensive) lunch. She wised up after, but so what, that is her choice. She had fun and I had fun and she realized she could get more $ from someone else. Good for her.

[QUOTE=LargeEss;3124828]I have found this to be very true out here in LA. The majority of the SB's I look for are young and inexperienced in terms of life experience and they only thing they have spent time on is sex. On more than one occasion I have said to my date, "Order whatever you want. " and they have ordered something very simple. It's the opportunity to able to order anything they want that excites them but they are still intimidated, young, and want to be liked that will keep them from taking you for a ride. Now, I am talking about a certain type. These aren't 10's. Although I did have one incredible afternoon with a gorgeous AF with a body that was mind blowing basically because I bought her a nice, (not crazy expensive) lunch. She wised up after, but so what, that is her choice. She had fun and I had fun and she realized she could get more $ from someone else. Good for her.[/QUOTE]I too take the "order whatever you want" attitude. Most of these girls I plan for meet for a "night out", and by that I mean I want her to have a good time starting from the first hello and hug until the kiss goodbye the next morning.

Some of the younger ones are so amazed both that they are able to indulge without rules and from the level of sexual activity they receive that they are just star struck about the whole event, texting me for the next week about how they can't get me out of their mind. Those are the girls I like -- it indicates the young and (relatively) innocent.

There are other girls who will tell me flat out "listen I don't need to go to expensive places, I need someone who can help me financially". And those girls get silence from me after I identify who and what they are, because they are a dime a dozen. They don't even think about the fact that an established SD has a price on his own time, in my case the billable hourly rate to my clients is a lot more than an escort would charge a john. The riffraff girls do not value my time and understand that it is a shared endeavor, they only think about what THEY will get out of it in terms of cash allowance. This is why I discard the rats and search for the diamonds even if it takes longer.

I could write back and say "sorry I'm looking for quality girls not Internet sex site roadkill" but there's no real benefit of doing that so I refrain.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3124817]Some of them are just plain nuts. If they were hot, emotionally stable and intelligent all at the same time they wouldn't be on an SB site to begin with.[/QUOTE]There are exceptions to every rule. My peds baby is all of that. She was on SA to meet a guy that would treat her with respect, understand that she works insane hours, and have the means to wine and dine her. She tried the traditional online sites, but she said she only met losers and posers.

I won't argue that she's a unicorn. She is. Just that there are exceptions.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3124849]There are exceptions to every rule. My peds baby is all of that. She was on SA to meet a guy that would treat her with respect, understand that she works insane hours, and have the means to wine and dine her. She tried the traditional online sites, but she said she only met losers and posers.

I won't argue that she's a unicorn. She is. Just that there are exceptions.[/QUOTE]I have no doubt met lots of hot ones, some that are hot and smart, and there have been a few that *struck* me as being emotionally stable people. But, even in talking to them about my perception of them, they usually start to reveal things like "oh, you haven't seen me when things get really bad yet", and proceed to tell me about the dark side of their temper or whatever.

Admittedly, my experience may be limited here because I have never LIVED with a sugar baby. But I know one thing, you have to live with them to be able to fully judge if they are an emotionally stable person or not. If you have not been in the same dwelling with them full time through at least 6 menstrual cycles, you don't quite know them yet.

Honestly I've known guys who have been with their wives for 10+ years and did not really get introduced to the full spectrum of their emotional instability until divorce proceedings began.

But yes, I understand what you're saying. My generalization was not necessarily fair, in the sense that it can only possibly be applied to the women I've met on SB sites, and as I pointed out in another message, the women known by one SD is not necessarily representative of all of them. To further complicate matters, terms like "hot", "smart" and "stable" are also subjective in nature and a matter of individual opinion.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3124810]The bowl couldn't have less in the world to do with politics. So please, don't bring that into the forum. Folks have tried it before. Completely off topic for sugaring.[/QUOTE]Peace, JL. Figuratively speaking.

In my perusing of Tinder and CL I've run across the scam of sending you to a verification site a bunch of times. This was the first time I've seen it on SA and seemed to be for SA's background verification. There were several strange things about her profile. Her ethnicity was listed as Native American, but her pic is a pale white blonde. Her profile talks about looking for a long term relationship, but her first message is asking me to get together to be an "nsa sex buddy" at a luxury hotel she's staying at. That's always a red flag for a scammer. The 3rd tip off is that her grammar was just a touch awkward with strange phrasing of things. Anyway, she of course says to meet I have to get SA's LDS (Local Discreet Stamp of SA). I do notice that SA's background check is with a 3rd party company. Perhaps that company is placing false profiles to scam people into the service.

Good hunting,

Travelin.

[QUOTE=LargeEss;3124828]I have found this to be very true out here in LA. The majority of the SB's I look for are young and inexperienced in terms of life experience and they only thing they have spent time on is sex. On more than one occasion I have said to my date, "Order whatever you want. " and they have ordered something very simple. It's the opportunity to able to order anything they want that excites them but they are still intimidated, young, and want to be liked that will keep them from taking you for a ride. Now, I am talking about a certain type. These aren't 10's. Although I did have one incredible afternoon with a gorgeous AF with a body that was mind blowing basically because I bought her a nice, (not crazy expensive) lunch. She wised up after, but so what, that is her choice. She had fun and I had fun and she realized she could get more $ from someone else. Good for her.[/QUOTE]LS. I would have PMed you with this?, but your mailbox is full. I wondered what that AF acronym was. Asian female, or a typo. I'd also appreciate gleaning from your local knowledge, as you are in near and I am relatively new, so I will review all your old posts.

I M&G w / a girl today w / a 213 area code. Found her from my CL ad. She is now setting up a studio girls can do webcams from. I found one of her ads for girls and it says she was a performer for 6 years. Very pretty, bangin' body, smart, business oriented. I am trying to track down if she was / is someone that whole webcam community knows about. Any suggestions how I go about that? I can't find anything on this site. And I don't know what that would mean for her potential as a SB.

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3124520]Everything was cool. I left and on the way home, she texts nice things then asks if I want to do an arrangement. It gets down to "I don't sleep with with strangers sorry" so my reply was "I don't give money to strangers, sorry".

I also said I am not interested in a girl who wants a money grab. My tactics sort of worked. We will see. I think I am going to probably forget this one.[/QUOTE]That sounds a little like my one horror-date SB. She met me, then cut our date short, then started texting me about whether I wanted to fuck her or not and if so why I didn't advance quickly enough. It became clear she cut the date short so that she could text me about money (she apparently didn't have the courage to discuss in person I guess). It went no where fast, I said thanks but no thanks. I later looked her up on FB and she was in a very serious relationship with another girl. I thought about the old joke "she didn't like ME? She just be a lezbo". LOL. But in that one case it was true.

The only other M&G I've had that didn't go to the FC was different. I just wasn't into her, the pics were better than the real person. Very nice girl and can't even say she misrepresented herself at all, just didn't feel motivated -- I felt a little bad about it but I had to say thanks but no thanks again for a different reason.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3124902]LS. I would have PMed you with this?, but your mailbox is full. I wondered what that AF acronym was. Asian female, or a typo. I'd also appreciate gleaning from your local knowledge, as you are in near and I am relatively new, so I will review all your old posts.

I M&G w / a girl today w / a 213 area code. Found her from my CL ad. She is now setting up a studio girls can do webcams from. I found one of her ads for girls and it says she was a performer for 6 years. Very pretty, bangin' body, smart, business oriented. I am trying to track down if she was / is someone that whole webcam community knows about. Any suggestions how I go about that? I can't find anything on this site. And I don't know what that would mean for her potential as a SB.[/QUOTE]Hi.

I shoot content for a number of cam girls pm me.

Cheers.

Have seen of recent several SBs who post in their profiles that they are open to a platonic relationship. Now, I don't waste time on them as there are plenty of fish in the bowl. Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments.

But I am wondering if any dudes have flipped such a girl and what were their experiences? Anything in their profile that was key that they might flip?

Just askin'.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3125387] Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments. [/QUOTE]Then today's your lucky day because there is an FAQ entry customized just for folks like you: [URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ&p=2619514&viewfull=1#post2619514[/URL].

It takes so much less effort to just not read that which doesn't interest you than it does to publicly cry about its existence.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3125387]Have seen of recent several SBs who post in their profiles that they are open to a platonic relationship. Now, I don't waste time on them as there are plenty of fish in the bowl. Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments.

But I am wondering if any dudes have flipped such a girl and what were their experiences? Anything in their profile that was key that they might flip?

Just askin'.[/QUOTE]True story: Just last week I sent a message to a college girl that had platonic in her bio because she was cute. She reaffirmed no sex preference in her initial response, then I said I approach this as a normal relationship which does include intimacy and wished her well. Her very next message said she would not only meet me intimately but would be willing to bring a cute friend (sent pics) if I wanted both! Although they were ready, 2. 5 K each / month was too pricey for a long term arrangement (my preference). You never know!

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3125565]True story: Just last week I sent a message to a college girl that had platonic in her bio because she was cute. She reaffirmed no sex preference in her initial response, then I said I approach this as a normal relationship which does include intimacy and wished her well. Her very next message said she would not only meet me intimately but would be willing to bring a cute friend (sent pics) if I wanted both! Although they were ready, 2. 5 K each / month was too pricey for a long term arrangement (my preference). You never know![/QUOTE]The advice from Hollywood Guy has been that you should never take at face value something a girl <23 puts in her profile. They're just clueless in some cases. The 'expectation' in particular they may not have paid attention to, or especially been able to do the math to figure out that 5 meets / mo at 10 K / mo is 2 K / meet - 'High' just sounded good to them. Some girls may put platonic b / c they don't want to be approached like hookers, and reading profiles it is apparent that many guys on SA are making approaches in the crudest ways. I've heard the same stories from my babies too. If I liked a girl who says platonic, I'd try them.

There are other pointers about who to approach based on the profile you can find here or on the archive post. I was VERY impressed w / the point JZlizard made recently that girls who put stuff in like 'I don't need luxury goods and fancy dinners, I'm a starving college student and need tuition' were immediate rule-outs. You can read his rationale, which I find impeccable, but this was a great pointer for me, a relative newbie. On its face, that profile draws my attention (well, it did) as it sounds like someone who is reasonable. Maybe that is the problem. They are flinty-eyed accountants, not wild babies who want to do something adventurous including suck the dick of someone old enough to be their grandpa (me).

So I learned a very important lesson. Much like the escorting world you need to remember that everything is negotiable. So long story short I met a girl on Match in January and she was a young Ukrainian girl who was going to a local community college. She wanted to be exclusive and there was a 20 year gap but I eventually agreed. We date for 3 months and I find a profile she had made on SA. As soon as I find out I kicked her to the curb. Looking back I wish I had stuck it out. It would have been good to get that pussy for free while someone was paying for it but what got me mad was that she lied to me. She was was a good looking girl trying to get into the medical field and shew as asking for moderate expectation which I believe is about $3 K / month. I did my research and I was able to find someone on this board who paid her $200 to go to the FC. So leason here is don't be afraid to reach out to those expensive SB. At the end of the day they may be likely to come way down.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3125861]So I learned a very important lesson. Much like the escorting world you need to remember that everything is negotiable. So long story short I met a girl on Match in January and she was a young Ukrainian girl who was going to a local community college. She wanted to be exclusive and there was a 20 year gap but I eventually agreed. We date for 3 months and I find a profile she had made on SA. As soon as I find out I kicked her to the curb. Looking back I wish I had stuck it out. It would have been good to get that pussy for free while someone was paying for it but what got me mad was that she lied to me. She was was a good looking girl trying to get into the medical field and shew as asking for moderate expectation which I believe is about $3 K / month. I did my research and I was able to find someone on this board who paid her $200 to go to the FC. So leason here is don't be afraid to reach out to those expensive SB. At the end of the day they may be likely to come way down.[/QUOTE]K you lost me on this. Your mad because you got cheated on civy dating a younger woman. Did you fall in love omr what am I missing. What was you footing bill wise. Alot of these girls have multiplex daddies so if your getting it for free what was you out other than free puszsy and I guess an emotional attachment that wasn't returned? Still looks win win to me.

Happened to me too (on Tinder). I signed up a few days ago just to check things out. (turns out I did spot a few SB on there, one from SA). My first match sounded great and close by. We exchanged a few messages and suddenly bam, she asks me to verify my age with a credit card. WTF? I ignored her, but she keeps insisting. Little do I know that I'm talking to a "bot".

[URL]http://fusion.net/story/181565/am-i-chatting-with-a-bot/[/URL]

So it turns out, if you get a match immediately or within a few seconds, you're probably talking to an algorithm. If in doubt, ask her to spell "Me so horny" backwards.

On a related note, I got a reply on SA today, no intro no nothing, just straight up telling me the only way she'll agree to meet is if I first send her a gift via Venmo "to make sure I'm real". Yaa, right. Blocker her.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;3124892]In my perusing of Tinder and CL I've run across the scam of sending you to a verification site a bunch of times. This was the first time I've seen it on SA and seemed to be for SA's background verification. There were several strange things about her profile. Her ethnicity was listed as Native American, but her pic is a pale white blonde. Her profile talks about looking for a long term relationship, but her first message is asking me to get together to be an "nsa sex buddy" at a luxury hotel she's staying at. That's always a red flag for a scammer. The 3rd tip off is that her grammar was just a touch awkward with strange phrasing of things. Anyway, she of course says to meet I have to get SA's LDS (Local Discreet Stamp of SA). I do notice that SA's background check is with a 3rd party company. Perhaps that company is placing false profiles to scam people into the service.

Good hunting,

Travelin.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3125387]Have seen of recent several SBs who post in their profiles that they are open to a platonic relationship. Now, I don't waste time on them as there are plenty of fish in the bowl. Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments.

But I am wondering if any dudes have flipped such a girl and what were their experiences? Anything in their profile that was key that they might flip?

Just askin'.[/QUOTE]I've flipped many hunnies in the AMP world. I'd suggest try asking them if they'd be open to something less than FC, e. G. Massage, lingerie modeling, BJ / HJ, even body painting. If they agree to giving / receiving nude massage, and they can see that you're a nice guy, not a freak or psycho, and that they can make much more, 9/10 you're golden. Just don't do anything stupid, don't be pushy, be on your best manners and be prepared to go home packing blue balls if she's not ready for it.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3125951]K you lost me on this. Your mad because you got cheated on civy dating a younger woman. Did you fall in love omr what am I missing. What was you footing bill wise. Alot of these girls have multiplex daddies so if your getting it for free what was you out other than free puszsy and I guess an emotional attachment that wasn't returned? Still looks win win to me.[/QUOTE]Well I can kind of relate to his story, because more than once I've met girls that were "reluctant SBs" on Match, and I can tell you they are frustrating as hell to date. They will tell you that the fact you're twice their age is not a problem for them, just don't ever mistake them for a gold-digger because that's not them. They will go so far out of their way to separate any sort of financial support from the equation, yet simultaneously complain about financial problems. To give a prime example, I had a 24 year old lingerie model (a real one, not a "craigslist" lingerie model but one that received paychecks from a lingerie company), and I once handed her a sealed white envelope full of cash, which I had intentionally put as many $10 bills in as possible to fatten the envelope. As she sat there and considered it, I could see her massaging the paper between her thumb and forefinger trying to guess at the amount, but ultimately she handed it back to me without opening it. They will go through all these backward somersaults to prove to you how much they don't want your money, then later you see them on an SD site and they go "oh! Haha! I just did that as a joke I forgot that profile was there".

So yes, it can be frustrating as hell. You don't have to be in love with them to get fed up with their games. They are on Match because they are looking for something real (real but old enough to be their dad in many cases). But, its as if they are lining that one up for a long-term security blanket, maybe the father of their child or whatever. Then they go and post a profile on a sugar site that presents themselves as an SB. And more than likely, the guy that gifts them directly ends up with better sex, because they are lining up the freebie guy for boyfriend material (so they are going to try to play the role of the virgin mary or as close as possible), and they are going to unleash their inner sl_t with whatever SD they met on the arrangement site, giving him the better sexual performance.

This is why most of the time I'd rather just go straight for the arrangement site. The only exception to that is if you do not have an SO and are a single guy, it behooves you to be on Match, POF, and many others because they are incredible outlets for free pussy, very cost effective compared to SD site memberships (like probably one fourth the cost or less), and by casting a wide net on lots of dating sites you always have something lined up. Single guys really shouldn't miss out on it. It's a bit dangerous for guys with an SO, because a lot of these girls on Match are not looking for someone who is already attached and won't appreciate a bait and switch, whereas girls on an SD site tend to not care about that at all.

In my opinion, nobody should ever expect "exclusive" to be what it says it is with a paid SB.

But Lintric as you suggested, I would have just kept my cool and kept fucking her for what it's worth, but lining up and banging other prospects at the same time, as long as banging her was not eroding time that could be spent looking for something better.

I wrote about this here in the past but maybe not in a while. When I was single, I would actually limit the amount of time I spent on "wild girls" (strippers, sugarbabies, bar sl_ts, whatever), because I wanted to focus my efforts on finding someone I might actually have a future with. I kept as many fuckbuddies in rotation as I could just to meet general needs, but I always considered it supplemental activity and not the end game.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3126133]Well I can kind of relate to his story, because more than once I've met girls that were "reluctant SBs" on Match, and I can tell you they are frustrating as hell to date. They will tell you that the fact you're twice their age is not a problem for them, just don't ever mistake them for a gold-digger because that's not them. They will go so far out of their way to separate any sort of financial support from the equation, yet simultaneously complain about financial problems. To give a prime example, I had a 24 year old lingerie model (a real one, not a "craigslist" lingerie model but one that received paychecks from a lingerie company), and I once handed her a sealed white envelope full of cash, which I had intentionally put as many $10 bills in as possible to fatten the envelope. As she sat there and considered it, I could see her massaging the paper between her thumb and forefinger trying to guess at the amount, but ultimately she handed it back to me without opening it. They will go through all these backward somersaults to prove to you how much they don't want your money, then later you see them on an SD site and they go "oh! Haha! I just did that as a joke I forgot that profile was there".

So yes, it can be frustrating as hell. You don't have to be in love with them to get fed up with their games. They are on Match because they are looking for something real (real but old enough to be their dad in many cases). But, its as if they are lining that one up for a long-term security blanket, maybe the father of their child or whatever. Then they go and post a profile on a sugar site that presents themselves as an SB. And more than likely, the guy that gifts them directly ends up with better sex, because they are lining up the freebie guy for boyfriend material (so they are going to try to play the role of the virgin mary or as close as possible), and they are going to unleash their inner sl_t with whatever SD they met on the arrangement site, giving him the better sexual performance.

This is why most of the time I'd rather just go straight for the arrangement site. The only exception to that is if you do not have an SO and are a single guy, it behooves you to be on Match, POF, and many others because they are incredible outlets for free pussy, very cost effective compared to SD site memberships (like probably one fourth the cost or less), and by casting a wide net on lots of dating sites you always have something lined up. Single guys really shouldn't miss out on it. It's a bit dangerous for guys with an SO, because a lot of these girls on Match are not looking for someone who is already attached and won't appreciate a bait and switch, whereas girls on an SD site tend to not care about that at all.

In my opinion, nobody should ever expect "exclusive" to be what it says it is with a paid SB.

But Lintric as you suggested, I would have just kept my cool and kept fucking her for what it's worth, but lining up and banging other prospects at the same time, as long as banging her was not eroding time that could be spent looking for something better.

I wrote about this here in the past but maybe not in a while. When I was single, I would actually limit the amount of time I spent on "wild girls" (strippers, sugarbabies, bar sl_ts, whatever), because I wanted to focus my efforts on finding someone I might actually have a future with. I kept as many fuckbuddies in rotation as I could just to meet general needs, but I always considered it supplemental activity and not the end game.[/QUOTE]I don't think when there is a big age difference such as 20 years there is any future unless your just so loaded its worth it for them to wait for ya to die LOL. At that difference its today and possibly tomorrow. They don't get any sugar and whine about bills, big deal, if your fucking them. Now if you were to actually help and cared then maybe they wouldn't be out fucking for 200. I mean mongers move on pretty fast when paying and they look crosseyed at them the wrong way. Just saying guys tend to be really bad boyfriends but have no problem shelling out $$$ for paid pussy. I can see if your attached how you would feel if you found out she was fucking around and if she was selling pussy. Probably about the same way a SO would feel. Now I'm rambling so going back to bed. Oh one last thought. Statistics show more women fuck around on the SO than men and 95% never get caught. So like you said never count on an exclusive relationship.

Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.

It means she has something to lose if your arrangement is made public. She's less likely to post your pic on Twitter if she has a bf. This of course assumes you care about discretion. It also means juggling multiple daddies is going to be difficult. I view it as completely normal for a young lady to want to be in a relationship with a guy closers to her age. All of his faults will make her appreciate her time with you more.

Make sure you're though that you aren't the guy that she is "in the relationship" with. It's fine if you're like biker rider or Hoya and want to date your babies, but I'm assuming you play in the bowl for discretion.

Also, the fact that you have access to her fb account with her not knowing is great. You can keep tabs on her.

[QUOTE=Tc9869;3126513]Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tc9869;3126513]Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.[/QUOTE]Imagine from a distance you had seen her out w / him or w / another sd, but she didn't know you saw her, so what? You could tell her you saw her or not, or you could ask her if she is involved w / anyone else, even as she could ask you if your married, etc. Just ask, if she is ok w / it and you are too then all is good.