"Sugar Babies" and "Arrangements"

I've had the same experience here as everyone else. They won't budge from the very high m&g fee. I've even tried to offer smaller fee w / higher ppm with no luck. I've privated messaged with a senior member here who says he use to see the tall blonde for a while and thought it was possible to get them down off the m&g fee but I've yet to crack the code.

[QUOTE=HoWhisperer;6379120]I searched the name leighandjaid and found the posts below. Looks to me like a couple of young girls looking to play the players. . . :[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Loop285;6379471]Looking to transition from Eros, LC and Strippers to SA. I don't like listcrawler because a majority of chicks have bad hygiene, drug problems, pimps, catfishes, and bad attitudes. Eros isn't bad but the women are robotic a majority of the times and I sense many don't like what they do. I have a great rotation of strippers I see otc, but it can be a lot of work at times to get an outside of the club thing going.

Any do's or don't s before I start?[/QUOTE]I tried SA. First of all, it takes a lot of effort to meet someone. Most girls are just scammers. I met few and things went well, but takes a lot of time and luck. I haven't used it for over 2 years now. I had a relationship that lasted 4 months, but it's rare. Don't be too generous, then they will assume that you're a sucker. Never, ever give your personal information. Make up a story about yourself. Always meet in public places and then go to private places. Don't believe anything they say because it's 100% bs.

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6379431]Met this one up at a bar, took her back to room and she robbed me. And bounced with no shoes. Got me good.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e7df0dad-e07d-4807-93dc-7a4e9417a024[/URL][/QUOTE]So was she alone or had someone waiting for her? Weapon? Stupid stuff happens to us all, but some details would be nice.

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6379431]Met this one up at a bar, took her back to room and she robbed me. And bounced with no shoes. Got me good.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e7df0dad-e07d-4807-93dc-7a4e9417a024[/URL][/QUOTE]Things like this aren't unusual. First, I hope you're safe and nothing happened to you. Something like that also happened to me. Not with SB or SA girl, but a massage girl. The girl told me on the phone to give money to this dude and he disappeared. Cost of doing business. My advice is to let it go. Hopefully she didn't steal a lot of valuables. I always hide my valuables in the car when meeting in a hotel.

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6379431]Met this one up at a bar, took her back to room and she robbed me. And bounced with no shoes. Got me good.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e7df0dad-e07d-4807-93dc-7a4e9417a024[/URL][/QUOTE]First, I'm sorry this happened to you &, as others said, I'm glad you're okay.

Also, thanks for reporting this to the Board. I was talking hot & heavy with this one this past weekend & she was really pushy about meeting. And her pics made me really want to. But I was out of town so our schedules didn't mesh.

Wow, it could've been me.

Chatted with this one and was looking for $6 ppm and is not able to host.

A bit out of my budget.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/407db62f-8ba9-467c-93f3-e403608b2936[/URL]

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6379431]Met this one up at a bar, took her back to room and she robbed me. And bounced with no shoes. Got me good.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e7df0dad-e07d-4807-93dc-7a4e9417a024[/URL][/QUOTE]How did she rob you? Gun in her purse? It was her room and her pimp was waiting for you (and you were the one who ran off with no shoes)? She received or grabbed the cash and ran out with it (but left without her shoes)?

This was your first post ever. Details are lacking. It's at least theoretically possible that this is a revenge post because you got rejected.

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6379431]Met this one up at a bar, took her back to room and she robbed me. And bounced with no shoes. Got me good.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e7df0dad-e07d-4807-93dc-7a4e9417a024[/URL][/QUOTE]What happened? See she hasn't been on that long.

[QUOTE=NewAnonymousName;6380220]How did she rob you? Gun in her purse? It was her room and her pimp was waiting for you (and you were the one who ran off with no shoes)? She received or grabbed the cash and ran out with it (but left without her shoes)?

This was your first post ever. Details are lacking. It's at least theoretically possible that this is a revenge post because you got rejected.[/QUOTE]You bring up a good point.

[QUOTE=BobeSugar;6379751]I tried SA. First of all, it takes a lot of effort to meet someone. Most girls are just scammers. I met few and things went well, but takes a lot of time and luck. I haven't used it for over 2 years now. I had a relationship that lasted 4 months, but it's rare. Don't be too generous, then they will assume that you're a sucker. Never, ever give your personal information. Make up a story about yourself. Always meet in public places and then go to private places. Don't believe anything they say because it's 100% bs.[/QUOTE]Safety is key here guys. These girls don't need to know anything about your life it won't gain you much in the long run. I had a arrangement last more then a year and she knew very little about me just what type of car I drove. Out of that arrangement I fk her and her mom on the side. The mom v was much better. The daughter was better at sukn dik. And yes they all lie. It's part of the game.

[QUOTE=Red1992;6380081]Chatted with this one and was looking for $6 ppm and is not able to host.

A bit out of my budget.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/407db62f-8ba9-467c-93f3-e403608b2936[/URL][/QUOTE]I met her once for m&g. She was all dolled up and looking better than her pics on SA. Couldn't discuss the details because this one guy decided to sit next to us in an empty cafe. After m&g, she didn't reply at all. She probably expected me to show up with better outfit to a cafe date crap early in the morning LOL. I was prepared to go over my budget just to pound her hard.

If you can spare $6, she might be fun lay but she seems to be looking for a high $$$ ride.

Scammer, pic / vid seller.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/63d5702d-06d5-4823-98e0-c05298ffa677[/URL]

Any info on her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/8fe2467c-e574-4c3a-8acd-e9a1ef64b9b3[/URL]

[QUOTE=Airmantroy;6379790]So was she alone or had someone waiting for her? Weapon? Stupid stuff happens to us all, but some details would be nice.[/QUOTE]We had a good time. She's kissing and starts with a BJ. Asked for allowance and I gave it to her and then she was like wash up so I went into the bathroom to wash up, she must've hit my wallet then. Then I get into the bed, she now goes to the bathroom and then left the room. By the time I got dressed she was out. She took my cash, at least she left all my other shit. Def I let it go but damn I never let anything like that happen to me before.

That's the best advice I can think of. Establish goals and boundaries so you know when to say NO.

I've used SA twice in the past four years. I focus on 25-40 single moms and have mostly positive experiences. I live alone, so I'm not as concerned about anonymity as many of you. After sifting through numerous potentials, I set up a m / g with a 28 why / o single mom. We clicked and she spent her weekends at my place for the next year. She never asked for anything specific so I fixed problems, paid some overdue utility bills, fronted her the deposit to move to a better home and replaced her car after she totaled it.

The second time out I sampled half a dozen potentials and settled on a 42 why / o single mom. We've been together two and a half years. Same arrangement, fix problems. I've avoided the scams and never been threatened.

Read and read and read SA forums in cities within 100 miles of the place you plan to sugar to find out what the bowl is like in your area, especially the scams. Anything that sounds too good to be true is probably a scam. Never argue with an SB, there is too much spiteful reporting going on. Just block and move on.

[QUOTE=Loop285;6379471]Looking to transition from Eros, LC and Strippers to SA. I don't like listcrawler because a majority of chicks have bad hygiene, drug problems, pimps, catfishes, and bad attitudes. Eros isn't bad but the women are robotic a majority of the times and I sense many don't like what they do. I have a great rotation of strippers I see otc, but it can be a lot of work at times to get an outside of the club thing going.

Any do's or don't s before I start?[/QUOTE]

You didn't mention, was the thief the same girl in the photo? It takes a minute, but post a screenshot of the profile photo, especially when it's more than just a scam. These chicks change profile names like snake skins, but often use the same photos. This helps everyone track them from one alias to another.

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6379431]Met this one up at a bar, took her back to room and she robbed me. And bounced with no shoes. Got me good.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e7df0dad-e07d-4807-93dc-7a4e9417a024[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6381722]We had a good time. She's kissing and starts with a BJ. Asked for allowance and I gave it to her and then she was like wash up so I went into the bathroom to wash up, she must've hit my wallet then. Then I get into the bed, she now goes to the bathroom and then left the room. By the time I got dressed she was out. She took my cash, at least she left all my other shit. Def I let it go but damn I never let anything like that happen to me before.[/QUOTE]That's lucky that she didn't just grab the whole wallet. The grab and go while you're in the bathroom move happens a lot in Vegas with casino girls. Your post is a good reminder to all of us to never leave your wallet unattended around a SB, especially those of you with privacy concerns. Nothing good can come from a thief having your ID.

[QUOTE=Hal1957;6381837]You didn't mention, was the thief the same girl in the photo? It takes a minute, but post a screenshot of the profile photo, especially when it's more than just a scam. These chicks change profile names like snake skins, but often use the same photos. This helps everyone track them from one alias to another.[/QUOTE]Damn dude, this girl is hot. If someone seems too good to be true, then she probably is.

Most important thing is that you're healthy and safe. I always hide my wallet under the mattress or just put it in my car. You can never trust these girls. As someone else mentioned, casino girls in Vegas use this trick. I guess she is one of them because this girl looks like a pro. She looks like a dancer from cheetah. We live and learn from our mistakes.

[QUOTE=VSlayer;6381722]We had a good time. She's kissing and starts with a BJ. Asked for allowance and I gave it to her and then she was like wash up so I went into the bathroom to wash up, she must've hit my wallet then. Then I get into the bed, she now goes to the bathroom and then left the room. By the time I got dressed she was out. She took my cash, at least she left all my other shit. Def I let it go but damn I never let anything like that happen to me before.[/QUOTE]Are you saying she went to the bathroom in the room then left the room? Or are you saying she went to the bathroom and then left the room when in the bathroom?

[QUOTE=NewAnonymousName;6382207]That's lucky that she didn't just grab the whole wallet. The grab and go while you're in the bathroom move happens a lot in Vegas with casino girls. Your post is a good reminder to all of us to never leave your wallet unattended around a SB, especially those of you with privacy concerns. Nothing good can come from a thief having your ID.[/QUOTE]There are always three sides to a story, his side, her side and some story in between. For me to believe his story, I need more details. For instance did the bathroom have an opening to the outside? Highly unusual, if it did. His story just does not add up and being his first post, I'm highly suspicious.

[QUOTE=BumbaCloth;6381479]Any info on her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/8fe2467c-e574-4c3a-8acd-e9a1ef64b9b3[/URL][/QUOTE]See Post #12120.

If money is brought up before we get naked, I'm out. That's just a prostitute. It's a line I won't cross. The lay will suck, she'll probably require covered parking, all of which are deal breakers if I'm paying money. I don't mind pulling out but I would prefer not even doing that anymore being 47. I don't care anymore, someday I won't be able to even get it up so I want the full experience. Just 5 years ago I'd called myself crazy. Not anymore. The clock is ticking.

[QUOTE=Red1992;6380081]Chatted with this one and was looking for $6 ppm and is not able to host.

A bit out of my budget.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/407db62f-8ba9-467c-93f3-e403608b2936[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BobeSugar;6379751]I tried SA. First of all, it takes a lot of effort to meet someone. Most girls are just scammers. I met few and things went well, but takes a lot of time and luck. I haven't used it for over 2 years now. I had a relationship that lasted 4 months, but it's rare. Don't be too generous, then they will assume that you're a sucker. Never, ever give your personal information. Make up a story about yourself. Always meet in public places and then go to private places. Don't believe anything they say because it's 100% bs.[/QUOTE]+1. I've done some rough math overall and here's what I've come up with.

5 girls messaged = 1 reply.

10 replies = 1 phone number.

10 phone numbers = 1 M&G.

3 M&Gs = 1 Fvck.

YMMV.

And don't message any girls that aren't local and who don't post UNFILTERED full body pictures. Beware of girls who post filtered pics. They are doing it to hide something. You must be efficient with your time here.

Finally don't simp. The hotter the girl the less compliments you should give her. Game matters. It's human nature to want someone who challenges you.

Louis, You're saying you get 1 fuck out of every 1500 women you message? This can't be right.

[QUOTE=LouisHernandez;6383356]+1. I've done some rough math overall and here's what I've come up with.

5 girls messaged = 1 reply.

10 replies = 1 phone number.

10 phone numbers = 1 M&G.

3 M&Gs = 1 Fvck.

YMMV.

And don't message any girls that aren't local and who don't post UNFILTERED full body pictures. Beware of girls who post filtered pics. They are doing it to hide something. You must be efficient with your time here.

Finally don't simp. The hotter the girl the less compliments you should give her. Game matters. It's human nature to want someone who challenges you.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CuriousVaMan;6383380]Louis, You're saying you get 1 fuck out of every 1500 women you message? This can't be right.[/QUOTE]Maybe for every 5 messaging convos I get 1 phone number. It's definitely 10 phone numbers or MORE that convert to 1 M&G.

The standard conversion of phone number to M&G is 5-10% and that is for certain. Lately 2-3 M&Gs = a Fvck. It's bad. 5 years ago, it was a whole different game. I long since gave up on SA b / c of these metrics. There are better sites out there for sugaring, but they all are tough.

SA is a total dead POS. It was the bomb 5 years ago, now it's just another time wasting scam site. The girls are horrible on there too.

[QUOTE=LouisHernandez;6383425]Maybe for every 5 messaging convos I get 1 phone number. It's definitely 10 phone numbers or MORE that convert to 1 M&G.

The standard conversion of phone number to M&G is 5-10% and that is for certain. Lately 2-3 M&Gs = a Fvck. It's bad. 5 years ago, it was a whole different game. I long since gave up on SA b / c of these metrics. There are better sites out there for sugaring, but they all are tough.

SA is a total dead POS. It was the bomb 5 years ago, now it's just another time wasting scam site. The girls are horrible on there too.[/QUOTE]On a whim, I re-upped my premium on Monday. I had several old stale messages that were of no use as they cycled thru. Since Monday I have sent 11 messages, gotten 9 replies and 7 numbers to text. 1 had GPS and is a semi-pro, 1 has been reviewed here a while back and scheduling with her was simple as 2 texts. 2 others have never been mentioned and M&G are set with both next week.

Something about the type of girl you are contacting or your initial approach is.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/216c2e27-7ff7-43fe-99c5-5b7b485d63b5[/URL]

These girls still have serious GPS. They all throw out $600 to meet. None of them can host, and half of them say they don't have a car and need me to Uber them on top of that. It's gone down hill for sure. I just cancelled my membership again. Active for 2 months this go around and dozens of numbers, but not a single actual meet because these girls all think they're worth $600-1 k.

I agree, years ago it was a night and day difference. Two years ago I had a rotation of girls from there I'd see. Now, nothing. My approach hasn't changed, these girls have.

Back in the game again after being out for a while. Summer xx reached out to me and we started a convo. Had to go into a meeting and figured I would check here to see if anyone has had any experience with this good looking blonde.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/01005f76-773d-48cb-9b2d-479aace33ba3[/URL]

Dang, she told me 1 k ppm. I should have jumped on that price while I had it LOL.

[QUOTE=Apollo007;6383719][URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/216c2e27-7ff7-43fe-99c5-5b7b485d63b5[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Airmantroy;6383649]On a whim, I re-upped my premium on Monday. I had several old stale messages that were of no use as they cycled thru. Since Monday I have sent 11 messages, gotten 9 replies and 7 numbers to text. 1 had GPS and is a semi-pro, 1 has been reviewed here a while back and scheduling with her was simple as 2 texts. 2 others have never been mentioned and M&G are set with both next week.

Something about the type of girl you are contacting or your initial approach is.[/QUOTE]It's also the city I live in. Denver that could be very different. But my approach has been the same as it's always been, filter GPS, filter non local, etc. It's just not the same site. I've had better luck recently on some other sites. I'll never get on seeking again. It's the ******* of sugar sites now IMHO. I'm not even sure it's considered a "sugar" site anymore and that's the problem.

Oh and the fake profiles are too much to bear. Seeking won't enact a more rigorous user verification system like mandating users validate a US Mobile phone to get in (not a voip number either). I got sick and tired of trying to determine which profiles were real and which were fake. And most seem to be fake / scammers.

Good luck to you though. It's tough everywhere.

[QUOTE=MacLuvin;6383744]These girls still have serious GPS. They all throw out $600 to meet. None of them can host, and half of them say they don't have a car and need me to Uber them on top of that. It's gone down hill for sure. I just cancelled my membership again. Active for 2 months this go around and dozens of numbers, but not a single actual meet because these girls all think they're worth $600-1 k.

I agree, years ago it was a night and day difference. Two years ago I had a rotation of girls from there I'd see. Now, nothing. My approach hasn't changed, these girls have.[/QUOTE]With the economy thankfully turning back to capitalism more than socialism, these women should start becoming more reasonable. So the sugar economy should begin to improve to our advantage as the economy continues to decline. Get off [URL]seeking.com[/URL] . There are other sites with better approaches that I can already vouch that work much better. The girls are higher quality, friendlier, and less GPS. Sure you still deal with the standard flake rates, but the numbers are getting more in our favor. Make sure you have some good profile pics and stay in shape and stay within about 20 years of your age success can be had for $200 a pop BBFS. Game also matters, just don't simp.

Louis would you mind sharing some of the other sites you are talking about. I usually avoid other sites simply because I don't investigate well enough to see if they are legit and worth the effort. Thanks in advance.

SD.

[QUOTE=LouisHernandez;6384015]With the economy thankfully turning back to capitalism more than socialism, these women should start becoming more reasonable. So the sugar economy should begin to improve to our advantage as the economy continues to decline. Get off [URL]seeking.com[/URL] . There are other sites with better approaches that I can already vouch that work much better. The girls are higher quality, friendlier, and less GPS. Sure you still deal with the standard flake rates, but the numbers are getting more in our favor. Make sure you have some good profile pics and stay in shape and stay within about 20 years of your age success can be had for $200 a pop BBFS. Game also matters, just don't simp.[/QUOTE]

This one has been discussed lately. I met her around Christmas. She is a very sweet girl. As everyone has mentioned she is very talkative. That can be good or bad depending on what you like. Didn't bother me. She stays near the Beltline in a studio apartment. She has a little dog. Dog was not much of a bother. I meet her at her place. We walked to a local bar and got a drink to break the ice. Then we went to the liquor store near by. Grabbed some alcohol and walked back to her place. Here we continued to drink and talk about everything under the sun. She tells me she is very comfortable with me. Even offered to let me spend the night. After about an hour she says it's time for the fun stuff. Tells me to get comfortable. I get undressed and get on the bed. She turns on some music, undresses and joins me. We start making out. Then I start kissing her, working my way to daty. Simultaneously she stops me and I smell an odor. She tells me No I am on my cycle. But we can still fuck. I am immediately turned off. I put back on my clothes. We just drink and chill for another hour or two. She keeps apologizing. Still offers me to stay the night. I decline and leave. I was never going to see her again, but I have been seeing positive feedback on her lately. I will chalk it up to bad timing. Anyway donation was 250 no time limit.

Messaged her back and forth a few months ago. She wanted 250 ppm. I can't remember why we never hooked up. Seemed legit. Not sure if it was scheduling or something else.

I messaged back and forth with Cheeky a few months ago. If I am not mistaken, she told me she was a teacher and has kids. She is looking for extra dough and a FWB type of situation. Of course she has to schedule around her kids. I think it is a shared rotating custody situation if I remember correctly. Easy communication, seemed sweet. We scheduled a meet and fu#k at her place. We agreed on an odd donation of 220 ppm. I didn't realize Fitzgerald was 3 hours away from me, which is where she is located. I couldn't chance driving that far to be catfished or given the run around. Not saying that was her intentions. I just couldn't take that chance. Maybe one of you studs that stay closer can give her a try and report back. Then I might take the drive.

[QUOTE=LouisHernandez;6383356]+1. I've done some rough math overall and here's what I've come up with.

5 girls messaged = 1 reply.

10 replies = 1 phone number.

10 phone numbers = 1 M&G.

3 M&Gs = 1 Fvck.

YMMV.

And don't message any girls that aren't local and who don't post UNFILTERED full body pictures. Beware of girls who post filtered pics. They are doing it to hide something. You must be efficient with your time here.

Finally don't simp. The hotter the girl the less compliments you should give her. Game matters. It's human nature to want someone who challenges you.[/QUOTE]Something wrong here. I find maybe one out of 50 won't give me their number right away to get off the site and into text. The ones that won't give me their number (or text me which is same) after 5-10 message exchanges, particularly if I explain why I don't discuss details on websites is probably 1 in 500.

Are you putting really specific things, or limitations in your profile? I've found that usually only filters the pool in ways you don't want. It's better to market yourself with good but accurate photos, words that attract but remain open to cast a wide net, then filter from there. Lots of my best ones texted me before I ever even saw their profile.

[QUOTE=CatchNGo;6384233]This one has been discussed lately. I met her around Christmas. She is a very sweet girl. As everyone has mentioned she is very talkative. That can be good or bad depending on what you like. Didn't bother me. She stays near the Beltline in a studio apartment. She has a little dog. Dog was not much of a bother. I meet her at her place. We walked to a local bar and got a drink to break the ice. Then we went to the liquor store near by. Grabbed some alcohol and walked back to her place. Here we continued to drink and talk about everything under the sun. She tells me she is very comfortable with me. Even offered to let me spend the night. After about an hour she says it's time for the fun stuff. Tells me to get comfortable. I get undressed and get on the bed. She turns on some music, undresses and joins me. We start making out. Then I start kissing her, working my way to daty. Simultaneously she stops me and I smell an odor. She tells me No I am on my cycle. But we can still fuck. I am immediately turned off. I put back on my clothes. We just drink and chill for another hour or two. She keeps apologizing. Still offers me to stay the night. I decline and leave. I was never going to see her again, but I have been seeing positive feedback on her lately. I will chalk it up to bad timing. Anyway donation was 250 no time limit.[/QUOTE]Are you saying that the odor was from her cycle? Some of these chicks always have a bad odor, and require several showers to get the BV stink off of the family jewels. An IUD also increases the chances of a bad odor, it seems. Did she not offer to get you off one way or another, either with hand or bbj??

[QUOTE=CatchNGo;6384233]This one has been discussed lately. I met her around Christmas. She is a very sweet girl. As everyone has mentioned she is very talkative. That can be good or bad depending on what you like. Didn't bother me. She stays near the Beltline in a studio apartment. She has a little dog. Dog was not much of a bother. I meet her at her place. We walked to a local bar and got a drink to break the ice. Then we went to the liquor store near by. Grabbed some alcohol and walked back to her place. Here we continued to drink and talk about everything under the sun. She tells me she is very comfortable with me. Even offered to let me spend the night. After about an hour she says it's time for the fun stuff. Tells me to get comfortable. I get undressed and get on the bed. She turns on some music, undresses and joins me. We start making out. Then I start kissing her, working my way to daty. Simultaneously she stops me and I smell an odor. She tells me No I am on my cycle. But we can still fuck. I am immediately turned off. I put back on my clothes. We just drink and chill for another hour or two. She keeps apologizing. Still offers me to stay the night. I decline and leave. I was never going to see her again, but I have been seeing positive feedback on her lately. I will chalk it up to bad timing. Anyway donation was 250 no time limit.[/QUOTE]That sucks beyond sucks. No amount of dick pills will work with the rotten fish smell. What is wrong with these women. I've had that happen a few times and tried my best to forget the experience.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;6384468]Something wrong here. I find maybe one out of 50 won't give me their number right away to get off the site and into text. The ones that won't give me their number (or text me which is same) after 5-10 message exchanges, particularly if I explain why I don't discuss details on websites is probably 1 in 500.

Are you putting really specific things, or limitations in your profile? I've found that usually only filters the pool in ways you don't want. It's better to market yourself with good but accurate photos, words that attract but remain open to cast a wide net, then filter from there. Lots of my best ones texted me before I ever even saw their profile.[/QUOTE]I had a few beers last night so let me correct my numbers.

Recent [URL]seeking.com[/URL] experience (within the past 6 months).

4 messages = 1 reply.

5 replies = 1 phone number.

10 phones numbers = 1 M&G.

2 M&Gs = 1 closed deal.

Those are rough estimates but you get the picture.