Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 4 History of BP
[URL]https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf[/URL]
BackPage grew out of an alternative newspaper, Phoenix New Times, which frequently featured ads for prostitution. By 2000 the rise of the internet and Craigslist with free classified advertising, began to cut into PNT's revenues since they depended on classified advertising.
So BackPage was created as an alternative to CL. In January 2006 BP supplied only 1% of ad revenues. [color=red]By 2008, BackPage was generating $5 million (MM) in annual profit. 2009 it increased to $10 MM profit.[/color]
In 2010 Craigslist shutdown its Adult Services sections due to illegal services. BP anticipated a deluge of adult content advertising. [B]Annual profits in 2010 were $26 MM, $52 MM in 2011 and $78 MM in 2012. Profits grew to $112 MM in 2013 and over $134 MM in 2014.[/B].
In 2015, the founders LACEY and LARKIN sold their ownership interest for $600 MM in what looks like a shell game of companies to hide true ownership. The purchasers borrowed most of the money used to buy BP.
As early as 2008, BP was aware that a majority of the adult ads involved prostitution, yet made a financial decision to continue. They didn't want to be in an uncompetitive position relative to CL.
In response to pressure, BP started to moderate and clean up adverts- removing sex act pictures and coded terms for prostitution.
In 2010, CF testified in a criminal trial of a pimp who used the email address "Youngpimpin86" in a BP ad. The Indictment states, "This episode provided notice to Backpage that it was implausible to pretend such ads were merely offering lawful escort services. ".
A second time in 2010 CF of BP testified in court in the criminal trial of a pimp who used BP adverts.
Then a series of emails periodically when BP gave guidance to its moderators on stripping out offensive pictures and text, but kept the advertisement. But it looks like guidance wavered and changed. Remember, in 2010 profits jumped from $10 MM (2009) to $26 MM (2010) headed for $52 MM in 2011.
But what comes next appears to this writer to be egregious.
Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 5 - Where BP went off the rails
[URL]https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf[/URL]
[I]Sorry if this section is long and a bit tedious, just wanted to lay out the LONG history where BP could have acted.[/I]
So as early as Nov 2010, BP was aware that adverts used the term "Lolita" in them and that referred to under-aged girls. BP suggestion was that this term could be stripped out of the ads and the ad posted anyway, not refusing to post ad or reporting it.
Then later in Nov 2010, the [B]National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) [/B] had a conference call with BP where BP was told that many of the ads on BP featured children.
In January 2011, BP met with a rep from NCMEC and BP told them, "adult prostitution is none of your business. " Again in March 2011 BP met with NCMEC.
In July 2011 BP discussed internally the possibility of using age-verification software. CF acknowledged the software could be beneficial [I] (This might be our solution) but recommended against its wholesale adoption because it would cost 79 to 99 cents per query and would thus cut into Backpagess profits.[/I]
August 2011 the mayor of Seattle wrote that LE had identified that an alarming number of juveniles were advertised on BP and recommended BP require age verification for "escorts. " BP declined to adopt.
In October 2011, BP had discussions about the under age issue. [I] With respect to one particular proposal, C.F. acknowledged it was a good one but recommended against adopting it because Backpage would not derive any public relations benefit from doing so: [b][color=purple]This is a good idea but it is not visible to AGs (state attorneys general) so it has little PR value. It is low priority[/color][/b][/I].
April 2012, BP was informed that one escort depicted on the site was only 17 years old. The girl's full name, both year were provided and it was noted the 17 yo was attempting to recruit the complaining party's 15 yo daughter. BP advised staff to refuse to remove the ad because [I][color=red]shes isn't claiming her own daughter is in the ad[/color][/I].
Does not appear to this writer that the 17 yo's advert was reported to LE or anything further was done.
November 2012 AZ State Univ researcher published a study on Phoenix BP adverts showing many depicted juvenile trafficking. Researcher met with BP to propose various mechanisms for reducing or eliminating the prostitution of children. BP declined to adopt proposals.
June 2013, NCMEC sent a letter to BP recommending specific security measures to prevent trafficking of children. [b]BP declined to follow any of these recommendations.[/b]
Are you exhausted yet? BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!
January 2017 A Senate subcommittee issued a report "[URL]Backpage.com[/URL]'s Knowing Facilitation of Online Sex Trafficking" [I]Backpage has maintained a practice of altering ads before publication by deleting words, phrases and images indicative of the criminality, including child sex trafficking[/I] In response, BP shut down the adult section of its website but allowed the traffic to migrate to other sections.
[B][color=orange]So it appears as though numerous sources came to BP, hat in hand with concerns over under aged girls. Not only did they provide proof, but they offered to help BP by providing tangible things BP could do to to help with the issue. It appears that in most cases BPs response was to strip offending text or pictures from ads but continuing to post them. So BP had many opportunities to do the right thing when it came to trafficking and to the under aged issue but failed to act.[/color][/B]
I mean REALLY? That many people trying to work with you, not to shut down your business, but modify it a bit so the worst stuff gets removed / reported and you thumb your nose at them?
It is no surprise to me that after years of effort to "work with" BP, that the response was an act of Congress and a new over-reaching public law. IMHO BP actions were irresponsible and in doing so it scr*wed over the entire industry!
Why are there Delaware Douchebags?
[QUOTE=Seeker5901;3804006]So I try to give back to the community whenever I can. Next thing I know a bunch of people with zero posts pm me left, right, and center. One even had the balls to attach a read reciept! Sheesh!
Be active and contributing before you ask.[/QUOTE]You make a good point and one I hear often from other Big contributors around here. Often the emails leave me shaking my head. There are several types:
1. The dude who has not contributed anything, has no posts or has only "give me" posts who asks for digits. This dude gets incensed when he doesn't get what he wants for just asking. I don't know if this is a generational thing or an internet thing? I. e. Those who grew up not learning anything, just asking whatever they needed?
2. Those with an ego who get their knickers in a twist easily when the reply isn't what they want. Or feel slighted at the littlest of things.
3. Those that are just plain azzh*les.
A few pointers to others who want to avoid looking like the above.
A. [b]READ THE FREAKING THREADS![/b] When I first started many moons ago, I read EVERY post in Delaware! EVERYONE. Shoot it took a few months, but the "education" was invaluable! Sure some of it was dated as "the Office" was no longer around, but it was fruitful to see that discussion for any number of reasons. I think most guys post to share and help others, rather than an ego trip of "hey, look at what I bagged!
B. [b]Try to build some cred (credibility)![/b] Post counts don't means squat. I have seen guys sign up one day and get Sr. Status the next. They run all over the general discussion boards and post profound stuff like, "good post"! Anyone who does that is gaming the system and gets a black mark in my book. Look, I initially built cred here by reading the threads and asking technique questions. That showed I was interested and trying. Shoot I even posted once about seeing a girl on the pay phone at Memorial & Rte9 - but still that showed I was in the game and trying. There have been a few posters over the years that showed up asked technique questions and became good compatriots! You don't have to post 3 reports every week, but demonstrating you are in the game and being helpful goes a long way. Building cred is a good objective. It opens the doors to those with contacts.
C. [b]Try to keep your ego in check,[/b] [I](OMFG! Did he just say that??? Pot-Kettle-Black! LOL!)[/I] if things don't initially go your way. Give some slack to others who have contributed and are willing to share. After all they maybe bombarded with PMs from the three types above. I mean even if you are a 20-year veteran to the stroll, you still need to demonstrate that to build cred, or at least show some respect to the locals. Do you go to a buddy's house, pizz all over his front porch and then get excited when he objects? Look, in the long run this is only wh*remongering! What is to be gained by becoming "the big dog" amongst a bunch of mongers? Lighten up, have fun.
D. [b]If you want something, have something to give.[/b] Look, I have YEARS of experience and knowledge in this game. I earned every inch of it, some through "the school of hard knocks", some by certain sacrifices, some by a lot of time & energy. As they say, Knowledge is power. So why should I give away all of that for free and get nothing out of it? What have you got to offer me in return? I mean sheet, haven't I posted enough tips, tricks and info to have built up a few Karma points? So if you want something from another poster, isn't it fair to have something to share in return?
This can be a wonderful place, with lots of info and friends. But each dude needs to do his part, share as much as they take or even share a bit more. If everyone does that then everyone wins. Otherwise we devolve into the three types above.
Stay safe,
[I] - Delaware's Chief Douchebag!
and resident Azzh*le!!!![/I]
State of DE Mongering. As Seen from This Chair!
So DE Mongering is still quite active but a few observations.
[B]Streets Still Alive[/B]
While the streets are still alive, it has gotten a bit more challenging. 1) Lots of girls are locked up or in rehab. The focus on opioids has come to DE and treatment is available. Also the clinic through Connections is offering vouchers for apartments to girls and that is getting them off of the streets. 2) LE cleaned up MDA for a while and it was the dregs. Lots of LE presence drove girls away and the constant presence of parked or roaming LE certainly made this monger nervous. Nice to see a report or two that some girls are being found there. Did see a spinner near the Cricket store on Friday. 3) The Box is the box- still lots of LE presence, seem to have a permanent residence at Wash & 7th as to keep the independent business men at bay. But there is always a black girl around and occasionally others. 4) uLA was THE hunting ground, but in the last month or so it seems to have gotten LE attention. Saw obvious LE presence with lights a couple of mornings recently and a girl reports that a body was found at KS or 711. So looks like LE is hanging out "protecting" those wandering to the clinic. Note that LE includes several UCLE vehicles: Big Black SUV with brush guard and a sliver / grey sedan, Chevy? (just saw Sat night). So a couple of passes before any obvious pick ups. Girls still out there: Stacy, Always-Preggers-Ashley w / BF (who I have seen falling down stoned at uLA & Union a couple of times), Lucky, Jenn, Chrissy (former Mayoress of MDA), Milfsalot's Kristina, Jaci with the pink hair, Nola, Sarah (long black hair, exotic look), fat-disgusting-GPS-Amy and a few others I can't remember. So there are a few out there still, just takes some hunting and some caution.
[B]SESTA killed BP - guys got desperate![/B]
So about a year ago SESTA shutdown the infamous BP. Sure looks like guys panicked! While you use to be able to get on BP for 100/ hr now girls are asking 200! WTF! The quality level of girls hasn't gotten any better, nor their looks! I still only give 50-60 for a girl I met on line and who cares what amount of time it is, I get mine. But clearly dudes are paying these high prices! Sigh. Actually these is a girl, Kelsey, aka Kelly Madison who spent some time last year "organizing" the local talent. Created some super secret website where they shared info on dates: who was dangerous, rip-off, violent and who knows what else? She got them set as to what prices should be and as things go, copy-cats saw the increased amounts these girls were asking so they asked for the same rate! Sigh. Oh well, go ahead and pay $80 for a ss with a drugged out girl, one in one of the sleazy notels or a hood rat! I never pay what amounts to $200/ hour unless the girl has a website. Shoot hit the AMPs for 160! Use to be you could get hillbilly tale for 200/ hr from WHFT, but.
[B]Dudes Don't Seem to Be Reading & Following the Rules![/B]
Read a thread here about the closure of WHFT! That didn't surprise me at all, since the dude was pretty indiscreet and "out there!" In the light of SESTA, one would think dudes in the hobby would reconsider things! After all this website moved offshore and made other changes. But reports from girls I got were that a girl HAD to bang the proprietor to get a job there, also saw video of him urinating on a girl, so who knows if one girl or two were not free to work when they wanted and thus turned on him as 'trafficking?" BUT WHAT THE HECK ARE THESE DUDES WHO ARE GETTING PHONE CALLS FROM LE? I just do not understand this, how did they get found if they "followed the rules?" Seems like the perfect example for having a burner phone and GV layered on to of that? Normally solicitation charges being misdemeanors do not warrant the expenditure or effort involved in getting warrants to get info from GV & burner company. But I guess if the Feds are involved then resources are available? But still? If a burner is set up right how would that lead back to the monger? So yeah, mongers called by LE should consult a good criminal attorney and hope they can discretely talk, without SO finding out. Also, IF I were one who had frequented WHFT, NOW would be a good time to do what one is suppose to do when threatened. DUMP the burner phone & GV number and start all over! My phone would be in pieces in the middle of the DE river! So word to the wise: becarefull about becoming a "regular" at an "agency!" Would it make sense to switch burners every 6-months?
Also saw a few dudes lament about getting ripped of by girls when they paid upfront! Sigh. Isn't THAT one of the "rules?" I had that happen to me recently. Girl wanted up front money. I refused. She got snippy about it so I got dressed and headed for the door. When she could tell she wasn't getting anything and her time was wasted, she relented. But that usually clouds her attitude and the date, so best to keep walking. Sometimes with a scoop, I mention it upfront as part of the negotiation. A lot easier to turn 180 and drop them off than drama somewhere.
[B]Digits & Friends are a key![/B]
Was just tallying up the number or girls I have dated in the last year that come from "referrals!" You know, you find a decent girt you have fun with and see them from time to time. The smart ones that are worth dating aren't jealous and know dudes need variety. As long as they get an occasional date they are happy to share. So one girl gave me G2 and G2 gave me G3-10! Got a couple of others from those girls. The gift that keeps on giving! LOL So it is safer than scooping as the girl is known and she knows about you too. Had a 4 month affair with a girl who was preggers. A referral from G2! Oh and there are others probably another half dozen that have referred others. I guess if one is shy to ask, have the girl set up doubles and then get the doubles partner number during the date! One girl hosted dates at her friend's place and eventually I tapped the friend! Oh, and because the first girl in the chain was a street scoop. Street rates apply! LOL! So I picked up UTR girls and have dates with them for street rates! THAT sure beats the over prices CXG girls, and dates are usually better!
[B]Rates go with where you find them & often are negotiable[/B]
There is a girl out on uLA who has GPS. Asks for 80-100 for an indoor date. She pulled that cr at p on me and promptly got dropped off! I use to be scared to say anything when a girl did that, but now I just kindly laugh at them and say, 'No, street rates are 30-40. " That lets them know I know what I am talking about and most of them come back with OK, 40! Sometimes if a girl is cute of seems to have something personality wise, I might offer an additional 10 as a performance bonus. That seems to motivate a better date! But the online girls, due to the "training" of Kelsey, or the "monkey see, monkey do" stuff can be a bit tougher. I have a menu I seek and that often weeds out girls right & left. So don't be surprised if you strike out with a lot of them. Many fish in the sea! Don't fixate on one girl and let that fixation let the little head drive you into paying too much! Learn how to negotiate. I think it makes sense to use an approach like, "Would [U]you[/U] be able to take XX for your time?" Rather than, I got 40 or best "I" can do is 50. Just seems a better approach IMHO.
[B]Guide to Searching CXG[/B]
CXG has become the same level as the old BP. About 70% of adverts are by AMPs. I switch to gallery view. Then after some time looking at pics, got a feeling for which ones were the AMPs, so easliy skipped. Usually in gallery view the AMPs have their address show up on the bottom of the pic. THEN I look at the same location on the pics and look for ones that just say "Delaware!" Hover the pointer over a picture and the phone number, if there is one, shows up above the picture. So not 100%, but usually 95% of the time the pics that have Delaware as a location are fake adverts. I also avoid the ones with no phone number as the only contact method is via email. They want you to PM them, with your email to collect your address to sell to spammers, or of course get you to "sign up" somewhere to get the girls number. So, I can scan the entire page of CXG adverts in about 2-minutes tops! Then what is left is usually a lot of hood rats and white trash, fwiw. But hey, visuals, reading adverts, etc is a skill that come with time. Any girl who asks how much I got, or who wants to know if I am coming now, is all about the money and not the kind of date I am looking for. Oh and I want to call out one girl in particular. Goes by Honeybunny or something similar on CXG. This is no "girl" rather she is another girl's Mom and her real name is Joyce. She is one of the most disgusting individuals I have ever encountered while doing this hobby. I would not stick your d*ck in her, even with 3 condoms on it! She has GPS, she treats others like garbage, even her own daughters, she has drug dealers living with her, her place is a mess and she'll play bareback with anyone who asks. So if you want to head to her place at 8th & Washington. Go head. One thing to note, her daughter, who IS a sweet girl lives in the same building, but NOT the same apartment! So if you head to that address, make sure you are seeing the right girl and not Joyce! Guess now that I panned Joyce a bunch of dudes will race out to pay her GPS prices and see her! LOL!
That's all folks! Back underground! Good luck! Happy Mongering!
Cameras were in the WHFT dating rooms!
[QUOTE=Shampoo;4249580]In this one case I'm not sure a burner would have helped. They had a camera mounted at the front and back of the place and were matching tags to people. So maybe a call would be coming to the house instead of the cell? That document with info regarding shutting down whft sure did open my eyes. Tracking devices on cars, pole cameras, false stories to get info from the hotel staff (oh, we're investigating a robbery. Can we see your records to see who stayed here) I'd love to post it but not sure if I'm allowed since it has his name in it. Not sure if it's still available on courtlistener.
X is an ass though, and I wish we all had thought better about going there. Going to be a long few months waiting to get the call. I'd love to hear the results of anyone who actually did speak with LE. Did they arrest you? Are you OK? Are they done with you? Maybe their lawyers advised them not to post anymore.
I still don't see how they could arrest you though. They actually followed one guy after he left and pulled him over. He told LE he was just getting a massage. They traced another tag to a rental agency. [b]Anyway. I think if they didn't have cameras in the room like Florida you should be good.[/b] Even still I don't think they can do anything since that case is going down the sitter. Plus MD is a 2 consent state so even if x was recording (which that mf probably was) I don't think it's admissible. Maybe I've just been trying to convince myself ill be ok. Definitely the biggest mistake I've ever made.
X will answer the charges in early May so hopefully it will be quick and over. I kind of keep hoping he'll get run over or something. LOL.
What I find really odd is that this hasn't hit the news at all. Maybe it won't? .[/QUOTE]Ah, but there is the rub! From what I understand, at one point (early on?), there was a laptop in the room where the date happened, with an operating web cam, such that X could monitor the date and keep the girls safe. At least that is what I heard or was discussed here. In fact, I put up a lengthy post on WHFT which mentioned the recording in the room and best I recall no one refuted such.
Now that said, IF one is one of the dudes "caught on film" playing with one of X's girls, not to worry. Not sure how that video can translate to charges since X collected the money up front and I doubt there was a discussion of sex acts for money with him. Certainly there should have been no reason to talk "acts" for money with the girl even if the date is recorded. Er, that is unless one offered up the extra $50 for BBFS and that was discussed and recorded? Anyway, looks like the best one could get charged with is solicitation, which in DE is a misdemeanor. Sure, not something one wants on their record, but a low level crime. Suspect that mongers could get immunity if they flip on X. But hey, who knows?
My evaluation was that the whole set up was not good and thus something to be avoided. But hey, from what I remember from the boards on the WHFT site, there were plenty of guys who bought into the game there.
But the dude who got followed and stopped and told LE that he was just getting a massage was one sharp cookie! LE is trained to get you to incriminate your self, so this monger did exactly the right thing! [i]{Normal "human reaction" is to come clean when one gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar! Which of course is giving up one's 5th Amend. rights!}[/i]
Another question that comes to mind is- how long was LE monitoring the activities; I. E. Recording the comings and goings on camera? Sounds like, perhaps it was a more recent event, post SESTA? If those tapes go back to Day One of his operation, that is another story entirely!
Some of the info you posted about this case is not something I have seen. [I]{then again perhaps I didn't read closely or do enough digging}[/I] Can you PM me links to where you got that info?
Oh well.
10 photos
How Do You Manage Your Dating?
As I mentioned recently, networking is a good way to expand one's dating experiences. To wit, see the attached pics which show a month of activity for a dude and how / where found as well as rates. Are you networking? Overpaying?
Letters indicate where found: S= street, C= online & are= referral.
Rates for time & companionship is shown as a number. Where multiple numbers are listed, that shows rates for all days (I. E. Subsequent visits are 2nd, 3rd numbers).
Tired of teaching, probably will retire. Get on the GF2 W track.
Hobby May Look Easy, But Good Hobbying is Far From Easy
[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;4332817]
Tired of teaching, probably will retire. Get on the GF2 W track.[/QUOTE][I]not calling out anyone in particular or at all, just venting frustrations and being the head d-bag here, with the hope it in someway it helps[/I]
Had a bit of hiatus and when I looked back at threads it appears as though few are reading the forums and learning from them. Sigh.
[B] 1. [/B]That WHFT debacle is a good example. Sure looks like dudes thought that if it was on the net, it must be ok and didn't bother to think. Now, sure looks like every dude who dated one of the WHFT girls has a video recrding of their first date in the hands of LE. Those who dated after a certain point have video footage of their car with license plate and them entering the known motel room also in LE hands! Sure looks like that is how LE "found" guys and were able to contact them at their home numbers. Only one monger reported to me that he had the foresight to park somewhere off the motel property and walk over to the room! WTF! One dude out of how many was "thinking" or applied "the rules?" SMH. At times there were LE physically present observing the comings & goings. Isn't recon one of 'the rules?" Did these dudes ignore the rules? Weren't observant enough to see the stakeout? Of just plain unaware of the rules?
My point (frustration?) is: does anyone think? Following FOSTA / SESTA passage, it was sure clear that open operations like that would get attention. Next, there was ample discussion on the threads about the video taping of dates. Shoot so much so that it was regurgitated in the threads repeatedly. Yet apparently few heeded those warnings. My experience is that one benefits from developing a 'spidey sense' in this hobby for any number of reasons. I found that ignoring that or just not developing the spidey senses is when trouble will find you! Most of the times I paid "tuition" in the school of dating it was early on, as I was learning. A lot of education came free through these threads and for that I have paid back or paid forward. But alas, if no one is paying attention? Additionally I have to remind myself periodically to remember that one should always be learning in the hobby. A few times when I thought I knew it all was when the streets / hobby taught me a lesson or two.
[B]2. [/B]Saw a post by a newbie who wanted to know where the strolls were located. OK, newbie needs to read the freaking threads! I get that and get that there is a new crop of hobbyists that want instant gratification and see no value in history. Those dudes will learn the hard way as they are lead around by the little head. That is why stings keep working. But what was further dismaying was that those that responded to the newbie, didn't direct him to the resources this site provides! So one wonders IF those Sr's were aware of the resources?
Here is the place where a couple of local (philly area) dudes created a repository for stroll maps all over the the country. Seems like these dudes RTFT in DE and scooped up our maps!
Home >Forum >Special Interests >Amateurs >SW Stroll Maps.
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?6639-SW-Stroll-Maps[/URL]
For the "need to be spoon fed" types go to post 41 where I reposted the Overview Map and the individual stroll maps in North DE!
Also if one had read the freaking SW thread in Wilm section, they would have found these pictures showing the strolls. So what is it? Too hard to read, study & learn? Too hard to learn to be safe?
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251921&d=1370013606[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=225326&d=1358598961[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=411729&d=1459056984[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251915&d=1370012875[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251914&d=1370012846[/URL]
So why is it that there is any question about 'where are the strolls" or guys pointing other guys to discussions and not the resources? Huh? I have pounded the table on this for years, so much so that I am sure many were getting SICK of me posting to newbies. So a new set of eyes comes along and all is lost? I guess I could create a thread in the general section with a collection of the stroll maps, but perhaps someone else will pick up the baton? I learned so much from these threads. Just hope others might too. It is a great resource, but others need to RTFTs, get knowledgeable and pass that on to others. One guy can't do it all! So if you have learned something from being here, pay it back, share & help others! Everyone is a newbie at some point!
[B]3. [/B] Then there was a recent newbie who inquired about rules of the road. In that case the newbie was appropriately directed to the threads on SWers.
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/custompages.php?pageid=MongeringRules[/URL]
Key part of that is that there are THREE posts there that would be helpful to read, reread, studied and INTERNALIZED. I found that one can go out on the stroll without doing so, but things happen so fast out there. When something is about to happen or is happening, it is not the time to try to remember-what was that rule? Things improved when I got them internalized. Oh well, at least that is what I did.
BUT, I'll add that SW rules aren't the only hobby rules one needs. Trying to apply SW rules to internet dating never worked for me; too many things left out. So to promote my own "book" I'd suggest sharing the rules thread as well!
Home >Forum >Special Interests >Rules for BackPage Mongering.
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?13919-My-Suggestions.-Rules-For-BackPage[/URL]
[B]4.[/B] I have spent time with girls who have been reported to me as being dangerous or avoid for some reason by multiple others and never had issues. However, I set things up in such a way that I have control of the situation and apparently my experience has lead to a style that tells girls 'don't mess with me!' (That doesn't mean being crude, rude, angry or disrespectful.) A girl, who I know has ripped off other dudes, told me recently that she can tell I'm the type to not pull anything on. But that comes from THINKING and experience.
So to sum up this tome: help others out! Share your posts on techniques and staying safe, rather than just reporting on who was visited. This can be a great resource if everyone chips in and shares!
Good luck! Stay Safe!
Update. Incomplete Listing of Events. X Case
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[B] [U] WHFT Time Line[/B] [/U] [I] provided as a "Paul Harvey - The Rest of The Story" service[/I].
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March 12,2019: FBI rec'd arrest warrant.
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March 14,2019: X arrested.
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March 15,2019.
- Arrest Warrant filed.
- Unsealed documents Application for Warrants, etc.
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March 15,2019: X appeared before Fed Magistrate.
- Released on own recognizance.
- 24/7 confinement at home.
- Released to custody of? Sister?
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March 18,2019: Notice of Appearance (attorney for Defense): MICHAEL ZZZZZZZZZZ, #8888888 Assistant Federal [B]Public Defender[/B].
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April 23,2019: Modification of Order of Release.
- own recognizance
- to custody of Rita ZZZZZZZZZ, fwiw Debra ZZZZ QQQQQQQQQ is his Mom
- travel restricted to MD
- no contact with victims or witnesses, including Ms ZZZZZZZZZZZZ [I](???? Under-aged Victim #1????)[/I]
- curfew 8 P to 7 A
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April 24,2019: MEMORANDUM TO COUNSEL (from Judge presiding over the case)
- Arraignment has taken place motions due:
- by May 14
- Conf call May 23 445 PM
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June 26,2019: 60-day delay - [I]Parties requested a delay so that plea negotiations could take place. This puts a hold on "the clock" that is established - i.e. "right to a speedy trial"[/I].
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June 26,2019: Order Granting Extension of Time.
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July 1, 2019: Motion to Modify Release Conditions - [I]Note: motion Denied, however, see order below[/I].
- Appeared with one charge March 15,2019
- Released on 24/7 home confinement
- Prohibited from internet
- April 23 modified release. Removed curfew
Requesting of the Court [I]Note Fed Attys and Fed "system" (pre-Trial) were opposed[/I]
- "access to smart phone would allow him [I](Ed Note: meaning X)[/I] to obtain employment with Uber or Lyft as a driver during the evenings" [I] this is what the request stated! [/I]
- Internet Access. Allow X to take online courses on Real Estate & regain his real estate license.
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July 1, 2019: Order Modify Release no more curfew, allowed to access internet.
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[I]Note: I was allowed to observed this information. Apparently there is a database one can pay to access and it shows some of the documents related to a case. I did not sign up for access to this database and only observed some documents. So there could be some holes, omissions or errors. I make no claims on the accuracy or completeness of the above. errors could be from my poor note taking or poor eyesight. Names have been redacted per forum policy.[/I]
Don't Let the Girl Choose a Spot for you!
Another reason why it is not a good idea to allow the girl you scoop to choose a spot for your date!
[URL]https://spankbang.com/2dogv/video/you[/URL]+re+fucked+on+candid+camera.
[URL]https://spankbang.com/2m536/video/street[/URL]+*****+2.
Notice how this girl looks directly at the camera from time to time. Might be staged, but with so many dudes, seems less likely.
Girl is meticulous, same thing every time:
Cleans the dudes junk with wet wipe, puts on party hat, cleans party hat, head, standing mish, then variations of doggie, mish, etc. Before grabbing junk with wet wipe, pulling off hat, cleaning junk.
She just needs to add waving to the camera when dude goes to get back in!
Douchebaggery Continues! But Good Signs too!
OK, a few thoughts.
1. There are a lot of new or low number members around these days. I can't help but think that a fair number of them are dudes who saw the WHFT affidavit and rightly dumped their monger phones and dumped their accounts here, so they could start over. So might be that some of the newbies aren't so much.
2. That said, the girls tell me they are starting to get a lot of calls from 20-somethings. Hey, this is inevitable as life marches on. However, the good girls (desirable ones) aren't interested in the sh*t and disrespect that many of these dudes bring. Yeah, you are f*cking a wh*re, but that makes you a wh*remonger! So no reason to disrespect the girls or look down on them. In fact, if you treat them as you would want a dude to treat your sister on a date you'll get a better experience. This approach has always worked for me over the years and might be one reason I can keep prices low.
3. For those truly new to mongering I can't stress enough the need to take it slow and LEARN! [B]While mongering may look easy, safe long-term mongering is far from easy.[/B] Treat this like anything else new you do and be patient in the learning process. Seems kike 20 something have no respect for history or the past! Sigh. [U]There is a WEALTH of info on these threads,[/U] so reading back a year or two can be instructive and helpful. Yeah, it takes time! But what new thing doesn't take some time to learn? You can take short cuts if you wish, just don't be surprised if you have more than a few "experiential learning" situations! Problem is some might be dangerous, others financial hits and some might even get you jammed up! I will say, the other day I did see a monger suggest to a newbie that they should read the entire board, because that had helped them in the hobby! Kudos! Someone got it!
4. Prices! I think we all know the prices out there. There have been many reports of what are "street rates" etc. Since we know the boards are monitored periodically, I might not be so quick as to ask publicly about damages. Maybe I'm being paranoid? In the past would not have given that advice.
5. Why couldn't youse guys let me die with pappasmurf? Do I have to spell out my recent absence? If you are aware of what has transpired in the hobby in 2019, as noted in #1 above, one should be able to make the leap?
6. I see a couple of dudes have taken the lull in this thread as permission to post pictures and no text / indo! When I get private off site emails from girls complaining about their picture being posted, then it has gone too far! Come on guys we can do better!
7. One thing I did note from the WHFT ordeal was that dudes were using sign-in / screen names that contained their real name! Same with monger email addresses! Sigh. When LE saw a poster name of Albert567, it wasn't too hard to match that up with the dude they found from a license plate search. Albert Smith (made up name)! So jeez!
8. There is a lot of lively discussion on the boards and seems to be lots of sharing. So kudos! Glad to see others picking up the ball and running with it in my absence!
Now to paraphrase an others tag line (my apologies for stealing it!) - down scope!
Monger and Girl and another Monger Douchbaggery
So the girl first. There is a new girl on uLA who's name is. Wait for it. [B]Ashley![/B] NO! Not always preggers Ashley! This one is half Hispanic, a bit rotund (small BBW) and has some red / pink streaks in her hair. Anyway, I have been warned about her by my required 3 separate girls and thus this one is on the [B]NO FLY LIST![/B] Seems that in group therapy some people say things they ought to keep their moth shut about. Why would anyone talk about owning Residential Real Estate in Virginia? But the discussion was had and many ears heard it. So hey I guess there is some dude who will think I am trying to stop them from seeing the girl and am thus stating the no fly list as a method to keep her all to myself. But hey! Some have to learn 'life long' lessons the hard way!
Next, a Monger! I see a dude had a bad experience with a girl involving bodily fluids from the end of the GI track. Hey, "interesting" things happen to all of us from time to time. But what is the point in creating a nickname for this girl based on that event and using it constantly? First the nickname is just juvenile but it's constant use is just plain degrading to the girl! I wonder if this is an indication of either the maturity level of the monger or his view of the girls he is dating? Then others have jumped in and used the term / nickname too? Seriously? Look, if you have a bad experience with a girl, big deal, it happens! But if you need to pump yourself up by degrading a girl, or think name calling is fun / funny, then shame on you! Some of my success in the hobby comes from the fact that I treat all girls with respect. Believe me the girls figure that out and avoid the disrespectful guys and are willing to be more accommodating to the respectful ones. But hey, everyone is free to come on a public forum and demonstrate their true colors.
Finally I see a monger claiming mongering is easy and no need to follow any silly rules! LOL! Sure looks like an arrogant attitude or a fair amount of hubris? As one with a fair amount of both, I believe I am qualified to comment here. Let me just say this, I have had more than a few "interesting" and dangerous experiences. Most if not all of those experiences happened when 1) I thought I knew everything or 2) I just plain flat out ignored the rules or one aspect of them. Can a monger wing it and be fine? Yeah sure, er at least until the streets, a girl or LE catches up with them! Like I have pounded the table over the years, read the rules, reread the rules and read them again until they are ingrained in your mind and the way you practice the hobby. But hey, been around long enough to see that everyone perceives and handles risk differently. I still say, [B]mongering looks easy, but consistently safe mongering is anything but easy![/B].
For any newbies reading this here are the "rules" in three posts (read all three), for SW mongering:
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/custompages.php?pageid=MongeringRules[/URL]
For online dating, this short thread is a good guide:
[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?13919-My-Suggestions.-Rules-For-BackPage[/URL]
As always, if one has questions about style or techniques in the hobby, the boards are a great place to ask! Gents are usually willing to share 'how to' information. Much more so than the number of their favorite girl. So if in doubt -ASK! Easier & quicker way to get an education, rather than paying "tuition" in the school of hard knocks!
Be safe, be cool, be respectful!
Real estate you don't want
[QUOTE=Seeker5901;4482248]Forgive my being dense, what the heck is owning residential real estate in Virginia?[/QUOTE]*H*ouse *I*and *V*irginia.
1 photos
WHFT Case Moving Slowly. PSA
So the most recent event is a motion to exclude the time from March to November 26 from the "speedy trial" clock time. Apparently defendant has the right to a trial within 70-days of arraignment or something. So now plea negotiations are underway. A plea has been submitted to the defendant (Xavier) and is under consideration. So dude, when you want to head to Club Fed? Before T-day? After Christmas?
Hopefully this means no trial and this whole event is over and records get archived. I suspect many are still holding their breath?
Anyway, in the mean time there was a review of the evidence collected. Posted to the fed court record was inventories of items seized on execution of search warrants. One inventory is of particular interest to this writer and is posted here because it might be of public interest.
Now I am pretty sure saw video on the WHFT website at one point that suggested this and saw info in the Affidavit filed in support of the search warrants that stated X had sex with girls he was hiring.
Is it Ignorance or Hubris?
Shaking my head on this one.
Dude posts on other states threads that he is looking for an ex-WHFT girl. He is given advice there from more that one as to let sleeping dogs lie. One helpful poster points the dude in the direction of the WHFT thread in DE, where I would think most would read, at least, the recent posts and be given pause. Yet the dude goes ahead and posts there STILL looking for the girl? Shaking my head.
Just a dumb question: Why would anyone want to find ex-X girls? Seems pretty clear from the court docs I saw posted here, that there are any number of ex-X girls on the prosecution witness list and which LE is still in contact with. I also noted that the way LE "found out" X had broken his bail conditions by contacting his ex-girls and soliciting them, was by reading these threads. So, it is probably just my natural paranoia, but that doesn't seem like anything I'd want to wave a red flag at!
There are plenty of other waters one can fish in as the threads will atest, so why are dudes taking the risk of playing in those water? I guess many from outside DE don't perceive the "nature" of this place, its interconnections, etc. ?
So are those who want to play that game just ignorant (uneducated, unaware) of the happenings or are they full of hubris, it will never happen to me?
Since the dude was a WHFT client I wonder if he is aware the FBI has a video of his naked azz with the girl?
There is info around on how to stay safe and many posters are willing to share their experience and techniques. Just ask! A successful player is always learning! Should be no excuse for ignorance. I am just saying.
Be smart, stay safe amigos!
