Agency Discussion and Reviews

[QUOTE=SaintPolycarp;6678406]We all know that none of the girls at BTT were trafficked! They all were as independent as the girls on [URL]Eros.com[/URL] or Tryst, and all the so-called "indie" girls on those escort platforms have very organized pimps and / or security guards. Unfortunately, Feds' recent circus show ended short, too short! Federal judges hate prostitution cases, and now USA must be responsible for the victimless victims.[/QUOTE]Tax evasion, money laundering, and profiting from prostitution. I speak to some of those providers semi-regularly even when they are not here, they are 100% independent. The real crime was them making money. All of this needs to be legalized and properly taxed.

[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6678852][URL]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2422[/URL]

One thing to watch for is whether the defendants are permitted to proceed separately. Their lawyers will certainly request that and the feds will argue against it. If they're allowed to separate their cases from each other, things will get more complicated and take longer. I don't expect any charges against providers so, if they're involved at all, it'll probably be as witnesses. If that happens, the feds will carefully pick a woman who has a "coerced victim" story to tell. But I'm just thinking out loud because, as I said earlier, I doubt this will go to trial.[/QUOTE]This is interesting.

I wonder what mongers who went to BEG should be rooting for.

A quick plea deal would draw less media attention.

But if this draws out, and states don't want to proceed until it ends, the statute of limitations would start to kick in for more people as the days go by.

From the affadavid:

"23 Precise location information for Virginia Brothel Phone 2 received beginning on or about October 27,2023 through the date of this Affidavit placed it generally in a location other than Massachusetts. The location and holder of that device remains under investigation. While indeed Virginia Brothel Phone 2 is listed on Brown Eye Girl website, agents who interviewed customers who received prostitution services from the Virginia brothel locations learned that those customers communicated with Virginia Brothel Phone 1. ".

Sounds like the 2277 phone number was with someone other than the three people that got arrested. Possible the feds only got the 8262 phone.

If BTT group are found guilty of sex trafficking then all of the Korean, Chinese, Russian, Latina, Japanese, Vietnamese, White or Black or Brown or Pink or Rainbow escorts with their patronizing pimps and drivers and assistances are done. However, the federal court in MA hates this situation. This is exactly why, unlike HSI's ambitious affidavit, MA DOJ has intentionally been using such benign expressions as "high-end brothel", "commercial sex act", "commercial sex buyers", "prostitution" instead of "sexual exploitation", "sex trafficking". And now MA AG has to prove if there was any commercial sex act that was induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age to move forward with the full accusations of HSI. In any case, this is fucking bullshit bigotry, fuck BTT! Who cares?

The general consensus on the Boston thread seems to be that this will blowback harder than expected. Definitely recommend anyone involved stay up to date on the thread.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?32529-Boston-Top-Ten[/URL]

[QUOTE=Derilious89;6678416]It's not about being related or busted, but about being safe. After a major, national-news bust, most places are going to keep their head down in case local cops decide to look for their own glory and get a bust as well. Additionally, I imagine that a ton of mongers starting calling in sick and cancelling appointments so there may be less cash to go around. Finally, some of the girls who were planning to come in might also decide to skip Boston and DC for awhile, or just take a short vacation as a whole until the heat dies down.[/QUOTE]This is the real lasting damage here for all of us. And things were just getting good with plenty of influx of K-girls and J-girls!! Now it's back to 2016!

[QUOTE=SaintPolycarp;6679239]If BTT group are found guilty of sex trafficking then all of the Korean, Chinese, Russian, Latina, Japanese, Vietnamese, White or Black or Brown or Pink or Rainbow escorts with their patronizing pimps and drivers and assistances are done. However, the federal court in MA hates this situation. This is exactly why, unlike HSI's ambitious affidavit, MA DOJ has intentionally been using such benign expressions as "high-end brothel", "commercial sex act", "commercial sex buyers", "prostitution" instead of "sexual exploitation", "sex trafficking". And now MA AG has to prove if there was any commercial sex act that was induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age to move forward with the full accusations of HSI. In any case, this is fucking bullshit bigotry, fuck BTT! Who cares?[/QUOTE]Not sure what your source is for that statement. Federal judges are a diverse bunch, so I don't see how a blanket statement can be made about any federal district.

Consider, for example, that if a judge with conservative leanings is assigned to the case, they're likely to have a negative view of the defendants because of their negative view about prostitution. OTOH, if a judge with liberal leanings is assigned to the case, they're likely to have a negative view of the defendants because of their negative view about (alleged) trafficking and victimization of women. Hard to see how this isn't a lose-lose for defendants.

Also, if the federal court in MA is truly an inhospitable environment, prosecutors could indict and pursue the case in VA. If they don't, that would seem to suggest they're not very concerned. As for what MA might do, I don't live there so I haven't been following local news and views. While (IIRC) it's not technically double-jeopardy for both the feds and MA to prosecute for the same activity, it does present some conflicts. For example, if the feds pursue asset forfeiture, then MA can't really go after the same pot of money. MA and VA could still move forward, but they'll obviously need to coordinate everything with the feds, and the fed prosecution will take precedence.

About the search warrant affidavit, it has only one purpose, to establish probable cause to search locations and seize evidence. The actual charges for trial will be in the indictment, which hasn't yet been issued. That's the next shoe to drop and it's my guess the feds are using what they found in the searches to finalize the indictment before presenting it to a Grand Jury. That will contain the info most relevant to what a judge and jury will be asked to consider, not the SW affidavit. So stay tuned!

Other provider agencies are obviously watching developments closely, and will certainly make adjustments. Just thinking out loud, one thing they might do is more clearly separate operations in different states. That's easier said than done, but it's the interstate aspect that gives the feds their best opening for involvement. Another possibility is changing to a "sex club" model. They could sell memberships that entitle members to a certain number of visits per month to the "club," and whatever happens during those visits is a private matter between individuals. The sticky point (pun intended) to that scenario is figuring out how to pay the providers in a way that sidesteps the "$ for sex" problem.

This isn't the first agency bust, nor will it be the last. Agencies will adapt, as will clients. It's my hope that, at a minimum, mongers will be shaken out of their complacency about the risks of giving up their PII. Just. Don't. Do. It.

[QUOTE=Markam;6679456]This is the real lasting damage here for all of us. And things were just getting good with plenty of influx of K-girls and J-girls!! Now it's back to 2016![/QUOTE]I contacted a few independents I have seen before and most of them have already increased their rates. I assume they are getting more demand now.

[QUOTE=Alien988;6679868]I contacted a few independents I have seen before and most of them have already increased their rates. I assume they are getting more demand now.[/QUOTE]Most suckers will pay, then later complain about prices going up.

First off, I've been reading both the VA and Boston boards and there is way too much worry going around. People are acting like this is some unique, game-changing event; it's happened multiple times in the last decade to varying degrees. Multiple agencies have gotten busted in NOVA over the past few years, it's only that this is a federal case due to the interstate aspect. You guys need to read the damn charging document. There is no evidence of prostitution, just testimony from the mongers who got flipped (it's not applicable to you). Unless the owners were secretly recording people (document doesn't allege that), then there should be no evidence of your getting your willy wet unless you were literally stupid enough to say you were paying for explicit acts. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the agency would have banned you for doing that, anyway. It just feels like there is way too much hand-wringing over this when the deed is done and there is very little evidence (in the document and from past experience) about random joes getting arrested. If you're really that scared of the police, admit your sins to your wife now so it doesn't surprise her later since that is the most likely thing to happen (and that percent is super, super low as well).

Nothing is going to change in the agency market, as well. There may be a downtime as the heat dies down, but the agencies will assuredly be back. There may be some changes to a different business model, but I'm even less convinced of that. Agencies will just work to silo their operations more, be safer with their laundering, and be more strict with screening and explicit talk.

It's also annoying to see a bunch of mongers post asking for information or about how scared they are and yet we never saw them make any reports.

[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6676210]It's unlikely that anyone will be individually outed to their family. That would not only be stupid, from a PR standpoint, but would also (as you mentioned) leave prosecutors and LE open to legal actions.

If, for whatever reason, they want to out people publicly, the smarter way to do it is to either find some kind of pseudo-legal pretext or else find some way to orchestrate an "accidental" release that can't readily be traced to anyone. I'm sure there are a number of slimy, publicity-hungry media outlets that would be willing to assist.

It's the non-public use that should be most concerning to some. While flat-out blackmail is unlikely to happen, knowledge is power and some high ranking officials may be faced with a choice between resignation or becoming the subject of a separate (non-criminal) investigation. Most govt officials have some kind of security clearance, and that's the likeliest method of arm-twisting I can think of.

And, since govt and private sector bigwigs tend to benefit from a double standard, it's probable that they'll be allowed to handle their problems differently than the smaller fish. They have influence and stuff to bargain with. It's the lower and mid-level guys who are more likely to get screwed, and not in a good way. Suspension or revocation of a clearance is a career-ender. The feds don't have to tell your family anything because it'll be up to you to explain why you lost your job and are unemployable in your (former) chosen field.

Note: Just for clarification, I'm not saying any of this Will happen, only that it's possible and anyone who thinks they may be at risk should prepare for worst-case scenarios. Also, for those who are still inclined to trade PII for access to pussy, these are some of the associated risks.[/QUOTE]If you're a blue collar worker who doesn't require a secret clearance or some other deep dive of what you have done up until now, you're most likely safe in the legal aspect as long as you didn't let the little head convince you to lease an apartment for girls to work out of. That said, depending on the level of clearance and what agency you work for, that's another story. Feds LOVE busting other Feds and LE for misconduct. It sucks and this kind of service SHOULD be legal but alas, that's not the letter of the law as it stands.

They'll be people pushing for a list as it is a sexy salacious story to hear about a politician or lawyer that has actively convict those of engaging in sec services and ends up being a customer. People would eat that shit up.

I'm not here to be a dick but it's obvious most commenting about the legal risks have not A) read the public affidavit and B) do not even have a basic understanding of the legal system in these matters. No mongers "gave up" information the feds didn't already know. There was surveillance for months, they started stopping guys to AFFIRM what they already knew, build their case. If you read it and you've been in this game for any time you also realize how inept LE can be. For instance surmising that when they see some old man locking the door from the outside means these woman are trafficked against their will. Also this was called "high end escort service". Compared to what? Streetwalkers? There are escorts who rightfully charge $1500-$3,000 an hour. The girls of BO and BTT hardly rank in that category. If you have given them your info, and paid for sex with one of their girls during the times (read) of their operation, you should be worried. It's unlikely, but just think this through. You are at risk. This hobby is risky. End of story. Anyone speculating about what will happen is guessing unless they are sitting in on the conversations the state attorneys might be having over what to do. They have many options and none of us know the end game here. The idea they would just "out" a customer and that media is "starving for these stories" is again, just guess work. It is not likely you will end up in the news, but you could have trouble if you went to this place of known prostitution (they have enough evidence for a case on this) you could be in trouble. Any lawyer would tell you the same. All this "well they have to catch you right in the middle of sex and then prove you paid by recording or witnessing the exchange of money" is bulljunk, as Prime would say. I have a good friend in Chicago who was arrested and jailed in a sting for simply stopping and asking a girl (undercover) "how much for half and half"? Done. Cost him tens of thousands to get out of conviction and have his record expunged. Not trying to worry anyone but you could be at risk if you went there during their operation. No one but the state attorneys managing the case knows what comes next.

[QUOTE=RedRocks1968;6680185] No mongers "gave up" information the feds didn't already know. There was surveillance for months, they started stopping guys to AFFIRM what they already knew, build their case. [/QUOTE]Not to be a dick here, but everybody "knows" what's going on. Spend a couple weeks investigating and you can understand the whole game on the process works. But the affirmation is the most part; they need to have a witness to corroborate the story. So yes, mongers "gave up" information because everything before that point was an unfounded assumption (juries won't indict or convict on it). The customers are the ones who corroborate the story and then, worse yet, gave them text messages to reinforce their own corroboration.

[QUOTE=RedRocks1968;6680185]
All this "well they have to catch you right in the middle of sex and then prove you paid by recording or witnessing the exchange of money" is bulljunk, as Prime would say. I have a good friend in Chicago who was arrested and jailed in a sting for simply stopping and asking a girl (undercover) "how much for half and half"? Done. Cost him tens of thousands to get out of conviction and have his record expunged.[/QUOTE]I think your friend is downplaying what he said or did to save face. But if he's being honesty, and no offense to your friend, he's a moron. Don't mention money and you don't get hit with solicitation; it's a simple concept and one of the few ways you can easily get arrested. If a girl propositions you for sex, you should never, ever say "how much?" Dude buried himself and it's why everyone says to not be stupid over text. IMO, don't give an example of someone being stupid and literally engaging in open solicitation of a crime as a example to prove that the cops will get you. They need hard evidence or strong intent; your friend gave undisputed intent. Paying a girl to go to a room to hang out is neither hard evidence or strong intent. This has been proven time and time again in court.

[QUOTE=Finitts;6679872]Most suckers will pay, then later complain about prices going up.[/QUOTE]More worse is when they pay and tried to fake it by posting false info online about discounts, but in reality, they are actually going utr feeding them and telling diff stories online. Its totally ruining the market.

[QUOTE=Derilious89;6679931]First off, I've been reading both the VA and Boston boards and there is way too much worry going around. People are acting like this is some unique, game-changing event; it's happened multiple times in the last decade to varying degrees. Multiple agencies have gotten busted in NOVA over the past few years, it's only that this is a federal case due to the interstate aspect. You guys need to read the damn charging document. There is no evidence of prostitution, just testimony from the mongers who got flipped (it's not applicable to you). Unless the owners were secretly recording people (document doesn't allege that), then there should be no evidence of your getting your willy wet unless you were literally stupid enough to say you were paying for explicit acts. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the agency would have banned you for doing that, anyway. It just feels like there is way too much hand-wringing over this when the deed is done and there is very little evidence (in the document and from past experience) about random joes getting arrested. If you're really that scared of the police, admit your sins to your wife now so it doesn't surprise her later since that is the most likely thing to happen (and that percent is super, super low as well).

Nothing is going to change in the agency market, as well. There may be a downtime as the heat dies down, but the agencies will assuredly be back. There may be some changes to a different business model, but I'm even less convinced of that. Agencies will just work to silo their operations more, be safer with their laundering, and be more strict with screening and explicit talk.

It's also annoying to see a bunch of mongers post asking for information or about how scared they are and yet we never saw them make any reports.[/QUOTE]We haven't seen the actual charging document yet. As I posted earlier today:

"About the search warrant affidavit, it has only one purpose, to establish probable cause to search locations and seize evidence. The actual charges for trial will be in the indictment, which hasn't yet been issued. That's the next shoe to drop and it's my guess the feds are using what they found in the searches to finalize the indictment before presenting it to a Grand Jury. That will contain the info most relevant to what a judge and jury will be asked to consider, not the SW affidavit".

As to your other points, I agree that this isn't a unique event. I also agree that, absent exceptional circumstances, individual clients are unlikely to get dragged into the criminal case. That being said, some clients may not be out of the woods with respect to possible non-criminal fallout. I posted on the Boston board about relative risks. I'll also repost in this forum since it relates to the situation in VA as well.