General Reports

I decided to try the Trend in Ky, but on my way I drove through OTR to see what, if anything, was going on. I didn't want to do any business since I'd read reports on Vortex on Tuesdays, but was curious. Sure enough, as soon as I turned onto Liberty, LE showed up. When I turned, they went straight, so I drove through the area to check out the sights. One wsw, redhead, about a 7 on the first pass, and a blonde wsw, also about a 7 further down. I considered my options and decided the area was too dangerous. This was around 10:00 a.m.

Still, it's nice to know there is still some quality around.

To my friends on the board who busted the chops of my friend (see previous posts).

I agree that my friend might have handled things differently. But reconsider several facts:

He had, in fact, NOT picked up the black girl in OTR--he was IN FACT driving through OTR (BIG mistake) to take her for a bite to eat... He made no flagrant traffic moves, did not call attention to himself except... see next. (Yes--he WAS hoping for a little intimacy after the meal--NOT a crime, inspite of LE's claim.)

Yes, he COULD have argued with LE about the legitimacy of the stop (for which there was NOT even a flimsy excuse...) I mean, EXCUSE him for driving in Hamilton County with an out of county license plate--and EXCUSE him for having a black girl in the vehicle, he being white... (LE: "You know--it looks bad a white guy having a black girl in his vehicle..." Sheesh.) No traffic violation, seat belts fastened--the sole reason for the stop? Racially mixed couple, out of county license...

Yes, he COULD have "stood up for his rights" and said, "No way, you can't search my vehicle," even being confident that there was nothing in there by which they could nail him (no drugs, no guns, no nuthin'...). But, as BSG suggests--how much time do you want to spend in police custody to make a point? There are times when we take a stand, and are willing to be held in custody, or even go to jail for it--but (and doesn't LE know it) most of us duck and take cover. Yes, my friend copped out instead of resisting... Maybe I would have done differently--maybe not. And you???

I would love to hear of one of us who EVER said to LE, "No, I will only give you my name, call my lawyer. No, you can't search my car. No, I will not answer ANY of your questions..." If you have, let us know.

Short of that, we all agree that it is scandalous the way that, in the name of the Patriot Act, etc, that individual rights have been eroded, LE lies, schemes, deceives, and bullies the "underclass" in ways that violates civil rights.

What happened to "Law and Order" in the "Land of the Free?" And is there a way we can fight this injustice without going straight to jail or paying a lawyer big bucks??? Maybe not.

Giani

I'm from Indianapolis, but kind of keep an eye on the activities in the surrounding region as well, after all, you never know, a post from a nearby area may make me decide to take a road trip.

Here's my .02 about your friend's encounter. I am not a lawyer, so take it for what it's worth.

[b]{Fair Warning, and an Apology to all of you, and to Jackson. This is a LOOONNG post.}[/b]

[QUOTE=Giani]...Yes, he COULD have argued with LE about the legitimacy of the stop (for which there was NOT even a flimsy excuse...) ...No traffic violation, seat belts fastened--the sole reason for the stop?[/QUOTE]

You have every right to ask why you are being stopped. Yes, LE will come up with some BS excuse, but it's a good idea to let LE know that you know you haven't done anything wrong. You don't have to be confrontational about it, just ask why you're being stopped. They [i]have[/i] to have a reason. In fact, LE has to have what is called [b]"Reasonable Articulatable Suspicion"[/b] that you are involved in a Criminal Activity, or have demonstrably broken the Law (ie. speeding) to pull you over. Asking why you are pulled over lets the LEO know you are, at least somewhat, aware of your Rights. They will be a bit more careful during the rest of the encounter if, in fact, this is just a harassment stop.

[QUOTE=Giani]...Yes, he COULD have "stood up for his rights" and said, "No way, you can't search my vehicle," even being confident that there was nothing in there by which they could nail him (no drugs, no guns, no nuthin'...)...[/QUOTE]

Basically, the same applies to a search of the vehicle as does pulling you over in the first place. If a LEO sees something in plain sight which is illegal; drugs for instance, then they have Probable Cause. However, just searching in hopes of finding something is not allowed, and is a violation of your Rights. Unless they have PC, they are [b]required[/b] to secure your permission to make a search, and you have every Right to refuse a search. When they do search your vehicle, the trunk of the vehicle is [i]not[/i] automatically included in the search. They can only search the area that is in direct control of the driver at that time, that being the cabin of the vehicle. Permission to search the trunk is [b]required[/b], and it is separate and apart from the permission to search the cabin of the vehicle.

Also, regardless of what they would have you believe, if a guest in your vehicle is carrying something illegal, again, let's say drugs, then you [b]cannot[/b] be also held responsible, even if you know they a carrying. Of course, if your guest throws them under your seat, then you [b]are[/b] responsible, as it is your vehicle.

[QUOTE=Giani]But, as BSG suggests--how much time do you want to spend in police custody to make a point?[/QUOTE]

OK, some terminology clarification is in order here. "Police Custody" suggests that you have been arrested, and there are laws regarding how long you can be held before a hearing, how long before charges are filed, etc. I believe though, that you are speaking more specifically about "how long do you want to be stuck at the side of the road doing Stupid Human Tricks?" This is quite separate from Police Custody, and also quite different from being "Detained".

Being Detained means you are being held, basically for suspicion of a crime that they don't quite have enough to tie you to yet. It's the first formal step before "Custody/{Arrest}"

However, unless you are being formally Detained, the longest LE is allowed to hold you, and make you do the Stupid Human Tricks, is [b]20 minutes[/b]. That's why you should always ask if you are free to go/are you being detained. Generally, they will have to say "No", and establishes that you are not Detained/Arrested. Again, it let's them know you are aware of your Rights. You should ask this often while LE is questioning you. If, after 20 minutes, they have no reason to detain you, then you, legally, have every Right to leave. Of course, wording this to the LE is tricky, you don't want to make them think you are trying to escape, etc. and, granted, it takes HUGE cahones to say "OK Officer, we've been here 20 minutes now, am I being Detained? No, OK, well, as per my Rights, I leaving now.", but, those [i]are[/i] your Rights.

[QUOTE=Giani]There are times when we take a stand, and are willing to be held in custody, or even go to jail for it--but (and doesn't LE know it) most of us duck and take cover.[/QUOTE]

Correction, LE [i][b]DOES[/i][/b] know it. That's why they do it. They know that most people just want to get the whole thing over with as quickly as possible, hoping for the best, and get away with as little hassle, or as small of a ticket as possible. After all, everyone is taught to Respect the Law, and Police Officers. They take that very Respect for granted, and use it against you in order to try to get you to confess to doing something, or into giving up some of your Rights, so they can get a bigger case out of the encounter.

[QUOTE=Giani]I would love to hear of one of us who EVER said to LE, "No, I will only give you my name, call my lawyer. No, you can't search my car. No, I will not answer ANY of your questions..." If you have, let us know.[/QUOTE]

Ironically, as for giving them your name, it is your Right [i][b]not[/i][/b] to give them that information either. You don't have to give a LEO your license either. It is up to [i]them[/i] to positively identify [i]you[/i]. After all, we are not a "Papers Please" type of country. (On a related note, if you [i]are[/i] arrested it is your Right to refuse to be fingerprinted and/or have a mug shot taken as well. The Supreme Court has ruled that your fingerprints are your Personal Property, and you cannot be compelled to submit them. In some states (Indiana is one) LE will often times ask you to put a thumb print on a ticket you receive, you have the Right to refuse to provide that print as well.)

You have the absolute Right to Remain Silent. You are [i]not[/i] required to answer [b]any[/b] questions asked of you. None.

[QUOTE=Giani]Short of that, we all agree that it is scandalous the way that, in the name of the Patriot Act, etc, that individual rights have been eroded, LE lies, schemes, deceives, and bullies the "underclass" in ways that violates civil rights.[/QUOTE]

It's too easy to blame to Patriot Act. Granted, there are definitely excesses in it, but the major problems in the System have existed well before the Patriot Act was passed, and, we have all been trained to be submissive, and, as you put it, "duck and take cover".

[QUOTE=Giani]What happened to "Law and Order" in the "Land of the Free?" And is there a way we can fight this injustice without going straight to jail or paying a lawyer big bucks??? Maybe not. Giani[/QUOTE]

The Land of the Free is, for the most part, still there. We just have to be willing to stand up, and protect our Rights. "Duck and Take Cover" theories only help erode our Rights. Protecting them is the right thing to do.

Also, keep this in mind: the Supreme Court has also ruled that the protection of your Rights [b]cannot[/b] be converted into a crime. If you get arrested because you were protecting your Rights, then you have a Major League Civil Rights Lawsuit you can file for having those Rights violated.

Finally, a quick word about Lawyers. Unless your Lawyer specializes in Civil Rights Law, a Lawyer [b]will not[/b] go out of their way to make sure your Rights were not violated during an encounter with LE. Here's the reason: a Lawyer is an Officer of the Court. As such, they are not supposed to do anything which displeases the Court. Their [i][b]FIRST[/i][/b] loyalty is to the Court regardless of what they tell you. You are the [i][b]LAST[/i][/b] thing they are loyal to.

For best results, seek out an independent Civil Rights Group. NOT the ACLU, they don't care about most of the small stuff, they aim too high to be of help. There is a large, and growing, group of independent Civil Rights Libertarians who are more than happy to help. Do an Web Search for some of the topics discussed here, and you will find some info.

Here's the URL of the site that Harpo2u was referring to/quoting from: [url]http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=2605[/url].

Visit this site for information related to some of our other Rights that are constantly being trampled upon: [url]http://www.landrights.com[/url]. Warning, this guy has some odd ideas about Hydrogen Peroxide, and some other stuff, but, for the most part, alot of his information is true. I am acquainted with a person who is involved in the law, and he says most of the info there is valid.

Really finally, to answer your question: I have not yet begun to protect [i]all[/i] of my Rights when dealing with LE either. I generally give them my license, and answer their questions. I have refused a Search before, and the LEO didn't say anything, just walked around the car, hoping to see something that would give them PC to search. As I learn more from my friend who often deals with protecting our Rights, I learn more, and learn how to protect my Rights. Knowledge is the Answer to fighting the Injustice you speak of.

Wallie

PS, this whole conversation should probably, as Jackson suggested, be moved to the Legal Affairs Section of the Guide.

I would never allow a cop to search my car, especially if sw held drugs and possibly dropped it on the floor. There is no reason to give a cop more ammo to put you in jail. But even if I had nothing in my car, I will never grant permission for someone to rifle through my belongings. We do have rights.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S SUGGESTION[/u]:[/b] [blue]This is interesting, but you might consider re-posting it under the [u]Police Tactics and Legal Issues [/u] thread in the Special Interests section of the Forum where it will benefit the Forum Members who are specifically looking for this type of information. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Gents, in the effort to de-clutter your section of the Board, and in taking Jackson's suggestion that the conversation be moved to the Special Interest > Police Tactics and Legal Issues of the site, I have copied/pasted our conversation from Giani's original post through Weedman's most recent response into one report in that very section.

Hopefully, it will stir some activity on that Thread of the Board, since, again, Knowledge is Power.

I have pasted the Reports here exactly as posted, and hope none of you mind too much that I took the liberty of doing that.

The Legal Issues Conversation can be found at this Section of the USASG: [url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=491903#post491903[/url]

Wallie

On Scott St. for those unfamilar with this bar. I got a tip from the forum on this spot and stopped in. I got hit on by two WSW's as soon as I walked in. I'm not sure how legit they were since I wasn't really into an around the block .20 BJ at the time. Just thought I'd mention this place for anyone looking in N. KY.

Also looked like a fair amount of street action on Madison. Saw 2 WSW's about 10 pm.

Has anyone done a hit on this one yet? Could be the real deal. PM me.

[url]http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ers/258785831.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Jim 211]Has anyone done a hit on this one yet? Could be the real deal. PM me.

[url]http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ers/258785831.html[/url][/QUOTE]She's listed twice on CL: [url]http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ers/256735797.html[/url]

Tried contacting after her first post, but no answer on phone and no return call. Not sure what that means, if anything.

Craigslist removed it. It MUST have been real. LOL

Here's an idea when you want to talk about an Ad on Craigslist. Don't just give the link of the particular Ad you want to discuss. What happens to the Ad when it gets flagged or pulled from the site and you can no longer read it.

I find that frustrating. What you can do is create a file of that Ad and just up load it in your post like you would a picture. It's simple. Open the window of the particular Ad you may see of some hot chick advertising and go to file and hit print but then make a PDF file instead of printing a hard copy. You will then have a file with all the infomation and pictures of that Ad to share. The Ad will eventually be pulled from the Craigslist site but the file you had created will be there.

How many times have you read some guys post about a really great find on Craigslist and you click on the link he has provided and the Ad had been pulled! This way we can always see that Ad months and years later.

Just an idea fellows.

Harpo2U

[QUOTE=Cincy Sinner]She's listed twice on CL: [url]http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ers/256735797.html[/url]

Tried contacting after her first post, but no answer on phone and no return call. Not sure what that means, if anything.[/QUOTE]

Well guys I did contact her and she is in NKY in the Alexandria area and is a student at Northern kentucky Univ. She was real sweet and was only in the Cincy area only till Sunday Jan. 7th but is back in Kentucky tomorrow. That's why the Ad was pulled.
She offers nude massage for 1 hour at 1.0 and does full service at 2.0 an hour. From talking to her she is the real deal and I would go for it. She was sweet to talk to on the phone and was nice nad answered all my questions.

Here is her Ad which I've made a file from the CL.

If you see her please give us a full report

Harpo2U

From what I saw today on the circuit in OTR, LE has won that particular battle... I made two circuits, and saw absolutely nada except for a ?wsw in a hoody with a black dude near Vine--but there were no eyes casting about. Besides that one possible SW, nothing.

I spoke with a dude I know, and he said no way does he send girls out on the street in OTR these days. He doesn't even want to drive through the zone.

On the other hand, I only saw a single cruiser. According to Jim on the board, N Ky may be opening up, and I have had reports of Price Hill, both lower and upper as possible good fishing places...

I haven't even seen the trannies out these days.

So, if anyone has better news, let us know. And, (I am sorry to say) if you know of specifics, post that you have specifics, and offer to share via PM to trusted colleagues. I sadly agree that LE probably makes use of this board, so details should be kept among trusted fellow boarders.

One final sad note. Those of you who know Sauna, a sweet, mixed up afficianado of a variety of drugs. It was posted in November that she had been severely injured by an attack. I recently found out from a trusted source that indeed, someone (a John? A pusher? Who?) attacked her with a hatchet to the head. Severe brain damage. She is back home in Indiana, and has "the mind of a seven year old."

I would say this... If you know of mongers who are violent towards providers, TURN THE SOBs IN!!! If you have ANY info about this particular atrocity, post it on the board. Maybe LE might even make good use of it. It is unfortunately possible that LE was in fact using her to try to get to drug dealers (a rumor I heard.)

It IS interesting that many mongers develop warm relationships with providers (in spite of the scandal sheet reports). I considered Sauna a dear friend, and it deeply saddens me to hear of her condition.

Giani

Giani,

I understand what you say for sure, However I was out night before last and found the action fair to good,as far as total out and about. The quality was sub par for the most of them tho.

The time was around 8 to 9pm.

I still find early in the morning the best times to hunt. I turned a friend on to the routes to cruise and he informs me this morning he got lucky. I have yet to get the details but he said he got a pic.

I will see if he will let me post it here.

I can never find one willing to let me take her picture, even if its not showing her face. How do you all get this girls to let you take the pics?


Also, can some one pm me on the streets used in Nky, I drove for 2 hr there last week and came up dry, not even a maybe.

LPH, I feel is worse then OTR. I have yet to wonder in UPH at all.

I tried reading north out of town and seen possible activity, unconfirmed tho.
Had one flag me on 22&3 going into town the other day but it was near le station and there was no way I was doing that. I didnt even look that way.

What about Clifton and top of the Hill? Any to be had in that area?

I received this email based on a posting I made on CL Cincy. I replied to the reporter that there is no story here. What you have are 100's of horny guys on CL and about zero real women out there answering their ads. I told the reporter that 99% of the women's ads are spam. Still the story will go on - sex sells and everybody's buying. If you want her conrtact info let me know.
You could be on the news giving your opinion with your voice disguised.

Hi, I am a reporter with Channel 5 in Cincinnati. You do not have to be
identified, but I am doing a story on how all these people are turning to
craig's list for different types of encounters.
If you would be willing to talk to us...WE WILL CONCEAL YOUR IDENTITY,
CHANGE YOUR VOICE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE YOUR NAME, please call me or
e-mail me.

Karin
Thank you!

[QUOTE=Monster #1]Giani,

I understand what you say for sure, However I was out night before last and found the action fair to good,as far as total out and about. The quality was sub par for the most of them tho.

The time was around 8 to 9pm. [/QUOTE]
I agree that the time of day has a major effect on success of SW spotting. Frankly, I generally cruise in the early afternoon. In the full daylight, one can scope out the scene much better, get a good view of the potential provider, and see lurking LE. However, the obvious traditional time for SW walking the walk is after dark. By the same token, driving the deserted OTR streets after 11:00 PM invites close scrutiny of LE.

However, the pimp I spoke with said that he does not let his girls walk in OTR anymore. Didn't tell me where they DO walk (I got thei mpression they are outcall these days. I might be able to get a number for trusted posters, but you know outcall is probably 2x-3x the street price.)

[QUOTE=Monster #1]I still find early in the morning the best times to hunt. I turned a friend on to the routes to cruise and he informs me this morning he got lucky. I have yet to get the details but he said he got a pic. [/QUOTE]
Amazingly, (I am still surprised) many mongers have luck just before dawn! I have seen several reports from guys on their way to work who had a pleasant diversion at 5:30 or 6:00 AM! Let's see that picture!
....

[QUOTE=Monster #1]Also, can some one pm me on the streets used in Nky, I drove for 2 hr there last week and came up dry, not even a maybe.

LPH, I feel is worse then OTR. I have yet to wonder in UPH at all.

I tried reading north out of town and seen possible activity, unconfirmed tho.
Had one flag me on 22&3 going into town the other day but it was near le station and there was no way I was doing that. I didnt even look that way.

What about Clifton and top of the Hill? Any to be had in that area?[/QUOTE]
NEVER seen anything but hot coeds in Clifton, and they are HARDLY casting the eye. Maybe along Vine or Clifton towards the top??? But, and I think I have a fairly sharp eye for such things, I never seen a working girl in that area.

REGARDING PICTURES: The best bet is with girls you have already been with and who know and trust you. Also, ask up front if they mind you taking a picture or two. I usually offer an additional 0.1 tip. You usually have to promise not to include their face. (Too bad--in my opinion, a full faced POV of BBBJ is as hot as they get, barring a facial. )

Be sure to park where flash will not draw attention, or in a well lit place where you do not have to use a flash. Also, if your camera has a macro feature, turn it on, because most really good pix are from a foot or two away.

Take a lesson from my experience: practice setting up the camera and taking a few shots BEFORE you are in the heat of the moment. Some of my early shots WOULD have been sizzling if they had been in focus, or I had used flash. I have attached a reworked collage taken without flash from a while back as a demonstration, as well as the original images cropped down to 648 x 648. (That is the maximum Jackson allows.) I figured the original images may not be worth posting in the original size due to low rez. Then, just to show the difference, I FINALLY got the flash turned on, and the last shot shows the resulting resolution.

And PLEASE don't post those postage stamp sized pix... They are more of a tease than satisfying...

Keep on (careful) mongering!

Giani