Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=Admin2;5133103]I didn't because I have seen that before and I still have the same question.

If the mortality rate for the US over the last ten years has been 867.8 per 100,000 people [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm[/URL] which works out to 2,863,740 dead people for 2020.

When the average mortality rate plus 300,000 excess deaths would mean 3,163,740 yet only a total of 2,851,438 have died as of December 27th perhaps you could explain to me what I'm supposed to learn from that article.

I know the article you posted said that there were 300,000 excess deaths, and I know that article quoted an article from somebody at the CDC saying that there were 300,000 excess deaths can explain why there are not 300,000 excess deaths in the CDC's running count? It's really kind of at the center of what I don't understand and it really bugs me. No shit Stud if you could explain that to me I'd stop posting this shit. I was talking to a real live epidemiologist about it once and all he told me was that I lacked the training to understand the "epidemiological glue" (I'm not making that up) that held these numbers together. I freely admit that I do not have the training to put these kinds of graphs together but I did pass elementary school so I can add and subtract and I asked him again to explain, in the most rudimentary manner possible and he said "less traffic accidents" so I looked, according to the agency that watches them traffic fatalities are down 3% which is great but only 38,000 people die a year in accidents so that's only 1000 people. When I said that to him he sort of lost it and told me that I lacked the training to even ask the question.

When you tell me that 300,000 more people died yet the projected number at the beginning of the year is exactly what has died at the end I have to ask where the extra 300,000 are? Can you tell me? If you can't, perhaps you can tell me if you learned anything from learning that there appears to be a pretty big discrepancy.[/QUOTE]Where are you getting your 2,851,438 figure?

[QUOTE=Admin2;5133103]I didn't because I have seen that before and I still have the same question.

If the mortality rate for the US over the last ten years has been 867.8 per 100,000 people [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm[/URL] which works out to 2,863,740 dead people for 2020.

When the average mortality rate plus 300,000 excess deaths would mean 3,163,740 yet only a total of 2,851,438 have died as of December 27th perhaps you could explain to me what I'm supposed to learn from that article.

I know the article you posted said that there were 300,000 excess deaths, and I know that article quoted an article from somebody at the CDC saying that there were 300,000 excess deaths can explain why there are not 300,000 excess deaths in the CDC's running count? It's really kind of at the center of what I don't understand and it really bugs me. No shit Stud if you could explain that to me I'd stop posting this shit. I was talking to a real live epidemiologist about it once and all he told me was that I lacked the training to understand the "epidemiological glue" (I'm not making that up) that held these numbers together. I freely admit that I do not have the training to put these kinds of graphs together but I did pass elementary school so I can add and subtract and I asked him again to explain, in the most rudimentary manner possible and he said "less traffic accidents" so I looked, according to the agency that watches them traffic fatalities are down 3% which is great but only 38,000 people die a year in accidents so that's only 1000 people. When I said that to him he sort of lost it and told me that I lacked the training to even ask the question.

When you tell me that 300,000 more people died yet the projected number at the beginning of the year is exactly what has died at the end I have to ask where the extra 300,000 are? Can you tell me? If you can't, perhaps you can tell me if you learned anything from learning that there appears to be a pretty big discrepancy.[/QUOTE]You can go to this CDC website and download the spreadsheet for deaths by week / cause / state / USA and total up all the deaths for 2019 and through 12/12/20.

[URL]https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/muzy-jte6/data[/URL]

I'll summarize it for you. Totals for USA in 2019 was 2,852,609. Through 12/12/2020 totals are 3,073,009. Deaths for the first two weeks of December were 99,645. See if you can use that elementary education to extrapolate what the total deaths will be through the end of 2020. Then use that fancy subtraction thing to get the difference.

Did you learn anything?

[QUOTE=MTWilliams911;5133384]I do not have to ask a doctor. I am a doctor.

Transmission of bacteria in the OR is a completely different issue than an airborne virus and non-certified cloth masks.

Peer reviewed publications show commonly used cloth masks only stop a tiny percentage of airborne viruses.

We should probably throw some virgins in a volcano to stop the spread. Probably as effective as the hysterical "shut down everything" and "wear masks" superstitious crowd.

Florida is largely open. California largely closed. Difference in spread rate is statistically not different.[/QUOTE]Let me guess, you are either a Chiropractor or a Proctologist? Hmmm, you use Florida as an example, Florida Governor DeSantis has purposely suppressed numbers of COVID cases and deaths in his state.

[B]Secrecy and spin: How Floridas governor misled the public on the COVID-19 pandemic[/B]

[I]Throughout the COVID-19 crisis in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis administration engaged in a pattern of spin and concealment that misled the public on the gravest health threat the state has ever faced, a South Florida Sun Sentinel investigation has found.

DeSantis, who owes his job to early support from President Donald Trump, imposed an approach in line with the views of the president and his powerful base of supporters. The administration suppressed unfavorable facts, dispensed dangerous misinformation, dismissed public health professionals, and promoted the views of scientific dissenters who supported the governors approach to the disease.[/I]

[URL]https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-desantis-spin-ss-prem-20201203-tyjmgkos6bd7vo7vnripqliany-htmlstory.html[/URL]

Theres more, Florida Governor DeSantis, sent his goons to the home of a former Florida department of Health employee for refusing to manipulate State COVID data.

[I]Florida State police brandishing firearms Monday raided the Tallahassee home of Rebekah Jones, the former Department of Health employee*who built the state's much-praised COVID-19 dashboard before being fired over what she said was refusing to "manipulate data."

"They pointed a gun in my face. They pointed*guns at my kids," Jones tweeted shortly before*5 p.m.*

Jones who launched her own COVID-19 dashboard after she was fired, and used crowdsourcing to raise money to support it said the agents knocked on her door*around 8:30 a.m. that*morning, took all her "hardware and tech" after showing her a warrant based on a complaint filed by*the Florida Department of Health.*[/I]

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/12/11/rebekah-jones-fired-florida-covid-19-data-chief-speaks-out-after-raid/3893165001/[/URL]

The COVID virus is so tiny it passes right through all but truly medical masks but that is as un-politically correct as when I was in command in the Army in the mid-90's I opposed the community health nurse just telling my soldiers to use a condom when the HIV virus passed through over 90% of the cheap brands of condoms. Remember the HIV pandemic of the early 80's? It was running most rampant among the gay community and drug users but they would not be honest because it was discriminating against the gays.

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;5133531]Let me guess, you are either a chiropractor or a proctologist? Hmmm, you use Florida as an example, Florida Governor DeSantis has purposely suppressed numbers of COVID cases and deaths in his state.

Secrecy and spin: How Floridas governor misled the public on the COVID-19 pandemic

[I]Throughout the COVID-19 crisis in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis administration engaged in a pattern of spin and concealment that misled the public on the gravest health threat the state has ever faced, a South Florida Sun Sentinel investigation has found.

DeSantis, who owes his job to early support from President Donald Trump, imposed an approach in line with the views of the president and his powerful base of supporters. The administration suppressed unfavorable facts, dispensed dangerous misinformation, dismissed public health professionals, and promoted the views of scientific dissenters who supported the governors approach to the disease.[/I]

[URL]https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-desantis-spin-ss-prem-20201203-tyjmgkos6bd7vo7vnripqliany-htmlstory.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5133546]The COVID virus is so tiny it passes right through all but truly medical masks but that is as un-politically correct as when I was in command in the Army in the mid-90's I opposed the community health nurse just telling my soldiers to use a condom when the HIV virus passed through over 90% of the cheap brands of condoms. Remember the HIV pandemic of the early 80's? It was running most rampant among the gay community and drug users but they would not be honest because it was discriminating against the gays.[/QUOTE]I will take the advice of the Public Health professionals.

[I]CDC recommends that people wear masks in public settings, like on public and mass transportation, at events and gatherings, and anywhere they will be around other people.[/I]
[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html[/URL]

[I]World Health Organization WHO recommends Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive strategy of measures to suppress transmission and save lives; the use of a mask alone is not sufficient to provide an adequate level of protection against COVID-19.[/I]
[URL]https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks.[/URL]

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5133546]The COVID virus is so tiny it passes right through all but truly medical masks but that is as un-politically correct as when I was in command in the Army in the mid-90's I opposed the community health nurse just telling my soldiers to use a condom when the HIV virus passed through over 90% of the cheap brands of condoms. Remember the HIV pandemic of the early 80's? It was running most rampant among the gay community and drug users but they would not be honest because it was discriminating against the gays.[/QUOTE]This debate will never end. Who cares if someone claims to be a doctor. Having worked with doctors for many, many years I've learned that having an MD behind a name doesn't make someone the smartest person in the world. Doctors have differing opinions ALL of the time, and can and will interpret data differently ALL of the time. Look at Fauci versus Scott Atlas. Malpractice cases involve doctors questioning others doctors regarding why they prescribed a certain treatment or procedure that caused harm. And numbers can be manipulate to prove anyone's point of view.

Has anyone been inside of a COVID ward? Some of us would definitely change their mind if you had the chance to see what is taking place. We all really need to start reviewing data from all sources and not from just a conservative or liberal publication. I have many friends who have had COVID. Here's the thing: Their symptoms ranged from asymptomatic to death. The 300,000+ deaths are the documented cases. How many deaths are undocumented COVID-related deaths that could possibly increase that number? One of the biggest issues is asymptomatic spreading, which undermines the mask debate. If COVID had visual indicators regardless of severity, like the chicken pox or leprosy, I can almost guarantee that most of us would stay away from that person or choose a mask.

It IS true that majority of us will not die from COVID, but I'm not a fan of the Russian Roulette characteristics of this disease. Out of the 35+ people diagnosed associated with the White House, only Herman Cain passed? What is true is that there are some post-COVID morbidities that can last for who knows how long. One of the neurologist at a Georgia medical college is collecting the morbidity data from documented case. Her warning to me was, You do NOT want to catch THIS disease. I have one friend who STILL hasn't been able to smell since March.

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;5133587]I will take the advice of the Public Health professionals.

[I]CDC recommends that people wear masks in public settings, like on public and mass transportation, at events and gatherings, and anywhere they will be around other people.[/I]
[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html[/URL]

[I]World Health Organization WHO recommends Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive strategy of measures to suppress transmission and save lives; the use of a mask alone is not sufficient to provide an adequate level of protection against COVID-19.[/I]
[URL]https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks.[/URL][/QUOTE]Most of us on this site are are part time Gynecologists are we not.

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5133811]Most of us on this site are are part time Gynecologists are we not.[/QUOTE]I've personally been a freelance gynecologist for over 40 years. Some on this thread who suggest to have medical knowledge are, at best, a veterinarian or Ph. D. As for medical expertise? Quite laughable. This here thread has become a comedy skit as of late.

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5133811]Most of us on this site are are part time Gynecologists are we not.[/QUOTE]True dat!....lol

[QUOTE=RedneckStud;5133473]You can go to this CDC website and download the spreadsheet for deaths by week / cause / state / USA and total up all the deaths for 2019 and through 12/12/20.

[URL]https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/muzy-jte6/data[/URL]

I'll summarize it for you. Totals for USA in 2019 was 2,852,609. Through 12/12/2020 totals are 3,073,009. Deaths for the first two weeks of December were 99,645. See if you can use that elementary education to extrapolate what the total deaths will be through the end of 2020. Then use that fancy subtraction thing to get the difference.

Did you learn anything?[/QUOTE]It's right here, on one page, clear as a bell, not 10,000 pages with 40 lines just for Alabama. Its not 3,073,069 it's 2,851,438 well not actually, it's going to be more because the count lags but unless 300,000 people die this week it's going to be 2. 85 million and change, same as last year, same as 2018, same as 2017, same as 2016.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm[/URL]

I know you didn't learn anything because you just keep refusing to look at the chart and keep saying the same wrong shit over and over. I understand, you picked the incorrect narrative and you're having a hard time admitting it. But the numbers are what they are, there are no extra deaths end of story.

I'm sure as a doctor, you appreciate the difference between "airborne" viruses versus those transmitted in liquid particles. As part of your medical training in virology, you'll also remember the difference in size of viral particles versus those of liquid particles and therefore the transmission through masks. Or not as the case may be.

[QUOTE=MTWilliams911;5133384]I do not have to ask a doctor. I am a doctor.

Transmission of bacteria in the OR is a completely different issue than an airborne virus and non-certified cloth masks.

Peer reviewed publications show commonly used cloth masks only stop a tiny percentage of airborne viruses.

We should probably throw some virgins in a volcano to stop the spread. Probably as effective as the hysterical "shut down everything" and "wear masks" superstitious crowd.

Florida is largely open. California largely closed. Difference in spread rate is statistically not different.[/QUOTE]

The viral "particles" are in fact orders of magnitude smaller than the gaps in the fabric of masks. However, CV19 isn't airborne. It doesn't just float about the place. It is transmitted attached to liquid droplets from coughing, sneezing or simply breathing moist air. The liquid droplets are much larger and typically are constrained from passing through masks. In or out. To a large extent.

Science experiment. Put a mask on and try to spit on someone six feet away.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5133546]The COVID virus is so tiny it passes right through all but truly medical masks but that is as un-politically correct as when I was in command in the Army in the mid-90's I opposed the community health nurse just telling my soldiers to use a condom when the HIV virus passed through over 90% of the cheap brands of condoms. Remember the HIV pandemic of the early 80's? It was running most rampant among the gay community and drug users but they would not be honest because it was discriminating against the gays.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xxxx9998;5134666]The viral "particles" are in fact orders of magnitude smaller than the gaps in the fabric of masks. However, CV19 isn't airborne. It doesn't just float about the place. It is transmitted attached to liquid droplets from coughing, sneezing or simply breathing moist air. The liquid droplets are much larger and typically are constrained from passing through masks. In or out. To a large extent.

Science experiment. Put a mask on and try to spit on someone six feet away.[/QUOTE]Tell it to the very people who wore the masks religiously and still contracted COVID.

[QUOTE=GameCockToo;5133672]This debate will never end. Who cares if someone claims to be a doctor. Having worked with doctors for many, many years I've learned that having an MD behind a name doesn't make someone the smartest person in the world. Doctors have differing opinions ALL of the time, and can and will interpret data differently ALL of the time. Look at Fauci versus Scott Atlas. Malpractice cases involve doctors questioning others doctors regarding why they prescribed a certain treatment or procedure that caused harm. And numbers can be manipulate to prove anyone's point of view.

Has anyone been inside of a COVID ward? Some of us would definitely change their mind if you had the chance to see what is taking place. We all really need to start reviewing data from all sources and not from just a conservative or liberal publication. I have many friends who have had COVID. Here's the thing: Their symptoms ranged from asymptomatic to death. The 300,000+ deaths are the documented cases. How many deaths are undocumented COVID-related deaths that could possibly increase that number? One of the biggest issues is asymptomatic spreading, which undermines the mask debate. If COVID had visual indicators regardless of severity, like the chicken pox or leprosy, I can almost guarantee that most of us would stay away from that person or choose a mask.

It IS true that majority of us will not die from COVID, but I'm not a fan of the Russian Roulette characteristics of this disease. Out of the 35+ people diagnosed associated with the White House, only Herman Cain passed? What is true is that there are some post-COVID morbidities that can last for who knows how long. One of the neurologist at a Georgia medical college is collecting the morbidity data from documented case. Her warning to me was, You do NOT want to catch THIS disease. I have one friend who STILL hasn't been able to smell since March.[/QUOTE]A death and another had their foot amputated after being in an induced coma. Don't forget they got top flight cutting edge medicine that we can't get. All while telling people that nothings wrong. A better question for the message board doctors would be, why are the same politicians that are telling the public to not be scared and there's nothing to worry about rushing to the front of the vaccine line. Most of them are younger than our most fervent anti maskers here as well.

[QUOTE=Admin2;5134349]It's right here, on one page, clear as a bell, not 10,000 pages with 40 lines just for Alabama. Its not 3,073,069 it's 2,851,438 well not actually, it's going to be more because the count lags but unless 300,000 people die this week it's going to be 2. 85 million and change, same as last year, same as 2018, same as 2017, same as 2016.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm[/URL]

I know you didn't learn anything because you just keep refusing to look at the chart and keep saying the same wrong shit over and over. I understand, you picked the incorrect narrative and you're having a hard time admitting it. But the numbers are what they are, there are no extra deaths end of story.[/QUOTE]You're thumbnail doesn't have the title of the table. Take a look again. It says from 2/1/2020. It's missing data from January.

Talk about someone that wants to stay in their narrative and not learn something!