"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1832272]Secret,

As has been said many times in the clubhouse, babies can tell you whatever they want, but it doesn't make it true. However, the same goes for the guys on these sites. I promise you, there are more flakes and fakes than legits, on both sides of the fence, but the odds are in our favor.

In my area, Chicago, there are something like 400 registered (not necessarily active) SDs, but almost 6000 (again, not necessarily active) SBs. I think that's an awfully good ratio, and one that makes me think all that is required is patience and persistence to land pretty much any baby I want.

Your CL find may have just been testing the waters with you, and not have another dude on the line at all. Think about it: if her target is 2K per month, and she's got someone willing to pay that (so she thinks) , why would she be wasting her time on you? In my experience, CL posters are either fakes, pros, or scammers, with the RARE amateur who quickly gets swallowed up or scared off.

If you are serious about entering the Bowl, I would recommend signing up for one of the legitimate sites, like SA or SD4Me. Read back through the thread to see the pros and cons of each, and then try them both to see which is better in your area. Everything you need to know is contained in these pages.

Good luck, and don't forget to write!

Scott[/QUOTE]If you chat with someone who has GPS, say something like "if you find someone who will provide you with (whatever amount) per month, then you take it" and be willing to move on without her. More times than not she'll circle back to you.

Does anyone here prefer fishing on Craigslist for non-pros over the Arrangement sites?

Forgetting the obviously outlandish offers even an 18 year old won't believe. But keeping in mind they might consider a legit offer of $$$ - $$$$$ from a real SD. Lately I have been telling the new girls "I realize you are reading all the big money offers. Just remember. You get what they pay for."

I remember an escort I used to see that wasn't worth the $ a date I was paying her. But she routinely got $$$ a date from guys that made her cringe or worse. I do believe this thread is about developing game. I hope I am contributing to that in some way as mine has definitely gone up in the short time I have been here.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1832115]PS - my average sugar per month is 1.2 K, spread out over several very fine, Quality Babies, and I have as much action as I can handle. But I have been at this for a few years, and I feel like my game is pretty good. BTW, that figure is sugar only, and does not include incidentals like hotel, drinks or meals. I figure since I am enjoying those expenses as well as my babies, I can't really charge them against the Sugar Account.[/QUOTE]I always figure the sugar plus their half of everything into my monthly report spreadsheet. This year its at 2500 a month. I won't tell you my maximum years. As it was more than my current annual income. But now, as my game is as strong as it can get, and as my fortunes rise I do not foresee a corresponding rise in my sugar expenses. I definitely papered things over in the beginning to compensate for my insecurities.

So when you hear about guys offering large sums, sometimes it is true. Knowing that, I have to have a defense for the new girls to sway their decision making. The relationships I have now are far more balanced in terms of the $ / e / p needs of the girls I see. And I only target the ones that are looking for that type of balanced relationship as opposed to the ones that can just be bought off (and many can be). But all you are buying is their body. Their minds are somewhere else. Or like my live-in likes to say, to tolerate their company she has to just "think happy thoughts"

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy; 1832400]I always figure the sugar plus their half of everything into my monthly report spreadsheet. This year its at 2500 a month. I won't tell you my maximum years. As it was more than my current annual income. But now, as my game is as strong as it can get, and as my fortunes rise I do not foresee a corresponding rise in my sugar expenses. I definitely papered things over in the beginning to compensate for my insecurities.

So when you hear about guys offering large sums, sometimes it is true. Knowing that, I have to have a defense for the new girls to sway their decision making. The relationships I have now are far more balanced in terms of the $/e / p needs of the girls I see. And I only target the ones that are looking for that type of balanced relationship as opposed to the ones that can just be bought off (and many can be). But all you are buying is their body. Their minds are somewhere else. Or like my live-in likes to say, to tolerate their company she has to just "think happy thoughts"[/QUOTE]Hollywood,

You are right in that there are a few guys out there who apparently cough up the big bucks, but I think in reality they are few and far between. Mandy had found a couple apparently (where is she, by the way?) , but from my intel in the streets, most of the 3K+ a month guys are totally full of shit. Just take a minute or two to peruse the SB blogs vs the SD blogs. The babies by far tell the truth, while the daddies all puff themselves up, with a Kia becoming a Jaguar, and a job as a security guard becoming a partner in a security management firm!

Just a little help, though. What do you mean by "$ /e / p"? Like you, I look for babies who are looking for the whole package, as opposed to a fuck for cash. I have passed on what looks like some awesome pussy, but I'm proud of myself, I think!

Slow day at work, obviously,

Scott

PS - Plus, I think if I used your formula for calculating average monthly Sugar expenses, I might be around 1600 or so. Again, this number rises when I am on the road, but falls when I am spending time with long-term babies. As an example, I spent a few hours recently with Naughty Brit for a bottle of champagne, some organic orange juice, and a ridiculously small amount of sugar, especially when compared with the number of orgasms we each had, and the time elapsed. My abs were sore the next morning, lol!

[QUOTE=Wnde8;1832314]Does anyone here prefer fishing on Craigslist for non-pros over the Arrangement sites?[/QUOTE]I recently spent a few days fishing on CL because I had heard there were still nuggets to be found there and came away with absolutely nothing but spam.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;1832314]Does anyone here prefer fishing on Craigslist for non-pros over the Arrangement sites?[/QUOTE]I have a friend here in Chicago who has astounding luck on CL, but I haven't managed to attract anything other than Eastern European (fake) hotties asking for my cc# so they can buy a plane ticket to come to the US and fuck me forever, other fakers from who-knows-where trying to trick me into verification sites where I pay to "prove I'm real", and the occasional guy who just wants to blow me but is pretending to be a girl. It may be my approach, or my text, or who knows what, but I don't waste my time with it anymore. I just let my buddy pass me along to his finds who he's done with.

In my experience, and granted it's limited, the true amateurs get scooped up within moments of posting by experts like my friend. For me, CL takes way more time, effort and game to land a non-pro fish than the Sugar sites, and while it may be cheaper, you have to almost make it your full-time job, just to save a Benjamin. And believe me, the CL girls are not any less flaky or less prone to bolt on you. Hot, non-pro pussy is skittish the world around.

Just my experience,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1832272]Secret,

As has been said many times in the clubhouse, babies can tell you whatever they want, but it doesn't make it true. However, the same goes for the guys on these sites. I promise you, there are more flakes and fakes than legits, on both sides of the fence, but the odds are in our favor.

In my area, Chicago, there are something like 400 registered (not necessarily active) SDs, but almost 6000 (again, not necessarily active) SBs. I think that's an awfully good ratio, and one that makes me think all that is required is patience and persistence to land pretty much any baby I want.

Your CL find may have just been testing the waters with you, and not have another dude on the line at all. Think about it: if her target is 2K per month, and she's got someone willing to pay that (so she thinks) , why would she be wasting her time on you? In my experience, CL posters are either fakes, pros, or scammers, with the RARE amateur who quickly gets swallowed up or scared off.

If you are serious about entering the Bowl, I would recommend signing up for one of the legitimate sites, like SA or SD4Me. Read back through the thread to see the pros and cons of each, and then try them both to see which is better in your area. Everything you need to know is contained in these pages.

Good luck, and don't forget to write!

Scott[/QUOTE]Scott I'm doing pretty well on craigslist with the SB. I'm just always looking for something new. There is no pussy like new pussy. I just notice that every once in a while I'll get response quoting $2-5K a month. Tax free! WTF!

I enjoy reading this forum because there is so info here. You guys hit every angle of this SB / SD game. The Good and the Bad and the Ugly. RICMOND? Who would have thunk it?

[QUOTE=Secret2; 1832533]Scott I'm doing pretty well on craigslist with the SB. I'm just always looking for something new. There is no pussy like new pussy. I just notice that every once in a while I'll get response quoting $2-5K a month. Tax free! WTF!
I enjoy reading this forum because there is so info here. You guys hit every angle of this SB / SD game. The Good and the Bad and the Ugly. RICMOND? Who would have thunk it?[/QUOTE]Secret, my brother,

We are a national clubhouse, but we just happen to be based in Richmond thanks to our Pater Familias, Literal2, who started this thread. In truth, Sugar Wisdom has no boundaries. Lurkers, if you have anything to contribute, post up! We welcome all contributions, as long as they are civil and contributory. Aggression has no place here, in my opinion.

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1832234]I strive to treat them all with kindness and respect, and never like it's

I listen to things they tell me, text them in the interim, tell them they are beautiful and special, and try to give them as many orgasms as they can handle! I take them to nice restaurants, buy them flowers, clothes or groceries; take them to museums and concerts, sailing or make them picnics. In short, I treat them in a way that none of the douche-bag guys their own age do, or even come close to doing.[/QUOTE]Scottie's game is the way we all need to be playing this. I know I've strived to approach the game the way he teaches us and I have had success beyond my wildest dreams with using very very modest funds.

So far 100% of the babies who have made it into the fc with me have commented on the fact that they choose me mostly because I was so sweet towards them and treated them so nice and normal. A lot of the time they passed up more money to be with me mainly because how I treat them and ESPECIALLY how I make them comfortable with me. I go for very well established women with professional jobs or babies in grad school who have their shit together exclusively.

In short treat them like the beautiful, smart, funny, cool chicks that they are. Make an effort to talk to them and get to know them. The little extra effort separates you from 90% of the guys in the crowd & it pays off in many many ways.

I *try* to play the game but let's be honest. Scottie takes this to such a higher league, we just have to sit back and watch in awe!

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606;1832574]In short treat them like the beautiful, smart, funny, cool chicks that they are. Make an effort to talk to them and get to know them. The little extra effort separates you from 90% of the guys in the crowd & it pays off in many many ways.[/QUOTE]Chi,
A well-crafted distillation of the right way to go about things, my friend - at least in my opinion. That is if you are fishing for High Quality babies.

Scott

PS - Or in fact, even if you are not. We are all people worthy of respect, are we not? The homeless person at the stoplight is still a human being, after all. It is often just luck and circumstance that [I]she[/I] is not sitting in my Volvo, and I am not shaking [I]her[/I] cup.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1832427]Hollywood,

You are right in that there are a few guys out there who apparently cough up the big bucks, but I think in reality they are few and far between. Mandy had found a couple apparently (where is she, by the way?) , but from my intel in the streets, most of the 3K+ a month guys are totally full of shit. Just take a minute or two to peruse the SB blogs vs the SD blogs. The babies by far tell the truth, while the daddies all puff themselves up, with a Kia becoming a Jaguar, and a job as a security guard becoming a partner in a security management firm!

Just a little help, though. What do you mean by "$/e / p"? Like you, I look for babies who are looking for the whole package, as opposed to a fuck for cash. I have passed on what looks like some awesome pussy, but I'm proud of myself, I think!

Slow day at work, obviously,

Scott.

PS. Plus, I think if I used your formula for calculating average monthly Sugar expenses, I might be around 1600 or so. Again, this number rises when I am on the road, but falls when I am spending time with long-term babies. As an example, I spent a few hours recently with Naughty Brit for a bottle of champagne, some organic orange juice, and a ridiculously small amount of sugar, especially when compared with the number of orgasms we each had, and the time elapsed. My abs were sore the next morning, LOL![/QUOTE]$ = financial.

E = emotional.

P = physical

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606;1832574]So far 100% of the babies who have made it into the fc with me have commented on the fact that they choose me mostly because I was so sweet towards them and treated them so nice and normal. A lot of the time they passed up more money to be with me mainly because how I treat them and ESPECIALLY how I make them comfortable with me.[/QUOTE]This is it. Just add in some loyalty to the girls and a little humorous perversion and its an equation that works.

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606;1832574]ESPECIALLY how I make them comfortable with me.[/QUOTE]After re-reading what I wrote I just want to emphasize this line.

If (like all of us) your holy grail goal is to meet an excited, beautiful, well-rounded first-timer. You really are going to have to be concerned with her nerves. Her being nervous is the #1 thing that'll work against you. You're (probably) going to have to go to multiple M&Gs where there is no sex involved. Deal with it (and enjoy it for fuck's sake). In the end you're going to have to convince her that this is not much different than any college or bar hookup she's had in the past, & to forget the money involved. Note that I'm not saying give sugar before the FC. Never ever ever do this! But you'll probably have to do a few lunches, cocktails, etc.

I always go out of my way to tell the girls that I really want them to tell me what I can do to make them comfortable. Sometimes all it is is for me to tell them about my life, growing up, what my family is like, etc. Then they feel a connection with you & its a whole lot easier for them to follow you through that hotel room door. I make it clear to them that it's meaningless to me if they are not enjoying themselves, and that I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make them comfortable with me because I do not want to be there if they aren't having a good time.

By the way that's not hard for me to say because it's honest truth. If you look at my posting history here, you'll notice the lack of reports with 'certain types' of women. I don't want to sleep with someone who is unenthusiastic & doesn't want to be there. I can get that at home LOL. GREAT sex is always bi-directional. That's what you should strive for.

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606; 1832733]After re-reading what I wrote I just want to emphasize this line.

If (like all of us) your holy grail goal is to meet an excited, beautiful, well-rounded first-timer. You really are going to have to be concerned with her nerves. Her being nervous is the #1 thing that'll work against you. You're (probably) going to have to go to multiple M&Gs where there is no sex involved. Deal with it (and enjoy it for fuck's sake). In the end you're going to have to convince her that this is not much different than any college or bar hookup she's had in the past, & to forget the money involved. Note that I'm not saying give sugar before the FC. Never ever ever do this! But you'll probably have to do a few lunches, cocktails, etc.

I always go out of my way to tell the girls that I really want them to tell me what I can do to make them comfortable. Sometimes all it is is for me to tell them about my life, growing up, what my family is like, etc. Then they feel a connection with you & its a whole lot easier for them to follow you through that hotel room door. I make it clear to them that it's meaningless to me if they are not enjoying themselves, and that I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make them comfortable with me because I do not want to be there if they aren't having a good time.

By the way that's not hard for me to say because it's honest truth. If you look at my posting history here, you'll notice the lack of reports with 'certain types' of women. I don't want to sleep with someone who is unenthusiastic & doesn't want to be there. I can get that at home LOL. GREAT sex is always bi-directional. That's what you should strive for.[/QUOTE]I would only add that at least for me if the chemstry isn't instant there usually isn't a second date. All 3 girls I see now had sex with me on the first date. And looking back except for a rare one or two it's always been like that. Including both my x wives.

I have a very specific type of girl I am attracted to, and I am a specific type as well. I try to predetermine thier attraction to my type upfront to avoid wasted time. It seems when I try to convince them it leads to nowhere. But I do lay quite a few cards on the table beforehand. And try to get as much relevant (what I consider to be relevant) info from them as well.

I am open to different arrangements, as we all are. So the interview stage can vary. Depending on that, it could go serious or not. But I never seem to stick to the casual arrangements. They either progress or die. I do currently have 2 girls in the convincing mode. And so far no real luck. A few sexy dates. No real commitment from them.