The Massholes

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2941128]Actually, everything I state is drawn from both news reports and active criminal complaints in the Commonwealth Of Massachusetts. Interesting that you claim to be an attorney, yet dismiss any suggestion of the inherent legal risks associated with these activities as "fear-mongering" and "twisted truths". Law schools teach law students to think like a lawyer, yet your meltdowns at the very mention of legal consequences would indicate that a.) You are not an attorney or b.) Your own predilection for prostitution related activities is overriding any analytical skills you may have. If indeed you are a lawyer, you are certainly not a criminal defense attorney, as you appear to be utterly unfamiliar with the current charges and sentencing guidelines that were established in 2012.[/QUOTE]Jeishein, YOu are likely an attorney as you write and represent your self so well. Howard Sprague is a no hidden agenda, solid citizen of the USG community. He has been a value add member and hope more of others can follow suit. Let's stay away from the rant & rave amongst us good brothers. God bless.

I have to agree with Howard in regards to your post, as to tone and substance.

As suggested previously, go to MassHole section, when you feel the need to pass some of your gas on this site. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2941128]Actually, everything I state is drawn from both news reports and active criminal complaints in the Commonwealth Of Massachusetts. Interesting that you claim to be an attorney, yet dismiss any suggestion of the inherent legal risks associated with these activities as "fear-mongering" and "twisted truths". Law schools teach law students to think like a lawyer, yet your meltdowns at the very mention of legal consequences would indicate that a.) You are not an attorney or b.) Your own predilection for prostitution related activities is overriding any analytical skills you may have. If indeed you are a lawyer, you are certainly not a criminal defense attorney, as you appear to be utterly unfamiliar with the current charges and sentencing guidelines that were established in 2012.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2941128]Actually, everything I state is drawn from both news reports and active criminal complaints in the Commonwealth Of Massachusetts. Interesting that you claim to be an attorney, yet dismiss any suggestion of the inherent legal risks associated with these activities as "fear-mongering" and "twisted truths". Law schools teach law students to think like a lawyer, yet your meltdowns at the very mention of legal consequences would indicate that a.) You are not an attorney or b.) Your own predilection for prostitution related activities is overriding any analytical skills you may have. If indeed you are a lawyer, you are certainly not a criminal defense attorney, as you appear to be utterly unfamiliar with the current charges and sentencing guidelines that were established in 2012.[/QUOTE]Not criticizing your sources, just your ability to understand and synthesize the information. As I stated, you twist facts and blow the situations out of proportion.

Are there legal consequences for engaging in illegal activity? Absolutely. I think that is well-understood be most everyone on this board. The key is in understanding how laws are enforced and how LEO goes about doing so. As I recall, you seem to believe merely showing up at the site of a sting will get you arrested for solicitation. That is flat out wrong. Crucial elements of the crime of solicitation of sexual activity for a fee won't have been met. You also claim being busted for solicitation can be escalated to a trafficking charge. While certainly possible, the escalation would require facts and evidence far beyond the scope of the average monger's interaction with a provider. You speak in absolutes where the law is rarely, rarely about absolutes. I have practiced in many areas of law, including criminal defense, though my areas of practice are irrelevant as any average 2 L student understands what you clearly can not.

I'm not sure what your agenda is here. Are you opposed to this hobby and trying to scare people away? Are you honestly trying to provide useful information to assist people here? Either way, please stop propagating misinformation here or just go away. I think the consensus on your value to this community at this time is clear.

Whenever you post, I think three things:

1) Why bother?

2) Why aren't all of your posts automatically moved to Massholes?

3) Are you aware Admin has already tagged you as a "douchebag"? LMAO.

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2941128]Actually, everything I state is drawn from both news reports and active criminal complaints in the Commonwealth Of Massachusetts. Interesting that you claim to be an attorney, yet dismiss any suggestion of the inherent legal risks associated with these activities as "fear-mongering" and "twisted truths". Law schools teach law students to think like a lawyer, yet your meltdowns at the very mention of legal consequences would indicate that a.) You are not an attorney or b.) Your own predilection for prostitution related activities is overriding any analytical skills you may have. If indeed you are a lawyer, you are certainly not a criminal defense attorney, as you appear to be utterly unfamiliar with the current charges and sentencing guidelines that were established in 2012.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jolem;2942268]Whenever you post, I think three things:

1) Why bother?

2) Why aren't all of your posts automatically moved to Massholes?

3) Are you aware Admin has already tagged you as a "douchebag"? LMAO.[/QUOTE]1.) Some may find the information to be helpful in their decision making.

2.) I have no knowledge of how the forum is administered.

3.) They are certainly welcome to express any opinion of me they like. It's a right protected by The Constitution.

[QUOTE=HowardSprague;2941828]Not criticizing your sources, just your ability to understand and synthesize the information. As I stated, you twist facts and blow the situations out of proportion.

Are there legal consequences for engaging in illegal activity? Absolutely. I think that is well-understood be most everyone on this board. The key is in understanding how laws are enforced and how LEO goes about doing so. As I recall, you seem to believe merely showing up at the site of a sting will get you arrested for solicitation. That is flat out wrong. Crucial elements of the crime of solicitation of sexual activity for a fee won't have been met. You also claim being busted for solicitation can be escalated to a trafficking charge. While certainly possible, the escalation would require facts and evidence far beyond the scope of the average monger's interaction with a provider. You speak in absolutes where the law is rarely, rarely about absolutes. I have practiced in many areas of law, including criminal defense, though my areas of practice are irrelevant as any average 2 L student understands what you clearly can not.

I'm not sure what your agenda is here. Are you opposed to this hobby and trying to scare people away? Are you honestly trying to provide useful information to assist people here? Either way, please stop propagating misinformation here or just go away. I think the consensus on your value to this community at this time is clear.[/QUOTE]There are many defendants who have been arrested and charged for merely showing up at a sting in spite of having remained silent. Were the elements necessary to successfully obtain a criminal complaint present? No. However, the damage was done. News items and mugshots permanantly posted the internet. Reputations destroyed. Regardless of dropped charges and acquittals, the arrest report remains on the internet and the repututation stays sullied. It seems as if you are somehow hoping the police are versed in the law, and are rational people. Unfortunately, the opposite is too often the case.

In terms of trafficking, it was recently shown in a Rhode Island court room that a Massachusetts man had knowledge of an underage prostitute's age and had requested her pimp make her available over the state line so that he may purchase sexual acts for a fee. This was demonstrated through texts and emails that were admitted as evidence. The man was charged with human trafficking, statuatory rape of a child over 14, sexual assault and kidnapping. All for texting back and forth with a provider from Backpage.

In terms if misinformation, all I report is the truth. Anyone here can google these news items. They are happening nearly every day across the country.

In terms of your legal expertise, you are again clearly not a criminal defense attorney. The men here deserve better than an estate attorney telling them nothing can go wrong.

[QUOTE=Jolem;2942268]Whenever you post, I think three things:

1) Why bother?

2) Why aren't all of your posts automatically moved to Massholes?

3) Are you aware Admin has already tagged you as a "douchebag"? LMAO.[/QUOTE][BLUE]Are you aware that in the title you said "don't feed the troll" yet your post was all about feeding the troll?

Are you schizophrenic? Was your right hand literally not aware of what your left hand was typing?

Just wondering,

A2[/BLUE]

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2943384]There are many defendants who have been arrested and charged for merely showing up at a sting in spite of having remained silent. Were the elements necessary to successfully obtain a criminal complaint present? No. However, the damage was done. News items and mugshots permanantly posted the internet. Reputations destroyed. Regardless of dropped charges and acquittals, the arrest report remains on the internet and the repututation stays sullied. It seems as if you are somehow hoping the police are versed in the law, and are rational people. Unfortunately, the opposite is too often the case.

In terms of trafficking, it was recently shown in a Rhode Island court room that a Massachusetts man had knowledge of an underage prostitute's age and had requested her pimp make her available over the state line so that he may purchase sexual acts for a fee. This was demonstrated through texts and emails that were admitted as evidence. The man was charged with human trafficking, statuatory rape of a child over 14, sexual assault and kidnapping. All for texting back and forth with a provider from Backpage.

In terms if misinformation, all I report is the truth. Anyone here can google these news items. They are happening nearly every day across the country.

In terms of your legal expertise, you are again clearly not a criminal defense attorney. The men here deserve better than an estate attorney telling them nothing can go wrong.[/QUOTE]You're proving my point about your posts by once again adding facts to justify your claims. What you've posted is perfectly in line with what I said. The trafficking case involved the knowing request that a minor be transported across a state line. That is far and away outside the normal monger / provider scenario in which the members here are likely to find themselves.

I have never advised silence. Silence would be useless.

I'm not an estate attorney you dog-fucking mongoloid. And I have practiced Criminal Defense as well as in other areas. Can you not read? Sounds like your legal expertise is derived from misunderstanding newspaper articles. I have never said nothing can go wrong. I've purposely stated in the past one can get arrested for lots of reasons. It's all in what you say and do. Just take a look at the liberal use by police of the Disorderly Conduct charge. If you understood criminal law and what police look for in a bust, you'd understand my points. But you don't and you can't. You're just propagating misinformation. Do you get off on this? Again, what is your agenda here? Better yet, why don't you just go away? No one has any respect for you or your opinions at this point.

I'm not going to waste any more time on you. Howard Sprague out! Whump! Hummmmmmmmmmmmm.

[QUOTE=HowardSprague;2941828]As I recall, you seem to believe merely showing up at the site of a sting will get you arrested for solicitation. That is flat out wrong.[/QUOTE]While I am not a proponent of the douchebag Jeishein14, & I waited to comment until the posts were moved to the Massholes forum as I knew they would be.

I do have to say he is correct in stating that if you, me, or anyone shows up to the room/site (not the just motel) where a sting is taking place you will be arrested period.

No question about it you will be arrested, processed, finger printed, photo taken & charged, unless you are the chief of police, Mayor of Boston, the governor, or another prominent figure with enough clout to be released.

Sorry to inform you but it is you that's flat out wrong here, & if you doubt this fact I sugguest you test your theory by going to a sting operation & let us know how it goes.

I can attest to this fact from my post here:[QUOTE=Skatar018;1278755]Arrested[/QUOTE]& this wasn't even a sting operation, I was just collateral damage & they were pissed as I would not incriminate myself or roll over on her.

The lawyer I hired was a former ten year prosecutor for the commenwealth of Mass & to make a long story short he could no longer in good conscious abide how LEO & prosecutors applies the law to it's citizens regardless of guilt or innocence.

Jeishein14's agenda here is very obvious that's why he bypassed addressing the issue as well as called HowardSprague an estate attorney without any evidence of such. I'm not a lawyer myself but as someone who spent decades in courtrooms throughout Massachusetts and other New England states and seen many soliciting cases go by him (once even run into an escort in Wrentham Courthouse that I visited only two weeks prior. That was funny.) I can assure you that everything Jeishein14 says is an exaggerated nonsense meant to scare us off. He (or maybe it's even a "she") is either a religious person who found his calling or just a layman who is trying to stop prostitution by any means possible or maybe even someone whose daughter strayed off the "honest path" herself.

I disagree with HowardSprague in one thing. I believe that it's highly unlikely that this person has anything to do with legal profession. Anything he says and the way he puts it can be easily acquired by surfing the internet and participating in forums of the likeminded.

You know that Mormons and many other religions get assigned by their congregations to walk around and knock on your door to bother you with you with their religion. Many even go to far away lands for missionary work and the like. Well, Jeishein14 might've even been assigned by his church to us. To discourage us, to scare us as much as he can by any means possible. If I had to guess he probably also demonstrates against abortions in front of Planned Parenthood and if he had a chance he'd even tell you what you can and can't do with your SO in the privacy of your own bedroom.

Religious fanaticism whether Christian, Muslim or any other knows no bounds and has no moral restraints when propagating their dogmas. They can lie, mislead, even go completely against any of the 10 commandments because higher purpose they serve (in Jeishein14's case it would be "saving us") excuses any behavior as long as done for that higher purpose.

I have a suggestion for forum Admins. Currently Jeishein14 is marked as Douchbag. That still basically underscores that he is a hobbyist, albeit maybe not that nice of a hobbyist. But he is not a hobbyist. He doesn't contribute anything to mongering cause. He never shares providers that he visits, he doesn't comment on providers that others visit, he doesn't even ask if anyone has any info on this or that escort. He just advertises his intolerance of hobbying believes and tries to impose it on us. Then why don't you change his status on the board to Forum Advertiser / Douchbag or Douchbag Advertiser or something like that? First of all it would equate him with those that s / he probably doesn't want to be equated with and second it would be more appropriate to what s / he does. He is here to advertise his intolerance for hobbying so s / he's more of an advertiser then a hobbyist.

Anyone who agrees say "yey".

[QUOTE=HowardSprague;2941828]

I'm not sure what your agenda is here. Are you opposed to this hobby and trying to scare people away? Are you honestly trying to provide useful information to assist people here? Either way, please stop propagating misinformation here or just go away. I think the consensus on your value to this community at this time is clear.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2943384]There are many defendants who have been arrested and charged for merely showing up at a sting in spite of having remained silent. Were the elements necessary to successfully obtain a criminal complaint present? No. However, the damage was done. News items and mugshots permanantly posted the internet. Reputations destroyed. Regardless of dropped charges and acquittals, the arrest report remains on the internet and the repututation stays sullied. It seems as if you are somehow hoping the police are versed in the law, and are rational people. Unfortunately, the opposite is too often the case.

In terms of trafficking, it was recently shown in a Rhode Island court room that a Massachusetts man had knowledge of an underage prostitute's age and had requested her pimp make her available over the state line so that he may purchase sexual acts for a fee. This was demonstrated through texts and emails that were admitted as evidence. The man was charged with human trafficking, statuatory rape of a child over 14, sexual assault and kidnapping. All for texting back and forth with a provider from Backpage.

In terms if misinformation, all I report is the truth. Anyone here can google these news items. They are happening nearly every day across the country.

In terms of your legal expertise, you are again clearly not a criminal defense attorney. The men here deserve better than an estate attorney telling them nothing can go wrong.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HowardSprague;2943674]You're proving my point about your posts by once again adding facts to justify your claims. What you've posted is perfectly in line with what I said. The trafficking case involved the knowing request that a minor be transported across a state line. That is far and away outside the normal monger / provider scenario in which the members here are likely to find themselves.

I have never advised silence. Silence would be useless.

I'm not an estate attorney you dog-fucking mongoloid. And I have practiced Criminal Defense as well as in other areas. Can you not read? Sounds like your legal expertise is derived from misunderstanding newspaper articles. I have never said nothing can go wrong. I've purposely stated in the past one can get arrested for lots of reasons. It's all in what you say and do. Just take a look at the liberal use by police of the Disorderly Conduct charge. If you understood criminal law and what police look for in a bust, you'd understand my points. But you don't and you can't. You're just propagating misinformation. Do you get off on this? Again, what is your agenda here? Better yet, why don't you just go away? No one has any respect for you or your opinions at this point.

I'm not going to waste any more time on you. Howard Sprague out! Whump! Hummmmmmmmmmmmm.[/QUOTE]I believe you have taken criminal cases. But we both know you are unqualified to try a Superior Court case. Most likely the product of a Tier 3 law school practicing in a small town. It is obvious from your inability to comprehend what you are reading and your unstable temperament that you could never take a serious criminal case the distance. I'm not sure what you're advising when you say it's okay to walk into a police sting and depending on what you say they may not arrest you. You obviously haven't been exposed to contemporary police work.

[QUOTE=Nrlmus;2943748]Jeishein14's agenda here is very obvious that's why he bypassed addressing the issue as well as called HowardSprague an estate attorney without any evidence of such. I'm not a lawyer myself but as someone who spent decades in courtrooms throughout Massachusetts and other New England states and seen many soliciting cases go by him (once even run into an escort in Wrentham Courthouse that I visited only two weeks prior. That was funny.) I can assure you that everything Jeishein14 says is an exaggerated nonsense meant to scare us off. He (or maybe it's even a "she") is either a religious person who found his calling or just a layman who is trying to stop prostitution by any means possible or maybe even someone whose daughter strayed off the "honest path" herself.

I disagree with HowardSprague in one thing. I believe that it's highly unlikely that this person has anything to do with legal profession. Anything he says and the way he puts it can be easily acquired by surfing the internet and participating in forums of the likeminded.

You know that Mormons and many other religions get assigned by their congregations to walk around and knock on your door to bother you with you with their religion. Many even go to far away lands for missionary work and the like. Well, Jeishein14 might've even been assigned by his church to us. To discourage us, to scare us as much as he can by any means possible. If I had to guess he probably also demonstrates against abortions in front of Planned Parenthood and if he had a chance he'd even tell you what you can and can't do with your SO in the privacy of your own bedroom.

Religious fanaticism whether Christian, Muslim or any other knows no bounds and has no moral restraints when propagating their dogmas. They can lie, mislead, even go completely against any of the 10 commandments because higher purpose they serve (in Jeishein14's case it would be "saving us") excuses any behavior as long as done for that higher purpose.

I have a suggestion for forum Admins. Currently Jeishein14 is marked as Douchbag. That still basically underscores that he is a hobbyist, albeit maybe not that nice of a hobbyist. But he is not a hobbyist. He doesn't contribute anything to mongering cause. He never shares providers that he visits, he doesn't comment on providers that others visit, he doesn't even ask if anyone has any info on this or that escort. He just advertises his intolerance of hobbying believes and tries to impose it on us. Then why don't you change his status on the board to Forum Advertiser / Douchbag or Douchbag Advertiser or something like that? First of all it would equate him with those that s / he probably doesn't want to be equated with and second it would be more appropriate to what s / he does. He is here to advertise his intolerance for hobbying so s / he's more of an advertiser then a hobbyist.

Anyone who agrees say "yey".[/QUOTE]Not sure which of my points you're refuting.

[QUOTE=Skatar018;2943710]While I am not a proponent of the douchebag Jeishein14, & I waited to comment until the posts were moved to the Massholes forum as I knew they would be.

I do have to say he is correct in stating that if you, me, or anyone shows up to the room/site (not the just motel) where a sting is taking place you will be arrested period.

No question about it you will be arrested, processed, finger printed, photo taken & charged, unless you are the chief of police, Mayor of Boston, the governor, or another prominent figure with enough clout to be released.

Sorry to inform you but it is you that's flat out wrong here, & if you doubt this fact I sugguest you test your theory by going to a sting operation & let us know how it goes.

I can attest to this fact from my post here:& this wasn't even a sting operation, I was just collateral damage & they were pissed as I would not incriminate myself or roll over on her.

The lawyer I hired was a former ten year prosecutor for the commenwealth of Mass & to make a long story short he could no longer in good conscious abide how LEO & prosecutors applies the law to it's citizens regardless of guilt or innocence.[/QUOTE]I'm inclined to agree, Uncle LEO has been known to make arrests whether the elements of the crime have been met or not, and just let the court deal with it. Other times they'll get your information, swear out a criminal complaint, and you'll have a hearing with the criminal clerk magistrate to determine if there's sufficient evidence to proceed with a charge. A lot of these cases end up being dismissed upon payment of court fees, but often the damage is already done by then.

Stay safe, and happy hunting.

[QUOTE=Skatar018;2943710]While I am not a proponent of the douchebag Jeishein14, & I waited to comment until the posts were moved to the Massholes forum as I knew they would be.

I do have to say he is correct in stating that if you, me, or anyone shows up to the room/site (not the just motel) where a sting is taking place you will be arrested period.

No question about it you will be arrested, processed, finger printed, photo taken & charged, unless you are the chief of police, Mayor of Boston, the governor, or another prominent figure with enough clout to be released.

Sorry to inform you but it is you that's flat out wrong here, & if you doubt this fact I sugguest you test your theory by going to a sting operation & let us know how it goes.

I can attest to this fact from my post here:& this wasn't even a sting operation, I was just collateral damage & they were pissed as I would not incriminate myself or roll over on her.

The lawyer I hired was a former ten year prosecutor for the commenwealth of Mass & to make a long story short he could no longer in good conscious abide how LEO & prosecutors applies the law to it's citizens regardless of guilt or innocence.[/QUOTE]"Not a proponent" yet acknowledges that I am "correct". What we have here is a case of blaming the messenger. In 2012 the laws and sentencing guidelines for both the procurement and paying a fee for sexual acts changed drastically. Philosophically, the criminal responsibility has been transferred from the prostitute, who is now considered to be a victim, to the pimps and johns. Both federal and state prosecutors are going after pimps and johns with increasing ferocity. Police will do anything to bring a case, including lying. To view the current climate any other way is courting disaster. But please, don't take my word for it. Simply spend an hour or two looking these news items up on the internet. And remember, should you get arrested, Howard Sprague isn't going to help you.

[QUOTE=Jeishein14;2943801]"Not a proponent" yet acknowledges that I am "correct". What we have here is a case of blaming the messenger. In 2012 the laws and sentencing guidelines for both the procurement and paying a fee for sexual acts changed drastically. Philosophically, the criminal responsibility has been transferred from the prostitute, who is now considered to be a victim, to the pimps and johns. Both federal and state prosecutors are going after pimps and johns with increasing ferocity. Police will do anything to bring a case, including lying. To view the current climate any other way is courting disaster. But please, don't take my word for it. Simply spend an hour or two looking these news items up on the internet. And remember, should you get arrested, Howard Sprague isn't going to help you.[/QUOTE]No one is shooting the messenger, it's just that you're not telling us anything that we do not already know & have already discussed on the forums, seems you're about 4 years late.

But what is it you expect? To close up shop? That's not going to happen, that chit is primal instinct, it's encoded in our DNA which trumps any written law, regardless what the punishment or ramifications are.

So precisely what is the point you of being here?