I'm not certain that you're being honest with us, sport.
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Then scroll past sport.
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I'm not certain that you're being honest with us, sport.
[blue][Deleted by Admin]
Then scroll past sport.
A2[/blue]
[QUOTE=TheDaytimer;5351983]You can get tested 100% anonymously. You pay online using a prepaid visa you can get for cash at Speedway. No trace back to you. You use any name when you make the appt and use a throwaway email account. They send you to LABCORP which calls you by the name you gave to the service. No I'd required. Then wait 24-36 hours and you get a full report. If you test positive, you can get meds from the same services for a small "consultation" fee. Once again you can pick them up at your local pharmacy with out an I'd as long as you pay cash.[/QUOTE]What's the name of the website?
[QUOTE=Slowhand4U;5352486]What's the name of the website?[/QUOTE]I used [URL]https://www.health[/URL]labs dot com.
Also STDCHECK dot com.
I did it with no way to connect to my real identity.
So I tried and went down to their apartment hotel on Chester, was told the building number. I got there and texted, she said come down in between the buildings. I walked down and saw two kids playing, a man sitting by a door, so I just kept walking down to the next two buildings. I texted and asked her where she is, she couldn't see me and wouldn't tell me which room she's at either. I spent 20 min walking back and forth on my phone trying not to look like a perv with the two kids playing outside, never got a straight answer from the 901 people.
Hit back the highway and back up north. So much for trying the Taiwanese girl. I texted something only a Taiwanese would understand and didn't get a response, so at least the handler is not Taiwanese.
[QUOTE=Gonz199;5352168]Haha. Sorry, Charlie. That ain't going to help you if there were actually bees in her honey pot. Last time I got stupid and hit it uncovered I came away with an unwanted gift. The bad thing is that the gal still posts on LC, and I'd bet my next paycheck she hasn't bothered to clear herself up. Every time I see her ad I cringe. That's all I'll say about that.[/QUOTE]Yep like throwing salt over your shoulder.
[QUOTE=NothingToDo;5352706]So I tried and went down to their apartment hotel on Chester, was told the building number. I got there and texted, she said come down in between the buildings. I walked down and saw two kids playing, a man sitting by a door, so I just kept walking down to the next two buildings. I texted and asked her where she is, she couldn't see me and wouldn't tell me which room she's at either. I spent 20 min walking back and forth on my phone trying not to look like a perv with the two kids playing outside, never got a straight answer from the 901 people.
Hit back the highway and back up north. So much for trying the Taiwanese girl. I texted something only a Taiwanese would understand and didn't get a response, so at least the handler is not Taiwanese.[/QUOTE]Total waste of my time. I assume it's some sort of pre-screening that they do. Maybe somehow I look like LEO to them I'm not sure. However once was enough for me. I won't continue to try.
[QUOTE=NothingToDo;5352706]So I tried and went down to their apartment hotel on Chester, was told the building number. I got there and texted, she said come down in between the buildings. I walked down and saw two kids playing, a man sitting by a door, so I just kept walking down to the next two buildings. I texted and asked her where she is, she couldn't see me and wouldn't tell me which room she's at either. I spent 20 min walking back and forth on my phone trying not to look like a perv with the two kids playing outside, never got a straight answer from the 901 people.
Hit back the highway and back up north. So much for trying the Taiwanese girl. I texted something only a Taiwanese would understand and didn't get a response, so at least the handler is not Taiwanese.[/QUOTE]I haven't seen an ad for 901 in over a week but according to Pearish (and I agree), this ad is the same people.
[URL]https://cincinnati.rubratings.com/199959[/URL]
Pearish said he tried last week and was met by one of the girls from the 901 ad and she was on her period. The ad claims 2 girls available and he didn't get to see the other one.
I was feeling horny so I reached out yesterday via text, confirmed 2 girls available. Staying on Chester, got the room number and went up. Door opened before I got to it and I was ushered in. 2 story apartment style location with a bedroom upstairs and down. The lady that opened the door was a bit thicker than I prefer, not fat, just thick. I asked about the 2nd girl and was told she was on her period. So, I bit the bullet and did the thick one. She was nice and pleasant and when it came time for BJ, she said covered, I said no cover, she said cost extra $20 tip, I agreed. She was okay, lots of licking my balls, etc. Asked if I wanted to fuck, on went the cover. As happens with me from time to time, I couldn't pop so I asked her to suck me again. She wiped me down and I stood with her on knees and got very close and she stopped and said her knees hurt. I laid on the bed and she started a HJ and I just went with it while she licked my nipples. I was thinking she would work her way back down but then it just happened and I blew a nice load. Cleaned up and left. It wasnt until I was pulling away that I thought, oops, I forgot her $20 tip!! I guess she didn't remember either. I wanst going to return at that point.
All in all, I have seen better looks wise. Performance wise, she was ok but I wasnt all that attracted to her. I prefer more petite girls. But, the squirrel got his nut anyway.
[QUOTE=TheDaytimer;5351983]You can get tested 100% anonymously. You pay online using a prepaid visa you can get for cash at Speedway. No trace back to you. You use any name when you make the appt and use a throwaway email account. They send you to LABCORP which calls you by the name you gave to the service. No I'd required. Then wait 24-36 hours and you get a full report. If you test positive, you can get meds from the same services for a small "consultation" fee. Once again you can pick them up at your local pharmacy with out an I'd as long as you pay cash.[/QUOTE]Just to add on to what daytimer said. I have done 3-4 times. Once every year basically. Everything smooth and anonymous. Only pain point is its costs around 300-400 for complete testing. Not sure about others. I test for all the bad boys out there bringing the cost to around $350.
Right. I bailed after that.
Betting that after purchasing it, she would ask for the serial number over the phone.
BS.
[QUOTE=IronBalls1;5351569]Here's an ad from rr. I was about to ask for info on her but during the time I was writing this message she asked me to pay with a prepaid gift card from walgreens. So, I think I've answered my own question.[/QUOTE]
Hello Gentlemen. Long time lurker / first time poster. After following for months and listening to all the reviews I decided to try my first time (at a non-AMP) with Annie Girl yesterday and let me say it was a delight.
I chose her because of all the positive reviews so I thought I should contribute mine.
Also, one of the things that attracted me to her is that she's not in her 20's and all the bullshit associated with that. I'm a large man in my mid 40's looking for someone laid-back and low-maintenance that I where I can establish a regular routine and don't feel embarrassed about myself and I think I hit a hole-in-one with Annie.
Being new to this part of the hobby I was a nervous wreck, though.
At first I was a little concerned because she delayed 15 mins, then very slow to open the door while I was standing along a busy street, then in-and-out of the room. Earlier in the day I blinded myself reading posts on "Monger Do's and Don'ts" and "X-number of Rules for {insert topic here}", and she ticked half those boxes so in my paranoia I was ready to leave but I realized I had psyched myself out with all that over-analyzing and stuck it out. I'm glad I did because she "made it right".
She was a delight to talk to and her technique is exquisite. After I got comfortable that no one was going to burst through the door I was finally able to stop analyzing every creak and bump in the hallway, but the first-time build up and anticipation affected the length of the visit so she promised next time will be, uh, more relaxing.
I will repeat.
Has anyone been there? It's on Dixie Highway in Erlanger. Thanks.
I have not been. I did have an exchange with her awhile back. Sounds legit but the real deal for thai massage which is a treat. Who knows until you get there. My plan was to expect a massage and see what else could be had.
[QUOTE=CloudHopper;5357894]Has anyone been there? It's on Dixie Highway in Erlanger. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Here's what I know, and from what others have shared too. She is legit, but back in the day, she was all about the HJ HE. From what I understand, that has stopped now, but I think she does for who she feels comfortable with. It's the classic story. Go, go some more, build a relationship and sense of trust, and most of the time good things happen.
It is a nice massage though. You lay completely nude, no towel. She massages both front and back. And even if you have a raging boner, she massages around it and talks about life as if there is nothing going on with you.
She has two kids, travels with them frequently, and is just trying to run a business like everybody else. She is beautiful (attractive, sexy), pleasant, and appreciates a good tip. She has put on a few lbs recently but still good looking in my book. Hope that helps. - Good Will Hunting.
[QUOTE=Usa2222;5357968]I have not been. I did have an exchange with her awhile back. Sounds legit but the real deal for thai massage which is a treat. Who knows until you get there. My plan was to expect a massage and see what else could be had.[/QUOTE]
Had a chance to stop by earlier this week. Was about 10 am, nobody there when I arrived but heard the chimes about 3 times while in the room. Got yoyo (at least that's what she said her name was), minimal English. Looked about mid 30's but tough to be sure with mask on. Nice slim body. Pretty much an old school AMP experience. Decent massage for about 25 min, flip, some light carresing and then right to the HE, no prodding necessary. OTC and UTC shirt were enjoyed. Hot towel cleanup and then she finished the last 20 min of the hour with a face, head, neck and foot massage. 60 for the hr, and normally would give 40 tip but did give 60 for the full hour and the nice post HE service.
Is she still on the east side? I tried to visit a couple weeks back and she cancelled while I was over that way saying some BS about her house and landlord. Left me confused.
[QUOTE=AlphaTek1;5356209]Hello Gentlemen. Long time lurker / first time poster. After following for months and listening to all the reviews I decided to try my first time (at a non-AMP) with Annie Girl yesterday and let me say it was a delight.
I chose her because of all the positive reviews so I thought I should contribute mine.
Also, one of the things that attracted me to her is that she's not in her 20's and all the bullshit associated with that. I'm a large man in my mid 40's looking for someone laid-back and low-maintenance that I where I can establish a regular routine and don't feel embarrassed about myself and I think I hit a hole-in-one with Annie.
Being new to this part of the hobby I was a nervous wreck, though.
At first I was a little concerned because she delayed 15 mins, then very slow to open the door while I was standing along a busy street, then in-and-out of the room. Earlier in the day I blinded myself reading posts on "Monger Do's and Don'ts" and "X-number of Rules for {insert topic here}", and she ticked half those boxes so in my paranoia I was ready to leave but I realized I had psyched myself out with all that over-analyzing and stuck it out. I'm glad I did because she "made it right".
She was a delight to talk to and her technique is exquisite. After I got comfortable that no one was going to burst through the door I was finally able to stop analyzing every creak and bump in the hallway, but the first-time build up and anticipation affected the length of the visit so she promised next time will be, uh, more relaxing.
I will repeat.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SparkyInoh;5359259]Had a chance to stop by earlier this week. Was about 10 am, nobody there when I arrived but heard the chimes about 3 times while in the room. Got yoyo (at least that's what she said her name was), minimal English. Looked about mid 30's but tough to be sure with mask on. Nice slim body. Pretty much an old school AMP experience. Decent massage for about 25 min, flip, some light carresing and then right to the HE, no prodding necessary. OTC and UTC shirt were enjoyed. Hot towel cleanup and then she finished the last 20 min of the hour with a face, head, neck and foot massage. 60 for the hr, and normally would give 40 tip but did give 60 for the full hour and the nice post HE service.[/QUOTE]Couldn't resist in Chinese yoyo means up and down movement I.
Today I went to Sakura again. I want to see Mimi, But Mimi has an appointment. She asked the new girl Cici to take care of me. Cici took me into the last room and asked me what I would like. She said it's best for half an hour. And then she said 40 dollars. After she went out, she returned and massaged for a few minutes to turn over. She asked what I wanted I said how much is the full service? She gave me the price. Then I told her the price for Mimi, she shook her head and said she wanted more, I told her. The price was too much. I gave her another offer. And then she agreed, That was one thing, We started of with oral. She was lacking enthusiasm from the beginning. The. She lay at edge of the bed for missionary. She seemed as if she was already over her day. When I arrived. I could feel a bad vibe from her. So I told her to bend over. Finished her off doggy. She was very dry. And boring. Almost robotic. I wish I would of seen Mimi instead. At least She is fun to be with. And makes things very enjoyable. I will visit Mimi again before Mimi leaves.
[QUOTE=PeteCastillone;5359697]Today I went to Sakura again. I want to see Mimi, But Mimi has an appointment. She asked the new girl Cici to take care of me. Cici took me into the last room and asked me what I would like. She said it's best for half an hour. And then she said 40 dollars. After she went out, she returned and massaged for a few minutes to turn over. She asked what I wanted I said how much is the full service? She gave me the price. Then I told her the price for Mimi, she shook her head and said she wanted more, I told her. The price was too much. I gave her another offer. And then she agreed, That was one thing, We started of with oral. She was lacking enthusiasm from the beginning. The. She lay at edge of the bed for missionary. She seemed as if she was already over her day. When I arrived. I could feel a bad vibe from her. So I told her to bend over. Finished her off doggy. She was very dry. And boring. Almost robotic. I wish I would of seen Mimi instead. At least She is fun to be with. And makes things very enjoyable. I will visit Mimi again before Mimi leaves.[/QUOTE]I would have bolted or just gotten a massage after the initial haggling. The moment one side isn't getting what they want the service goes to shit. At least in my experience.
[QUOTE=RogerOver;5360397]I would have bolted or just gotten a massage after the initial haggling. The moment one side isn't getting what they want the service goes to shit. At least in my experience.[/QUOTE]Sometimes you have to take one for the team. And.
Went back for another massage. If you're looking for good legit massage, this is a good place. There is noting else "on the table" that I can see, unless anyone else has had any luck. But good massage, just like before.
Would still like to know where the former "Cee Cee" at Ageless went to though. Was just starting to "build" with her. BTW, parking here is fairly convenient too, but no back door like some places.
[QUOTE=CharleyHorse;5339531]Does anyone know where "Cee Cee" went to? Another AMP in Cincy, maybe? I had just started going back here about 2 months ago, after a lull. Now another brief lull, I go back, and she's gone. New girl there now. She's nice but very legit. Of course, I should have read some earlier posts to save me the trouble but I did that in arrears this time. In any event, if anyone knows where she went to, feel free to PM or share here.
This has happened at other AMP's too (like Sakura, D&P, Waycross), where you build up some relations, and then they're gone. Goes to show you, make the most while you can. Stay safe all.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PeteCastillone;5359697]Today I went to Sakura again. I want to see Mimi, But Mimi has an appointment. She asked the new girl Cici to take care of me. Cici took me into the last room and asked me what I would like. She said it's best for half an hour. And then she said 40 dollars. After she went out, she returned and massaged for a few minutes to turn over. She asked what I wanted I said how much is the full service? She gave me the price. Then I told her the price for Mimi, she shook her head and said she wanted more, I told her. The price was too much. I gave her another offer. And then she agreed, That was one thing, We started of with oral. She was lacking enthusiasm from the beginning. The. She lay at edge of the bed for missionary. She seemed as if she was already over her day. When I arrived. I could feel a bad vibe from her. So I told her to bend over. Finished her off doggy. She was very dry. And boring. Almost robotic. I wish I would of seen Mimi instead. At least She is fun to be with. And makes things very enjoyable. I will visit Mimi again before Mimi leaves.[/QUOTE]This used to happen at Assol all the time. Everyone wanted to see Jenny and the other one got snubbed. Has to be difficult for the ugly duckling to always get snubbed. "Nah, not you honey who else is working?" LOL. I'm sure it happens at a lot of AMPs. But hey, it's oar of the game I guess.
[QUOTE=LurkinGround;5352949]I haven't seen an ad for 901 in over a week but according to Pearish (and I agree), this ad is the same people.
[URL]https://cincinnati.rubratings.com/199959[/URL]
Pearish said he tried last week and was met by one of the girls from the 901 ad and she was on her period. The ad claims 2 girls available and he didn't get to see the other one.
I was feeling horny so I reached out yesterday via text, confirmed 2 girls available. Staying on Chester, got the room number and went up. Door opened before I got to it and I was ushered in. 2 story apartment style location with a bedroom upstairs and down. The lady that opened the door was a bit thicker than I prefer, not fat, just thick. I asked about the 2nd girl and was told she was on her period. So, I bit the bullet and did the thick one. She was nice and pleasant and when it came time for BJ, she said covered, I said no cover, she said cost extra $20 tip, I agreed. She was okay, lots of licking my balls, etc. Asked if I wanted to fuck, on went the cover. As happens with me from time to time, I couldn't pop so I asked her to suck me again. She wiped me down and I stood with her on knees and got very close and she stopped and said her knees hurt. I laid on the bed and she started a HJ and I just went with it while she licked my nipples. I was thinking she would work her way back down but then it just happened and I blew a nice load. Cleaned up and left. It wasnt until I was pulling away that I thought, oops, I forgot her $20 tip!! I guess she didn't remember either. I wanst going to return at that point.
All in all, I have seen better looks wise. Performance wise, she was ok but I wasnt all that attracted to her. I prefer more petite girls. But, the squirrel got his nut anyway.[/QUOTE]Curious considering the pricing is effectively the same. Should I roll the dice at Sukura or with these folks?
Only issue. I'm not an ugly duckling. I just don't want the drama and bs of a relationship.
[QUOTE=Micha;5361569]Curious considering the pricing is effectively the same. Should I roll the dice at Sukura or with these folks?[/QUOTE]If you can get Mimi when its not that busy that would be the best bet currently. 901 is back to the one girl, her period is over so normal menu. She's not as into the sex as Mimi. They're both petite. The 901 is better looking by a point or two imo. And with 901 you'll have more privacy and no interruptions from guys (although potentially from the handler if she's calling or texting the girl, it does occasionally happen, and I've had some success with asking the girls to turn their phone ringer off at the start.
Went to Sakura today. The place was empty. Saw Mimi. After my last ordeal there. I was determined to get what I wanted. But I was shocked when I walked in. Nobody there. Looks like after the tax returns and stimulus checks were spent. Far less volume in the place. Anyways had a good time with Mimi. As always with her. Cici gave me dagger eyes when I asked for Mimi instead. Good time.
Paid a visit and got Cici, I was ok with it I usually like to try the different girls. She gave a decent massage, but she tried to talk me up to more money which I'm glad I didn't bc the cfs was super plain and boring. Honestly the game is so hurt right now, sakura our like only FS joint has nothing good right now. Mimi has the skills but she looks like late 40's or 50's with some bad Chinese botox. To those doing the good work and still going please update us as to when they get something new. Thanks and happy mongering.
[QUOTE=PeteCastillone;5362778]Went to Sakura today. The place was empty. Saw Mimi. After my last ordeal there. I was determined to get what I wanted. But I was shocked when I walked in. Nobody there. Looks like after the tax returns and stimulus checks were spent. Far less volume in the place. Anyways had a good time with Mimi. As always with her. Cici gave me dagger eyes when I asked for Mimi instead. Good time.[/QUOTE]Had a similiar experience. Walked in no one else there, told Cici I wanted to see Mimi and use the bathroom. While in the bathroom someone else came in and got Mimi. I went to room and was told Mimi now busy. I persisted so Mimi came in asked what I wanted and asked how much I pay her. Gave her the cash.. Told her I was here first. She went to talk to other guy and Cici came back and said you get me, she busy. I sad no thanks bring me back my money. Mimi came back and gave me my money and hiked her skirt up to show me her hairy beaver. Said come back later. While that was happening a 3rd person came in and was happy with Cici so I showed myself out and went to Goose. Cici was texting on her phone during the whole thing and seemed generally disinterested anyway. Glad I let the big head do the thinking this time.
[QUOTE=Micha;5361569]Curious considering the pricing is effectively the same. Should I roll the dice at Sukura or with these folks?[/QUOTE]At least you won't be interrupted by 3 mongers walking in.
Just spoke with lady in charge and she does not offer massage any more. Gone for good in her words.
Hello fellow mongers. I'll be visiting your fine city in a couple of days and would like a good massage with extras. Seems like Sakura is the place to go but all I can find is a steak house. Could anyone make some recommendations or point me in the right direction? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=ACruz;5365743]Hello fellow mongers. I'll be visiting your fine city in a couple of days and would like a good massage with extras. Seems like Sakura is the place to go but all I can find is a steak house. Could anyone make some recommendations or point me in the right direction? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]Sakura foot spa on Colerain but if you're looking for a good massage w / added benefits it wouldn't be my choice, more like no massage, just benefits LOL.
[QUOTE=RascalRooster;5365755]Sakura foot spa on Colerain but if you're looking for a good massage w / added benefits it wouldn't be my choice, more like no massage, just benefits LOL.[/QUOTE]Who really goes to these places for. Massage?
[QUOTE=PeteCastillone;5365987]Who really goes to these places for. Massage?[/QUOTE]That's actually my ideal. I find that the massage really gets me relaxed so I can enjoy more. Massage alone leaves me wanting more and getting straight to it is kind of weird. I think I like the pampering of getting showered and scrubbed too.
[QUOTE=RascalRooster;5365755]Sakura foot spa on Colerain but if you're looking for a good massage w / added benefits it wouldn't be my choice, more like no massage, just benefits LOL.[/QUOTE]Gotcha! Thanks!
I keep seeing posts about the 901 place, but can someone point me in the direction of a link / contact info? I tried doing a search but didn't have much luck. Thanks in advance!
[QUOTE=PeteCastillone;5365987]Who really goes to these places for. Massage?[/QUOTE]My ideal also is to get a firm back massage that leads to soft touch and then works me up for the rest. I've had a bad back and love the tension release in all ways.
Lv.
That happened to me once, and Mimi said someone called ahead and made an appointment with her. I chose to pass on Cici (had a previous visit with her, and I just enjoy seeing Mimi more).
[QUOTE=BelowMe;5363379]Had a similiar experience. Walked in no one else there, told Cici I wanted to see Mimi and use the bathroom. While in the bathroom someone else came in and got Mimi. I went to room and was told Mimi now busy. I persisted so Mimi came in asked what I wanted and asked how much I pay her. Gave her the cash.. Told her I was here first. She went to talk to other guy and Cici came back and said you get me, she busy. I sad no thanks bring me back my money. Mimi came back and gave me my money and hiked her skirt up to show me her hairy beaver. Said come back later. While that was happening a 3rd person came in and was happy with Cici so I showed myself out and went to Goose. Cici was texting on her phone during the whole thing and seemed generally disinterested anyway. Glad I let the big head do the thinking this time.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ACruz;5366198]That's actually my ideal. I find that the massage really gets me relaxed so I can enjoy more. Massage alone leaves me wanting more and getting straight to it is kind of weird. I think I like the pampering of getting showered and scrubbed too.[/QUOTE]100% agree, my best is entering with a smile, nice hug and kiss, going to the shower for a pleasant rundown and scrubbing all locations (prefer the hand wash, don't use the luffa as it is public). Start with a BBBJ and tuma while there and off to the massage. This makes the massage part very enjoyable.
Then the massage just sets the mood for 69, multiple positions and if you're lucky finishing in the 3rd hole. Just my preference and I have only found the pkg in Florida, but then it makes anticipating the trip nice too. Nothing in Ohio compares that I have found except an escort with the pkg discussed upfront at her hotel or yours.
But then to each there own.
[QUOTE=PeteCastillone;5365987]Who really goes to these places for. Massage?[/QUOTE]I have always enjoyed the massage. For many years I have frequented AMP's from Ohio to Florida. Many massage parlors have Therapists with real massage skills.
I often read reports about older women working at these places and just SMH. I know several older women that earn north of 60 K every year just providing massage without even offering a HE. There are many middle aged and older men that line up to enjoy a quality Chinese massage. I often go for 60 or even a 90 minutes of peaceful and soothing pampering, and many Asian women are experts at making you feel good.
Don't misunderstand me, I get serious yellow fever and there are massage parlors especially in Florida where I can enjoy a real PSE with 1 or 2 beautiful young women. I know places in Florida where a beautiful 25 year old will give you a table shower using her body to scrub you all over and then whisper in your ear that she wants to fuck you.
I think that to fully enjoy the AMP experience, I go to different places for different reasons.
[QUOTE=CEJ0044;5323963]I have visited a few times due to the location being on my drive from work to home. I have been successful twice but also unsuccessful 3 times. I was successful with 2 different girls. And one of the girls I was successful with, I was later unsuccessful with. Makes no sense to me. Only thing I can think is that they are providing extras only when the boss is gone. And extras is only a HJ for me. But a friend told me he visited and tipped $70 for a BJ. Kind of hard to believe him, but he's very active in the game so it could be true.[/QUOTE]I can't figure this place out. I went the first time with no luck at all, after a buddy told me he was consistently getting BBBJ's, but I might have to show my face around there a few times before anything happened. I went in the evening the second time and was able to get a HJ, so I thought I had made huge progress in being able to get more then next time (I gave her a $50 tip that day on a $60 hour massage). I went back and saw the same woman two more times over the past couple of weeks and had zero luck. I think I'm going to give it one more try before I give up on that place. My buddy hasn't been in a while, so he wasn't helpful. Anyone else had any luck?