Philly Sugar

Kayloveslife.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/67db1f2a-951c-48fe-b9a9-8a4349cac648?&locale=en_US[/URL]

Cassixoxo.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/c461ef78-e2b2-452d-a4a1-7dc1b287ac4c[/URL]

[QUOTE=ReadyToTumble;5620212]Kayloveslife.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/67db1f2a-951c-48fe-b9a9-8a4349cac648?&locale=en_US[/URL]

Cassixoxo.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/c461ef78-e2b2-452d-a4a1-7dc1b287ac4c[/URL][/QUOTE]I got a response from Cassi but that was it. I have a feeling she's on the higher end. She's hot so why not.

Finally heard back from her and she wanted 450! She said she would take less but than ghosted. Bye Felicia LOL. Some of these girls are a bit unrealistic (especially with the gift lists and $3,000 purses haha) and IMHO guys that will spend that kinda money are only fueling the situation.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/4acc0574-5287-4d8e-8eea-a8b87f016a5f[/URL]

[QUOTE=ReadyToTumble;5620201]We talked and she ghosted me too after asking about the club.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BurbsMonger;5619268]If I can add my 2 cents, I think we need to clarify "if it's worth it". We all know different strokes for different folks. If you are looking to find one reliable, value or low financial need, no mental issues or bad habits who is half your age and a 10 and local, etc etc etc, that can be a challenging task now and take up a ton of time and lots of aggravation. If you don't mind putting your Johnson into any hole at any price that's easy on SA.

For me personally, SA was worth it several years ago as I have found 2 excellent SB's who really are unicorns. Pre-pandemic and OF craze, it was easy finding hot college girls at reasonable price points. Nowadays, SA has not been worth it for me as the number of college aged young ladies has dropped significantly while financial needs have escalated disproportionately to services offered. In addition, the number of scams, flakes, bait and switch and virtual only SB's represents the majority of profiles these days IMHO.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in while. There are definitely diamonds in the rough on SA, as well as other sites. The question is, for me, how much time is worth it digging for them on top of the 99/ month subscription fee..[/QUOTE]5 years ago these girls would take 60 for bbjcim and 100 for BBFS. It's was incredible.

Every SB on SA was looking to meet in person. No scammers or pros.

Now it's a cest pool of scams, pros and overpriced SBs. Even the fat girls are getting paid!

Straight to the point. Pictures are better, quick in and out.

What's Miranda's profile name or do you have a hyperlink?

Be Safe.

[QUOTE=PinHead11;5621952]Straight to the point. Pictures are better, quick in and out.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PinHead11;5621952]Straight to the point. Pictures are better, quick in and out.[/QUOTE]Do you have a pic?

How much was she?

Any info:

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/78ba2fe3-3428-4c2e-9427-f1957df2d309[/URL]

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/be0b2a37-89c0-427d-99f1-116e609c0578[/URL]

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/ec68ba78-e6ae-4c07-9bef-29935fb5e649[/URL]

What I know:

This girl is good to go for PPM $$$No real rules bbbfcip if you're clean.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/417f93be-7dfa-4325-8d00-74bdd5e120be[/URL]

Just wants attention. Unwilling to meet YMMV.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/f8073b4d-28c4-406b-8733-d7798f7e6544[/URL]

Sensitive about a 'review' DO NOT MENTION! Nicest pussy I've felt in decades. Really hot vigorous fuck. Super chill. $$$$ YMMV.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/2e0c05c7-6028-4771-9cdb-fe8941b743e3[/URL]

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/be0b2a37-89c0-427d-99f1-116e609c0578[/URL]

Has anyone has any experience with this lady?

[QUOTE=BuffBill75;5625705][URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/be0b2a37-89c0-427d-99f1-116e609c0578[/URL]

Has anyone has any experience with this lady?[/QUOTE]She hit me up last night asking about meeting this week. I responded but haven't heard back. When I know I'll report back.

I posted about here a little while back. We messaged back and forth, but got no where. I got some pm's that she has a bf or handler who may be up to good so I stop pursuing.

[QUOTE=BuffBill75;5625705][URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/be0b2a37-89c0-427d-99f1-116e609c0578[/URL]

Has anyone has any experience with this lady?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Runner8;5621559]Finally heard back from her and she wanted 450! She said she would take less but than ghosted. Bye Felicia LOL. Some of these girls are a bit unrealistic (especially with the gift lists and $3,000 purses haha) and IMHO guys that will spend that kinda money are only fueling the situation.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/4acc0574-5287-4d8e-8eea-a8b87f016a5f[/URL][/QUOTE]She's a thief. I keep a little extra, easily accessed but not in plain sight, for those moments when you need a bit more. After round one, like a minute's inattention was all it took for her to snatch it and bolt.

I really don't understand why chicks do that; they can get [B]so[/B] much more if they just take their allowance every week like a good girl.

Thanks for the additional intel Kenny G.

Runner.

[QUOTE=KennyG;5627873]She's a thief. I keep a little extra, easily accessed but not in plain sight, for those moments when you need a bit more. After round one, like a minute's inattention was all it took for her to snatch it and bolt.

I really don't understand why chicks do that; they can get [B]so[/B] much more if they just take their allowance every week like a good girl.[/QUOTE]

Hey guys, let me introduce you to this princess. She tried to start talking about ppm on this site but I never do that. Moved to Text where she informed me that she does not meet for less than $1,000 ppm. Yes you heard it. That certainly is the record times two LOL. I was tempted to send back some colorful response but resisted the urge. The last thing I need is her doing some kind of negative report and risk a possible ban. In these types of situations I have learned to LMAO and quietly walk away. I thought you would get a kick out of this one! So the search continues.

Runner.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/bc475e4a-0641-4021-9dd2-eb0033c121e9[/URL]

[QUOTE=BurbsMonger;5626409]I posted about here a little while back. We messaged back and forth, but got no where. I got some pm's that she has a bf or handler who may be up to good so I stop pursuing.[/QUOTE]Thanks brother. I'll move on. But damn it's hard to pass up that body.

[QUOTE=PokerShark11;5625524]Any info:

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/78ba2fe3-3428-4c2e-9427-f1957df2d309[/URL]

[/QUOTE]I went back and forth with her for a bit. She switched numbers a couple of times but I think I finally got her real number because it was searchable and came back with data that led to a real identity. She seems pretty nice but into a lot of different thing and very busy. My opinion is that she is as much of an amateur as I am at this. I got distracted by some other things but will try to set up a meeting soon. I got the impression that she was willing to do a meet and greet without payment to sort things out.

[QUOTE=ReadyToTumble;5620199]No intel but I have had girls come on strong with the dirty talk and were for real and other ghost me. Play it out.

By any chance did she say " Phone Home Elliot" . LOL.[/QUOTE]Yes so I let it play out and met up with her. I'm sure every guy on this board has had the experience of the girl not meeting your expectations that I did. She only has the one picture and the additional that she sent was taken from the same angle. So a lot thinker than I usually like but she was really nice and easy to talk to over dinner. One thing led to another and I ended up back at her place. Nice and really into things but not my type. She's looking for a more routine thing so I guess she threw me a freebie. I sent her a message later that something long term with her probably wasn't for me and there was no blow back. I think had sensed it already. Anyway if you like her and meet her, If you want the long term thing with someone pretty laid back, she's the one for you!

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;5634868]Yes so I let it play out and met up with her. I'm sure every guy on this board has had the experience of the girl not meeting your expectations that I did. She only has the one picture and the additional that she sent was taken from the same angle. So a lot thinker than I usually like but she was really nice and easy to talk to over dinner. One thing led to another and I ended up back at her place. Nice and really into things but not my type. She's looking for a more routine thing so I guess she threw me a freebie. I sent her a message later that something long term with her probably wasn't for me and there was no blow back. I think had sensed it already. Anyway if you like her and meet her, If you want the long term thing with someone pretty laid back, she's the one for you![/QUOTE]Not sure if she "threw you a freebie"? Prolly more like she was chill about the $ aspect and didn't want things to be transactional. Proper etiquette would suggest you left her an envelop with a "gift" on her night stand. She sounds kinda passive, but perhaps is seething that she didn't get any sugar.

ALWAYS ask about the sugar and define the situation up front! Don't assume anything. Don't cheat these girls.

Have heard many stories like yours from girls. They were circumspect about the sugar part, but definitely wanted it yet the dude stiffed them. So it makes girls jaded going forward and many drop out. Also most girls ARE looking for a repeat situation and they all tell about guys who promise that and then ghost after first date. Another way girls are made to feel like a prostitute that turns them off. While it IS prostitution, what makes it palatable to many is the illusion of "gifts" or "help" or sugar and not pay to play. So I try to find that balance and feed the girls psyche as she needs.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5635306]Not sure if she "threw you a freebie"? Prolly more like she was chill about the $ aspect and didn't want things to be transactional. Proper etiquette would suggest you left her an envelop with a "gift" on her night stand. She sounds kinda passive, but perhaps is seething that she didn't get any sugar.

ALWAYS ask about the sugar and define the situation up front! Don't assume anything. Don't cheat these girls.

Have heard many stories like yours from girls. They were circumspect about the sugar part, but definitely wanted it yet the dude stiffed them. So it makes girls jaded going forward and many drop out. Also most girls ARE looking for a repeat situation and they all tell about guys who promise that and then ghost after first date. Another way girls are made to feel like a prostitute that turns them off. While it IS prostitution, what makes it palatable to many is the illusion of "gifts" or "help" or sugar and not pay to play. So I try to find that balance and feed the girls psyche as she needs.[/QUOTE]Good Points, I do know where she lives and tis the season. So maybe I'll try to drop something off for her. I said maybe a freebie because I did spend about $ on dinner and drinks for her.

I'd say relatively new at this but I had a great arrangement about 10 years ago that last 2-3 years. We still keep in touch today even though she moved out of state 6 or 7 years ago. She has even come over to the house in the last couple of years and sends me holiday cards. But in that arrangement, I had met her and another girl at a private party were things were pretty spelled out. I made an arrangement with girl 1 who was shrewd negotiator but provided almost no value, so a rip off. Girl 2 who was better looking but more innocent gave me her number one night when I gave her a ride home, met up with me once and decided she wanted in. All she asked was that I pay her the same and look at her the same way I looked at Girl 1. Girl 1 got quickly dropped and Girl 2 was a star! The kind of woman that gets stopped on the streets of center city Philadelphia and asked about how she looks so good. Anyway how do you guys do it? When I start off I always feel like I offer too much. I guess I could do the "How much do you usually get" and then negotiate down when I get a ridiculous number.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;5636840]I'd say relatively new at this but I had a great arrangement about 10 years ago that last 2-3 years. We still keep in touch today even though she moved out of state 6 or 7 years ago. She has even come over to the house in the last couple of years and sends me holiday cards. But in that arrangement, I had met her and another girl at a private party were things were pretty spelled out. I made an arrangement with girl 1 who was shrewd negotiator but provided almost no value, so a rip off. Girl 2 who was better looking but more innocent gave me her number one night when I gave her a ride home, met up with me once and decided she wanted in. All she asked was that I pay her the same and look at her the same way I looked at Girl 1. Girl 1 got quickly dropped and Girl 2 was a star! The kind of woman that gets stopped on the streets of center city Philadelphia and asked about how she looks so good. Anyway how do you guys do it? When I start off I always feel like I offer too much. I guess I could do the "How much do you usually get" and then negotiate down when I get a ridiculous number.[/QUOTE]My first question is "how much have you gotten in the past". Knowing that they will inflate what they really got, my second statement is ALWAYS something to the effect that it's more than I'm able to provide, and try and push her to a monthly amount that is basically 25% less than a weekly or ppm. I thinks it's all about selling to them the consistency and the chance to get to know each other / reduce risk / maintain your own private lives without the strings of a bf / gf relationship. The ones that ask for rediculous amounts I generally blow off. What I'm referring to is the college or younger female that needs consistent help with bills. There is not an exact science to any of this. Good luck.

I always treat the bowl like I buy a new car. There is always the MSRP that we know is never the final price and always too high. There is the invoice price that is a low price but not necessarily the lowest because of dealer hold backs and other incentives. The key for me, I am always 100% prepared to walk away if I don't get what I want and buy another model or go to another dealer. I never give the dealer what I can afford or what I want to offer. You make the first move and you will lose a majority of the time. Just like the car market, inventory is low but there are deals to be had. I am fortunate to have 2 very reliable unicorn SB's that are extremely affordable and solid knockouts. Sometimes I want to test drive a different make and model. It takes work and good negotiation skills to uncover them and also timing. You never know when that 500 accessory goes on sale for 300 because nobody is buying it at the high mark up.

Keep at it Myth. I may have one for you that we talked about last week or so. I am seeing her again this week.

Be Safe.

[QUOTE=WillieZee914;5637018]My first question is "how much have you gotten in the past". Knowing that they will inflate what they really got, my second statement is ALWAYS something to the effect that it's more than I'm able to provide, and try and push her to a monthly amount that is basically 25% less than a weekly or ppm. I thinks it's all about selling to them the consistency and the chance to get to know each other / reduce risk / maintain your own private lives without the strings of a bf / gf relationship. The ones that ask for rediculous amounts I generally blow off. What I'm referring to is the college or younger female that needs consistent help with bills. There is not an exact science to any of this. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

I have had decent success with negotiating once I get there, but I struggle with my first move. How do you cut through the bullshit without scaring them off? Obviously there are some who actively seek ppm (including the high volume ones) and they are easy to talk to. But what about those who are open to it but don't want to admit it right away? I don't have time to pretend to be interested in what they have to say nor is that necessarily effective. FWIW I am relatively young, average looking and only have one pic. Maybe it's one of those factors (and not what I say) that is the problem.

For me, I talk about trust, consistency, and reliability. I never mention ppm or allowance until we are off the site. I let them know I do ppm until we have trust and open communication. Most of these ladies want a steady stream of revenue with someone they can count on week to week. This approach has worked consistently for me. Some ladies refuse ppm, I say good luck and move to the next one, it's that simple. For those that refuse it but might be open to it, I leave it up to them with a hypothetical and say " if you wanted ppm, how much are you thinking?" and then let them know once we establish trust we can move to an allowance. However, the allowance will never come because they will be gone, I will be bored, etc etc.

This approach worked for me with my 2 long term SB's and both are perfectly happy with ppm. I have been with both of them for over 2 years and yes they know about each and yes we have done 3 somes together. Neither have asked for an allowance as we are very consistent seeing each other and because we have trust there are perks for each, gifts, mini vacations, dinners, emergency money etc etc.

Best of luck and Be Safe.

[QUOTE=Krott26;5638070]I have had decent success with negotiating once I get there, but I struggle with my first move. How do you cut through the bullshit without scaring them off? Obviously there are some who actively seek ppm (including the high volume ones) and they are easy to talk to. But what about those who are open to it but don't want to admit it right away? I don't have time to pretend to be interested in what they have to say nor is that necessarily effective. FWIW I am relatively young, average looking and only have one pic. Maybe it's one of those factors (and not what I say) that is the problem.[/QUOTE]

Just in the interest of sharing information. This one told me that she just wanted someone to pay her rent ($1400).

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/19241bfb-9d8d-4b79-bb9c-a0d580df0c1a[/URL]

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;5641200]Just in the interest of sharing information. This one told me that she just wanted someone to pay her rent ($1400).

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/19241bfb-9d8d-4b79-bb9c-a0d580df0c1a[/URL][/QUOTE]That's a pretty penny to pay for no intimate time. Wonder how she would help out for that tidy chunk of change.

Looking for 400. Hosts in Northeast. Wouldn't discuss less.

Too many others to pay that amount.

https://members.seeking.com/member/e7a15249-47c8-462c-ac3d-7d7a235d8440

I noticed it's rare here for someone to post SBs with whom they have had success. People are saying they have a few gems they have seen for while but give no info. [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

Why would we give you that information when you have posted, wait for it, wait for it, 2 fucking posts. You have not earned that right yet, at least not from me.

Be Safe.

I noticed it's rare here for someone to post SBs with whom they have had success. People are saying they have a few gems they have seen for while but give no info.

[QUOTE=BurbsMonger;5643688]Why would we give you that information when you have posted, wait for it, wait for it, 2 fucking posts. You have not earned that right yet, at least not from me.

Be Safe.

I noticed it's rare here for someone to post SBs with whom they have had success. People are saying they have a few gems they have seen for while but give no info.[/QUOTE]I'm not talking about private information. There are plenty of links here to seeking arrangements. But barely any to legit ones. Why not give links to the good ones. People still have to do the work contacting them. The reason I haven't posted is because I never signed in until recently. I was a member but just lurked. And I did bring up a good one but can no longer find her on SA. So if anyone knew about her and posted a link it would have been to a good SB, which, like I said, is rare here. I know of another good one but am waiting for others to post ones they know.

[QUOTE=Mg995;5643733]I'm not talking about private information. There are plenty of links here to seeking arrangements. But barely any to legit ones. Why not give links to the good ones. People still have to do the work contacting them. The reason I haven't posted is because I never signed in until recently. I was a member but just lurked. And I did bring up a good one but can no longer find her on SA. So if anyone knew about her and posted a link it would have been to a good SB, which, like I said, is rare here. I know of another good one but am waiting for others to post ones they know.[/QUOTE]Umm, You have total 3 posts. This one where you complain about getting information, telling us how you would share but are waiting. Your second post about how you want us to share and your first post asking about a SB named Linda.

Do you see the pattern? You ask but you don't give.

There is information given here. If your asking for exact amounts and phone numbers most times you will not get that. A true SB does not think of themselves as a escort or anything close to it and need to be treated as such. They are picky with who they date. Some date only one guy, some may date a couple guys but most aren't a revolving door like you find on STG or list crawler.

I'm not gong to post publicly a SB phone number or exact details of my date with her. I don't know you. You might call her and say "so and so went out with you and did xxx for SSS I want the same deal. " She is now horrified and disappears.

I would suggest you read the pages of the Richmond SB here on USAG and try to get a better understanding.

Good luck,

PH.

[QUOTE=Krott26;5638070]I have had decent success with negotiating once I get there, but I struggle with my first move. How do you cut through the bullshit without scaring them off? Obviously there are some who actively seek ppm (including the high volume ones) and they are easy to talk to. But what about those who are open to it but don't want to admit it right away? I don't have time to pretend to be interested in what they have to say nor is that necessarily effective. FWIW I am relatively young, average looking and only have one pic. Maybe it's one of those factors (and not what I say) that is the problem.[/QUOTE]I always ask them how much they expect once off the site. In the negotiation the first person that throws out a price is at a disadvantage.

[QUOTE=BuffBill75;5644316]I always ask them how much they expect once off the site. In the negotiation the first person that throws out a price is at a disadvantage.[/QUOTE]Hi,

I take each meet individually and not sure I agree here.I try not to talk about the money till we meet. I am always dressed nice and willing to put time into a meet. If it doesn't work out so be it.

If I am meeting with a girl who I am pretty sure is going to ask for more than I am willing to spend I will come out and give a amount maybe 50 less than I will go for, lets say I am OK with 300. I will say 250 At this time she knows where its at. She can counter with a amount that I can accept or walk away from. I will not go back and forth as I feel it isn't conducive to a good arrangement an sets a tone for a transaction relationship. If she says 'oh no, I usually get xxx' I tell her she is very pretty and that she is out of my league. If your not creepy, dressed nice and can hold a good conversation more than likely she will adjust what she is looking for.

Remember she isn't a escort. She wants to think of herself as a nice girl who just needs a bit of help.

The initial amount I offer is all based on how I read her. If she is a bit chubby or what have you I will offer less. The 23 yr old spinner platinum blonde cutie won't give me that wiggle room as she will get the best offers.

In this environment where it seems girls are asking for excess amounts I would rather give a amount than have her lay out some outlandish number like 500 that is just too much to even counter offer.

I just like anyone don't want to spend more than I have to and if I see promise that I want to see her for a while I will discuss a different amount for either multiple dates per week, extended time together or something like that.



PH.

[QUOTE=PinHead11;5644300]Umm, You have total 3 posts. This one where you complain about getting information, telling us how you would share but are waiting. Your second post about how you want us to share and your first post asking about a SB named Linda.

Do you see the pattern? You ask but you don't give.

There is information given here. If your asking for exact amounts and phone numbers most times you will not get that. A true SB does not think of themselves as a escort or anything close to it and need to be treated as such. They are picky with who they date. Some date only one guy, some may date a couple guys but most aren't a revolving door like you find on STG or list crawler.

I'm not gong to post publicly a SB phone number or exact details of my date with her. I don't know you. You might call her and say "so and so went out with you and did xxx for SSS I want the same deal. " She is now horrified and disappears..[/QUOTE]I'm not looking for private information as I stated in the first sentence of my post which you quoted. Since you bring up pattern yes I do see a pattern. The pattern is providing links to SB profiles who for whatever reason do not work out while rarely (note I say rarely, I'm not saying never) providing links to the those who do. That was my only point in my first post on the matter. It had nothing to do with private information. If you want to criticize me for not posting any I know fair enough, but it doesn't disprove what I just said. I don't want to hijack this thread so won't post anymore about it unless what I said is misconstrued.

[QUOTE=Mg995;5646017]I'm not looking for private information as I stated in the first sentence of my post which you quoted. Since you bring up pattern yes I do see a pattern. The pattern is providing links to SB profiles who for whatever reason do not work out while rarely (note I say rarely, I'm not saying never) providing links to the those who do. That was my only point in my first post on the matter. It had nothing to do with private information. If you want to criticize me for not posting any I know fair enough, but it doesn't disprove what I just said. I don't want to hijack this thread so won't post anymore about it unless what I said is misconstrued.[/QUOTE]There are UTR escorts on SA, but genuine SBs are a different than escorts. They date a guy, or maybe a couple of guys, regularly, they don't just do random PPM dates with everyone who messages them. I have been seeing an SB for over a year. If we stop seeing each other and she's back on SA, I'll provide the appropriate recommendation, but there's nothing for me to say about her right now because she's not looking for anyone else.

I have shared offsite some quality SB's to legitimate posters and senior members. In return, they have shared as well. The pattern and lesson here is, if you give to the board and add value, you will get value and intel from the board. It's quite simple. Not sure why mongers don't grasp this concept.

Be Safe.

[QUOTE=SdPhilly;5646152]There are UTR escorts on SA, but genuine SBs are a different than escorts. They date a guy, or maybe a couple of guys, regularly, they don't just do random PPM dates with everyone who messages them. I have been seeing an SB for over a year. If we stop seeing each other and she's back on SA, I'll provide the appropriate recommendation, but there's nothing for me to say about her right now because she's not looking for anyone else.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BurbsMonger;5646650]I have shared offsite some quality SB's to legitimate posters and senior members. In return, they have shared as well. The pattern and lesson here is, if you give to the board and add value, you will get value and intel from the board. It's quite simple. Not sure why mongers don't grasp this concept.

Be Safe.[/QUOTE][I][color=red]Tongue in Cheek![/color][/I]

Youse just don't get it, do youse? Why should I HAVE TO share anything, the internet is here, it is free and I am [U]entitled[/U] to any answer I want just for asking! That's the way it's suppose to work. FREE information! Anyone who thinks otherwise must be an OG! Enough with this "share and share alike" stuff, just give me the info I want! You're NOT my parents!

And then you act like this is some kind of exclusive "club" or something? I mean I can walk in any place and get free pussy, why do I need to "prove" myself to a bunch of guys who couldn't get laid in a convention of horny women?

[I]I hope the intended humour resonates and those that need to it, see how ridiculous this looks?[/I]

Does vanilla Visa work as payment for site?

Not anymore.

[QUOTE=GuidoPitHair;5649500]Does vanilla Visa work as payment for site?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GuidoPitHair;5649500]Does vanilla Visa work as payment for site?[/QUOTE]You need the One Vanilla Visa Card. Plus you need to wait 24-hrs after loading it before trying it on the SA site. Worked for me recently.