The Woodshed

Pervnerd48, you did a good job sir.

RedTalon, NPR is as center as news reporting can get. They get attacked from both sides constantly. Furthermore, if NPR biases concern you then don't even bother with CNN, FOX or MSNBC. Just because you dislike to heard something it doesn't make it not true. We need a common truth, it is unacceptable to label every news fake or bias when is not convenient.

Inflation and energy prices. I say get used to it because Putin will never let Ukraine tap into their gas / oil reserves and even less join NATO. I just learned the Donbas is part of those areas home to the new gas reserves and is a coincident the Russians are so adamant about that region.

[QUOTE=RedTalon;5947732]Pulled all that from biased media sources, lots of work for nothing. NPR, seriously? Biden is a walking gas bag on puppet strings.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BeachDan9999;5943934]Ok I'm all ears. Explain, support and defend record inflation, record gas prices, record homelessness, open borders, criminals not being prosecuted. I have two masters degrees. Please make an intelligent defense using stats. Not emotions. I'll be waiting.[/QUOTE]Tweets are now much kinder.

[QUOTE=MikeEbanks;5947806]Pervnerd48, you did a good job sir.

RedTalon, NPR is as center as news reporting can get. They get attacked from both sides constantly. Furthermore, if NPR biases concern you then don't even bother with CNN, FOX or MSNBC. Just because you dislike to heard something it doesn't make it not true. We need a common truth, it is unacceptable to label every news fake or bias when is not convenient.

Inflation and energy prices. I say get used to it because Putin will never let Ukraine tap into their gas / oil reserves and even less join NATO. I just learned the Donbas is part of those areas home to the new gas reserves and is a coincident the Russians are so adamant about that region.[/QUOTE]Thanks, boss. I appreciate it.

And hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. If someone read this and went "NPR! It's CLEARLY biased! I mean, there's not much I can do.

I'm just trying my best to point out that the challenges out there are great, and are going to take sophisticated thought and action. And that thought and action will have to be bipartisan.

I know, I'm a MONSTER.

[QUOTE=PervNerd48;5948180]Thanks, boss. I appreciate it.

And hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. If someone read this and went "NPR! It's CLEARLY biased! I mean, there's not much I can do.

I'm just trying my best to point out that the challenges out there are great, and are going to take sophisticated thought and action. And that thought and action will have to be bipartisan.

I know, I'm a MONSTER.[/QUOTE]It does not take sophisticated thought or action. It does take common sense. I suggest the reading of Milton Friedman or Thomas Sowell. It won't convince you of anything, but I hope you find their points on history, economics, and government interesting.

[QUOTE=PervNerd48;5947370]I'll take inflation. Someone else can take the others. (By the way, you demand stats for verification, but you keep saying "record" without showing your stats. For example, we're nowhere near record inflation- inflation rates in the 70's were far worse. Inflation happens in a capitalist economy.).

There's a number of factors, very little to do with Biden (or rather Biden, a deadlocked Senate that lets him do very little, and a mostly Republican set of governors):

* The war in the Ukraine has jacked up fuel prices, despite Biden releasing barrels from the strategic reserve. This one's going to take a while, and it's not going to end well. And now that Europe has decided to enter a partial embargo against Russian oil, gas prices are probably going to stay high, because there will be increased demand for the non-Russian fuel out there.).

Source: [URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-hungary-european-union-d0d4144c84749f84676a2f41b03b2ad4[/URL].

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-pledge-support-ukraine-not-ready-with-new-russia-sanctions-2022-05-30/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/business/dealbook/russia-embargo-oil-prices.html[/URL]

* We also had a severe supply chain crisis caused by a number of factors-.

The pandemic, shutting down of overseas factories (especially chip factories, and since chip factories cost a fortune to build, and all of the supply lines are overseas, you can't snap your fingers and make it better).

And shifts in demand.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/business/shortages-supply-chain.html[/URL]

[URL]https://www.computerworld.com/article/3648349/about-that-alarming-chip-shortage-dont-count-on-new-fab-plants-to-help-quickly.html[/URL]

* Trump's failure to address the Chinese trade deficit (after the 2018 agreement, in which China pledged to increase the purchase of US goods and actually decreased said purchases).

[URL]https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-china-watcher/2022/01/13/from-momentous-to-meh-the-phase-one-trade-deal-letdown-495705[/URL]

[URL]https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/08/07/more-pain-than-gain-how-the-us-china-trade-war-hurt-america/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/china-stiffed-trump-trade-agreement-exports[/URL]

[URL]https://reason.com/2022/02/09/trumps-phase-one-trade-deal-with-china-was-a-total-failure-just-like-the-trade-war/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/02/15/1079761270/china-promised-trump-a-better-deal-for-america-it-didnt-actually-deliver[/URL]

(The reason for so many links is that I wanted to show you that Trump's handling of China has been panned by everyone- left-wing sources like NPR, right-wing sources like Brookings and Fox Business, and libertarians like Reason.).

* Housing prices are rising like crazy everywhere for a lot of reasons. Here in Jacksonville, we have a number of factors- rising population as people move away from colder areas of the US due to the increase in remote work, insufficient housing inventory to meet the demand due to not only the pandemic, but the lack of new housing starts since the crash of 2008, and a mostly hands-off local and state government who is more concerned about whether your kids are taught about black mathematicians and Disney not kissing the governor's ass than they are the one-year 30% increase in rents here. And hedge funds owning 25% of all single-family housing here is a big problem, because they're holding out for high rents and high sale prices, artificially driving up housing costs.

And that rent increase doesn't just affect renters. Renters make up one-third of Jacksonville's population. Rent doesn't stay in Jacksonville. Most landlords of apartments and single-family dwellings are out-of-state. Those rent increases mean that more money is leaving Jacksonville, and not being spent in the local economy. Got a local business? You might own your home, but your business may be impacted by the lack of demand caused by the lack of local funds.

[URL]https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/08/12/census-jacksonville-added-more-than-100000-residents-in-last-10-years/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2017/03/23/jacksonville-s-population-growth-speeds-third-year-row/15745028007/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.wokv.com/news/investigates/priced-out-jax-25-all-single-family-homes-duval-county-owned-by-investment-companies/24QOZ6HJUNECZKKQ7A5TOC4IJM/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-no-5-in-nation-in-rent-increase[/URL]

[URL]https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2022/01/21/i-team-rent-increases-in-jacksonville-are-among-the-highest-in-the-country/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089174630/housing-shortage-new-home-construction-supply-chain[/URL]

[URL]https://www.freddiemac.com/research/insight/20210507-housing-supply[/URL]

Here's the good news: according to economists, the Fed's tightening of the money supply will lead to a drop in inflation over the next few months. Paul Krugman wrote about this here:

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/opinion/inflation-prices-stagflation.html[/URL]

So there's a lot of factors for inflation, nearly none of which is Biden's fault. In fact, Biden is trying to get Congress to pass a number of initiatives to reduce inflation:

[URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/10/the-biden-harris-inflation-plan-lowering-costs-and-lowering-the-deficit/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/business/economy/biden-inflation.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DIDm8aiO4IGImG9lzWIqdoYN002iXcTt5NPblqRfp8yuZDPktrDQm0p5_O0LI0HxIIk6PhFGUnw8CKGrki7T7hamT-drguyePk4k_DbWLtXLjY1SArOF4xpZZ6dgusjnICz_zGF7R0ycA-ial6fu1yQzsDZCGOtvH6WV4paJjdMEaqukRhUPpZWDrTgdeY97sAFQ1TAl7CR3t0in0uvJIeYJhEefaicGNzPZb2kr4TCWd3LYm2BpZXR4Lck7pisb6lugWV0HnyLwLyvAHukA5zMit1&smid=url-share[/URL]

The right is pressing him to do more. Some of this is pressing him to do things they know he won't or can't do, like busting truck driver unions and reversing some of the environmental policies he put into place:

[URL]https://nypost.com/2022/05/11/what-biden-can-do-to-lower-inflation-but-refuses-to/[/URL]

We'll see what happens. Remember, Biden, despite being painted as a left-winger, isn't really one. He's always been a centrist his entire career. But the Republicans smell blood, and want to see Democrats lose seats in the House and Senate in the midterms (just as Democrats want to gain seats), so they're going to block any efforts Biden takes to address inflation.

So there you go. Did I give you enough sources and information?[/QUOTE]All I can say is outstanding work!

It will take me a bit to digest the sources, but I certainly appreciate the effort in you response. If we all could make our discussions verifiable (by at least something,(news sources, papers, studies etc) as you did, perhaps we can find middle ground and find a path forward for all. We have some complex issues in the country / world.

Thanks again!! I will prepare a rebuttal.

[quote=mikeebanks;5947806]pervnerd48, you did a good job sir.

Redtalon, npr is as center as news reporting can get. [/quote]Rotflmfao.

[QUOTE=BeachDan9999;5943934]Ok I'm all ears. Explain, support and defend record inflation, record gas prices, record homelessness, open borders, criminals not being prosecuted. I have two masters degrees. Please make an intelligent defense using stats. Not emotions. I'll be waiting.[/QUOTE]Hate to jump in during mid debate. One that seems like its surprisingly civil last few posts despite the topic, but its a pet peeve of mine so had to say something: Stating an 'appeal to credentials' fallacy. Or 'False Ethos appeal'. While foreshadowing you expect his reply may be a 'Pathos Appeal'.

I've met, known personally, and worked with people with masters and even doctorate degrees that are pretty dense outside of the field they studied. And can be just as biasedly misinformed (or deeply rooted loyal), to social and political ideologies they have formed.
Some was to a point it was shockingly different than the level of intellect you assumed they must possess to process complex situations. Tribalism in pack mentality for (insert preformed stance here) made them approach it with a [i]Seeking confirmation, not information[/i] when looking into info about things. I. E. Starting from "Here is what I think, now how can I get here from what I can find about it".

[B]Not saying YOU are.[/B]

Just pointing out intellect isn't always an indicator of wisdom, or inherent ability to be unbiased in conclusion.

I mean would me saying this matter in any debate?: "I have a Bachelors in architecture, and masters in a computer science. So when we talk about politics, keep that in mind in such debates. (in other words me declaring I must be a highly intellectual man and I suspect you must not be since we disagree, so try to reach my level when replying if you don't mind)".

[QUOTE=MikeEbanks;5947806]Pervnerd48, you did a good job sir.

RedTalon, NPR is as center as news reporting can get. They get attacked from both sides constantly. Furthermore, if NPR biases concern you then don't even bother with CNN, FOX or MSNBC. Just because you dislike to heard something it doesn't make it not true. We need a common truth, it is unacceptable to label every news fake or bias when is not convenient.

Inflation and energy prices. I say get used to it because Putin will never let Ukraine tap into their gas / oil reserves and even less join NATO. I just learned the Donbas is part of those areas home to the new gas reserves and is a coincident the Russians are so adamant about that region.[/QUOTE]Actually most now list NPR as having a left center bias. It is unacceptable to say this is as center as it gets when that is factually not the case.

[URL]https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/leftcenter/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.allsides.com/news-source/npr-media-bias[/URL]

[URL]https://adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Media-Bias-Chart-9.0_Jan-2022-Unlicensed-Social-Media_Low-scaled.jpg[/URL]

[QUOTE=Motoyo;5949587]Hate to jump in during mid debate. One that seems like its surprisingly civil last few posts despite the topic, but its a pet peeve of mine so had to say something: Stating an 'appeal to credentials' fallacy. Or 'False Ethos appeal'. While foreshadowing you expect his reply may be a 'Pathos Appeal'.

I've met, known personally, and worked with people with masters and even doctorate degrees that are pretty dense outside of the field they studied. And can be just as biasedly misinformed (or deeply rooted loyal), to social and political ideologies they have formed.
Some was to a point it was shockingly different than the level of intellect you assumed they must possess to process complex situations. Tribalism in pack mentality for (insert preformed stance here) made them approach it with a [i]Seeking confirmation, not information[/i] when looking into info about things. I. E. Starting from "Here is what I think, now how can I get here from what I can find about it".

[B]Not saying YOU are.[/B]

Just pointing out intellect isn't always an indicator of wisdom, or inherent ability to be unbiased in conclusion.

I mean would me saying this matter in any debate?: "I have a Bachelors in architecture, and masters in a computer science. So when we talk about politics, keep that in mind in such debates. (in other words me declaring I must be a highly intellectual man and I suspect you must not be since we disagree, so try to reach my level when replying if you don't mind)".[/QUOTE]Agreeing with this 1000%.

[QUOTE=JZetoro19;5949626]Agreeing with this 1000%.[/QUOTE]The "non-degreed" always appear in this type of discussion. Their inferiority complex raises its head when the degreed mention education. Especially if it's post-graduate work. Say whatever you wish about intellect and wisdom and school of knocks, street smarts, common sense, blah, blah, blah. I will not debate the value of education.

[QUOTE=MovingForward;5948336]It does not take sophisticated thought or action. It does take common sense. I suggest the reading of Milton Friedman or Thomas Sowell. It won't convince you of anything, but I hope you find their points on history, economics, and government interesting.[/QUOTE]See, you don't know that I spent much of my college time as an econ major. (Finished as a mathematician, because I like harder analysis than that of economics, actually.).

[QUOTE=BeachDan9999;5949770]The "non-degreed" always appear in this type of discussion. Their inferiority complex raises its head when the degreed mention education. Especially if it's post-graduate work. Say whatever you wish about intellect and wisdom and school of knocks, street smarts, common sense, blah, blah, blah. I will not debate the value of education.[/QUOTE]I never debated the value of education. I am ALL for the value and principle of higher education for everyone as it lifts the society as a whole up in the long run.

I was debating the validity of it in a totally different field to the subject at hand.

That's like saying the advice of someone with a PhD in biology on the transatlantic economic futures and impact of it on global commerce is just as valid and knowledgeable as someone with a degree in Geopolitical Economics, simple because they both hold higher degrees.

What makes you assume I don't have any degrees? Because I mention yours is not anything special as it relates to the topic? Mine have no bearing on the subject at hand and thus don't matter when I mention I have them.

Many people have many degrees. There is Doctorate PhD from Princeton holding Geo-sciences out there convinced the earth is only 5000 years old and seeking the proof. There is a 3 PhD holder out there now that is pushing that auras, chakras, and reading tea leaves is real. There is famous people with multiple PhD's over the last century that have bigoted, biased, or small minded personal or political beliefs or believed nonsense.

Nothing in doing what 10's of thousands of people do everyday (go to college) negates the chance of being like the above people. Both for me and you.

I am not trying to be snarky here, but just because you got two degrees, means very little in way of clout, it's merely an [I]Appeal to Intellect (another logical fallacy)[/I].

There is people with multiple degrees IN the areas you are talking about that work in govt you fundamentally disagree with.
Does their degrees not bear credit of logical superiority of deduction, while your somehow lends to yours more?
If you can explain how they have multiple degrees and are wrong, yet you having multiple degrees in other areas lends to a probability you are right. Then maybe I can see past the oxymoron of it.

For someone that touts logic, you seem to be unaware of the handful of boiler plate Debating 101 logical fallacies you rebuttable with.

[QUOTE=Motoyo;5949891]I never debated the value of education. I am ALL for the value and principle of higher education for everyone as it lifts the society as a whole up in the long run.

I was debating the validity of it in a totally different field to the subject at hand.

That's like saying you would take the advice of someone with a PhD in biology on the transatlantic economic futures and impact of it on global commerce over someone with a degree in Geopolitical Economics.

What makes you assume I don't have any degrees? Because I mention yours is not anything special as it relates to the topic? Mine have no bearing on the subject at hand and thus don't matter when I mention I have them.

Many people have many degrees. There is Doctorate PhD from Princeton holding Geo-sciences out there convinced the earth is only 5000 years old and seeking the proof.

There is famous people with multiple PhD's over the last century that have bigoted, biased, or small minded personal or political beliefs or believed nonsense.

There is a 3 PhD holder out there now that is pushing that auras, chakras, and reading tea leaves is real.

Nothing in doing what 10's of thousands of people do everyday (go to college) negates the chance of being like the above people. Both for me and you.

I am not trying to be snarky here, but just because you got two degrees, means very little in way of clout, it's merely an [I]Appeal to Intellect (another logical fallacy)[/I].

There is people with multiple degrees IN the areas you are talking about that work in govt you fundamentally disagree with.
Does their degrees not bear credit of logical superiority of deduction, while your somehow lends to 'better grasp of logical thinking than most'?
If you can explain how they have multiple degrees and are wrong, yet you having multiple degrees in other areas lends to a probability you are right. Then maybe I can see past the oxymoron of it.

For someone that touts logic, you seem to be unaware of the handful of boiler plate Debating 101 logical fallacies you rebuttable with.[/QUOTE]I am smart enough to not read your response. Let it be!!

[QUOTE=BeachDan9999;5949899]I am smart enough to not read your response. Let it be!![/QUOTE]Is a grown man resorting to TL : DR?

And smart enough NOT to read something? Thats odd.
I learned you listen to everyone. Its a hallmark of wisdom. Because you may know 99% of something, and someone else only knows 2%. But they might know that 1% you do not. And you don't know until you listen to them to find out.
First time I heard "I am smart enough to know not to listen to someone else"....that's called vanity of ego, not intellect.

[QUOTE=BeachDan9999;5949899]I am smart enough to not read your response. Let it be!![/QUOTE]That's just another way of saying I don't suffer fools. In other words, you are very smart.