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[QUOTE=A John] Mothers, school teachers and you can only imagine who are running around their neighborhoods looking for AMP`s so they can call the local LE and filed complaints.[/QUOTE]
In hindsight, the fruit stand's location was not the best - next to a nail salon, where lady customers could see mongers going in and out. Thought I saw a stealthy observer earlier in the day on the sidewalk (on a cell phone) a few doors down - I guess my instincts were right.
[QUOTE=A John]I talk to many of these ladies and they also can't believe the details that are posted here or have any idea why. Have no problem with you calling your friends sharing the good news, but putting it on an open forum just doesn't make sense. [/QUOTE]If posting it on an open forum didn't make any sense, why would Orange have posted about 5 ads per day on CL?
It's not like DCPD is sitting there reading USG, trying to find the next group of 95 lb. Korean women to raid. If they were, the SWAT team would have shown up months ago to show how tough they are in the face of those menacing-looking 5'0" tall Asian women.
Personally, I think posting on the forum can only be a good thing since it helps drive business to the spas. It's not like the AMPs exist altruistically, to help you relax--they are in business to make money. No advertising=No money=no AMPs.
If you like your girl, you should shout from the rooftops how great she is. If you don't, don't blame USG when she moves to RI or SF or NYC where she can make some money.
There were a number that were not in great locations, except in terms of their convenience for us. That may contribute some to their demise, but Gingerman is right on in his criticism. For those of us who have been around a while, few post much anymore.
In the days chronicled by the ads in the sports section posted a few days ago, we were much more open - probably too open - with what we posted and contributed to this board. Black Tuesday or Wednesday, whichever, was an investigation that originated in New York. but once the local authorities were "officially alerted" to the extent of the situation here, I think we helped identify the places for them to visit. Prior to that, it was the occasional shut down and harassment. When the feds got involved, the game changed.
It was probably inevitable. Still, we need to do what we can to protect the services we enjoy and protect the girls we like.
Well, it looks like I'm returning to DC for only the second time in about twelve years. Unfortunately, it also looks like my timing couldn't be worse. :./
Bummer. Since it was in DC where I began my hobby.
Just for curiosity, does anyone happen to remember a MP near the Mall (I think it was somewhere between H and L streets)? I remember needing to ring the doorbell down near the sidewalk, then go through a door and up some stairs into what looked like a doctor's office waiting room. It was here that you waited for the line-up, which consisted mostly of young girls (mostly white) in white lab coats.
I've been trying to convince myself that I didn't just make this place up, but the last time I was in town a few years back I did some walking around where I thought I remembered it but all I found were hollowed out abandoned buildings.
Am I taking crazy pills here or did this place actually exist?
Thanks guys, and here's hoping the scene cools down soon.
[QUOTE=Sleazebum]...shut down this web site.
Simple
JJ[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, shutting down one site will only have people moving to get and spread intel in other places. In the end, it is only a very temporary fix to what has happend. The BC'ing among senior members seems to be going strong and working; something I know that I am not yet acknowledged enough to become a part of. Shutting down this site would kill this method of communication as well.
I suggest that we need to start a standard in reporting that shares enough information to those that understand and makes it considerably difficult for those that don't have the key. Seriously, it doesn't take a genious seeing "fruit stand" once and a few posts about a place called orange for anyone to put it together.
A person that I have noticed that gives great reports is Pilot Aviator (who I think posts mostly on the nova board). He posts enough about locations for people to understand what he's talking about, but is sufficiently discreet that even if you read his posts; you would need a good idea of what is where or a key to understand.
I know that in a public forum LEO will always figure it out; but I see a need for boards like this to exist so that the community can function together and discuss things like THIS problem; or other issues like rates, tips, preferences, and other intel that helps everyone. If someone had only BC'd about orange getting shut down; imagine if you decided you wanted to swing by the fruit stand with LEO there waiting?
Hopefully we can come up with a system using our bigger heads.
[QUOTE=hikerguy]Just for curiosity, does anyone happen to remember a MP near the Mall (I think it was somewhere between H and L streets)? I remember needing to ring the doorbell down near the sidewalk, then go through a door and up some stairs into what looked like a doctor's office waiting room. It was here that you waited for the line-up, which consisted mostly of young girls (mostly white) in white lab coats.
I've been trying to convince myself that I didn't just make this place up, but the last time I was in town a few years back I did some walking around where I thought I remembered it but all I found were hollowed out abandoned buildings.
Am I taking crazy pills here or did this place actually exist? [/QUOTE]
It is closed.
Who would have these codes? How would you know if the person you gave the codes to was not lE?
No. Nothing will work except to go FAR underground and disappear for a while.
Too many of the ones who post on here will continue to report too much and the problem will continue.
JJ
[QUOTE=Smacks]Unfortunately, shutting down one site will only have people moving to get and spread intel in other places. In the end, it is only a very temporary fix to what has happend. The BC'ing among senior members seems to be going strong and working; something I know that I am not yet acknowledged enough to become a part of. Shutting down this site would kill this method of communication as well.
I suggest that we need to start a standard in reporting that shares enough information to those that understand and makes it considerably difficult for those that don't have the key. Seriously, it doesn't take a genious seeing "fruit stand" once and a few posts about a place called orange for anyone to put it together.
A person that I have noticed that gives great reports is Pilot Aviator (who I think posts mostly on the nova board). He posts enough about locations for people to understand what he's talking about, but is sufficiently discreet that even if you read his posts; you would need a good idea of what is where or a key to understand.
I know that in a public forum LEO will always figure it out; but I see a need for boards like this to exist so that the community can function together and discuss things like THIS problem; or other issues like rates, tips, preferences, and other intel that helps everyone. If someone had only BC'd about orange getting shut down; imagine if you decided you wanted to swing by the fruit stand with LEO there waiting?
Hopefully we can come up with a system using our bigger heads.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that is a valid solution. People will still be posting on other boards and leo will know from there. This is the internet. There are so many forums and places for intel to be found that it wouldn't be wise.
If you actually read PA's posts, you would have noticed the discretion he uses when posting.
I'm just pointing to it as a possible model for which to continue business in public forums. There are mongers everywhere, and this board is not the exclusive place in which to post, but it seems to be very central to the community. That is why I think it is better to setup standards of reporting and hopefully disseminate a standard that can be followed elsewhere that is friendly to both us and the business.
Boards will not dissapear, we need to set an example and be the leaders.
[QUOTE=Sleazebum]Who would have these codes? How would you know if the person you gave the codes to was not lE?
No. Nothing will work except to go FAR underground and disappear for a while.
Too many of the ones who post on here will continue to report too much and the problem will continue.
JJ[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sleazebum]...if this site went dark for a couple months we seniors could pass info via email and after a while LE would look for some other way to gain info.
Jackson could notify Seniors after a couple months have passed and give us the new address of the re-vamped site. We could use it for a while until things got hot there then let that one go dark and re-surface again after a while.
Follow the example of our girls!
That is all I am suggesting.
JJ
[/QUOTE]
Why argue with these "no posting history" dudes who always know more than we do....
Nope, Shut her down.
The only thing missing is we gotta get to the management of the places to get them to quit advertizing on public places (CP, CV, CL ... have them set up e-mail lists to KNOWN white hats, and use the refer by friend business model. Even something like 411 would work. "You gotta know somebody to see somebody".
In the meantime, if you (or anybody else) knows Jackson, lets pass to him and see what he thinks?
Not a sermon, just a thought.
AM
I'm not sure LE needs to bother with this, or any other, web site. I think the whole thing is more about whether a certain jurisdiction wants to have these kinds of establishments operating or not. Until just a couple of years ago, and for several years before then, the Washington Post sports section was loaded with ads for places in Virginia, Maryland and the District. Does anyone thing LE missed that? Of course they knew what was going on, and the things we posted here were every bit as detailed as what people posted recently about Orange; maybe more so.
My all time favorite places were Downtown and Tanning and Massage (T&M)(in White Plains, MD). The always had the youngest, most attractive girls, and provided the best service. T&M operated for quite a while without problems, until Charles County got too many complaints from people dropping their kids at a day care located in the same strip mall. I'm not sure if they thought that someone going to T&M might also be on the prowl for little kids, or whether the little kids would be somehow bothered by the fact that men were going in and out of another business in the same strip mall. (I highly doubt that the kids knew what was going on inside T&M. I suspect it was more likely the soccer moms dropping kids off there who objected.) Wherever these places operate, LE probably won't bother them unless there are complaints. These complaints could come from other business owners who feel that these places might hurt their own business, which I find unlikely. The other source of complaints would be from the aformentioned soccer moms, or other residents, who feel that these places are not welcome.
We can speculate about how the moms might feel threatened by the fact that they are fat and unattractive to their husbands compared to the K-girls. My point is that these places advertise because they are in business to make money, and they are trying to attract customers. Secondly, politicians respond to constituents, and LE are run by politicians: in DC it's the mayor, and in Maryland and Viriginia it is the county sheriff, an elected official. The District is certainly a different place than it was just a couple of years ago. If enough people complain about something, you can be sure that some action will be taken. So it doesn't matter whther this web site goes silent or not, as others have said, the spas advertise on Craig's List and/or the City Paper, and there are always neighbors around that might complain. I would bet that the reason for the raids on Orange were the result of neighboring businesses complaining rather than anything posted on this board.
I have to say, I do not believe that posting here gets anyone shut down. I think that LE is smart enough to know what goes on in the neighborhood without getting intel from here. How many times have any of you had a homeless guy say something while you were looking for a spa entrance? I have and I am sure this guy did not have access to the net but he knew what was going on on his street. If the drunk in the gutter can figure it out then I am sure our buddies in LE can. I agree with Chaz in that it is mostly do gooders or other people in the area that complain to get these places shut down.
As for the level of detail in the reports, some should be kept to PMs simply out of respect. Commenting that your recent provider lacks massage skills, was good or is a spinner is one thing but the girls read this forum too. Most of them are real women with feelings just like any other woman. If they do something especially kinky I cannot believe thay want it plastered on the web.
Moderation could be the key.
Just my two cents,
BDD
Amen to Big Daddy & Chaz' thoughts. While cleanups have taken place in MD, the MD Guide goes on and keeps the valuable info flowing. Some spots, NEVER reported on, are locked up while others, verbosely commented about in the forum, continue to prosper. These DC pages are a great source of general info on the DC scene, as well as valuable safety info concerning places to avoid. For any reason. Shutting it down will be counterproductive. My take.
A Fine 2009!
Be safe,
Rx
Isn't the new DC police chief a woman? Do you think that could have a hand in these recent busts? Also, what do you guys think about the fact that these busts seem to be happening with little fanfare as opposed to cleanups in the past where the police would hold some big news conference about how they were stopping some sort of big sex slave ring or whatever?
Thanks for the report. Sorry to hear about this. It must have been unnerving. I sat through when I think LE came through another place for some form of inspection, the most unfun I have had in a long time.
Has anyone noticed the new ad in the Wash. Post for a DC establishment? I don't want to call too much attention to it on here. Seems we have concluded LE reads the Internet but not the Wash. Post. But has anyone checked it out yet? I know, TOFTT, but I do not have sufficient time or $ at the moment.
Tofer
[QUOTE=Happy Hour]I sat thru a raid at the fruit stand today at 4:30 PM.
Just finished my TS when the self-righteous jack-booted thugs barged in.
Heads up gents.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree that posting or not posting does not seem to affect any LE activities. In my RTFF experience, there is no correlation between busts and posts. Businesses reported on equally in the forum do not have the same record of busts or LE problems. Which leads me to believe that it is something more local (jurisdictional goals, politics, etc, ) or inherent in the actual spa (location, FS versus NOVA finish, etc.), meaning outside of this forum. Of course, this is off the cuff from a few examples I remembered in NOVA and DC.
It's also a hot topic/button for officials to easily target in election years or in need of positive press. That's why they always throw in the "possible slave ring" although it is a legitimate concern with some nationalities. Not Asian as far as I have witnessed. I believe they could shut down this industry in a heartbeat if they wanted to, a la Montgomery County, without the help of a website. It's more a matter of resources and the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
As previously stated, LE knows what's going on in their streets. These guys are not dumb. They probably have more information than they know what to do with.
Just my take on it.