"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2415634]Something she told me made me sit back and wonder. She said I was the only one that did not send her a rude and crude e-mail on there. That I was the only one that treated her with respect. Everyone else talked to her like she was a cheap ****. So, a lesson here guys; Treat them like you would if you are civi dating them. That seems to have paid off for me more than once.[/QUOTE]Same with my unicorn. I was the [I]only[/I] one who sent her a message that showed that I had read anything about her profile. That alone was unique enough for her to reply quickly and move to texting (within a few hours if I remember). Then we had one of the most delightful text conversation for the next couple of hours that I'd enjoyed in awhile-it was clear immediately that we had some chemistry. And again, I was the only one who not only treated her like a human being, but showed any interest at all in her as a person, [I]and[/I] was able to carry an intelligent conversation for any length.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2412764]I am new to SD / SB business, my week 3 - but loving it.

After hanging out with the professionals, I finally decided to take the SA route and it has been great for me.

Just a summary:

* Yes, some ladies canceled the night of, or stood me up. Oh well, shit happens.

* Yes, I met one scammer. She got the money and then a knock on the door. Shit.

* Met a beautiful, 20-year old, green eyed beauty. Has job issues, kid issues, money issues. She just needs money ALL the time, not a long-term thing. However, She let's me fuck her without a condom and has a tight pussy. I am afraid I am falling for her. Oh no, no.

* Spent a night with a nympho. Wholly shit. I pumped cum in her raw pussy three times.

* Young AA with the biggest tits: she keeps bugging to see me again. She squirted and soiled my sheets. Nevr saw that before. She wants daddy cock bad.

* 40+ wife who didn't have sex with the hubby for 11 years. I "popped her cherry" . She came 5-6 times, I don't know, and she fucked me and deep-throated me relentlessly.

* waiting for a 19-year old to show up tomorrow morning at 8:00 AM. Chance of hitting that pussy: 90%.

After being shit on by the wife for 20+ years, this is like heaven.

I just hope I can afford this for a long time.[/QUOTE]Damn! What site are you using?

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2415634]Something she told me made me sit back and wonder. She said I was the only one that did not send her a rude and crude e-mail on there. That I was the only one that treated her with respect. Everyone else talked to her like she was a cheap ****. So, a lesson here guys; Treat them like you would if you are civi dating them. That seems to have paid off for me more than once.![/QUOTE]I hear that all the time. Many guys on the SD sites have no intention of ever meeting anyone, so just like the guy on the street that says "hey baby, want to fuck" because they know they never will. There are many guys on the sites that like talking down to girls they know they will also never fuck. The no game guys only help us. God bless those broke small dicked losers.

One reason I go for the 7/9's instead of the 9/7's. A less pretty girl with a bangin body gets the most derogatory remarks thrown at them. Even a loser will usually back down a bit (meaning just stare) if a girl is too pretty but they get bolder if the girl is less pretty. Also girls value their facial looks over their body type. A prettier girl will ask for more than an average girl, even if the average girl has a smoking hot body. For me body trumps looks. And I cant afford a 9/9, so I focus on average to better looking spinners.

The 18 year old pretty and decent bod girl (pictured) I M&G-ed a few days ago already ditched me. I got to her fast and then hesitated as she really was only about a 6 or 7 in the skills dept. I am sure some guy snapped her up just because she was a pretty white girl. Its too bad cuz I was gonna give her a second chance as she was kind of interesting to talk to. And she basically let me do whatever I wanted to her in the car on the M&G.

But I would rather have a sex obsessed naturally skilled spinner any day. Like the other girl I M&G-ed early that same evening. We have been txting ever since. She is a very naughty little girl that needs an experienced daddy to up her game in the FC. And there are just enough of those girls out there to not waste time with anything less.

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2415634]Something she told me made me sit back and wonder. She said I was the only one that did not send her a rude and crude e-mail on there. That I was the only one that treated her with respect. Everyone else talked to her like she was a cheap ****. So, a lesson here guys; Treat them like you would if you are civi dating them. That seems to have paid off for me more than once.

[/QUOTE]I also have gotten that back from a few of the ones I've met. Kind of surprised me the low level talk given to these women. Not a sound strategy for one's hit percentage in the bowl.

I saw one of my x's today on SA. I originally met her on CL and had about 10 dates with her before it went south. She ended it not me. It's interesting and sometimes sad when you see a girl you used to date or one that was fresh when you first saw her and now she is a seasoned SB or UTR. Especially the ones that got away due to poor follow up, distance or any number of reasons. I find that reconnecting is usually not going to happen. And I always wonder what I could have done differently. Live and learn.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2416691]I saw one of my x's today on SA. I originally met her on CL and had about 10 dates with her before it went south. She ended it not me. It's interesting and sometimes sad when you see a girl you used to date or one that was fresh when you first saw her and now she is a seasoned SB or UTR. Especially the ones that got away due to poor follow up, distance or any number of reasons. I find that reconnecting is usually not going to happen. And I always wonder what I could have done differently. Live and learn.[/QUOTE]You probably could not have done anything differently to have a different outcome. Sometimes they are just not ready for this sort of thing or have too many personal issues to be able to see how good they have it. Sometimes when we get them when they are fresh they have no idea how good they have it. By the tome they figure it out we have moved on and they most likely don't have our contact info anymore. All too familiar a story. I try not to dwell on that.

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2416788]You probably could not have done anything differently to have a different outcome. Sometimes they are just not ready for this sort of thing or have too many personal issues to be able to see how good they have it. Sometimes when we get them when they are fresh they have no idea how good they have it. By the tome they figure it out we have moved on and they most likely don't have our contact info anymore. All too familiar a story. I try not to dwell on that.[/QUOTE]This particular one dropped me bacause she couldn't get her mind wrapped around me having multiple babies. She said that wasn't her style. Not the first time I have heard that. But I don't do undercover work. And I don't make false promises.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2416691]I saw one of my x's today on SA. I originally met her on CL and had about 10 dates with her before it went south. She ended it not me. It's interesting and sometimes sad when you see a girl you used to date or one that was fresh when you first saw her and now she is a seasoned SB or UTR. Especially the ones that got away due to poor follow up, distance or any number of reasons. I find that reconnecting is usually not going to happen. And I always wonder what I could have done differently. Live and learn.[/QUOTE]"What could SHE have done differently? " is the salient question. She missed The King of Sugar.

So I am working a true 10/10 20 yr old. If you are really picky a 9/9. 5. She is one of the prettiest girls I've seen in years. Google search shows modeling shoots but only hers locally. The problem is --she acts like it and I have no expectations of working something out with her. But it will be interesting for a bit and entertaining. One never knows what these girls are looking for--maybe a missing Daddy. I'm going to play this one slowly. Her personals show her to have a multiyear BF her age. Initial contact was bizarre with one word answers and no flow to "getting to know you " type??s. There seemed to be no interest in a relationship. She might just be entertaining herself as I am sure she has been hit on by guys within 3 states. It must be an ego boost but at the same time the aforementioned trash talkers probably are making me look good. If she has an IRL BF she might be interested in experiences with a grown up man or extra $$ ,but is playing it very carefully in order not to jazz him up. We'll see.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2416850]"What could SHE have done differently? [/QUOTE]I guess the chemistry just wasnt there for her. But it was for me.

Here is her profile. You can't really tell in her pics but she is tiny. One of the best bodies I have seen in years. Perfect legs, ass and tummy. Like zero fat (not counting her boobs). Tight and hard bodied. I remember our first date. I was stunned when I saw her in her daisey dukes at her front door. Any guy would be lucky to get this totally down to earth island girl. I did message her on the site. But its hard to overcome past awkward feelings.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/e17e026c/view?interests-my-favorites[/URL]

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2416989]I guess the chemistry just wasnt there for her. But it was for me.[/QUOTE]When I was young, I used to get bummed when I had one-way chemistry for a girl that wasn't reciprocated. As I got older I realized it has much more to do with their own preference than it does me.

What's more apparent to me now that wasn't apparent then is how many women are either bisexual or full-on lesbian, yet with a mind that's open enough to take cock if it gets the bills paid.

Women are emotionally complex, and often their emotional state impacts them sexually much more than us. To us, it's all physical. We might think "well another chick can't put a cock deep in her like I can", but it doesn't matter to them -- if they relate better to other females, and for whatever reason have a stronger emotional connection to them, then maybe they like a cock inside them but fingers or a dildo will do just as well -- their emotions actually impact what they physically feel.

To us, a tight pussy is a tight pussy, period. We are simple machines. Their minds don't work that way. To a bisexual girl, a monster cock is no competition for the frail fingers of a female girl she has an emotional connection with.

The one and only SB I was unable to fuck and / or stuff my cock in her mouth on the first date turned out to be a confirmed lesbian (I didn't know it until looking her up on FB later). At the time, I was so confident in my M&G skills that I thought it was a sure thing. Her lack of enthusiasm actually confused me -- not compared to civy dating standards, but compared to SB standards. My overall experience in the bowl is that about 8/10 SBs are bisexual or curious or willing, then there is that last 20% that are all-lesbian that really would rather a woman than a man.

You cannot necessarily detect them by whether they specify wanting a sugardaddy or sugarmomma on websites that differentiate. That's a good indication they are bi, but doesn't tell the whole story.

Just something to keep in mind. It sounds trite and shallow to say "well she wasn't into me, she must be a lesbian", but sometimes it is truly why they behave the way they do.

It's weird to look back at certain girls I wanted to bang in high school, but got weird reactions or rejections from -- and now I see them on FB with their same-sex partners, and I thought "holy shit, I remember sitting there in bed wondering what was wrong with me that she didn't dig me at age 15 or 16".

There can be many reasons for lack of chemistry, I'm just saying based on my own experience, this one is too big to ignore.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2417238]It's weird to look back at certain girls I wanted to bang in high school, but got weird reactions or rejections from -- and now I see them on FB with their same-sex partners, and I thought "holy shit, I remember sitting there in bed wondering what was wrong with me that she didn't dig me at age 15 or 16". There can be many reasons for lack of chemistry, I'm just saying based on my own experience, this one is too big to ignore.[/QUOTE]From the get go she was an admitted bi girl, but she said she liked cock too. And she had the omg sexiest face ever when she was getting me off. Having fucked a number of bi girls in my civi past I have no reason to doubt that a lot of SB's do like both as well. And get emotionally involved with both as well. And as hot as she was she definitely deserved every opportunity to step up. I'll never forget her.

On to the girl I saw tonite. She was the one I M&G-ed in the wild car date last week. On the ride over she said she had never been fingered in the ass before and couldn't believe how much she liked it. So about 10 minutes after coming through the front door I was fucking her sweet ass. This 19 year old little church girl turned out to be a tireless nymph. She will be posing for some hot pics on our next date. She is a spinner but with some tiny curves. She's is about a 6.5/9/10/10. So a very average looking little girl with big eyes and a way above average body. Really good skills. Super submissive, aggressive, and good pussy. Does whatever I tell her and then tells me what to do. LOL. I'll be seeing her again soon.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2417238]When I was young, I used to get bummed when I had one-way chemistry for a girl that wasn't reciprocated. As I got older I realized it has much more to do with their own preference than it does me.

What's more apparent to me now that wasn't apparent then is how many women are either bisexual or full-on lesbian, yet with a mind that's open enough to take cock if it gets the bills paid.

Women are emotionally complex, and often their emotional state impacts them sexually much more than us. To us, it's all physical. We might think "well another chick can't put a cock deep in her like I can", but it doesn't matter to them -- if they relate better to other females, and for whatever reason have a stronger emotional connection to them, then maybe they like a cock inside them but fingers or a dildo will do just as well -- their emotions actually impact what they physically feel.

To us, a tight pussy is a tight pussy, period. We are simple machines. Their minds don't work that way. To a bisexual girl, a monster cock is no competition for the frail fingers of a female girl she has an emotional connection with.

The one and only SB I was unable to fuck and / or stuff my cock in her mouth on the first date turned out to be a confirmed lesbian (I didn't know it until looking her up on FB later). At the time, I was so confident in my M&G skills that I thought it was a sure thing. Her lack of enthusiasm actually confused me -- not compared to civy dating standards, but compared to SB standards. My overall experience in the bowl is that about 8/10 SBs are bisexual or curious or willing, then there is that last 20% that are all-lesbian that really would rather a woman than a man.

You cannot necessarily detect them by whether they specify wanting a sugardaddy or sugarmomma on websites that differentiate. That's a good indication they are bi, but doesn't tell the whole story.

Just something to keep in mind. It sounds trite and shallow to say "well she wasn't into me, she must be a lesbian", but sometimes it is truly why they behave the way they do.

It's weird to look back at certain girls I wanted to bang in high school, but got weird reactions or rejections from -- and now I see them on FB with their same-sex partners, and I thought "holy shit, I remember sitting there in bed wondering what was wrong with me that she didn't dig me at age 15 or 16".

There can be many reasons for lack of chemistry, I'm just saying based on my own experience, this one is too big to ignore.[/QUOTE]Another prime example why the bowl is so much better then escorting. Some women out there are ok with any cock, any touch just pounding the shit out of them, but the average woman, is extremely affected by an emotional connection when it comes to sex. That can come in many forms.

A story of about my 6th SB proves it to me in an extreme way. She was a little spinner red head girl, anxious, shaky and had the typical "daddy" issues. The first time we went to the FC she turned out to be the wettest girl I'd ever encountered in all my life. I literally thought she had pee'd herself. Her sweet juices were running down her leg and all over the bed. I worked her over good, orally, with my fingers, even a few toys. I had her touch herself, teasing me with her pussy before I fucked her. She screamed out loudly and moaned, but I could still sense the awkwardness and that no matter what I did to her, she did not cum. As we lay in bed next to each other she expressed that she was very turned on sexually, but she almost never had an orgasm. She described how she had only had maybe 4 in all her life and those were in close serious relationships. She did not know why she struggled so badly. I knew why. I read this girl like a novel and had her number. I made it a quest to move to an emotionally connected place with her. She became a mystery to me I had to solve. I was gentle, warm, kind, loving with her. I was also passionate and treated her like an angel. The next few times we had sex, I talked to her, held her, reassured her and she began having an orgasm here and there. The mechanics of what I was doing to her was no different than the first time. But she was beginning to connect with me and felt close and secure. As we moved to a closer state she began coming over and over with me until she was having multiple orgasms each time. It was a fucking thing of beauty and motivated me to no end and the sex became outrageously good with her.

This is nothing you will ever find from an escort or the like and another prime example to me why the bowl is so addicting. But also reaffirmed to me that girls need and want that connection. It's all in the mix with the right SB and can lead to incredible experiences.

Could not agree with Double Ds post more. Both on why the bowl is so much more interesting than traditional mongering, along with the analysis of the complexity of figuring out what makes a baby tick and how an emotional connection can pay off major dividends.

Herein lies the rub for SDs with SOs (or more accurately SDs who have SOs that they want to keep around). Getting to emotionally involved with a SB places lots of strain on a real life relationship. Not a big deal if a SD doesn't have a SO or doesn't care whether the SO knows about his extracurricular activities. The problem is, once the emotional attachment starts, its like managing a fire.

Based on the reports of other seniors, many manage this by keeping the SB at arms length. It helps all parties to keep the relationship in perspective. Others manage to do this by constantly rotating their SBs.

I've found that the latter strategy works best for me since it helps to keep things fresh. But I definitely agree with Double the on the joys of the bowl. If anything were to ever happen to my "real" relationship and career though, I would move to the west coast and live out the rest of my days trying to do my best impersonation of HWG.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2417851]Another prime example why the bowl is so much better then escorting. Some women out there are ok with any cock, any touch just pounding the shit out of them, but the average woman, is extremely affected by an emotional connection when it comes to sex. That can come in many forms.

A story of about my 6th SB proves it to me in an extreme way. She was a little spinner red head girl, anxious, shaky and had the typical "daddy" issues. The first time we went to the FC she turned out to be the wettest girl I'd ever encountered in all my life. I literally thought she had pee'd herself. Her sweet juices were running down her leg and all over the bed. I worked her over good, orally, with my fingers, even a few toys. I had her touch herself, teasing me with her pussy before I fucked her. She screamed out loudly and moaned, but I could still sense the awkwardness and that no matter what I did to her, she did not cum. As we lay in bed next to each other she expressed that she was very turned on sexually, but she almost never had an orgasm. She described how she had only had maybe 4 in all her life and those were in close serious relationships. She did not know why she struggled so badly. I knew why. I read this girl like a novel and had her number. I made it a quest to move to an emotionally connected place with her. She became a mystery to me I had to solve. I was gentle, warm, kind, loving with her. I was also passionate and treated her like an angel. The next few times we had sex, I talked to her, held her, reassured her and she began having an orgasm here and there. The mechanics of what I was doing to her was no different than the first time. But she was beginning to connect with me and felt close and secure. As we moved to a closer state she began coming over and over with me until she was having multiple orgasms each time. It was a fucking thing of beauty and motivated me to no end and the sex became outrageously good with her.

This is nothing you will ever find from an escort or the like and another prime example to me why the bowl is so addicting. But also reaffirmed to me that girls need and want that connection. It's all in the mix with the right SB and can lead to incredible experiences.[/QUOTE]

I see my stripper X got a new profile today.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/e54ab9bd/view?search-created-new[/URL]

Too bad my fantasy never became a reality. Not sorry I tried though.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2417915]Could not agree with Double Ds post more. Both on why the bowl is so much more interesting than traditional mongering, along with the analysis of the complexity of figuring out what makes a baby tick and how an emotional connection can pay off major dividends.

Herein lies the rub for SDs with SOs (or more accurately SDs who have SOs that they want to keep around). Getting to emotionally involved with a SB places lots of strain on a real life relationship. Not a big deal if a SD doesn't have a SO or doesn't care whether the SO knows about his extracurricular activities. The problem is, once the emotional attachment starts, its like managing a fire.

Based on the reports of other seniors, many manage this by keeping the SB at arms length. It helps all parties to keep the relationship in perspective. Others manage to do this by constantly rotating their SBs.

I've found that the latter strategy works best for me since it helps to keep things fresh. But I definitely agree with Double the on the joys of the bowl. If anything were to ever happen to my "real" relationship and career though, I would move to the west coast and live out the rest of my days trying to do my best impersonation of HWG.[/QUOTE]Well just on the SD front, I have noticed that most of us in this game, are fairly happy mother fuckers compared to the average Joe out there sporting a nagging old wife at home. And they say what we do is twisted and not natural? I'm the happiest I've been in all my life having SB's at my disposal and knowing the next adventurous little play thing is just around the corner? This give credence to my firm belief that men are wired to fuck, fuck often and fuck randomly. It's societal pressure and Nazi feminists that have tried to make us believe otherwise. Hehe. A bit sexiest I suppose, but in actuality, I blame the feminist movement for giving me so many opportunities to get laid. Women think giving it up with ease, with little in return, makes them more equal to men. Ok, so be it. Now lie back pretty woman and take my cock.

Just want to say you guys inspire me, so much so I decided to give SA a try, looked at SD4 M and the prospects in my area are much less what I am looking for on SD4 M and most the ones that do meet the criteria are on SA as well. I am using HWG's 123 adapted to my style though. I already got two responses within hours of sending messages.

POT#1 is a 23 stripper (didn't say it but has the obvious strip club locker room shot) she is a 8/7/ On the pics, she only responded back she liked my profile so message two is bringing her back to script.

POT#2 is a 21 spinner easily a 8/10/ And appears pretty new because she didn't know what a per date arrangement was.

Of course there are plenty more hooks in the water just waiting for bites. I hope I can achieve the same success you gentlemen are enjoying sounds way better than the PROs. On a side note, I don't remember seeing it anywhere in all the pages I read (to be fair every 20-30 pages I started to skim quickly) but do you guys ever try for the girls saying no sex? I haven't but noticed a few of them have other phrases and the whole tone of their about me is geared towards sex.

My new girl from last night says she wants a 3 some with me and my ATF. She never tried that before either and wants the first time to be special. Not really my thing but I will investigate the possibilities. They only live a mile away from each other, so I am sure there will be some double dipping on my side occasionally with dropping off one and then dropping by to see the other. Two nymphos and only one dick. Good thing they love me.

This one (pictured) could make me forget about a lot of things. I just sent her a random normal sounding how you doing message. I told her she was awesome but that I am probably not what she is looking for. Now we are talking. She is a catch for sure. At 5'8" and 115 I guess that makes her a 10 and she is an 8 or 9 in the looks dept. I haven't hit her with the sugar amount yet. Its very easy to talk to any girl when they think maybe you are the next donald trump. This is why I always drop the sugar amount fast. She is very articulate in her profile as well. Not that that really matters to me as it has no relationship to her possible skills level. In fact in may even hurt? But you would just think a girl this hot looking is equally hot in the FC. A common misconception.

On CNBC today I was informed that referring to a black person as articulate is code for being shocked that they can speak proper english. Live and learn. Is it just me or are the PC people the most racist? No replies please as this is an off topic thought to myself.

Ok. Here are my 5 Steps in an easy to read format. Happy hunting.
I will update it from time to time if I get a better approach or find any typos.

[URL]http://coach4ula.wix.com/fivesteps[/URL]

My hats off to you as always!

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2418159]Ok. Here are my 5 Steps in an easy to read format. Happy hunting.
I will update it from time to time if I get a better approach or find any typos.

[URL]http://coach4ula.wix.com/fivesteps[/URL][/QUOTE]

Those of us who have been at it a long while have developed our own shtick, but Hollywood's contributions are always welcome, and his approach seems to work very well for him. I will adopt many of his thoughts myself.

It will be hysterical to see how the Babies react to the same message coming to them from 50 guys.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2418671]Those of us who have been at it a long while have developed our own shtick, but Hollywood's contributions are always welcome, and his approach seems to work very well for him. I will adopt many of his thoughts myself.

It will be hysterical to see how the Babies react to the same message coming to them from 50 guys.[/QUOTE]I think we are spread out a bit geographically. If you live in los angeles please mix it up.

But if you are in the OC or IE dont even worry about it.

Had a M&G with a pretty little 21 why / o nursing student set up for this morning. Very petite redhead, which could make me weak at the knees. We were all set to meet up at a DD for coffee. Confirmed with her last night, and she was telling me how excited she was to meet me. This morning, no show and has gone silent. Hope nothing happened to her but I get really annoyed when they do this.

On a good note, the 41 why / o MILF has been texting me on a regular basis. Looks like she wants to take a trip to the FC soon.

The 27 why / o I met up with a few weeks ago just texted me to say hello. This is the one that was dating a guy I know from another fire dept. She asked for 400 per date and I said I could only do 150. She rejected that but as we parted I said if you change your mind just let me know. Looks like maybe some bills are coming due and maybe she figures something is better than nothing. I noticed she has been on SA a lot since then and she has taken her profile pic down. As always, sometimes it pays to just sit tight. Never close the door on them. If you are the nice guy, even though you don't offer what they want, sometimes they come back. So let's see how this progresses.

On another note; the 29 why / o nurse in Florida that I have been talking to is now sending me naked pics and video's of her playing with herself. She is begging me for my cock. Seems to be an extremely frustrated young lady needing Daddy's attention. I leave tomorrow to go down to close on a new house there. Maybe Friday I can slip away from the warden for the afternoon and take care of this little girl. Another one that has not mentioned any sugar.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaIqyuPCWmY[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdr33aGnbas[/URL]

[URL]http://www.fredoneverything.net/DontMarry.shtml[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg04ryQ-71Q&list=FLPLvbpGVs2sPqFL6J9r0ABA&index=7[/URL]

Here are some vids posted on the Blog (SA) by the residents there.

For those of you on SA, could you make contact with Abigail in Verona? [URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/e66cfbfa/view?search-recently-active[/URL].

She sent me some hot pics and a video (don't mention that when you contact her) made it sound like she was up for a meet (40 minutes from me) -- but now over a a day of radio silence.

Not sure if she is trying to find folks to buy videos or do web shows or if she is really up for a meet.

Any assistance in triangulating some intel would be greatly appreciated. Not many fish in the west central part of the sea.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2418159]Ok. Here are my 5 Steps in an easy to read format. Happy hunting.
I will update it from time to time if I get a better approach or find any typos.

[URL]http://coach4ula.wix.com/fivesteps[/URL][/QUOTE]You rock, already got one M&G setup in less than 24 hours, and don't worry I am changing the messages enough and no where near LA, although if there are anyone in the AZ area send me a pm so we can make sure we aren't sending too similar messages to the same SBs.

One question in prep for my first M&G, what are some red flags you guys pickup from SB's who might try to lead you on and not give up the goods? I mean getting a BJ or making out on the M&G it obvious for giving them up down the road.

[QUOTE=PhxFunLover;2419332]You rock, already got one M&G setup in less than 24 hours, and don't worry I am changing the messages enough and no where near LA, although if there are anyone in the AZ area send me a pm so we can make sure we aren't sending too similar messages to the same SBs.

One question in prep for my first M&G, what are some red flags you guys pickup from SB's who might try to lead you on and not give up the goods? I mean getting a BJ or making out on the M&G it obvious for giving them up down the road.[/QUOTE]Several things you need to keep in mind. The very first thing to remember is that you NEVER front any sugar. Never give them anything until you have a trip to the FC and the panties hit the floor. Also, determine what your budget is before you make an offer. Whatever that is, stick to it. Do not cave in because she is hot. You must always go into a m&g with the thought that you may have to walk away. Remember, we have the cash, they have the need. They also have the pussy we are looking for. But there are many, many others out there that will take whatever you are offering. No one pussy is worth over paying for.

The other advice I can offer you is to take the time to read as much of this thread as you can. It will sharpen your hobbyist skills immensely.

Oh yeah, and enjoy yourself.

My daughter now has a profile on SA. Good luck if she can find someone to spoil her more than I have. But I hope she does and lets me off the hook. You know you're in trouble when the girl shows up in a late model mercedes.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2419684]My daughter now has a profile on SA. Good luck if she can find someone to spoil her more than I have. But I hope she does and lets me off the hook. You know you're in trouble when the girl shows up in a late model mercedes.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure I would be so calm about that. But then again, how do you bring up that subject? I wonder if she now knows that Daddy has a profile on there too. Talk about uncomfortable.

I guess this really reminds us that every girl on there is somebody's daughter. Treat them like you would want someone to treat your daughter if she was on there.

I figured I'd switch the topic from bowl strategy to the personal matters that those of us with SO's deal with.

I recently decided to Google search variations on "sexless marriage", which proved to be a mix of interesting, depressing, and somewhat angering. At approx 4 times a year, my situation is well into the normal definition of a sexless marriage. Kids definitely gave it the final push (no surprise there), but it had been teetering there for years beforehand. The only reason it go sooner didn't was because I was still trapped in the begging-for-scraps mentality, and at the time that would still pay off occasionally.

What's interesting is both the range of stories yet the similarity of them. Also that the majority of hits were about [B]women[/B] complaining that their spouse had no drive. What's depressing is what one can infer about how widespread it is when you look at this cross section (normal caveats of Google-extrapolation apply).

What's angering is that when you read the discussions of the stereotypical case of male drive exceeding female drive, it tends to devolve into blaming the victim. Well-meaning (and sometimes less so) advice of "do your chores, help out, be more supportive, make yourself more attractive". And gee, cut your spouse a break, she's stressed and tired from [I]{job, motherhood, keeping the house, or fill-in-the-blank}[/I]. Occasionally the man would step to defend his honor in that he did not match the deadbeat husband stereotype, only to then suffer the "stop being so beta!" criticism.

When it's the [I]woman[/I] not getting enough, well then, it's all about how [B]cruel[/B] the man is being. That it's slow, demeaning psychological abuse being perpetrated by the man. And how nobody should be force to be celibate, since after all, sex is a normal part of human expression and a very important part of a relationship! It's a need, not a want, why doesn't he understand that?!

As someone who's in a place he never expected to be, fueled at least partly by realizing that the sex was a good as it would never get (and going downhill fast), I figured I'd find how other men were coping with this age-old problem. Didn't expect the hits I found, or how pronounced the double-standard seems to be.

The second part is a question. I know some of the brothers mention that they are open a with trusted friend about their experiences in the bowl. How does that work out? I wonder how many of you do this. I'm at the stage where I'd sorely like a sounding board, as my life feels like a house-of-mirrors that could use some perspective. But among the candidates in my circle of friends and acquaintances, the risks far outweigh any upside.

Food for though anyway.

The bottom line for me is the need for variety and a lower maintenance experience. Everything with the SO is predicated on me being " good enough" and taking care of things of a non sexual nature. It's nice to have a baby who shows up, pleasures me, and GOES HOME. My SO is very fit and attractive for her age, so Ican't blame the ole "gotten fat" excuse. But I am just not turned on anymore. But give me a hot 20 yr old and I am ready to go.

As some of those You Tube articles say, there is just not a compelling reason to get married.

A trusted friend is invaluable to run things by, especially if he is non judgmental. If you don't have one seek a therapist to talk to. We are engaging in an activity that is not acceptable by societal standards, so there is a little ego hit for some of us, not to mention a social, business, financial one.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2419901]
The second part is a question. I know some of the brothers mention that they are open a with trusted friend about their experiences in the bowl. How does that work out? I wonder how many of you do this. I'm at the stage where I'd sorely like a sounding board, as my life feels like a house-of-mirrors that could use some perspective. But among the candidates in my circle of friends and acquaintances, the risks far outweigh any upside.

Food for though anyway.[/QUOTE]I have hinted at my bowl activities with one very trusted friend but would never outright tell him about it. There is just too much risk. This forum is my outlet. Probably not a very good place to get a different perspective, but the reality of it is, as FM, has mentioned, our activities would not be condoned by our society in the US. A friend might be able to offer a different perspective, but in the end, that friend will either not agree with your decisions or alternatively ask you how he can can do to get into the bowl.

If you think a friend will be the former, then you will put yourself at risk for having shared. If he is the kind of guy who is likely to do the latter, then you could probably get the same perspective by posting your thoughts to this forum, but create additional risk to your life by having shared your decision to play in the bowl with someone you actually know.

IMHO, if I needed perspective on a question that I didn't feel like I could post to the forum publically, I'd probably send a pm to one of the other trusted senior members I have exchanged pms with in the past.

As for the other part of your post, if things have gone downhill so badly in your relationship with your SO, have you ever considered leaving her? You may want to consult a family / divorce attorney, but if there is nothing left to salvage in a relationship, the decision to preemptively end things on mutually agreeable terms generally work out better for a guy financially, than if a man is "caught cheating. " Then spouse who has been "cheated on" generally has significant leverage. Depending on the state you live in, and the state of your relationship would your SO, you might be able to negotiate a mutual consent divorce and walk away without having to pay a lifetime of alimony.

As for me, well, I am selfish. I want my cake and I want to eat it as well. My SO isn't perfect, but she puts out on demand, is attractive, and pulls at least some of the weight when it comes to taking care of life. I don't want to get rid of her, but the need for variety is too strong, and the fear of regret is too great. What it boils down to is at the end of the day I don't want to look back and wonder about all the opportunities I missed with so many hot beautiful young women.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2420107]IMHO, if I needed perspective on a question that I didn't feel like I could post to the forum publically, I'd probably send a pm to one of the other trusted senior members I have exchanged pms with in the past.

As for the other part of your post, if things have gone downhill so badly in your relationship with your SO, have you ever considered leaving her? You may want to consult a family / divorce attorney, but if there is nothing left to salvage in a relationship, the decision to preemptively end things on mutually agreeable terms generally work out better for a guy financially, than if a man is "caught cheating. " Then spouse who has been "cheated on" generally has significant leverage. Depending on the state you live in, and the state of your relationship would your SO, you might be able to negotiate a mutual consent divorce and walk away without having to pay a lifetime of alimony.[/QUOTE]Agreed on the risk, though it would be nice to be face-to-face with somebody. But I probably wouldn't like what I hear, so I'm not exactly going to jump out and do that. A therapist (FredMoore's suggestion) could go either way in terms of adding value, but my circumstances would make that more complicated than usual.

I did a little research on divorce in my state (another place I thought I'd never be), mostly to clarify some of the financials issues. The good news is that I'm in a no-fault state which is general reasonable on division of assets and alimony, even if adultery is involved. Not that I am particularly eager to go there, I'm sure it's a living hell no matter what. And getting caught would be a bad thing on many levels, in addition to the dynamic it would bring to a divorce if it came to that.

Not willing to walk out, like most fathers, because of the kids. After that, maybe we'll all be in a better place. I hope so. From a pure relationship standpoint, things with my SO have hit rocks in the past few years that are unprecedented, but I also hold onto the hope that they are temporary storms. As for the sex, that's always been a sticking point, and like you it would take a lot of willpower to walk away from the bowl.

But the point of my post was not so much that the SO relationship was in the shit can, but rather the disconnect in this culture where men are supposed to suck it up when they are chronically denied sex, yet when a women is chronically rejected it's considered psychological abuse. Pre-bowl, I really didn't feel I was asking for much, but year after year it fell on deaf ears. I would have been fine with once a week (on average). Settling for that post-bowl would be very difficult, since even though it's only about once a week with the SB, it's a [B]very[/B] different once-a-week experience. Not that I have to tell anyone here that.

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2418798]Had a M&G with a pretty little 21 why / o nursing student set up for this morning. Very petite redhead, which could make me weak at the knees. We were all set to meet up at a DD for coffee. Confirmed with her last night, and she was telling me how excited she was to meet me. This morning, no show and has gone silent. Hope nothing happened to her but I get really annoyed when they do this.

On a good note, the 41 why / o MILF has been texting me on a regular basis. Looks like she wants to take a trip to the FC soon.[/QUOTE]That's why I have no problem telling a POT that was expecting money for a M & G that I don't pay to meet someone.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2419992]The bottom line for me is the need for variety and a lower maintenance experience. Everything with the SO is predicated on me being " good enough" and taking care of things of a non sexual nature. It's nice to have a baby who shows up, pleasures me, and GOES HOME. My SO is very fit and attractive for her age, so Ican't blame the ole "gotten fat" excuse. But I am just not turned on anymore. But give me a hot 20 yr old and I am ready to go.

As some of those You Tube articles say, there is just not a compelling reason to get married.

A trusted friend is invaluable to run things by, especially if he is non judgmental. If you don't have one seek a therapist to talk to. We are engaging in an activity that is not acceptable by societal standards, so there is a little ego hit for some of us, not to mention a social, business, financial one.[/QUOTE]If marriage didn't exist, would you invent it? Would you go "Baby, this shit we got together, it's so good we got to get the government in on this shit. We can't just share this commitment 'tweenst us. We need judges and lawyers involved in this shit, baby. It's hot!

Doug Stanhope.

Had a M&G with a petite girl the other day. Heavy into working out, not buffed like a dude but she's very fit. 5'2"; 100 lbs. Face 7 / body 8. During conversation she mentioned she lied about her age. She's 34, profile said 28. She's got her own house, a couple of cars and a teenager that lives with his father when in school. She's got a nice job too, doesn't appear to need money. I have no idea why she's in the bowl. I'm going to pursue for the low cost, but truthfully the bowl has spoiled me to wanting early 20's girls only. I'm not willing to drop sugar for her, but NSA or FWB would be excellent. I think she'd be a good break when my current spinner SB, who's a grad student goes dark for a couple days or when I need a break from paying hotel costs for the FC.

What's the logic of a dame like that getting involved in the bowl? She claims there's not a good pool of dateable guys in the area.

[QUOTE=Mdcraig;2420551]If marriage didn't exist, would you invent it? Would you go "Baby, this shit we got together, it's so good we got to get the government in on this shit. We can't just share this commitment 'tweenst us. We need judges and lawyers involved in this shit, baby. It's hot!

Doug Stanhope.[/QUOTE]Exactly. I tell any young guy I know not to get stuck and controlled in the system by getting married.

The true test if a woman that is sincere is to get her to agree to a marriage without the state. If she balks then you know she knows the game (system) and wants that control of you and your assets. Most American women know the game. The men need to wise up more, and not wait until they are caught in it.

I've thought about opening a website helping those guys that are married that want out, and exit the most efficient way possible given their state laws. And tudor those unmarried guys what NOT to do by getting caught up in the judicial system. There are ways to maximize your loss of assets by getting out.

I would never ever get married again. Why would I want to give up control of my life? Screw that.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2421023]Had a M&G with a petite girl the other day. Heavy into working out, not buffed like a dude but she's very fit. 5'2"; 100 lbs. Face 7 / body 8. During conversation she mentioned she lied about her age. She's 34, profile said 28. She's got her own house, a couple of cars and a teenager that lives with his father when in school. She's got a nice job too, doesn't appear to need money. I have no idea why she's in the bowl. I'm going to pursue for the low cost, but truthfully the bowl has spoiled me to wanting early 20's girls only. I'm not willing to drop sugar for her, but NSA or FWB would be excellent. I think she'd be a good break when my current spinner SB, who's a grad student goes dark for a couple days or when I need a break from paying hotel costs for the FC.

What's the logic of a dame like that getting involved in the bowl? She claims there's not a good pool of dateable guys in the area.[/QUOTE]Find out about her kinky side. Asap. Make her role play that's she's only 18. Try getting a little rough. If you like those things that is. It could end up being worth your while. Tight petite girls like her are worth a date or two to see their real potential.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2421322]Find out about her kinky side. Asap. Make her role play that's she's only 18. Try getting a little rough. If you like those things that is. It could end up being worth your while. Tight petite girls like her are worth a date or two to see their real potential.[/QUOTE]Heh! HWG sometimes you and I think alike, then other times our philosophies depart down separate roads.

In my experience, unless she is a UTR / pro type (thus has already discarded her ego before she showed up for the appointment), asking a woman over 30 to role play that she's only 18 is sort of like putting Mentos in soda -- interesting to watch the reaction but ultimately going to result in a mess. This is the psychological equivalent of them telling us they'd like us to role play like we know what we're doing in bed.

Someone who is only in it for money won't care, I'm sure.

Sounds a little like a Saturday Night Live skit: "I want you to get on all fours and pretend you're some gold-digging ho I found on a sugar website". LOL.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2421387] "I want you to get on all fours and pretend you're some gold-digging ho I found on a sugar website". LOL.[/QUOTE]That could work. Except that I make them repeat it back to me. Something like "I'm just a gold digging ho for my daddy" . LOL. As I pound away.