"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Gentlemen,

I'm not sure where this will lead, if anywhere, but I had coffee this morning, finally, with an HCB that I had been corresponding with, off and on, since June. Initially back then all signs indicated a speedy landing. Lots of "when we finally meet I'm going to" and that sort of thing, which frankly I found quite enjoyable to read and respond to. It was almost to the level of phone sex, but I didn't have to give her a credit card first.

We had arranged our first meeting in early August, then I had to cancel for some silly reason, and things just never got back up to the level of a rolling boil again. I drifted off, and it was a little while later that I met my ATF, and, well you know the rest. I really did like this baby, though, and not just for the sexy-talk. She seemed sweet, young and a little wounded perhaps, and so my nurturing instincts went into overdrive. Plus the two photos she sent me showed a beautiful little baby who looked like a dark-haired Claire Danes (if I'm spelling her name correctly. You all know who I mean).

Well last week, out of the blue, she emailed me and said she was eager to meet, and so this morning we finally did. She is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, but not in the way the artist / model was. More like a real, natural beauty, with the most open, innocent face and gorgeous lips. She is part Cherokee and part Irish (good God) and is smart, funny, articulate and sexy in a college-sweetheart kind of way. We spent almost two hours talking and laughing, and then I had to get back to work. I walked her part of the way back to her house, gave her a hug, and said goodbye, with plans to meet next week. Her parting words to me were "you are delightful, and next time we meet we'll be good to go."

I'm fucked, I believe, in more ways than one. I think I really might want to see this through, but have pangs of guilt about my ATF, who in one of the most ironic of coincidences texted me this morning to say that she's back in town from visiting her dad and wants to get together next week at our new favorite inn / restaurant for some quality alone time.

My question to you all is this: is it really cheating if I didn't seek it out? Who would be so rude as to look a gift baby in the mouth, so to speak?

In parting, I want to wish you all a safe, happy and wise New Year's Eve, and a 2012 filled with sleek, agile and spirited babies.

Don't forget to write,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1347784]My question to you all is this: is it really cheating if I didn't seek it out? Who would be so rude as to look a gift baby in the mouth, so to speak?

In parting, I want to wish you all a safe, happy and wise New Year's Eve, and a 2012 filled with sleek, agile and spirited babies.[/QUOTE]Cheating. I'd say it is cheating if you don't slide one down this lovely HCB's (brunettes) throat. Cheating her out of the experience.

Now let me tell you what I was thinking as I read your soliloquy. And came upon the part of your HYB returning, etc. I thought,"I wonder if she is setting ole Scotty up here." By providing some bait that is litterally just too damned good to pass up on, just to see if you would be true to her or not? OR, what about you go visit the new HCB this next week, and your HYB is also there. In yearning desire for a 3-some. Wow, now wouldn't that knock your socks (and the rest of you) off?

Well yes, my imagination has really run amuck now hasn't it. So here is wishing you gentlemen a very Happy and Healthy New Year. No need to wish Scott the best with the ladies, as it sounds like he has two of the best in all of Va. Already. Enjoy them both, my good friend.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1346759]Met a new baby yesterday. South African (with that lovely accent) , intelligent and funny, quite possibly the finest body I've ever seen. Initial meeting went very well. We get together this coming week for a play date. Keeping my fingers crossed.[/QUOTE]So she if she stays she is also "African American"?

I just dropped by for the first time in several months to see how you guys are doing. I'm blown away. You've made this into a great forum. I've skimmed the posts since last August and have several enjoyable rtff hours ahead.

As for my activity level, I have taken a break. I haven't fucked an sb since July.

I spent more than a month trying to cancel my subscription to sd4me and finally cancelled the goddam card number. I note there are several good ideas on how to avoid this problem in the posts of the last several months.

I may or may not get back in the game, I haven't decided yet. The need to maintain security can be exhausting. Sometimes I start to feel sorry for the girls. Sometimes my dick gets sore or wimps out. If I do get back in I may try SA.

I really like how you've fixed up the place and I'm going to have fun lurking around for a while.

May the sbs all spread their legs for you and may all your vaginas be moist in the New Year.

[QUOTE=AsianLPGAfan;1347820]So she if she stays she is also "African American"?[/QUOTE]Medium-light skinned black with very smooth and even complexion everywhere, lovely golden-brown eyes, and medium but very smooth and sweet lips. Frankly, I normally avoid black SBs, as many are too ghetto and most have too much drama. But this girl has the sensibilities of her profession and her upbringing; she's educated, intelligent and classy without the whole "my shit don't stink" attitude a lot of wannabe-classy women bring to the table.

I just completed my first months membership on SA, and found it to be much less scam than SD4Me. I made a couple good connections and have a few others that I may meet with when the time arises. At the end of my pay period, there were no problems, the VIP part of the membership stopped, and unlike SD4Me, there was no effort of the part of the SA site to continue charging my card. SD4Me is a bit more flashy website with the option to chat live with the SB's, but that is about the only advantage that I saw over the SA site. I also noticed that on both websites, it seems that when you aren't a paying member you get more unsolicited messages from SB's (but more so on SD4Me). I assume this is to try to convince you to become a paying member so that you can read the messages. Once you become a paying member, then most of those SB's never respond back to you! LOL Not sure you if would call that "marketing" or "scam". Also, I found more SB's that seemed to be using fake pics on SD4Me. I had been a member of SD4Me several times over the last couple years and made a few good connections. I learned early that it was hell cancelling your membership with a credit card. If / when I join a SD site again, it will most definitely be SA.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1348920]I just dropped by for the first time in several months to see how you guys are doing. I'm blown away. You've made this into a great forum. I've skimmed the posts since last August and have several enjoyable rtff hours ahead.

As for my activity level, I have taken a break. I haven't fucked an sb since July.

I spent more than a month trying to cancel my subscription to sd4me and finally cancelled the goddam card number. I note there are several good ideas on how to avoid this problem in the posts of the last several months.

I may or may not get back in the game, I haven't decided yet. The need to maintain security can be exhausting. Sometimes I start to feel sorry for the girls. Sometimes my dick gets sore or wimps out. If I do get back in I may try SA.

I really like how you've fixed up the place and I'm going to have fun lurking around for a while.

May the sbs all spread their legs for you and may all your vaginas be moist in the New Year.[/QUOTE]I'm happy to know Lit wasn't caught by the warden. That was my concern. At least he is staying tuned.

Yes, security is difficult to maintain, certainly when seeing the same girl multiple times. I think the risk is a geometric progression. That second time presents two or three times the risk of the first, and keeps going up.

[QUOTE=Golfcart;1349305]Yes, security is difficult to maintain, certainly when seeing the same girl multiple times. I think the risk is a geometric progression. That second time presents two or three times the risk of the first, and keeps going up.[/QUOTE]Good wishes to you also, Golf. I've enjoyed getting caught up on your posts.

One reason I like this thread is because I could talk with similar minded mongers about what I was doing. There was nobody else I could safely talk to about it.

Some of you sb mongers clearly have more experience than I do. I consumed 12 tasty little babies in a five month period last year, but I've only made semen deposits in 83 women lifetime and am currently well into my seventh decade. It was a boost to set personal best in the volume / rate of new girls fucked at such a late date in the race so to speak. I think about the 12 a lot but details tend to blur as time passes. I am aware some of you are far more successful than I in spreading your seed around.

Security is always a big deal for me. I experience an attack of paranoia at some point in every session with an sb. If I'm re-penetrating, I have to guard against a false sense of security that there is less of a risk because I've been with her before. The main source of risk was always that the sbs I want to fuck are the ones looking for a continuing relationship, but a continuing relationship is not what I want. I fucked about half of the 12 more than once, and when I did I was constantly trying to re-set their expectations.

The repeaters:

Sb2. A pudgy 30 year old healthcare provider wanted something reliable and long term; when she emailed me I wasn't reliable enough in the sugar department, I was scared it was a blackmail threat, but she just moved on. Low security risk now. She wants somebody other than me.

Sb4. A 27 year old brunette receptionist HYB with a kid; she has a perfect ass and suburban housewife consumption habits. She's my atf sb but she sends me requests for sugar every few weeks, I get paranoid every time, but if I go back to any of the 12 again it will be her. I consider her a semi-pro. Have I sent her more sugar? Yes, once. High security risk. She doesn't know who I am but has seen my license plate. Worse, I want to see her again.

Sb9. A 27 year old file clerk / part time college student party girl, voluptuous and compulsive, makes no demands but is erratic in every aspect of her life. I haven't heard from her for a while and I expect she has moved on. Medium security risk. She expects to rotate men but she is clever and tough enough to make a threat.

Sb12. A 38 year old divorced suburban housewife with a kid, desperate; long negotiations over the GPS; great sex. One month later she emailed me she was homeless, with the kid, and needed help. I referred her to the child welfare authorities. She cursed me out and disappeared. Low security risk. She has no idea who I am or where I live. She's only seen me twice, on days 1 and 4 in an out of town hotel during a 4-day multifucking period.

Sb16. 26 year old office worker, HYB (B is for butt in this case, she is flat) got drunk in the hotel bar, talked provocatively about a threesome with her friend. When I saw her the second time, she was sober but the sex was still too perfunctory. She emailed me several times demanding another date but I ignored her; I'm still a little worried about this one since she saw my license plate on the second date. Plus I think she may have gotten my name from the hotel bar man (I paid cash but she could have told him my room number and he could have looked it up.) High security risk.

Sb18. My 23 year old HYB, recent college grad with a dull job, another atf. I saw her many times. She was obviously different from the start. I asked her if she knew what she was getting into before I opened up her pussy, I told her I was attached and temporary and couldn't support her. She said thats just what she wanted until her future life clarified. We never talked sugar. She always came to the hotel and stayed as long as I liked. Conversation would drag (too many "awesome"s) , our tastes were totally different (she likes hip hop, I prefer opera, as fucking music). She was very submissive and passionate in bed but regulated our relationship well. I told her in July it would be our last time, at least for several months. She said,"Oh. Well let me hear from you sometime." Every other sb has followed up after I last saw her. Not this one. When I finally emailed her after several months, there was no reply. A rare, perfect, non-threatening relationship for me, but dissatisfying nonetheless. I couldn't stand to be with her for more than a few hours. Low security risk.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1347784]*She is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, but not in the way the artist / model was. More like a real, natural beauty, with the most open, innocent face and gorgeous lips.

*I'm fucked, I believe, in more ways than one. I think I really might want to see this through, but have pangs of guilt about my ATF, who in one of the most ironic of coincidences texted me this morning to say that she's back in town from visiting her dad and wants to get together next week at our new favorite inn / restaurant for some quality alone time*My question to you all is this: is it really cheating if I didn't seek it out? Who would be so rude as to look a gift baby in the mouth, so to speak?[/QUOTE]Scott, I have read all your excellent posts and remember, I think, your important points. I can't be sure these days as my short term memory is lousy. Anyway, as I recall you have a reporting relationship with a warden and you have consumed a great many tasty babies already. Always in a thoughtful way I might add. Now, as I understand it, you have become somewhat or at least sometimes somewhat besotted with your HYB (or HYC) and for a time have practiced episodic monogamy, or at least you have at least occasionally refrained from fucking anyone other than your atf sb hyb or hyc (save for the warden herself, presumably). Now you pose the ethical dilemma to the Board: is it moral, under these circumstances, to jump on and make a deposit in "a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful *real*natural beauty" with "the most open, innocent face and gorgeous lips"?

In short, my answer is yes. This will not be the answer of Ariana Huffington or, for that matter, nearly any American female over the age of 25. However, the code of the sd is to seek happiness without doing harm and as long as you don't rip the new baby off in some way that is not evident to me or inseminate her or harm her physically and she is of legal age, I don't see a violation of the code. Others may disagree.

However, multifucking, as previously noted, carries security risks. With multiple multifucked repeating sbs at hand, Golf's geometric risk progressions tend towards the infinite and may veer out of control.

So be careful, senior monger. If you go forth to ejaculate in this new baby it is in keeping with the best sd principles but is a brave act in which you put yourself at risk. Let us know how it goes.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1348994]Medium-light skinned black with very smooth and even complexion everywhere, lovely golden-brown eyes, and medium but very smooth and sweet lips. Frankly, I normally avoid black SBs, as many are too ghetto and most have too much drama. But this girl has the sensibilities of her profession and her upbringing; she's educated, intelligent and classy without the whole "my shit don't stink" attitude a lot of wannabe-classy women bring to the table.[/QUOTE]I'll be interested to hear how this goes. The girl sounds very attractive.

I am attracted to many pretty AA women these days, at least the celebrities, but I have never penetrated or even dfk'd one. Never put a finger in an AA girl or sucked her nipples. I've thought about it though.

Most recently, there was a very pretty looking high school girl (supposedly) advertising on Richmond BP. This was about last March. She was 18 (supposedly). I contacted her and we tried to work out a time. I couldn't do days at that point and she couldn't do the evening and she wouldn't travel from her home. She said it was too dangerous. Since I couldn't make the date anyway I didn't have to think through whether or not I would go to her home. At the time I was seeking a back-up for a no-show sb date. I think if I had obtained access I would have fucked her willingly (assuming she was over 18).

But with AA girls I worry about a couple things. Most AA women seem to me to dislike older white guys. Why is that? I'm not sure, maybe they think we don't like them. Then there is the whole hair thing I don't understand. You aren't supposed to touch their hair. When you are fucking them? What's with that?

CWL, maybe you can advise if your date goes through.

Wow. Makes me think Chris Hanson, Dateline scenario. There is NO freaking way I would visit a (supposed) 18 yo's house for this very scenario. Risk too great.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1349635]She was 18 (supposedly). I contacted her and we tried to work out a time. I couldn't do days at that point and she couldn't do the evening and she wouldn't travel from her home. She said it was too dangerous. Since I couldn't make the date anyway I didn't have to think through whether or not I would go to her home. At the time I was seeking a back-up for a no-show sb date. I think if I had obtained access I would have fucked her willingly (assuming she was over 18).[/QUOTE]

Lit, I'll let you know.

Personally, I haven't seen signs of black girls not liking older white guys, at least not on SA or SB4Me. Every one of the could-actually-meet ladies (I discount the ones from far away) that have winked or written me first has been black, and all but one was less than 25. Of course, my unscientific analysis of the SB populations on SA and SD4Me indicates that there are at least three young black women for every one female of any other race or age, so I shouldn't be surprised about that. But it's certainly a telling data point relative to the current economic problems we all face. I also find it interesting that a high percentage of those young black ladies do not post photos. Leads me to believe that a lot of those girls are just grasping at any way to bring in some money without giving any real thought to what they're doing.

The interesting part of this discussion to me is all the concerns about security. As an unattached male in his mid 50's, I don't have several of the worries some of you other guys do, but I can appreciate the concerns. I'm thankful that I don't have to secure my phone and computer from the prying eyes of a warden!

[quote=varoom;1349674]wow. makes me think chris hanson, dateline scenario. there is no freaking way i would visit a (supposed) 18 yo's house for this very scenario. risk too great.[/quote]damn, you're right, i hadn't even thought of that.

now that my foggy brain clears though i remember another reason i took a break from the sd / sb game. i got several emails on sd4me asking if i'd be part of a "well-compensated" reality show about sds and sbs. one of my sbs got the same thing. scared me silly, thinking about running into a film crew on one of my dates. i wonder what happened with that.

as far as the entrapment tv show goes, hopefully i'll never run into it. if i had any doubt about a girls age, i think i'd be smart enough to ask for proof. the operative words are "i think," and mr johnson sometimes has other thoughts. still, to entrap you, don't they have to say things like,"you know i'm ****, right?" i do believe i'd be smart enough to handle that one, with or without mr johnson's cooperation.

it's a rough world out there. a poor old monger just tries to get himself a little bit of young pussy and all these hypocrites gang up on him.

[quote=literal2;1349813]as far as the entrapment tv show goes, hopefully i'll never run into it. if i had any doubt about a girls age, i think i'd be smart enough to ask for proof. the operative words are "i think," and mr johnson sometimes has other thoughts. still, to entrap you, don't they have to say things like,"you know i'm ****, right?" i do believe i'd be smart enough to handle that one, with or without mr johnson's cooperation.[/quote]**** and proving it. i'll just two words: 'lawrence taylor'. i believe he is now a sex offender and serving x yrs of probation over his under age female, even though she stated she was older. it doesn't matter in some states, it does in others, so more research would have to be done in your area to know for sure.

entrapment is a different issue. they may not get a conviction, but they would surely get an arrest. you know which one we would fear more here. once you were arrested, the rest would be a hassle, and certainly even if the chgs were dropped or one were acquitted, the damage is done. but frankly this conversation isn't probably too productive for most of us, other than to be wary of young girls and situations that could be any kind of a sting.

regarding the tv show, they did run a special on the sd thing. more from the sb perspective and how and why these young girls get involved in the trade. also looking at the comparative similarity of sd vs. pay for play outright; implied versus stated maybe. i didn't see the piece but heard several news reports and saw a highlight or two on it, along with some discussion on another part of this board, i think. good to stay clear of the cameras; wow.

lit, so glad to see you back here, if only for a while. you contributions, methods and knowledge have been missed. of course others have picked up some of the slack, but we would all benefit by your return. whether you are active or not with the sb's. i understand the concern for security, and it is that aspect that keeps me in more arms length arrangements. the closeness of the sb gig has it benefits but certainly its limitations.

Lit, good to see you back posting!

Regarding potential blackmail. I don't have a significant other to worry about but I do have a business. A few years back when I began my foray into the SB / SD world, a SB I met and wasn't interested in on began sending texts along the lines of "it would be bad for your business if people knew this is how you spend your free time" so I gave her some sugar. Big mistake, BIG. She came back a week later wanting more, of course. So I decided I would bite the bullet and suffer any consequences but I wasn't going to pay anymore. She was a single mom engaged in a custody fight with her ex, so I made it clear she would suffer as much as I would with any public disclosure. She disappeared never to be heard from again. So remember, since many are single mothers or college students or have boyfriends / husbands, they can have as much to lose as any of us. Although they may not realize it until it is explained to them. If she persisted, I planned to go to the police. Thankfully that wasn't necessary.

Still, it's always wise to avoid those SBs when you have a gut feeling something like that may occur. It's not worth the stress.

It has been a while since I gave an update of my current HCB situation. For those of you that don't know I met her from CL almost three years ago and would see her every so often. About six months ago we started seeing each other more frequently leading up to where we are today.

We have been seeing each other on average three times a week. Sometimes we just hang out and talk, other times we have fun. Last week we spent an overnight and it was a turning point I feel for what has been going on. The week prior we had an overnight and it was actually more like love making than just sex. We both felt it and enjoyed it but realized there was a problem. We were both getting too close emotionally and we both realized we need to back off a bit to make what we have work. She is 20 years younger than me and I have a SO so there is no future relationship possibility. I am going to take it for what it currently is and enjoy her hot 22 year old body while it lasts. I will be sad when it is over but I have started the search for someone else to get me moving in another direction. I actually appreciate my SO more going through some of the issues the HCB has. Who would have figured.

Moving forward less emotions and more pleasure. Looking back over the last month or so I pursued her hard and let my emotions take control. It is difficult not to get attached being intimate with someone and seeing them so frequently.

I know what others have said and I chose my own path but I wanted to share what I have experienced. This thread has been an outlet to help me and I want to thank everyone.

Fix

[QUOTE=Literal2;1349601]The code of the sd is to seek happiness without doing harm[/QUOTE]Gentlemen,

How nice to return from vacation and see so many interesting and informative posts. We have a great start on the new year, let's keep up the pace.

Lit, good to see you back and posting. Hopefully you will be back up to speed soon. Your above comment, along with several pms, have helped to clarify this situation for me. My "celibacy" was self-imposed, and not something I had discussed with my ATF nor asked of her. It's like I put [I]myself[/I] on double secret probation, and now, looking at it in the clear light of a new year, it seems silly and pointless. There are just too many sweet, sweet babies out there to limit myself to just one.

Not all of them will consent to be landed, I know, but as I have stated before, I like the pursuit almost as much as the goal, so I am getting my tackle out again, and heading off to the SA pool to see who is rising. I am scheduled for an aerobics class with my ATF later this morning, and Scottie and I are eagerly anticipating getting a good sweat on, but there are a few other little fish that I have been casting to from time to time, just to keep my skills from eroding, and I may just see if I can get them to bite.

As for the Irish Cherokee that prompted my conceptual dilemma, she has had what I can only characterize as a full-out panic attack, and has disappeared, at least for the foreseeable future. And this after several text exchanges about the exact nature of her sexual appetite and skill set. Ah well, such is life. As has been stated before, they are a quixotic breed. While I regret congratulating myself prematurely in public, I do appreciate the assistance from you all in clarifying my thoughts on the whole issue.

As always, my brothers, keep up the good work, and don't forget to write.

Scott

PS - the two most promising, or should I say interesting, babies of the moment are another art student (yay) and an artist / modern burlesque dancer (hooray). In my experience, both of these categories of babies are wild in bed. Wish me luck!

Gentlemen,

After reading the back-and-forth about security and multiple babies, I thought I might share, for what it's worth, my approach to the issue.

As I see it, most of us have two fronts of concern when it comes to security: the home front and the outside world.

As for the home front, I have a laptop that I use that is separate from the house computer, and my SO has her own lap top that she uses. I make certain to always use the "private browsing" option when doing anything SB related, and always close everything down at the end. In addition, I have set my preferences in both browsers to erase everything upon closing. I have a paper-less, online statement only credit card that my SO is unaware of that I use for all SD-related billing, such as hotels, meds, SA subscriptions etc, and pay cash for everything else unless it is impossible to do so.

For contacting babies, I have a dedicated email account, with a "name" in the address that is play on my fake SA name, which I crafted based on a Whitepages search of names in my area. There is, in fact, some poor shmo who has the same name as I have taken, and is approximately my same age, but I'm guessing has not fucked as many babies as I have. I have set up a facebook page under that same name, with very little info on it, just in case the baby googles my SA name. I have a private photo on my profile that is permission-only access, and it is a picture I took myself in the mirror, so it can't be tin-eyed to anywhere else. Similarly, I have a photo I send from my email address that likewise appears no where else.

As for my car, I keep all receipts, registration, manuals, etc in the wheel well in the back. Nothing with my name on it is kept anywhere a baby could get her hands on. As for tracing a license plate, that is a distant and unlikely fear, as I understand it. A friend of mine who is a detective with the Chicago police department told me that all plate look-ups are recorded, and have to correspond to a legitimate write-up, otherwise it gets looked into and the guy who did it will be reprimanded or written up himself. This means that a baby would have to have a close friend or relative willing to take some heat for her in order to trace your plate. Possible, but not likely.

Lastly, I never share my real name with any baby, nor what I really do for a living. I have concocted a "close enough" profession for the purposes of small talk that allows me to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but not exact enough that an enterprising baby could ever find the real one.

All this helps me to feel comfortable with my activities, and so far, thank the Lord, have not had any issues. I am hoping that it stays that way, and in reality my feeling is that these little fish are just looking for the cash and a good pounding, and not criminally-minded. I have thought about the danger of black mail, and honestly don't know what I would do in that instance. It only works if you let it work; the baby has nothing to gain from contacting your SO, so maybe calling her bluff is an option. I'm not sure I have balls big enough for that, but desperate men do desperate things.

In short, the married SD life is the life of a secret agent, and must be approached as such. If I am meeting a baby for coffee or lunch or a workout in the city, I make sure to mention to my SO that I have work there just in case a girlfriend of hers says that she saw my car in such and such a neighborhood that day. With a little advanced thought, and a rigidly-followed procedure for covering one's tracks, the risk of outing can be kept to a minimum, I believe.

Hope this is helpful. It is a little more stream of consciousness than I normally like, but I trust you will forgive the lack of polish in favor of what I hope is some good advice.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

[QUOTE]*We have been seeing each other on average three times a week. Sometimes we just hang out and talk, other times we have fun. Last week we spent an overnight and it was a turning point I feel for what has been going on. The week prior we had an overnight and it was actually more like love *

Fix[/QUOTE]Fix, I was interested to read your story. I've got theories about this. One is if you fuck a babe repeatedly over a long time you are likely to develop real feelings (another is, the way to a woman's heart is through her vagina). I can see how you could get attached and I hope when the break comes it's not too painful. As others have observed, the multifucking offered by the sb world can make the transition easier. I am curious about how this brings you closer to your SO. I would think it would bring you closer to splitting up.

[QUOTE]Every one of the could-actually-meet ladies (I discount the ones from far away) that have winked or written me first has been black, and all but one was less than 25.[/QUOTE]CWL, I remember getting those unsolicited winks / kisses etc. Mostly I ignored them because I assumed they were from unattractive girls or pros. Did you ever take the plunge with someone you met this way? I'd be curious how it played out. Forgive me if you have described this before and I forget. Alzheimers. My memory is good enough to remember that you had an active youth, to put it mildly.

[QUOTE]Regarding the TV show, they did run a special on the SD thing. More from the SB perspective and how and why these young girls get involved in the trade.[/QUOTE]Vroom, I watched the Ariana Huffington piece that was linked earlier, I'm not sure that's what you meant. The thing about that piece that struck me was the psychologist. When asked if being an sb was harmful to the girl, the psych said yes, because she will feel guilty later and that will depress her. The psych also said that sbs and sds were indicative of a real problem, not having morals, etc. Wait, doesn't that imply that if they don't feel guilty they won't be harmed? And I don't see why they would feel guilty if they really don't have the kind of morals that tell them not to do it. Older cats always have and always will lust after young pussies. It makes us happy. What makes people unhappy is hypocrisy. You can't even talk about this stuff (older married guys and young women) leading to happiness or you will get loudly criticized by everybody. Which is why USASG and ISG are so useful. I sent Jackson a note of thanks a while ago when I happened to be in his town. I mean it, this forum and for me this thread particularly have improved my life.

[QUOTE]I made it clear she would suffer as much as I would with any public disclosure. She disappeared never to be heard from again.[/QUOTE]Spit, well done. I hope I have the balls to do that if it ever happens to me.

[QUOTE]***I put myself on double secret probation, and now, looking at it in the clear light of a new year, it seems silly and pointless. There are just too many sweet, sweet babies out there to limit myself to just one.*** I like the pursuit almost as much as the goal, so I am getting my tackle out again, and heading off to the SA pool to see who is rising. ***[/QUOTE]Scott, you are the real deal. Lead on brother, and [I][B]don't forget to write[/B][/I]!

Re Scott's post on security and multiple babes. I agree with all his procedures and have used most of them. I'm glad to learn Scott's opinion about license plate disclosure. It's analogous to hotel registration I guess. You don't want to register under a fake name because that's breaking the law and breaking the law leads to problems with the folks against whom our security procedures are ineffective. Similarly, you don't want to mess with license plates. Often I used rental cars on my sb excursions because they were out of town. Once I rented one in town just to see a girl. Too much trouble and it uses up a lot of time better spent fucking.

Two things I would add to Scott's list are encryption software and sim cards. Check out Truecrypt if you're interested and look it over closely. You will be amazed how easy and effective it can be. RE sim cards. If you have an unlocked phone you can replace the sim card when you want a different number and a sim card is a lot easier to hide than a phone.

Still things can always go wrong. I wrote earlier about a lovely fresh 23 year old escort in Canada I hired through an agency and stupidly told I was single. Why should she care? I told her I was mid 50's but said I was divorced. The agency had my real name. Somehow she got it and called my home, the warden picked up. The girl was furious and started screaming. WTF, the girl was a [I][B]23 year old escort[/B][/I]! The warden thought it was a crank call and threatened the girl with the police. Whew. That was about 10 years ago now but it still gives me the creeps. Weird but true story.

Another unanticipated security breach came when I left an SB in a nice hotel bar, gave her my room number and asked her to join me. When she showed up 15 minutes later she was drunk. My bill from the hotel had several extra charges on it. I complained by email but they never responded and I dropped it. To this day I worry the girl used my room number to order drinks to fortify her nerves when I left and the bar man sympathetically looked up my name for her.

So you can't anticipate everything.

I also agree with Scott that the pursuit is half (well nearly) the fun.

Good hunting to you all.

I'm trying this on seeking arrangements and was wondering what you approach is. I'm used to online dating sites so not sure how to open.

Z

Gentlemen,

Well, I learn something new every day! A friend pm'ed me after reading my post of helpful hints and observations concerning security, and informed me that my clever, super-secret, on-line only credit card had a serious flaw that could easily land me in some very deep, and very hot, water. If my SO, or my accountant, were to get a hold of a credit report, that account would show up, and subsequently be open to review or at least questions, the answers to which would spell my certain doom. He suggested instead getting a shell account, which basically I use for innocent purposes, then use cash to purchase at the same bank pre-paid cards to use when charging is unavoidable.

As for the incriminating account, the advice is to close it pronto, clear out the money (it actually is a debit card attached to a savings account) and pray that it just appears as a closed account. Since I am in the process of eliminating as much cc debt as I can, and closing accounts as I can, this will hopefully not arouse any suspicion. I am off to the bank to negotiate such a thing as soon as I hit "upload". Hope I did not lead anyone astray on this. I wanted to get the word out as quickly as possible. If anyone has any other ideas about anonymous debit cards and how to secure them, I think now might be a good time to share.

On another topic, my workout session with my ATF this afternoon was noteworthy for her inclusion of certain toys, which I had not had any experience with up until now. Subject of another post, I feel, but may I just say HOT! And the vocals!

All the best,

Scott

Welcome back Lit!

Thanks to all my brothers out there for the concern about me whining like a baby over my HYB. Affairs of the heart are a difficult thing and this SB is my first departure from multifucking that I engaged in over the past 2+ years. I went from 1 to 2 escorts / week to monogamy. As an update I discussed my concerns about my SB's suspected reentry into the SD market and she assured me that she wasn't looking and things are grand with us. Who knows? Maybe she is playing me at my own game, but I choose to believe her. So.I am spending all of my play $$$ on her so in order to spread my seed I would need to back off from her. Ergo, since I am totally satisfied with her services, I 'm sticking with monogamy.

[QUOTE=Zman429; 1351261]I'm trying this on seeking arrangements and was wondering what you approach is. I'm used to online dating sites so not sure how to open.

Z[/QUOTE]Welcome Z,

If this pans out for you the way it has for certain others of us, I predict you will never go back to whatever it was you were doing before. That said, some time reading this marvelous thread, perhaps back to its very inception, should provide you with all the tools needed to get your fly on the water, at the very least. Practice and patience are then up to you.

If you have specific questions on specific issues, I think you will find any of the brothers here more than willing to share hints and insight. My general technique for all my fishing is to use a combination of politeness, circumspection and manners. These babies are, for the most part, amateurs who may or may not be fully aware of the details themselves, and will need to be coaxed into bed, not shoved. How you do the coaxing, and what you use for a lure, will get you a certain kind of baby. Remember, though, that very few of them are unaware of what the true nature of these kinds of sites is all about. As has been said, you are not meeting them at a health club, but you still don't want to treat them like anything less than ladies, in my opinion.

RTF, grasshopper, and you will find that which you seek, and after you have read the thread, spend some time reading baby profiles, paying close attention to the ones that you respond to yourself. They will tell you what they want you to say - "music, arts, museums, night in snuggling, night out at a nice restaurant, travel, creativity, gentleman, intelligent, love to read, love movies, etc etc." If these are things you can produce, you will have no problems.

My one cardinal rule you must never break: do not send them a picture of lower case z, ever. They will swim back to their holding spots and never rise for you again.

Let us know how things progress,

Scott

[QUOTE=Literal2;1351090]Fix, I was interested to read your story. I've got theories about this. One is if you fuck a babe repeatedly over a long time you are likely to develop real feelings (another is, the way to a woman's heart is through her vagina). I can see how you could get attached and I hope when the break comes it's not too painful. As others have observed, the multifucking offered by the sb world can make the transition easier. I am curious about how this brings you closer to your SO. I would think it would bring you closer to splitting up.[/QUOTE]I like your theories. Besides the fact that I was attracted to my HCB it was the repetition and intimacy that did me in. When the break comes I hope to have other interests to lessen the pain.

It doesn't bring me closer to splitting up but it makes me appreciate my SO for what she does have to offer if that makes any sense. I almost want to invest some of my efforts into my SO to see if the sex life can be rejuvenated but I know I would miss the variety that life has to offer. There were reasons why I always have chased the variety.

Quick story for today. My HCB stopped by my office for an hour today. We talked and then we were about to have some fun. The problem is she got a phone call and needed to run before we could really get into it. Sure I was disappointed but she asked if we can continue this tomorrow and of course I said yes. On her way out she asked if she could have some sugar. I gave her. 3 and she was happy. Then stupid me initiated an overnight next week which she was all for. This is what gets me emotionally attached. I need to keep this fun and away from things you would do in a relationship but damn it will be a fun night. I guess that is why the saying goes "No Pain No Gain".

Fix

Gentlemen,

In looking over the current offerings on SA, I came across the new profile of a baby who used to work for me! She was (is) a stunningly hot Latina spinner, and is clearly looking to find her new turning point, so to speak. Why couldn't it be little Scottie? I had a huge hard-on for her back in the day, and spent many a happy drive home thinking about coming upon her in the copy room late in the day, all alone, bending over to get more toner, and me running my hands over her small but perfect ass, then up under her impossibly short skirt.

Oh sorry, where was I?

This would be idiocy of the first order, right? Or could it be a cold war of sorts: I know she knows that I know what she's up to, and vice-versa, so is it mutually-assured destruction? She is not married, but she does have an incredibly strict mother, who used to stand outside the office waiting for her every night after work to escort her safely home. I used to tell her the best thing she could ever do for herself would be to run away from home and get as far away from la madre as possible. Clearly she is trying to break out and forge a new life for herself. Why couldn't I be of some assistance? Someone please talk me back from this precipice, or encourage me that there is no real danger except sore muscles from fucking her too much.

On the other hand, I have cast my fly towards half a dozen sprightly-seeming little babies, and am awaiting the responses, so perhaps this should remain where it has been for the past five years, safely tucked away under the heading "fantasy that should never be pursued."

I just hope I don't run across one of my friends' daughter's profile. Awkward.

Scott

Lit, no, I never did. My rules are: 1) If they don't have a picture, especially if they're single and under 30, chances are they either don't understand what they're doing or aren't serious. There are a *lot* of these women that fall into one or both of those categories, but the ones without pictures seem much more likely to be that way. 2) No pros, ever. This means escorts, dancers, massage providers and similar. These girls invariably have a much more mercenary attitude about it all. I've broken this rule a couple times, and ended up regretting it *every* time. 3) As mentioned before, I generally avoid black girls under 30, because they are often ghetto and usually drama-filled. But then, I tend to avoid girls below 30 regardless of race, as they often have unrealistic expectations in a number of areas.

As for my hot South African, our play-date got postponed to tomorrow. However, we did have a discussion of sugar today, and I learned that she has some serious GPS. I explained again my limitations and abilities in this area, and we agreed to that for this meeting. It will be interesting to see if this goes past tomorrow's meeting, and how her performance is impacted.

[QUOTE=Zman429; 1351261]I'm trying this on seeking arrangements and was wondering what you approach is. I'm used to online dating sites so not sure how to open.

Z[/QUOTE]Z, I join in welcoming you to the thread. I was here for months but came back recently.

Why? Because the mongers here are supportive, man.

Be sure to let us know when you fuck a sugarbabe, which you will surely do if you persist, reading and applying the sugarbabe tech in these posts. If you don't, come back for support and advice. It's all cool,

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1351389]As for my hot South African, our play-date got postponed to tomorrow. However, we did have a discussion of sugar today, and I learned that she has some serious GPS. I explained again my limitations and abilities in this area, and we agreed to that for this meeting. It will be interesting to see if this goes past tomorrow's meeting, and how her performance is impacted.[/QUOTE]Win,

I had a similar situation when I was in my first multi-fucking stage, and I'm sorry to report that it was less than satisfying. While the baby did show up, take her clothes off, and spread her legs, I had the distinct feeling she was not bringing her A game, and when things reached their inevitable conclusion, we parted in awkward silence, never to meet again. I sincerely hope I am not presaging your future tomorrow, my friend, but if so, remember you have a supportive band of brothers here who are willing to call her names on your behalf. Also, you can always abort the mission, although I will freely admit it is hard for [B]me[/B] to forgo a good look at a naked baby once I have it penciled into my calendar. I am petitioning the god of SDs, (again, Bacchus? Priapus?) that he should smile upon you in your endeavors tomorrow, and thus bring you to your hoped-for resolution.

If all goes well, we would certainly love to hear about it, especially, (for me) , anything she says in what I imagine to be her aphrodisiacal accent. Could I have her number? I just want her to talk dirty to me.

Best of luck, and don't forget to write,

Scott

Turns out, she's more of a pro than she let on. Thanks to a fellow traveler who guessed who she might be based on my description and PMed me her website link, you can see her too:

[url]http://www.ohdayne.com/#!__my-portfolio[/url]

Part of me is pissed, because I made it clear at the start that I wasn't interested in pros. In fairness, her site tries to emphasize that she prefers what amounts to SB type arrangements, but the fact that her site is hosted on an escort-hosting mega-site, that she wants Date-Check type references, and that she lists single-engagement rates in addition to the long-term arrangements rates, all smack of escort. But I bet a look at her photos will make it clear why I was interested.

First, Happy New Year all. May you find wetness between the thighs of all the Babies you're after. I have several SB reports I owe the group but this happend to me last night and it just can't wait. All of my SB's but one have been in a city two hours from me. I have switched to SA from SD4me and noticed some very nice local ones so I decided to see what was up. So there is one (22yr old college student. 5'10, nicely built with a great rack) who we had switched to email to continue our dance. She sent me some semi-nude pics where I could see the rack was more than nice. A couple more emails back and forth and I told her that I was trying to decide between her and another SB. So I get a email from her last night, with a video attached, that said "just for you." So I opened it and much to my surprise, there she was, all 5'11, stretched out naked on a bed. She then starts to masturbate, all the while talking dirty using my name. I can see the fluids on her thighs, as she gets really raunchy and cums. I am so hard by this time that I thought both my heads were going to explode. Have you ever heard of such a thing? Is this what the young folks do these days? (God I wish I was young) I have never experienced any thing like this in my life. It totally blew my mind. I have to tell you my decision is made and I'm going to get between those thighs my self just as soon as I can. It was a great way to start the New Year.

Welcome back Lit. It was you who got me started on the SB path and encouraged me to hang in there when I wasn't having much luck for months on end. Thank you for making me the Baby fucker I am today.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1351389](Edit Delete) As for my hot South African, our play-date got postponed to tomorrow. However, we did have a discussion of sugar today, and I learned that she has some serious GPS. I explained again my limitations and abilities in this area, and we agreed to that for this meeting. It will be interesting to see if this goes past tomorrow's meeting, and how her performance is impacted.[/QUOTE]This is my cue to chime in and say both sides must get along naturally without effort or it won't work. This includes nobody having to compromise on the sugar. Both sides need to be happy with the number. It's been August 11 since I've spouted off about this so I guess I'm not a broken record.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin; 1351512]Turns out, she's more of a pro than she let on. Thanks to a fellow traveler who guessed who she might be based on my description and PMed me her website link, you can see her too:

[url]http://www.ohdayne.com/#!__my-portfolio[/url]

(Edit Delete) [/QUOTE]Her site says the guy pays in advance, not at the encounter.

A negotiating male is the other side of the golden pussy syndrome. We will appear to her as she appears to us. Plus we are using money as power. It doesn't work if being happy is the goal.

I would not meet her tomorrow. Somebody is going to be unhappy.

If I met her I would not let on I know about the website. No upside.

Golf, that's sort of what I'm thinking. I do feel a little deceived, and it's going to be hard for me to see her as an honest SB. On the other hand, none of us or them are always 100% all the time. I'm curious about her performance, and she agreed to a level of sugar with which I can be comfortable. If this ends up being a one-off, I don't see how it can be worse than several escorts I've paid similar or higher dollar for that were one-offs. But I agree that raising the issue of the web site serves no good purpose. Now.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1351269]Gentlemen,

Hope I did not lead anyone astray on this. I wanted to get the word out as quickly as possible. If anyone has any other ideas about anonymous debit cards and how to secure them, I think now might be a good time to share.[/QUOTE]Scott, I use cash for everything except hotels. The best I've been able to do with a credit card for hotels is this. I have several cc's which I do not try to conceal. One of them is tied to a former business and its po box. I get the statements online and pay the bill online from an account also tied to the po box and also with no paper statements. When I register at a hotel I use the po box address. The warden knows about the ccs and the accounts but doesn't try to monitor them, never sees a statement because there's no paper, and would have a difficult time doing so. If anybody ordered a credit report on me, which would be without my consent, they might get the balance and payment history for the cc but not the detail. For me it's easier to conceal transactions within a known account than to try to conceal the account. As always, we aren't talking about being able to conceal this stuff from the leo or the IRS, so I don't take tax deductions on any sb related activity.

I'm curious about prepaid debit cards but I like streamlining sb security to the extent possible and it seems like an extra step. But as you say, we live and learn.

Great posts on the thread these days.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1351285]Affairs of the heart are a difficult thing and this SB is my first departure from multifucking that I engaged in over the past 2+ years. I went from 1 to 2 escorts / week to monogamy.[/QUOTE]Nando, you are a romantic. I'll say this: sex with emotion is always better than sex without it. It's just those damned entanglements.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=Steveoo41; 1351363]I hope you guys can help me out. I was presented with an opportunity for some Nsa from a co-worker. She told me straight up she wants to fuck. No commitment involved. Just do the damn thing and if we like it, do it some more until one of us says no.

I would much rather pfp. But she is hot as hell. Both us have SO. My only concern is the work issue. We don't work together every day, but communicate almost daily. This lady is ready asap. Bored at home and says she is dying for some 41.

I want to but the work thing scares the shit out of me.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]That's a tempting proposition from your co-worker. Nobody will be surprised if you accept.

The posts on this thread are about sbs of course and many are about keeping those relationships as anonymous and confidential as possible.

An office affair is completely different.

I sure wish I knew how to handle an office affair without consequence. I had one years ago and it led to years of divorce proceedings and financial drain. I was as discreet as I could be, but the entire office seemed to know about the affair within a matter of weeks if not days. It is amazing what people notice. Who you take calls from, who you eat lunch with, who you sit next to, whose jokes you laugh at, whether you disappear at the same time, whether you look like you've taken a shower, all that shit. Many of your co-workers are probably watching out all the time for any kind of excuse to start gossiping about somebody's affair with somebody, because thats just what people do. And once your co-workers figure it out they will find ways of telling your SOs.

All of the above assumes that your affair will truly be nsa and most of them aren't.

These things are very likely to blow up either your marriage or your job or both.

So, Steve, you should ask yourself,"Do I feel lucky?"

Have you considered anonymous multifucking as an alternative? SBs offer much of the intimacy of an affair and a better chance of preserving your privacy. Anyway, thats my opinion.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1351442]*** you can always abort the mission, although I will freely admit it is hard for [B]me[/B] to forgo a good look at a naked baby once I have it penciled into my calendar.[/QUOTE]It is hard, I agree, but you have to be able to walk away, even if that means you waste the setup costs. Sometimes, when the girl sees you'll do that, it changes her attitude. It's best to have a backup female you can call at the last minute for ejaculatory relief. Sometimes I make a list of local escorts and keep it handy when meeting an sb for the first time.

[QUOTE=Coolhand2;1351516]So I get a email from her last night, with a video attached, that said "just for you." So I opened it and much to my surprise, there she was, all 5'11, stretched out naked on a bed. She then starts to masturbate, all the while talking dirty using my name. I can see the fluids on her thighs, as she gets really raunchy and cums. I am so hard by this time that I thought both my heads were going to explode. Have you ever heard of such a thing? Is this what the young folks do these days? (God I wish I was young) I have never experienced any thing like this in my life. It totally blew my mind. I have to tell you my decision is made and I'm going to get between those thighs my self just as soon as I can. It was a great way to start the New Year.[/QUOTE]That is amazing. Lucky you. Well done, Cool! I've had them send me pussy pix but that's it.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1351593]Golf, that's sort of what I'm thinking. I do feel a little deceived, and it's going to be hard for me to see her as an honest SB. On the other hand, none of us or them are always 100% all the time. I'm curious about her performance, and she agreed to a level of sugar with which I can be comfortable. If this ends up being a one-off, I don't see how it can be worse than several escorts I've paid similar or higher dollar for that were one-offs. But I agree that raising the issue of the web site serves no good purpose. Now.[/QUOTE]I agree with Golf. Don't let her know you know about the website. That being said, the sugar she refers to looks quite reasonable if she's the girl in the pix. I hope you go fo it and tell us all about it.

[QUOTE=Steveoo41;1351363]I would much rather pfp.[/QUOTE]And continuing to do so will cost you less in the long run.

[QUOTE=Steveoo41;1351363]I want to but the work thing scares the shit out of me.[/QUOTE]And it probably should scare you. Ask yourself, if the word got around the company that you were banging your co-worker: 1) would it cost you your job? 2) could you easily replace your job with equal or better income with no downside? 3) would you regret getting involved with miss hotpants, if and when this thing goes to hell in a hand-basket? 4) if it came down to this, it would be the ultimate pfp, wouldn't it.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1351387]* coming upon her in the copy room late in the day, all alone, bending over to get more toner, and me running my hands over her small but perfect ass, then up under her impossibly short skirt*

This would be idiocy of the first order, right? *Someone please talk me back from this precipice, or encourage me that there is no real danger except sore muscles from fucking her too much.[/QUOTE]Right.

You know the answer already. It would be foolish if you care about security. She'll be thinking about settling down with full size Scott about 30 seconds after she realizes it is you. She will never fuck you without consequence. She'll view the fucking as a forward progression in a pre-existing relationship.

But good luck and let us know what you do.