"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=John252;2388333]Blackmail / extortion.

Anyone here have experience they care to share?

Dealing with it, and not well.[/QUOTE]Been blackmailed 2 times. One was an Escort and one SB. The problem is only if they know who you are IRL. They threaten to make your activities public. Paid both off basically the value of a visit with them. Told them I would call the police if they came back to the well again, and they did not.

How do you avoid it?

1) keep anonymous is the best but hard to do in a longer term relationship.

2) stay away from Nando 1's Desperately poor girls have nothing to lose and much to gain.

3) end arrangements well. Do not blow them up and piss them off.

One of the main reasons not to give out real life information. Even my regular babies don't have my real life personal information. I use a throwaway e-mail account and a trac phone for all communications. I know a lot of brothers don't use hotels because of the added expense, but this is also one of the reasons why I'll never bring a baby back to my personal residence. For single SDs in the bowl, not that big of a deal (unless the girl is threatening to claim that you physically assaulted her and will go to the police her if you don't pay her out. At which point if you brought her back home then it won't matter if you gave her a fake name and number since she knows where you live) but for SDs with SOs its a whole different ball of wax.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I'm assuming that the blackmail / extortion scam relates to threats to expose your activities to your SO, report you for what she is now claiming to be unwanted physical contact to authorities, and / or show up at your place of work to make a scene and damage your career.

A few things to consider:

1. If you keep paying her out what she wants, when she demands it, then you give her no incentive to stop.

2. If you don't have a written trail helping to document your side of the story (I. E. This woman is extorting me for money) then you put yourself at greater risk if she is threatening you by claiming you physically assaulted her and will go to the police. If she goes through with the threat, your life will suck no matter what, but if you have a written trail proving that she was threatening / extorting you, you increase your chances of nipping things in the bud and proving your side of the story. Rather than turning it into a "he said, she said. ".

3. A person has to have a lot of nerve to follow through with a threat and its all about who has more to lose. If you can convince her that you no longer have anything to lose (e. G. You're going to divorce your wife anyway, your switching jobs, you have a written trail exposing her extortion and so the authorities won't believe her claims), then you might be able to shift the balance of power. Prepare yourself as best you can, and then call her bluff.

At the end of the day though, if you don't do anything to stop the behavior, then you're going to have to be prepared to be her personal ATM until she move on (which isn't likely if you're her personal ATM) or until you decide to put an end to her behavior and call her bluff. The longer you wait, the more money you will end up paying out.

Just my two cents. If you share more details (by posting or via PM), I'm happy to provide more thoughts if you're interested.

[QUOTE=John252;2388333]Blackmail / extortion.

Anyone here have experience they care to share?

Dealing with it, and not well.[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for SD4 me, but my understanding is that SA lets babies with pictures message for free, but limits the number of messages they can send. The rules on SA are different for SDs and SBs, and are set up to maximize the number of SBs who will post pics, while trying to get everyone to pay for premium memberships. I noticed that even the price structure is different. Pricing for SB premium membership is about 1/2 or 1/3 of what a SD has to pay.

If a young lady doesn't want to pay for a premium membership that will allow unlimited messaging, and is trying to use one of these sites to increase volume of daddies or to avoid posting an ad on BP, moving to kik lets her message for free after making contact through the site.

A Skype session lets a SB or SD confirm that the other party is as pictured. Like us, many of these SBs show up to a date and find that the guys pictures are 10 years old and 50 lbs ago. Not as big of a deal for a SB since they are there for the financial sugar, but some SBs are picky. It also give them the chance to "vet" the guy to make sure he isn't a pyscho or crazy. Not that I believe you could figure that information out during a Skype session, but I suspect it helps some girls who are too scared to meet in person at first.

Also, there are some SBs that will try to convince you to have and "online" Skype relationship akin to paying for a camgirl session. I guess there are enough guys out there who are willing to paypal a girls account to see her strip and play with herself that some girls push the Skype "relationship" thing.

[QUOTE=Bowtie;2388453]Question, what would be the advantage or reason for a young lady to push to take the conversation to Kik or Skype? I get a copy / paste response from a young lady from one of the baby sites, busted her out on it, got a real response back but the entire time she is pushing for Kik and Skype over texting, phone call or email. Scam? Thanks![/QUOTE]

Smelly, I think you are on to something regarding the last point. The site is what's your price, not sure of their rules however she does have email access so I don't think its related to her cost nor did she seem overly concerned about security or safety. The canned response raised the flag to me, your idea about trying to start a Skype for pay thing seems very likely. I'll see where it goes, maybe get a free show before I dump her ass! Glad I got my regulars, damn glad!

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2388719]I can't speak for SD4 me, but my understanding is that SA lets babies with pictures message for free, but limits the number of messages they can send. The rules on SA are different for SDs and SBs, and are set up to maximize the number of SBs who will post pics, while trying to get everyone to pay for premium memberships. I noticed that even the price structure is different. Pricing for SB premium membership is about 1/2 or 1/3 of what a SD has to pay.

If a young lady doesn't want to pay for a premium membership that will allow unlimited messaging, and is trying to use one of these sites to increase volume of daddies or to avoid posting an ad on BP, moving to kik lets her message for free after making contact through the site.

A Skype session lets a SB or SD confirm that the other party is as pictured. Like us, many of these SBs show up to a date and find that the guys pictures are 10 years old and 50 lbs ago. Not as big of a deal for a SB since they are there for the financial sugar, but some SBs are picky. It also give them the chance to "vet" the guy to make sure he isn't a pyscho or crazy. Not that I believe you could figure that information out during a Skype session, but I suspect it helps some girls who are too scared to meet in person at first.

Also, there are some SBs that will try to convince you to have and "online" Skype relationship akin to paying for a camgirl session. I guess there are enough guys out there who are willing to paypal a girls account to see her strip and play with herself that some girls push the Skype "relationship" thing.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2388402]After meeting up with her after a long weekend and blowing my fun money I only had $$$ to get the conversation going. I slipped the cash to her while having drinks at a bar. We had the discussion after FC, which may have helped. Her expectation was up to $5 K. Settled on $1. 6 K min. A month and continuing great dates. Working towards the monthly has been in the form of gifts mostly. She wanted a spa treatment, a parking decal, etc. We never mentioned a certain number of days per month. She's introduced me to a couple of her girlfriends and we're starting to meet regularly. A couple times for coffee and conversation. FC is setup for this weekend.

I'm even pretty impressed with myself in this situation. I banged her so thoroughly, she should be paying me. She mentioned that all the gifts and the great sex was like hitting the lottery.[/QUOTE]Hopefully the 1. 6 k a month covers at least 1 overnight visit a week.

You could probably report the individual to the site and ask that her profile be suspended. That being said, she could just as easily set up another profile. Depending on how everything happened, you could report her to the police. Of course, if you gave her your money voluntarily and then left because of the very awkward situation created when her friends came in yelling and screaming, the cops will probably tell you that you're wasting your time. If her friends came in with a weapon and threatened you for your money, that's a different situation entirely and probably should be reported to the cops (unless you have an SO and don't want to have to explain why you have to go to court to testify against some young girl who scammed you).

As a general rule, I don't provide the allowance until after the date has ended. Also, unlike Backpage scams, there are no laws that I'm aware of that criminalize being a SD. If you find yourself in an awkward situation like that again, you can always pull out your cellphone, dial 911, and hit the speaker phone. Remember, you're a SD, not a "john".

Posting her pics here on this forum is helpful since it will prevent any forum members / lurkers / readers from contacting her. A good lesson though.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2388316]Where's a good place to report scammer rom [URL]SeekingArrangement.com[/URL]?

She runs a typical scam. It happened to me, avoid:

She lures you into her place with promises of sex, takes your money, as you are taking clothes of, her friends knock on the dor and come in, yelling and scremaing.

You get the point.

Sweet girl, sweet body, total scam.

Avoid.

See her pictures below.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2388316]Where's a good place to report scammer rom [URL]SeekingArrangement.com[/URL]?
She runs a typical scam. It happened to me, avoid:
She lures you into her place with promises of sex, takes your money, as you are taking clothes of, her friends knock on the dor and come in, yelling and scremaing.
You get the point.
Sweet girl, sweet body, total scam.
Avoid.
See her pictures below.[/QUOTE]No offense man but did you really think this was a sugar baby with a tagline like "if you want it come get it"?

I know there are escorts that use SB sites as alternative marketing, but if there was ever anything of value to be gained from this gigantic monolithic thread full of nothingness, it should be that it taught one or two people to understand the difference between an escort and an SB. And yes, if you patronize escorts, eventually you'll get scammed. Real SBs might be gold diggers, they might be GPS, they might be bitches, sometimes they are downright nuts, extortion and blackmail is even possible just as it is with dating any crazy girl -- but in general you don't have to worry about the lower echelon of hooker robberies like this type of scam.

However, if people continue to use the SD / SB scene as a front for escorting, it's only a matter of time before regulation finds a way to shut down the activity and put the websites out of business. It's no different than revoking the liquor license of bars and nightclubs because of evidence of recurring illegal activity -- serving beer isn't illegal, but if residents complain or if cops keep getting called, it won't matter in the end, it will be bye-bye fun times.

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was going to be a legitimate attempt to educate the masses on the difference between SBs and escorts.

Yet somehow I get the feeling that zero progress has been made.

Just for the record, no legitimate SB would ever invite you to her place for the first meeting. If she does that, she is a hardened pro.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2388778]As a general rule, I don't provide the allowance until after the date has ended. Also, unlike Backpage scams, there are no laws that I'm aware of that criminalize being a SD. If you find yourself in an awkward situation like that again, you can always pull out your cellphone, dial 911, and hit the speaker phone. Remember, you're a SD, not a "john".
[/QUOTE]The problem is that once someone has exchanged an e-mail agreeing to an amount of money for the FC, in the eyes of most courts they are now a john. There have been some cases posted here to USASG in the past where the SD was arrested simply because the girl told the cops that money was exchanged for intimacy. The court may have problem getting an actual conviction depending on how much someone is willing to spend on a lawyer, but by that time the SD's mugshot is the first thing to come up in a Google search on his name, in perpetuity, affecting his career / family etc.

This is one of the reasons I never talk money with girls. Bang-them, then gift them the way I see fit. No discussion of money ever takes place.

JL. I agree that your approach of not ever discussing allowance is probably a best practice. Of course, as you yourself noted in a prior post, not setting expectations can lead to having a pissed off SB who is upset at the gift you provided if she thinks it is too low. As FredMoore noted, making sure a SB relationship ends well helps to avoid situations that involve Blackmail / Extortion. Of course if you're good at reading people, and have a pretty good sense of whether a SB will think a gift is too low, or have the ability to avoid girls who will do something crazy if she doesn't like the gift you gave her, then as an SD one wouldn't ever have a need to ever discuss expectations. You are probably experienced enough in life and the bowl to able to cull pots before trips to the FC and wouldn't ever put yourself in such a situation, but there are others, who are newer to the bowl, who lack that ability. For them, a trip to the FC might not ever happen without discussion of expectations at some point.

I also agree that involving the cops in any situation can ruin family life, career, etc. Which is why I caveated my recommendation to the OP on the thread we're discussing by pointing out that someone with an SO might not want to deal with the repercussions of involving the law. That being said, my recommendation for involving the law was meant to be caveated generally for if and when physical violence was involved. Your response to my post appears to only have included half of my recommendation. The other relevant portion of my response to the OP is in quotes below.

"Depending on how everything happened, you could report her to the police. Of course, if you gave her your money voluntarily and then left because of the very awkward situation created when her friends came in yelling and screaming, the cops will probably tell you that you're wasting your time. If her friends came in with a weapon and threatened you for your money, that's a different situation entirely and probably should be reported to the cops (unless you have an SO and don't want to have to explain why you have to go to court to testify against some young girl who scammed you). ".

IMHO, if a guy who is new to the Sugar Scene is threatened with physical violence for their money by a SB scammer, that individual should be going to the police, unless it has the potential to destroy their life (e. G. Their relationship with their SO / destroy their career, etc.). If he doesn't go to the police, then scammers who are threatening people with physical violence remain in the bowl, have no incentive to take their act elsewhere, will continue to scam others, and might actually end up hurting someone (which will definitely draw attention to the sugar scene).

On the other hand, if the guy just got taken for a ride (I. E. No violence or threat of violence involved), then tough luck, lesson learned, and no need to go to the cops since they'll probably tell him that no crime was committed and that he shouldn't be going to the houses of strangers with money in hand and expectations of intimacy.

Just my two cents.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2388839]The problem is that once someone has exchanged an e-mail agreeing to an amount of money for the FC, in the eyes of most courts they are now a john. There have been some cases posted here to USASG in the past where the SD was arrested simply because the girl told the cops that money was exchanged for intimacy. The court may have problem getting an actual conviction depending on how much someone is willing to spend on a lawyer, but by that time the SD's mugshot is the first thing to come up in a Google search on his name, in perpetuity, affecting his career / family etc.

This is one of the reasons I never talk money with girls. Bang-them, then gift them the way I see fit. No discussion of money ever takes place.[/QUOTE]

JeezLizard and others.

Please don't jump to conclusions with limited details here.

I saw her before, at that same apartment, with a friend of hers, nothing sexual. This was not the first meet.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2388832]No offense man but did you really think this was a sugar baby with a tagline like "if you want it come get it"? ... Just for the record, no legitimate SB would ever invite you to her place for the first meeting. If she does that, she is a hardened pro.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2388875]JL. I agree that your approach of not ever discussing allowance is probably a best practice. Of course, as you yourself noted in a prior post, not setting expectations can lead to having a pissed off SB who is upset at the gift you provided if she thinks it is too low. [/QUOTE]Would you mind to cite the post you're referring to? If I conveyed it that way, I must have done a careless job of communicating my thoughts, or simply been thinking in another context. What I may have been trying to say is that *if* you enter into some sort of agreement with a girl, then the expectations on both ends should be well understood. By that I mean if you've been to the FC with someone a few times, but you want her to be exclusive arm candy, not see other SDs, move in or whatever and are offering a specific allowance for that, then yes I do believe it is important for both sides to know what they are getting into.

But I have never advocated agreement to pay for the first FC visit or a per-fuck amount. That aspect of my position has never changed. I also have never tried to tell someone else to change the methods that work for them in their particular geographic market, I only offer advice based on how I do it. I've mentioned sometimes I have to cut them loose before I ever meet them because they want to talk money, but it's not like women are in short supply, so it's worth it to focus on quality versus quantity and just move on to someone else who doesn't demand a money agreement before trying each other out in the FC.

I look at it like this: I want SBs who genuinely like sex. The last thing I want is to pay someone to ACT like they are enjoying fucking me when they really aren't. So, if they really do want to fuck me, I shouldn't have to wave a handful of cash, travelers checks, booksfull of S&H Greenstamps or whatever just to get them to drop their panties -- that's an act of desperation. Sure, there will be some girls that demand that, there's a name for them -- escorts (and there is a time and place for escorts I just don't think SD dating is either). There is an entire additional category of women who are attracted to successful men, would like the financial security of dating one, but also genuinely enjoy fucking them. The approach I recommend tends to attract that type and scare off all the rest.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2388875]
As FredMoore noted, making sure a SB relationship ends well helps to avoid situations that involve Blackmail / Extortion.
[/QUOTE]I am all for anything that prevents the blackmail or extortion, but to me, the first step in minimizing that sort of thing is to avoid contact with folks who are already involving themselves in illegal activity in the first place. Any SB (or female) for that matter is capable of turning on us, but an escort is more likely to have other issues (lack of stability, drug problems, perhaps even existing criminal record etc.) that makes them more likely candidates for trouble.

I agree that we should exercise good social skills and judgment at all times to minimize trouble, regardless of the situation. I just think that folks need to be very careful before involving the police at all. Try to get out of the situation before it gets to that point. There was a story on here a while back about a guy that had been seeing these two girls regularly for many months. One day almost out of no where they get pissed of at him while riding in his car, and pull a knife and threaten him with it. So he bolts, abandoning his car, and calls the cops. They tell the cops he has been giving them "allowance" to meet him and all three of them go to jail, his mug on the news. You would think he would know them well enough after a few months of regular fucking to either avoid or defuse a situation like that, but you can never be sure with women. They are all just one PMS episode away from doing something unimaginable. So, in order to prepare for that day, we should be sure we didn't leave a paper trail of any illegal behaviors.

I also want to say that in terms of pros, I'm no angel. One thing I like to do is hit up strippers for takeout. Those that will are pros by definition. I'm not looking down on those who do hire escorts in anyway, there is a time and place for them. I'm just saying that once an SD visits a girl regularly, there is an increased chance of something to go wrong and into the direction of blackmail/extortion. It's better to be prepared when the shit hits the fan with nothing like emails or texts proving you offered money for sex.

Looks like I confused a post from FredMoore and attributed it to you. Sorry about that (your name was referenced in the post, which may be why I attributed it to you).

Like FredMoore, I personally prefer discussing the arrangement before hand for a variety of reasons. I also prefer talking about it in person, face to face, for a variety of reasons, including not having a paper trail. Mostly I don't want, as FredMoore so aptly put it, a hot girl hunting me down because of differences in expectations.

IMHO, everything is situational. So hypothetically speaking, if a girl was extorting me for money by threatening me with physical assault charges, and seemed like she was crazy enough to go to the police, I would probably try to get a paper trail ASAP. Since I personally would rather deal with fighting a solicitation charge than a physical assault charge. Hypothetically if I was being held up after walking into a sbs house, I would probably call the cops since I'd rather be in jail than dead. If I got taken for my money (which has happened) I would do (and have done) what the OP did. Which is post info on this website to warn others.

While being arrested has the potential to damage ones life, a good lawyer should be able to keep you out of jail (depending on how careful one is). So while I tend to view things sitiationally, my general rule of thumb is that if physical harm to you or someone else is in imminent danger of physical harm, the police should probably be involved.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2355958]JL is unique and must be date worthy for these babies (picture brad Pitt) Unless you are an uber generous tipper, and I mean $300 up per visit, you run the risk of having a pissed off or disappointed Baby. My ATF 19 yr old is a case in point. We never discussed money. She came to my apartment and we ended up having the most energetic sex of my career. I dropped $200 in her purse and took her home. When I called her for a 2nd date she said her goal was $800 for her years books for school. I explained that 3 more times together and she had it banked, but she did not see it that way. Words were exchanged -tightwad and asshole featured prominently in the tirade. You do not want an angry girl hunting you down. So get it straight up front. The good news is I got to bang an incredibly hot girl who would never have come for $$ had she known in advance.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2389095]Looks like I confused a post from FredMoore and attributed it to you. Sorry about that (your name was referenced in the post, which may be why I attributed it to you).

Like FredMoore, I personally prefer discussing the arrangement before hand for a variety of reasons. I also prefer talking about it in person, face to face, for a variety of reasons, including not having a paper trail. Mostly I don't want, as FredMoore so aptly put it, a hot girl hunting me down because of differences in expectations.

IMHO, everything is situational. So hypothetically speaking, if a girl was extorting me for money by threatening me with physical assault charges, and seemed like she was crazy enough to go to the police, I would probably try to get a paper trail ASAP. Since I personally would rather deal with fighting a solicitation charge than a physical assault charge. Hypothetically if I was being held up after walking into a sbs house, I would probably call the cops since I'd rather be in jail than dead. If I got taken for my money (which has happened) I would do (and have done) what the OP did. Which is post info on this website to warn others.

While being arrested has the potential to damage ones life, a good lawyer should be able to keep you out of jail (depending on how careful one is). So while I tend to view things sitiationally, my general rule of thumb is that if physical harm to you or someone else is in imminent danger of physical harm, the police should probably be involved.[/QUOTE]I may have posted this before. There is only one case where LE and the SD sites crossed paths. And it really had nothing to do with either one. It was just one individual that was being targeted and the SD site was used to entrap the person. His case was ultimately thrown out of court. That was over 7 years ago.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2389095]Looks like I confused a post from FredMoore and attributed it to you. Sorry about that (your name was referenced in the post, which may be why I attributed it to you).[/QUOTE]NP. I was wondering about that.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2389117]I may have posted this before. There is only one case where LE and the SD sites crossed paths. And it really had nothing to do with either one. It was just one individual that was being targeted and the SD site was used to entrap the person. His case was ultimately thrown out of court. That was over 7 years ago.[/QUOTE]Depends on ones definition of "crossing paths" with regard to LE and SD sites. If you mean LE launching stings from SD sites, I would agree that has not happened much yet. It also did not happen much in the early days of Craigslist, and after LE started using CL regularly it took them a while to start using BP for stings. They will evolve their methods toward SD sites eventually if they appear too high on the radar.

Someone else will need to invest the time to fish out actual links for these, but I have heard of at least five cases in the last year that somehow intertwined LE and SD sites in ways that were not good for the SD (none of them were sting related).

One was the notorious Google exec case, one was the attempted robbery with knife case I mentioned earlier, one was a cop whose case was outlined in detail in the Ohio SB forum here on USASG (he was arrested when they found he was paying an SB he met on SA), and there have been two more cases described on the Dr Phil show since this time last year (I don't watch it but my GF does, so I take notice whenever they talk about sugarbabies).

Those are only the ones I aware of in the last 12 months where it would be disadvantageous for an SD to be caught texting or e-mailing an SB soliciting sex for money.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2389162]Depends on ones definition of "crossing paths" with regard to LE and SD sites. If you mean LE launching stings from SD sites, I would agree that has not happened much yet. It also did not happen much in the early days of Craigslist, and after LE started using CL regularly it took them a while to start using BP for stings. They will evolve their methods toward SD sites eventually if they appear too high on the radar.

Someone else will need to invest the time to fish out actual links for these, but I have heard of at least five cases in the last year that somehow intertwined LE and SD sites in ways that were not good for the SD (none of them were sting related).

One was the notorious Google exec case, one was the attempted robbery with knife case I mentioned earlier, one was a cop whose case was outlined in detail in the Ohio SB forum here on USASG (he was arrested when they found he was paying an SB he met on SA), and there have been two more cases described on the Dr Phil show since this time last year (I don't watch it but my GF does, so I take notice whenever they talk about sugarbabies).

Those are only the ones I aware of in the last 12 months where it would be disadvantageous for an SD to be caught texting or e-mailing an SB soliciting sex for money.[/QUOTE]Yeah. A sting. Girls jacking you is a risk no matter how you meet them (especially at the alter). And CL is the bottom of the barrel. But most stings there are towards the girls. In L. A. They are always looking for girls too young to be there. But I always check ID when suspicious.

Thanks for the discussion thus far.

My little friend has extensive knowledge of this SB, and she of him.

Threats are not physical.

Money vs exposure to job / family / neighbors.

Money amounts escalate.

Good Evening hwg, I appreciate all of your honesty, and that's something I've realized is very important for these type of arrangements to work out. I'm a naughty princess who is willing to become all yours, I've never had an arrangement with anyone off the site or have I've met any one in person yet. Just the other day, I was going to just give up with my search. I'm glad I've came across your email. I look foward to meeting you soon, I would perfer coffee first of course to see if there is chemistry. If you are still interested; just let me know the following days and times your available.


She is so ready. Sugar dating is cutting edge. New rules made everyday. and always a new girl just around the corner.

Soliciting would be easy to set up. A hot agent provocateur could set up M&Gs with a bunch of Pots and get them to offer $ for sex. Bang! Soliciting. Scary thought. Always leave S-E-X out of the discussion. IDK if $ for "time together" or "private time " is enough to take to court. The mere fact of being arrested is all it would take to ruin someone's life or career since the SO and public opinion directs those things anyway. Methinks that LE has too many bigger targets such as Street soliciting, drug sales ands abuse, high volume escorting, pimp involvement, etc to spend their time trying to nab a couple of Pot SDs. In my area prostitution is in the top 10 in the nation and busts are regularly reported where 20 people are snared including Pimps and escorts along with the Johns. CL and BP are high risk indeed for Stings and violence. Could they ever go for the Sugar trade? Yeppp!

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2389779]IDK if $ for "time together" or "private time " is enough to take to court. The mere fact of being arrested is all it would take to ruin someone's life or career since the SO and public opinion directs those things anyway. [/QUOTE]This is the real issue. The amount of reasonable doubt created by any angle of an SD / SB arrangement is way too much for any court to handle, but it doesn't matter. The arrest is all it would take to do the same amount of damage to the life of the SD.

There is a TV show called "Web of Lies" about Internet scams and such that end up in tragedy. A recent episode was about a married professor in Texas, who actually had his wife's permission to pursue internet sex on the side. He had been honest with her about it from the start, and for whatever reason she accepted it as something she could live with. He eventually got involved in cybersex with an 18 year old tranny that was headed toward a M&G, who later revealed themselves to be a minor (after he was already in too deep). Next thing you know, the kids father is calling him staying stay away from my kid. Next, he starts calling saying if the professor doesn't fork over thousands to get the kid therapy, he is going to go public with it all, including informing the university, LE, social media, etc. The professors wife refused to let him pay off his blackmailer. Long story short, it was a guy in his 40's scamming the professor all along, with blackmail planned from the start. But, because the wife wouldn't allow the fund transfer, the blackmailer made good on his promise and posted a lot of details about the encounters on websites, to damage the professors career. Professor sends him a text that says "I'm killing myself now. I'm dead, but you're going to jail for blackmail", then the professor jumped off a parking lot deck killing himself.

Moral of the story I guess is that blackmail is no fun? LOL. Well that, and the fact that career damage is a very real threat to probably 99% of the SDs out there. Anything we do to put that in jeopardy is probably not a good idea.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2389779]
Methinks that LE has too many bigger targets such as Street soliciting, drug sales ands abuse, high volume escorting, pimp involvement, etc to spend their time trying to nab a couple of Pot SDs. In my area prostitution is in the top 10 in the nation and busts are regularly reported where 20 people are snared including Pimps and escorts along with the Johns. CL and BP are high risk indeed for Stings and violence. Could they ever go for the Sugar trade? Yeppp![/QUOTE]I agree that SD sites are not low-hanging fruit for LE stings. There are easier ways for them to score.

Sting operations are not my primary concern. I've been discussing any LE related act that could threaten to shut down SD sites. All it will take is for the feds to decide they want to make this their agenda, and issue a single raid against a single prominent SD site owner, obtaining all the interactions that take place through the site (including the IP addresses linking each of the customers, for which they could then subpoena additional records if needed). Most likely what would happen is the only charges pressed would be against the website owner only. That would send a ripple effect through the industry that could result in changes that would make finding SBs a thousand times more difficult. All they need to do is charge one SD site with some sort of trumped up charge that involves being the facilitator of illegal activity, and the opportunities for SugarDaddying as we know it and discuss it on this thread would be finished -- literally overnight.

This is why I think it's important for us to always stay within the law, do not get complacent about what LE may or may not do, and discourage others from wandering carelessly into the hobby and doing things that draw unwanted legal attention.

Dang! FyrGuy33. You lucky dawg!

Mine gets sore and sometimes bleeds when using the cover and there have been times when it happened BB with a dry pussy and too much sucking. Will the absence of foreskin I. E. Circumcision help?

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2388049]

I sit here tonight with a sore dick from all the sucking and fucking. I am in shock at my luck. I was just about to jump into another premium membership on SA tomorrow. Now I'm going to let that go for now. Never give up guys. You just never know when they will smarten up.

[/QUOTE]

All this talk of Uncle LEO and SD / SB has gotten me worried especially after M&G+FC with the most recent SA babe. No I did not really score she happened to be a short, thick babe within my budget of $ to $. 5.

She texted things like "looking to forward to f* you tomorrow" and when I asked her during FC if she liked to talk dirty she looked nonplussed I then reminded her of the text and she mumbled something. While texting directions to her I received "What are you expectations as far as sex. . positions. . And acts?" "Just trying to go Ahead and prepare myself mentally".

So guys a HOW TO post about staying within the law will be very helpful to us newbies to the bowl.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2390389]So guys a HOW TO post about staying within the law.[/QUOTE]Its kinda like instructions on how to stay sober. Just don't take the first drink.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2390389] So guys a HOW TO post about staying within the law will be very helpful to us newbies to the bowl. [/QUOTE]My advice would be to only gift the girl after banging her. Be realistic with your gift amount, based on how good she is, how much you want to see her again, how much time you spent with her, etc. (I. E. Don't take advantage of it by short-changing her just because you got the nookie up front).

Only discuss money or ongoing fixed allowances with someone you've already banged at least once, and never do it in text or e-mail (in person or phone). Never specify or even allude to exchange of money for sex, even after you know her.

Avoid giving her your real name, or other identifiable info. If you get in a tricky situation, try to defuse and exit the situation ASAP without involving the law.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2390365]Dang! FyrGuy33. You lucky dawg!

Mine gets sore and sometimes bleeds when using the cover and there have been times when it happened BB with a dry pussy and too much sucking. Will the absence of foreskin I. E. Circumcision help?[/QUOTE]There can be soreness with heavy usage of any parts.

If the bleeding is because the foreskin is "pulling" the skin away during sex, then circumcision can help. Of course see a doctor for that and not us internet doctors.

If the bleeding is more on the shaft due to the constant friction, then use lube. You can even use lube to ease the friction with the condom, but be careful it's not too much or it'll slip off. I always have water based lube with me. I don't need to constantly reapply with some girls, but it comes in handy and I use it generously. Just another expense to the hobby.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2388296]PRTFF. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Sorry, what does that mean in plain English?

[QUOTE=Dolato;2390505]There can be soreness with heavy usage of any parts.

If the bleeding is because the foreskin is "pulling" the skin away during sex, then circumcision can help. Of course see a doctor for that and not us internet doctors.

If the bleeding is more on the shaft due to the constant friction, then use lube. You can even use lube to ease the friction with the condom, but be careful it's not too much or it'll slip off. I always have water based lube with me. I don't need to constantly reapply with some girls, but it comes in handy and I use it generously. Just another expense to the hobby.[/QUOTE]Have lube will travel.

The best way to stay within the law is to pick up girls the old fashion way. At a bar. Notwithstanding that, if one plays the game, the possibility of running into LE or a scammers is always going to exist.

The next best way to avoid LE / blackmail / scammers is to avoid any conversation of allowances while convincing a girl to go to the FC with you and gaining the ability to read people like a professional poker player.

Of course the only way to gain these skills is to play in the bowl, put yourself at risk, and learn from experience. When I first started playing poker, I used to ask a friend how he knew when another player was bluffing or when to bluff a newbie, or how he knew when he should lay down a set of kings against trip aces. His response was that the only way to gain those skills was to lose a whole lot of money and spend lots of time playing the game.

Long story short, if you play in the bowl, you will always run the risk of getting scammed, blackmailed or being on the wrong side of LE. If those possibilities are something you can't handle, then its time to exit. Left stage.

For me personally, if my entire life was completely turned upside down by a bad encounter in the bowl. I would pick up what I had left, move to the left coast, and do what I could to turn into a professional SD.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2390389]All this talk of Uncle LEO and SD / SB has gotten me worried especially after M&G+FC with the most recent SA babe. No I did not really score she happened to be a short, thick babe within my budget of $ to $. 5.

She texted things like "looking to forward to f* you tomorrow" and when I asked her during FC if she liked to talk dirty she looked nonplussed I then reminded her of the text and she mumbled something. While texting directions to her I received "What are you expectations as far as sex. . positions. . And acts?" "Just trying to go Ahead and prepare myself mentally".

So guys a HOW TO post about staying within the law will be very helpful to us newbies to the bowl.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2390580]

Of course the only way to gain these skills is to play in the bowl, put yourself at risk, and learn from experience. [/QUOTE]Reading through the pages and pages filled with others' mistakes and success can definitely speed up the learning curve.

So today was fruitful. I came into the day with the expectation of seeing two sbs today. I had a date set up with a a pot as well and had another pot (wildcard) waiting in the wings.

The SB that had been begging for a date the past month didn't respond this morning when I texted to confirm our date. Luckily the other SB did, and the pot I have been targeting confirmed our lunch date. After getting confirmation from the trusted SB, I booked the hotel and was off to the races.

The lunch date with the pot went better than planned. We ended the date and I felt like a kid in a candy store when this sweet young thing let me kiss and pet her. She is a 9/10 and we click. If the physical chemistry is there, I may drop all the other babies and focus on her.

The fact that I was ignored by one SB gives me an excuse to cut her from my rotation. The date with the SB that confirmed was good, but while I was banging her, I had the pot I went on a date with earlier that day, on my mind the whole time. Crazy because this is the SB that is a 7 face 8 ish body but is completely wild in bed. I thought she would last at least eight dates. I was going to try to maximize my room by inviiting my wildcard pot over but she is unavailable. Which is why I write this report in the hotel room.

Right now my plan is to play it cool. I have had m&gs with pots that generated promises of trips to the FC that never materialized. My latina coed gymnist pot is a prime example (she went dark and no peep from her for a while) .

But seriously gents, if things work out with this pot, I am going to be on cloud nine. She is cute, very young and seems eager to please. Wish me luck fellahs.

Yes. There is much truth to dolatos post. I attribute much of my very early and quick success in the bowl over these past few months to the pages of information that have helped my learning curve.

To all the newbies. PRTFF.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2390600]Reading through the pages and pages filled with others' mistakes and success can definitely speed up the learning curve.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2390604]So today was fruitful. I came into the day with the expectation of seeing two sbs today. I had a date set up with a a pot as well and had another pot (wildcard) waiting in the wings.

The SB that had been begging for a date the past month didn't respond this morning when I texted to confirm our date. Luckily the other SB did, and the pot I have been targeting confirmed our lunch date. After getting confirmation from the trusted SB, I booked the hotel and was off to the races.

The lunch date with the pot went better than planned. We ended the date and I felt like a kid in a candy store when this sweet young thing let me kiss and pet her. She is a 9/10 and we click. If the physical chemistry is there, I may drop all the other babies and focus on her.

The fact that I was ignored by one SB gives me an excuse to cut her from my rotation. The date with the SB that confirmed was good, but while I was banging her, I had the pot I went on a date with earlier that day, on my mind the whole time. Crazy because this is the SB that is a 7 face 8 ish body but is completely wild in bed. I thought she would last at least eight dates. I was going to try to maximize my room by inviiting my wildcard pot over but she is unavailable. Which is why I write this report in the hotel room.

Right now my plan is to play it cool. I have had m&gs with pots that generated promises of trips to the FC that never materialized. My latina coed gymnist pot is a prime example (she went dark and no peep from her for a while) .

But seriously gents, if things work out with this pot, I am going to be on cloud nine. She is cute, very young and seems eager to please. Wish me luck fellahs.[/QUOTE]Good luck, Just don't put all your sugar in one bowl.

1st got into the bowl on my own a couple of years back. While first fishing, no experience and ran into a pro that got me for $$. At least I can look back now and tell she was a pro, I didn't know that at the time. While I don't like throwing money away, that didn't bother me as much as the feeling of getting burnt. I hate that more than anything, so I started researching. Found this thread and started reading. Started at 1st post, got almost 200 pages in before I ran out of time. No time because lessons learned were paying off. While I'm not on the level with hwg (who is? I'm holding my own with 2 beautiful spinners that I see 1 or 2 times a week each along with one or two more to keep things rolling. Oh yeh, the so, can't forget the so. Fascinating reading, great bunch on here. Hell, I'm even studying psychology now to try to understand these little beauties! Always hungry!

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2390606]Yes. There is much truth to dolatos post. I attribute much of my very early and quick success in the bowl over these past few months to the pages of information that have helped my learning curve.

To all the newbies. PRTFF.[/QUOTE]

Wiser words could not have been written. I have found that it works the same in civvy dating as well. In my experience women are competitive by nature. Having options only makes them want you more. Unless they don't, at which point, having a fallback never hurts.

In any case, thanks to all the veteran brothers (hwg, JL, FM, and others) who have posted their experiences and adventures on this part of Jackson's site. The memories I have created as a result of the combined wisdom of this forum have been priceless.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2390637]Good luck, Just don't put all your sugar in one bowl.[/QUOTE]

HWG is probably too nice to respond. Prtff is usually written as Rtff. It means "read the effing forum".

It is an acronym that is not uncommon to many forums. I suspect HWG added the "p" to the rtff in an attempt to be gentlemanly and add a "please. ".

Rtff is often used when a newer member asks a question that has been discussed multiple times. More experienced members who have often alreadly answered a question posted by a newer member will often simply reply by writing "RTFF" since it is a PITA to explain something everytime a new member asks a question.

Long story short, if you read the forum, chances are, your question will have already been answered. There is very little that is new under the sun.

[QUOTE=ThisSoundsFun;2390534]Sorry, what does that mean in plain English?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2390604]So today was fruitful. [/QUOTE]That's some good time management. Like HG said, maybe don't quite drop all the SBs so quick.

Even if the POT comes through, the SBs can be flighty and vanish into the thin air without any notice. That doesn't mean you have to maintain a large stable but it's good to have a few fallbacks just in case. You'll have to throw in the steady SB into the rotation from time to time to keep her around.

Ending up empty handed all of a sudden can lead you to act in desperation and maybe throw out your budget or something else foolish. Having a solid base of SBs to build on can let you be pickier and walk away from less than ideal situations.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2390606]Yes. There is much truth to dolatos post. I attribute much of my very early and quick success in the bowl over these past few months to the pages of information that have helped my learning curve.

To all the newbies. PRTFF.[/QUOTE]Exactly. At 571 pages (and that's just as of this writing), it takes some time to read through this entire thing, but it's well worth it. When I first found this forum and decided I wanted to pursue this SD life, I literally took notes. I would read the forum, come across a nugget of information I liked or felt was valuable, and I would copy and paste that info into a text document. I still have it easily accessible on my PC's desktop. So yes, it is well worth it to do your homework.

" She is a 9/10 and we click. If the physical chemistry is there, I may drop all the other babies and focus on her. " Smellyfish.

I second the brothers' advice to ALWAYS keep a backup rotation in play. Every single time I get complacent with one baby she fades away at some point. It's nice to have that one hot one but keep #s 2 and 3 ready. There is a reason every athletic team has a bench (;.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2390606]Yes. There is much truth to dolatos post. I attribute much of my very early and quick success in the bowl over these past few months to the pages of information that have helped my learning curve.

To all the newbies. PRTFF.[/QUOTE]I just wanted to say thanks. I was a newbie to SA several months back and certainly my success rates have improved and costs have lowered since reading most of this forum.

I probably benefited most from Hollywood's 3 steps. Having worked some in sales it was easy to script 3 or 4 messages to reel them in and weed out those with GPS. Saves a lot of time and improves success rates substantially.

Many thanks to all.

Well today I met a 22 year old mixed girl I have been trying to meet up for weeks. I am really bitter and jaded with SB as I had three flake out on me in the last week. I liked her pictures so I said what the hell. She was very cute and and we talked for well over an hour and a half. I know it's bad to think this way but you would think most 22 year olds are flaky and only want to party and may not be mature. Well I was pleasantly surprised. She is smart, articulate, mature and cute as hell. We talked about everything under the sun. We made plans to meet up again and didn't talk about sugar. I mention this because sometimes in the bowl you have a great time with someone you connect and there is no sex or money exchanged. These are some of the nice surprised in this hobby.