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Hi all. Long time listener, first time caller. LOL. Went to M1 for first time in ages. Only one working was yum yum. She gave good, but rushed shower and then straight to boom boom. I declined boom boom, and just optioned for covered BJ. It was by far the worst one I have ever had. Like her mouth was blown out. Couldn't feel any suction and she acted like it was tourture for her to do. I had to stop. Left unhappy and mamasan was notified. Won't be going back anytime soon.
[QUOTE=LookingForNigh;3285943]I tried this and pretty much got the same experience. Did $60/ hr and no OTC roaming. Any others had any luck?[/QUOTE]Same deal, won't repeat.
[QUOTE=Perusing;3288104]Tiffany [URL]https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/thp/6017740025.html[/URL] Attractive Asian who I'd guess was in her mid thirties. Studio was well kept, clean and comfy. Nice table with attached head rest. Massage was on the softer side with some nice teasing thrown in. On the flip she removed her clothes. Her figure IMHO is almost perfect. Thin but not skinny, lovely breasts, smooth as silk skin. If she had just a bit more round to her bottom it couldn't get any better.
HHr was 40 and HR 60. On the flip HJ or BJ (YMMV on whether BBJ or CBJ) asked 100 tip for the BJ don't recall what tip request was for HJ. Never discussed FS so have no idea if that's another option. Nice body to body teasing for the prelude but the finish left a bit to be desired as it was a little on the rushed side with too much hand thrown in. A bit more sensuality in that department would have made it a 10 experience but would have to drop it to something like an 8 as it turned out. A HHr with BBJ for 140 has to have a superlative finish or I paid too much.[/QUOTE]Nice description, spot on! I find her to be very sensual. No FS as I did inquire.
Repeated with Ebony at Saigon the other week. She has a new room where the waiting area used to be, very small but it works. There is a speaker in the room and the music is moderately loud so it drowns out any noise in or out. The usual good massage, good pressure and lighter towards the flip. I'm pretty comfortable with her now, some chit chat and I asked if she would like a reverse massage, seems like I caught her off guard but she agreed. Roaming all over, digital stimulation a few groans and seemed to enjoy it. At one point she started to get up as if I were done and I kept going so she got comfortable again. I knew we were running short on time so I asked if she thought I could bring her to climax and here is a new one. She says she just masturbated this morning so it might take a minute. I told her next time when I call to make an appointment I'll make sure she is ready LOL. She asked if I came prepared this time. Shit, not this time but next for sure. She quoted 1. 5 + house fee for FS, still debating if that is too much. This time was 1. 6 for house fee and BBBJ was as usual very good.
Happy mongering.
[QUOTE=FlipFan;3292466]What was the total damage, you didn't mention the house amount?[/QUOTE]House fee was. 7.
[QUOTE=Hotcarl76;3293077]House fee was. 7.[/QUOTE]$170 total! Aye Carumba! If everyone keeps paying these high prices, I'm going to get priced right out of the market! Please stop paying more than $140 for EVERYTHING. I'm begging you guys!
Went to brownstone the other day, paid. 8 the house fee, waited in the room for couple minutes, met jay an avg looking korean lady in her mid 40, started with a sauna and TS after that went to the room for the massage, the massage was deeptissue without any teasing, on the flip asked. 6 for HJ and 1 for CBJ agree on CBJ, the CBJ was ok but included some teeth. Total damage 1. 8, I am not sure if I ll repeat. Stay safe.
Saw angel for a 1/2 hour massage! She is amazing! I will repeat. She is a little shy at first but has fantastic stills with her hands and mouth!
[QUOTE=Marvel1;3292902]Repeated with Ebony at Saigon the other week. She has a new room where the waiting area used to be, very small but it works. There is a speaker in the room and the music is moderately loud so it drowns out any noise in or out. The usual good massage, good pressure and lighter towards the flip. I'm pretty comfortable with her now, some chit chat and I asked if she would like a reverse massage, seems like I caught her off guard but she agreed. Roaming all over, digital stimulation a few groans and seemed to enjoy it. At one point she started to get up as if I were done and I kept going so she got comfortable again. I knew we were running short on time so I asked if she thought I could bring her to climax and here is a new one. She says she just masturbated this morning so it might take a minute. I told her next time when I call to make an appointment I'll make sure she is ready LOL. She asked if I came prepared this time. Shit, not this time but next for sure. She quoted 1. 5 + house fee for FS, still debating if that is too much. This time was 1. 6 for house fee and BBBJ was as usual very good.
Happy mongering.[/QUOTE]Does she use the same phone number as tiffany or a different one?
Recommendations for best place to go to. M1, sun spa in Waterford or silver in Dearborn?
[QUOTE=Drews4;3293357]Saw angel for a 1/2 hour massage! She is amazing! I will repeat. She is a little shy at first but has fantastic stills with her hands and mouth![/QUOTE]Could you give more details. ?? I've recently moved from Jackson and have been trying to find a new place to let it hang.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=Tiger0033;3294324]Recommendations for best place to go to. M1, sun spa in Waterford or silver in Dearborn?[/QUOTE]Sun is in Pontiac and I would not recommend. Older woman (like most spa's) but grumpy and wants too much for tips. M! you won't get a good massage but what ever else you want is available. I know nothing about silver.
[QUOTE=Guyneedsfun;3294422]Sun is in Pontiac and I would not recommend. Older woman (like most spa's) but grumpy and wants too much for tips. M! you won't get a good massage but what ever else you want is available. I know nothing about silver.[/QUOTE]Silver Spa is your best bet. Haven't been there in over a month but they are typically consistently better out of all of them. The chicks dress the part too, they know what their role is.
[QUOTE=InThePlums;3294393]Could you give more details. ?? I've recently moved from Jackson and have been trying to find a new place to let it hang.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]She is a beautiful black young lady who has great curves but is very reserved, quiet. She is very respectful and will not rush you or treat you like a piece of meat.
[QUOTE=SpeakerBoner;3293112]$170 total! Aye Carumba! If everyone keeps paying these high prices, I'm going to get priced right out of the market! Please stop paying more than $140 for EVERYTHING. I'm begging you guys![/QUOTE]Hey newbie- yeah M1 is $140 all inclusive, but the parking lot is a cop haven let alone you walk that 45 foot walk of shame from your car to the AMP. If anyone sees you, they your not getting an African hair weave or buying Cheetos at family dollar. In the past, I have watched a state police just sit there and watch me for a couple minutes. No joke. I don't like m1.
Getting priced out of the market is the guy who is considering giving ebony at Saigon spa $150 on top of the house fee = $230 who's smoking crack here? If you want FS at Silver Spa, Brownstone, its $180. I drove by the shack known as Sunrise Spa- anyone who has a car from century has a 50/50 chance of getting it stolen if you go there and drop $180 total.
I'm no newbie but been at it for 6 yrs. I'm no subject matter EXPERT, but I know the market here.
[URL]http://detroit.backpage.com/TherapeuticMassage/the-best-kind-of-pampering-sensuous-message-cute-curvy-blonde/23146923[/URL]
I went last month because the reviews of her seemed pretty good. First mistake I made was getting an hour. The massage is just light caressing and that's about it. I really want a real massage from these girls and most of the time it isn't even close. Her tits are pretty nice but along with them is a full size mess of a body! BBBJ is an option but I never like them because I'm kinda wide. This is when I envy skinny dick guys. Too much roof of the mouth! I may go back for a half hour; hopefully I won't find myself desperate enough. Really nice, comfortable, and private room though at 12 and stephenson in the same building as the skate park- which you can fully hear through the wall with no problem if that is a deal breaker for you. Reviews said that she would take care of you but I thought that meant a good massage too! No sir.
[QUOTE=BuckleMyShoe;3294743][URL]http://detroit.backpage.com/TherapeuticMassage/the-best-kind-of-pampering-sensuous-message-cute-curvy-blonde/23146923[/URL]
I went last month because the reviews of her seemed pretty good. First mistake I made was getting an hour. The massage is just light caressing and that's about it. I really want a real massage from these girls and most of the time it isn't even close. Her tits are pretty nice but along with them is a full size mess of a body! BBBJ is an option but I never like them because I'm kinda wide. This is when I envy skinny dick guys. Too much roof of the mouth! I may go back for a half hour; hopefully I won't find myself desperate enough. Really nice, comfortable, and private room though at 12 and stephenson in the same building as the skate park- which you can fully hear through the wall with no problem if that is a deal breaker for you. Reviews said that she would take care of you but I thought that meant a good massage too! No sir.[/QUOTE]That lady is gross looking cheese have to pay me to massage her.
[QUOTE=Hotcarl76;3294581]Hey newbie- yeah M1 is $140 all inclusive, but the parking lot is a cop haven let alone you walk that 45 foot walk of shame from your car to the AMP. If anyone sees you, they your not getting an African hair weave or buying Cheetos at family dollar. In the past, I have watched a state police just sit there and watch me for a couple minutes. No joke. I don't like m1.
Getting priced out of the market is the guy who is considering giving ebony at Saigon spa $150 on top of the house fee = $230 who's smoking crack here? If you want FS at Silver Spa, Brownstone, its $180. I drove by the shack known as Sunrise Spa- anyone who has a car from century has a 50/50 chance of getting it stolen if you go there and drop $180 total.
I'm no newbie but been at it for 6 yrs. I'm no subject matter EXPERT, but I know the market here.[/QUOTE]I wish there was a like button on these posts.
Hotcarl, you the man!
Never pay more than $. Just give mamasan that up front and say that's what you always pay. Works everytime. She trys to give you shit, but just stick to your guns. There used to be a mamasan a long while back that wouldn't put up with that shit, but this one is much easier to work with.
I agree, Hot Carls for all!
[QUOTE=JietMan;3295262]I wish there was a like button on these posts.
Hotcarl, you the man![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MusicBoss10;3291293]Girl in photo does not work there and this place is DYI only, just like the place in Waterford. Same owner I believe.[/QUOTE]So I called this place and at first they told me 100 for an hour, but they also had a full menu when you arrived. So curiosity got to me and today I stopped in and asked to see the menu. 70 for an hour for a male. There were two very attractive women one in her mid 30's and one probably in her mid 20's behind the counter. But they did have waxing and some other things on the menu. I will to back for a toftt but it is the same owner as the one in Waterford Reiki. Any info on that place in Waterford?
[QUOTE=WalterW;3295422]Never pay more than $. Just give mamasan that up front and say that's what you always pay. Works everytime. She trys to give you shit, but just stick to your guns. There used to be a mamasan a long while back that wouldn't put up with that shit, but this one is much easier to work with.[/QUOTE]I only pay $ as well and get pretty much whatever I want. Don't pay more than that.
Stopped here for the first time in 8 or 9 months. Had to sign a sheet near the door that basically said "nothing illegal will take place while here. " Weird. Other than that, the same as ever, saggy old lady offering unethusiastic FS for $1. 2. Not worth it to me. Other locations offer better service for the same amount. Huge Bush and horrible perm if you're into that.
[QUOTE=BuckleMyShoe;3294743][URL]http://detroit.backpage.com/TherapeuticMassage/the-best-kind-of-pampering-sensuous-message-cute-curvy-blonde/23146923[/URL]
I went last month because the reviews of her seemed pretty good. First mistake I made was getting an hour. The massage is just light caressing and that's about it. I really want a real massage from these girls and most of the time it isn't even close. Her tits are pretty nice but along with them is a full size mess of a body! BBBJ is an option but I never like them because I'm kinda wide. This is when I envy skinny dick guys. Too much roof of the mouth! I may go back for a half hour; hopefully I won't find myself desperate enough. Really nice, comfortable, and private room though at 12 and stephenson in the same building as the skate park- which you can fully hear through the wall with no problem if that is a deal breaker for you. Reviews said that she would take care of you but I thought that meant a good massage too! No sir.[/QUOTE]I saw her back when she worked in her condo. She must have had neighbor problems because she asked me to whisper and tip toe in the hallway.
I wasn't attracted to her and found her oral skill lacking. She did look like her current pictures but this goes back well over a year. YMMV.
Yes any kind of massagie can be had for that. No clue why people pay more. Just drives the price up. If they ask to much money and don't get it, the price will start coming down. Or just pay $ and not worry about all that. As I mentioned before, yum yum gives a lackluster performence.
[QUOTE=ContinentalMan;3295855]I only pay $ as well and get pretty much whatever I want. Don't pay more than that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ContinentalMan;3295855]I only pay $ as well and get pretty much whatever I want. Don't pay more than that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=WalterW;3295422]Never pay more than $. Just give mamasan that up front and say that's what you always pay. Works everytime. She trys to give you shit, but just stick to your guns. There used to be a mamasan a long while back that wouldn't put up with that shit, but this one is much easier to work with.[/QUOTE]Does 100 get you FS, BBBJ, MSOG? Hour or half?
I've been there but it's been at least 5-6 years ago. I can't remember much from the visit.
[QUOTE=Hotcarl76;3294581]Hey newbie- yeah M1 is $140 all inclusive, but the parking lot is a cop haven let alone you walk that 45 foot walk of shame from your car to the AMP. If anyone sees you, they your not getting an African hair weave or buying Cheetos at family dollar. In the past, I have watched a state police just sit there and watch me for a couple minutes. No joke. I don't like m1.
Getting priced out of the market is the guy who is considering giving ebony at Saigon spa $150 on top of the house fee = $230 who's smoking crack here? If you want FS at Silver Spa, Brownstone, its $180. I drove by the shack known as Sunrise Spa- anyone who has a car from century has a 50/50 chance of getting it stolen if you go there and drop $180 total.
I'm no newbie but been at it for 6 yrs. I'm no subject matter EXPERT, but I know the market here.[/QUOTE]I don't understand what a lot of this means, but OK. I chuckled.
I'm not sure if "newbie" is supposed to be some kind of jab (I've been frequenting massage parlors for the better part of 20 years. But who's counting). I'll repeat what I originally posted. STOP PAYING MORE THAN $140 ANYWHERE! I see a few recent posts about only paying $100 at M1. I'm taking that advice when I go in there this week. We have to start getting these prices down to a more "reasonable" rate.
If you're paying $180 at Silver and / or Brownstone, you're paying WAY too much. According to your post (#8047. From last month) you wrote:
She is new and is trained to get as much $$ as possible but for you ass-clowns that are giving Asian housewives $1. 2 to 1. 4 for FS, STOP, go home and jerk off in the mirror. You are fucking things up for us. So, I get treated like a total cheap ass for giving her $ for FS and she refuses.
So, since you posted that last month, why would you bother to take the time to bust my balls about posting (pretty much) the same thing.
I'm not trying to start any shit with you (or anyone else), it's just that when people post that they're paying all these different prices, now I have to negotiate, thus wasting my time. I understand that you're trying to be funny with what you post (and that's fine), but why contradict the prices you pay from post to post. We're all in this together to not get ripped off.
Also. I never understand why guys are so worried about walking through a parking lot to go into a massage establishment. If it's that embarassing for you, you might want to get a new hobby. I promise you that the zombies wandering around the streets and / or strip-malls aren't paying attention and don't give a shit about you or where you're going.
[QUOTE=SpeakerBoner;3296086]I don't understand what a lot of this means, but OK. I chuckled.
I'm not sure if "newbie" is supposed to be some kind of jab (I've been frequenting massage parlors for the better part of 20 years. But who's counting). I'll repeat what I originally posted. STOP PAYING MORE THAN $140 ANYWHERE! I see a few recent posts about only paying $100 at M1. I'm taking that advice when I go in there this week. We have to start getting these prices down to a more "reasonable" rate.
If you're paying $180 at Silver and / or Brownstone, you're paying WAY too much. According to your post (#8047. From last month) you wrote:
She is new and is trained to get as much $$ as possible but for you ass-clowns that are giving Asian housewives $1. 2 to 1. 4 for FS, STOP, go home and jerk off in the mirror. You are fucking things up for us. So, I get treated like a total cheap ass for giving her $ for FS and she refuses.
So, since you posted that last month, why would you bother to take the time to bust my balls about posting (pretty much) the same thing.
I'm not trying to start any shit with you (or anyone else), it's just that when people post that they're paying all these different prices, now I have to negotiate, thus wasting my time. I understand that you're trying to be funny with what you post (and that's fine), but why contradict the prices you pay from post to post. We're all in this together to not get ripped off.
Also. I never understand why guys are so worried about walking through a parking lot to go into a massage establishment. If it's that embarassing for you, you might want to get a new hobby. I promise you that the zombies wandering around the streets and / or strip-malls aren't paying attention and don't give a shit about you or where you're going.[/QUOTE]I have to laugh at this, because its something that I have been bringing up on these boards, Whats the biggest complaint that you see on these local review boards?. Its that the spas are filled with ugly 55 and older women. If you want something cheap, go to Walmarts. If you want something really good, go to Nordstroms. It works the same way when dealing with massage parlors. You are telling this guy not to pay more than 140 because hes ruining it for the rest of us. But, in my opinion (since I like really good things), you are ruining it for me by being a cheap-ass. I have said on here before that 98% of the women working at spas around america are from Flushing, NY and L. A. and the word around there is not to come work in Michigan because the customers are cheap tippers (you). Therefore, the hot young girls will not come to Michigan and if you are into banging 58 year old grandmothers, then keep paying 140 dollars. But, some of us would rather pay 30 to 40 dollars more and get a hot 35 year old asian girl.
[QUOTE=SpeakerBoner;3296086]I don't understand what a lot of this means, but OK. I chuckled.
I'm not sure if "newbie" is supposed to be some kind of jab (I've been frequenting massage parlors for the better part of 20 years. But who's counting). I'll repeat what I originally posted. STOP PAYING MORE THAN $140 ANYWHERE! I see a few recent posts about only paying $100 at M1. I'm taking that advice when I go in there this week. We have to start getting these prices down to a more "reasonable" rate.
If you're paying $180 at Silver and / or Brownstone, you're paying WAY too much. According to your post (#8047. From last month) you wrote:
She is new and is trained to get as much $$ as possible but for you ass-clowns that are giving Asian housewives $1. 2 to 1. 4 for FS, STOP, go home and jerk off in the mirror. You are fucking things up for us. So, I get treated like a total cheap ass for giving her $ for FS and she refuses.
So, since you posted that last month, why would you bother to take the time to bust my balls about posting (pretty much) the same thing.
I'm not trying to start any shit with you (or anyone else), it's just that when people post that they're paying all these different prices, now I have to negotiate, thus wasting my time. I understand that you're trying to be funny with what you post (and that's fine), but why contradict the prices you pay from post to post. We're all in this together to not get ripped off.
Also. I never understand why guys are so worried about walking through a parking lot to go into a massage establishment. If it's that embarassing for you, you might want to get a new hobby. I promise you that the zombies wandering around the streets and / or strip-malls aren't paying attention and don't give a shit about you or where you're going.[/QUOTE]So anything over $140 is too much. So tell us all the places where $140 or less gets you BBBJ, BBFS and the whole hour. Remember the term YDMV (your dollar may vary). Also remember this, even if every monger on here was actually able to get BBBJ, BBFS and the full hour hour for $140 or less what about the Monger who does not read the forum? And I suspect the numbers of Mongers that are not aware of the forum outnumber us many times over, how are you going to convince them to pay $140 or less.
Every one of is is an individual and negotiating skills only apply to oneself. Once you walk out the door the provider restarts the negotiating with the next monger and he will pay more or less than the last one. If he is good he may get it down to $100, if not able to negotiate he may go over $200.
Here's a scenario. You go to a Spa. You pay the house fee of $70 or more, you start to negotiate, she won't do the deed for less than a $100. Do you walk? You're already in for $70. If you walk than you're already in the hole for your next session by $70 because you're still looking for services. If you walk she still gets her cut of the house fee, easiest money she makes.
Also for $140 are you getting fresh off the boat or the older gals. Many factors go into the negotiating phase, age, skill, services, time etc.
Look at it this way. Gas prices are $2. 55 a gallon. You think it is too much. How much gas do you burn up driving around trying to save a few cents a gallon before you decide you're on empty and must fill up, and by then prices may have actually gone up.
Good Luck on locking in a $140 limit, it's been tried several times before and hasn't worked yet.
I'm not trying to start any shit with you (or anyone else), just giving my opinion.
Thanks for the very valid point MidMichGeezer. I wish we could set the market on FS. That's what the culture was like on NR years ago. SpeakerBoner your comments made me assume you are new this but REGARDLESS. You are only referencing (1) fricken MP. M1. M1 is the ONLY AMP where you can get this service at the $140 price. Have you successfully gotten BBBJ, FS, from the other AMPs in the area for your $$$ threshold? We have all gotten lucky from time to time (got BBFS at Accu 7/ Tele 2 x) but we all know it won't consistently happen.
Please give me a list of 2-3 AMPs that I can consistently get FS + BBBJ for $140 out the door:
1) _.
2) _.
3) _.
[QUOTE=InThePlums;3294393]Could you give more details. ?? I've recently moved from Jackson and have been trying to find a new place to let it hang.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]She is in a safe area and has a great atmosphere in her room. Candles and soft music. This was my first ebony experience. And don't think it will be my last. Only does 1/2 hour for your first time. Message is so so but she makes you feel like you are very special.
[URL]http://detroit.backpage.com/Therapeu...angel/28189151[/URL]
[QUOTE=Hotcarl76;3296386]Thanks for the very valid point MidMichGeezer. I wish we could set the market on FS. That's what the culture was like on NR years ago. SpeakerBoner your comments made me assume you are new this but REGARDLESS. You are only referencing (1) fricken MP. M1. M1 is the ONLY AMP where you can get this service at the $140 price. Have you successfully gotten BBBJ, FS, from the other AMPs in the area for your $$$ threshold? We have all gotten lucky from time to time (got BBFS at Accu 7/ Tele 2 x) but we all know it won't consistently happen.
Please give me a list of 2-3 AMPs that I can consistently get FS + BBBJ for $140 out the door:
1) _.
2) _.
3) _.[/QUOTE]I can agree with almost everything you have said. Can't name 3 places in this area where you can get full service for 140 out the door. But I will say this. There is no way that anybody is getting BBFS at Acu at 7 at Telegraph. . end of story.
[QUOTE=Tigers1987;3293427]Does she use the same phone number as tiffany or a different one?[/QUOTE]She has her own number, but first contact is through Tiffany. She does have great head game!
[QUOTE=SkinDogToo;3296915]She has her own number, but first contact is through Tiffany. She does have great head game![/QUOTE]If you have the number, please pm.
[QUOTE=SkinDogToo;3296915]She has her own number, but first contact is through Tiffany. She does have great head game![/QUOTE]Can I have the number as well? Please send me a pm if you still have it, thanks.
M1 has always been my spot. Get a TS, massage and two rounds of "fun" for 140. I've never been to silver, so I'm curious of how you would compare Silver to M1 based on services and price?
[QUOTE=Hotcarl76;3294562]Silver Spa is your best bet. Haven't been there in over a month but they are typically consistently better out of all of them. The chicks dress the part too, they know what their role is.[/QUOTE]
Just wondering if after doing BBFS with a worker do you shit your pants wondering what you caught or do you not care. I just don't understand how people do this. I would be a wreck until I got tested.
[QUOTE=Hotcarl76;3296386]Thanks for the very valid point MidMichGeezer. I wish we could set the market on FS. That's what the culture was like on NR years ago. SpeakerBoner your comments made me assume you are new this but REGARDLESS. You are only referencing (1) fricken MP. M1. M1 is the ONLY AMP where you can get this service at the $140 price. Have you successfully gotten BBBJ, FS, from the other AMPs in the area for your $$$ threshold? We have all gotten lucky from time to time (got BBFS at Accu 7/ Tele 2 x) but we all know it won't consistently happen.
Please give me a list of 2-3 AMPs that I can consistently get FS + BBBJ for $140 out the door:
1) _.
2) _.
3) _.[/QUOTE]
Her BBBJ is phenomenal you won't last long LOL.
[QUOTE=Drews4;3296634]She is in a safe area and has a great atmosphere in her room. Candles and soft music. This was my first ebony experience. And don't think it will be my last. Only does 1/2 hour for your first time. Message is so so but she makes you feel like you are very special.
[URL]http://detroit.backpage.com/Therapeu...angel/28189151[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Streethunter;3297776]Just wondering if after doing BBFS with a worker do you shit your pants wondering what you caught or do you not care. I just don't understand how people do this. I would be a wreck until I got tested.[/QUOTE]Never have encountered one. I have to believe there is somewhere that would support one but I don't think this is the place.
[QUOTE=Streethunter;3297776]Just wondering if after doing BBFS with a worker do you shit your pants wondering what you caught or do you not care. I just don't understand how people do this. I would be a wreck until I got tested.[/QUOTE]You guys got to be safe about things. Not worth playing Russian roulette, I like the hobby as much as everyone but safety is key.