"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=BigTigger; 1727823]We have a number of categories for the women we tend to focus on (I apologize if I mess up the categories) What is your target group and order of precedence?

Nando 1s- (Desperate need your money for food, rent, etc. Age is irrelevant) [$] Low cash expenditure. Cash and FC are tied together. No Emotional Involvement.

Hot Young Babies. (Under the age of 25, possibly in College or working Part Time jobs, etc) [$$] Cash is mid-high, gifts are a big hit. Dating is optional, but has greater impact.

Middle Grounders. (Over 25, small imperfections, may need some bills covered, not desperate. But not really comfortable either) [$$-$$$] Cash is mid-high, Dating is preferred, potential high Emotional Involvement. Gifts and Dating have high impact.

Non Pros / UTRs. (Under the Radar, Met at their Part time workplace, CL, Don't know they are SBs, Possible 1 advertisement away from being pros) [$$-$$$] Dating optional, Cash outlay is moderate.

The Needy. (Needing Little to no money, but attention and a good screwing) [$$] [Low cash requirement, Dating is mandatory, potential high Emotional Involvement.

Converts. (Strippers and Escorts you are trying to turn into SBs) [$$$$] Cash is high. Lots of upfront work. Dating only at beginning.

SB Professional. (Allowance Types, Higher Costs, Had SDs before, Potentially GPS) [$$$$] High Cash component, Dating and Gifts Mandatory.[/QUOTE]I am new to sugar world. Not the game, I tend to go for less attractive, less $, they seem to be more friendly, have had one high end sb, didn't like her $ need, felt like I owed her, I'm hoping to find that happy medium. Mid looks-body, yet still friendly, and don't mind hanging out for awhile. Got 1, 27yro little chubby, very reasonable. Very. Very freaky, will hang out for hrs, for little or nothing.

What I have done is say. :hey. You up for a trade. I would love to give you a massage and maybe you can help me relax?". Giving my SB a massage always warms me up and she is always accommodating. I am fortunate in that she likes to give oral. So its usually after the massage and she just says."how do you want me?". Mmmm. I have an ottoman at the end of my bed so I usually just toss a pillow on the floor for her knees (I'm such a nice SD. Don't want her to have too much discomfort on her knees. LOL). I sit on the ottoman. Lean back against the bed. She proceeds. And she finishes me as I please.

[QUOTE=FredMoore; 1726960]Thanks for all your input guys. Follow up from several kind but strongly referenced emails exhibit a fair amount of regret at her failure to satisfy my needs and a hope to never send me away with a full load. So I know she got the message. I do want to preserve the arrangement so I remained kind and loving.

I am going to school thanks to one of our own in the art of playing a Dom role, so I hopefully will learn how to be more assertive without having to pull out the whip. Or maybe I will.

And I will track her cycle and avoid her period. I will try PMS Tracker She might change her tune when she sees that I am serious about getting my nut and she will not see me during that time.[/QUOTE]

Gentleman,

Due to the integrated nature of spanking and bondage in sugar life I have put together a brief "quick start" guide to these activities. Although I will be the first to admit that I am no expert. I have received several inquires about it via PM. I have been spanking and tying women up long before I realized what a gift women are to the pursuit of my personal happiness.

To avoid any additional potential nastiness about my attitudes and methods I will not post it here. Just PM me for it and I will send it to you. And unless I'm filling a nasty girl with my splooge here on the east coast you will find my harsh, irreverent and disrespectful commentary in the LA or Las Vegas forums. The girl philosophy towards all women in my life has changed it for the better. It works for me. YMMV!

Lie to your wife's, SO's and girl's! Keep with real with yourselves you women loving mother fuckers (LOL)! And stop eating that her pussy. Let the panty boi's in their lives eat pussy. Give them the dick!

SubCmdr out!

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;1728080]What I have done is say. :hey. You up for a trade. I would love to give you a massage and maybe you can help me relax?". Giving my SB a massage always warms me up and she is always accommodating. I am fortunate in that she likes to give oral. So its usually after the massage and she just says."how do you want me?". Mmmm. I have an ottoman at the end of my bed so I usually just toss a pillow on the floor for her knees (I'm such a nice SD. Don't want her to have too much discomfort on her knees. LOL). I sit on the ottoman. Lean back against the bed. She proceeds. And she finishes me as I please.[/QUOTE]This sounds like a good approach to the problem. Thanks.

[QUOTE=BigTigger;1727823]We have a number of categories for the women we tend to focus on (I apologize if I mess up the categories) What is your target group and order of precedence?[/QUOTE]Categories can change and targets of opportunity often supersede preconceptions (aka Mr Johnson has a mind of his own) but here's my priority list of targets based on BT's categories:

1. Hot Young Babies. (Under the age of 25, possibly in College or working Part Time jobs, etc) [$$] Cash is mid-high, gifts are a big hit. Dating is optional, but has greater impact. LIT2 COMMENT: I think a lot of SDs share this no. 1 priority. Easier said than done, however.

2. Non Pros / UTRs. (Under the Radar, Met at their Part time workplace, CL, Don't know they are SBs, Possible 1 advertisement away from being pros) [$$-$$$] Dating optional, Cash outlay is moderate. Lit2 COMMENT: I include in this category no-nonsense babes who know what they want and sign up for the SB sites but don't accept they are UTRs. I like the lack of entanglements plus the amateur enthusiasm in this group.

3, The Needy. (Needing Little to no money, but attention and a good screwing) [$$] [Low cash requirement, Dating is mandatory, potential high Emotional Involvement. Lit2 COMMENT: This is a preferred category for me because the neediness / emotion ramps up the passion but these babies scare the piss out of me when they start attempts to get involved in your life. High security risk.

4. Converts. (Strippers and Escorts you are trying to turn into SBs) [$$$$] Cash is high. Lots of upfront work. Dating only at beginning. Lit2 COMMENT: I like strippers because you can inspect the merchandise and it is often a challenge to fuck them because they have seen it all before. Dating may be necessary to get her across the line. Yes they can be expensive. Escorts are too crazy to date when I've tried so I don't do it any more.

5. Nando 1s- (Desperate need your money for food, rent, etc. Age is irrelevant) [$] Low cash expenditure. Cash and FC are tied together. No Emotional Involvement. Lit2 COMMENT: these always make me feel guilty which is not what I am looking for.

6. Middle Grounders. (Over 25, small imperfections, may need some bills covered, not desperate. But not really comfortable either) [$$-$$$] Cash is mid-high, Dating is preferred, potential high Emotional Involvement. Gifts and Dating have high impact. Lit2 COMMENT: For me, these are among the worst. Often afflicted with GPS, often looking for a husband.

7. SB Professional. (Allowance Types, Higher Costs, Had SDs before, Potentially GPS) [$$$$] High Cash component, Dating and Gifts Mandatory. Lit2 COMMENT: These babies want to control you. Some will be gorgeous, but too cold blooded for me. Plus I don't like dating any sb.

These are my subjective responses. I'm sure there are different priorities of targets.

Interesting exercise.

Just for fun I reread a portion of the thread from it's inception. WOW!

I want to thank Lit for the ground work that he did pretty much singlehandedly. It was a groundbreaking effort and it was fun to see all the characters come and go as the narrative moved on. I highly recommend that we all occasionally review how this thing has evolved into one of the most effective pussy hunting "How To " books ever. I think Lit should produce " Pussy hunting for Dummies "

Thanks Lit

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1730159]Categories can change and targets of opportunity often supersede preconceptions (aka Mr Johnson has a mind of his own) but here's my priority list of targets based on BT's categories:

1. Hot Young Babies. (Under the age of 25, possibly in College or working Part Time jobs, etc) [$$] Cash is mid-high, gifts are a big hit. Dating is optional, but has greater impact. LIT2 COMMENT: I think a lot of SDs share this no. 1 priority. Easier said than done, however.

2. Non Pros / UTRs. (Under the Radar, Met at their Part time workplace, CL, Don't know they are SBs, Possible 1 advertisement away from being pros) [$$-$$$] Dating optional, Cash outlay is moderate. Lit2 COMMENT: I include in this category no-nonsense babes who know what they want and sign up for the SB sites but don't accept they are UTRs. I like the lack of entanglements plus the amateur enthusiasm in this group.

3, The Needy. (Needing Little to no money, but attention and a good screwing) [$$] [Low cash requirement, Dating is mandatory, potential high Emotional Involvement. Lit2 COMMENT: This is a preferred category for me because the neediness / emotion ramps up the passion but these babies scare the piss out of me when they start attempts to get involved in your life. High security risk.

4. Converts. (Strippers and Escorts you are trying to turn into SBs) [$$$$] Cash is high. Lots of upfront work. Dating only at beginning. Lit2 COMMENT: I like strippers because you can inspect the merchandise and it is often a challenge to fuck them because they have seen it all before. Dating may be necessary to get her across the line. Yes they can be expensive. Escorts are too crazy to date when I've tried so I don't do it any more.

5. Nando 1s- (Desperate need your money for food, rent, etc. Age is irrelevant) [$] Low cash expenditure. Cash and FC are tied together. No Emotional Involvement. Lit2 COMMENT: these always make me feel guilty which is not what I am looking for.

6. Middle Grounders. (Over 25, small imperfections, may need some bills covered, not desperate. But not really comfortable either) [$$-$$$] Cash is mid-high, Dating is preferred, potential high Emotional Involvement. Gifts and Dating have high impact. Lit2 COMMENT: For me, these are among the worst. Often afflicted with GPS, often looking for a husband.

7. SB Professional. (Allowance Types, Higher Costs, Had SDs before, Potentially GPS) [$$$$] High Cash component, Dating and Gifts Mandatory. Lit2 COMMENT: These babies want to control you. Some will be gorgeous, but too cold blooded for me. Plus I don't like dating any sb.

These are my subjective responses. I'm sure there are different priorities of targets.

Interesting exercise.[/QUOTE]My first real SB was a #7 (hate to admit that). Then I eventually made it through the #2's down to the #5's to save money and time and like you said no emotion, just fucking. Now I am only doing the #1/3 combo girls for $ or less. Very high emotional involvement which cuts way back on the dollars as they do not want one without the other, working or student or both. Basically part time girlfriends. Long term strategy required, but well worth it as they are exclusive to me.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1730214]Just for fun I reread a portion of the thread from it's inception. WOW!

I want to thank Lit for the ground work that he did pretty much singlehandedly. It was a groundbreaking effort and it was fun to see all the characters come and go as the narrative moved on. I highly recommend that we all occasionally review how this thing has evolved into one of the most effective pussy hunting "How To " books ever. I think Lit should produce " Pussy hunting for Dummies "

Thanks Lit[/QUOTE]I second that. Lit founded this thread when much was assumed and little was known about the topic. It has become a resource everyone regardless of experience can read and learn. I think this thread is unique and thanks to Lit and the rest of us for becoming object lessons.

Drunker Irish posted this warning on the DC board, and I think it's worth reposting here.

[url]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/sugar-daddy-extortion-578452[/url]

[QUOTE=Bunker Buster; 1730903]Drunker Irish posted this warning on the DC board, and I think it's worth reposting here.

[url]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/sugar-daddy-extortion-578452[/url][/QUOTE]Every SB I now enter negotiations with will be receiving this link. This way they know any blackmail or extortion attempts against me, could find themselves with the FBI at their door and possibly facing 20 years in prison. Too many of these girls think they can make serious threats without any risk or repercussions.

I feel bad for that guy, but the story is a blessing to SDs everywhere. Use it to scare off psychos and to keep the normal girls in line.

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1730913]Every SB I now enter negotiations with will be receiving this link. This way they know any blackmail or extortion attempts against me, could find themselves with the FBI at their door and possibly facing 20 years in prison. Too many of these girls think they can make serious threats without any risk or repercussions.

I feel bad for that guy, but the story is a blessing to SDs everywhere. Use it to scare off psychos and to keep the normal girls in line.[/QUOTE]A similar thing happened to me at the very start of my career in the Bowl. Luckily, I was under deep cover, and there was no way the baby could find my real identity, but I did have a few days of doubts and fear. It ended when I told her she should do what she wanted, but so would I. What I was doing, seeking babies while married might be frowned upon by polite society, but what she was threatening was a felony, and I would be contacting the police. Fortunately, I had not sent her any compromising pics beyond a selfie head shot, and maintained my secret identity, but still, it was a frightening episode.

Happily it did not deter me from future exploits! Imo, this guy appears to have done two things wrong - exposed his true identity, and sent her money without ever getting her in the FC. This no doubt gave her the idea that she could get the cash without any effort in other ways.

Maybe we could draft a "Ten Commandments for SDs" list of things that should never be done, i.e. Thou shalt not reveal thy true identity, Thou shalt not use personal or corporate credit cards. Any more?

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1730998]A similar thing happened to me at the very start of my career in the Bowl. Luckily, I was under deep cover, and there was no way the baby could find my real identity, but I did have a few days of doubts and fear. It ended when I told her she should do what she wanted, but so would I. What I was doing, seeking babies while married might be frowned upon by polite society, but what she was threatening was a felony, and I would be contacting the police. Fortunately, I had not sent her any compromising pics beyond a selfie head shot, and maintained my secret identity, but still, it was a frightening episode.

Happily it did not deter me from future exploits! Imo, this guy appears to have done two things wrong. Exposed his true identity, and sent her money without ever getting her in the FC. This no doubt gave her the idea that she could get the cash without any effort in other ways.

Maybe we could draft a "Ten Commandments for SDs" list of things that should never be done, I. E. Thou shalt not reveal thy true identity, Thou shalt not use personal or corporate credit cards. Any more?[/QUOTE]Thou shalt not pursue those desperate enough to threaten you.

Thou shalt not meet a potential SB without doing your upfront research on her. Facebook, twitter, email, tin eye, google image search. Anything you can use to confirm she is who she says.

Thou shalt not use a personal or corporate cell phone. Get a throwaway phone or Google Voice.

Thou shalt not use your personal email address. Create an email address used strictly for SB's. I recommend Gmail or Hushmail as they make it harder to trace your IP address. Not foolproof at all, but beyond the capability of most SB's.

Thou shalt not use your home or business for meetings.

Thou shalt not provide sugar before meeting.

Thou shalt not leave your wallet unattended with a SB.

Thou shalt not continue a relationship with a SB who does not live up to her end of the arrangement.

Thou shalt not go raw.

Thou shalt not fall in love.

[QUOTE=Bunker Buster; 1730903]Drunker Irish posted this warning on the DC board, and I think it's worth reposting here.

[url]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/sugar-daddy-extortion-578452[/url][/QUOTE]I have undergone 3 extortion experiences. Unfortunately, a long term SB will determine your I'd if she is motivated to do so. Fortunately I was able to resolve them with minimal financial exposure.

This guy must have taken a stupid pill for 1) sending naked pics and 2) giving money, $7000 no less, to a stranger

There were some commentary and appreciated. I figure I should share my thoughts to the following. Just some quick background.

I have had SB's for about 10 yrs. Some a couple mths but several for 1yr or more. The longer ones were exclusive.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963; 1715669]Ok. For those that prefer a longer term situation a few questions.

1) How much a month do you provide as a stipend not including any extras.

I have ranged between 800- 2000.

The highest paid was the very hot. Also the least reliable. Lasted 6 mths. Decent in bed.

My best SB ever is current. 1.5yrs. We initially agreed on 600 mth. But I always do some extras for her. We have taken trips. Sorta a PT GF. And yes. I am emotionally attached but know when she finishes school she will return to her home state. But she is a straight "A" student. Is on an athletic scholarship. When we met. She wanted to focus on school and with training and competing her time is limited. We see each other 6-10x a mth. Often sleep overs. She has stayed in my house alone. I am 26 yrs her senior. She is 23. I am 49. But I am in decent shape and decent looking. She is a solid 7. Cute. 5' 5".110lbs. And as mentioned is athletic so fit. She is the least expensive SB and by far the best. She lives on campus (full ride) about 45. 60 min away. So close. But not too close. LOL. We are exclusive. I am confident as she is very busy and always willing to make time to meet my schedule. She is a great girl and will be missed one day.

2) If you do extras / gifts. What do you usually do?

Gas cards. Spa gift cards.

3) How do you handle the cash part. Direct deposit. Cash in hand. With what frequency. Weekly. Monthly?

I have never just handed my SB cash. May place in an envelope and stick in her purse. Or have left on a counter. Never have done the pay per time. Has been in allowance for. From 2-4x a mth. The longer term ladies were by a prepaid visa that I would load 2x a month.

4) Do you require sexual exclusivity from your SB (or at least like being lied to about it. LOL) [/QUOTE]If we last more than a few mths. Yes.

Hernando and Golf, thank you. Many excellent contributors have made this thread what it is. I discovered a fuel additive that made it fun to race my 1955 Chevy around the track a few times; pretty soon others showed up driving 'vettes, aston-martins, ferraris and an occasional Bugatti. Today we have a real spectator sport.

Extortion: Wow, thanks for the article. Who would have thought the fbi could be an sds best friend?

Ten (more or less) commandments based on "trial and error" method of learning aka the hard way:

1. Empty pockets of every identifying scrap of paper and leave wallet in locked glove compartment in the car, enter FC with only the car key, cash, condoms, antibac, mouthwash, tooth brush and paste, locked cell phone, and a few nondescript clothes to hang in the closet.

2. Park car on other side of hotel from room.

3. Never accompany sb to hotel bar and leave her there alone, she will find out all about you from the bartender or, at a minimum, run a tab on your room number.

4. Never let the girl keep your room after you leave it.