Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County

I am another of those who is looking for an authentic experience of mutual sexual enjoyment. Something I can't get in my primary relationship anymore, for reasons not worth discussing.

This is why I restrict myself to sugarbabies. I would have a difficult time believing, w / someone who is seeing lots of guys for dough, that even if they presented a positive experience, it was real. And I am all about real in my life. I have had dozens of SBs in the past few years. It hasn't hurt that they were all one-half to one-third my age. It is totally exhilarating to bang a girl so hot I would have been scared to approach her when I was her age. Thankfully, many aspects of my confidence have improved w / time and experience, and pleasing someone like that to boot is one. Lots of young girls know that if they are w / an older man, they'll have a lot better experience sexually. It is my counterbalance to the aspects of aging we can't escape.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;6546154]I am another of those who is looking for an authentic experience of mutual sexual enjoyment. Something I can't get in my primary relationship anymore, for reasons not worth discussing.

This is why I restrict myself to sugarbabies. I would have a difficult time believing, w / someone who is seeing lots of guys for dough, that even if they presented a positive experience, it was real. And I am all about real in my life. I have had dozens of SBs in the past few years. It hasn't hurt that they were all one-half to one-third my age. It is totally exhilarating to bang a girl so hot I would have been scared to approach her when I was her age. Thankfully, many aspects of my confidence have improved w / time and experience, and pleasing someone like that to boot is one. Lots of young girls know that if they are w / an older man, they'll have a lot better experience sexually. It is my counterbalance to the aspects of aging we can't escape.[/QUOTE]How much do you have to typically spend to keep 1 of these SBs around? I'm sure a bit uglier one is cheaper ay?

[QUOTE=BraveNuPengwin;6547045]How much do you have to typically spend to keep 1 of these SBs around? I'm sure a bit uglier one is cheaper ay?[/QUOTE]You know, the financial deal is all about your interactions / appeal and what you can negotiate. I have had lovely lovely ongoing 20-something girls in relationships where I was giving her 1000/ mo for 3 meets, as well as covering hotel rooms she booked for us. That is likely my best deal ever. She relocated out of state for a job, I am still in touch w / her, and if she is back to visit, we invariably meet and bang. It won't be often that a May-December relationship of this sort has the kind of chemistry we have, but boy do we.

I was traveling last summer and met up w / a girl who had a real kink for older-younger sex, it was one of the wildest experience I have had. That cost me 600 for once, but I already had a room. If I were in her city we'd still be bangin'. And at a lower price point.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6545909]I don't know. Personally I find satisfaction in making a woman cum, assuming it's a real orgasm. Most of the time in this hobby it's fake, but there are a few unmistakable signs of the rare occasion when you can actually pull off a real one. It's a big turn on for me. The arching of the back, the bucking hips, the moaning, the wetness, and then it's time for me to get off. It adds a lot to the experience, for me at least.[/QUOTE]While as described below I'm on Team Selfish when it comes to paid sex, I totally understand guys who value getting their sex worker off. I like doing it too, but in my personal cost-benefit analysis it's not really relevant, it's just an added free bonus if it happens. Meaning I wouldn't pay more just for that extra satisfaction. But to each their own when spending their own $. We just need to distinguish those seeking mere sexual release from those seeking something "more" from their sex worker (aka your friend or baby or however you regard that girl you pay to spend time with you). Bitter experience has taught me that seeking "more" in this context is a fool's errand & just leads to disappointment, but maybe it'll be different for you. In any event, it's your money and your pleasure, so there's no wrong answer here.

[QUOTE=PelicanT99;6547858]While as described below I'm on Team Selfish when it comes to paid sex, I totally understand guys who value getting their sex worker off. I like doing it too, but in my personal cost-benefit analysis it's not really relevant, it's just an added free bonus if it happens. Meaning I wouldn't pay more just for that extra satisfaction. But to each their own when spending their own $. We just need to distinguish those seeking mere sexual release from those seeking something "more" from their sex worker (aka your friend or baby or however you regard that girl you pay to spend time with you). Bitter experience has taught me that seeking "more" in this context is a fool's errand & just leads to disappointment, but maybe it'll be different for you. In any event, it's your money and your pleasure, so there's no wrong answer here.[/QUOTE]I'm with you. Personally, I cum harder if I have at least what seems to be a mutual sexual experience. I won't pay more for DATY. That's pointless to me. But if she lets me get my head between her thighs and she genuinely enjoys it or at least does a good job of pretending to enjoy it, it makes it better when it's my turn. I always assume provider orgasms are fake unless proven otherwise. I have a few girls I've seen who either had real orgasms or did one hell of an academy award winning acting job, including causing a gush of wetness at the end. I'd much rather get my head between a girl's legs than lay face down and get a shitty massage for half an hour.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6548027]I'm with you. Personally, I cum harder if I have at least what seems to be a mutual sexual experience. I won't pay more for DATY. That's pointless to me. But if she lets me get my head between her thighs and she genuinely enjoys it or at least does a good job of pretending to enjoy it, it makes it better when it's my turn. I always assume provider orgasms are fake unless proven otherwise. I have a few girls I've seen who either had real orgasms or did one hell of an academy award winning acting job, including causing a gush of wetness at the end. I'd much rather get my head between a girl's legs than lay face down and get a shitty massage for half an hour.[/QUOTE]You want to see a provider have an orgasm then go Lisa at Angel FS. Now that gal gives a pretty consistent performance. But it is a turn on either way acting or not.

[QUOTE=PelicanT99;6547858]Bitter experience has taught me that seeking "more" in this context is a fool's errand & just leads to disappointment, but maybe it'll be different for you. In any event, it's your money and your pleasure, so there's no wrong answer here.[/QUOTE]I'll spend my time & effort in pleasing my wife. I just want more sex than once or twice a week.

She's got the comforort and relaxation level where she can reguarly soak the sheets. Problem is, I like both quality and quantity.

Paid gives me the quantity, I'll spend the extra time & effort on the quality. - not investing that time and effort in someone I'll likely never see again. (it is nice as well in having a mix).

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;6546154]I am another of those who is looking for an authentic experience of mutual sexual enjoyment. Something I can't get in my primary relationship anymore, for reasons not worth discussing.

This is why I restrict myself to sugarbabies. I would have a difficult time believing, w / someone who is seeing lots of guys for dough, that even if they presented a positive experience, it was real. And I am all about real in my life. I have had dozens of SBs in the past few years. It hasn't hurt that they were all one-half to one-third my age. It is totally exhilarating to bang a girl so hot I would have been scared to approach her when I was her age. Thankfully, many aspects of my confidence have improved w / time and experience, and pleasing someone like that to boot is one. Lots of young girls know that if they are w / an older man, they'll have a lot better experience sexually. It is my counterbalance to the aspects of aging we can't escape.[/QUOTE]Most men get aroused by the idea of a woman getting off. Thats why virtually all women make those noises. Its built into our wiring.

Women are variable, and there are occasional nymphos, but the vast majority of women don't get turned on by anonymous, emotionless, rushed trysts in places of questionable privacy. We are fine with all that, but they are not. Now imagine that they work 5 days a week, 10-12 hours a day, grabbing small dicks, big dicks, medium dicks. How much of a turn on is that? I would bet money that the last thing they want to see is yet another dick.

If you want a woman turned on, you need to see her regularly, demonstrate some gentlemanly charm, some humor, then take them out to dinner, and build up to some sex in a romantic place. And even then they rarely come the first time. They often have to have sex several times as their confidence in you grows.

So the vast majority of experiences we have are excellent examples of performance art, like Meg Ryan in that movie with Billie Crystal. All of them do some heavy breathing, some "oh baby", some "you are so big", etc. Some are not too good at it, but there are some girls who should earn an academy award. The whole idea is to get you off as quick as possible so they don't get carpal tunnel syndrome from jacking for 30 minutes, and the tip is good, and you might come back and give more money.

So don't take it too serioiusly. Its all a big game. Just imagine you are a big stud, who is somehow the greatest lover this girl ever saw, so much so, that she loves your dick more than the other 100 she has seen that week.

If you want to really see a woman get off, then have a love affair with a civilian. Someone who actually likes you and is attracted to you. And who isn't pulling 10 dicks a day. Thats some real passion, some real connection.

[QUOTE=PelicanT99;6547858] it'll be different for you. In any event, it's your money and your pleasure, so there's no wrong answer here.[/QUOTE]Different guys have different needs. And each guy may have different needs. If the price is right for the whole package, it's a good deal. What's the difference between offering DFK, Greek, fake orgasms, or real orgasms? You get what you fancy if the price is right.

(It's futile to get "more" from a provider when it's not on the menu. Though some may reserve GFE for their regulars as some sort of discount.).

I accidentally tricked myself to see another MILF. She is not bad looking in comparison but gone are the days K-girls wear lingerie and bikinis at the door. She is very skilled, kneeling down to suck my dick sitting in front of the mirror. When it was too intense I breastfeed myself and attacked her 3 holes with my tongue. Then I empty my little load into her bare pussy. It was a small load because I was oversexed. Because of the old Indian med that I found, I was still hard. (The US sold med wasn't as potent.) I couldn't pull out because her pussy said no. I tried again and again but no it said. It was an experience.

Then my fav SW called and so I went to see if anything I can do. I got an erection not long after she got into my car. My pants were too tight for my cock. And so we went for sex again after finishing BBFS an hour earlier. She is a human Viagra. Imagine you pull the hottest SW on the streets or in videos, 100% of the time you will be disappointed. Maybe their makeup hides something. Maybe their naked breasts are too deformed, enhanced or natural. Maybe they have junk in the trunk. Maybe they have a bad personality.

She doesn't disappoint, about 5'6, and looks like a stripper or athlete. Natural breasts pointing forward, firm butt and small waist. A pretty face if you like that exotic look. She has everything you do a double take naked. The disappointments are that she doesn't offer DFK, DATY. She offers BBBJ but at a silly price. That's understandable. If she can offer those she doesn't need to be on the streets. (Most girls don't or you don't want to do it.) She is black with arms covered in tattoos. Some on the body but not in critical places. So I'm not licking some duke's face when I am enjoying her. But she is black so the tats aren't really that visible. I gave her a schoolgirl outfit because she will look the best. She didn't take it off so I had no chance to take it back for laundry. I do that because if you leave it you will probably not see it again unless you specifically ask for it. But that day she was wearing an elastic little black dress in the daytime. If she walks a few steps her dress will reveal a hint of her red micro panties, if you know it's there.

I think "Rants & Stupid Shit" has become "Probing, Honest Self-Reflections" LOL. JK, I find this discussion a lot more fascinating than Parasite Pie's (not real name) 86th post asking for others to relate the details re: sex they paid for and he can't afford, like he misses the old Penthouse Letters stories. Reading others' views actually helps me reflect on and think through my own motivations, rationalizations, decisions; and that's a good thing so thanks!

There is a long article in the 8/5 issue of the LA Times about how Mei Xing, the owner of Sunshine, Rose Spa, Garvey Therapy and others in the SGV was found not guilty on federal trafficking charges. It starts on the front page and continues on two full pages inside. I suggest reading it.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6549871]There is a long article in the 8/5 issue of the LA Times about how Mei Xing, the owner of Sunshine, Rose Spa, Garvey Therapy and others in the SGV was found not guilty on federal trafficking charges. It starts on the front page and continues on two full pages inside. I suggest reading it.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]I had read that story before, very enlightening. Several of the women who had accused MMS of trafficking them had come from other sex work jobs. Not really the innocent victims they claimed to have been.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6549871]There is a long article in the 8/5 issue of the LA Times about how Mei Xing, the owner of Sunshine, Rose Spa, Garvey Therapy and others in the SGV was found not guilty on federal trafficking charges. It starts on the front page and continues on two full pages inside. I suggest reading it.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]The sex trafficking charges were total BS and Mei was incarcerated for three years before she was found not guilty.

[QUOTE=StuDoctor;6550340]The sex trafficking charges were total BS and Mei was incarcerated for three years before she was found not guilty.[/QUOTE]What happened? Did it start with a LE sting, or did a girl claim to be a victim? I know for a fact that many immigrants are coached how to apply for green cards by playing the victim card. The problem with enforcement of this, is that we have a preformed picture in our heads, and we automatically assume its some nefarious trafficker taking advantage of innocent women. The truth of the matter is that most of these girls actively seek out this high paying profession. There are a few who act like they are doing something they don't like, but if you suggest to them to take some English classes and get a legit massage license or get out of the business, they never have the least amount of interest. They are in love. In love with the big money that dwarfs anything they might get from washing dishes, sewing tee shirts, or cleaning houses. My own theory is that US society has become anti-male. Just think of how many times you heard the terms toxic masculinity or patriarchy recently. By extension, no woman would want to willingly provide pleasurable services to men unless forced to do so, so they must be victims. But the upside is that most of Asia is much more male-friendly, and these shops would go out of business if our own society was more open to men and their sexual needs.

I just left a major question post in the Viagra thread, a top level thread, not under any of the states, you can see it from the top menu level. I have come to trust many of you guys who post in this OC section and if you have any thoughts about what I just wrote, I'd be glad to read them.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6562094]I just left a major question post in the Viagra thread, a top level thread, not under any of the states, you can see it from the top menu level. I have come to trust many of you guys who post in this OC section and if you have any thoughts about what I just wrote, I'd be glad to read them.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]I don't know about high-level dosage, but when I started on 5 mg daily for BPE, and holy shit it was like I was 18 again. I'd started on testosterone gel for low T about a year before, and that helped "focus my attention" but I think that Cialis made me harder & maybe bigger than past few years. (T gel also had the unexpected benefit of easing aches & pains after exercise, which improves my mood & willingness to exercise.).

I would say, always consult an actual doctor before playing with medicines in your body. T gel is "like jet fuel for prostate cancer" per my doctor, and I must submit to regular probing to be sure it's not changing. Plus it makes it easier & cheaper to score the meds (my post insurance share of a 90 day Cialis Rx is like $20, although it's a "pre-approval" Rx and requires the doctor to jump some hoops).

The one time I need to go for a drive and waste my time, the Enclave crew isn't working LOL. It's been a couple days. I hope they're okay and it was just caution for the storm. The storm that was nothing but some rain and humidity. Their absence shows how much they contribute to the site. It'd be so empty and boring without them, sigh.

I'm posting this in response to the discussion in the MP thread about legal issues with MPs and posting "in code" on here as is commonplace with some people. As a reminder, I'm a legit spa owner so I know the legal landscape extremely well. There's a few things I can tell all of you.

1. Massage is not a licensed profession in California. In fact, California is the last remaining state that doesn't have a state massage license. What we have is a "certificate," and it is up to each individual city as to whether they want to require the certificate to practice massage or not. Most California jurisdictions do require the certificate. There are a few that only say one person on staff has to have the certificate and all of the other therapists are working under the CMT's supervision, but that's the fairly rare exception. The organization that issues the certificates is a civilian organization, not part of the government. As part of the process, they do vet massage schools and require a certain number of hours of instruction from a recognized massage school.

2. Since there is no California state massage board, regulation of massage establishments is entirely up to the individual cities. You can look up the municipal code for any city just by googling it. You will find that just about every city has a "massage establishments" section in their muni codes. Looking at that for any given city will tell you a lot. You will also find that a lot of cities just seem to copy their massage codes from other cities, as the language tends to be similar from city to city. Costa Mesa is one of the oddball ones that has weird rules that other cities don't have. Things like inward looking peepholes on the room doors, restrictions on light dimmers, and such.

3. One thing that is common is that by holding a massage establishment business license, you subject yourself to random inspections by either city officials or law enforcement. If either shows up, you cannot deny access. Therefore, law enforcement doesn't need to have a search warrant. They can just show up for their random inspection at any time unannounced and you have to give them access, and there has to be a manager on staff to provide them with any information that is needed. Some cities are far more strict on actually enforcing their muni codes than others. CM for example is a pain in the ass, even with massage establishments that are well known to be legit. Westminster doesn't really care that much.

4. The one thing I can say with 100% certainty is that city officials know full well what goes on in all of these places. They don't need to read USASG posts and sort through vague or coded language. They know who the jack shacks are, who the FS shops are, and exactly how things work. Some cities are tolerant of that and some aren't. I've posted before that I lived in Downey for a long time. I no longer live in Downey, but I had a cop in Downey tell me once that they have no interest in busting those places. They'd rather have that stuff going on in the MPs where it's contained, so long as the MPs don't become a nuisance. If they break up the MPs the end result is they just drive the sex work underground where it's harder to monitor and contain.

5. Once again, it doesn't take a LE sting to go after a MP. If a city wants a place shut down, there are 100 different ways they could do it without getting LE involved, and a lot of them can be done so quietly that the public won't even notice. It's not to say that MPs don't get busted, because we all know they do, but the main point is that speaking in code on here isn't going to prevent anyplace from getting busted.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6579322]I'm posting this in response to the discussion in the MP thread about legal issues with MPs and posting "in code" on here as is commonplace with some people. As a reminder, I'm a legit spa owner so I know the legal landscape extremely well. There's a few things I can tell all of you.

1. Massage is not a licensed profession in California. In fact, California is the last remaining state that doesn't have a state massage license. What we have is a "certificate," and it is up to each individual city as to whether they want to require the certificate to practice massage or not. Most California jurisdictions do require the certificate. There are a few that only say one person on staff has to have the certificate and all of the other therapists are working under the CMT's supervision, but that's the fairly rare exception. The organization that issues the certificates is a civilian organization, not part of the government. As part of the process, they do vet massage schools and require a certain number of hours of instruction from a recognized massage school.

2. Since there is no California state massage board, regulation of massage establishments is entirely up to the individual cities. You can look up the municipal code for any city just by googling it. You will find that just about every city has a "massage establishments" section in their muni codes. Looking at that for any given city will tell you a lot. You will also find that a lot of cities just seem to copy their massage codes from other cities, as the language tends to be similar from city to city. Costa Mesa is one of the oddball ones that has weird rules that other cities don't have. Things like inward looking peepholes on the room doors, restrictions on light dimmers, and such..[/QUOTE]Hey Grimmy, always appreciate your posts -this was very informative. Why do you think some places get busted then? Is it due to complaints from locals or other businesses? Any thoughts on the kind of place or features of a place that makes it riskier for mongers?

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6579322]I'm posting this in response to the discussion in the MP thread about legal issues with MPs and posting "in code" on here as is commonplace with some people. As a reminder, I'm a legit spa owner so I know the legal landscape extremely well. There's a few things I can tell all of you.

1. Massage is not a licensed profession in California. In fact, California is the last remaining state that doesn't have a state massage license. What we have is a "certificate," and it is up to each individual city as to whether they want to require the certificate to practice massage or not. Most California jurisdictions do require the certificate. There are a few that only say one person on staff has to have the certificate and all of the other therapists are working under the CMT's supervision, but that's the fairly rare exception. The organization that issues the certificates is a civilian organization, not part of the government. As part of the process, they do vet massage schools and require a certain number of hours of instruction from a recognized massage school.

2. Since there is no California state massage board, regulation of massage establishments is entirely up to the individual cities. You can look up the municipal code for any city just by googling it. You will find that just about every city has a "massage establishments" section in their muni codes. Looking at that for any given city will tell you a lot. You will also find that a lot of cities just seem to copy their massage codes from other cities, as the language tends to be similar from city to city. Costa Mesa is one of the oddball ones that has weird rules that other cities don't have. Things like inward looking peepholes on the room doors, restrictions on light dimmers, and such.

3. One thing that is common is that by holding a massage establishment business license, you subject yourself to random inspections by either city officials or law enforcement. If either shows up, you cannot deny access. Therefore, law enforcement doesn't need to have a search warrant. They can just show up for their random inspection at any time unannounced and you have to give them access, and there has to be a manager on staff to provide them with any information that is needed. Some cities are far more strict on actually enforcing their muni codes than others. CM for example is a pain in the ass, even with massage establishments that are well known to be legit. Westminster doesn't really care that much.

4. The one thing I can say with 100% certainty is that city officials know full well what goes on in all of these places. They don't need to read USASG posts and sort through vague or coded language. They know who the jack shacks are, who the FS shops are, and exactly how things work. Some cities are tolerant of that and some aren't. I've posted before that I lived in Downey for a long time. I no longer live in Downey, but I had a cop in Downey tell me once that they have no interest in busting those places. They'd rather have that stuff going on in the MPs where it's contained, so long as the MPs don't become a nuisance. If they break up the MPs the end result is they just drive the sex work underground where it's harder to monitor and contain.

5. Once again, it doesn't take a LE sting to go after a MP. If a city wants a place shut down, there are 100 different ways they could do it without getting LE involved, and a lot of them can be done so quietly that the public won't even notice. It's not to say that MPs don't get busted, because we all know they do, but the main point is that speaking in code on here isn't going to prevent anyplace from getting busted.[/QUOTE]Great informative post. You just have to look back to what happen in Inglewood back in 2007 or so when an investigation into a rape of a prostitute by cops and the Feds looking into SoCal MPs human trafficking turned up evidence that Inglewood cops were getting free sessions and sometimes while in uniform.

The cops and cities know exactly what is going on. It was a shame because many of those Inglewood MPs had Kgirl talent comparable to what the K-orgs have now. Oriental Acupressure on Manchester was probably the best of the bunch.

Net-Net is put the address in a review instead of a weird flex that you know more than the other guy.

[QUOTE=MobyDirk;6579383]Hey Grimmy, always appreciate your posts -this was very informative. Why do you think some places get busted then? Is it due to complaints from locals or other businesses? Any thoughts on the kind of place or features of a place that makes it riskier for mongers?[/QUOTE]No telling. Election time seemed to be a more common time for busts. February? Of each year is when Human Trafficking task forces do a nationwide enforcement.

Irvine many years ago, on McDurmott had a nice parlor, until as I recall some young attorneys moved in next door and was it a dry cleaners? Forget that detail, but they could hear the girls working or getting worked thru the walls. The attorneys sued landlords, called police, basically did it all to disrupt the parlor next door.

Lake Forest set their sights on Lake Forest Bodycentre. Recall, LF spent something like 400 k to shut down the parlor, which maybe only briefly shutdown, then sold or just another individual opened basically the same business in the same spot.

Details on this one, Korean lady, her son was into BMX racing or stunts. She bought a track and all. She had more than one parlor, in more than one city. She got to basically big time, and probably pissed someone off.

So, to sum up, why do some get busted, others not. Elections, pissing people off by too much traffic or not discreet enough, or just making too much money.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6579322]
5. Once again, it doesn't take a LE sting to go after a MP. If a city wants a place shut down, there are 100 different ways they could do it without getting LE involved, and a lot of them can be done so quietly that the public won't even notice. It's not to say that MPs don't get busted, because we all know they do, but the main point is that speaking in code on here isn't going to prevent anyplace from getting busted.[/QUOTE]Grimmy, thanks again for a wonderful, educational post.

Others might disagree with me, but posting more information, not less on what parlors do what will only help drive more business to parlors that have a broader menu.

The whole supply & demand dynamic, if demand is concentrated in the few full service shops, - ore demand. The supply will soon follow. The false advertizing places that don't provide, will get less business or would need to up their game to remain competitive.

But, perhaps I'm oversimplifying it. Speaking in codes does no one any good. IMHO.

[QUOTE=MobyDirk;6579383]Hey Grimmy, always appreciate your posts -this was very informative. Why do you think some places get busted then? Is it due to complaints from locals or other businesses? Any thoughts on the kind of place or features of a place that makes it riskier for mongers?[/QUOTE]All I can really say is always have your antenna up when patronizing any of these places. Trust your gut, and if your gut tells you that something doesn't look or feel right then keep your pants zipped and get the hell out of there. Busts are somewhat rare, but if you do get caught in a bust or random inspection, keep your mouth shut. You were there for a massage because your back hurt. If they just happen to kick a door open and catch you balls deep in a girl, you didn't pay for it. You came in and got a massage, and everything else that happened was a consensual act between two consenting adults.

What makes busts more likely? I would definitely recommend staying out of cities like Costa Mesa where they keep a close eye on massage shops, even the legit ones. A couple months back an MP opened up in Cerritos. It was reviewed here and I warned people not to go there because Cerritos is a city that doesn't tolerate MPs. A few people mocked me for that here and I even got a couple of threatening messages. I didn't have any inside knowledge, but I do know a few people who work for that city and I know they like to keep a pristine image. Sure enough that place wasn't around for more than a week or two after that discussion popped up here. No LE raid that I could find any evidence of. They most likely took the administrative route and just pulled their operating permit.

I've talked about how Downey is a city that tolerates MPs. If you know Downey, and I lived there for about 24 years, there are 4 or 5 MPs in town that have all been in business for 25-30 years. The city knows full well what goes on in there and they operate completely undisturbed. One of them is even directly across the street from a high school. But one day maybe they get a majority of people on City Council who decide they want their city "cleaned up," so they pass resolutions to shut down the MPs. In the massage industry you usually need what's called a Conditional Use Permit to be open. I won't get too far into the details, but when a CUP is required you have to have a public hearing before you are granted permission to open. That means you have to mail out notices to everyone living within a certain radius of your proposed business informing them of the date, time, and location of the public hearing so they can show up to voice their concerns. It also means you subject yourself to random inspections as I pointed out before, and operating under certain tightly specified conditions. Often the conditions are you must be closed by 10 PM, you can't have blacked out windows, nobody sleeps in the business under any circumstances, etc. If a city wants to shut down MPs, all they have to do is summon owners of those businesses to a special hearing in front of City Council where they have to defend themselves, and if the Council determines they are operating an illicit business they revoke their CUP right on the spot and it's game over. La Palma did that a few years ago. There used to be 3 or 4 AMPs in La Palma and they were more or less undisturbed for a lot of years, until one day LP City Council decided to go after them. I think in that case, the fact that one of them was operating in a medical office building right next door to a doctor's office had a lot to do with it. The doctor's office most likely got annoyed by all of the guys filing into the space next door to get serviced and complained to the city. Again I'm just guessing here. I have no inside knowledge other than knowing how the process works.

Human trafficking can be another trigger. There are places around here that use trafficked girls, and there are Federal task forces going after those. I tend to be on the lookout for signs of trafficking and just avoid those shops, mostly because I don't want to be taking advantage of women who may not be doing this by their own free will. Those shops are also probably more exposed for potential LE raids. Some signs I look out for are any sign of the girls living or sleeping in the shop, shops that get completely new lineups of girls every couple weeks, and any sign of physical or emotional abuse. Not that those are 100% signs that the girls are trafficked, but they're among the most telltale signs. It's a controversial subject when I talk about it here so do your research and draw your own conclusions.

Finally, a place for my stupid shit. I have said that some people don't know how OC works. I mean if you don't know anything or care about the law in the US, you just need to observe and you can find out if your argument is valid. This is all about posting "secret" information or not.

Irvine has been flip-flopping over the years. Now, MP's have no reviews, reported as non-erotic or closed. Lake Forest still has over 40 MPs and everything still goes on despite some LE trouble reported recently. Long ago, I think it's Westminster, required MPs to display signs that they are subject to random inspection, and for their own benefit, there were signs that said no sex provided (which is not true). Some cities do not allow doors or mandate a peephole. Cities can easily get rid of all MPs instead of catching evidence of prostitution in each of them.

Are there actually secrets? The city of Orange has over 80 MPs. I bet you can find prostitution in all of them. It has been the most reliable city for getting hand jobs from college girls paying for college. Green Sign has the 2nd highest number of reviews and 1st in trending. To report or not it's a personal matter. There are reasons to and others not. You can't blame other people. If nobody reports there will be no public forums. Somebody isn't going to MPs week in and week out. If you have a good run for months or years, treasure it and don't blame anyone for ruining it.

Are there any difficulties in finding the location of secret brothels, the k-houses, c-houses, enclave? I'll be an informant if you pay for it. The so-called private locations in OC on HX are only two, which have a run for several years, and before that, the 91/55 location. The two OC locations were also used by the k-houses before that.

California has a long history of don't ask don't tell, except for trafficking, for which LE has to do something every year to justify their extra funding. The trafficking charges failed on the last one in OC.

Now a little about the law. To catch prostitution you have to get caught paying for sex. So if you are posting valid information, people are helped by you. The MPs can handle that easily in case it happens. Money, and condoms on anybody enjoying a nude massage don't count. If they get busted it's not your fault. It's not like it's a drug house. You search and you get drugs as evidence. Even if LE is monitoring your postings online personally, they still have to catch you in the act.

[QUOTE=JamesD2004;6580839]Finally, a place for my stupid shit. I have said that some people don't know how OC works. I mean if you don't know anything or care about the law in the US, you just need to observe and you can find out if your argument is valid. This is all about posting "secret" information or not.

Irvine has been flip-flopping over the years. Now, MP's have no reviews, reported as non-erotic or closed. Lake Forest still has over 40 MPs and everything still goes on despite some LE trouble reported recently. Long ago, I think it's Westminster, required MPs to display signs that they are subject to random inspection, and for their own benefit, there were signs that said no sex provided (which is not true). Some cities do not allow doors or mandate a peephole. Cities can easily get rid of all MPs instead of catching evidence of prostitution in each of them.

Are there actually secrets? The city of Orange has over 80 MPs. I bet you can find prostitution in all of them. It has been the most reliable city for getting hand jobs from college girls paying for college. Green Sign has the 2nd highest number of reviews and 1st in trending. To report or not it's a personal matter. There are reasons to and others not. You can't blame other people. If nobody reports there will be no public forums. Somebody isn't going to MPs week in and week out. If you have a good run for months or years, treasure it and don't blame anyone for ruining it.t.[/QUOTE]I'm the one that posted in the massage thread questioning the practice of including the MP address in a post describing services. After reading all the feedback, some of which included I'm a dumbass (if the shoe fits), as well as taking note of many MP ads that provide lengthy descriptions of the illegal services they offer, all while including their address, I finally came to the only reasonable conclusion. You guys were right and I was wrong. Sorry to LC310, especially, as he took the brunt of my misguided stance. Mea culpa complete.

[QUOTE=GentleSun;6581964]I'm the one that posted in the massage thread questioning the practice of including the MP address in a post describing services. After reading all the feedback, some of which included I'm a dumbass (if the shoe fits), as well as taking note of many MP ads that provide lengthy descriptions of the illegal services they offer, all while including their address, I finally came to the only reasonable conclusion. You guys were right and I was wrong. Sorry to LC310, especially, as he took the brunt of my misguided stance. Mea culpa complete.[/QUOTE]No one is worried about it, aside from the possible forum infraction.

It is a common misconception, that posting here makes a difference. This spot is not the only one, in fact a forum sponsor has details that one might not find here, in a conversation style forum.

I've seen news reports that mention this site and others. Sure, in some regard this might confirm what is going on behind closed doors at some spots. Some new council person might run into this.

So, don't worry, these places will come and go for reasons that most of us, including myself may never know the reasons. Could be, they made their buck and just want out, could be, LE or Code Enforcement actions, Health Department, or could go even higher. Sometimes it makes the news, other times it doesn't.

Some of these places have been hiding in plain sight for decades, while others will make a huge splash and force the hands of what ever authorities that can and willing to enforce.

[QUOTE=JamesD2004;6580839]Finally, a place for my stupid shit. I have said that some people don't know how OC works. I mean if you don't know anything or care about the law in the US, you just need to observe and you can find out if your argument is valid. This is all about posting "secret" information or not.

Irvine has been flip-flopping over the years. Now, MP's have no reviews, reported as non-erotic or closed. Lake Forest still has over 40 MPs and everything still goes on despite some LE trouble reported recently. Long ago, I think it's Westminster, required MPs to display signs that they are subject to random inspection, and for their own benefit, there were signs that said no sex provided (which is not true). Some cities do not allow doors or mandate a peephole. Cities can easily get rid of all MPs instead of catching evidence of prostitution in each of them.

Are there actually secrets? The city of Orange has over 80 MPs. I bet you can find prostitution in all of them. It has been the most reliable city for getting hand jobs from college girls paying for college. Green Sign has the 2nd highest number of reviews and 1st in trending. To report or not it's a personal matter. There are reasons to and others not. You can't blame other people. If nobody reports there will be no public forums. Somebody isn't going to MPs week in and week out. If you have a good run for months or years, treasure it and don't blame anyone for ruining it.[/QUOTE]"Money, and condoms on anybody enjoying a nude massage don't count".

Really? It's for my girlfriend after the massage? Or how do you get away with this?

[QUOTE=BraveNuPengwin;6583403]"Money, and condoms on anybody enjoying a nude massage don't count".

Really? It's for my girlfriend after the massage? Or how do you get away with this?[/QUOTE]That has nothing to do with the topic at hand of posting addresses here.

If I say 123 main street, anytown USA and then give a detailed description of our session.

VS.

I went to this place next to a 7-11 and across the street from a broken streetlight, and a detailed description of the session.

That's the question.

[QUOTE=BraveNuPengwin;6583403]"Money, and condoms on anybody enjoying a nude massage don't count".

Really? It's for my girlfriend after the massage? Or how do you get away with this?[/QUOTE]It's a case of not knowing the difference between the US laws and China. If you don't believe you have to observe some case law yourself.

You don't need to explain. Paying for a nude massage is legal. Having a condom is legal. Having sex is legal too if you didn't pay for it. That's the hard thing to prove unless one of you are stupid to admit it. Or you say or text something on the phone that shows your illegal intention.

As for posting addresses, it's totally unnecessary. Admin has to check whether it's personal information. Just post the name of the establishment.

[QUOTE=JamesD2004;6584315]It's a case of not knowing the difference between the US laws and China. If you don't believe you have to observe some case law yourself.

You don't need to explain. Paying for a nude massage is legal. Having a condom is legal. Having sex is legal too if you didn't pay for it. That's the hard thing to prove unless one of you are stupid to admit it. Or you say or text something on the phone that shows your illegal intention.

As for posting addresses, it's totally unnecessary. Admin has to check whether it's personal information. Just post the name of the establishment.[/QUOTE]All that is true, all is legal. Unless one of the parties admits to LE that the transaction was paid for, LE will have a difficult if not impossible time convicting. Deals can be offered to either party, which shortcut the process. Mongers might not be able to withstand court action of any kind. Our ladies, might be offered one thing or another for turning on their parlor and the owners.

Addresses, this here.

NO PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING INFO! If you post anyone's last name or street address your membership will be deleted automatically.

One could interpret as to include massage parlors as well. I'm not sure I would. I seem to recall, admin2 at some point in time advised against it, but honestly no idea when / where in this forum that was.

For me, bottom line, give an accurate name, an accurate city, an accurate street, for most, that should be enough to look on google maps and find it without driving all over town.

The thing that sucks, mongers seem to have huge problems with correct cities. Green Sign place, is squarely in City of Orange, as is Believe, yet both are on Tustin Street / Ave.

Places on Lake Forest Drive in Laguna Hills are frequently said to be in Lake Forest. List can go on and on.

[QUOTE=OcAmper;6585280]

The thing that sucks, mongers seem to have huge problems with correct cities. Green Sign place, is squarely in City of Orange, as is Believe, yet both are on Tustin Street / Ave.

Places on Lake Forest Drive in Laguna Hills are frequently said to be in Lake Forest. List can go on and on.[/QUOTE]I agree, there have been lots of mistakes on cities, particularly mixing up Tustin the street and Tustin the town. I have posted corrections to the most of the mistakes I've noticed. Also I've committed a couple of these mistakes myself. In that context, please be aware that Believe is in Santa Ana. See the attached Google Maps screenshot. Orange is in the lighter color towards the top.

Lift Her Up.

In response to certain posts in the MP thread about places getting raided / shut down if they get too much traffic or attention, that isn't necessarily true. It certainly can be true, but it depends on a lot more than that. The Fairview shops had a lot more going on than just MPs. High profile cannabis (legal now of course, but still a lot of traffic that contributed to the overall shadiness of the building), a couple of people ending up dead, and various other things going on put that place on the city's radar. And again, this is in Costa Mesa, which is a city that has an extremely low tolerance for massage shenanigans. As I posted before, some cities tolerate MPs and some don't. I know of a few very reliable places in Downey that have been in business for 30 years and the city pretty much leaves them alone. One of them is even right across the street from a high school and very close to a residential district.

There was a place in Pomona years back that some of you might remember. Pomona Valley Health Spa. It was an all out brothel with white and Latina girls. Everything FS. They were a quaint, quiet little spot for years, but residents in the area started complaining about the surrounding streets being littered with used condoms, pages torn out of porn magazines, and even drug needles. The city finally took notice and ran them out. But if they had kept things clean and under the radar they'd probably still have their doors open today.

The Green Sign place could potentially be in danger just due to the amount of traffic it is seeing, but that also isn't necessarily true. It's along a strip of major roadway in Orange that has had quite a few MPs pop up in recent history, so maybe it will be just fine. But say you own a nail salon or hair salon next door, and your female clients start complaining about all of the creepy men showing up to get serviced, and one of those businesses complains to the landlord who complains to the city. Now you have something that the city is likely to take action on. Cities like Orange, Westminster, GG etc are tolerant of MPs as long as they operate fairly under the radar. If they start to become a public nuisance they will take action. That would be my main concern about the Green Sign place. It's not the same scenario as 440 Fair or many of the other shops that got shut down in the past.

Bottom line is every situation is different. Cities that have a lot of MPs are likely tolerating them, until such a time when some politician decides they want their city "cleaned up" and go after the places en masse.

Landlords can be the cause of a parlor closing, as much as any other entity.

Really, the cause of parlors closing, likely unique in nearly every case. Recall, don't recall if the place had a name or not, Monica on Sky Park Circle in Irvine. Place was under the radar. One couldn't just walk in the door and get an appointment. Had to be referred in by someone. BMalibu likely referred many of us. Recall Monica complaining that he was just referring anyone to her place.

During their last months there, think someone had a gripe with BMalibu. Maybe he didn't want to refer this person, maybe something else. Not sure if the person ever got in, but he did write a review of one of the ladies on the prominent review boards, recall it was SantaClaus.

It wasn't much time and the parlor closed. Think the owner or Monica got spooked and decided to close. No idea if she ever managed another parlor. Super sweet lady, enjoyed talking with her after each appointment.

The most funny one, was OK Accupressure. Towards the end, the owners moved it around, from Sky Park, to a place on Red Hill, to Von Karman, One of the places, believe the address was Santa Ana, along the 55, near South Coast as I recall so many years later. Very old industrial complex. They built all the rooms and everything, up and running for a couple months. Went by one day, saw older korean guy, tearing the place up. Apparently, landlords kicked them out. I asked why they are moving, he said "This kind of business isn't allowed here" hahaha.

Green Sign place, like Grimmy says, busy parlor may or may not be a problem. Can see it both ways. Us patrons, we need to be respectful when coming / going from busy parlors. Don't leave trash, don't be counting money going in, don't be waiting in the car observing, etc.

The businesses might have an issue with Green Sign, just due to the increased traffic in the very small plaza parking lot. Limited spaces and might always be full, causing hardships for their own customers. The businesses that are adjacent to Green Sign, could potentially over hear the activities going on, if the girls are especially noisy. That might cause the businesses to call the city / police / landlord or who knows.

Just my opinion, parlors need to keep the customers in as long as possible, shouldn't turn a 30 minute appointment into 10-12 minutes. Sure, more money, but everyone around them will notice men walking in, and coming back out too soon.

Parlors need to look after the customers, make sure they get dressed properly. Again, just don't want things to look too weird.

These places will come and go, often for reasons none of us might ever learn of.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6586510]The Green Sign place could potentially be in danger just due to the amount of traffic it is seeing, but that also isn't necessarily true. It's along a strip of major roadway in Orange that has had quite a few MPs pop up in recent history, so maybe it will be just fine. But say you own a nail salon or hair salon next door, and your female clients start complaining about all of the creepy men showing up to get serviced, and one of those businesses complains to the landlord who complains to the city. Now you have something that the city is likely to take action on. Cities like Orange, Westminster, GG etc are tolerant of MPs as long as they operate fairly under the radar. If they start to become a public nuisance they will take action. That would be my main concern about the Green Sign place. It's not the same scenario as 440 Fair or many of the other shops that got shut down in the past.

Bottom line is every situation is different. Cities that have a lot of MPs are likely tolerating them, until such a time when some politician decides they want their city "cleaned up" and go after the places en masse.[/QUOTE]It seems like when the neighbors get involved, a place will be gone soon thereafter. I remember the FS place in Cypress on Cerritos got shutdown because of the sandwich shop next door. There was a youtube video of a city council meeting where the owner complained about the girls luxury cars parked behind their shop, and how they had a plumbing issue because of flushed condoms. I remember the few times I went there I visited after dark just to avoid all the nosy people next door.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6586510]In response to certain posts in the MP thread about places getting raided / shut down if they get too much traffic or attention, that isn't necessarily true. It certainly can be true, but it depends on a lot more than that. The Fairview shops had a lot more going on than just MPs. High profile cannabis (legal now of course, but still a lot of traffic that contributed to the overall shadiness of the building), a couple of people ending up dead, and various other things going on put that place on the city's radar. And again, this is in Costa Mesa, which is a city that has an extremely low tolerance for massage shenanigans. As I posted before, some cities tolerate MPs and some don't. I know of a few very reliable places in Downey that have been in business for 30 years and the city pretty much leaves them alone. One of them is even right across the street from a high school and very close to a residential district.

There was a place in Pomona years back that some of you might remember. Pomona Valley Health Spa. It was an all out brothel with white and Latina girls. Everything FS. They were a quaint, quiet little spot for years, but residents in the area started complaining about the surrounding streets being littered with used condoms, pages torn out of porn magazines, and even drug needles. The city finally took notice and ran them out. But if they had kept things clean and under the radar they'd probably still have their doors open today.

The Green Sign place could potentially be in danger just due to the amount of traffic it is seeing, but that also isn't necessarily true. It's along a strip of major roadway in Orange that has had quite a few MPs pop up in recent history, so maybe it will be just fine. But say you own a nail salon or hair salon next door, and your female clients start complaining about all of the creepy men showing up to get serviced, and one of those businesses complains to the landlord who complains to the city. Now you have something that the city is likely to take action on. Cities like Orange, Westminster, GG etc are tolerant of MPs as long as they operate fairly under the radar. If they start to become a public nuisance they will take action. That would be my main concern about the Green Sign place. It's not the same scenario as 440 Fair or many of the other shops that got shut down in the past.

Bottom line is every situation is different. Cities that have a lot of MPs are likely tolerating them, until such a time when some politician decides they want their city "cleaned up" and go after the places en masse.[/QUOTE]Another way that an MP gets closed down is when the Feds get involved.

There is the case with the Texas motocross track that was purchased and run by an MP owning group who were under the radar of the feds for money laundering. I believe this is the case where one of their MPs were in Inglewood and the investigation exposed that Inglewood PD were going into the place for free sex sometimes even in uniform. This ended up bringing down all the MPs in Inglewood and some that had been there for decades. Until the SoFi stadium opened many of those MP locations remained vacant for a decade or more. The city would rather have MPs there than nothing.

Same thing goes for human trafficking. If the feds investigation leads them to an MP that has been there for decades in an MP friendly city, it doesn't matter as there is a good chance that all the MPs in that city/town will go away due to the attention the investigation brings forcing the city to act. Local papers and community groups love these stories adding to the pressure.

The bottom line is that putting an address of an MP and reporting what happened here in a forum is:

A) the purpose of these forums and the content is what makes the owner of this site money
B) is not going to jeopardize the closure of an MP

The guys that do the code crap are just looking for a flex.

[QUOTE=LC310;6587688]Another way that an MP gets closed down is when the Feds get involved.

There is the case with the Texas motocross track that was purchased and run by an MP owning group who were under the radar of the feds for money laundering. I believe this is the case where one of their MPs were in Inglewood and the investigation exposed that Inglewood PD were going into the place for free sex sometimes even in uniform. This ended up bringing down all the MPs in Inglewood and some that had been there for decades. Until the SoFi stadium opened many of those MP locations remained vacant for a decade or more. The city would rather have MPs there than nothing.

Same thing goes for human trafficking. If the feds investigation leads them to an MP that has been there for decades in an MP friendly city, it doesn't matter as there is a good chance that all the MPs in that city/town will go away due to the attention the investigation brings forcing the city to act. Local papers and community groups love these stories adding to the pressure.

The bottom line is that putting an address of an MP and reporting what happened here in a forum is:

A) the purpose of these forums and the content is what makes the owner of this site money
B) is not going to jeopardize the closure of an MP

The guys that do the code crap are just looking for a flex.[/QUOTE]Feds are only going to get involved if there's money laundering or trafficking involved. Unfortunately the fact is that almost 100% of our favorite shops are doing some sort of money laundering. They're running cash based operations and I can tell you with 100% certainty that they're not reporting anywhere near their entire income, so they have to bury the money somewhere. That means they're also practicing tax evasion. Trafficking does exist but it isn't as prevalent in MPs as it once was. Most of it has gone to the streets or more underground. So there definitely is potential for the feds to get involved as well, but for the most part you're going to find that enforcement comes from the individual cities, and the ones that have a lot of MPs generally aren't going to care that much, until they do.

Bottom line is be respectful to the community. Don't loiter, keep noise down, don't leave trash in the parking lots, especially things like used condoms and porn magazines, and it will all contribute to keeping our favorite shops under the radar. Downey Massage was one of my old favorite haunts when I lived in Downey. It has been around for 30 years and stays pretty low profile, despite being right by a high school and very close to houses. It stays quiet enough that it doesn't seem to bother the neighbors at all. Most of the neighbors probably don't even realize it's there. That's the key.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6587795]Feds are only going to get involved if there's money laundering or trafficking involved. Unfortunately the fact is that almost 100% of our favorite shops are doing some sort of money laundering. They're running cash based operations and I can tell you with 100% certainty that they're not reporting anywhere near their entire income, so they have to bury the money somewhere. That means they're also practicing tax evasion.[/QUOTE]For an MP, tax evasion and money laundering are contradicting things. To use an MP for laundering, you can find a bad location for cheap, make up fake visits and everybody pay $300. Then you can spend the money legally and take a cut of the cash for profit. That's unlikely for the small sum laundered.

Yes AMPs should just keep to their 30 minutes or 60 minutes.

Let's be honest everyone's done in 15 minutes or so. So yah. It's obvious the haters or a rival shop / ex AMP girl will ruin a busy shop. BTW looks like hypno and green shop which is literally across from shell / del taco, saw a Tustin pig pull over someone leaving hypno right before he got on the 55 freeway. No puss is worth a ticket let alone a sex offender ticket. So you horny guys. Keep going to those places. Just saying.

[QUOTE=AlCapone2006;6591545]saw a Tustin pig pull over someone leaving hypno [/QUOTE]Santa Ana PD right?

That shop isn't in Tustin, it is right next door, though, but still out of Tustin's jurisdiction.

[QUOTE=AlCapone2006;6591545]Yes AMPs should just keep to their 30 minutes or 60 minutes.

Let's be honest everyone's done in 15 minutes or so. So yah. It's obvious the haters or a rival shop / ex AMP girl will ruin a busy shop. BTW looks like hypno and green shop which is literally across from shell / del taco, saw a Tustin pig pull over someone leaving hypno right before he got on the 55 freeway. No puss is worth a ticket let alone a sex offender ticket. So you horny guys. Keep going to those places. Just saying.[/QUOTE]So, a Tustin cop out of his jurisdiction saw a guy walk out of a legal business and pulled him over to give him a "sex offender" motor vehicle citation that is not even thing?

AMAZING! 🤦🏻