Mighty Mick's Boxing Club

[QUOTE=RoboPimp;5964282]Rehabilitation is getting fixed.

We are talking about broken human Beans.

The purpose of prison is to Rehabilitate.[/QUOTE]Not sure why you quoted me when we agreed on the same premise of "the purpose of prison is to rehabilitate" when Shampoo was the one who denied it. Regardless, rehabilitating and "fixing" are definitely not the same as I described the difference in regards to going to prison in my original statement.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5964111]Seriously? You believe incarceration is meant to "rehabilitate" a person? LOL! Incarceration is there to PUNISH people in hopes they won't offend, or at least get them out of society because we are afraid of "those people!

If the drug rehabilitation process is so wonderful then why does it have a 90+ recidivism rate? Sounds like a terrible spend of your tax dollars and insurance premiums! Pumping money into a process that fails 90% of the time, for whatever reason. Would you be happy going to a mechanic that failed to fix the problem 90% of the time? Just keep going back to the same guy and maybe it will get fixed?

But programs offered in prison as a way to fix yourself? LOL! What exact programs are you talking about? Who are they available to? What is the entrance and exclusion criteria?

Look, I get where you are coming from as I use to "think" like that. But being in this hobby got me curious about addiction / heroine and I did some research. What I found shocked the shit out of me and made me change my views. BUT I was willing to change views as that is a sign of growth and maturity and it didn't threaten me. I didn't need to stick to old dogma or uneducated points of view.[/QUOTE]Prison is meant to punish, yes, thank you for stating the obvious. There's a reason why the obvious does not have to be stated, but I guess common sense isn't so common anymore these days. First usage of prison is to punish for wrongs committed so that it *may* help to deter the individual from doing said wrongs ever again. Second usage of prison is to rehabilitate, I. E, because you spent X amount of years in prison, you might lag behind when returning to society. Therefore, while in prison, there are programs and courses established to help hones one ability / skills / whatever talents to make them a useful, productive person in society again when returning to the general public.

Next point of emphasis: there's a difference between "prison rehabilitation" and "drug rehabilitation. " I touched on the former and you are arguing the latter.

I'm not sure why Shampoo has a problem with prison being a punishment.

Does he think crime should be awarded?

Prison is supposed to be tough.

"Hey Mr. Drug dealer would you please stop commiting your crimes poisoning the community?

"Excuse me Mr. Murderer, even though you are under arrest we are going to you watch cable TV all day in Prison and talk on cell phones smuggled in by our corrupt because.

Then we are going to release you in 10 months as long as you promise to be a gud boi".

Shampoo, you can't coddle criminals.

Far left liberbal democrat policies have destroyed this city.

These Democrat policies have ruined city life, and have emboldened Criminals.

[QUOTE=AnonBuxz;5964341]Not sure why you quoted me when we agreed on the same premise of "the purpose of prison is to rehabilitate" when Shampoo was the one who denied it. Regardless, rehabilitating and "fixing" are definitely not the same as I described the difference in regards to going to prison in my original statement.

Prison is meant to punish, yes, thank you for stating the obvious. There's a reason why the obvious does not have to be stated, but I guess common sense isn't so common anymore these days. First usage of prison is to punish for wrongs committed so that it *may* help to deter the individual from doing said wrongs ever again. Second usage of prison is to rehabilitate, I. E, because you spent X amount of years in prison, you might lag behind when returning to society. Therefore, while in prison, there are programs and courses established to help hones one ability / skills / whatever talents to make them a useful, productive person in society again when returning to the general public.

Next point of emphasis: there's a difference between "prison rehabilitation" and "drug rehabilitation. " I touched on the former and you are arguing the latter.[/QUOTE]No, tell me what are the SPECIFIC programs in our local prisons that rehabilitate people locked up? How many of the population are able to participate? What are the criteria to include a person in the "rehabilitation" and who gets excluded?

If you can answer those questions from a position of facts and not assumptions, we may have common ground to discuss things.

[QUOTE=RoboPimp;5964351]I'm not sure why Shampoo has a problem with prison being a punishment.

Does he think crime should be awarded?

Prison is supposed to be tough.

"Hey Mr. Drug dealer would you please stop commiting your crimes poisoning the community?

"Excuse me Mr. Murderer, even though you are under arrest we are going to you watch cable TV all day in Prison and talk on cell phones smuggled in by our corrupt because.

Then we are going to release you in 10 months as long as you promise to be a gud boi".

Shampoo, you can't coddle criminals.

Far left liberbal democrat policies have destroyed this city.

These Democrat policies have ruined city life, and have emboldened Criminals.[/QUOTE]Hahaha, what is the point of trying to have a conversation with you about facts when all you can do is degenerate the discussion to name calling, make outlandish assumptions of my views and other obfuscate stuff? What does that make you? Enlightened?

It's too bad your view are so narrow as you appear to be a pretty good monger.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5964673]No, tell me what are the SPECIFIC programs in our local prisons that rehabilitate people locked up? How many of the population are able to participate? What are the criteria to include a person in the "rehabilitation" and who gets excluded?

If you can answer those questions from a position of facts and not assumptions, we may have common ground to discuss things.[/QUOTE]In the year of 2022, with smart devices at your easy disposal, you want to wait on someone to tell on something on an internet forum rather than simply googling it yourself? Christ almighty.

BTW, they're not assumptions, they're facts. Again, look it up. You can crack a book or take a college class on it too if you want.

In response to Frank in the SW thread:

Any "boyfriend" you see on the ave is usually a half-assed Pimp.

Not even Pimps. They are just a guy who is finessing your money from these girls.

Finessing, Strong-arming, or playing the role of Boyfriend.

I just do not understand how anyone can let / make ther girl walk the streets.

It is sick.

[QUOTE=AnonBuxz;5964755]In the year of 2022, with smart devices at your easy disposal, you want to wait on someone to tell on something on an internet forum rather than simply googling it yourself? Christ almighty.

BTW, they're not assumptions, they're facts. Again, look it up. You can crack a book or take a college class on it too if you want.[/QUOTE]Also, how would we people that assumably have never been to prison, know which specific programs there are?

I was a CO in a Halfway house and there are programs but I can't remember those shits.

It was a decade ago.

All I know is that criminals get every opportunity in the world to turn their life around.

It fails in cities because Super Left Democrat SOCIALISTS don't make prison hard enough.

Bail, Probation and all these other programs need to be ABOLISHED.

All we need to fix society is ridiculously long prison sentences 100% served.

The deterrent to commit crime would be firmly set in place and cities would become nice places to live.

[QUOTE=RoboPimp;5971428]Also, how would we people that assumably have never been to prison, know which specific programs there are?

I was a CO in a Halfway house and there are programs but I can't remember those shits.

It was a decade ago.

All I know is that criminals get every opportunity in the world to turn their life around.

It fails in cities because Super Left Democrat SOCIALISTS don't make prison hard enough.

Bail, Probation and all these other programs need to be ABOLISHED.

All we need to fix society is ridiculously long prison sentences 100% served.

The deterrent to commit crime would be firmly set in place and cities would become nice places to live.[/QUOTE]Without getting into left vs. Right, generally I agree with you that we are not tough enough on crime in this country. I believe things happen because we tolerate them happening, and part of that tolerance is the ease with which people can offend, escape any serious punishment and quickly reoffend.

However before we get to "ridiculously long prison sentences 100% served", you have to consider that you'd be judging everyone. From the first time offender to the person with a rap sheet thicker than your arm. At the single worst moment of their lives, and making them pay with years and years of confinement for their first mistake.

Sure, there are plenty of people on the streets who shouldn't be there. And I believe firmly in some sort of three strikes system (or two, or four. We don't have to be held to Abner Doubleday's rules here). I think for many crimes (violent or quasi-violent), the more you keep breaking the law the longer and longer your sentence should be, until perhaps you have no chance of ever getting out.

But I'm not comfortable sweeping up every first time offender and whisking them behind bars with hardened criminals.

That's not justice. That's lunacy.

[QUOTE=AnonBuxz;5964755]In the year of 2022, with smart devices at your easy disposal, you want to wait on someone to tell on something on an internet forum rather than simply googling it yourself? Christ almighty.

BTW, they're not assumptions, they're facts. Again, look it up. You can crack a book or take a college class on it too if you want.[/QUOTE]LOL! Typical response from a dude who has no clue. If you knew what the programs were you could name them, but instead the 2020's cop out. Google it!

BUt yer diverting the convo. "rehab" for junkies has a failure rate of greater than 90%, Why don't you get all excited that your tax dollars are being wasted on those programs? Or is it ok to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Oh wait! That's the definition of insanity! Well, shit, we can't be insane so instead let's just blame the victims! Sigh.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5973568]LOL! Typical response from a dude who has no clue. If you knew what the programs were you could name them, but instead the 2020's cop out. Google it!

BUt yer diverting the convo. "rehab" for junkies has a failure rate of greater than 90%, Why don't you get all excited that your tax dollars are being wasted on those programs? Or is it ok to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Oh wait! That's the definition of insanity! Well, shit, we can't be insane so instead let's just blame the victims! Sigh.[/QUOTE]"Typical response from a guy who had no clue. " Like I said, why would I waste my precious time explaining something to a random stranger on the internet in exquisite detail when he can't help himself by just doing a little bit of work. Mind you, it's a little bit of work that would net you most of the answers that you so desperately believe they don't exist. I've studied in this field since 2014, so I know for a fact, via primary source education, that such rehabilitation programs exist.

Word to the wise: don't question someone else's intelligence in a losing effort when it's so clearly everyone vs you in accordance.

[QUOTE=AnonBuxz;5974058]"Typical response from a guy who had no clue. " Like I said, why would I waste my precious time explaining something to a random stranger on the internet in exquisite detail when he can't help himself by just doing a little bit of work. Mind you, it's a little bit of work that would net you most of the answers that you so desperately believe they don't exist. I've studied in this field since 2014, so I know for a fact, via primary source education, that such rehabilitation programs exist.

Word to the wise: don't question someone else's intelligence in a losing effort when it's so clearly everyone vs you in accordance.[/QUOTE]Been studying since 2014 and still doesn't know that most drug "rehab" programs have a 90+% recidivism rate? LOL!

Just having a program is one thing, having a program that actually WORKS would be even better!

But hey, it's OK. Easier to blame the victims than hollar for a change to something that works.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5974419]


But hey, it's OK. Easier to blame the victims than hollar for a change to something that works.[/QUOTE]But yet you sit on your pulpit degrading others for taking advantage of these so called "victims" as you victimize them for paying them for a BJ. Priceless LOL.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5974419]Been studying since 2014 and still doesn't know that most drug "rehab" programs have a 90+% recidivism rate? LOL![/QUOTE]The only thing that's LOL here is the fact that you still can't read. You were told several days ago that the topic is about prison rehabilitation / crime recidivism and not "drug rehab" but yet you still think it's about the latter. This discussion is over until you can prove that you have enough brain cells to engage in stimulating conversations.

Btw, stop lying through your teeth; the "drug rehab" failure/recidivism rate is not at 90%: https://www.legacytreatment.org/blog/rehab-success-rate-statistics/

[QUOTE=AnonBuxz;5974526]The only thing that's LOL here is the fact that you still can't read. You were told several days ago that the topic is about prison rehabilitation / crime recidivism and not "drug rehab" but yet you still think it's about the latter. This discussion is over until you can prove that you have enough brain cells to engage in stimulating conversations.

Btw, stop lying through your teeth; the "drug rehab" failure/recidivism rate is not at 90%: https://www.legacytreatment.org/blog/rehab-success-rate-statistics/[/QUOTE]FWIW, the failure rate is not 90%, but it's also nowhere near the high percentages posted on the legacy treatment website.

The data is always subjective in how "success" is measured. The rehab centers measure it in a way that makes their programs look successful. Other studies slant it the other way, as high number get better media attention or more funding. Real numbers are hard to get accurate, as relapsing addicts are not easy people to survey. I have no dog in this fight, but I do know from personal experience that the numbers that counselors are given for 2020/21 is that 40% to 60% of addicts that complete rehab will relapse within 1 year. The number of people that completed rehab and died from overdose within the first year was said to be as high as 8% one year, and that was before fentanyl was a thing.

Speaking to the rehab options in prison: you just have to consider the setting. You literally have a captive audience with nowhere to go. Sure for some people it sticks and they maintain sobriety when they get out, but most people are just passing time. The programs in prison usually have nowhere near the success that other programs do, and even those are a long shot. Very few offer much beyond AA and NA, there simply isn't the staffing for consistent group therapy. At least this is what I get as feedback.

[QUOTE=Farouk;5974723]FWIW, the failure rate is not 90%, but it's also nowhere near the high percentages posted on the legacy treatment website.

The data is always subjective in how "success" is measured. The rehab centers measure it in a way that makes their programs look successful. Other studies slant it the other way, as high number get better media attention or more funding. Real numbers are hard to get accurate, as relapsing addicts are not easy people to survey. I have no dog in this fight, but I do know from personal experience that the numbers that counselors are given for 2020/21 is that 40% to 60% of addicts that complete rehab will relapse within 1 year. The number of people that completed rehab and died from overdose within the first year was said to be as high as 8% one year, and that was before fentanyl was a thing.

Speaking to the rehab options in prison: you just have to consider the setting. You literally have a captive audience with nowhere to go. Sure for some people it sticks and they maintain sobriety when they get out, but most people are just passing time. The programs in prison usually have nowhere near the success that other programs do, and even those are a long shot. Very few offer much beyond AA and NA, there simply isn't the staffing for consistent group therapy. At least this is what I get as feedback.[/QUOTE]Exactly! So to say that there are programs out there and thus no one should be an addict is just plain ignorant! Yeah, we want to believe that we as society are doing the right thing to help people, when in fact the programs in general are a terrible failure!