Gt Rider, just to clarify, are you saying that when the bouncer told you to empty your pockets and you complied, that he didn't return all your money? It wasn't exactly clear in your report. Thanks.
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Gt Rider, just to clarify, are you saying that when the bouncer told you to empty your pockets and you complied, that he didn't return all your money? It wasn't exactly clear in your report. Thanks.
GT sorry about your "shake down". I normaly get to Roxy's one a month, I would agree with Rosco, report it to management there is no need for an incident like that. A few months back I was there with a buddy and he was unhappy with a dance he got in the back and talked to the manager about it. This guy was quick to give my buddy his cash back and give us a couple drinks too. Management knows buss. Is slow, they wan't to keep good customers happy. I am like Rosco, I myself have had pretty good luck with extras at Roxy's too. Never had any kind of "Bouncer Issues" yet. That being said, I did have the parking lot guy tell me it was takeing me too long to get out of my truck, I aksed him if he thought his boss wanted me to spend my cash there or elsewhere. His attitude changed after that. Bottom line it could happen to anyone at anytime, so don't let it stop you from going there to do what you want. GT keep reporting, that's what this forum is for.
BIGT
Rosco- Yes, the bouncer told me to empty my pockets, I did so, and he demanded everything I had. Luckily it was the end of the night and I didn't have a whole lot left, basically just enough to cover the price I had already negotiated with the dancer. Because I'm certain the bouncer and the dancer were working as a combo, I'm not sure if he kept it all or split it with the her.
Also at Roxys, I had good luck with the black guy working the bathroom hooking me up. The chics he had working inside the club always delivered, and if you needed meds he was good for that as well.
A long time ago, like probably in the mid 90's, I had a problem with a dancer at Fantasyland and figured I would go complain to a manager. That went over like a lead balloon, I was basically told to go F' off, so I didn't even think about approaching a manager at Roxys after my problem.
I was at Brooklyn over the weekend and a worker informed me that several of the clubs have bought land around them. In the very near future they may be going to fenced, pay lots. This could just be some random talk, but if you look at the "trucker's lot" across from the clubs, there's been some grading and survey staking. I guess cars not parking on those lots will still have the city streets and I think we'd all stop to pause before parking on those, especially late-night. Again, this is not official, but sounds possible.
Will cross-post to St. Louis board.
O314.
(Looks like this might be my 100th post. Go me.)
Went to Roxy's early afternoon. PT's not open until 4pm now. No one was in there but me. Saw Spring, who is a little older, but she is smoking hot. We talked and cuddled a bit. She quoted $$ for the VIP. Not sure if I trust her enough to believe that I would be satisfied. Plus, didn't have enough to partake. She did mention that she didn't have the proper equipment and I would have to provide my own. Might take her up on it when I have more money. She's well worth the $$. She is hot. On to WP.
Too bad Pt's is not opening till later. Used to love to chill there if I could get out of work early. The girls who had been there since noon were usually so bored, they were anxious for any customers. I guess it's not surprising if no one is there early in the day, why waste money by keeping the doors open.
Decided to stop back in tonight after hanging with some faves in wash park for a while. They were all closing up at 2-ish, and I knew this place is open till 5, so stopped in on the way home.
$5. 00 cover. 2 white girls and 3 black. One smoking hot white girl was just getting off stage as I walked in, standing in the corner in just her g-string. An ass you could bounce a quarter off of with sweet C possible D cups. Nice and firm. She immediately started attacking me, rubbing you know where, grabbing my hands and putting them everywhere, including in her g-string. She said it was her first night and wasn't sure how everything worked with regard to the privates, but she was asking me to get her in back where we could have fun. Now having been doing this for a minute or 2, I'm game to the "we can have fun" routine. In this case, I knew she was dead serious and it was going to be a wild ride. I paid 10 to the house for hand-stamp, and off we went.
We went behind the curtains on the lower level and it was basically off to the races. We agreed on a flat ben franklin for no set amount of time, as opposed to the "per song" routine. She was right. A great time was had by both.
No FS, as neither was prepared, but BBBJ, fiv, fia, lots of squirming and dirty talk, HJ, and ended cot. I will definitely repeat as she was a hardbody, with great ass and rack. Said she will be working at least wed-sat nights. Oh I forgot, her name is Brandy. We were behind the curtains for about 6 songs, and she did say she was told that a tip goes to the DJ in the amount of 3 bucks per song. Since we were back there for about 6 songs, I contributed an extra 10 at the end to cover some or most of the tip to the DJ.
The other white girl wasn't bad either, but not as hot as this one. I did catch the other one on the way out and mention that next time I would spend a little time with her. All in all a nice time, and I left right after. Heck I never even bought a drink, and no one hassled me to do so, as I went straight for her when I walked in. Sorry I was in a fog when finished so didn't think to get a pic, but will next time.
[QUOTE=Tallaser2001;1189542]Went to Roxy's early afternoon. PT's not open until 4pm now. No one was in there but me. Saw Spring, who is a little older, but she is smoking hot. We talked and cuddled a bit. She quoted $$ for the VIP. Not sure if I trust her enough to believe that I would be satisfied. Plus, didn't have enough to partake. She did mention that she didn't have the proper equipment and I would have to provide my own. Might take her up on it when I have more money. She's well worth the $$. She is hot. On to WP.[/QUOTE]Springs fun inside or outside the club.
Hit up the Brooklyn clubs last weekend, had not been inside for 10 years and was interested in the changes now with the VIP rooms. Started at Roxy's and got to see all the hipster, tattooed girls. I felt bad for a couple of them because there were a lot of guys there and no one sitting at the stages. Had a couple beers and talked to the waitress working the door. She gave me the run down on the VIP rooms. 150 to take a dancer in there for 30 minutes. 250 if you want to take a waitress in. There was a nice looking brunette waitress working so I asked if she was up for it, she does not do VIP's, leaves it to the strippers.
Walked across the street to PT's and was immediately targeted by a nice looking Hawaiin / Asian girl (could not hear her name). I let her dance a bit for me a stage and they she started the hard sell for a VIP room there. 380 for 30 minutes. When I asked what it included, she said 'there is no FS, others might but I do not do it'. My response was 'with the promise of spending 380 and knowing I am not going to have sex, what kind of idiot do you think I am'. She kept on trying to talk me in to the room to the point I could not really get to a stage with a good looking girl wearing the schoolgirl outfit and glasses was dancing. I ended up leaving when my stalker went up on stage and headed back to Roxy's where two tiny white spinners had joined the troupe. I went to the stage on one and got an extra special bonus when she came to dance for me, since I always take the seat with my back to the wall facing the crown so no one can see what I am doing (or what the girls are doing). I asked her for a VIP dance but she had one already to do and said she would come get me in a bit. Went to the stage of the other little spinner and ended up getting just the private dances from her (no VIP). This was the best decision I made all night. While we were waiting for the next song, she told me she does do VIP's but there are no extra's. She said if I was interested she could get me a girl who did but as I had already paid this one, and it was late, I declined. While I was in the private area the other little spinner ended up getting an emergency call and had to leave right away, so I have no idea if she provides any extras.
In the end, only I could find the two strippers in Brooklyn who do not provide extras in or out of the club.
[QUOTE=STLguy1980; 1225255]Hit up the Brooklyn clubs last weekend, had not been inside for 10 years and was interested in the changes now with the VIP rooms. Started at Roxy's and got to see all the hipster, tattooed girls. I felt bad for a couple of them because there were a lot of guys there and no one sitting at the stages. Had a couple beers and talked to the waitress working the door. She gave me the run down on the VIP rooms. 150 to take a dancer in there for 30 minutes. 250 if you want to take a waitress in. There was a nice looking brunette waitress working so I asked if she was up for it, she does not do VIP's, leaves it to the strippers.
Walked across the street to PT's and was immediately targeted by a nice looking Hawaiin / Asian girl (could not hear her name). I let her dance a bit for me a stage and they she started the hard sell for a VIP room there. 380 for 30 minutes. When I asked what it included, she said 'there is no FS, others might but I do not do it'. My response was 'with the promise of spending 380 and knowing I am not going to have sex, what kind of idiot do you think I am'. She kept on trying to talk me in to the room to the point I could not really get to a stage with a good looking girl wearing the schoolgirl outfit and glasses was dancing. I ended up leaving when my stalker went up on stage and headed back to Roxy's where two tiny white spinners had joined the troupe. I went to the stage on one and got an extra special bonus when she came to dance for me, since I always take the seat with my back to the wall facing the crown so no one can see what I am doing (or what the girls are doing). I asked her for a VIP dance but she had one already to do and said she would come get me in a bit. Went to the stage of the other little spinner and ended up getting just the private dances from her (no VIP). This was the best decision I made all night. While we were waiting for the next song, she told me she does do VIP's but there are no extra's. She said if I was interested she could get me a girl who did but as I had already paid this one, and it was late, I declined. While I was in the private area the other little spinner ended up getting an emergency call and had to leave right away, so I have no idea if she provides any extras.
In the end, only I could find the two strippers in Brooklyn who do not provide extras in or out of the club.[/QUOTE]Good choice leaving PT's they used to have a scam in there on there private dances. It went like this you pay for a private the girl goes with you to the area and starts your dances and makes a excuse tells you she will be right back and does not come back. If you complain there is a big black door man that will tell you to leave. I am not saying all the girls do it but there are a few. Happened to me and a group on a bachler party a couple of years ago. I have heard this happen too other people managment could have fixed the problem by now but I will not go back till I know for sure it has been resolved.
Be safe dr440
[QUOTE=Questop;1222681]Springs fun inside or outside the club.[/QUOTE]As a follow-up to most other recent post, I did meet up with Spring yesterday at Roxy's. Had a blast for the reasonable sum. She works hard and it seems like she really enjoys what she does. Got contact info, so I will be following up with her at the undisclosed location. Good times.
[QUOTE=Tallaser2001;1235845]As a follow-up to most other recent post, I did meet up with Spring yesterday at Roxy's. Had a blast for the reasonable sum. She works hard and it seems like she really enjoys what she does. Got contact info, so I will be following up with her at the undisclosed location. Good times.[/QUOTE]She has been giving pretty good service in and out of the clubs for years going back to the old days of Platinum Club, PT's Sauget and now Roxy's. Just be careful and I can assure you it can be had for less than $$. The last time was at PT's for BBBJ and FS lap dance in private area a few years back. She is not above giving it up in the back seat at the end of her shift either. She is a good time.
Earlier this summer, I had a great visit with a dancer at PT's Brooklyn, but didn't get her name. She had raven black hair, probably an A or small B cup and a great ass. She was working Friday night. I forgot her name, but have not seen her the last couple of times I've stopped by. Anyone know who this might be?
Posted in the wrong thread earlier.
Anyone familoar with a dancer named Christian at Club 64?
Inside or outside the club?
[QUOTE=Dodgeram 440; 1225309]Good choice leaving PT's they used to have a scam in there on there private dances. It went like this you pay for a private the girl goes with you to the area and starts your dances and makes a excuse tells you she will be right back and does not come back. If you complain there is a big black door man that will tell you to leave. I am not saying all the girls do it but there are a few. Happened to me and a group on a bachler party a couple of years ago. I have heard this happen too other people managment could have fixed the problem by now but I will not go back till I know for sure it has been resolved.
Be safe dr440[/QUOTE]FWIW, P. T's, Roxy's, Penthouse, Sports, and P. T's Centerville are all run by the same management company Entertainment Consultants Inc. The Main office is located in the same warehouse as Penthouse club in Sauget. In the event of Shinanagains, first ask to see the Director on duty (start on site). Most are dumb as a box of rocks. If on site Director (manager) doesn't resolve the issue simply leave. No sense trying to push the issue in any of these clubs if management isn't on your side.
Once safely off site, keep your ticket stub (it's your proof of where and when you paid admission) go visit another club in the chain as mentioned above. Request to see the director on duty, inform him of the situation, and tell him you want to talk to the "area supervisor". There are several floating area supervisors, always at least one on duty. Skippy, Rich, Bill, et al. Any of the Supervisors will take such a thing very seriously.
If the above doesn't resolve the matter, Entertainment Consultants is a listed, Michael Ocello is the top dog. I'd start with the Supervisor on duty though, you'll likely not need to go any further.
Happy Mongering,
Arturro
[QUOTE=Arturro; 1294085]FWIW, P. T's, Roxy's, Penthouse, Sports, and P. T's Centerville are all run by the same management company Entertainment Consultants Inc. The Main office is located in the same warehouse as Penthouse club in Sauget. In the event of Shinanagains, first ask to see the Director on duty (start on site). Most are dumb as a box of rocks. If on site Director (manager) doesn't resolve the issue simply leave. No sense trying to push the issue in any of these clubs if management isn't on your side.
Once safely off site, keep your ticket stub (it's your proof of where and when you paid admission) go visit another club in the chain as mentioned above. Request to see the director on duty, inform him of the situation, and tell him you want to talk to the "area supervisor". There are several floating area supervisors, always at least one on duty. Skippy, Rich, Bill, et al. Any of the Supervisors will take such a thing very seriously.
If the above doesn't resolve the matter, Entertainment Consultants is a listed, Michael Ocello is the top dog. I'd start with the Supervisor on duty though, you'll likely not need to go any further.
Happy Mongering,
Arturro[/QUOTE]I will have to make a trip there just to see if it is still going on. Thanks again be safe dr440
[QUOTE=STLguy1980; 1292225]Posted in the wrong thread earlier.
Anyone familoar with a dancer named Christian at Club 64?
Inside or outside the club?[/QUOTE]Is she a tall, thin brunette, in her 30's, small breasts and great nipples? If this is her, I spent some quality time with her a couple of years ago. Haven't seen her in quite a while. She was terrific upstairs in the VIP and is a squirter. I lost track of her when she quit the club and always wondered what happened to her.
[QUOTE=Dodgeram 440;1294407]I will have to make a trip there just to see if it is still going on. Thanks again be safe dr440[/QUOTE]Roxys used to be my favorite club. When they started charging for a wristband to get in the private area, it just lost much of it's appeal. Sort of like you've been "marked" as a dumbass. If you like young AA girls try Bottoms Up, or head to Wash park. In the past year or so, Dollies has taken over as my "top spot". If its dead at Dollies, Blondies and MK are on the way home.
If the big wigs at Entertainment Consultants want Roxys to return to it's former position as "best dive" they need to rachet the pricing down a bit, and drop all the wristband crap. A guy can go to Dollies with $50 and have a LOT of fun. $50 at Roxys barely gets you in with a beer, wrist band, and maybe one 3. 5 minute dance. See why your numbers are off from previous years? Get those VIPs down to $100-$120, ditch the wristbands and I'd be back to my former "regular status".
Wishful thinking huh?
Happy Mongering,
Arturro
Haven't been to Roxy's in like 15 years since I had moved out of state. On Tuesday nights they used to do a "shower show". Don't know if they still do it, but they had a big glass shower stall on one of the walls. They would have two girls get in, and would "lez out" as long as guys were throwing wadded up bills in the shower with them. It was cool for a little while, but would get a little boring after a while. They did great lap dances though, and I always regreated not trying to ask for more services with the lap dance, or after the club closed.
I have been busy and my extra-curricular activities have been reduced over the last few months but I wanted to at least post an update since there doesn't seem to be much activity in the Strip Club Reports.
Had time on a Saturday and headed to Brooklyn. Forgot PT's opened later on Saturday so I went to Roxy's. Place was pretty dead, maybe three other customers. Ordered a beer (seemed like that was an inconvenience) and watched the girls on stage. No one attractive enough to warrant me walking up to the stage. Several girls sitting at bar but no one asked if I wanted company. Finished beer and left.
Next visit was to PT's. I've been to PT's a few times recently and there are a few new girls worth getting to know. Two older but hot white females I met are Brandi and Tee. Went upstairs with both on separate occasions. Brandi doesn't mind Mr. Happy making an appearance and her manual dexterity is very good. Tee is more by the book but still very much a hottie and provided an enjoyable experience. She may loosen a bit if she knows and trusts you but I am not sure if I want to spend money to figure that out.
Have not seen Candy or Carly on the last few visits. Will need to ask next time I'm in if they are still working there. Perhaps they have moved to nights and I usually visit during day shift.
Went over for a quick drink, was entertained by short hair blonde with a president's last name Extra's may be available.
Have had the chance to stop in recently. Girls are ok, nothing to get too excited over. I have had the pleasure of enjoying a blonde dancing skills. Her stage name is shared with a president, and she is a good time. Extras are available if you play cards right.
Her real name is Courtney and she goes by Chase. She is well known for lying and ripping people off. I`ve seen her have someone waiting in a car on the side lot by the side exit and run out the door on some poor guy while h`es upstairs waiting after the payment. Don't trust her you've been warned.
Days, Ginger is very pretty, fit, brown hair and nice. Will return for another visit.
[QUOTE=Ou Hobby; 1343367]Days, Ginger is very pretty, fit, brown hair and nice. Will return for another visit. [/QUOT]
I think she use to work over in Pt Centerville back in the day before she got prego. Does she do any extras?
I've heard about this incredible PT's golf tournament and have been dying to play in it. I can't find anything by googling it. Anyone have any info on it? Much appreciated!
J
Been going to Roxy's lately. Great dancers. Sassy great stage dance. Took a girl named KC to "the love zone" great private dance no extras though.
I accidently posted this question on the Washington Park forums, but I was wondering if anyone knows the whereabouts of a former dancer named Desiree (spelling?) who used to work at Roxy's maybe 3 yrs back.
She was white, late 30s, toned, brunette, and had a Kentucky accent. Any help is appreciated. Her extras were killer, and at no extra cost. BBBJCIM, DATY.
[QUOTE=Surrrge; 1373586]I accidently posted this question on the Washington Park forums, but I was wondering if anyone knows the whereabouts of a former dancer named Desiree (spelling?) who used to work at Roxy's maybe 3 yrs back.
She was white, late 30s, toned, brunette, and had a Kentucky accent. Any help is appreciated. Her extras were killer, and at no extra cost. BBBJCIM, DATY.[/QUOTE]Was that her name? I remember getting a couple of dances from her one night. She was head down and ass up the whole time. Best I ever had. I thought it was because she was drunk that night, didn't realize that was her standard.
[QUOTE=Tomg01;1374072]Was that her name? I remember getting a couple of dances from her one night. She was head down and ass up the whole time. Best I ever had. I thought it was because she was drunk that night, didn't realize that was her standard.[/QUOTE]Yeah that's what she went by. I think she might have just worked there for a couple months that's all. Sucks I can't find her anymore
Was in St Louis a few years back (many) for a University of Kentucky basketball game. We went to some clubs across the river into Illinois where they had a shower set up at one end of the room. Two then three girls got in there for a special show and were DATY rather vigorously on each other and it was not fake. Does that still happen? If so where and when?
Does anyone know what dancers actually pay the clubs for house fees and private dances?
Varies from club to club and shift to shift.
Took a trip to East St Louis and visited many of the strip clubs there. I am from Memphis (until 2012 by most standards was one of top 5 strip club town in US. I would have put it behind Tampa) Sl was one of the few main cities I had not visited.
Brooklyn.
Went to PTs, Roxys, Pink Slipper and Bottoms up.
PT. Nice club but WAY over priced. Was there on a Friday, late afternoon and early night. 6 or 7 girls working. Mostly 6-7's maybe an 8 and a 5 thrown in. (I am not into bertha butt girls or overweight. So take my scale accordingly) They were quoting $$$ plus for private rooms. Normal VIP was $10 wristband and two for. 4 dances. Good bit of contact and was suggested more would happen in the higher priced rooms. Mix of races, latin, white, black. Mostly white.
Roxys: Club was small and not as nice PT's but nicer than most of the WP clubs. About 6 girls working. Mostly 5-6's. Maybe one 7. Mix of races. Mostly White. Did not see anything worth inquiring about. Had a drink and left in under 20 minutes. Spring was one of the ladies there.
Bottoms up: Was there on Friday and Sat. Club was about same as Roxys. Mix of races but 85% black. On Friday there were 9-10 dances and was surprised that most were 7-8's with maybe one 9. VIP's we in back room with partitions. Reg Chair. Dances were. 25 with. 05 going to house. Could get them down to 3 for. 5. Not nude but close with lots of contact, above and below. They did have an VIP room with couch which was open to main floor. Extra's were available. On Sat night there were 15 or so dancers. Quality was down. Mostly 5-6's with maybe one 8. If you like "thick" or heavy then you would love it. Kitchen was open after 10pm on sat.
Pink Slipper: Behind Bottoms up. All of these are in same "block" Was about 6 dancers between 5-8pm. Most were 5-7 with one 9. One VIP room was 0. 5$ and extras were on the menu. Except for the 9. She gave me her number but did not use VIP rooms. This club was the most "nude" club out of the bunch. Dances were 10 each on the floor and 20-30 in private room. Discounts were available. After 9pm more areas of the club opens. (kitchen also) Few mores dancers came in but nothing over a 7. Mix of races, but mostly black.
All of the above clubs had security in the parking lot most of the time. Just be aware where you are if walking between clubs.
Washington Park area- most clubs are really dumps. Think metal sheds or old farm buildings.
Was only there between 4pm and 7; 30 pm on Sat. Besides Hollywood I do not think there was but one 7 in the entire group of clubs. Mostly 3-6's. Maybe a few 2's. Most said shift change started about 8.
C-Mowes: 3-4 dances. Stayed 5 minutes and left.
Wise Guys: 5-6 dancers. This club had the one 7. Mostly 5's. Mix of races 50-50. Had VIP area or 2 for 30 lap dances in open. Extras were on menu for VIP rooms Believe it was. 5$ for the room plus girl.
Blondies. Dim very small club. 3 girls. Stayed 5 mins and left. Most dancers "coming in later"
Something Across the street from Blondies. 6 dancers. Mostly 5-6's. Nothing higher. Had a private VIP where we "could have alot more fun" Nothing interesting so I left after about 20 minutes.
Miss Kittys. : Same area as Hustlers, Hollywoods. Right off interstate. 5-6 girls working. Again mostly 4-6's. Went in about 5 pm and again around 7pm. Nothing changed. Stayed 20 minutes both times and left. Had private VIP room but dancers there would IMO would be been waste of money. Even with extras.
Hollywood club. : Nice club with well lite parking lot. Girls wanted $$$ and up for VIP rooms. (one hour with $ going to house) Go feeling that it would be mostly a standard lap dance. 7-8 dancers. Mostly 6-8's. Mix of races. Mostly white.
Overall the cover change in all of clubs were lower than what you see in many cities. Before 7pm was free or under $5. 00. Drinks were cheap over all. (3 for OJ, Coke, redbull) About the only thing you would call higher class was they mostly did not allow smoking.
Overall I found Quality (I expected more on Sat, afternoon and night) to be very low but extras were available (1. 1$. $$ for girl and room) but at higher prices than say Old Memphis.
Be careful
[QUOTE=Surrrge; 1373586]I accidently posted this question on the Washington Park forums, but I was wondering if anyone knows the whereabouts of a former dancer named Desiree (spelling?) who used to work at Roxy's maybe 3 yrs back.
She was white, late 30s, toned, brunette, and had a Kentucky accent. Any help is appreciated. Her extras were killer, and at no extra cost. BBBJCIM, DATY.[/QUOTE]I saw her today at the club across from Blondees on Forest. Same name, description, and she was drunk at 5PM.
She wanted me to buy her a drink, which I sometimes do, bit not for her.
[QUOTE=Ontheroad; 1440147]I saw her today at the club across from Blondees on Forest. Same name, description, and she was drunk at 5PM.
She wanted me to buy her a drink, which I sometimes do, bit not for her.[/QUOTE]The Desiree that I saw at Dollies last week is the one with huge bolt-ons and has worked at C-Mowes and Chameleon over the years. May or may not be the same one from Roxy's.
[QUOTE=Missery;1440691]The Desiree that I saw at Dollies last week is the one with huge bolt-ons and has worked at C-Mowes and Chameleon over the years. May or may not be the same one from Roxy's.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. Who knows it might be her. The Desiree I knew had a killer body for her age, but no enhancements, at the time. But this was a few years back.
[QUOTE=Surrrge;1444535]Thanks for the info. Who knows it might be her. The Desiree I knew had a killer body for her age, but no enhancements, at the time. But this was a few years back.[/QUOTE]The Desiree I am referring to has had the enhancements for well over 10 years.
[QUOTE=Surrrge;1444535]Thanks for the info. Who knows it might be her. The Desiree I knew had a killer body for her age, but no enhancements, at the time. But this was a few years back.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Missery;1445787]The Desiree I am referring to has had the enhancements for well over 10 years.[/QUOTE]Don't You'all wish that all the hookers & strippers would get ahold of "a big book of baby-girl names" & get more creative with their working\stage"names" for a change? Seems like 90%+ of them all use the same list of a couple_dozen names; gets really annoying! Not to mention confusing! But I guess that's' handy for the rip_off's & scammer's as it makes it terribly difficult for us to distinguish those rip_off's & scammer's from the good ones that we want to find!
"If it was easy then everybody would be doing it"
Sincerely,
A K