Sexual Addiction Reports

[QUOTE=Fred Reed]I have found that running a LiveCD version of the Linux Operating System offers very good security. Nothing is saved on your hard drive. The best part is that it doesn't use Microsoft Windows for anything!

To learn more visit: [url]http://www.knoppix.org/[/url]

Fred[/QUOTE]

You'd think a senior member would be smart enough to post security information here:

[url]http://usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=371&page=1[/url]

rather than in the middle of a thread on sexual addiction. But what do I know?

[QUOTE=Block Partier] But then theres keystroke trackers and there's no hiding from those.[/QUOTE]


Oh my friend, I am most happy to report to you here and now that you are mistaken. Sometimes it's nice to be wrong eh? Keyloggers are actually very simple little devices. If it is a piece of software, spybot will find it and kill it: end of discussion. If it's hardware, it's a little more complicated than running spybot, but once you know it's there (either between your keyboard and the big box under your desk - or the card type that slides under the keyboard itself) than what's stopping you from fucking with it?

I promise you that if you google "keylogger hack" you'll see that it is easier than you think to simply reprogram the EEPROM memory with whatever you'd want: or desolder it, or fill it to capacity with Lorem Ipsum Text... whatever.

Google is your friend. So are drop out EE students.

Benchseats Rock

I find myself falling in love with so many of the great escorts I have used.

We wonder why we are addicted to amp's well a hot 25 or 30 yr old beautiful gives you a wonderful hot shower drys you off, always friendly to every detail drys you off, gives u a wonderful massage sucks u then does u and then we wonder why we like to go do it, in my city I have 2 that are great and convient to me. Oh well.

[QUOTE=Benchseats Rock]

Google is your friend. So are drop out EE students.

Benchseats Rock[/QUOTE]Yep, Google is a friend. I was looking up what kind of spyware LE uses. Seems they have programs that many of the large vendors of PC protection programs have agreed to overlook. So LE can spy and not be detected. Of course they would never abuse the capability I am sure. This is a nation with the rule of law after all. BTW, Kaspersky was named as one of the vendors that refuses to cooperate with LE.

HW

I thought it was appropriate for my last post to be here in the addiction forum. I am out of here, done, finished. This addiction has cost me more than I can pay. I have lost a family because of this.
I have found a group to help me with this problem and will be doing whatever is necessary to be successful. I am canceling my account and killing my e-mail account.

Never again.

[QUOTE=Masterful One]I thought it was appropriate for my last post to be here in the addiction forum. I am out of here, done, finished. This addiction has cost me more than I can pay. I have lost a family because of this.
I have found a group to help me with this problem and will be doing whatever is necessary to be successful. I am canceling my account and killing my e-mail account.

Never again.[/QUOTE]


Godspeed. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[QUOTE=Masterful One]I thought it was appropriate for my last post to be here in the addiction forum. I am out of here, done, finished. This addiction has cost me more than I can pay. I have lost a family because of this.
I have found a group to help me with this problem and will be doing whatever is necessary to be successful. I am canceling my account and killing my e-mail account.

Never again.[/QUOTE]


OK whatever! - Look forward to your post later today!

Amazing, does it control us or do we control it, I guess according to how much we push the envelope. A lawyer friend of mine said women control all the pussy and money in the world. Makes sense, I too have taken some bad hits, and backed off a bit, maybe being more choosy. Taking friendly partners at local amps, good luck.

Interesting thread started over here in So Cal forum guys.

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=470532&postcount=957[/url]

Regards,

Preverted

[This will be quite a long post. I'm sorry if I've over-taxed anyone's patience. I invite you to move on to other threads, if you don't like the way I write. :)
]

I've often wondered if I too am a "sex addict" or merely a guy with a libido, perhaps an active one. Or am I simply a non-conventional thinker who is willing to act in ways that are often outside of society's typical dictates, more so than the normal sheep being fattened in the Dilbert-style cubicle? I know I get fired a lot because of my inability to "fit in," despite markedly amazing ability to perform tasks that contribute greatly to the organization's productivity and profit. Heck, I even TRY to act like I'm "fitting in" and I still get fired. Different issue

For me, sexual addiction / over-drive (yeah, I'll call it "my sex drive is in over-drive") sometimes goes hand in hand with alcohol abuse. Several episodes come to mind, in no particular order.

Once I went to a party where everyone around should have been "on my side" but it turned out that I got so wasted I was effectively without ability to determine my own actions. In the course of the evening, it turned out, I was "date raped" by the hostess. I didn't even know it happened until later when all my memories came flooding back to me -- her holding me down with a heavy chest of drawers and grinding her body on me, other weird stuff.

Another time, I had just discovered Jaegermeister, and after finishing basically a fifth of it while hanging out at a strip club, I then went to drive back to my hotel. I awoke at the wheel of my car facing the wrong direction in the middle of a suburban six-laner wondering how I got there, vaguely remembering the squealing sounds and the sensation of spinning.

Another time, as I headed out for an intoxicating night (you know the feeling, revving it up and knowing you're gonna have excitement) I realized I could MONGER without DRINKING. This didn't cause me to stop drinking, eventually, at later dates, but it did allow me to enjoy my mongering a lot more when I chose to do it sober.

Another time, in a smaller town, I ended up with a wig-clad ageing wrinkled crack 'ho in my car with me. She was bent over my crotch going at it (quite well, IIRC) and I realized she was groping down into the foot-well to snag my wallet. I kept my wits about me enough to bide my time and then try to grab it back from her at a moment that my dick was no longer inside her mouth, but the ensuing fight and violence, rolling about in the back seat of my car, me elbowing her across the jaw with a hideous crack, and so on -- that will stick with me. I got the damn wallet back, and in flight from the scene I threw my monogrammed metal hip-flask (recently emptied of its alcoholic content) out the car window for it to remain relinquished to the powers, no longer in my possession.

Another time, after a binge of street-driving, I ended up with a $10 crack 'ho who let me do her standing upside my truck. Another took me to her trailer in a trailer park in the midst of a semi-industrial area of a major city and explained she was eighteen. She looked fifty.

Sometimes the selection of mongering sober or drunk doesn't seem to be truly "in my hands," nor does the selection of whether or not I'll actually monger at all seem to be "my own volition," though I entirely know that it is, and that any claim otherwise is simply my own weak psyche trying to pass the buck.

One thing I often believe, is that if DANGIT I could get a "decent relationship" with a girl who was "hot enough" for me, I probably wouldn't monger, or want to monger, any more. This may merely be a pipe dream. I have dated some very sweet, nice, girl-next-door types, but none were especially confident about social interactions or about their capacity to "please a man." They were the sorts of girls who didn't know how to put on make-up, maybe tom-boy-ish or just less than wonderfully attractive. Cute but not sexy, maybe. I've had about six or five of these longer-term committed relationships in my life, and for all of them, I knew within the first week that it wasn't destined to last because the girl wasn't sexy enough for me, and nevertheless for all of them they lasted right up to about eighteen months long.

During some of these committed long-term relationships, I mongered (thus, by definition, "cheating"), while during others I did not. I look back now and can't really make a connection among the reasons why or why not -- maybe the more unhappy I was with the girl AS A PERSON (rather than, as a girlfriend), the more likely I was tempted to monger? It isn't exactly consistent, and anyway a sample size of six is rather limited.

Another thing that comes to mind for me, is that as I get older I do lose the "need" to monger. I had a rollicking time in my mid-20s, really wasting a lot of money that would better have been spent on other pursuits. I didn't maximize my monger experience, neither relishing the girls or the setting or even learning more about pleasing a woman or letting a woman please me (lessons all men can go about absorbing into our mental databases all our lives). More, just feeding the need.

Anyway, as I get older, maybe my sex drive is just diminishing -- I used to have so much energy I couldn't sit still to read a book, because after three pages I'd have to run outside to do ten laps around the track. Gaining a little weight actually benefitted my mental powers, because I slowed down, dropped off the "quantum high performance athlete" circuit, stopped trying to be an Olympian at everything I did, and started to be able to sit still longer.

I really think that this partly has to do with having other things to do with my time. To work 40 hours a week ends up taking nearly all my waking hours. What with commuting, eating, bathing, and being at the office from 8 am to about 6 pm five days plus all the "mandatory volunteer time" we all put in, I don't get it all done. Literally. I don't need sex-addicts anonymous, I need sleep-addicts anonymous. (If anyone has any "concierge" style hints about how to fix this problem, I'd be happy to hear them. Paying someone to wash my laundry -- not just the dry-cleaning and pressing, but also the undies, sheets, etc. -- is my biggest time-saving advice, to date. Not having a pet or a yard is another.)

I remember the first street walker I picked up, and the attendant huge amounts of excitement that I experienced. I pumped the air with my fist, jumped up and down in my car, yelled and screamed "wahoo!" as I drove her back to her stroll and left the area. It seemed that a huge load had been lifted, and all the prissy cunts who had blue-balled me in my personal past experience had been "taught a lesson" somehow by the universe at large.

And yes, I had indeed been blue-balled. I had gone to a preppy prissy private college where, basically, I didn't "fit in" (although, as above, I wonder at my ability to "fit in" anywhere at all), and had ended up "cuddle *****" to several girls without ever gettin sum. I wanted a "normal" interaction, a positive relationship, and even if the girl had demanded that she remain a virgin until marriage but was lying there next to me fully clothed and saying "gawd it's hard to resist" but did resist, I probably would have been happy. Instead, I got a lot of manipulative girls who treated me like I was evil for wanting to fuck -- and then off they went to fuck other boys instead. They'd say, when I asked how I could pick up a girl maybe at a bar, "I only ever end up in realtionships with people that are my friends first," but then when I befriended them they'd say, "I don't want a relationship with you because it would ruin our friendship." (If you aren't familiar with the term 'cuddle *****' I'm sure you can figure it out, but there's much more expostulation on it at the 'Ladder Theory' website.)

I basically wasn't wise to this manipulative habit of young women until I was well into my thirties. I haven't ever really gotten "the girl that I want," and instead (see above) have been relegated to dating women whom I deemed as "second best" or "not ideal" or even as "not desirable at all," largely because I am not much of an expert at "playing the games that people play." So, mongering for me is the only way I've found to consistently fulfill a need. If I had better relationship skills (one older British-sounding dude, with his Lindas and Lisas, posting a few years back, probably could benefit from this advice too) then maybe I'd value the act of wooing a woman and having her then submit to me. But I must say categorically, I've never succeeded at flirting and wooing and winning (well, maybe once). The girls go out with me because I'm a better catch than them. This is kind of cool -- "hey, he's so smart and cute I gotta date him no matter how dorky he acts," they seem to be thinking -- but also kind of a dead-end situation -- "hey, he has no skills. I only want him for his money." Same as street walkers.

One big thing I benefit from, is the belief that there's something better to move on to. The girlfriends have all been more interesting to me as people, than most "providers" (prostitutes, strippers, street walkers, web escorts). Sometimes the novelty is necessary for me, but not to an addictive extreme, to the point that I'm ruining my life over it. The alcohol is what ruins my life, and I've just got to damned well admit I'm a problem drinker. I have gotten into some obsessive-compulsive spirals with my mongering, though I have also seen them kind of get back into control on their own (without hitting rock bottom). So, in seeking something better to move on to, I try to believe that I can learn to "land a hottie" and can learn to PREFER the act of TRYING to land a hottie, than the act of cruising the street. I do know the rush, and the zone-out-and-keep-doing-what-you're-doing, of street cruising. It kind of makes me sick to think about it right now, because I associate it with past binge drinking.

Puking a belly full of Jack Daniels on a street girl isn't something positive to remember. Pissing a bladder full of Sam Adams onto a studio lingerie model isn't either. Or going back a week later to apologize, only to find out that in my stupor I had driven off without my pants and DIDN'T KNOW IT. True stories, I am ashamed to say.

Another thing, I gotta mention it, is faith in a higher power. I've never regularly attended church (and frankly I HATE the oppressive Puritanical influence that organized religion has over our society). But when I started reading the "Chronicles of Narnia" books by C. S. Lewis, which I'd recommend to any adult, and to any parent who wants to get his or her kids started on thinking about "doing the right thing" and having a meaningful life, I did have a type of religious growth. I'm a bright enough guy to have already known about things like Aramaic and the Gnostic heresy and St. Thomas Aquinas and the Hegira and Krishna's umpteen arms and Tibetan prayer wheels, and even William James' damn "experiences." I'd read enough Emerson and Thoreau (and sometimes return to them just for solace) but I'd never really gotten that this higher power thing could be something less than intellectual. It's a mental, internal, mind-oriented act, to be sure; just like getting horny or craving chocolate, it takes place mostly in our neuro-transmitters (or whatever you want to call the ghost in the machine). But it's also NOT VERY SMART.

So after I read Narnia, I went on to some of Lewis' other mediations -- his more adult-oriented thoughts on Christianity ("The Screwtape Letters," "Mere Christianity," haven't read "The Problem of Pain") and his sci-fi trilogy (very wonky and dated, like Jules Verne: "Out of the Silent Planet," "Perelandra," "That Hideous Strength"). I found that although I hardly agree with him on the more intellectual points, I still can do two things. First, I can marvel at his own clarity of mind and purpose. (He manages, with all arguments and discussions, to close all doors and seal all windows. His room is contained. I sometimes still feel a draft, but he can sure say he's shut up all sources of wind.)

Second, I can parallel his experience with my own. I know, it's silly, kind of child-like (in the best sense), but I talk to my own personal Aslan. I ask a God-like glowing imaginary lion questions about the direction of my life. I have a personal relationship with him. He doesn't actually offer any answers, usually, and certainly doesn't say anything that I can't construe as something I made up out of my own mind. But I somehow, just because I've been STEEPED in Lewis and faith for a while, can RELY on him and on the SHOW of faith in my life much better than I could beforehand.

And this faith thing makes my mongering more sensible. I can back off of alcohol much better. I take or leave my mongering more carefully. Maybe this is just an illusion, and will fade (like so many other good intentions to leave off of destructive pursuits). I still go visit strip clubs, and I love it, and I really feel very little guilt about it. I am single, and don't have a committed girlfriend, so the only way I'd be hurting someone else by it would be the typical "ancillary effects" that prostitution always engenders, if it does -- the supposed things like helping an addict to pay for her fix, or degrading women by treating them like objects, or all that other twaddle that I can neither shoot down nor defend.

I have other tricks. Here is too much information: I have learned a new masturbation technique (and fer Gawd's sakes! stop spelling it "master" GEEZ!) that involves using a latex vagina and humping it, rather than using my hands. I know, it sounds lame but, actually, get this! It works better! I set the thing up between pillows and towels, lube up, and can still watch internet porn if I want to. But instead of stroking willie with my hand, I am humping the vagina-thang. This allows for not just the release that is necessary, but also something that I had under-valued until I discovered the utility of such a device: the bodily position. By humping with the whole body, and by grasping a plush object AROUND the vagina rather than grasping the dickie himself, you are simulating a wholly different experience. And thereby, you are stimulating different mental experiences, different endorphins.

Maybe this, too, will wear off over time. But for now, it leaves me satisfied that I have "had my girlie fix" rather than merely feeling, "all I did was jack off, so what if I cum or not?" which is how a previous jack-off might have left me feeling.

Because my employment situation is quite lame, I'm anticipating moving cities. I don't know if this will be a good development or a bad one. I do know I'll be seeking somewhere much larger than where I am now, so that means that the opportunities for mongering will increase. Now, I have to drive about 3 hours, either to New Orleans or to Memphis, for adequate strip clubs and massage or provider. I like the clubs, and spend a lot of money on them. I might end up in San Francisco, which is famous for ready availability of mongering opportunities. Will this feed the addiction? Or will the fact that I'm in a larger city mean I'll have more ready social outlets? I know, as I've said, one thing that I wrestle with is the viable opportunity for real social life, with friends and associates as well as with girlfriends. Ideally, I'd be able to slake my sexual desires through non-paid means. I'd still want to fuck as often as I could have through mongering.

Interesting point -- if I "kick" the addiction, but am still fucking just as often though not fucking street walkers or in other ways instilling undesirable activities or experiences into my life, am I still addicted?

Well, this has been quite a long post. It's great that I have the opportunity to present it, and I know a lot of you will just scroll right through it. But if anyone has some bright comments to offer, I'd be happy to hear them and discuss further.

Book Guy, That was a great post. Thank you for taking the time to write it and share it with us.

Prostitution is all about getting the kind of girl and action you want. If the girl is willing then I see nothing wrong with that.

[QUOTE=Civ2000]Book Guy, That was a great post. Thank you for taking the time to write it and share it with us.[/QUOTE]Hey Civ2000, thanks for responding. I'd love to chat more, but after this and a couple other posts, I'm going pretty much radio-silence as far as internet forums go, for a while. I'm moving cities so computer and internet access will be limited while in transit.

And forums are bad for me. They take up too much of my time, obviously. And, an important point, they also contribute to the downward "addiction" (if it really is that) spiral by both sapping my real-world social life, and by immersing me in thoughts about irresponsible mongering (as opposed to "responsible mongering," a concept I still cling to as a longer-term goal) as well.

But if you'd like to write further, or let me know anything that might help me, or ask me anything I might know that might help you, please do send a missive somewhere: my email is at yahoo, with an underscore (but not at e-Bay! that's a different dude!); PMs here at this website might not get checked very often, no more than once every third week or so, but you can try.

I'm just reading the San Fran Chronicle stories about international K-girl trafficking and I'm getting that sinking feeling in my stomach, all about how I ought to behave better and how much time and money and personal psychic stores of "intimacy capacity" and "interpersonal quotient" I've used up on poor investments. I know the feeling will fade when it comes time to go at it again with a hottie, but right now I'm contrite. I don't know how I'd be able to monger, if I had to do without the bargain-basement version. I'm exactly the customer who has been supporting those businesses.

I wonder what your thoughts are, on the idea of "getting enough" from a real-world partner or two or ten? Is it possible? Maybe if all us mongers were to change our professions so that we were in fashion photography (meeting young impressionable models all day) or in screen writing (meeting hot willing failed Hollywood starlets at auditions all day). Would that just be hell in the temptation, or would it actually lead to the possibility of slaking some of these desires?

In the long run, as I look at it from that point of view, I start to believe that ALL men are mongers (well, all naturally heterosexual adult human North American males). Some of us get our jollies one way, some another way, and some just don't ever figure out how to put their resources into trying to get their jollies. Fashion photographers probably are a varied lot, some of them banging all the models and some of them frustrated as hell and going off to the AMPs near the fashion district. The trick isn't to become a fashion photographer, or I'd just go buy up some digital cams and flashes and set up a website. Rather, the trick is to become the one in your circle who gets to bang all the models.

As I was saying, my current theory is to have something better to turn to. That better thing, is a two-fold strategy -- A. on the one hand, clinging to the belief that I'll some day be able to "land a hottie" and therefore get some sexual gratification in a real-world manner rather than in a USASG manner; B. on the other hand, focusing on the serotonin rewards of learning to push another person's romantic buttons (in an effective way) and learning to be an effective Don Juan who can "pick up" girls, and ENJOY the act of getting them to submit to him. (By the way, item B. is fraught with danger. There are a LOT of ways that women SAY they want to be wooed, that they don't actually respond positively to. Different issue, but as long as you know that you shouldn't go about being sappy and romantic in the hopes of making the girl feel romantically inclined towards you, you're avoiding that pit-fall.) To do that, I'll have to start LIKING the act of interacting with strangers who are hot and female. Their frivolity and ineptitude, nowadays, so turns me off that I actually can't stand talking to them even IF they're sending signals that they might want to fuck me (and anyway, I have learned often and the hard way that their sending of signals means, absolutely, jack-squat-zilch). There's a lot about flirting I have yet to understand, before I can make it work for me rather than against me.

So, what I'm looking at is an attempt at a new life focus. It involves, basically, improving my social life to the point that I have some goal-oriented behavior there. Dunno if it will work. Mainly, I don't know if I can remain focused in the way I want. What happens when I go to a club, meet hot girls, DON'T get laid, and get home at 11 pm on a Friday night horny? I think we all know what the next step might be!

I received an interesting PM about my post, too. One fellow suggested I should look into the alcohol abuse, and I do agree. It's a totally intertwined issue. I don't think I am a sex-addict. But I do think I am a binge-drinking alcohol addict, therefore a form of alcoholic.

I hereby admit, my binge-drinking (for that is the form it takes) has been a huge addiction and therefore a problem. I don't know if it is a response to my life situation, or a cause of it. I do know that it has never interfered with anything other than my capacity for "real world" relationships, because I've never let it get to be a problem on the job, or with my parents, or during the holidays, or anything like that. The only time I've gotten so shit-faced I didn't know what the hell I was doing, was when I was also planning on mongering in order to get a girl. It is a problem for my intimate relationships only in the sense that it goes along with my mongering, and therefore prevents me from seeking sexual gratification from a more traditional romantic partner. But that's essentially the only manner in which the drinking interferes with the rest of my life, so that addiction is carefully circumscribed and weirdly under control.

Sometimes I went out to monger, then decided half-way through that I needed to drink in order to monger. Sometimes I went out to drink, then decided half-way through that I needed to monger. Either way, mongering was the goal and drinking was a vehicle to get me there. What form the mongering took, was basically the flavor of the month, whichever type of mongering I was after at that time in my life.

I've run the gamut. I started with a brief experimentation in pay-for-companionship telephone calls, back in my 20s (yes, pathetic, those 900 numbers!). I soon moved on from that, to street walkers (that fist-pumping celebration I reported in my previous post), to my main flavor -- strip-clubbing with many many extras involved -- , to some call-girl experiences as the internet grew. I "learned to monger" in Toronto, although I had a few experiences before I moved there. In the early 1990s there was a club named Fantasia in the town of Richmond Hill, which is a fairly distant bedroom-community suburb. They functioned essentially as a brothel, and I loved it.

I still love the extras-heavy strip club experience. There is no other form of mongering that I know, where you can examine and interact with the merchandise before purchasing it, where you can slake your desires at a moment's notice instead of planning ahead and calling ahead for it, and where you can take it or leave it as your whims dictate. That seems to fulfill my needs more than any other form. But I haven't ever had anything like what Fantasia was, since it closed and I moved away. I hear the Mitchell Brothers O'Farrell place in San Francisco is a close parallel, though rumored to be quite expensive. I found Treasure's in Houston to be a weak approximation, not without ultimate effectiveness. There are also lingerie studios in Tampa that filled the bill, and I spent a lot of time and money visiting those after getting an evening started at a Tampa strip club.

But with each of these venues, something having to do with alcohol was involved. It's almost as though I CHOSE to drive my inhibitions away on purpose (funny thing to do; deliberately second-guessing yourself?) in ORDER that I'd be able to go monger. When I first realized I was "allowed" to monger without drinking (I still remember the night, the exact scene in my car; it would have been when I was roughly 34), that somehow took some of the thrill out of it. It became a sterile, pre-planned activity, this business of going to take care of bodily functions without being INVOLVED in it. The alcohol would get me "zoned in" to the whole experience, and would help me to take risks I otherwise probably wouldn't have. But it also made me puke, drive dangerously, and a host of other problems, as reported.

So the two go hand in glove, alcohol addiction and sex addiction, for me. And I don't really "know" if I'm addicted to mongering, since I've never had an alternative. Kind of like asking me if I'm addicted to the Earth's atmosphere, which I freely admit I've been obsessively using in one form or another nearly all my life. But I haven't ever had an alternative -- not even been scuba diving, much less floating in outer space -- and therefore I don't know if the alternative source would actually sustain and fulfill my needs. I'd like to think I COULD find an alternative source to fulfill my sexual needs. If not, if there is no alternative source out there in the non-monger world that can fulfill my sexual needs, then it isn't that I'm addicted to sex or to mongering itself, it's just that I'm born with a sex-drive running in over-drive. The problem THEN is merely how to handle the revving engine, and not drive up against some embankment because I steered poorly. The problem is NOT, how to stop wanting that much sex, or how to stop mongering that much. Just, reducing the damage while still speeding forward.

Either way, however, the alcohol is free to go. I want it out of my life. I don't want to go cold turkey, because I shy away from extreme measures of all sorts. I know lots of fundamentalists down here in the Bible belt who go to extreme measures, and then just as extremely abandon them. (The divorce seminars run by the Baptist church are jam-packed every Saturday evening, for example!) I can drink responsibly, say wine with dinner or scotch on the porch with cousins. And New Year's Eve, I enjoy getting "drunk" along with a girlfriend. I don't consider those episodes to be the same as my "binge" drinking, when I go (alone) to a mongering situation, plow my way through an entire fifth of Jack Daniels (or Jaegermeister, my new flavor of choice!), and then brain-addled I abandon all sense and get me a girlie. The two are different types of drinking. I want the LATTER out of my life while keeping the former.

By the way, finally, sorry for using the term "cuddle BBBBB" in my previous post. I hadn't meant to be denigrating toward women with it, since (and you can confirm this by rereading) it actually referred to ME. :) But I understand why it twigged the computer re-write automaton. Anyway, it's a "cuddle female doggie" (I'm sure you've figured it out), meaning I was the boy-toy with whom the girls would get safely close, rubbing their clothed bodies up against me, but then not dangerously close, with no nudity allowed. One girl in particular actually got naked with me, but wouldn't let me do the touching, and we would have these evenings where I'd hold her in her dorm-room bed. Which you'd think would be great, right, lying in bed with a hot naked girl? Except for the fact that I wanted to date / kiss / fuck her, but on any given occasion she already had her regular boyfriend (some other dude, who would eventually break up with her, and then I'd "be there" to "help her get over" the breakup, grr.). And I wasn't allowed to be naked. What a fucked up chickie. And I was dumb enough to go along with it! Anyway, that's what a "cuddle BBBBB" is. Look up more about it by Googling "Ladder Theory," you'll find a funny but insightful site about boy-girl relations, more geared toward the adolescent and young-adult crowd. They used to have forums there but I think the board is now defunct.

Civ2000, looking forward to hearing more from you if you've got more to report. Otherwise, BG is heading for radio silence.

Book Guy, great post. You've definitely thought deeply about your situation, which is good, to a point. IMO the ideal is to be self-aware AND to be very involved with real life. Travel, volunteer, play sports, see movies. I wonder if you're aware of the seduction community--there's a lot of BS out there, but it pays to understand the Game and the female psyche--at least it provides an alternative to mongering. It's okay to combine some of these, e.g. travel and mongering, which can expand your horizons. My definition of responsible mongering is when you get what you want without letting it take over your life. And I have been there, done that.

Your post was very interesting to me because I think I have the opposite problem: I rarely drink to excess and am uninterested in chemicals except for caffeine, but when it comes to sex (mongering, seducing, viewing porn or other voyeuristic activities) I'm definitely an addict. It's all about being in control. I know when I'm in that mode (porn mode, monger mode, voyeur mode, etc.) it's a deep deep groove that I rarely can drive out of. Hell, I'm no longer in the driver's seat, something else is.

However, there's been an interesting development--since I started taking antidepressants a few months ago, my compulsive behavior has gone way down. Oh, it's still there, but I almost have to provoke it. For example, I might drop into a strip club once every fortnight, when I feel like it--as opposed to before when I was going EVEN WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT.

I take Zoloft (generic name Sertraline). Some men have reported losing sex drive taking these medications, and while I'd say my drive is slightly reduced, it's definitely still intact. No E.Rection problems, but it can be difficult to climax unless I'm highly aroused.

Back to the point, suppressing my compulsions was an unexpected but happy side effect. I wonder, has anyone else experienced a benefit like this from antidepressants?

3rdI

Thanks for your comments, Third Eye. I'm thinking about maybe considering that I might look into wondering whether or not someone should perhaps investigate if I need anti-depressant pharmacological intervention, too. Interesting how it attacked your compulsions.

I am familiar with the "seduction community", though I have long since given up on the initial pipe-dream that it presented -- of actually GETTING the girl (one? many? just ONE at a TIME would probably be enough!) rather than merely being manipulated by them, perpetually. I read up, applied myself, but didn't find that this was the solution. I am glad to have learned about some things -- the idea that socially forward people "get more" from life, for example -- but I'm also very unhappy about the cynical way that I would have to view my relations with others (women I'm seducing; and, colleagues of any gender at work; and so forth) to the point that I would become rather more Machiavellian than I now feel comfortable with. But it's still a worthwhile direction to investigate.

I've recently done a few experiments about responsible drinking. For example, I bought a 200 mL of Jack Daniels, and a 200 mL of Jaegermeister, both at the same time. I brought them both into a club, drank 2/3 of the Jaeger while sharing some, gave away the remainder to a few dudes whom I had befriended in the sharing process, and carried the Jack back to my hotel with me for another day. In a previous version of me, I would have compulsively drunk all 400 mL in one go, probably over the course of no more than an hour. As I figure it, I probably only drank 150 mL maximum that night, instead. This is a positive change. I realize that "true" Alcoholics Anonymous people might suggest, that because I'm carrying the alcohol around with me, and basically being involved in the first stages of drinking, I therefore am actually failing to avoid drinking. But, as I said earlier, I kind of distrust the approach of total abstinence, because it is an extreme measure, almost as compulsive as my drinking was. The point is, as much to avoid over-drinking, as to avoid compulsion of any kind. Therefore, half-drinking is better than no drinking.

At least, it is in my own invented screwed up fantasy psychological self-counseling universe where my own program is ideal for me and the brilliant inventors over at AA can be hanged. :)

Anyway, it was a good feeling. We'll see how long I stay on my self-diagnosed, self-designed, self-administered bandwagon.

Meanwhile, I'm planning on heading out into the hinterland of America's most Wild West city this evening or some time soon. New Orleans is teeming with unattached lower-class males being paid high dollar in cash. Guess who comes along with THAT bargain? :)

[QUOTE=Book Guy]

Meanwhile, I'm planning on heading out into the hinterland of America's most Wild West city this evening or some time soon. New Orleans is teeming with unattached lower-class males being paid high dollar in cash. Guess who comes along with THAT bargain? :)[/QUOTE]

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=470981&postcount=87[/URL]

BBC:

Being in love is physically similar to the buzz of taking drugs and also has withdrawal symptoms, an expert on addiction has said.

Dr John Marsden says dopamine - the drug released by the brain when it is aroused - has similar effects on the body and mind as cocaine or speed.

"Attraction and lust really is like a drug. It leaves you wanting more," the National Addiction Centre head said.

[QUOTE=Robux]BBC:

Being in love is physically similar to the buzz of taking drugs and also has withdrawal symptoms, an expert on addiction has said.

Dr John Marsden says dopamine - the drug released by the brain when it is aroused - has similar effects on the body and mind as cocaine or speed.

"Attraction and lust really is like a drug. It leaves you wanting more," the National Addiction Centre head said.[/QUOTE]


National Addiction Centre Head [b](strike one)[/b]

Head of the National Addiction Centre [b](strike two)[/b]

Centre for the National Addiction to Head [b](home run!)[/b]




Benchseats Rock

If I have a addiction than it is cruising. As most you know I am fairly picky and sometimes go weeks or a whole month without picking a SW. The qty of good looking SW's has diminished greatly over the years. Back in the mid 80's or mid 90's one could almost be assured of finding a hot WSW in San Diego. These days finding a good looking WSW at a reasonable price is the exception rather than the rule. The action in SD and socal has become very erratic. Because of this it requires much more time to find a good WSW.

This is one reason why it's important to post news and get ph #'s. If I see a SW that interests me I always ask for ph# even if I don't have time to do her. I find myself cruising a lot more these days and finding no good action is a little depressing.

I have found that it's much better for me to seek sex for pleasure rather than for a sense of guilt or to escape unhappiness.

[QUOTE=Civ2000]Myself, I don't feel any guilt, nor has anyone tried to make me feel guilty for my addiction. I don't see guilt pervading this thread, except perhaps for a guy or two who is remorseful for cheating on his faithful spouse, in which case guilt is an appropriate emotion, assuming of course that the guy is not a sociopath.

Me, I simply see that the addiction has lowered my quality of life and thus I try to reduce or quit the hobby when I can. When successful, my finances immediately improve, I spend more time engaging in healthy life-affirming activities, get closer to friends and family, my work productivity increases, and am generally happier. As I've stated before, guilt is not part of the equation for me.[/QUOTE]I don't feel guilt either. The only thing I worry about is the temptation to overspend. Lately I've hit the AMPs as much as 3 or even 4 times a week which I can't afford to do on an ongoing basis. At up to $300 a visit this could run over $1000 a week, $52,000 a year. Over a 20 year mongering career one could literally spend over a million dollars. Invest that wisely and one could be a multimillionaire instead of an experienced monger. This "hobby" could ruin one financially just as a gambling habit could.

Just as I will gamble happily at moderate levels, I need to learn to limit my mongering to whatI can afford. Paying cash eliminates the temptation to use credit cards to the hilt on K-girls. On occasion I have used my credit card for other things to free up AMP money. I've stopped that lately. I go for the $140 or $160 FS rather than the $300 FS to save money. I even go HJ only sometimes which is a money saver.

I've gotten a lot of overtime money lately. I might spend all my OT money on AMP girls as it is extra money I don't need. But is it wise to do that? What do others do? Invest 50% or 5% of this OT windfall?

There are other ways to save that I am reluctant to utilize unless the point comes where I have to, such as retirement or when overtime dries up. I could save by patronizing a $20 SW rather than a CC Rider. I could limit my mongering to once a week or once a month or even to a vacation of once a year. What do others suggest?

The solution I really like is to win the lottery for a hundred million dollars which means I could indulge to an almost unlimited degree. (Really high rollers can spend an amount of money you or I could not believe.) Alternatively I could hustle extra money by a part time job or by cutting the fat in my non monger budget. How do others cope?

Double Nickle

[QUOTE=Third Eye]...when it comes to sex (mongering, seducing, viewing porn or other voyeuristic activities) I'm definitely an addict. It's all about being in control. I know when I'm in that mode (porn mode, monger mode, voyeur mode, etc.) it's a deep deep groove that I rarely can drive out of. Hell, I'm no longer in the driver's seat, something else is.

However, there's been an interesting development--since I started taking antidepressants a few months ago, my compulsive behavior has gone way down. Oh, it's still there, but I almost have to provoke it. For example, I might drop into a strip club once every fortnight, when I feel like it--as opposed to before when I was going EVEN WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT.

I take Zoloft (generic name Sertraline). Some men have reported losing sex drive taking these medications, and while I'd say my drive is slightly reduced, it's definitely still intact. No E.Rection problems, but it can be difficult to climax unless I'm highly aroused.

Back to the point, suppressing my compulsions was an unexpected but happy side effect. I wonder, has anyone else experienced a benefit like this from antidepressants?

3rdI[/QUOTE]I'm not a mental health professional, but I am aware of the reduction in obsessive behaviors that can occur with the use of anti-depressants. The Prozac class of drugs (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Lexapro and others) are serotonin reuptake inhibitors, serotonin being one of those neurotransmitters that that can make you feel good and change behavior if present in the right amount. Wellbutrin (not in the Prozac class) is another anti-depressant that works on two different neurotransmitters (dopamine and norepinephrine) that also can make you feel good if present in the right amount. However I'm not sure if Wellbutrin is effective for OCD.

I don't know if sexual addiction is a type of OCD, but I suspect it is, or is related, and recommend a google search on "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" to read up on OCD and related disorders. Then for others who want to see if Third Eye's experience can be repeated, it might be worth a trip to your doctor, a psychiatrist, or the public health clinic to get a prescription. A lot of these drugs are now available as generics so they can cost $4 or less a month at pharmacies like Walmart and those that are matching its prices.

Celexa and Lexapro are said to have the fewest side effects of the Prozac class of drugs and are among the newest drugs of this type. Wellbutrin is also said to have few side effects. Both Wellbutrin and Celexa are now available as inexpensive generics.

If there is a qualified mental health professional reading this report, please add to this report and correct anything I've said that is wrong.

The classic pill for OCD is Luvox, though Wellbutrin also hits many of the same receptors without the same side effects. This is not to say that Wellbutrin is without it's own side effects, and it is most often prescribed in tandem with other anti depressants - such as Zoloft or Paxil - but again, side effects are plenty. The newest addition to the bunch is Cymbalta - which hits epis and neurepis - and more of each than ever before, and the neat part of it is that there is no weight gain AT ALL as part and parcel of the standard list of complaints. The trick with combining anti depresants with Wellbutrin is that Wellbutrin does have a stimulus effect in most cases, but dosage is tricky as more than 300mg puts the patient at a significantly higher risk for seizures, so it is not uncommon to see low doses of Viagra or other pills in the class prescribed as well.

OCD can manifest sexually for certain, though more often it is my experience that sexual compulsion is far more common in patients presenting with Major Depression and ADD/ADHD - the treatment of which can produce OCD behaviours and tendencies not present before medication.

I cannot stress enough that pills in and of themselves do not constitute a complete therapeutic regimen, and of course, before taking any pill or changing a therapy regimen it is imperative to consult with your Internist and a Psychiatrist to ensure the appropriate choices are made.


Benchseats Rock

I've tried various SSRI antidepressants and they all work to curb compulsions, but they also tend to make it difficult to cum.

[QUOTE=Benchseats Rock]The classic pill for OCD is Luvox, though Wellbutrin also hits many of the same receptors without the same side effects. This is not to say that Wellbutrin is without it's own side effects, and it is most often prescribed in tandem with other anti depressants - such as Zoloft or Paxil - but again, side effects are plenty. The newest addition to the bunch is Cymbalta - which hits epis and neurepis - and more of each than ever before, and the neat part of it is that there is no weight gain AT ALL as part and parcel of the standard list of complaints. The trick with combining anti depresants with Wellbutrin is that Wellbutrin does have a stimulus effect in most cases, but dosage is tricky as more than 300mg puts the patient at a significantly higher risk for seizures, so it is not uncommon to see low doses of Viagra or other pills in the class prescribed as well.

OCD can manifest sexually for certain, though more often it is my experience that sexual compulsion is far more common in patients presenting with Major Depression and ADD/ADHD - the treatment of which can produce OCD behaviours and tendencies not present before medication.

I cannot stress enough that pills in and of themselves do not constitute a complete therapeutic regimen, and of course, before taking any pill or changing a therapy regimen it is imperative to consult with your Internist and a Psychiatrist to ensure the appropriate choices are made.

Benchseats Rock[/QUOTE]

Lately all I been banging is kgirls. They seem to be the only turn on for me. Heck even the unattractive ones get me hard. I'm late 40's and have had my share of white,black,& latina pussy. My question is, "Is there any truth to the term Asian Fever or Yellow Fever?"

Asian: I've been just the opposite, recently. I have un-Yellow Fever. :)

And another funny thing happened to me, just last night, in fact, that might have bearing on this general discussion. I scheduled myself loose from the various family and friends who are making demands on my time these holidays (told Mister A I was with Miss B, and vice versa!) and planned on mongering. I went after the clubs in the French Quarter, and Visions out on Downman Road (New Orleans), but I just couldn't get the ol' horn up. I haven't banged a chick in about three weeks but man I just ain't interested.

What'sup with that? I am starting to suspect, that regular socializing of the "normal" kind, in some way invades my mind and turns me into an upstanding and John-Birch type of citizen. Help! Now I'm wondering whether all my past mongering obsessions were just loneliness acting itself out in spurts and starts. What happens when I have to go back to the daily grind? I gotta fuck at AMPs more?

This isn't making sense. There I was, free pass in hand, standing outside the Hustler on Bourbon Street, peering through the doorway at plenty of scantily clad porn-starlet-types, and I didn't want to go inside. It just seemed ... seedy ... and, more important, it seemed DULL. I was BORED by sex.

Eeek. That CAN'T be a good development.

Does anyone know if there's a Sex Addiction centers in Orlando, Florida?

Please PM me

I used to be into porn, being a truck driver 24 hrs a day with my wife for ten years. We didn't get along very well, me focusing on bills and trying to get out of trucking but maintaining the same income, my wife couldn't comprhend maintaining a budget, I had very little sex life, and no friends. Then began going to stripclubs, thinking my marriage was over anyway; eventually I confided in my wife that I was going to stripclubs, and she could tell that I was infatuated with one dancer in particular. We argued fiercly over it. But I being adament that I can not make friends like most people (actually shunned by most people no matter how hard I try to fit in) and that this is all I have for finding normal conversation with people, she eventually accepted it; and I found that I really only needed friends; I am not even interested in most woman in the clubs even when fully nude; only a few of them and even then, more as friends than sexually. So the point I am trying to make is that there may be soemthing you are missing emotionally; I didn't even realize the things and issues I was hurting from in my life that swell up in my mind when I walk into a certain club near home, kind of like when I walked into a distant relatives home a few years ago for the first time in 20 years and was flooded with memories. For me a stripclub that was ran by people that remind me of where I was raised really healed me in ways I didn't know I was hurting the pain was buried so deep. So you may have deep rejection issues. Then I wound up obsessed with one dancer for about a year. Then quit going to that club for one month. Met a girl that looked similiar and it really helped me to "get over her".

A nice story, Mr. "Am I a criminal 2". (Funny nickname ...) I think a lot of us are lonely, looking for acceptance or for something that we have somehow lost but that we don't even know we lack.

Just like in [URL='http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=407066&postcount=236']2005[/URL] , I kept a diary on my mongering activities this year

Because I missed five straight weeks because of some surgery this summer , my 'year'
was only 47 weeks long

In that time , I spent $$ 6400 on 61 'Dates' with 22 different women — an average of
one date every 5.4 days

Most of my activities are now with ATFs or in Strip Clubs = why risk a Solicitation arrest
when in·door prostitution is totally legal here in Rhode Island ?? My last SW date was in mid·August

I saw seven of the women at least twice , and spent by far the most time and money
on my ATF·ATF girl [b]Jo·Elle[/b] , who I saw 31 times

My New Year's Resolution is to take a little break from the hobby and this web site

Wonder how long I'll be able to hold out ?? Addictions *are* hard to break , I realize

Any·wayz = [b]Happy New Years , Peeps !!![/b]

Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?

According to some articles I read, the average male thinks about sex every 5 minutes or so. Now that sounds like an addiction. But wait. Is there is a difference between thinking about sex and acting on your thoughts?

Who cares if there is a difference as long as no one is getting hurt. What normal male doesn't like looking at beautiful naked women acting out our fantasies right before our eyes? While most of us would rather have sex than watching it, who cares?

I personally believe that most people have some form of addictive behavior whether it's shopping, sex, alcohol, drugs, hobbies, workaholic, playing computer games or the like. Why beat yourself up over it?

There is a multitude of reasons why some men prefer dating SWs rather than find some nice regular girl for a relationship. My reasons are simple. I am tired of the dating game (head games, financial exploitation, hassles, and loss of independence and freedom).

Financially speaking, it's probably a toss up between mongering and dating regular girls. Either way, you are going to pay for sex. At least with mongering, you generally know what's going to happen, when and for how much.

It all depends on one's priorities and where you are in your stage of life.

Guess the point I am trying to make is don't beat yourself up over this so-called sex addiction thing if you are not hurting anyone and you enjoy this lifestyle.

Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior.

Like anything in life, try to keep it under control and not do it to excess (going into debt, negatively affecting the rest of your life, etc.).

BBB

Lets face it, if we patronize this board we are sick mother fuckers. LOL I really liked the 06' accounting of Zombies, that was right on. I had thought about my lifetime mongering expenses and quite frankly I wanted to puke.

I coulda bought a house in Vegas and a nice one too. That combined with other vices, maybe 2 houses. hehe

oh well, cant take it with you when you go so enjoy it while we are all breathing is what I say.

PC out

[QUOTE=Bad Bad Boy]Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?

According to some articles I read, the average male thinks about sex every 5 minutes or so. Now that sounds like an addiction. But wait. Is there is a difference between thinking about sex and acting on your thoughts?

Who cares if there is a difference as long as no one is getting hurt. What normal male doesn't like looking at beautiful naked women acting out our fantasies right before our eyes? While most of us would rather have sex than watching it, who cares?

I personally believe that most people have some form of addictive behavior whether it's shopping, sex, alcohol, drugs, hobbies, workaholic, playing computer games or the like. Why beat yourself up over it?

There is a multitude of reasons why some men prefer dating SWs rather than find some nice regular girl for a relationship. My reasons are simple. I am tired of the dating game (head games, financial exploitation, hassles, and loss of independence and freedom).

Financially speaking, it's probably a toss up between mongering and dating regular girls. Either way, you are going to pay for sex. At least with mongering, you generally know what's going to happen, when and for how much.

It all depends on one's priorities and where you are in your stage of life.

Guess the point I am trying to make is don't beat yourself up over this so-called sex addiction thing if you are not hurting anyone and you enjoy this lifestyle.

Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior.

Like anything in life, try to keep it under control and not do it to excess (going into debt, negatively affecting the rest of your life, etc.).

BBB[/QUOTE]

BBB, The thing is, you're not describing addiction. When you say to "try and keep it under control" you're missing the point that addiction is a "loss of control."

"Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior" -- sure it is. But a loose definition of addiction is continuing a behavior despite negative consequences. Liking sex is one thing, continuing to have sex despite arrest, heavy debt, disease, getting robbed, etc is another. Addiction does negatively affect the rest of your life; a normal sexual desire does not.

So yes, liking porn, strip clubs, mongering, etc., is great until you lose the ability to control it and then it is an extremely destructive force that can ruin your life and those who are close to you. The fact is, you are hurting someone - yourself and the people who care about you.

So, it's like I've described before. You go to a group of forty men (most of whom think of sex every few minutes) and ask them if they'd like to bang that hot blonde at the bar. Most will say yes. Then say there is a 50% chance she has an STD. You've now lost half the men, but the rest might bang her anyway with protection. Now you tell them there's a chance they could get arrested and their wife might find out. Ten more men drop out. Now mention they could get robbed by a pimp. Three more drop out. Then say, it could become addictive and you could end up heavily in debt. Five more drop out. Two guys are left, me and Psyberzombie. You've found the two sex addicts in the group.

[QUOTE=PsyberZombie]
In that time , I spent $$ 6400 on 61 'Dates' with 22 different women —on my ATF·ATF girl [b]Jo·Elle[/b] , who I saw 31 times

My New Year's Resolution is to take a little break from the hobby and this web site

Wonder how long I'll be able to hold out ?? Addictions *are* hard to break , I realize[/b][/QUOTE]


Just did the math myself and for 2006, I spent $5240 on a little over 30 mongering sessions.

By the way, good luck on the resolution (although I saw that you've been back already)

[QUOTE=Asain_Ucker]Lately all I been banging is kgirls. They seem to be the only turn on for me. Heck even the unattractive ones get me hard. I'm late 40's and have had my share of white,black,& latina pussy. My question is, "Is there any truth to the term Asian Fever or Yellow Fever?"[/QUOTE]How juvenile can you be? There's about as much truth to that as "once you go black, you never go back."

WK,

It's not that I dont like fucking white, latina, and black girls anymore. Heck I'd fuck them all, but what really is, is that if I had a choice. If they lined them up, I'd most probably pick the Korean girl.

All my life I was never attracted to any asian girl no matter how cute she was, until I tried one at a AMP years ago. If I'd go to the strip club and if it was the asian girl turn to dance, I'd go to bathroom or get a drink. I just didn't waste my time. Now it's almost the opposite. Maybe it's just me. A buddy mentioned to me about this asian fever stuff thats why I brought it up on the forum.

[QUOTE=Wkmotley]How juvenile can you be? There's about as much truth to that as "once you go black, you never go back."[/QUOTE]

"Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?"


No one ever accomplished anything by "beating oneself up." But one should be concerned if they have an addiction, and take action if it has negative affects on their health or other parts of their life.

How do you know if your addicted?? A good rule of thumb is that if you asking yourself that question, you probably are.

I don;t consider the study of human behavior a science. Addictions are more defined by society's mores and values than anything else.

But the most "scientific" method we use to determine addiction, there are 10 or 15 questions you need to answer, and if 5 or 6 have affirmitive answers, your considered addicted. Talk to a professional if you want the exact specifics.

You need to be concerned with an addiction because it may affect other more important parts of your life. For example, getting food and shelter are two basic needs that rate higher than the sex drive (having sex is third). If you spend too much on mongering and don't have enough to pay your mortgage or grocery bill, that's a problem. If you get your car impounded and can't get to work, lose your job, and can't earn money to pay your mortgage or for groceries, thats a problem. If your wife walks out on you and gets a big chunk of your paycheck and you can't pay your mortgage or grocery bills, that's a problem.

A friend of mine was fired from THREE jobs because of his addictive behavior when he went panning for gold on his placer mine claim. He would go on the week-ends, and would not return Monday for work. He just could not bring himself to leave, thinking the big nugget would be in the next spot he looked.

We also have other needs that are not considered as high as the sex drive..need for love, comfort, companionship, feeling good about ourselves, self-esteem, etc. The consequences of too much mongering can affect all of these...like getting arrested with name in the newspaper, no money for other things, divorce, accumulating debt, etc.

Some addicts are lucky or blessed and never have to deal with unpleasant consequences of their addiction...like the alcoholic CEO that never gets caught DUI nor ever has an accident. But addicts that do end up suffering from unpleasant consequences usually bsay "This is not how I wanted my life to be."
If your acutely aware of the consequences of addictive behavior and say "so what, this is how I chose to live my life", then so be it...but that's sort of a sociopath attitude...it means you don't play well with others.

We need pleasure, too. If all your time and resources are spent on an addictive pleasure, you'll be losing out of other pleasures...the trip to hawaii in January, the new car, new set of golf clubs, or whatever.

My addiction to coffee is a little bit of an inconvenience, but at least its affordable, legal, and acceptable.

Agreed on "this is why." The problem isn't the desire (aka "addiction" for some people), it's the RESULTS, or effects, or side-effects, or other problems it causes, or ... call it whatever. So, why? Because of the stories about people who "have to" drive the stroll over and over, despite losing their jobs or getting arrested; the stories about men who take a blow to their self-esteem every time they bone a stranger, and despite the fact that mister happy down below the belt gets his nut to bust so the little brain is satisfied, the BIG brain still isn't satisfied with the loneliness, the lack of self-affirmation, the sense of distance from humanity. Call it whatever, mongering is only a poor solution to a major problem for ALL of us here on this thread.

I have some kind of pipe dream in which, I'm a DESIRED man. I have a fair degree of power over the women whom I am interested in, precisely because I am as interesting to them as they are to me. There are ways to accomplish this pipe dream. One is to desire the women less; another is to BE desired by them more. I have "worked on" who I am, to the extent that I am starting to understand female desire more than I ever have before. It's not a problem that they want things from us that we don't necessarily want from them -- bank account, appearance of stability, capacity to bifurcate between total-biker-outlaw-James-Dean and family-man-Ward-Cleaver (wait, come to think of it, I might want Cyd-Charisse-versus-June-Cleaver, hmmm ...). What is a problem, is NOT being able to appear to them as something they want.

And then I start to wonder, is it really worth a whole lifetime, to apply myself to this massive problem, called "women"? If only they were just ... GROWN UP ... about sexuality, maybe we wouldn't HAVE TO monger, right? But nooo, they control us because we're born with a sexual need that they deliberately, cruelly manipulate.

So, why do I dislike mongering? Why do I feel like the "addiction" matters? Because it destroys my sense of self and makes me feel manipulated, makes me feel like the victim of cruel jokes and punishments.

And yet, in the long run, I'm not really a true misogynist. I don't "hate" human females (any more than I hate, for example, cats, even though I'm a dog person). I just recognize them for rather limited creatures, in this particular context. They have all sorts of other great things to offer.

Humph. Sometimes I consider taking salt-peter (the drug reduces your sex drive, I've heard; they put it in the food at boys' British public schools to prevent them from masturbating back in the Victorian era). Viagra would be the LAST pill I'd ever want to pass my mouth -- why INCREASE the disjunction between how much you want it and can have it, on the one hand; and how much you actually get, on the other?

Ah, the New Year dawns. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose ...

I guess I just feel like I "need" to look it up and remind myself, but my accounts have just told me I'm spending more than $1000 a month on mongering. That includes such things as plane flights to Houston, associated hotel bills, etc.

Amazing where all that dough is going. Now ask my "why beat up yourself?"!

:(

What bothers me is that it is so overpriced due to our Civil Rights being violated as we are being outlawed for having basic bodily functions. I can not find one Civil Rights Group fighting to legalize prostituion specifically (Libertarian Party goes after too many wide agendas, I mean one focased solely on Prostitution, or hell if one would even specifaclly fight for Stripclub rights it would be a start). You can even neuter a dog and it still gets horny, so sexual body functions are just as uncontrollable as any other bodily function. When you gotta go you gotta go. What ever happened to Seperation of Church and State?

And that Asian thing? Yah. I am the same way when an Asian is on stage. I 'll generally excuse myself. But mostly because I only find 2 or three girls that I enjoy spending time with. Mostly the conversation. But once in a while I get lucky.