Law Enforcement in California (Providers Read)

May I suggest you redirect your home mail to a PO boX ASAP! Or a stop delivery notice, which you can file at the appropriate post office. This may buy you a little time. Don't delay!

Baggens.

[QUOTE=Defense Lawyer; 1180606]Hey JP, what a major bummer.

Much of what I'd tell you to do depends on questions I'd have for you through PM, so feel free to send me a PM where you can give me details, such as where this happened, what court you're going to, and some other things.

But, for now, here's a few thoughts.

First of all, you will probably not be charged with prostitution (647 (be) , but rather with lewd conduct (647 (a). You may also be charged with loitering with the intent to do an act of prostitution (653. 22). The prostitution related charges are more difficult, because it's hard to lie to a significant other about the nature of the charges (you can always claim the cops are lying, but that's going to be more problematic as she may not want to take your word for it and may want to trek down to the courthouse and find out for herself what happened.

The bigger question is about keeping this secret from her, and I'm thinking you may have some problems there. There are a subgroup of lawyers in my profession (criminal defense lawyers) who go to the jails every week and pick up a list of arrestees for the week, getting their addresses and sending them a flurry of solicitation letters (they're not technically solicitations, as lawyers are allowed to solicit in that manner). But they are sort of informational letters where they explain that they're lawyers and can handle those type of cases.

Your problem is that these letters are going to start flooding your home like there's no tomorrow. You may get a good 20 of them over the next week. Which will really suck. Unless you have a different (ie. Work) address on your driver's license, the mail's about to hit your home. How you want to spin that is anyone's guess, my best advice is to be there for the mail every day for the next couple of weeks and don't let her get to the mail.

Depending on where this happened, there are very likely very good public defenders in court who can handle your case well. If you have no record, there is probably little danger in setting your case for trial and playing a game of chicken with the the to try and get them to reduce your charge to something that doesn't say "sex" in it. Something like trespassing or disturbing the peace.

The reason I asked where this happened and what court your going to is that will likely make a huge difference in deciding how you play that game of chicken and the disposition of the prosecution and court there. In most cases, they do not ask for jail on a first offense, it's usually 5 days of community service / cal trans work, or about $500 in fines, and an AIDS prevention class and things of the like.

I don't think that you need to get a private lawyer if money is a strong consideration, but we can talk more about that.

Send me a PM and I'll see info I can try and get you.

Good luck, and I'm really sorry about this. [/QUOTE]

Hiring a lawyer has several advantages. By hiring a attorney you are showing the prosecutor that you are serious about the case and not going to roll over. You can also have your attorney notify or petition the court to have all your court related mail to him. If you go with a public defender you have to wait until the arraignment see the public defender. The other problem is that unless you plead not guilty the PD is your counsel. If you decide get a PO box. Just remember that there is one week delay when you start and stop the mail.

The the may decide to ask for:

([url]http://www.bayareaduidefense.com/dmv_hearing/california_vehicle_codes/california_vc13201_5.html[/url])

California Vehicle Code Section 13201. 5. Driving Privilege Suspension: Prostitution.

"13201. 5. (a) A court may suspend, for not more than 30 days, the privilege of any person to operate a motor vehicle upon conviction of subdivision (be) of Section 647 of the Penal Code where the violation was committed within 1, 000 feet of a private residence and with the use of a vehicle.

(be) A court may suspend, for not more than 30 days, the privilege of any person to operate a motor vehicle upon conviction of subdivision (a) of Section 647 of the Penal Code, where a peace officer witnesses the violator pick up a person who is engaging in loitering with the intent to commit prostitution, as described in Section 653. 22 of the Penal Code, and the violator subsequently engages with that person in a lewd act within 1, 000 feet of a private residence and with the use of a vehicle."

This is another reason to hire a lawyer.

[QUOTE=Dildo Baggens; 1180813]May I suggest you redirect your home mail to a PO boX ASAP! Or a stop delivery notice, which you can file at the appropriate post office. This may buy you a little time. Don't delay!

Baggens. [/QUOTE]I got an attorney for $600, he plead it down to "disturbing the peace", paid a $500 fine. Told my SO that I was giving a girl a ride and got mistakenly busted!

[QUOTE=Jp1575; 1180464]I got busted today. Was banging a SW in an alley and out of nowhere, LE appears. Was caught with my pants down, so to speak. So I have the summons to appear in court. I don't have the $$$ to afford a lawyer to fight this, and my biggest worry is the people at my home (figure it out) finding out. So anyone with advice on what's going to happen or what I should do. Let me know asap. Court date is in a month and I need to know what to do.

Thanks[/QUOTE]Sucks, I feel your pain. That is why I haven't cardated in over 16 years, and haven't been busted either. Its not worth the risk, if she doesn't know of a notel, or you don't let it go, another day will come. With the desperation and sneakiness of LE it just isn't worth it IMHO.

SoCal, I've read a lot of your posts and respect many of your thoughts, but some of what you're saying here is urban, or shall we say, monger myths.

647 (a) is not a registrable offense, if you are convicted, you do not have to register as a sex offender (unless it was committed with someone under 18, and then it's possible, but still unlikely unless they were under 16).

I asked him where this took place in part to help determine how good a hands he was in with the public defender in that location. Having practiced all over the Los Angeles area for a long time, and knowing many of the the different public defender offices, I can say that there are many VERY GOOD public defenders in much of LA County. The only pressure they are under to settle cases is that they hate taking dogs to trial and getting pounded. Taking a good case to trial is something that gets most of them very excited.

Furthermore, give a public defender a "regular citizen," meaning someone who's not been in the system for a long time, someone with a job and a life much like them, and many will sink their teeth into the case to get a really good settlement in ways they may not otherwise do. While they may be resigned to seeing some people revolve through the system over and over again, and plead those out without a second thought, give them a virgin to the system (pun unintended!) , and you'll find some who will do some major work to keep from being that person's lawyer for their 1st conviction. At least to the charges alleged.

Even if convicted of 647 (a) , a first offender would be placed on summary probation with, in all probability, no jail. Whether the charge is pled down to something else like disturbing the peace or not, summary probation is going to be one of the conditions of such a plea.

Now, I will say SoCal is absolutely correct in saying that the disadvantage to getting a PD is that you have to wait until arraignment before you get an attorney and can address the case. If you have a private lawyer, you can possibly contact the prosecutor before the case is filed and prevent a filing, perhaps by going to some bullshit sex or john classes where you are indoctrinated on how terrible women on the street are treated (that part's not bullshit) , and perhaps a donation to some anti-prostitution organization. In other words, a private lawyer can do things before a case is filed that are much harder to do once the case gets filed and takes on a life of its own.

Finally, having correspondence sent to your lawyer is fine enough, but what I was talking about was not mail from the Court to you, but mail from lawyers to you "soliciting" business, based on the address on your booking sheet, which is likely your home address based on your driver's license. Nothing is probably going to stop that flood, which may have already begun for you.

If you have the money (probably a couple of grand) , getting a good lawyer is worth it. But getting a bad lawyer can be worse than a good one. Back when I was a public defender I got many cases from lawyers who did such a bad job on the case before they dumped it back on me (frequently after taking $10k or more from the client) that they materially harmed the case, sometimes causing a conviction down the road by their actions. It is very hard to figure out who is a good lawyer (even for people like me, for whom much of my knowledge is based on reputation from other lawyers that I trust, but not based on personal knowledge). So I would seriously advise caution before going out and getting ANY lawyer, figuring that has to be better than a public defender, because frequently it is not.

My 2 cents after doing this exact stuff for nearly 20 years (not mongering, but lawyering).

[QUOTE=SoCalMonger; 1180621]Sorry to hear this.

I would talk to a lawyer who specializes in these types of cases. See if you work out a payment plan. If this is your first offense you might want to consider accepting a plea agreement. Your other option is to get a public defender and fight the case. Just remember that the public defenders are under a lot of pressure to plea out cases. I would probably go for a plea deal since the the will try and get you on lewd conduct in a public place if you plead not guilty. You will have to register as a sex offender. Chances are the the will drop the charge and give you 3 years summary probation with no jail time. [/QUOTE]

SoCalMonger is a joke. I would never, ever take advice from him. Better off taking the advice of UC Vice posing as a regular member.

Misfit

I have never said that 647b is a registerable sex offense.

[QUOTE=SoCalMonger;1185550]I have never said that 647b is a registerable sex offense.[/QUOTE]You said Lewd conduct was, it is not a registerable offense either.

One way to avoid getting busted in a sting is to offer the girl a ride if you uncertain if she is cop. If someone is simply offering a girl a ride then this is a defensible argument in court. There is case law that supports this.

The FAQ has good tips. But the best tip is do not discuss anything while she / both of you are outside the vehicle. Police as a rule of thumb do not enter the vehicle unless doing drug stings and then only in major cases.

Not a rule but usually correct. Her room if you do not know her can be a sting. Again if she won't take a ride don't talk about sex and play dumb or lost. Line up your spot before not after. Have a room ready ir be ready to pay yourself I hate her room style I know of cars being stolen or more.

Do a safety check of your vehicle before you cruise to avoid mechanical pull overs. Do not cruise more than a couple times in a day to avoid being known. Never stop on main drags if possible. Try to stop at a place and pull over check your tires near her then offer her a ride. Carry a tire gusts it looks better.

Carry 2a wallets 1 real the other a drop wallet she sees and stuff it with fake cards and maybe monopoly money or a bunch of ones only with the amount you will pay no more. If robbed give it up. Use a cheap way h not a good one. There are many more things like not rubbernecking or sudden lane changes.

If you see a prosper and are wrong lane or position go and drive respectfully no sudden stops or changes then go back. Better to miss one then draw attention to yourself.

If possible cruise alleys near as well as side streets looking for hidden LE. Some LE have lots where they keep vehicles by day before stings. If possible learn where these lots are and get a look at them before cruising. It seems alot but treat this as a chess game and you may be a pawn lost or a King protected. But reconstruction can save you trouble. I have at times went to a local store known frequented by ladies and bought a burger or meal nearby (receipt in hand) then sat there and ate highly visible but eying preosective candy and sometime eating my candy also.

Now play chess and be safe people.

Warning. !!

LE has been stepping up enforcement in Socal in the past week or so. There has been reports of increased LE presence SD, LA, OC and Pomona areas. I cruising in National City and 3 Patrol cars on Main st there. This is fairly unusual for this area. Much of this is probably due to the recent "Operation Cross Country" human trafficking operation. So everyone should use due caution. !

This is a great thread. People need to understand the law. The only way for the PEOPLE to get back power from the cops and prosecutors is through the process of JURY NULLIFICATION.

The final and most important decision making body is a Jury of your peers. However since most people don't understand how to be a Juror, they simply listen to the bullshit from the district attorney and the judge, get pushed around and by default they return a guilty verdict.

A jury has the right to judge the validity of the law as well as whether or not the Defendant is guilty of breaking the law. In other words, the Jury can vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the evidence or even regardless of whatever law is in the Statutes. The is the RIGHT of any jury. Get the word out, if given the chance, go ahead and serve on a jury. Keep your mouth SHUT about what you feel regarding the so called illegality of prostitution, get on the jury, and vote NOT GUILTY if its a prostitution or drug case. The damn cops have too much power, but a jury has the final word, REGARDLESS of these old fashioned bullshit laws that are still on the books after many centuries.

Try your best to get on the jury and do this. Doing so will result in a Hung Jury, and the cops will have to either do the whole trial again at great inconvenience, or DISMISS the charges.

In other words, I as a monger will watch your back. If you as a monger or provider is facing criminal charges, I will sit in the jury box, keep my mouth SHUT, and at the end of the trial i will vote NOT GUILTY no matter how tough the asshole judges or prosecutors talk and bully the American citizen around, I will say Not Guilty.

JURY NULLIFICATION is the most important thing in the world right now.

Please read up on it. Watch some youtube videos on it. And DO IT. Get the word out too.

Thanks folks.

[QUOTE=SlappySalami;3371103]This is a great thread. People need to understand the law. The only way for the PEOPLE to get back power from the cops and prosecutors is through the process of JURY NULLIFICATION.

The final and most important decision making body is a Jury of your peers. However since most people don't understand how to be a Juror, they simply listen to the bullshit from the district attorney and the judge, get pushed around and by default they return a guilty verdict.

A jury has the right to judge the validity of the law as well as whether or not the Defendant is guilty of breaking the law. In other words, the Jury can vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the evidence or even regardless of whatever law is in the Statutes. The is the RIGHT of any jury. Get the word out, if given the chance, go ahead and serve on a jury. Keep your mouth SHUT about what you feel regarding the so called illegality of prostitution, get on the jury, and vote NOT GUILTY if its a prostitution or drug case. The damn cops have too much power, but a jury has the final word, REGARDLESS of these old fashioned bullshit laws that are still on the books after many centuries.

Try your best to get on the jury and do this. Doing so will result in a Hung Jury, and the cops will have to either do the whole trial again at great inconvenience, or DISMISS the charges.

In other words, I as a monger will watch your back. If you as a monger or provider is facing criminal charges, I will sit in the jury box, keep my mouth SHUT, and at the end of the trial i will vote NOT GUILTY no matter how tough the asshole judges or prosecutors talk and bully the American citizen around, I will say Not Guilty.

JURY NULLIFICATION is the most important thing in the world right now.

Please read up on it. Watch some youtube videos on it. And DO IT. Get the word out too.

Thanks folks.[/QUOTE]Great idea. I second this!

[QUOTE=SlappySalami;3371103]This is a great thread. People need to understand the law. The only way for the PEOPLE to get back power from the cops and prosecutors is through the process of JURY NULLIFICATION.

The final and most important decision making body is a Jury of your peers. However since most people don't understand how to be a Juror, they simply listen to the bullshit from the district attorney and the judge, get pushed around and by default they return a guilty verdict.

A jury has the right to judge the validity of the law as well as whether or not the Defendant is guilty of breaking the law. In other words, the Jury can vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the evidence or even regardless of whatever law is in the Statutes. The is the RIGHT of any jury. Get the word out, if given the chance, go ahead and serve on a jury. Keep your mouth SHUT about what you feel regarding the so called illegality of prostitution, get on the jury, and vote NOT GUILTY if its a prostitution or drug case. The damn cops have too much power, but a jury has the final word, REGARDLESS of these old fashioned bullshit laws that are still on the books after many centuries.

Try your best to get on the jury and do this. Doing so will result in a Hung Jury, and the cops will have to either do the whole trial again at great inconvenience, or DISMISS the charges.

In other words, I as a monger will watch your back. If you as a monger or provider is facing criminal charges, I will sit in the jury box, keep my mouth SHUT, and at the end of the trial i will vote NOT GUILTY no matter how tough the asshole judges or prosecutors talk and bully the American citizen around, I will say Not Guilty.

JURY NULLIFICATION is the most important thing in the world right now.

Please read up on it. Watch some youtube videos on it. And DO IT. Get the word out too.

Thanks folks.[/QUOTE]Power, BACK, to the people!

I'm in!

[QUOTE=SlappySalami;3371103]This is a great thread. People need to understand the law. The only way for the PEOPLE to get back power from the cops and prosecutors is through the process of JURY NULLIFICATION.

The final and most important decision making body is a Jury of your peers. However since most people don't understand how to be a Juror, they simply listen to the bullshit from the district attorney and the judge, get pushed around and by default they return a guilty verdict.

A jury has the right to judge the validity of the law as well as whether or not the Defendant is guilty of breaking the law. In other words, the Jury can vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the evidence or even regardless of whatever law is in the Statutes. The is the RIGHT of any jury. Get the word out, if given the chance, go ahead and serve on a jury. Keep your mouth SHUT about what you feel regarding the so called illegality of prostitution, get on the jury, and vote NOT GUILTY if its a prostitution or drug case. The damn cops have too much power, but a jury has the final word, REGARDLESS of these old fashioned bullshit laws that are still on the books after many centuries.

Try your best to get on the jury and do this. Doing so will result in a Hung Jury, and the cops will have to either do the whole trial again at great inconvenience, or DISMISS the charges.

In other words, I as a monger will watch your back. If you as a monger or provider is facing criminal charges, I will sit in the jury box, keep my mouth SHUT, and at the end of the trial i will vote NOT GUILTY no matter how tough the asshole judges or prosecutors talk and bully the American citizen around, I will say Not Guilty.

JURY NULLIFICATION is the most important thing in the world right now.

Please read up on it. Watch some youtube videos on it. And DO IT. Get the word out too.

Thanks folks.[/QUOTE]As a veteran monger I certainly detest prostitution laws between consenting parties and did long before I had any notion that I might one day engage in P4 P, BUT FOR THE RECORD as they say in open court, I do not agree that there is a RIGHT to jury nullification, but juries certainly have the POWER to in effect nullify a prosecution that is otherwise valid under the law and the facts of the case. RIGHT v. POWER seems like a technicality but they are 2 different things. If jurors had such a right they wouldn't have to keep their mouths shut about what they are doing through the process as Slappy Salami wisely advises they do.

Jurors take an oath, and open nullification is contrary to that oath. Plus if a juror is questioned in jury selection by a prosecutor or judge as to opinions about prosecuting crimes of prostitution and the prospective juror lies that he will uphold the law if the facts of the case make out a crime, the juror could potentially be found in contempt of court or charged with perjury. Obviously if he tells the truth he will be lawfully excused from the jury so he has no RIGHT (though I realize the nullification fanatics will argue that he has the right but it is being stomped on by the Court). So great if you can keep your mouth shut but you may be placed in a position before you sit on a jury where you will be required to truthfully disclose your attitudes. Similar to jurors who oppose the death penalty not being permitted to sit on juries in capital homicide cases.

But as a practical matter, why don't we hear about cases like this applicable to prostitution cases, at least locally in SoCal? Well, its because it is way beyond rare that a prostitution misdemeanor (for the mongers and hookers who don't have a long rap sheet of priors) will ever be tried by a jury. 99.999% of "monger" cases will either be dismissed because the system is too congested to deal with them, or result in plea bargains to a lesser charge. And there aren't many lesser criminal offenses than a simple charge tossed at a monger for solicitation unless the hooker turns out to be underage. No defense lawyer worth a damn will advise a knowingly guilty monger client to place his fate in the hands of a jury based on having confidence that one of the jurors will hang the jury when his client can walk away with a small fine for a lesser offense and even expunge the misdemeanor from his record at a later date.