General Reports

[QUOTE=YourCCPimp;7122431]That's an interesting point about the prices. A lot of females who considered sex work but were worried about the legal aspect no longer have a reason to sit on the sidelines. At the same time, as you said, the demand side is heavily discouraged. Sex workers could get desperate.[/QUOTE]For sure guys. I've been thinking about what's going to happen with the market for 6 months now, and I can't come to a consensus. On one hand, where else would a provider want to work, but in a jurisdiction where she can't be charged? I think this also holds true for the traveling providers. On the other hand, if there's not much of a market, will they go elsewhere? Only time will tell.

IMO, there's a hell of an opportunity for really smart providers. The ones who understand they can no longer be charged could make it much, much easier for mongers who now have greater risk. For instance, imagine if some come along and state "I won't store your #" or "Watch me double delete you in my phone" when you go to see her? I also think about the possibility of providers setting up their incalls in spots just over the state line, in small towns that wouldn't have been on the radar before. We'll see how the smart ones evolve.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7122462]For sure guys. I've been thinking about what's going to happen with the market for 6 months now, and I can't come to a consensus. On one hand, where else would a provider want to work, but in a jurisdiction where she can't be charged? I think this also holds true for the traveling providers. On the other hand, if there's not much of a market, will they go elsewhere? Only time will tell.

IMO, there's a hell of an opportunity for really smart providers. The ones who understand they can no longer be charged could make it much, much easier for mongers who now have greater risk. For instance, imagine if some come along and state "I won't store your #" or "Watch me double delete you in my phone" when you go to see her? I also think about the possibility of providers setting up their incalls in spots just over the state line, in small towns that wouldn't have been on the radar before. We'll see how the smart ones evolve.[/QUOTE]I'm kinda worried about traveling providers, ngl. If as you say the hotel staff is being trained to report 'prostitution', I think about how much incentive they have to report it. Would the lower end extended stay staff report it? Would the higher end marriott / hilton staff report it? I saw a traveling provider a couple months ago, really beautiful, upscale, stayed in a very classy hotel in north hills. I wonder if she knows about the law, and if so, would she skip NC the next time round? There was another traveling provider I saw earlier in the year, she already is reluctant to come back but for a different reason. She didn't get enough inquiries here. I wonder if she'll skip NC as well altogether.

Would the hotel staff there have incentive to report it? Would they lose business from escorts? How much business would it even be? Even if there are funds being provided to hotels for training, in the end, it's the prerogative of the staff who recognizes the activity as to whether to report it or not. Hotels and corporations in general don't give a shit about morality, only profits. Do you think some hotel exec is going to host a meeting and ask the question of if it's worth it for them to report such activity to the govt? (Genuine question).

On the other hand, we have some providers based here in NC who travel out of the state sometimes. If demand goes down, would they be incentivized to travel more often? Touring can be expensive, so maybe they raise their prices because there aren't enough local mongers? That might make it tougher for people who see providers in the Tryst / Eros tier, who generally have their own apartment.

Another thing is that we don't know the numbers. Do we know an estimate of how many mongers there are in the county, in the state? How many escorts there are? It's a complete grey area. Hotels are notorious for infidelity too. What if a cheating couple steps in the hotel and the staff reports it. If they (govt) can't prove it, it's egg on their face. Would they still think it's worth prosecuting people for this morality law? How much sway do these family council groups have on enforcement?

There's a shit ton of questions that I don't have the answer to, but this is very unfamiliar territory.

[QUOTE=Tawayem;7122488]I'm kinda worried about traveling providers, ngl. If as you say the hotel staff is being trained to report 'prostitution', I think about how much incentive they have to report it. Would the lower end extended stay staff report it? Would the higher end marriott / hilton staff report it? I saw a traveling provider a couple months ago, really beautiful, upscale, stayed in a very classy hotel in north hills. I wonder if she knows about the law, and if so, would she skip NC the next time round? There was another traveling provider I saw earlier in the year, she already is reluctant to come back but for a different reason. She didn't get enough inquiries here. I wonder if she'll skip NC as well altogether.

Would the hotel staff there have incentive to report it? Would they lose business from escorts? How much business would it even be? Even if there are funds being provided to hotels for training, in the end, it's the prerogative of the staff who recognizes the activity as to whether to report it or not. Hotels and corporations in general don't give a shit about morality, only profits. Do you think some hotel exec is going to host a meeting and ask the question of if it's worth it for them to report such activity to the govt? (Genuine question).

On the other hand, we have some providers based here in NC who travel out of the state sometimes. If demand goes down, would they be incentivized to travel more often? Touring can be expensive, so maybe they raise their prices because there aren't enough local mongers? That might make it tougher for people who see providers in the Tryst / Eros tier, who generally have their own apartment.

Another thing is that we don't know the numbers. Do we know an estimate of how many mongers there are in the county, in the state? How many escorts there are? It's a complete grey area. Hotels are notorious for infidelity too. What if a cheating couple steps in the hotel and the staff reports it. If they (govt) can't prove it, it's egg on their face. Would they still think it's worth prosecuting people for this morality law? How much sway do these family council groups have on enforcement?

There's a shit ton of questions that I don't have the answer to, but this is very unfamiliar territory.[/QUOTE]All great questions. I don't think we really know many of the answers yet.

My understanding from listening to some people in the know from the period where the Bill was being peddled on the Capitol, was that the intent was to hit the hotels that we all know that routinely harbor providers. A cop car could sit in the parking lot and just wait for the junkie, repeat offender girls to come out. Remember the cop can now say to her "I won't hassle you about drugs and I can't bust you for prostitution so just admit you're working, no harm no foul". He can walk her right into the motel lobby. Cha-ching $2,000 fine. Some of those motels could collect 5 of those fines per day. If you do the math and realize those places are charging the girl like $50, that place won't be in business for long. That's really one of the purposes of that part of the law, to clean up the eye sore motels. That part is fine with me. It'd be nice if the providers stayed in a place where you didn't feel like you were going to get stabbed. But, of course the next problem is that all of the places like Courtyard, Fairfield etc will have well trained staff. My concern really is you're so visible on camera going down those hallways to a room. If you imagine you're the 4th guy to do it in 3 hours, will you be able to relax in the room and not worry about the cops knocking at the door? Obviously that staff that's just been to HT training, will be looking for that. I think I'll be waiting for a bit to see how it all shakes out, if at all.

Good discussion here. I check the local news every day for the first poor schmuck to get hit with this. Maybe they'll wait until after the holidays. But I feel bad for people that are not as well-informed as we are here and are going to have their lives completely wrecked over an hour of happy.

[QUOTE=ThePolarVortex;7123049]Good discussion here. I check the local news every day for the first poor schmuck to get hit with this. Maybe they'll wait until after the holidays. But I feel bad for people that are not as well-informed as we are here and are going to have their lives completely wrecked over an hour of happy.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately it won't just be one schmuck. The first time we hear about this will be a major haul. It wouldn't even surprise me if they lay low for a little bit to lull everyone to sleep and think the coast is clear. Whatever and whenever it happens, a lot of people will go down to send a message.

[QUOTE=ScottiePimp;7123139]Unfortunately it won't just be one schmuck. The first time we hear about this will be a major haul. It wouldn't even surprise me if they lay low for a little bit to lull everyone to sleep and think the coast is clear. Whatever and whenever it happens, a lot of people will go down to send a message.[/QUOTE]One of the very weird things is that the first two teams plus Invictus were banging away on stings for the last two weeks under the old law. Now the third HSI team is here. We haven't seen anything since, although the press releases tend to go out a week afterward, so maybe they're in the middle of one this weekend, or maybe they're in the middle of training. I would also imagine they're probably surveilling the massage parlors right away. Those are huge charges now for the madams. One thing's for sure, they didn't come down here for nothing.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7123296]One of the very weird things is that the first two teams plus Invictus were banging away on stings for the last two weeks under the old law. Now the third HSI team is here. We haven't seen anything since, although the press releases tend to go out a week afterward, so maybe they're in the middle of one this weekend, or maybe they're in the middle of training. I would also imagine they're probably surveilling the massage parlors right away. Those are huge charges now for the madams. One thing's for sure, they didn't come down here for nothing.[/QUOTE]I have been following the posts regarding this new law and I have a few questions specifically around how this law will affect the AMPs. I always strike up a conversation with the provider regarding their nationality and background because I am genuinely interested. Most providers that I have chatted with travel back and forth to Korea on a somewhat regular / yearly basis to visit friends, parents, etc. So then I ask about their immigration status, and most have green cards. So one of my initial questions to this group is. How is this a Human Trafficking issue if they are in the US legally and they are working a job doing what they willing want to do?

My second thought is, if a customer were getting a massage, in a licensed establishment, by a person allowed to be in the US and working voluntarily, unless the police kick down the door at the correct time, how will the police know if there is a crime? And a follow up question is, what would be the motivation of a provider with a green card to tell the police anything after the fact?

So ultimately, what or how would a sting happen at an AMP?

[QUOTE=Fharmonic;7123705]I have been following the posts regarding this new law and I have a few questions specifically around how this law will affect the AMPs. I always strike up a conversation with the provider regarding their nationality and background because I am genuinely interested. Most providers that I have chatted with travel back and forth to Korea on a somewhat regular / yearly basis to visit friends, parents, etc. So then I ask about their immigration status, and most have green cards. So one of my initial questions to this group is. How is this a Human Trafficking issue if they are in the US legally and they are working a job doing what they willing want to do?

My second thought is, if a customer were getting a massage, in a licensed establishment, by a person allowed to be in the US and working voluntarily, unless the police kick down the door at the correct time, how will the police know if there is a crime? And a follow up question is, what would be the motivation of a provider with a green card to tell the police anything after the fact?

So ultimately, what or how would a sting happen at an AMP?[/QUOTE]I can't speak to your specific questions. However, I'll give my opinion. This new law is not actually about stopping human trafficking. I mean, do they want it to stop? Probably. Do they think for a second that this new law is going to minimize it? Not a chance. This is just the moral police trying to stop prostitution. If anyone is degenerate enough to participate in trafficking, they won't even bat an eye at this new law. Just understand this is all for show and the fact of if trafficking is actually happening or not is secondary.

[QUOTE=ScottiePimp;7123747]I can't speak to your specific questions. However, I'll give my opinion. This new law is not actually about stopping human trafficking. I mean, do they want it to stop? Probably. Do they think for a second that this new law is going to minimize it? Not a chance. This is just the moral police trying to stop prostitution. If anyone is degenerate enough to participate in trafficking, they won't even bat an eye at this new law. Just understand this is all for show and the fact of if trafficking is actually happening or not is secondary.[/QUOTE]I agree. Whether trafficking is at all involved or possibly involved is irrelevant. The multi-month prison term for intent to solicit is all that matters.

[QUOTE=Fharmonic;7123705]I have been following the posts regarding this new law and I have a few questions specifically around how this law will affect the AMPs. I always strike up a conversation with the provider regarding their nationality and background because I am genuinely interested. Most providers that I have chatted with travel back and forth to Korea on a somewhat regular / yearly basis to visit friends, parents, etc. So then I ask about their immigration status, and most have green cards. So one of my initial questions to this group is. How is this a Human Trafficking issue if they are in the US legally and they are working a job doing what they willing want to do?

My second thought is, if a customer were getting a massage, in a licensed establishment, by a person allowed to be in the US and working voluntarily, unless the police kick down the door at the correct time, how will the police know if there is a crime? And a follow up question is, what would be the motivation of a provider with a green card to tell the police anything after the fact?

So ultimately, what or how would a sting happen at an AMP?[/QUOTE]I don't have all the correct answers but this is my experience. Back in the day around here a lot of AMPs were around at least 20 compared to today. So here we are today once in a while an owner will have a massage license but it's rare, most none of the workers have massage license. Most all owners provide apartments for the workers and transportation because it can take a long time for the girls to get a drivers license and a car. I can tell you 98% of all the girls are good with the situation compared to what they left in China or Korea and if not they can go home anytime they won't to. If you can get a space leased you don't need a massage license to open a store you are required to have a license to massage. So the Massage Board used this law to shut down the stores. Now they claimed there was human trafficking happening but there was no real proof. Yes some girls slept in the store and had to pay the owner a small rent fee or several girls shared an apartment. The LE viewed this as enslavement but the girls were and are free to leave anytime. Your question about getting busted, let's say a cop is in the parking lot when you leave and pulls up to you with lights flashing asking you questions it's all drama to scare the shit out of you. Reality is you got a massage and that's it keep your cool! Doesn't matter if the place is under investigation or not you were just a customer as if going into McDonald's. If only you and her were in the room no law was broken. Now IF the owner / employees are working with LE or somehow a hidden camera got placed in the room that's a different story. I agree there is some human trafficking in this business where girls get on the hook financially to come here then can't possibly pay it off for a long time but this word is spread pretty quick and is avoidable. It's no different than what the Banks do to legal citizens here with credit cards, Oh you're $10,000 in debt making minimum payments let me extend your credit line I got you on the hook for years! Maybe those con artists should be investigated for enslavement. Just my 2 cents.

[QUOTE=ThePolarVortex;7123754]I agree. Whether trafficking is at all involved or possibly involved is irrelevant. The multi-month prison term for intent to solicit is all that matters.[/QUOTE]Just to follow up. If you are going to an AMP, where is the intent to solicit? How is this any different than going to Massage Envy? Both are massage establishments.

[QUOTE=TheMundane;7121230].

Unfortunately, a lot of you have probably indirectly partook in a trafficking situation without even realizing it.

That's the problem. That's the reality.

[/QUOTE]Maaaan, don't parrot stuff like that that is simply not true. I can't speak for everyone, but I actually engage in a little chitchat and the trafficking is a joke. Maybe it's an elaborate con and they're just telling me the stories of them traveling freely and where their next trip is to and what their last job was and on and on. Or maybe the puritans just found a new angle to what they've been trying to do since forever?

It's worth remembering that if Tiger Woods had been outted in today's climate he would have been a full on sex trafficker. (Flew some girls across state lines into Vegas).

[QUOTE=WelladJustedJ;7123876]Maaaan, don't parrot stuff like that that is simply not true. I can't speak for everyone, but I actually engage in a little chitchat and the trafficking is a joke. Maybe it's an elaborate con and they're just telling me the stories of them traveling freely and where their next trip is to and what their last job was and on and on. Or maybe the puritans just found a new angle to what they've been trying to do since forever?

It's worth remembering that if Tiger Woods had been outted in today's climate he would have been a full on sex trafficker. (Flew some girls across state lines into Vegas).[/QUOTE]They're not trafficked. They've got more money than you or I do and frequently go on expensive vacations. One friend of mine traveled to certain states with her family and brought back proof. The government doesn't like it because they aren't taxable and deem them as criminals.

[QUOTE=Fharmonic;7123793]Just to follow up. If you are going to an AMP, where is the intent to solicit? How is this any different than going to Massage Envy? Both are massage establishments.[/QUOTE]I'm not a lawyer, but to me it would be when money beyond the house fee came out or was negotiated.

[QUOTE=Fharmonic;7123705]I have been following the posts regarding this new law and I have a few questions specifically around how this law will affect the AMPs. I always strike up a conversation with the provider regarding their nationality and background because I am genuinely interested. Most providers that I have chatted with travel back and forth to Korea on a somewhat regular / yearly basis to visit friends, parents, etc. So then I ask about their immigration status, and most have green cards. So one of my initial questions to this group is. How is this a Human Trafficking issue if they are in the US legally and they are working a job doing what they willing want to do?

My second thought is, if a customer were getting a massage, in a licensed establishment, by a person allowed to be in the US and working voluntarily, unless the police kick down the door at the correct time, how will the police know if there is a crime? And a follow up question is, what would be the motivation of a provider with a green card to tell the police anything after the fact?

So ultimately, what or how would a sting happen at an AMP?[/QUOTE]So, the 'wanting to do the work' thing isn't any more relevant than a US woman wanting to do that work. If she's providing illegal services, she can get busted, or used to be able to be busted. Most of the time the establishment and patrons get busted during raids when they have a search warrant and catch you in the act. They come in very swiftly, so you can't get your pants on, LOL. Actually I think one of the greatest risks is seeing undocumented or green card foreigners. If they are caught doing this. They don't have active immunity from the NC law, because they'll get turned over to ICE and whatever legal status they have could get revoked. The really tricky thing now is that HSI will want her to flip, and one of the reasons they can instantly get asylum status in the US is if they've been trafficked. So, I've been hearing that this is a tactic HSI will use to deliver lots of handler and customer convictions when the provider is a foreigner. She walks away and gets to stay.