General Reports

[QUOTE=TheMundane;7119478]These new laws don't worry me too much. The intent has to be proven you are soliciting a prostitute.

It's guys picking up streetwalkers and the adult bookstores who need to be the most worried. 'I almost never pick up a streetwalker.

Because in truth that is probably who this law is being targeted at.

[/QUOTE]If that's what you think I really suggest you do some research because you are way out of the loop. "Intent" is legally the lowest barrier to entry for charging you. No other jurisdiction in the country has a barrier this low as NC now. And if you look at how these homeland security task forces operate and have been operating as warm up in the past few months already in NC, you would understand that streetwalkers and bookstores might actually be the least concern.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7114542]Just a point of clarification on the way the law works in NC ... They need to show INTENT only in NC.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WaterLynn;7119915]If that's what you think I really suggest you do some research because you are way out of the loop. "Intent" is legally the lowest barrier to entry for charging you. No other jurisdiction in the country has a barrier this low as NC now. [/QUOTE]I'm missing something, where in the new law does it change language regarding intent? Or are you saying NC has always had that lower bar for solicitation, but now it seems they will be enforcing the law more, with more resources and funding, along with the upgraded felony charges?

I don't think SBs are a concern, particularly if you are following SA's rules and general advice SB threads give. As far as the potential of one "turning" on you, unless there is violence alleged or a minor involved, DAs don't really bring charges based on someone coming to them with some text messages on their phone, and I don't see police devoting resources to set up a one-person sting for solicitation.

I do feel bad for the mongers out there who aren't aware of this sledgehammer coming for them and are just responding to STG / EB ads like normal. Storm is coming.

[QUOTE=ElectricHug;7119972]I'm missing something, where in the new law does it change language regarding intent? Or are you saying NC has always had that lower bar for solicitation, but now it seems they will be enforcing the law more, with more resources and funding, along with the upgraded felony charges?

I don't think SBs are a concern, particularly if you are following SA's rules and general advice SB threads give. As far as the potential of one "turning" on you, unless there is violence alleged or a minor involved, DAs don't really bring charges based on someone coming to them with some text messages on their phone, and I don't see police devoting resources to set up a one-person sting for solicitation.

I do feel bad for the mongers out there who aren't aware of this sledgehammer coming for them and are just responding to STG / EB ads like normal. Storm is coming.[/QUOTE]First thing. The new law doesn't change the definition of solicitation. Here's the subsection that's been, and remains on the books. They don't need an offer, just intent, and there are soooo many ways that they can obtain that, but showing up is all you really have to do.

Enters or remains in a place of prostitution with intent to engage in vaginal.

Intercourse, any sexual act as defined in G. S. 14‑27.20, or any sexual contact as.

Defined in G. S. 14‑27.20, for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification.

The point you're making about Sugar Babies is exactly the change everyone needs to understand. In North Carolina, Solicitation is now Human Trafficking. And that has been deemed a sex crime. You have to stop thinking of it like you used to. The providers are now classified as Victims. Any Victim filing a complaint is going to be investigated. Always. 100%. It doesn't mean charges will be filed, but they're going to investigate in their pursuit of charges. The provider can't be charged and will be told she cannot incriminate herself. Have you ever had a Sugar Baby get pissed at you? I have. I had one that I had a quasi-relationship with. When I broke up with her and she could no longer go on vacation with me somewhere new around the world every month, she was pissed. She threatened me in every way imaginable. She stalked me. I tried to get a PPO and the judge looked at all 5'2" of her and laughed. And I'm an attorney. When she camped out at my house, went to my workplace, tried to reach out to my children, the detectives just felt sympathy for her, and the cops just kept driving her home for her to pick up her car later. Would she have fucked me with today's laws with those same detectives? You betcha. Back then she couldn't tell that judge that I paid her. She couldn't tell the detectives I paid her. Her charges for prostitution would have been worse than mine. Today. She could. And they would fuck me over. She can scream that she's a prostitute from the rooftops and all they'll see is a victim. I had another situation where I had a meet & greet at a restaurant. She seemed normal and was a beautiful college girl. Prior to the dinner we had come to terms via text. When she saw the car I was driving that night, she said "c'Mon. You can afford to pay me _ more $". I mostly thought she was joking and laughed it off. After dinner we were having drinks, she got tipsy and brought it up again. I pointed out that I had made a very generous deal and she went off. Batshit crazy. She threw her drink on me. She started yelling in public "He wants to pay me for sex". I left. Imagine what happens today in that situation, when the cops show up?

Do I see stings happening on SA? Not really. Although it's not going to be one on one, as you say, if they do decide to do it. The profile you respond to will likely mention sex. When you DM her she'll negotiate PPM. One decoy will be lining up 12 different guys for the same meetup. You're right, discussing details would be stupid, and I don't do that. What you also need to understand is that if you show up to a sting now, you are getting arrested. Regardless of how you've pre-positioned it. The low bar for intent is just so easy for them, and they'll leave it up to the prosecutor to determine if they can prove it. Regardless of the strength of case in this State, you're probably going to be charged. Maybe it will be dismissed later, maybe not. The damage will mostly be done.

On 11/30 this offense was treated like a glorified driving infraction. On 12/1, the offense is being treated like the monger is a drug dealer, not drug user. Drug dealer. Everyone needs to adjust to the change. In simple terms regarding stings, maybe they were willing to spend $3 k to get you before, now they'll be willing to spend the same $50 k to get you that they'd spend to nab pedo's. That's a huge difference.

At MMCESTEP:

For new providers or existing ones that have been long lost.

How about meeting outside for a coffee, and then if things feel well. Then things can be discussed?

It is going to be a longer shot for the girls, as they wouldn't be inclined but only on specific case by case interactions?

Of course this assumes that they are not wearing wire, and there is no discussion prior to this about sex on Text msgs.

I'm not a lawyer, and have ZERO knowledge.

SG.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7120065]First thing. The new law doesn't change the definition of solicitation. Here's the subsection that's been, and remains on the books. They don't need an offer, just intent, and there are soooo many ways that they can obtain that, but showing up is all you really have to do.

Enters or remains in a place of prostitution with intent to engage in vaginal.

Intercourse, any sexual act as defined in G. S. 14‑27.20, or any sexual contact as.

Defined in G. S. 14‑27.20, for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification.

The point you're making about Sugar Babies is exactly the change everyone needs to understand. In North Carolina, Solicitation is now Human Trafficking. And that has been deemed a sex crime. You have to stop thinking of it like you used to. The providers are now classified as Victims. Any Victim filing a complaint is going to be investigated. Always. 100%. It doesn't mean charges will be filed, but they're going to investigate in their pursuit of charges. The provider can't be charged and will be told she cannot incriminate herself. Have you ever had a Sugar Baby get pissed at you? I have. I had one that I had a quasi-relationship with. When I broke up with her and she could no longer go on vacation with me somewhere new around the world every month, she was pissed. She threatened me in every way imaginable. She stalked me. I tried to get a PPO and the judge looked at all 5'2" of her and laughed. And I'm an attorney. When she camped out at my house, went to my workplace, tried to reach out to my children, the detectives just felt sympathy for her, and the cops just kept driving her home for her to pick up her car later. Would she have fucked me with today's laws with those same detectives? You betcha. Back then she couldn't tell that judge that I paid her. She couldn't tell the detectives I paid her. Her charges for prostitution would have been worse than mine. Today. She could. And they would fuck me over. She can scream that she's a prostitute from the rooftops and all they'll see is a victim. I had another situation where I had a meet & greet at a restaurant. She seemed normal and was a beautiful college girl. Prior to the dinner we had come to terms via text. When she saw the car I was driving that night, she said "c'Mon. You can afford to pay me _ more $". I mostly thought she was joking and laughed it off. After dinner we were having drinks, she got tipsy and brought it up again. I pointed out that I had made a very generous deal and she went off. Batshit crazy. She threw her drink on me. She started yelling in public "He wants to pay me for sex". I left. Imagine what happens today in that situation, when the cops show up?

Do I see stings happening on SA? Not really. Although it's not going to be one on one, as you say, if they do decide to do it. The profile you respond to will likely mention sex. When you DM her she'll negotiate PPM. One decoy will be lining up 12 different guys for the same meetup. You're right, discussing details would be stupid, and I don't do that. What you also need to understand is that if you show up to a sting now, you are getting arrested. Regardless of how you've pre-positioned it. The low bar for intent is just so easy for them, and they'll leave it up to the prosecutor to determine if they can prove it. Regardless of the strength of case in this State, you're probably going to be charged. Maybe it will be dismissed later, maybe not. The damage will mostly be done.

On 11/30 this offense was treated like a glorified driving infraction. On 12/1, the offense is being treated like the monger is a drug dealer, not drug user. Drug dealer. Everyone needs to adjust to the change. In simple terms regarding stings, maybe they were willing to spend $3 k to get you before, now they'll be willing to spend the same $50 k to get you that they'd spend to nab pedo's. That's a huge difference.[/QUOTE]

They think they are saving all of these women from trafficking at the massage parlors, but the truth is they come here willingly to make good money. The jobs are advertised in New York and by word of mouth, and they come. If I had nice tits and ass plus could pass myself off as a woman, I would do it for what they make. That's what I hate about cops they act like they are saving people, but they are just ruining people's lives to say they did something great.

[QUOTE=StainGlass;7120215]At MMCESTEP:

For new providers or existing ones that have been long lost.

How about meeting outside for a coffee, and then if things feel well. Then things can be discussed?

It is going to be a longer shot for the girls, as they wouldn't be inclined but only on specific case by case interactions?

Of course this assumes that they are not wearing wire, and there is no discussion prior to this about sex on Text msgs.

I'm not a lawyer, and have ZERO knowledge.

SG.[/QUOTE]

That does seem safer. But my concern would be that when you look at how much money is being made available to agencies towards each arrest, I absolutely could see them considering worth it to set up multi-day or otherwise complex stings with wires and such. The grant money available is astronomical.

Would be curious to hear from mmcestep on this as well

I think a lot of you should read the statue more deeply before jumping to conclusions.

[URL]https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2023/Bills/House/PDF/H971v7.pdf[/URL]

I think most men here read headlines but not did the research. H971 clearly states that this is human trafficking. This is not just.

Run of the mill paying an escort who voluntarily chooses to post for whatever reason. A single mom needing extra cash is not being trafficked.

A college student needing extra cash is not being trafficked.

This is to combat solicitation of women who are clearly being pimped out. The law clearly states training to be aware of human trafficking.

Going to seedy ass hotels, going to any hotel where a woman clearly looks like she lives, picking up a street walker and taking her somewhere.

To bring her back after done. That is what this law is combating. Because let's face it a lot of illegals are being pimped out. And a lot of men are.

Paying for them.

THAT is a problem and that is an actual victim.

Because with the law not only can the combat trafficking of the women (or kids) but it also likely gets them to also combat drug trafficking because a lot of.

These women are strung out and can lead back to drugs.

Your run of the mill sex worker is less of a focus. I am not saying they are not a focus but this law clearly targets human trafficking and defines human trafficking.

The law states:

"(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who solicits another for the.

Purpose of prostitution is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor Class I felony for a first offense and a.

Class H felony for a second or subsequent offense. This subsection shall not apply to the person.

Engaging in prostitution, as defined in G. S. 14-203 (5). Any person 18 years of age or older who.

Willfully solicits a minor for the purpose of prostitution is guilty of a Class G felony. Any person.

Who willfully solicits a person who has a severe or profound mental disability for the purpose of.

Prostitution is guilty of a Class E felony. Punishment under this section may include participation.

In a program devised for the education and prevention of sexual exploitation (I. E. "John School".

Where available. A person who violates this subsection is not eligible for a disposition of prayer.

For judgment continued under any circumstances."

Soliciting a prostitute has literally always been illegal. Nothing has changed except the penalty. You should have always been using common sense as.

I stated because you never should have been discussing direct sex acts for this amount of dollars.

Read the law and just use common sense.

I suggest you reread the law.

The LAW is not about trafficking.

The LAW is about reducing solicitation.

Read the 1st line of the law. It's clear.

The idea is by reducing soliticitors. Trafficking will go away.

Yes. It was always illegal.

Going 5 mph is illegal. But I do it.

If the cops could charge me with a felony and put me away for 3 months. I likely would not.

It's why when I go over the speed limit. I am very careful to not hit reckless driving speeds. Higher penalty.

It's just a matter of which jurisdictions will or will not focus resources on this.

The Risk side of the equation just shot up the charts.

[QUOTE=TheMundane;7120419]I think a lot of you should read the statue more deeply before jumping to conclusions.

[URL]https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2023/Bills/House/PDF/H971v7.pdf[/URL]

I think most men here read headlines but not did the research. H971 clearly states that this is human trafficking. This is not just.

Run of the mill paying an escort who voluntarily chooses to post for whatever reason. A single mom needing extra cash is not being trafficked.

A college student needing extra cash is not being trafficked.

This is to combat solicitation of women who are clearly being pimped out. The law clearly states training to be aware of human trafficking.

Going to seedy ass hotels, going to any hotel where a woman clearly looks like she lives, picking up a street walker and taking her somewhere.

To bring her back after done. That is what this law is combating. Because let's face it a lot of illegals are being pimped out. And a lot of men are.

Paying for them.

THAT is a problem and that is an actual victim.

Because with the law not only can the combat trafficking of the women (or kids) but it also likely gets them to also combat drug trafficking because a lot of.

These women are strung out and can lead back to drugs.

Your run of the mill sex worker is less of a focus. I am not saying they are not a focus but this law clearly targets human trafficking and defines human trafficking.

The law states:

"(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who solicits another for the.

Purpose of prostitution is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor Class I felony for a first offense and a.

Class H felony for a second or subsequent offense. This subsection shall not apply to the person.

Engaging in prostitution, as defined in G. S. 14-203 (5). Any person 18 years of age or older who.

Willfully solicits a minor for the purpose of prostitution is guilty of a Class G felony. Any person.

Who willfully solicits a person who has a severe or profound mental disability for the purpose of.

Prostitution is guilty of a Class E felony. Punishment under this section may include participation.

In a program devised for the education and prevention of sexual exploitation (I. E. "John School".

Where available. A person who violates this subsection is not eligible for a disposition of prayer.

For judgment continued under any circumstances."

Soliciting a prostitute has literally always been illegal. Nothing has changed except the penalty. You should have always been using common sense as.

I stated because you never should have been discussing direct sex acts for this amount of dollars.

Read the law and just use common sense.[/QUOTE]

The law is about solicitation specifically targeting human trafficking.

Again. Read all 9 pages of the statute. It doesn't say they are training.

To notice signs of solicitation. They are being trained to notice signs of trafficking.

Solicitation has always been illegal to buy a prostitute. That is not changing.

Given the rise of men being arrested and charged with human trafficking this is to fully combat that.

Unfortunately, a lot of you have probably indirectly partook in a trafficking situation without even realizing it.

That's the problem. That's the reality.

Again these girls out here who are running their own junk are not the target. Sugar babies are not the target. Strippers at the club aren't the target.

It's the girls clearly heavy on the drug use and showing signs of abuse.

They can still be charged with general prostitution. The law only protects obvious victims of trafficking. Because they are clearly being exploited. As I said before.

Use common sense.

The girl who runs an OF and is an escort is not going to fall into "human trafficking" bc to be human trafficked you'd need to be in the situation fully against your will.

And clearly she isn't. I know several girls like this.

The street walker your picked up off capital who is giving full service in your truck for $30 and has a strange man hovering around her or clearly has noticeable signs.

Of abuse on her body is likely trafficked.

The stripper you decide to get a BBBJ from or the massage with a HE isn't likely being trafficked.

But that girl whose age is really hard to pinpoint and speaks little to no English is probably being trafficked.

The law states it for solicitation yes but if you actually read and comprehend all nine pages you'll see it's about human trafficking.

Weed is illegal. It's always been illegal in Nc. Yes you can get in trouble for possessing it because it is an illegal drug.

But there is a big difference in possessing weed and possessing meth or fenty.

Same thing here.

[QUOTE=Livinitinva;7121202]I suggest you reread the law.

The LAW is not about trafficking.

The LAW is about reducing solicitation.

Read the 1st line of the law. It's clear.

The idea is by reducing soliticitors. Trafficking will go away.

Yes. It was always illegal.

Going 5 mph is illegal. But I do it.

If the cops could charge me with a felony and put me away for 3 months. I likely would not.

It's why when I go over the speed limit. I am very careful to not hit reckless driving speeds. Higher penalty.

It's just a matter of which jurisdictions will or will not focus resources on this.

The Risk side of the equation just shot up the charts.[/QUOTE]

Just a silly thought, can we ask the providers to hand us $1 first before paying them anything? In that case they are the buyers and we are the victims LOL

[QUOTE=Aamogdem;7121486]Just a silly thought, can we ask the providers to hand us $1 first before paying them anything? In that case they are the buyers and we are the victims LOL[/QUOTE]LOL you just opened my eyes to a new reality. The law doesn't specifically mention gender right? I could use 12 k!

[QUOTE=TheMundane;7121230]The law is about solicitation specifically targeting human trafficking.

Again. Read all 9 pages of the statute. It doesn't say they are training.

To notice signs of solicitation. They are being trained to notice signs of trafficking.

Solicitation has always been illegal to buy a prostitute. That is not changing.

Given the rise of men being arrested and charged with human trafficking this is to fully combat that.

Unfortunately, a lot of you have probably indirectly partook in a trafficking situation without even realizing it.

That's the problem. That's the reality.

Again these girls out here who are running their own junk are not the target. Sugar babies are not the target. Strippers at the club aren't the target.

It's the girls clearly heavy on the drug use and showing signs of abuse.

They can still be charged with general prostitution. The law only protects obvious victims of trafficking. Because they are clearly being exploited. As I said before.

Use common sense.

The girl who runs an OF and is an escort is not going to fall into "human trafficking" bc to be human trafficked you'd need to be in the situation fully against your will.

And clearly she isn't. I know several girls like this.

The street walker your picked up off capital who is giving full service in your truck for $30 and has a strange man hovering around her or clearly has noticeable signs.

Of abuse on her body is likely trafficked.

The stripper you decide to get a BBBJ from or the massage with a HE isn't likely being trafficked.

But that girl whose age is really hard to pinpoint and speaks little to no English is probably being trafficked.

The law states it for solicitation yes but if you actually read and comprehend all nine pages you'll see it's about human trafficking.

Weed is illegal. It's always been illegal in Nc. Yes you can get in trouble for possessing it because it is an illegal drug.

But there is a big difference in possessing weed and possessing meth or fenty.

Same thing here.[/QUOTE]I'm an attorney. Take that for what it's worth. You are misunderstanding the new law. Solicitation is Human Trafficking now in NC. They are categorizing Solicitation as a Sex Crime. This is the Nordic Model of prostitution. Look it up.

My best advice to you is to retain a criminal attorney to explain this to you. It won't cost as much as you think.

Proper education is critical if you continue with this hobby. Otherwise your life just won't be the same.

[QUOTE=TheMundane;7121230]The law is about solicitation specifically targeting human trafficking.

Again. Read all 9 pages of the statute. It doesn't say they are training.

To notice signs of solicitation. They are being trained to notice signs of trafficking.

Solicitation has always been illegal to buy a prostitute. That is not changing.

Given the rise of men being arrested and charged with human trafficking this is to fully combat that.

Unfortunately, a lot of you have probably indirectly partook in a trafficking situation without even realizing it.

That's the problem. That's the reality.

Again these girls out here who are running their own junk are not the target. Sugar babies are not the target. Strippers at the club aren't the target.

It's the girls clearly heavy on the drug use and showing signs of abuse.

They can still be charged with general prostitution. The law only protects obvious victims of trafficking. Because they are clearly being exploited. As I said before.

Use common sense.

The girl who runs an OF and is an escort is not going to fall into "human trafficking" bc to be human trafficked you'd need to be in the situation fully against your will.

And clearly she isn't. I know several girls like this.

The street walker your picked up off capital who is giving full service in your truck for $30 and has a strange man hovering around her or clearly has noticeable signs.

Of abuse on her body is likely trafficked.

The stripper you decide to get a BBBJ from or the massage with a HE isn't likely being trafficked.

But that girl whose age is really hard to pinpoint and speaks little to no English is probably being trafficked.

The law states it for solicitation yes but if you actually read and comprehend all nine pages you'll see it's about human trafficking.

Weed is illegal. It's always been illegal in Nc. Yes you can get in trouble for possessing it because it is an illegal drug.

But there is a big difference in possessing weed and possessing meth or fenty.

Same thing here.[/QUOTE]How do you know someone on OF or escorting is not doing so against her will? There could be mental, emotional, or financial holds and not physical abuse that is keeping her in a "trafficked" situation.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7121825]I'm an attorney. Take that for what it's worth. You are misunderstanding the new law. Solicitation is Human Trafficking now in NC. They are categorizing Solicitation as a Sex Crime. This is the Nordic Model of prostitution. Look it up.

My best advice to you is to retain a criminal attorney to explain this to you. It won't cost as much as you think.

Proper education is critical if you continue with this hobby. Otherwise your life just won't be the same.[/QUOTE]Thank God a Lawyer chimed and not with a panic statement but good advice to educate yourself. There is a slight silver lining and a big IF anyone wants to chance it. My guess is a big chunk of Monger's will drop out of this game or hold off for a long time until this is figured out. And these ladies with bills and habits will loose their easy income and face getting a real job! The laws of economics is when demand drops, the prices tank. So that Two to Four hundred dollar Pussy can be had at a bargain price IF your little head is in charge. Sorry for the weird example in these stressful times but I'm a business man always thinking about the deal. Mark my words the price of Pussy will come down at least in NC.

[QUOTE=XHippie;7122311]Thank God a Lawyer chimed and not with a panic statement but good advice to educate yourself. There is a slight silver lining and a big IF anyone wants to chance it. My guess is a big chunk of Monger's will drop out of this game or hold off for a long time until this is figured out. And these ladies with bills and habits will loose their easy income and face getting a real job! The laws of economics is when demand drops, the prices tank. So that Two to Four hundred dollar Pussy can be had at a bargain price IF your little head is in charge. Sorry for the weird example in these stressful times but I'm a business man always thinking about the deal. Mark my words the price of Pussy will come down at least in NC.[/QUOTE]That's an interesting point about the prices. A lot of females who considered sex work but were worried about the legal aspect no longer have a reason to sit on the sidelines. At the same time, as you said, the demand side is heavily discouraged. Sex workers could get desperate.