"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2275040]She has a inkling and has had a taste of the lifestyle. How much?? Not sure but does have an interest. Just start lite. Some bondage. Little hair pulling. Dirty talk. Spanking. And just progress each time a little bit further. Example: . As she is tied up and you have her ankles around your head and are caressing her breasts gently slide your hand over her neck. How does she respond? Does she kinda grin. Tilt her head back? She wants some additional pressure. Just a little further each time. When it gets more forceful just whisper "too much". And let her respond. Go from there![/QUOTE]This is helpful. I had a baby down in NC a year or so ago when I had business there who liked to have her hair pulled and be spanked, so I have a little experience with that level of things. I just want to be sure I'm not missing some crucial info in the definitions of the words they are using, like "prioritize. ".

I never in a million years expected to say this, but for those of you who remember him, I'd like to hear from Sub Commander on this. Although I know the shit he was into was WAY beyond my tolerance level.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2274715]The post under your original comment is the "pillow princess". Here is the "tomboy princess". Similar body types except this one is 5'11" and the other one is only 5'5". Plus she (TBP) flaked on me last night with an explanation. And is almost at the flaking point tonite. So a little frustrating.[/QUOTE]I apologize for the confusion, so allow me amend my statement, nothing like either the "pillow princess" or the tomboy princess" in my market. Ok, maybe 1, 2 max, and that's in a 75 mile radius.

[QUOTE=Playa12;2275052]I apologize for the confusion, so allow me amend my statement, nothing like either the "pillow princess" or the tomboy princess" in my market. Ok, maybe 1, 2 max, and that's in a 75 mile radius.[/QUOTE]I would move out of that city. Fast. No doubt L. A. Is the capitol of thin, but thin girls are everywhere. Another reason to go with the younger ones.

This 19 year old hottie created her profile late last night. So I jumped right on it. She agreed to my $ and said to meet her at 2 pm today. I couldn't get off work and tried to reschedule for 9 pm. By then it was way too late, as the offers started rolling in. Now she won't even reply to me. I have seen 9's and 10's usually 18 to 20 that will jump on the first real offer even if it is lowball, but you have got to follow up pronto or it will never happen. You snooze you lose. And I lost this one.

The girl below did get back to me today. Trying to see if she will meet me for just a traditional M&G tonite near her home as she has no car. Hope so.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2276316]The girl below did get back to me today. Trying to see if she will meet me for just a traditional M&G tonite near her home as she has no car. Hope so.[/QUOTE]
I'm beginning to think you need your own thread on here, dude! What kind of vitamins do you take? If I didn't know better, I'd think there was more than one of you!
I didn't know there were that many hours in the day for all the babies you bed.
Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott;2277004]I'm beginning to think you need your own thread on here, dude! What kind of vitamins do you take? If I didn't know better, I'd think there was more than one of you!
I didn't know there were that many hours in the day for all the babies you bed.
Scott[/QUOTE]Being single doesn't hurt. I am in reasonably good health. Not overweight. I do apply the testosterone cream everyday (.6 a month). I used to inject HGH, but its too expensive for me now (1k to 2k a month)(switched to serovital). I take my vitamin C daily (15 mg costs me about 13 dollars a day). And really the key is to hook up with girls that float your boat. Real chemistry is what I need to stay active. If the chemistry isn't there, I dont make a second date. I dont care if its free.

I only dropped the ball twice this year. The first girl took it as a personal insult. Even though we had had amazing sex many many times. So I guess that was meant to end anyway. But after a few years we had gone to a no more sugar arrangement as well (and I thought she liked me. lol). The second one was a date I had a few weeks ago with a cute chinese girl. The date was a little awkward and I was tired. I was a little embarrassed to follow up with her but today she txted me out of nowhere so we made a date for monday.

[QUOTE=F Scott;2277004]I'm beginning to think you need your own thread on here, dude! What kind of vitamins do you take? If I didn't know better, I'd think there was more than one of you!
I didn't know there were that many hours in the day for all the babies you bed.
Scott[/QUOTE]Sometimes I feel bad about posting too much. And there is a bunch of stuff I don't even mention. I figured with 20+ posters it would never be an issue. Hey lurkers, we know you"re out there. Post Something. Anything. LOL

I can't tell you how many Friday nites I have sat home and done nothing (except watch camgirls). Of course it always goes one way or the other. Today I was gonna see girl A so I told girl B to just go out and have fun. Sure enough girl A calls and says she is sick and can't make it due to having a cold. So i get everything set up for girl B and for us to have a good date instead. Shortly thereafter girl A calls and says she's bored and feeling better and can she come over. She already knows I reset everything to see her tomorrow and see girl B tonite. I tell her sorry and she claims she is OK with it. But I just met her and cant really say we have a solid enough anything not to hurt her feelings. But these young girls are not business executives running on a tight schedule. They don't always appreciate or even know how hard it is to work 7 days a week and be able to schedule all this shit in the first place. And trying to explain it to them is usually not a good idea. I always get the feeling they don't believe you even when you're telling the truth.

It's closing in on the first. The time I usually reset my relationships. I have narrowed it down to the best few. Thats why I have the time to look a little more. From reading this board I have learned to be more selective and not feel too pressured when girls ask for things I dont want to give. Or just fucking every girl thats willing. And in my hood its endless. I did stay on budget this year and thats the main thing. Had some fun, had some drama, met some interesting people and grew as a person myself through the experience.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2277244]Sometimes I feel bad about posting too much. And there is a bunch of stuff I don't even mention. I figured with 20+ posters it would never be an issue. Hey lurkers, we know you"re out there. Post Something. Anything. LOL[/QUOTE]

Hollywood I always look forward to your posts. Never occurred to me that you might be posting too much. As for my lurking, I'm guilty as charged. For various reasons I have not been as active in the Bowl lately and haven't anything new to add. When I do start playing again I will try to be a contributor as well as a reader. In the meantime, hope you have continued good fortune in the bowl and please don't cut back on your posts.

If anyone in Boston wants quick access to a very, very pretty girl for a mere $500 you could try your hand at the pretty lady attached. You wouldn't have to waste any time with dating, you could go straight to the FC. In fact, she will suggest it herself.

She blocked me from her private and hot pictures before I had time to type this (Hollywood would wholeheartedly approve), after I let her know that she was beyond my budget. None of the tactics previously discussed here about regular visits, etc worked to bring her to a more reasonable space.

Gents,

Busy, busy week, but not much to show for it. Between sending messages, replying, texting, skyping, getting ready for M&G, rescheduling things to give me the time to M&G, actually going to the date, I'm freaking exhausted. I feel like Ray Liotta in Good Fellas, running around trying to make tomato sauce and meatballs.

I had a cute beauty specialist cancel our 2nd date at the last minute because she apparently is starting something serious with someone else. OK.

I had dinner with a so-called gym rat who turned out to be anything but. She posted as a fetish aficionado which sounded like a lot of fun. We had a great conversation, but it ended with a flop and not even a kiss. She later told me she was turned off when I suggested I wouldn't want to be whipped.

Had drinks M&G lined up with a new one but she cancelled for being under the weather.

A 19 yr old student to whom I've spoken to in the past and twice tried to setup a date with resurfaced asking me out with 12 hrs notice on a day where I already had something going on. I did the best I could to explain that I need a little heads up. She's presumably going to be done with finals mid-Dec. This one I can't invest too much in as she's a super communication flake.

I had a skype session with a super nice but not very fit girl. I might pursue as she seems a little sub and didn't bristle at my low sugar figure. She was great to talk to, maybe she'll make me feel great.

The one that bummed me out the most was date #3 with a cute, smart young student with zero social skills. Long story short, it took everything I had to squeeze out a little make out session and was caught stealing at 2nd and 3rd base. No sugar expended, but lots of time in traffic and some money on expensive drinks and apps. Clearly she's not into me, so I got to cut her loose.

I've already told you about the $500 GPS. We were set for drinks when she threw out her amount. I'm damned glad she did too as it saved me lots of time and allowed me to squeeze in the above.

Phew. With all the eating, drinking and skipping on the gym I feel like crap. I might need a break from chasing tail.

I got no game. I wish I had game. I'm not even sure what game is. Would someone who has game please explain what game is? And maybe even how to develop it? Do I need to watch videos from wirdos on youtube about techniques like "peacocking" and stuff?

(last post of the night, promise)

This game is tiring but man when your balls deep in something new who is kissing you and telling you nice things it is worth it. I have two on the line. The first one is an artsy girl who is helping me stay connected to youth and terms of her world but keep the cookie jar closed. Three dates and no base play yet, I know I know, but like gambling I put this much in, my number has to come up next spin. I will give her one more date I think.

The second one is crazy. Out if my league girl who likes it all. Anal, multi rounds, great making out. She is a little of a pro I found out and maybe a little unstable mentally. Man this is like riding a roller coaster and not knowing if there is a cliff or station at the end.

Oh and I went out with a French girl from Chevy chase, what a waste. She gets in the car and is texting, not asking any questions and let's me do most of the talking. We get lunch and same shit. I took her ass back home.

I finally had my first FC date with a SB since June, and sadly it was not without its issues.

In addition to the handful of other POTs I've been chatting with, I had been chatting with SA POT 2, the one who I had a M&G with last week. After that, things just didn't work out for dates we had planned (feeling under the weather, that time of the month, etc.) and with all the problems we had been having with seeing each other, I would normally assume that she was just trying to string me along. But she insisted that she really wanted to see me again, so I hung in there. So things finally align last night and we meet at the FC.

First, the good news: She's really hot in a girl next door way. Definitely a 8 or 9 in the looks. Nice athletic body with a bit of extra curves in the boobs and butt. She's friendly and she's smart. She's local and we have almost the exact same work schedule, and she's willing to get together a few times a week, as opposed to the few times a month I'm used to with previous girls. She is comfortable with whatever I give her as far as sugar. Willing to BB (her suggestion).

Now the bad news: She was really passive. Didn't really give too much affection, didn't initiate anything. I kept thinking I was doing something wrong or something else was going on, which bothered me. Even with the V going through my system, I had major issues keeping the little guy awake because of how passive she was and how that was making me feel. There's a fine line between submissive (which I love) and passive (which I hate). And then when I thought we finally had things going and I was able to fuck her without little FotoGuy taking a vacation, she told me she'd have to leave soon, which I thought meant she needed me to stop. She later told me that that wasn't the case and I could have kept going, but it was frustrating. I did tell her that I like to receive affection as much as I like to give it, hoping that she'll take the hint. Plus she admitted she was really, really nervous and that she will be a lot better our next date.

It's definitely not the worst first-time FC date I've had with a SB, not by a long shot. But it could have been way better and I'm hoping that this was just her nervousness at work. We may be seeing each other again in just a couple days, hopefully it will be an improvement over this time.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2277465]I finally had my first FC date with a SB since June, and sadly it was not without its issues.

In addition to the handful of other POTs I've been chatting with, I had been chatting with SA POT 2, the one who I had a M&G with last week. After that, things just didn't work out for dates we had planned (feeling under the weather, that time of the month, etc.) and with all the problems we had been having with seeing each other, I would normally assume that she was just trying to string me along. But she insisted that she really wanted to see me again, so I hung in there. So things finally align last night and we meet at the FC.

First, the good news: She's really hot in a girl next door way. Definitely a 8 or 9 in the looks. Nice athletic body with a bit of extra curves in the boobs and butt. She's friendly and she's smart. She's local and we have almost the exact same work schedule, and she's willing to get together a few times a week, as opposed to the few times a month I'm used to with previous girls. She is comfortable with whatever I give her as far as sugar. Willing to BB (her suggestion).

Now the bad news: She was really passive. Didn't really give too much affection, didn't initiate anything. I kept thinking I was doing something wrong or something else was going on, which bothered me. Even with the V going through my system, I had major issues keeping the little guy awake because of how passive she was and how that was making me feel. There's a fine line between submissive (which I love) and passive (which I hate). And then when I thought we finally had things going and I was able to fuck her without little FotoGuy taking a vacation, she told me she'd have to leave soon, which I thought meant she needed me to stop. She later told me that that wasn't the case and I could have kept going, but it was frustrating. I did tell her that I like to receive affection as much as I like to give it, hoping that she'll take the hint. Plus she admitted she was really, really nervous and that she will be a lot better our next date.

It's definitely not the worst first-time FC date I've had with a SB, not by a long shot. But it could have been way better and I'm hoping that this was just her nervousness at work. We may be seeing each other again in just a couple days, hopefully it will be an improvement over this time.[/QUOTE]I had one like this a couple months ago. Body was a 10 but a complete zero in bed. I had to even guide her hand to where it needed to be. I gave her a second chance with no improvement. A real shame. Kinda like taking a mazaratti for a drive through a school zone.

Ok, HollywoodGuy has pulled me out of the shadows! I have lurked on USG for years (and years) and was active in the DC MP scene back in the good days. BP girls when I travel here and there. I saw this SB forum 6 months or so ago and became interested in the bowl. I've RTFF from the beginning and am truly impressed with some of your exploits. I'm a pretty private type so posting on such a forum is a stretch for me but I figured I've taken, so I should give back.

Joined SA a few months ago. I live and work outside the metro area proper so my options are a little limited. I work a lot and have been trying to locate SB's that are close enough that I can play during the day a little.

So far:

30 something AA. M&G at Starbucks, FC at her place a few days later. Little thicker than I like but she was sweet and even baked me cookies. I gave her $ and she was appreciative. Fun but did not repeat. She wants a BF.

Multiple messaging with lots of others but they are either flakes, druggies, serial texter's etc. I need to update my profile as I threw a quick one on there to get me started. I'm going to spend the time to craft a much more appealing ad.

I'm a decent looking mid 40's guy. Not sure I can pull the 19-20 YO's but I'm going to try. I will keep you updated. Thanks to all you successful ballers. You are an inspiration!

VAguy68.

Ok, I actually had a whole day to myself and was determined to capitalize on it. There are 2 POTs that I have been talking to extensively for 2 months now. Do to distance, schedules arranging something with them has been difficult but now I had like an 8 hour window. Surely it would work out. Plus another POT that I had talked to awhile back started texting me. In addition, my POF profile had struck up with an UTR, and I had initiated chats with two other young SBs POTs. So here is the breakdown.

POT31-- Talked to her almost on daily basis for 2 months, 31, white, very cute, seems to be very sexually open. I think we get along great. But everytime I suggest an actual date, she gets strangely silent, doesn't even acknowledge the proposal. So I throw out Friday knowing in theory it's a good day for her to meet me. No response on it. She continues to chat with me, but just sort of acts like the idea was never floated. Not sure where this one is going to end up. In some ways, I think she sort of likes me as a person but can't figure out how that fits in with the SD / SB thing. If I was single and lived closer, I actually think she would just want to date me.

POT23- 23, mixed, grad student. Very cute with a tinge of sexy. Sort of funky personality which I like. She's different but not mental. We talk about 3 times a week. Like above, we seem to get along really well. I throw out Friday knowing she doesn't have class, really no response like above but at least she just stops chatting altogether. I don't really get it, but I think some girls just can't pull the trigger when it gets right down to it.

POT24 - Tall lean, AA girl, 24, just finished school, doing an internship. Very attractive, nice body, maybe a little too skinny if anything. But a solid 9 in my book. We chatted before, but schedules never meshed, now she is texting me again. But she has her internship on Friday, so can't meet up. But she does ask me for cash to pay for some licensing exams she has to take. It sounds like a legit request but I explain that I can't forward her money considering we haven't met and it's been impossible to arrange anything so far so why should I be confident that next week or the week after we are going to be able to do it? She has no transportation of own and apparently cannot borrow a friends or family members car. Haven't heard from her since.

POT18-Just starting chatting with her on like Wednesday. 18, white, a few extra pounds (I seem to be king of this type), cute face. Lives with BF, not sure how I feel about that. She lives about 50 minutes from me, no car We chat a little, and I went tosee her on Friday AM. She has an appt. We talk a little, play cards, then make out like a couple of teenagers. She says she is on her period, not sure if I believed it but didn't push further. We hung out for about hour and a half. I actually left without any contribution but we did talk about buying her some boots she liked when I came up next. I will see her again and start being generous.

UTR. Chatted with on POF, 20 AA, looks like a nice curvy but fit body. She was very upfront about what she wanted in exchange for companionship. Maybe more a pro but I couldn't find her on any pro sites so I dunno for sure. Since my 18 year old above did not drain me of my energy, I try to hook up with her. I suggested a time. She say how about 20 minutes from now. I say I can't, I am about 50 minutes from you. She says maybe she can wait. I try contacting once I am back in town, no answer. Later she said her phone died, we could reschedule. Not sure what to think but I will likely try again just to see what she is all about.

POT19 -- White, pretty, no body pic but I think she is probably average build. Text for a short while. Its very weird, we grew up in the same town and actually lived on the same street, albeit 3 decades apart. Chat seems to go well, a lot of kidding back and forth. I tell her it's getting late but would love to talk more. She seems very interested. But she has not responding to my texts since.

Meanwhile, my original SB emails me saying her friend who she had previously said would do a threesome with us was in dire straits and needed money. The email made it sound like her friend (who is very pretty) wanted in on some action. I say I am interested and to text me. Like an hour and a half later she finally texts me but it is abundantly clear that it would just be original SB and she wanted way to much. I ignored the texts and then email her the next day saying "What happened, never heard from you".

Anyway, at least it's never dull.

[QUOTE=DandyDon;2277596]I don't really get it, but I think some girls just can't pull the trigger when it gets right down to it.
[/QUOTE]I agree. I'm finding that to be quite common place. I believe that veterans of the bowl have perfected the art of weeding the flakes and indecisive as quickly and cheaply as possible. It really is a numbers game. And time spent on someone who won't pan out carries an opportunity cost. I can see now why it may be best to be very direct, even at the risk of piercing the romantic bubble of some, for the sake getting to the point.

Slow and Dandy.

For many women, sex for money is a line that is hard to cross overtly.

On the one hand, many women desperately need money for whatever, but for most of them, to get money for sex and admit that's what they are doing is one small step for man, but one giant leap for womankind.

What SB / SD sites do is give them a fig leaf so they can convince themselves that the line is "over there", and that being a SB is not really money for sex, and that what she is doing hasn't crossed the line quite yet.

So, with that in mind, with the waverers I have used two things in combination. The first, curiosity. Women are curious creatures. The second is to make sure that the only way their curiosity is satisfied is if they come to the M&G.

For example, if someone is interested but hesitating, it means that they are unlikely to have done this before. So, invite them to the M&G on a definite "no money or sex" meeting where you will tell them all about the various scams that could trap them, or something else they seem to be curious about. Them DON'T let them wheedle that information out of you by email or text. In other words, the only way they can satisfy their curiosity is to come to a "definitely no money or sex" M&G.

The whole point of this rather absurd charade is to get them to the face to face meeting by giving them the excuse that they are not meeting you to negotiate sex for money, oh good gracious no, they are meeting you to satisfy their curiosity.

Once at the M&G, you then have the chance to let them relax and get comfortable with you. Once they are there, the likelihood of progression to the FC is high, if you have enough game.

I don't. LOL.

However, what has worked on enough occasions to make it worth while is this. When I see them making the exit sounds, I bring out one of those fridge magnets, write my phone number on the magnet side plastic, and give it to them saying something like "Look, I can see you are not interested now, but if you ever have a real financial crisis, call me and we'll see what we can work out". If the magnet is cute, it will likely end up on the refrigerator door. When the refrigerator is empty and my number is up there. With these women, it is often only a matter of time before the crisis really hits.

I have found at that point my lack of game is much less of a problem.

Please note that this is only worth trying for those pots who are wavering. UTR and experienced SB aren't in the crosshairs for this. I use it for the married ones and their partners. Couples in financial need are often the biggest waverers for some reason.

[QUOTE=VaGuy68;2277550]Ok, HollywoodGuy has pulled me out of the shadows! I have lurked on USG for years (and years) and was active in the DC MP scene back in the good days. BP girls when I travel here and there. I saw this SB forum 6 months or so ago and became interested in the bowl. I've RTFF from the beginning and am truly impressed with some of your exploits. I'm a pretty private type so posting on such a forum is a stretch for me but I figured I've taken, so I should give back.

Joined SA a few months ago. I live and work outside the metro area proper so my options are a little limited. I work a lot and have been trying to locate SB's that are close enough that I can play during the day a little.

So far:

30 something AA. M&G at Starbucks, FC at her place a few days later. Little thicker than I like but she was sweet and even baked me cookies. I gave her $ and she was appreciative. Fun but did not repeat. She wants a BF.

Multiple messaging with lots of others but they are either flakes, druggies, serial texter's etc. I need to update my profile as I threw a quick one on there to get me started. I'm going to spend the time to craft a much more appealing ad.

I'm a decent looking mid 40's guy. Not sure I can pull the 19-20 YO's but I'm going to try. I will keep you updated. Thanks to all you successful ballers. You are an inspiration!

VAguy68.[/QUOTE]You can pull the 19-20 yo's. No doubt. I'm 60. Living proof. If it weren't for the members postings on this board I wouldn't have even tried but now I have a regular 20 yo co-ed (just turned 20 in Aug) and have enjoyed a 19 and several lower 20's. Have to work at it but it's there. I wish I were still mid 40's LOL.

I am in spinner paradise. She is the tallest girl I have ever been with by far. 5'11' and 118. Amazing skills. Date 5 and counting. A true NP princess. But like I told her. "I really dont care what your story is as long as you can make me believe it". My experience tells me she is totally for real. I am not in doubt about her low mileage or NP status. Total for the first 5 dates is $$$$ so far. It's creeping up but she's well worth it.

M&G with another SA POT later today. I've been trying to steer my M&Gs to Starbucks or Biggbys or something similar instead of a restaurant. Hard to talk to one another while eating, the M&G doesn't have to take nearly as long as it would at a restaurant, and it saves on the budget. I have another M&G with a different POT in a couple days, also for coffee.

[QUOTE=DandyDon;2277596]Ok, I actually had a whole day to myself and was determined to capitalize on it. There are 2 POTs that I have been talking to extensively for 2 months now. Do to distance, schedules arranging something with them has been difficult but now I had like an 8 hour window. Surely it would work out. Plus another POT that I had talked to awhile back started texting me. In addition, my POF profile had struck up with an UTR, and I had initiated chats with two other young SBs POTs. So here is the breakdown.

POT31-- Talked to her almost on daily basis for 2 months, 31, white, very cute, seems to be very sexually open. I think we get along great. But everytime I suggest an actual date, she gets strangely silent, doesn't even acknowledge the proposal. So I throw out Friday knowing in theory it's a good day for her to meet me. No response on it. She continues to chat with me, but just sort of acts like the idea was never floated. Not sure where this one is going to end up. In some ways, I think she sort of likes me as a person but can't figure out how that fits in with the SD / SB thing. If I was single and lived closer, I actually think she would just want to date me.

POT23- 23, mixed, grad student. Very cute with a tinge of sexy. Sort of funky personality which I like. She's different but not mental. We talk about 3 times a week. Like above, we seem to get along really well. I throw out Friday knowing she doesn't have class, really no response like above but at least she just stops chatting altogether. I don't really get it, but I think some girls just can't pull the trigger when it gets right down to it.

POT24 - Tall lean, AA girl, 24, just finished school, doing an internship. Very attractive, nice body, maybe a little too skinny if anything. But a solid 9 in my book. We chatted before, but schedules never meshed, now she is texting me again. But she has her internship on Friday, so can't meet up. But she does ask me for cash to pay for some licensing exams she has to take. It sounds like a legit request but I explain that I can't forward her money considering we haven't met and it's been impossible to arrange anything so far so why should I be confident that next week or the week after we are going to be able to do it? She has no transportation of own and apparently cannot borrow a friends or family members car. Haven't heard from her since.

POT18-Just starting chatting with her on like Wednesday. 18, white, a few extra pounds (I seem to be king of this type), cute face. Lives with BF, not sure how I feel about that. She lives about 50 minutes from me, no car We chat a little, and I went tosee her on Friday AM. She has an appt. We talk a little, play cards, then make out like a couple of teenagers. She says she is on her period, not sure if I believed it but didn't push further. We hung out for about hour and a half. I actually left without any contribution but we did talk about buying her some boots she liked when I came up next. I will see her again and start being generous.

UTR. Chatted with on POF, 20 AA, looks like a nice curvy but fit body. She was very upfront about what she wanted in exchange for companionship. Maybe more a pro but I couldn't find her on any pro sites so I dunno for sure. Since my 18 year old above did not drain me of my energy, I try to hook up with her. I suggested a time. She say how about 20 minutes from now. I say I can't, I am about 50 minutes from you. She says maybe she can wait. I try contacting once I am back in town, no answer. Later she said her phone died, we could reschedule. Not sure what to think but I will likely try again just to see what she is all about.

POT19 -- White, pretty, no body pic but I think she is probably average build. Text for a short while. Its very weird, we grew up in the same town and actually lived on the same street, albeit 3 decades apart. Chat seems to go well, a lot of kidding back and forth. I tell her it's getting late but would love to talk more. She seems very interested. But she has not responding to my texts since.

Meanwhile, my original SB emails me saying her friend who she had previously said would do a threesome with us was in dire straits and needed money. The email made it sound like her friend (who is very pretty) wanted in on some action. I say I am interested and to text me. Like an hour and a half later she finally texts me but it is abundantly clear that it would just be original SB and she wanted way to much. I ignored the texts and then email her the next day saying "What happened, never heard from you".

Anyway, at least it's never dull.[/QUOTE]POT24 was testing you. Since you refused her request, she's ignoring you now. Get rid of that one. If I was asked that I would have told her to pay for her own damn books. Just saying. Especially since you didn't meet her.

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2278035]You can pull the 19-20 yo's. No doubt. I'm 60. Living proof. If it weren't for the members postings on this board I wouldn't have even tried but now I have a regular 20 yo co-ed (just turned 20 in Aug) and have enjoyed a 19 and several lower 20's. Have to work at it but it's there. I wish I were still mid 40's LOL.[/QUOTE]60? I'm truly impressed. All I seem to be pulling at the moment are mid-30's -40's flakes. I definitely need to work on my game. You all are right though, it is a numbers game. I have begun "mass-mailings" and have started to get more responses.

Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.

[QUOTE=VaGuy68;2278458]Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.[/QUOTE]It's not you. This morning I was speaking to an AA girl. 15 minutes into our chat, she tells me that she's not really looking for a SD, what she really wants is a BF, and now that even we've only been texting for a couple hours and haven't met in person, she is now dead set that I am the perfect BF for her.

But yes, every AA girl I've ever spoken to or received intro letters from is definitely more aggressive about their pursuit of you than any other race of women.

[QUOTE=RubberyMan;2277782]So, invite them to the M&G on a definite "no money or sex" meeting where you will tell them all about something they seem to be curious about. [/QUOTE]I just used your technique on an extremely reluctant girl this morning. She was all the more so over the fact that I told her I fuck a variety of girls. But thats the same thing she is curious about. The reason I tell these girls what I do is that it gets rid of the traditional BF seekers and attracts the curious. These girls have all had sex but not the kind of sex they fantasize about. And its the only hot button issue I really care about. But I used your "definitely no money or sex" phrase verbatim. She claims she hasn't had sex in a year.

20 AA slim and trim. Another 7/9 which seems to be my sweet spot.

[QUOTE=RubberyMan;2277782]When I see them making the exit sounds[/QUOTE]This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

I have some theories. Obviously some are just not attracted, I get that. But my current batting average is worse than with the civvies, so something is not adding up. I might come across as lacking self-confidence by trying to be nice. I might come across as needy by not laying down what I expect. Maybe they need little hints like "How would you show your daddy if you liked the date? Or "What last impression do you want to make? Should I act like a peer, like a father, or like a boss?

SM.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2278670]This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

[/QUOTE]You're either not building enough comfort with them during the date, or you've just had bad luck and picked girls that are really unsure and shy about the whole sugar thing. Try this. Next time you're in the car with the girl, just look at her and simply say "Would you like to kiss me?" It's straight forward enough to progress things without coming across creepy. If she says agrees, gently touch her cheek and proceed to kiss her. If she says no, or she isn't sure yet, just tell her that you understand and maybe she just needs more time to get comfortable with you. At that point, it's up to you whether or not you want to set up a second date or cut her loose.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2278805]You're either not building enough comfort with them during the date, or you've just had bad luck and picked girls that are really unsure and shy about the whole sugar thing. Try this. Next time you're in the car with the girl, just look at her and simply say "Would you like to kiss me?" It's straight forward enough to progress things without coming across creepy. If she says agrees, gently touch her cheek and proceed to kiss her. If she says no, or she isn't sure yet, just tell her that you understand and maybe she just needs more time to get comfortable with you. At that point, it's up to you whether or not you want to set up a second date or cut her loose.[/QUOTE]If I'm in a car or anywhere private with a girl for more than 5 minutes and we aren't kissing or touching. It's game over. I've done it the other way and the amount of potential awkwardness you may have to get over, to just get back to where you were supposed to be in the beginning, is usually more than I am willing to deal with. This is a generalization. But I once read that a woman knows within a few minutes if she is willing to fuck you or not. But being willing and doing it are two different things. And that's where having game really begins.

I used to sales train quite a bit. I would sometimes train groups. I would tell them "Hey, I can give you everything I know and you could still fail. You know why? Because there is one thing I can never give you and thats a personality". (outright and nervous laughter from the crowd). "But you know what? You know who you are and you need to be that person and no one else (unless you're an actor). And you know why people like you, so when you find that person who does, spend all your time with them, and don't worry about the people that don't." You can fuck any girl for a price (because every girl has their price), but you cant make someone like you for a million dollars.

In my case my natural persona is to be a dominant daddy figure. So I only search out naughty little girls that need their daddy. But I try to pre-screen and pre-qualify them as much as is needed prior to meeting them. Many will just tell me upfront that we are not a match. Good thing I asked. And because of the sugar, some girls will lie and not be who I am looking for (but due to all the effort just to meet them, and being a horny fool I may fuck them once or a few times anyway).

If you are worried about your game just pursue someone you think is below your standard and work your way up. Or you could only date girls you are super attracted to physically. Let them know they are exactly what you are looking for in either case. That's probably the easiest way to get rolling. Many moons ago I was a membership salesman at Great Expectations. We used to tell clueless people that statistically they would have to go on about 20 dates to meet the right person. I believe that's true even if you aren't clueless. But that's not to say you couldn't fuck a few of them along the way till you strike real gold.

Game is a combo of looks, personality, and confidence. IMHO the last is most important. These girls want to be told what to do and how to do it since they are already in the game. A few will chicken out but might reenter after a cooling off period. Just let them know that you intend to take them to bed and the only question is when and where.

A favorite trick of mine is massage. When we are talking I ask if they like massage, and of course they all do. I tell them I am really talented and will give them a professional one, which I know enough about to do very well. In the car or restaurant I will grab their hand and massage them in a non sexual way. That usually makes them curious enough to try me out. I tell them we can get a room, and if all they want is a massage we won't go further. They all go further. Massage is a great way to relax them, examine their body in detail, and move on to sensual moves easily and naturally. If they slam their legs together when you are working the Glut area as a prelude to massaging the vulva then you know you have some more work to do. Usually when I stroke their breast and nipple arrea I can see their breathing quicken and eyes flutter. When you stroke the butt and slip down to hit the labia they usually spread their legs a little to let you get in a little further, eventually to allow a finger to slide inside. Then game over. Your pants should be coming down with one hand at this time. There are some good Porn sites that demonstrate sensual massage techniques and how that can morph into fucking.

SlowMo,

It is hard to suggest what to do without seeing you in operation. Even if we were in your local, it is hard to have someone sit in on your interviews. .

So, here is something from way out in left field, but which I have plenty of experience with.

1). You need to like Asian spinners and spanners.

2). You need to have a couple of weeks spare.

If the above do not apply, ignore the rest of this.

Then head off to Angeles City or Subic Bay in the Philippines. As someone who has been there regularly since the seventies, I can tell you the following:

1). It is NOT "point and click" like the lurid tabloids or IJM would have you believe.

2). The girls can and will refuse you, and they do. Often.

3). They do need money, however.

4). There are lots of them, and sooner or later you WILL be lucky, no matter how bad your game.

5). It is a conservative Catholic country, so if you give them the fantasy you are wooing them, they will often give you the fantasy of being you're honeymoon bride. .

6). In Angeles and Subic, there are lots of bars close to each other with lots of women in each. That means you don't have to arrange the M&G.

7). There are so many guys within the bars and they often arrive in groups, so if you have a wingman observing your MO it will no be noticed.

8). There are several good specialist boards for the Philippines. Not sure if I am allowed to post links, so I won't. Not hard to find.

However, the material point from the above is that Angeles and Subic are really a sugar bowl on training wheels where the m&g is already available in the bars, and so all you have to do is work on your game. However, I say again, these places are NOT point and click, ignore any site that says they are.

[blue]=============================================

Gents,

If you guys want to discuss traveling to international destinations to get laid, why don't you visit my International Sex Guide forum at:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info[/url]

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2278670]This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

I have some theories. Obviously some are just not attracted, I get that. But my current batting average is worse than with the civvies, so something is not adding up. I might come across as lacking self-confidence by trying to be nice. I might come across as needy by not laying down what I expect. Maybe they need little hints like "How would you show your daddy if you liked the date? Or "What last impression do you want to make? Should I act like a peer, like a father, or like a boss?

SM.[/QUOTE]Someone could write a book on this, and I am sure there are many. If you are ever ever ever in a car with a girl always go for the kiss asap. That should lead to some kind of makeout session. Assuming you get aroused, gently move her hand to your woodie. This is the highest form of praise. Because every girl wants to think she can get a guy hot in seconds (or minutes). If that works well, ask if she'd like to get a closer look. This is makeout 101. From this point it should just fall into place. And if it doesn't, just move on to the next one. But always take the lead. I always want to be accepted or rejected as fast as possible.

Most UTR's will move their hand there faster than you can move their hand there. LOL

[QUOTE=VaGuy68;2278458]60? I'm truly impressed. All I seem to be pulling at the moment are mid-30's -40's flakes. I definitely need to work on my game. You all are right though, it is a numbers game. I have begun "mass-mailings" and have started to get more responses.

Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.[/QUOTE]At least in my area the AA babies FAR outnumber the rest in the field.

Ok I re-did my profile and casted a wider net. FISH ON!

POT 1 21 yo very cute and slim. Wants to meet for coffee tomorrow. It's about a 45 min ride. Lives in a redneck town and has a kid. Seems nonchalant. UTR maybe?

POT 2 - 22 yo heavier than I usually go for but I'm a sucker (pun intended) for big tits. She just can't understand why guys on SA are asking her to go to the FC right away! She's not a prostitute and it makes her feel uncomfortable. I told her to never mind those nasty guys and we can chat about it over a M&G.

POT 3 - 35 yo athletic and very attractive. Travels a lot and looking for something every once in awhile. Right up my alley. Working on a M&G.

Finally a little action.

[QUOTE=JoeBlowDC;2279585]At least in my area the AA babies FAR outnumber the rest in the field.[/QUOTE]In L. A. They are 10% of the population and 30% of the profiles.

The newest member on SA in my area is currently serving time in prison. But don't worry, she'll be out in 6 months. Apparently, her aunt is running the account for her. Based on her pics, I'm pretty sure she might try to shank me during our M&G.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2278670]This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.
[/QUOTE]It's not easily described in my case. I would say that what I refer to as "my game" is probably about 90% psychology and just putting general experience with women into practice. I decided I didn't like women being in charge of me sometime around the 8th grade when I had an unruly GF who was a skilled manipulator. I think the hard knocks of that experience forced me to focus on what worked and what didn't. Then with every subsequent girl I just looked at it as a learning experience. I still do. The rules change over time so I'm still constantly figuring women out, but there are of course some fundamentals of how they think that remain pretty much constant.

That understanding of how they think, what makes them tick, etc. Is what determines everything that comes out of your mouth, all of your body language, etc. And ultimately, it determines whether you get laid or not -- that's true of the sugar world or any kind of dating.

Yes, looks matter, and they can give you an edge or put you at a disadvantage. But they mainly matter to attract them to the initial meeting. She already knows if she would fuck you or not by looking at your pic, and since she showed up for the M&G then it means it's possible. Possible and guaranteed are two different things of course. She can vote "yes" based on your pic, but decide to back out or pull a GPS attitude or whatever based on your behavior after you meet.

I can't really put together a rulebook for what I do, because it's different in every situation. Being able to adapt the conversation to an individual is just a social skill that takes practice. It may come easier for some than others, but you can't really develop it without practicing it. I had plenty of failures along the way, everyone does.

So, to be honest, there is no magic to getting them in the FC. Usually around the type dinner / drinks are over (or whatever we are doing, maybe at a club), I usually just ask point blank if they're coming back to my room with me. Sometimes I don't even have to ask, it's just a given that they will follow me back. But most of the psychological stuff I mentioned has already taken place by that time. I'm "operating" so to speak the whole time, from the initial e-mail where we're figuring everything out to the M&G where we are getting to know each other a little bit before we fuck.

So, for that reason I'm inclined to think that the fact you see the F&see as a next step in the sequence might be the problem. I see it more or less as the reward or payoff for a successful working of the game, it's not something that in itself needs effort exerted toward it. Maybe if you view the entire process of meeting (from initial text / mail to the M&G itself) as the real work to be done, the FC reward will come more naturally?

My friend's approach is somewhat different from what has been described.

Just to clarify, I am not questioning what has been already suggested. It may work for some people, just not what he is doing. After all, some great players (I am not going to mention names, we all know who they are!) are just better at this game than the rest of us. Tiger Woods certainly knows how to play golf, but what works for him, may not work for everybody.

First of all, my friend never pushes for the FC. He goes on dates as one would IRL and acts as if he has infinite patience. So far no one asked him to get reimbursed for the dinner and drinks and so he always acts like this is what is expected one, two or even three dates, if necessary. So far, the longest he had to wait for FC was after Date #3.

He says doing this gets easier (mentally) once you already have a couple of relationships going. He tells me he had been on dates where he thought "maybe it is better if this does not work I cannot really afford to add one more to my rotation". However, so far he did not have to "dismiss" anyone he liked. He says thanks God for the "maintenance" week this way rotations get a bit easier to manage. He tells me the subject of sugar normally comes at the end of the first date. He normally does a "sign-up" bonus where the first date is compensated better then the rest.

I think this has already been said, but I will repeat. The fact that an SB is pretty content with seeing you the same way the pro would for a couple hours in the hotel (and maybe an occasional dinner) does not make her a pro. Many SBs (genuinely and sincerely) are not interested to make you their boyfriend. Many of them I'the say the best, honest and low-drama, have a deeply routed conflict about doing this and compartmentalize like crazy. The simplest way most of them approach it would be by completely shutting you out from the rest of their lives. You are just "that thing they do" once a week wild, forbidden and somewhat shameful thing.

As for one thinking that they "also enjoy sex". Well, not so fast. They know and would tell you that much they can go to a club, select the handsomest young dude and take him home. And they are not imagining that, they can (my friend would not date anyone who cannot, why bother? The reason they are with you is because of sugar. Do not get me wrong, they will not be with you if they did not find you attractive, did not like talking to you, resented sex with you or any such. It is just that they can fairly easily get the rest of it elsewhere. But not the sugar. Again, I am only talking about the cream of the crop, early twenties and gorgeous looking.

POT 1 - drove the 45 miles through miserable traffic. Was a little late but emailed her prior. No show, no response. Wish I could have that 2 hrs back!

POT 2 - changed her profile and now only wants $ for pics!! WTF I can see pics for free on Redtube. Told her good luck with that and if she wants a more "personal" relationship then give me a shout.

POT 3 - can't get together until after Thanksgiving.

The search goes on.

JPs's comments are true, we each have our own techniques. And the technique might have to vary based on each Pot. Here's an example.

Pot #1 I am working, is a 22 yr old Hispanic hottie 8/7 who is having 2nd thoughts about the nature of our hobby. She desperately needs money and thought she could suck it up and "do it " with a stranger. She signed off saying she can't come see me, have sex, and get money. Well call it what it is, these babies are rationalizing what they are doing, which is getting paid to have sex with a stranger. They do it all the time with random hookups at college or where ever, but not so clinically for money. So we have to help them to the finish line. Here's how I am managing her. The jury is still out so I will let you know if it works. I wrote back saying that I will not remove my clothing, but would like to pleasure her in the privacy of the FC. If she wants me to I will be glad to complete the service but will guarantee that I will not attempt to fuck her without her asking first. This gives me the opportunity to inspect her thoroughly (remember the massage technique?) and see if she allows fingering and oral. My guess is if it gets this far she will go the whole way. In her mind she is not coming to get paid for sex. After all, we know these college girls don't consider oral as sex. Hopefully this strategy will work for this baby.

Pot #2 This girl looks like a buttoned up 20 something She is actually a classy looking UTR. 26 white 8/8 in a fresh scrubbed outdoorsy way. She came right back with an offer to meet for $ with a kicker added for a trip to mr stinky. So we know what she is, we just have to determine the price. There is no game required. It takes all kinds.

JPS -tell it like it is Brother. Your "friend" is not going to protect you from some LE sting. No Fed is looking to catch you telling your story. It is all fiction anyway, isn't it. " I was just bragging your honor, none of that really happened. I am a novelist entertaining my friends " . Use the 1st person, it is OK.