"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2260945]Good tip! Since I like playing bare back it is always a risk. I try to maintain distance so that they don'why know how to find me. And I try to make sure they are on BC, but who knows about that?

A girl I was last seeing over 1 year ago wrote that she had a baby which was conceived while I was seeing her. She said she and her then estranged husband got it on trying to rekindle the marriage and it did not work out. She never tried to say it was mine so I can only hope that it isn't and she will not come looking.[/QUOTE]I know for a fact that many girls will intentionally try and trap you! Even girls who originally are not that type can change when they get emotionally involved with you and start seeing a great future with you. If you are a nice guy, even though older, not bad looking, meet her emotional needs and make open ended promises, there is a good chance she might start missing her pills. A tale tale sign is if she starts mentioning things like how cute the kid might look if you ever had one. Etc, etc. Be careful!

I have seen the most career oriented college bound, liberal SB's try and get knocked up.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2261398]Those on SA know that the whole membership payment system is weird at best. From my experience, you can't re-up until your previous membership runs out, which means that you go dark (ie not premium) for at least a little bit. So recently I ran out and didn't get around to re-upping for 4 days. When I finally did, I got something like 20 contacts within the first 24 hours. Mind you, this is with the same profile as before where I had to be a lot more pro-active. I will grant you that three quarters of the contacts were from hare brained chicks from out of state or out of the country, but there are about 5 potential ones in there. Including one I spoke to on the phone tonight with the hottest body I've seen on SA yet. Still a long way to go on that front thought.

Anyone else receive a flood of messages after updating their membership?[/QUOTE]I can't say I have had a flood but twice I have let my membership (two different profiles) expire and noticed an uptick in messages while it was expired. The strangest one is when the oldest profile (expired, I used different email addys for both) hit me with a message from a MILF in OBX. I couldn't read the message since the account was expired. I tried searching the profile using my active account and it didn't show up. Hmm. Not sure why one account would show available profiles in a geography when another wouldn't. Fishy.

18 months into this adventure, and assuming I make it out unscathed, will have been the most mind-bending of my life.

I'm a monogamous SD (well, married, but only have one SB), and I'm as sure as one can be in this situation that she is exclusive to me. So I'm not one of the superstars with a pipeline of POTS and M&G's to tend to. Too much time and energy: juggling a family and even one SB is enough for me.

The sex has ranged from mind-blowing, to almost-scary-adventurous, yet sometimes routine. Even routine is fine with me since 3-4 hours of non-stop attention to the little head from a killer spinner body is something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. At the same time she is sweet, forthright, hardworking, and supportive of my struggles with the daily turbulence in my household. There's been drama, but for the most part it's normal angst of a girl that age, with dollop of issues coming from a somewhat f*cked-up family situation. I have also gotten my share of personal reward in being able to mentor her on many fronts.

At the beginning, before we built up a trust relationship, it was a typical arrangement: $$ per visit. There were some occasions (like an all-too-rare overnight for example) where she refused the sugar. Then about six months ago there were a couple of financial crisis which made me throw caution to the wind and front her some significant sugar. At this point I cared too much to see her future getting trashed by something as simple as a cash flow jam, so out it went. I couched it as an advance, but also made it clear that even if we broke up the next day, I didn't expect to see the sugar back. She was deeply grateful, as the advance kept her in school and avoided some other fiscal meltdowns. With the assumption that the original arrangement was still in force, I roughly figured she was advanced for at least the rest of the year, so at that point it stopped flowing, and there were no complaints or further discussion.

Recently she mentioned a cash flow problem that perhaps I could help with. It was minor, but made me realize that we never really discussed where things stood. On our next visit I gave her enough to cover the expense plus some extra, which she was a little surprised about. Turns out she had only mentioned it since she wasn't really clear how / when the financial part would work going forward. We had a talk later, to make sure we were on the same page. I had come around to the notion that I could provide sugar as major expenses came along, since the pay-for-play was getting a little awkward. Over the summer I'd been steadily skimming enough to take a bite out of the next round of school expenses by the end of this year, and figured that's what I'd use it for when the time came. When I mentioned that she insisted that she was probably in ok shape until mid-2015, and as we talked the strong implication was that she really didn't expect or even want sugar until she had a concrete need for it.

Which took me aback.

Dream come true, right? Well for me it tested a lot of the compartmentalization that I think a lot of us have to do in the bowl, especially if married. The sugar aspect is the source of a lot of discomfort for many. But at the same time, it's the main differentiator between a sugar and a civvie relationship. For me, a civvie relationship is out of my comfort zone since it's more like an affair and therefore a more direct threat to the relationship with the SO. A sugar relationship, for all the balancing act it represents, is more of a business arrangement than a relationship.

That said, this specific relationship is not a threat in the traditional sense. I'm almost 50, she's 20. We wouldn't last a month if we spent any amount of "normal" time together. I'm aware of this in a very real sense, for her perhaps it's a little more abstract. She's also aware that as challenging as it is, I'm not going to abandon my family. Much of her admiration comes from my dedication to the keeping the household intact. So it's not like running off with her is a possibility.

New territory for sure, never a dull moment.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2261561]18 months into this adventure, and assuming I make it out unscathed, will have been the most mind-bending of my life.

I'm a monogamous SD (well, married, but only have one SB), and I'm as sure as one can be in this situation that she is exclusive to me. So I'm not one of the superstars with a pipeline of POTS and M&G's to tend to. Too much time and energy: juggling a family and even one SB is enough for me.

.[/QUOTE]Good for you Walrus, sounds like one of those successful relationships. You took a chance fronting her a significant amount but she is evidently honest and normal. Sometimes you have to take a risk which we all do. Most of the time we lose advancing money, but there is no absolute in this crazy business. I have never won that game myself. Most use the emergency ploy to increase their take home pay, and never intend to repay in service. My former FB was a classic example. There was always some dire problem and after a number of months she was into me for $$ ,just $50 here,$50 there. I asked to reduce her fee each visit but she kept ahead of me by concocting a crisis. I fell for it too many times until I finally stopped. Sometimes a good piece is not worth the effort.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2262002]Good for you Walrus, sounds like one of those successful relationships. You took a chance fronting her a significant amount but she is evidently honest and normal. Sometimes you have to take a risk which we all do. Most of the time we lose advancing money, but there is no absolute in this crazy business. I have never won that game myself. Most use the emergency ploy to increase their take home pay, and never intend to repay in service. My former FB was a classic example. There was always some dire problem and after a number of months she was into me for $$ ,just $50 here,$50 there. I asked to reduce her fee each visit but she kept ahead of me by concocting a crisis. I fell for it too many times until I finally stopped. Sometimes a good piece is not worth the effort.[/QUOTE]All money spent is money spent. It's an investment. Sometimes the ROI is better than others. Not all investments turn a profit. The best thing is to have a diversified portfolio (of girls that is) comprised of both high and low risk ventures. One reason I am so strict ($) with some of these girls (the new ones) is that I know I am going to have unexpected expenses with my regulars (especially in an exclusive relationship). You can't really see someone for 6 months or more and not get dinged. On another note. After reading countless posts in my area it appears if I want a never ending stream of 9+ hotty UTR girls (and I don't think SB's are any different) the going rate is $$ just for the girl. For now this will be impossible for me. Maybe next year.

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2261546]I can't say I have had a flood but twice I have let my membership (two different profiles) expire and noticed an uptick in messages while it was expired. The strangest one is when the oldest profile (expired, I used different email addys for both) hit me with a message from a MILF in OBX. I couldn't read the message since the account was expired. I tried searching the profile using my active account and it didn't show up. Hmm. Not sure why one account would show available profiles in a geography when another wouldn't. Fishy.[/QUOTE]More than fishy. My hypothesis is that those are fake accounts SA creates and uses to entice SDs to re-up. That explains why so many messages are from far away SBs. They know your odds of identifying them as fake is low. Already 3 of the 20+ "people" who reached out to me have cancelled profiles. Just be aware of it.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2262373]More than fishy. My hypothesis is that those are fake accounts SA creates and uses to entice SDs to re-up. That explains why so many messages are from far away SBs. They know your odds of identifying them as fake is low. Already 3 of the 20+ "people" who reached out to me have cancelled profiles. Just be aware of it.[/QUOTE]Mine just expired two days ago. I've been used to receiving one or two legit inquiries a day. Post expiration I'm suddenly hit with several kisses from America and beyond! LOL. My favourite Kiss is the "I think you're handsome" note. Since I don't use a photo avatar I know the kiss is bogus and move along. LOL.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2262373]More than fishy. My hypothesis is that those are fake accounts SA creates and uses to entice SDs to re-up. That explains why so many messages are from far away SBs. They know your odds of identifying them as fake is low. Already 3 of the 20+ "people" who reached out to me have cancelled profiles. Just be aware of it.[/QUOTE]I noticed something similar on SD4 Me. If I let several days pass without signing in, when I eventually sign in, shortly afterwards, I get a flurry of pm's from people an unrealistic distance away. I am convinced these are enticements generated automatically. I have not seen the same thing from SA.

RB.

When it rains it pours. I am always looking but mentally I really have a, I don't give a shit attitude about it all right now. Also to make things a little more chill for my regulars I have started wearing condoms with any random girl I meet. I don't really like it but I get it.

I still miss my x but I am dealing with it. Girls can smell neediness and desperation from a mile away, something I have very little of these days. At the moment I am so physically drained. These girls will take it out of you. But no matter how tired I feel one day I seem to rebound the next.

Plus the flu and cold season came a little early, that can really put a damper on things. Just rambling. When I have some new pics to post I will. I am trying one thing at the moment with just one girl. Which was to get into a convo with no talk of sugar. Something I never do but it just took off in that direction. In the past that tactic has always backfired on me. I really really just don't care right now. So maybe its a good time to experiment.

I lost a girl Monday shooting my mouth off after she flaked. I could have acted like it was OK and rescheduled her, but instead I told her I had a back up date. She didn't like that. Oh well, next. So instead I went out with a chinese girl I met at a party a few weeks ago. She was the bartender. I asked her at the party if she had ever tried sugar dating and she said no, but she gave me her number. On the date the chemistry just wasn't there for me and I am sure she picked up on that. It was kind of hard not to as I was at half mast. Never a good first date. I apologized it was so bad. I might txt her again. She was cute and sexy but my mind was elsewhere.

Last nites date was my 3rd date with a new college cuite. She agreed to the $.2 but then tried to hit me up for mare at the end. I refused. She got out of the car without saying goodbye. I,ll fix it later if I can. Her skills are excellent and worth the extra effort.

Lets see some pics guys. I love pics and a lot of the girls do too. They all secretly (or not so secretly) want to be little porn star princesses.

Having spent some time in the back page escort section, I see less value in doing the sugar dating thing.

You can get a pretty cute girl for between $160-$200 an hour.

As this is about the price you are paying for your sugar date, you're not getting a discount unless they stay the night.

But you still incur higher time costs: messaging new girls, dealing with BS, sometimes having to date, etc.

I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;2262780]I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.[/QUOTE]The short answer is that I don't believe the math to be that straightforward, and a lot of it is what you expect to get out of the deal. For the longest time I my needs were (mostly) met with CL / BP, though that can be sufficiently hit-and-miss to incur overhead just like the bowl does. When you find a good provider that helps, but it's still work to get there.

These days I'll occasionally scan BP, mostly out of habit, but nothing I see there is even remotely tempting compared to visits with my SB.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;2262780]Having spent some time in the back page escort section, I see less value in doing the sugar dating thing.

You can get a pretty cute girl for between $160-$200 an hour.

As this is about the price you are paying for your sugar date, you're not getting a discount unless they stay the night.

But you still incur higher time costs: messaging new girls, dealing with BS, sometimes having to date, etc.

I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.[/QUOTE]SB's can be low to very low mileage girls. Even celibate or close to it when you meet them. If that doesn't matter to you then yes it could be easier to get a good looking girl on BP for a comparable price. And if GFE is important to you then BP would be a little tougher as well. All true SB's are GFE.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;2262780]Having spent some time in the back page escort section, I see less value in doing the sugar dating thing.

You can get a pretty cute girl for between $160-$200 an hour.

As this is about the price you are paying for your sugar date, you're not getting a discount unless they stay the night.

But you still incur higher time costs: messaging new girls, dealing with BS, sometimes having to date, etc.

I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.[/QUOTE]What I meant to say was.

SB's can be low to very low mileage girls. Even celibate or close to it when you meet them. If that doesn't matter to you then yes it could be easier to get a good looking girl on BP for a comparable price. But if GFE is important to you then BP would be a little tougher. All true SB's are GFE. Something I think all the guys here need to have to be happy.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2263105]What I meant to say was.

SB's can be low to very low mileage girls. Even celibate or close to it when you meet them. If that doesn't matter to you then yes it could be easier to get a good looking girl on BP for a comparable price. But if GFE is important to you then BP would be a little tougher. All true SB's are GFE. Something I think all the guys here need to have to be happy.[/QUOTE]It is much more than just the need to Fukk. I want that GFE and perhaps a little beyond, and I'm willing to spend more to get it.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;2262780]Having spent some time in the back page escort section, I see less value in doing the sugar dating thing.

You can get a pretty cute girl for between $160-$200 an hour.

As this is about the price you are paying for your sugar date, you're not getting a discount unless they stay the night.

But you still incur higher time costs: messaging new girls, dealing with BS, sometimes having to date, etc.

I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.[/QUOTE]My experience with BP in my area is that most are HMGs (high mileage girls) **UTRs at best and escorts more likely. I prefer low mileage to celibate which is more likely on the Sugar sites.

My 10/10 19 yr old has grown a conscience and bailed from the sex scene. She is still on the site but swears that she is on money for no sex. Good luck with that! More likely she is still looking for somebody more suitable. Too bad because she is a 4'10" spinner I could have a load of fun with.

My SB#1 is only seeing me I'm pretty sure but I need some variety.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;2262780]Having spent some time in the back page escort section, I see less value in doing the sugar dating thing.

You can get a pretty cute girl for between $160-$200 an hour.

As this is about the price you are paying for your sugar date, you're not getting a discount unless they stay the night.

But you still incur higher time costs: messaging new girls, dealing with BS, sometimes having to date, etc.

I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.[/QUOTE]If all you want is a quick encounter than sure, BP might be ok depending on your locale. But my experience is that a SB experience is much, much better. First off, I am pretty confident that my SBs have not been sleeping with 10 guys a day 360 days out of the year, so that's a plus. Second, SB encounters usually last a minimum of an hour, sometimes several hours to overnight. To me that sure beats 20 minutes in a smoked filled hotel. Thirdly, because of point #1, I am going to engage in activity with my SBs that I would never do with a BP girl. And I have been a little surprised by just what things girls will do. Fourth, SBs are fun to talk to you. I enjoy chatting with them, I can says things to them I can't tell anybody else. It's like going to confessional. And what's best, they don't judge you.

Over the last year, I have had a few FWBs mixed in with the SBs. Even though SBs get sugar and FWBs do not, I think I still prefer the SBs. You just have to find the right ones, who relish there roles and truly like older men.

My hat off to those who can actually make something happen. I'm striking out big time. I must be doing something wrong.

I might have mentioned that date #2 went well with a cute girl (no sugar involved). Via email she agreed to the FC, but it's been a week and so sign of a future meeting, so that's not looking up.

A few days ago I did a Skype convo and 2 phones with new girls. The skype girl was cute, nice and upbeat on Skype, but then disappeared, so I can only assume I'm not her type, which is fine. The first phone girl has been all excited to meet, which we had scheduled for yesterday. 2 hours before I hit the road she changed her mind and decided she didn't want to do it. Girl #3 has been very forward, so I texted her when the flake fell through. She said she could M&G in 2 hours, but at the appointed time she was MIA. She later claimed that her phone died. She'd like to reschedule, which I might do because her pictures are easily the hottest I've seen to date. But I don't hold much hope there either.

I had three more I was communicating with and just trying to line up a date with. All three went quiet during Halloween. Meh.

This is way, way more work than trawling CL / BP, for absolutely zero return to date. Granted it's been very inexpensive in money, but my time, man, my time. I have no idea how you guys do it.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2263678]My hat off to those who can actually make something happen. I'm striking out big time. I must be doing something wrong.

I might have mentioned that date #2 went well with a cute girl (no sugar involved). Via email she agreed to the FC, but it's been a week and so sign of a future meeting, so that's not looking up.

A few days ago I did a Skype convo and 2 phones with new girls. The skype girl was cute, nice and upbeat on Skype, but then disappeared, so I can only assume I'm not her type, which is fine. The first phone girl has been all excited to meet, which we had scheduled for yesterday. 2 hours before I hit the road she changed her mind and decided she didn't want to do it. Girl #3 has been very forward, so I texted her when the flake fell through. She said she could M&G in 2 hours, but at the appointed time she was MIA. She later claimed that her phone died. She'd like to reschedule, which I might do because her pictures are easily the hottest I've seen to date. But I don't hold much hope there either.

I had three more I was communicating with and just trying to line up a date with. All three went quiet during Halloween. Meh.

This is way, way more work than trawling CL / BP, for absolutely zero return to date. Granted it's been very inexpensive in money, but my time, man, my time. I have no idea how you guys do it.[/QUOTE]Don't give up yet. In almost three months since I discovered playing in the sugar bowl I have had my share of flakes but the rewards of the good ones make me think if I ever won the lottery I would spend the rest of my life playing the sugar daddy game.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2262706]When it rains it pours. I am always looking but mentally I really have a, I don't give a shit attitude about it all right now. Also to make things a little more chill for my regulars I have started wearing condoms with any random girl I meet. I don't really like it but I get it.

I still miss my x but I am dealing with it. Girls can smell neediness and desperation from a mile away, something I have very little of these days. At the moment I am so physically drained. These girls will take it out of you. But no matter how tired I feel one day I seem to rebound the next.

Plus the flu and cold season came a little early, that can really put a damper on things. Just rambling. When I have some new pics to post I will. I am trying one thing at the moment with just one girl. Which was to get into a convo with no talk of sugar. Something I never do but it just took off in that direction. In the past that tactic has always backfired on me. I really really just don't care right now. So maybe its a good time to experiment.

I lost a girl Monday shooting my mouth off after she flaked. I could have acted like it was OK and rescheduled her, but instead I told her I had a back up date. She didn't like that. Oh well, next. So instead I went out with a chinese girl I met at a party a few weeks ago. She was the bartender. I asked her at the party if she had ever tried sugar dating and she said no, but she gave me her number. On the date the chemistry just wasn't there for me and I am sure she picked up on that. It was kind of hard not to as I was at half mast. Never a good first date. I apologized it was so bad. I might txt her again. She was cute and sexy but my mind was elsewhere.

Last nites date was my 3rd date with a new college cuite. She agreed to the $.2 but then tried to hit me up for mare at the end. I refused. She got out of the car without saying goodbye. I,ll fix it later if I can. Her skills are excellent and worth the extra effort.

Lets see some pics guys. I love pics and a lot of the girls do too. They all secretly (or not so secretly) want to be little porn star princesses.[/QUOTE]I don't have any completely fresh pics but HG deserves some fun for all of his contributions. Here is a sampling of some of my sugar bowl girls over the last couple of months.

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2263703]Don't give up yet. In almost three months since I discovered playing in the sugar bowl I have had my share of flakes but the rewards of the good ones make me think if I ever won the lottery I would spend the rest of my life playing the sugar daddy game.[/QUOTE]How was # 2 ? The blond.

My little friend paid some modest tuition money, learned a lesson, wants to share it with those here.

My little friend came to believe his SB had serious financial issues making her turn to this life and dancing on a pole.

She always seemed anhedonic at the FC.

Her need for cash was insatiable and the tales told to try to get more sugar were impressive: court dates, fines, got to stay out of jail, an advance NOW, an advance tonight.

The image presented to the world was that of young college student, the reality was much different.

My suggestion to those that are in the SD world: Learn about Heroin. Learn how it can be ingested, what the signs of a problem are, learn the lies that get told to get more money.

Then choose how you play the game.

Don't get taken.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2263780]How was # 2 ? The blond.[/QUOTE]Pretty girl but at $$$ was only a M&G for me. Left the door open, maybe she'll reconnect at a more reasonable number if she doesn't get any takers.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2263678]My hat off to those who can actually make something happen. I'm striking out big time. I must be doing something wrong.

<snip>
I had three more I was communicating with and just trying to line up a date with. All three went quiet during Halloween. Meh.

This is way, way more work than trawling CL / BP, for absolutely zero return to date. Granted it's been very inexpensive in money, but my time, man, my time. I have no idea how you guys do it.[/QUOTE]The numbers game is overbalanced far more than you would expect, at first. Do not be surprised to talk to 20-50 potentials (of which 1/4 will actually move to the meet and greet, at best,) and to have sent out 4-5 times as many messages, and only find one that's reliable and worth keeping. When you do find one, your goal is to manage to negotiate a budget that's affordable, because, face it, you can hire 20 yo hotties at an hourly rate, and have plenty of variety without the time investment, dinners, and general drama. The bonus of a SB is that the few that are reliable tend to stay reliable (unless you move them from "per-visit" to "allowance", at which point you will find a sudden and sharp downturn in their availability for many of them. Sometimes correctable, sometimes just a lesson to move on,) and you actually develop a comfortable quasi-relationship with them, with no clock watching whatsoever. It's par for the course for them to be willing and happy to stay overnight with you, with no thought of extra $ on top.

I do tend to stay friends with my relatively few ex-SBs, including those who were encountered in more traditional ways than hitting a site (I. E. Identifying potentials in "normal" situations, and making sure they get the message that you're open for some mutually beneficial discussions, without coming off as too creepy,) and have occasionally revisited them for short spans of time, to satisfy an itch. Another option is regular dating sites. A lot of the girls you see on sugar sites will have regular dating profiles, as well. Never admit you saw them on an SD site, and you can sometimes let yourself be "lured in" to a mutually beneficial relationship. However, I have found that SBs tend to have a shelf life of about 6 months to a year. I admire HG for his ability to maintain them over longer periods, but perhaps his extreme variety helps him to keep the requisite amount of distance from any given one of them. As long as they're still trying to get your attention and your time, and you're fitting them into your schedule (NOT vice-versa) they seem to last for a while. If you let their service slip, though, you need to remember that this is, by nature, transactional, and either their service needs to improve, or you need to find a replacement (and you'll find it useful if you keep on looking, even if your frequency of hunting goes down a lot.) Never buy into sob stories, but do expect that every so often one will hit you up for some random emergency. And see above for the same effect as moving to "allowance". If they feel that they owe you, they're less likely to show up than if they feel that things are balanced.

But, back to the topic at hand: yes, they flake. A lot. Constantly. No call / no show is the most frustrating, closely followed by "I'm on the way, but I'll be just a few minutes / stuck in traffic / babysitter hasn't shown up" etc. The first requirement I have is finding one that doesn't flake, before I consider whether we should be doing anything more than a one-off. The second requirement (also mandatory) is that I find them attractive and interesting enough to continue. Sadly, the overlap between those two requirements leaves an extremely small range of girls.

Disclaimer: My odds are based on having average looks, and not a huge amount of cash to throw around. If you do better in looks or cash (even if you don't spend the cash on THEM, don't discount the effect of casually pulling up in your polished sportscar. Not flaunting, just making it clear that that's your norm,) you'll find a lot less flakiness, as they'll sometimes be aiming for the jackpot (I. E. The possibility of an LTR with you,) instead of aiming for a temporary lifestyle enhancer. For me, I just want to be their lifestyle enhancer. I get enough relationship BS already. .

Anyway, persevere, and know that it's not just you. I don't think anyone gets SB experience without dealing with absurd numbers of flakes and no-shows.

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2263877]Pretty girl but at $$$ was only a M&G for me. Left the door open, maybe she'll reconnect at a more reasonable number if she doesn't get any takers.[/QUOTE]Seriously, you are paying $$$ just for M&G?

[QUOTE=John252;2263821]My little friend paid some modest tuition money, learned a lesson, wants to share it with those here.

My little friend came to believe his SB had serious financial issues making her turn to this life and dancing on a pole.

She always seemed anhedonic at the FC.

Her need for cash was insatiable and the tales told to try to get more sugar were impressive: court dates, fines, got to stay out of jail, an advance NOW, an advance tonight.

The image presented to the world was that of young college student, the reality was much different.

My suggestion to those that are in the SD world: Learn about Heroin. Learn how it can be ingested, what the signs of a problem are, learn the lies that get told to get more money.

Then choose how you play the game.

Don't get taken.[/QUOTE]One girl off SA who periodically messages me, always very eager to get together and very suggestive, I believe has a drug problem. She is a pretty girl, but she texted me pics that seem to reveal a loss in weight. I hunted down her facebook page and her appearance has definitely changed in the last year. So I suspect H or pills have taken hold. This is why is always best to chat for a little and gather as much info about the girl as possible so you can do some online research. Another girl I found a couple mugshots but never could determine the exact reason for the arrests.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2264275]Seriously, you are paying $$$ just for M&G?[/QUOTE]Lord no, LOL. I paid for coffee. $$$ was what she wanted to go to the FC.

Success depends on:

1) looks.

2) game.

3) money thrown in.

4) availability.

All but #4 can be gotten around. So if you guys are fruetrated by your lack of success then look hard at which of these can be changed. For example, Hollywood, the Patron Saint of Sugaring, has (I suspect) #s 1,2, and 4 in action . He is monumentally successful and chooses to limit his donation( #3) because he can. On the other hand, an SD without looks or game can be successful by throwing a big number at the Pot. Can you imagine the response to your intro letter if you said you will give $1 K / meeting? They would be lining up to blow you.

I confess I have been struggling fellow Sugars. I am fortunate to have 1 & 2 . But my So is all over my ass and I can not go to Home Depot without a tail. It's not quite that bad but #s 3 &4 have suffered because my bank account is noticed, and my availability is severely limited. I am pretty much down to needing to hire hookers but I want a LMG (Low Mileage Girl) Can I have that? I am trying my brothers but the success rate in closing the deal has fallen to under 20 % . You have got to be available to date these SBs a little bit. That means go out in public and take them to dinner, throw some Benjamins around, maybe walk through Target (Chanel isn't even necessary) and buy a $35 sweater. They love you for that slice of normalcy.

So if you are skulking around the shadows trying to get a cute college girl to meet you in the notel and skip dinner, it isn't likely to happen. Just sayin '.

I started messaging a girl that had no pic on her profile. Never a good sign.

She was like mid thirties yet couldn't seem to have an even conversation with me via txt. Another bad sign.

Too many messages going back and forth. Another red flag.

Tried to flake on our M&G and reschedule. More bad news.

Finally sent me a pic that was fuzzy. A no no.

At this point I am like ok, it says in her profile that she was "slim and fit". I get her to meet me at a starbucks nearby. Within one minute I knew this was never going to happen. Talked to her for 20 minutes anyway just because I am a nice guy. Then she asked me the dreaded question (and this was after me sending her a P4P message) "so what exactly are you looking for?

Uhhhhhh, pussy? LOL. And I am sure I could have gotten it from her. But she wasn't that slim. I might except some thickness from an 18 year old but not from a 35 year old.

I need to stick to my rules. And only date 20 year olds. They seem to know what I want and don't ask a lot of stupid questions. I could do a hookup date later tonite with the UTR of the moment. Maybe tomorrow, right now I am gonna get a massage (a legit massage).

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2264275]Seriously, you are paying $$$ just for M&G?[/QUOTE]I think he meant she was wanting $$$ per date so things got put on pause after the M&G.

[QUOTE=Wnde8;2262780]

I suppose part of this is a preference thing, but from a pure monger perspective it seems to me going with the Backpage girls is much more efficient timewise and costwise.[/QUOTE]Mileage is a huge difference when it comes to who you want bb action from.

Also with the time spent with a SB, you can teach them to service you just as you like and cater to your wants and needs rather than asking what her "menu" is.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2264705]I think he meant she was wanting $$$ per date so things got put on pause after the M&G.

Mileage is a huge difference when it comes to who you want bb action from.

Also with the time spent with a SB, you can teach them to service you just as you like and cater to your wants and needs rather than asking what her "menu" is.[/QUOTE]Menus, rules, restrictions, condoms, clock watching, mileage. All for a little convenience?

It is so tempting to pay the $$ for a guaranteed hottie, that may have some real skills to boot. But there is no future in it. It's a revolving door that a lot of guys do prefer. I like regulars that are exclusive to me and take direction with a smile. And its not GFE, it's a part time real GF, and there is a difference. I am probably gonna treat myself to a some UTR or Pro hotties for xmas. But the mainstay has to be SB's.

I have talked pros into GFE sessions, but their heart isn't in it for the long term. Some are very sweet and nice and hope with a little extra effort they can turn you into a regular. And then they back down a little on the affection after a a few dates (or even one). Just my experience. But thats the difference on this thread. We are the 1 percenters of the paid dating world.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2264749] And its not GFE, it's a part time real GF, and there is a difference.[/QUOTE]So true. Yes, that is the main reason to play in the bowl.

You know you have been doing this a long time when you message a girl and she says you have already gone out on a date with her. LOL. Now I keep a spreadsheet. But it only goes back two or three years.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2265127]You know you have been doing this a long time when you message a girl and she says you have already gone out on a date with her. LOL. Now I keep a spreadsheet. But it only goes back two or three years.[/QUOTE]Some of the women post a new profile when the old one gets stale. Sometimes they create new pics but often they are using the same ones form several years back. I just shrug and say: "How could I passed on a great woman like you? Let's try a second time!" There is always a chance their expectations have adjusted lower.

RB.

I find one of the problems is to balance the need for quality and consistency with the need for novelty and variety. Once you find someone (or someones) you like, you want to keep them, as over the years one learns to recognize the value of combined youth, beauty, brains and low drama. These finds are rare. However, even $ aside, there just that many days in the week and one still needs to exercise, play golf or tennis and do house chores. Your concubines become addicted to sugar and need their weekly (that they sometimes request to become bi-weekly) trysts, while you are instead tempted to explore the underworld behind the skirt of your newly convinced doll. Adding someone new to the rotation will put more pressure on all these previous commitments, and eventually, resources. Still, I suppose that is a better problem to be had than dealing with the unpredictability and all the complementary problems of the threads outside this one, aptly described below.

In a testament for how quickly things can change in the bowl (see previous post), I have three M&G lined up for this week:

- One with the girl who's phone presumably died on an earlier attempt. The only reason for a 2nd chance here is the quality of the communication (phone incident aside) and the hotness of the pix. She's the one who proposed the new date, time and place. That seems like a good sign.

- One with a MILF who seems to know what to expect as she wants to make sure I understand she's not in her pre-kid physical condition. I anticipate a low level of expectation here due to her low-cost town and complex situation.

- One with another hot girl with a self-described "practical" level of expectation, but I want to test that a bit as she works in a beauty salon.

Let's see what the count is by week's end. Place your bets now.

SM.

[QUOTE=JeanSaulPartre;2266060]I find one of the problems is to balance the need for quality and consistency with the need for novelty and variety. Once you find someone (or someones) you like, you want to keep them, as over the years one learns to recognize the value of combined youth, beauty, brains and low drama. These finds are rare. However, even $ aside, there just that many days in the week and one still needs to exercise, play golf or tennis and do house chores. Your concubines become addicted to sugar and need their weekly (that they sometimes request to become bi-weekly) trysts, while you are instead tempted to explore the underworld behind the skirt of your newly convinced doll. Adding someone new to the rotation will put more pressure on all these previous commitments, and eventually, resources. Still, I suppose that is a better problem to be had than dealing with the unpredictability and all the complementary problems of the threads outside this one, aptly described below.[/QUOTE]It's inevitable that some girls (even good girls) are going to rotate out. The novelty and variety aspect makes that a given. The only good thing (at least for me) is that having a couple of regulars keeps me from going totally off the deep end as far as fucking any random girl that crosses my path. While many hot girls turn me down over my refusal to pay $$ to a newbie (as in new to make my acquaintance) , I turn down just as many due to distance and availability.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2265127]You know you have been doing this a long time when you message a girl and she says you have already gone out on a date with her. LOL. Now I keep a spreadsheet. But it only goes back two or three years.[/QUOTE]I've only been swimming in the sugar bowl for a few months and I've already done that twice LOL. I'm taking a cue from you and starting a spreadsheet.

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2266373]I've only been swimming in the sugar bowl for a few months and I've already done that twice LOL. I'm taking a cue from you and starting a spreadsheet.[/QUOTE]It was discussed a while back on how different people keep track, especially if you're playing the numbers and messaging all the new ones that show up.

I preferred using a hobby only email from outlook because ms also offers an integrated storage, onedrive (like gmail with google drive).

Besides keeping a spreadsheet in there with different info- I tracked username / real name / age / city / phone number / other misc info I should know.

I also saved the pictures in individual folders. Nothing worse then being at a m&g and not remembering exactly what the girl looks like.

Went really well! It is amazing the amount of play that is available in a very large city! I had two weeks and I wanted to have fun. I ended up meeting with four ladies, all in the first week and went to the FC with 3 of them. I had to turn down dates for another 6 or 7 because my time commitments and it was just so overwhelming!

First girl met me at my hotel about an hour after landing. 26, very tiny and fun. She just came over from work and asked to use my shower to freshen up. Of course! FC before even heading out. That was a great start to the trip. We ended up going out and walking around and getting a late lunch. I wish I had seen her again this trip. She was fun. Cost $$.

I had another date scheduled that evening with 28 yo Russian. I had to cancel because some work event came up. I never got a chance to meet her.

My 2nd date was with a 34 yo MIRDNWTFBDAW (mom I really did not want to fuck but I did anway) She was super cool in out texts but I never got a full body photo. And you guys know what that means! Yeah, just a little larger than advertised. Oh well. I took one for the team. Cost $$ and dinner.

#3 was the only one I did not make it to the FC with. A 27 yo asian, tiny former gymnast. Look hot in leggings and heels. Went to dinner, sort of forced and awkward, hug at the end of the date and that was it. We just did not click. Cost about 60 $ for dinner.

#4 was my favorite. 18 year old hottie. She shows up in a nice black dress, later find out no panties on. We go to dinner, walk around chinatown and then head back to my room. 2 rounds of absolute fun. Like prior conversations about these young women. She loved it rough, anal, choking, everything. We even put on a nice show in front of the windows of the hotel. She wanted to spend the night but I wasnt into it. Morning fun would have been great, but I passed. Cost $$.

That was just my first 5 days in town. It was spectacular, for the most part, and with time I could have fileded several quality players for my team. I found I did not have the bargaining power to get the best deals so I tried to stay around the $$ range. I was met with some outlandish $$ offers from some real stunners. To hear what some of these women are earning from guys is pretty crazy. I found the normal asking rate was between $$ With some negotiating I could get that down though. I know if I was local and could offer them something consistent I could be playing in Hollywood Guy's ball park. I just did not have the leverage, knowing it was going to be a onetime deal.

Here is my contribution to the bowl.

Hey guys, I've been doing more and more of the SB thing. I've been hesitant to pay monthly fees and have been using SugarDaddyToday as a result. I'm thinking about signing up and wanted to see if the seniors on this forum had any recommendations. J.