Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County

As there are many opinions on tipping, I'll respond here rather than on the Massage Parlors site, so hopefully reports there can continue to primarily focus on AMP experiences, including the good, bad and fugly, rather than be bogged down with tipping do's and don'ts.

I have been a hobbyist for more than three decades, and depending on the place, I often will withhold the tip until after the services have been rendered. That said, I am here (like most of us) to serve my own insatiable needs, and I have learned that tipping is not a one-size-fits all practice. TIP, as an acronym, likely came about in the 17th century in Britain taverns, and stood for To Insure Promptness, so that patrons in packed places could get there brews poured and delivered to them more quickly. And of course it evolved from there, varying greatly all over the globe. Let's use Japan as an example. It's not a tipping culture, which is fine. And in my times there, if I was hooking up with a girl for certain sensory delights, I was asked to pay the amount up front. No problem.

While putting myself through college as a waiter, I learned the value of providing stellar service, and while it was still the custom to receive a tip after the bill was rendered, there were more than a few people who would slip the matre D's tips to get a great table, and sooner. Just like in nightclubs. If I didn't know the doorman, I'd palm him a $20 (again, this was ages ago, so $20 was good), to not have to wait in line.

These days, if I'm having a sit-down meal, I'll often hand the busser $5 when she or he first brings water. It's amazing how such a minor gesture helps ensure a better dining experience. A lot of people complain about how you see a tip jar in virtually every type of establishment these days, saying that they are already getting paid, so why bother? I guess it just depends on you, your circumstances, and your frame of mine.

I have discretionary income, and I choose how to share it as I like. With parlors, independents, strip clubs, etc. , if I believe that providing advance monetary incentives may help me get a more satisfying experience, that's what I do. Even though on rare occasions I might get burnt, my batting average is pretty damn high.

Others have said that if some of us tip too much, or tip in advance, we are spoiling it for other mongers. While I can appreciate that some mongers are on tighter budgets, my goal in this hobby is to satisfy my own selfish needs, so that's how I play it.

To each his own.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6438207]Yep, I've seen some pretty young girls with traces of grey. My wife started getting them in her mid 20's. So it really isn't tied into age as much as people think. It's especially noticeable if they have darker hair.[/QUOTE]That white / gray hair is definitely more noticeable. Because of that and maybe because of heredity, I've seen college age Asian men with graying hair. Gray hair is not just a male trait. Dye jobs are an Asian female must! I love going to the Asian Garden Mall, in Westminster, and seeing these 70 something Vietnamese grannies with shocking black hair put up in a bun. They are accompanied by their white haired husbands and their graying sons.

[QUOTE=Caribe;6438506]That white / gray hair is definitely more noticeable. Because of that and maybe because of heredity, I've seen college age Asian men with graying hair. Gray hair is not just a male trait. Dye jobs are an Asian female must! I love going to the Asian Garden Mall, in Westminster, and seeing these 70 something Vietnamese grannies with shocking black hair put up in a bun. They are accompanied by their white haired husbands and their graying sons.[/QUOTE]My neighbor is Viet and she owns a jewelry stall upstairs and on the weekends sometimes I go hangout at her stall to just chill out and people watch occasionally.

And, especially look at the Viet Milfs with fake boobs jobs and there yellow fever sugar daddy husbands.

This culture is nothing less than bribing. Such practice disturb the market equilibrium.

In restaurants you call it tip.

In spa its donation.

In school its management fee.

In job its kick-back.

In govt its corruption.

To each his own can't BUY anything without money because they never earn reputation.

[QUOTE=Sticker;6438465]As there are many opinions on tipping, I'll respond here rather than on the Massage Parlors site, so hopefully reports there can continue to primarily focus on AMP experiences, including the good, bad and fugly, rather than be bogged down with tipping do's and don'ts.

I have been a hobbyist for more than three decades, and depending on the place, I often will withhold the tip until after the services have been rendered. That said, I am here (like most of us) to serve my own insatiable needs, and I have learned that tipping is not a one-size-fits all practice. TIP, as an acronym, likely came about in the 17th century in Britain taverns, and stood for To Insure Promptness, so that patrons in packed places could get there brews poured and delivered to them more quickly. And of course it evolved from there, varying greatly all over the globe. Let's use Japan as an example. It's not a tipping culture, which is fine. And in my times there, if I was hooking up with a girl for certain sensory delights, I was asked to pay the amount up front. No problem.

While putting myself through college as a waiter, I learned the value of providing stellar service, and while it was still the custom to receive a tip after the bill was rendered, there were more than a few people who would slip the matre D's tips to get a great table, and sooner. Just like in nightclubs. If I didn't know the doorman, I'd palm him a $20 (again, this was ages ago, so $20 was good), to not have to wait in line.

These days, if I'm having a sit-down meal, I'll often hand the busser $5 when she or he first brings water. It's amazing how such a minor gesture helps ensure a better dining experience. A lot of people complain about how you see a tip jar in virtually every type of establishment these days, saying that they are already getting paid, so why bother? I guess it just depends on you, your circumstances, and your frame of mine.

I have discretionary income, and I choose how to share it as I like. With parlors, independents, strip clubs, etc. , if I believe that providing advance monetary incentives may help me get a more satisfying experience, that's what I do. Even though on rare occasions I might get burnt, my batting average is pretty damn high.

Others have said that if some of us tip too much, or tip in advance, we are spoiling it for other mongers. While I can appreciate that some mongers are on tighter budgets, my goal in this hobby is to satisfy my own selfish needs, so that's how I play it.

To each his own.[/QUOTE]

What I find really weird is when some monger can't think up something to say, trolls this site, then uses your words on another. Check out what this guy says.

[URL]https://www.rubmaps.ch/erotic-massage-royalty-spa-santa-ana-ca-140404[/URL]#review-1935834.

Of course based on my post here.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3450-Massage-Parlor-Reports&p=6439321[/URL]#post6439321.

Just a rant.

[QUOTE=HapaBoy86;6439284]My neighbor is Viet and she owns a jewelry stall upstairs and on the weekends sometimes I go hangout at her stall to just chill out and people watch occasionally.

And, especially look at the Viet Milfs with fake boobs jobs and there yellow fever sugar daddy husbands.[/QUOTE]Haha! I've seen those women. I would stop by the food court for a break from work when I was in the area during the week. I would go upstairs to check out those Vietnamese MILFs in the jewelry shops on both sides of the counter. The shopping MILFs were by themselves. Perhaps the shopping MILFs were checking out merchandise and cutting pre-deals on what they will get hobbies to buy. Fake boobs, butts, lips and eyes all paid for by their husbands / boyfriends.

I've even spotted Chinese massage providers shopping with monger boyfriends in the mall. They were dressed more modestly than those Vietnamese MILFs, though.

Finally got this site back on my phone. Almost impossible to get this site to open on my phone. No problem on my computer.

I'm responding to recent comments on the Massage Parlor thread because I think the discussion is better suited to this one, since it doesn't deal directly with helping us find women for sex.

First of all, I'm thanking Grimmy for his posts number 32844 and 32852. We are very fortunate to have such a knowledgeable and thoughtful guy helping us out, what breadth and depth of experience he has. I've never had any reason myself to doubt anything he's written, or felt like poking fun at him. Enough said.

Then, with regard to the history of some of the cities mentioned, this is what I've had in the 70's and 80's. In Huntington Beach in 1979 I got HJ's at an MP called Kawai. Also there was a place farther up Beach called Romans that advertised heavily in the Los Angeles Free Press, which at the time was the go-to place for MP ads. Next to that BTW we had the telephone book's yellow pages. In Irvine near the airport I think on Birch in the 80's there was a place where I got vigorous CFS. I remember the girl twisting below me, feigning to be struggling. They were odd sessions because PPS would first take my keys. I remember the room seemed to have all artifical walls, and there was a little mirror on one of them. I sort of wondered whether it was a one-way mirror, oh brother. And then in Costa Mesa at Fullerton and Cabrillo there was this little yellow house with the sign out front, Abraxis. At the time I didn't know enough Freudian psych to get it. Anyway I remember her trying to make me shoot my load up onto my face. What a joy. Also I remember that was the first time I felt a "done" boob. Really hard and unnatural. I felt sort of bad that she'd gone through surgery to please men and that this was the result. Over on Park at 18th there was A-Park Massage. That was the first time I was asked for. 25 for a HJ, which usually ran. 15. Again, about 1978. And there was a place way up on Newport that was good too.

Lift Her Up.

The place on Birch was just over the line in NB. Sorry.

Abraxis, wow that brings back memories. Several fun places on Birch back then.

Thanks for nudge to the old grey cells!

Punter1.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6452877]I'm responding to recent comments on the Massage Parlor thread because I think the discussion is better suited to this one, since it doesn't deal directly with helping us find women for sex.

First of all, I'm thanking Grimmy for his posts number 32844 and 32852. We are very fortunate to have such a knowledgeable and thoughtful guy helping us out, what breadth and depth of experience he has. I've never had any reason myself to doubt anything he's written, or felt like poking fun at him. Enough said.

Then, with regard to the history of some of the cities mentioned, this is what I've had in the 70's and 80's. In Huntington Beach in 1979 I got HJ's at an MP called Kawai. Also there was a place farther up Beach called Romans that advertised heavily in the Los Angeles Free Press, which at the time was the go-to place for MP ads. Next to that BTW we had the telephone book's yellow pages. In Irvine near the airport I think on Birch in the 80's there was a place where I got vigorous CFS. I remember the girl twisting below me, feigning to be struggling. They were odd sessions because PPS would first take my keys. I remember the room seemed to have all artifical walls, and there was a little mirror on one of them. I sort of wondered whether it was a one-way mirror, oh brother. And then in Costa Mesa at Fullerton and Cabrillo there was this little yellow house with the sign out front, Abraxis. At the time I didn't know enough Freudian psych to get it. Anyway I remember her trying to make me shoot my load up onto my face. What a joy. Also I remember that was the first time I felt a "done" boob. Really hard and unnatural. I felt sort of bad that she'd gone through surgery to please men and that this was the result. Over on Park at 18th there was A-Park Massage. That was the first time I was asked for. 25 for a HJ, which usually ran. 15. Again, about 1978. And there was a place way up on Newport that was good too.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]More like 2006, there used to be a massage shop on east side of Beach, between Ellis and Talbert. Near that used Sports shop. It was kinda legit but I got quite a few handies in there. There was a Korean place on the west side of Beach Talbert and Beach (near the Coffee Bean) where you got a nice private room and handy. But that place got closed down. There was another little place with Koreans on Beach and Constantine near IHOP with older Korean ladies but good service. That to went down. They all went down. So I would go down Beach to Stanton north of the 22 -a bunch of places with Vietnamese over there. Really cheap. Maybe $20 or $25 house.

[QUOTE=Caribe;6441822]Haha! I've seen those women. I would stop by the food court for a break from work when I was in the area during the week. I would go upstairs to check out those Vietnamese MILFs in the jewelry shops on both sides of the counter. The shopping MILFs were by themselves. Perhaps the shopping MILFs were checking out merchandise and cutting pre-deals on what they will get hobbies to buy. Fake boobs, butts, lips and eyes all paid for by their husbands / boyfriends.

I've even spotted Chinese massage providers shopping with monger boyfriends in the mall. They were dressed more modestly than those Vietnamese MILFs, though.[/QUOTE]Just got back from visiting my neighbors stall and the hot viet milfs are out and even the young ones looking for there Gold. I guess it summer now and they want there new bling bling.

To show off in Vegas clubs and pool parties. LOL.

Is it just me or are these nightfunpages all just fake leads? They all end up as mps that are known to be written by trolls.

[QUOTE=MassageTourist;6478696]Disclaimer: frequent BW, been to Air a few times and a few others so I'm not necessarily a noob.

Went here based off of your review. Probably one of the better massages I've ever had, and that's counting the legit places. Got Summer, who wasn't bad looking. Only thing is she didn't finish me off. Maybe because I gave a wholesome appearance, they probably thought I was there for a legit massage. On my way out, an athletic lady was checking in so maybe they figured I was a mainstreamer. Also one little grip was she left a crack in the door so it was never closed the whole time. I'd love to go back for a proper massage and get properly finished off. Any tips on how to do this?[/QUOTE]Been to kims only once and I thought it was whatever. Just start roaming around her leg casually once massage starts. This signals the masseuse you are there for a reason. 99% of the time, they will finish you off. I've even had HE at a legit spot by simply just asking for it LOL but got to be adamant. Only been turned down once but this was at a spot in la where I was going in blind.

The worst they can do is just move away from your roaming if they arent down for that. Also, its ok to ask for things like water, close the door, etc. You are the client, not the reverse. Stand your ground and don't let them throw you around.

[QUOTE=RBFSyndrome;6479866]Is it just me or are these nightfunpages all just fake leads? They all end up as mps that are known to be written by trolls.

Been to kims only once and I thought it was whatever. Just start roaming around her leg casually once massage starts. This signals the masseuse you are there for a reason. 99% of the time, they will finish you off. I've even had HE at a legit spot by simply just asking for it LOL but got to be adamant. Only been turned down once but this was at a spot in la where I was going in blind.

The worst they can do is just move away from your roaming if they arent down for that. Also, its ok to ask for things like water, close the door, etc. You are the client, not the reverse. Stand your ground and don't let them throw you around.[/QUOTE]Night fun pages has the same ads as bedpage. They are legit ads. This should be in the rant and stupid shit section. You are off topic.

Yes they are mps. I don't see what's the difference. MPs / houses. If your cock gets sucked. I don't see an issue LOL.

[QUOTE=Sexaholic777;6480303]Night fun pages has the same ads as bedpage. They are legit ads. This should be in the rant and stupid shit section. You are off topic.

Yes they are mps. I don't see what's the difference. MPs / houses. If your cock gets sucked. I don't see an issue LOL.[/QUOTE]I think you are that troll that's posting shit mps for a promotion via bedfun / nightpages because you are unwilling to write out the names of the MPs bc we already know the ones trolls promote. Real tragic we got to deal with trolls like you.

[QUOTE=RBFSyndrome;6482965]I think you are that troll that's posting shit mps for a promotion via bedfun / nightpages because you are unwilling to write out the names of the MPs bc we already know the ones trolls promote. Real tragic we got to deal with trolls like you.[/QUOTE]GMTA (great minds.).

I remember the Getaway on Birch along with a couple of other FS MP with caucasian providers like Sherry and Christine who were once business partners until that went south, I used to see Sherry regularly and then off premises when she semi retired and unfortunately lost contact with her when she retired to Arizona, but she introduced me to the MP scene and I would save my tips I made bartending to go see her as she moved to different locations around JWA all owned by the same people. She was a friend and I tried to track her down but to no avail. She was my ATF.

[QUOTE=Sexaholic777;6480303]Night fun pages has the same ads as bedpage. They are legit ads. This should be in the rant and stupid shit section. You are off topic.

Yes they are mps. I don't see what's the difference. MPs / houses. If your cock gets sucked. I don't see an issue LOL.[/QUOTE]A massage parlor is a shop in a retail location where you get a massage and maybe something extra. Your private apartment rendevous are no massage parlors. I am guessing they are essential private escorts or full on bordellos. And there seems to be a greater risk in a number of ways. Its like if there is a list dedicated to restaurants, and you guys keep posting about some home made tamales sold from the back of a pickup truck. Yeah they are both food but a pickup truck is not a restaurant. Now that you understand the different perhaps you and Al Capone can post in the appropriate forum. I suspect you guys are just advertising for those private places on the MP list to pull some business over there. A telltale sign is that you two attack anyone who questions WTF goes on with these dubious webpages which do not belong in the MP section. Why don't you just pay to advertise legitimately rather than this cheapo form of advertising.

[QUOTE=Justify;6484150]I remember the Getaway on Birch along with a couple of other FS MP with caucasian providers like Sherry and Christine who were once business partners until that went south, I used to see Sherry regularly and then off premises when she semi retired and unfortunately lost contact with her when she retired to Arizona, but she introduced me to the MP scene and I would save my tips I made bartending to go see her as she moved to different locations around JWA all owned by the same people. She was a friend and I tried to track her down but to no avail. She was my ATF.[/QUOTE]I was a regular at all the AMPs on Birch, Campus, Quail St.

Man those we're the days banging white MILFs. Latina MILFs and of course Korean girls before they went viral!

I'm responding to DarkRoomDaddy's post 33232 on the Massage thread, and LngTimeMongr's 33226. The few times I've asked at the Chinese houses and apartments in the SGV they've said they're going to a place quite a ways east, like Chicago or someplace in Texas. A couple of times they said they didn't know, and it sounded like they really didn't, but who knows. And usually they say they've been in the USA Just a few weeks or months. I have the impression there's a team of PPSs and MMSs that moves them around. But I've yet to run into one of them who seemed miserable in this line of work. Some are really into it, others just doing a job to earn money. And there's the occasional gem who's really really into it, ahhh.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6506455]I'm responding to DarkRoomDaddy's post 33232 on the Massage thread, and LngTimeMongr's 33226. The few times I've asked at the Chinese houses and apartments in the SGV they've said they're going to a place quite a ways east, like Chicago or someplace in Texas. A couple of times they said they didn't know, and it sounded like they really didn't, but who knows. And usually they say they've been in the USA Just a few weeks or months. I have the impression there's a team of PPSs and MMSs that moves them around. But I've yet to run into one of them who seemed miserable in this line of work. Some are really into it, others just doing a job to earn money. And there's the occasional gem who's really really into it, ahhh.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]It seems when the girls go to a new shop they have to deal with new rules of the road. So this suggests its not the same organization. Very few girls seem to invite me to come see them at their new shop which seems strange. If they were cutting hair or doing nails, you would think they would welcome an old customer in their new place. Its possible the new shop is legit, or maybe more wild so they have to manage expectations. And as you said, its possible they made a huge move out of state.

Its pretty amazing that these girls can just leave a job and find a new one hundreds of miles away. Given that they usually don't have a car, don't have a driver's license, don't speak English, often do not have proper immigration status. So they can't just find a new apartment and call the electric company. They are totally reliant on MMS / PPS for housing and essentials.

You been here befo?

Who do for you last time?

50+ worn-out granny: How long you want? (ad showed 20 something babe).

One ouwa sik-tee.

Lili go vacation. Coco do for you. She berry good.

You want massage there?

You want everything?

Relax baby, I bring condom (leaves the door wide open as she walks out).

You hansum man.

You come honey?

Ad: Grand Opening (It's been there for decades).

Her: Straightening out the bed sheet. The one you just exploded on. No wonder I felt a wet spot earlier.

You: Who's working today? Papasan: (Looking at his chart) Who?

Ad: BBFS She: Sorry I'm on period. You: Umm. . . Backdoor??

Ad: Location: 5 different cities, none of which is the actual city (yeah, that's really going to fool the LE).

Ay-yai-yai.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;6511183]
Ad: Grand Opening (It's been there for decades).
[/QUOTE]Nearly every other add.

Those types of adverts I normally skip over.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;6511183]You been here befo?

Who do for you last time?

50+ worn-out granny: How long you want? (ad showed 20 something babe).

One ouwa sik-tee.

Lili go vacation. Coco do for you. She berry good.

You want massage there?

You want everything?

Relax baby, I bring condom (leaves the door wide open as she walks out).[/QUOTE]Me: Is Wendy working?

Lady: Yes she is available now. $45 pay me now. Wait in this room.

(20 minutes go by).

Me: if no one is going to come can you give my money back?

Lady: she come now. No problem.

(another 10 minutes of waiting. Then a chubby unattractive substitute girl comes in).

Me: what happened to Wendy?

Lady: she have other customer. I give you good massage. #1.

Lady: "You good body. You exercise a lot?

Me: "no not really. More of a couch potato. But thanks for the flattery".

Lady: "Oh you like Chinese lady?

Me: Naw not really. Any human between 18 and 40 with a vagina will pretty much do.

Lady: mmm oh baby, yes, yes, oh yeah".

Me: are you truly on the verge of an orgasm yourself just by stroking my johnson with some baby oil? I am starting to suspect this is something of an Oscar award winning performance.

Lady: You want water?

Me: I thought I paid for 1 hour, and exactly 32 minutes have gone by.

Lady: Oh I have another customer now. I make it up to you next time.

Me: How about making it up to me now by giving me a full hour?

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6506455]I'm responding to DarkRoomDaddy's post 33232 on the Massage thread, and LngTimeMongr's 33226. The few times I've asked at the Chinese houses and apartments in the SGV they've said they're going to a place quite a ways east, like Chicago or someplace in Texas. A couple of times they said they didn't know, and it sounded like they really didn't, but who knows. And usually they say they've been in the USA Just a few weeks or months. I have the impression there's a team of PPSs and MMSs that moves them around. But I've yet to run into one of them who seemed miserable in this line of work. Some are really into it, others just doing a job to earn money. And there's the occasional gem who's really really into it, ahhh.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]There is in fact an organized trafficking network that shuttles girls around from state to state. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of the shops and girls that are reviewed in this forum. In fact I'm not aware of any in the OC that fall into that category. There are some north of us that likely do. Almost all of us are reporting on girls that we've been seeing for years. They certainly aren't in this category, and most of them are doing this kind of work by choice. A lot of them aren't necessarily doing it because they like it, but they like the money, and they don't have any marketable skills that would pay them anywhere near that much. But there most definitely are a large number of girls who are trafficked, predominantly Asian and Latina. The different locations they're moved around to aren't necessarily related. Think of the trafficking network as a temporary job service that the MPs utilize. I won't get into more details as it's not really necessary here. Bottom line for me, and this is entirely my choice, I stay away from places that get entirely new lineups of girls every couple of weeks. That's normally a telltale sign of trafficking, and while I'm not against paying to play once in a while, I won't patronize a shop if I have even the slightest suspicion that trafficking may be happening. If a girl is fine with tugging dicks for a living, that's her choice and I'm not judgmental. But if she's being forced to jerk random guys off beyond her will, that's an entirely different matter.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6511984]There is in fact an organized trafficking network that shuttles girls around from state to state. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of the shops and girls that are reviewed in this forum. In fact I'm not aware of any in the OC that fall into that category. There are some north of us that likely do , , .[/QUOTE]Grimmy is one of my most respected contributors to USASG. So it is with tender steps that I take a slightly different view. Until falling in with Cindy in the OC a year ago, I did most of my FS in the SGV, from 2008 on, and the majority was with services that swapped out the staff every ten days to two weeks. With the exception of Lucy at Fish and Chips and a few others I really hadn't had a whole lot of luck or really good experiences down here. In the SGV places, usually houses or condos or nice apartments and not free-standing businesses, when I would ask the girls how long they were going to be here it was generally not more than a few days, and sometimes they'd know what distant city they were headed for and sometimes not. I would ask if they were happy here and they would seem to be, only one said no, she missed China. I might add that in most cases they said they were from Guangzhou. I never had the feeling that any of these workers had been tricked or strong-armed into servicing me. I say this, knowing that most of our population thinks the girls have been tricked, passports seized, essentially been held prisoners as sex slaves.

Now if I'm mistaken then I've been making a horrible mistake and spending my money to support cruel repression, and I so regret it. But I don't think so. But I'm open to evidence.

My main problem with the houses is that when I get someone who is really specially good to me, it's no use 'cause she's gone in a few days.

Let me also bring up the various meanings of trafficking. My unabridged dictionary says that it can refer to dealing in anything, like tomatoes, or it can imply dealing in something illegal. The legal definition in the US, I think, is transporting a woman across state lines for something illegal, though most people who say "human trafficking" just mean forced sex work or slave labor without the "transport" concept necessarily. So I suggest we all be clear, as we usually are, what the intended meaning of trafficking is when we write it.

And while I'm on the subject of definitions, let me say that traditionally, a monger is someone who sells something. A fishmonger is the guy who sells fish. A *monger is a pimp, at least in its original meaning. We've switched the meaning to refer to us clients of these professionals. OK, enough ranting from me.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6514587]Grimmy is one of my most respected contributors to USASG. So it is with tender steps that I take a slightly different view. Until falling in with Cindy in the OC a year ago, I did most of my FS in the SGV, from 2008 on, and the majority was with services that swapped out the staff every ten days to two weeks. With the exception of Lucy at Fish and Chips and a few others I really hadn't had a whole lot of luck or really good experiences down here. In the SGV places, usually houses or condos or nice apartments and not free-standing businesses, when I would ask the girls how long they were going to be here it was generally not more than a few days, and sometimes they'd know what distant city they were headed for and sometimes not. I would ask if they were happy here and they would seem to be, only one said no, she missed China. I might add that in most cases they said they were from Guangzhou. I never had the feeling that any of these workers had been tricked or strong-armed into servicing me. I say this, knowing that most of our population thinks the girls have been tricked, passports seized, essentially been held prisoners as sex slaves.

Now if I'm mistaken then I've been making a horrible mistake and spending my money to support cruel repression, and I so regret it. But I don't think so. But I'm open to evidence.

My main problem with the houses is that when I get someone who is really specially good to me, it's no use 'cause she's gone in a few days.

Let me also bring up the various meanings of trafficking. My unabridged dictionary says that it can refer to dealing in anything, like tomatoes, or it can imply dealing in something illegal. The legal definition in the US, I think, is transporting a woman across state lines for something illegal, though most people who say "human trafficking" just mean forced sex work or slave labor without the "transport" concept necessarily. So I suggest we all be clear, as we usually are, what the intended meaning of trafficking is when we write it.

And while I'm on the subject of definitions, let me say that traditionally, a monger is someone who sells something. A fishmonger is the guy who sells fish. A *monger is a pimp, at least in its original meaning. We've switched the meaning to refer to us clients of these professionals. OK, enough ranting from me.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]LHU, thank you for the kind words. I have a high level of respect for you as well as one of the long time posters here. Allow me to add some context to the discussion. Yes, trafficking is absolutely real. As part of my "civil responsibility" as an owner of a legit massage business I work with an organization that provides support to trafficking victims. It's fairly safe to say that if you're visiting an AMP around here the girls are not trafficked. They're there by their own will in the vast majority of the cases. There are of course some exceptions. For LMPs the chances of trafficking are a bit higher. For private escorts working out of residences, the numbers go up a bit for both Asian and Latina. The numbers jump significantly for street prostitutes.

Some rough stats. There's an estimated 16,000 trafficking situations in the US per year. A "situation" can have multiple victims. Out of those situations, only 10% of them are for sex trafficking. The bulk are forced labor in restaurants, cleaning, and so on. So per year there's roughly 1600 known sex trafficking incidents in the US. Most of those involve several victims, so that equates to around 5000 - 6000 known victims per year who are forced into the trade. Out of those, about 30% are minors (very sad) - they're dealt on the streets or in private apartments. That leaves about 4000 adults. Out of those, the biggest demographic by far is Latina. Only 27% of them are Asian, and the biggest Asian demographics are Korean and Vietnamese. Chinese fall pretty low on the spectrum. There are some other demographics mixed in there. African and a small percentage of white. So overall, if you're visiting a Chinese shop, your chances of seeing girls who are trafficked are pretty small. If you're visiting a Latina shop they're quite a bit higher. I personally choose to avoid places that have entire new staffs frequently, or places that show any signs of the girls living in the shop. Those are two of the biggest telltale signs. That's just me though. It doesn't always mean trafficking, but they're a couple of the biggest indicators.

Another thing about trafficking is a lot of the victims are so well conditioned that they don't even realize they're being trafficked. That's a lot more common than people realize. I won't get too far into that though because it's an entirely different issue that gets to be a very complicated discussion. Some can make valid arguments that girls can be doing this voluntarily, and they're here legally, but they speak little English and have no other means of making enough money to support themselves. That in itself can be a form of trafficking, and not in the more conventional form of them having their passports taken away and forced to perform sexual services. As I said though, that's quite complicated and isn't included in the numbers I gave.

So bottom line, there's not a lot to worry about here, but there have been known cases of trafficking in MPs. Chances are if you're visiting places that are reviewed here you're not encountering them. The stats are in your favor. But recognize that there are some out there, and I choose to avoid ones that show potential signs of it.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6515487]LHU, thank you for the kind words. I have a high level of respect for you as well as one of the long time posters here. It's fairly safe to say that if you're visiting an AMP around here the girls are not trafficked. They're there by their own will in the vast majority of the cases. There are of course some exceptions. For LMPs the chances of trafficking are a bit higher. For private escorts working out of residences, the numbers go up a bit for both Asian and Latina. The numbers jump significantly for street prostitutes.[/QUOTE]JK, of course, you guys are solid contributors and mongers (okay, noted about the monger misnomer, so for a minute we'll can call ourselves partakers). Agreed, that true human trafficking of any kind is a very bad thing, but I am also doubtful that I've ever been with a provider who was in a trafficked situation whereby she was abused or hurt.

Maybe I'm in denial, but it just doesn't seem to be the case, especially when one's provider is laughing, playful, orgasmic, and more. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

Yes, while it's true that in places like Hypno and a few other spots, the girls get rotated; they also get rotated back to Hypno after a few weeks, and they still have huge smiles on their faces and good attitudes when providing there again. I've been around the block, and I don't think it's all a big act. Especially since they joke and laugh with one another in Mandarin, Vietnamese or whatever their homeland language is at the places to which I frequent.

That said, should I happen upon spots in the future where the girls are morose and not seeming to enjoy the give-and-take, I'll think twice about re-frequenting those places. But for me, so far, so good.

[QUOTE=Sticker;6516669]JK, of course, you guys are solid contributors and mongers (okay, noted about the monger misnomer, so for a minute we'll can call ourselves partakers). Agreed, that true human trafficking of any kind is a very bad thing, but I am also doubtful that I've ever been with a provider who was in a trafficked situation whereby she was abused or hurt.

Maybe I'm in denial, but it just doesn't seem to be the case, especially when one's provider is laughing, playful, orgasmic, and more. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

Yes, while it's true that in places like Hypno and a few other spots, the girls get rotated; they also get rotated back to Hypno after a few weeks, and they still have huge smiles on their faces and good attitudes when providing there again. I've been around the block, and I don't think it's all a big act. Especially since they joke and laugh with one another in Mandarin, Vietnamese or whatever their homeland language is at the places to which I frequent.

That said, should I happen upon spots in the future where the girls are morose and not seeming to enjoy the give-and-take, I'll think twice about re-frequenting those places. But for me, so far, so good.[/QUOTE]It's all good, Sticker. In the OC you're statistically more likely to run into trafficking in a restaurant or hotel than you are in an MP. There are some documented cases where it has happened in the past few years, but for the most part if you’re patronizing AMPs you're safe. If you're visiting private apartment girls or street girls the chances are much higher. Also Latina MPs. That’s not to say all of them are problematic, but you’re far more likely to run into trafficked Latinas than Asians.

What's more difficult to deal with is what I'd call quid pro quo trafficking. That's a huge grey area even for me. I won't mention any shop names, but there's a few in the area that operate like this, and even I visit them. I keep going back but I struggle with the ethics of it. Say a shop offers their girls room and board for a reasonable fee, but they have to keep working there to get that. For example, say they get a house to live in and all the food they need for $500/ month. It's not great living conditions but it’s a roof over their head and a place to sleep. There's 10 - 12 other girls plus the MMS and PPS sharing the 4 bedroom house so it's a bit crowded and there's no privacy. The food is edible but not the greatest. They're driven to and from work in a van so they don't need a car. The girls are free to leave anytime they want, but if they quit they have to move out of the house. Now you have a girl who wants to quit, but she'd have to find a place to live and something to do for a living. She’s 5000 miles from home, speaks little English and has no marketable skills that would pay her anywhere hear what she gets from doing sex work. So it boils down to being "happy" with jerking a dozen random cocks all day long and making good money, or trying to do something else and struggling. Given a choice, I don't think many of them really want to jerk cocks, but they become dependent on the money and don't see any other real options. That's another form of trafficking, but not in the form that most people think of trafficking where the girls are essentially imprisoned.

Bottom line is I just use my gut, and if my gut tells me that something is off I won’t go there.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6515487]. . . As part of my "civil responsibility" as an owner of a legit massage business I work with an organization that provides support to trafficking victims. . . .[/QUOTE]Grimmy, glad you're supporting a helping organization. I myself donate to a couple of orgs that helps get trapped girls, often underage, out of the business in southeast Asia and India. If you'll PM me a name, I'll include the one you support on my annual giving list.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=Sticker;6516669]. . . Yes, while it's true that in places like Hypno and a few other spots, the girls get rotated; they also get rotated back to Hypno after a few weeks, . . .[/QUOTE]Hi Sticker, and thanks for your many contributions too. What you wrote reminds me, when I was writing about girls being rotated off to very distant places, I should also have said I've been with a few who would be rotated around just the SGV and western LA County, and back. I got the phone numbers of a couple so I could see them on my travels if I could, and connect when I got back. One really special one, I lost her number, insert screamed profanity here. She wore a fishnet top and would have her own O as she rode me ACG. She really liked being with me, I think.

I'll add, I was taken to task a few years ago by one of our members who shamed me for not "realizing" that they're always faking the pleasure they seem to be having. Well I can agree that most of the time, nearly all the time it's faked. But not 100% of the time.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6518978]One really special one, I lost her number, insert screamed profanity here. She wore a fishnet top and would have her own O as she rode me ACG. She really liked being with me, I think.[/QUOTE]Whoever took you to task apparently didn't have the knowledge nor skills to know the difference between a real vs. A fake O. I learned early on how to make girls cum, long before I became a paying customer, and then over the last couple of decades built upon those skills to be able to make providers cum regularly. Granted, it's always easier for me to make them cum through DATY, but there are still a good number of them who can also get off during the posturepedic polka, too. The proof is from their post-coital puddle in addition to their vocalizations.

[QUOTE=Sticker;6519434]Whoever took you to task apparently didn't have the knowledge nor skills to know the difference between a real vs. A fake O. I learned early on how to make girls cum, long before I became a paying customer, and then over the last couple of decades built upon those skills to be able to make providers cum regularly. Granted, it's always easier for me to make them cum through DATY, but there are still a good number of them who can also get off during the posturepedic polka, too. The proof is from their post-coital puddle in addition to their vocalizations.[/QUOTE]In real life, I have had two women who were squirters. You needed a towel after they came. But the other 99.5% come or whatever without excessive water. I was looking at a naked strip chat website with live cams recently, and it seemed many of the girls there were squirters. But then someone told me, that the girls know the trick of saving a little bit of urine, and just peeing themselves for affect. Its pretty obvious to see so much liquid coming out that some of them literally put a bucket under their cootchie or create a wet spot across the floor. So my conclusion is that its mostly bullshit.

I think most women don't come the first few times, even with boyfriends or guys they really like. They need to get comfortable with the guy. Yes oral is preferable but its no guarantee, and it might take 20 minutes or more, to the point you get lockjaw.

The other thing I have learned from hobbying, is that many of these girls are excellent fakers. They whisper in your ear, moan, etc even when they are not stimulate at all, and may not be wet at all. Some of them are obviously fake, but there are few pro's who are amazingly believable.

I think a real orgasm would involve some uncontrollable vaginal spasms. Maybe some wild moans, but some girls are silent. Afterward they probably want some hugging without anything sexual. And the probably dry up if anything. And its highly highly doubtful they enjoy this with guy after guy, hour after hour unless they are a true nyphomaniac. And if a girl really comes with you, she is probably going to develop feelings for you which is a detriment for a working girl.

I think the real deal here is that we as men have it built into our DNA to want to please a woman. We measure ourselves as successful for making the woman pop. Seriously, I don't think they really care to have an orgasm in a little room just feet away from their co-workers. Its all about getting us off as quick as possible and spending as much as possible. So the "oh yes baby" routine it just a tool of the trade.

You can better use your real love-making skills to meet women who are not in the sex business, and get them going for real.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;6518967]Grimmy, glad you're supporting a helping organization. I myself donate to a couple of orgs that helps get trapped girls, often underage, out of the business in southeast Asia and India. If you'll PM me a name, I'll include the one you support on my annual giving list.

Lift Her Up.[/QUOTE]This is a world wide problem. Burmese girls are trafficked into Thailand and China. Romanian girls are trafficked into Germany and Amsterdam. Philipino women are abused in Saudi Arabia, China, Japan. The girls that come to the US have hit the jackpot in terms of sex work. A Chinese girl can make more money in an hour or two here, than her family can make a month back home. They hit the lottery.

I too have had the pleasure of 3-4 true squirters in my life, and yeah the volume of ejaculate is usually a sight to behold. Towels at least; I had to put a plastic cover on my replacement mattress so it wouldn't get moldy like the first one LOL. And yeah, muscle twitches are also frequent. Squirters are a true ego boost, as there's objective evidence of what you did. I've never had anyone who I felt faked a squirt with pee, that'd be quite a feat of concentration during sex, for one thing LOL.

With the other 99%, you never really know. Some girls are just good actresses, others want to have them, sometimes you do the job, etc. If it's paid sex, what does it really matter? I mean, I hope they get off, but I'm not paying for that. I'm paying for my pleasure, and I know if I'm achieving that. If it's nonpaid sex, you just do your best and 90% of the time they're more interested in other features of the "relationship" anyway.

In the MP thread two days ago, Grunion Runner referred to a girl's "love pillows" in his report titled Cloud Nine. I had not heard that term before. I love it, and I'm adopting it as a favorite metaphor.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=PelicanT99;6519919] If it's paid sex, what does it really matter? I mean, I hope they get off, but I'm not paying for that. I'm paying for my pleasure, [/QUOTE]100% agree, and I'll add to that, I'm sure I'm like many here, where I have little interest in seeing a gal again, for several reasons.

Point being, other than the clenching up & ego boost, it's not worth the investment (time, money) where my concern are my needs, not hers.

[QUOTE=Taws6;6545222]100% agree, and I'll add to that, I'm sure I'm like many here, where I have little interest in seeing a gal again, for several reasons.

Point being, other than the clenching up & ego boost, it's not worth the investment (time, money) where my concern are my needs, not hers.[/QUOTE]It's included, so it doesn't need extra money if both of you can manage. It doesn't need extra time unless you can fuck non-stop for 60 min.

My priority is my needs. I'm mostly satisfied if she's an eye candy and I have a good release. But it's like buying a TV game. You get more entertainment out of it if you score higher. Or a guitar, you give it all to make it sounds better.

One of the selling points of the enclave girls were their ability to come. If you can duck them for a full 30 min they will. If not, DATY and FIV them until they do. Then finish them with the artillery. The new high school dropouts or graduates can normally do. There are few of them now.

As for repeating, the difference between the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd time isn't an urban legend. For the majority, you don't expect to repeat in the near future. They have no reason to do their best. They honor their menu and won't get any trouble. For the 2nd time, you are a potential regular and they will try hard to keep you against the competition. For the 3rd time, they don't want you to think of any reason to see another. These girls rub shoulders all the time and they know what the competition is.

One of my needs is DFK. It gets me harder, the same reason I need eye candies. And that's one difference from a sex doll. Some ladies will rather BBFS than DFK. It's on the PD no-list as often as Greek. I saw one girl a few times to finish my movie. She looks good but doesn't kiss, but welcomes my bare dick in her mouth. On the 3rd visit she started to dance, kissed me, curled in the fetal position, and snuggled into my arms. The other one started DFK once she was naked and ready. It's passionate enough like all the other girls but she was standing with her back bending backwards, LOL. If I wasn't holding her waist she would have toppled over. For similar reasons, I might have tried to invade her lips and mouth with my tongue but I didn't really inert my tongue. At about the 3rd time her mouth was inviting. I stuck my slimy tongue in and she gave me her tongue back, and also twisting and creating friction.

[QUOTE=Taws6;6545222]100% agree, and I'll add to that, I'm sure I'm like many here, where I have little interest in seeing a gal again, for several reasons.

Point being, other than the clenching up & ego boost, it's not worth the investment (time, money) where my concern are my needs, not hers.[/QUOTE]I don't know. Personally I find satisfaction in making a woman cum, assuming it's a real orgasm. Most of the time in this hobby it's fake, but there are a few unmistakable signs of the rare occasion when you can actually pull off a real one. It's a big turn on for me. The arching of the back, the bucking hips, the moaning, the wetness, and then it's time for me to get off. It adds a lot to the experience, for me at least.

Yup, if you truly want GFE, that's going to involve DFK, DATY and making (or at least attempting) to make her cum. Of course, if BBFS is added into this mix, then it's total GFE, but even with CFS, if all the other elements are part of the experience, it's pretty damn satisfying.

I also get that some guys only want to bust a nut and split. I've no idea what the percentage of dudes who prefer to cum-and-go, versus those of us who want the more all-encompassing experience. But what I do know is that when I'm with a GFE provider and I give as much as I take, mixed in with passion and playfulness from both of us, I walk out the door with a bigger smile pasted across my mug.

[QUOTE=Grimmy23;6545909]I don't know. Personally I find satisfaction in making a woman cum, assuming it's a real orgasm. Most of the time in this hobby it's fake, but there are a few unmistakable signs of the rare occasion when you can actually pull off a real one. It's a big turn on for me. The arching of the back, the bucking hips, the moaning, the wetness, and then it's time for me to get off. It adds a lot to the experience, for me at least.[/QUOTE]