"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2256715]When I see girls I might otherwise be interested in expressing high $ or no intimacy expectations, I sometimes send them not like: "damn, you are cute. Too bad you are beyond my budget". Or "No intimacy. Darn! With a best of luck on your search. You may be surprised how many respond back positively after their expectations have been "re-set" by reality. LOL.[/QUOTE]I just ignore that stuff completely. I suggest a HJ and making out as a get to know you date first. I get a lot of positive response to this. And many times it leads to much more.

MILF update. I let down the one from the other day pretty easy. So no drama there. Here is today's. A few notches higher up the food chain. Maybe a 7 ? She wants to meet tonite.

Costs. Pretty high this month as I am rewarding the loyal few.

Did an M&G with the 18 year old diamond eyes pictured. We have to work out the details, but the first real date is gonna be a HJ only. She is only one mile from my house. She told me I was too old for her. LOL. She is at least an 8/9. Body to die for. We'll see what happens.

[QUOTE=BeardedMan67;2247879]Wow guys I think I might have hit a home run on my first time up to bat. Met an incredibly cute 18 year old girl tonight at a local coffee shop. We had emailed each other 4-5 times and she asked me to go get coffee. I got there first but didn't see anyone matching her pics. I got my drink and sat down. As I turned my my drink I saw her. WOW- absolutely stunning. I sat down and she got her drink and came over. We introduced ourselves and just started talking. We talked about everything for over an hour. I finally broached the arrangement. She said she already felt comfortable with me and she was down with it. I offered her my decided upon fee and she took it right away. No haggling back and forth. She said I'm so happy we met!! We have a date set up for this coming weekend. I am stoked! I was incredibly nervous about the meet and greet but it went so well.[/QUOTE]Guys- just a follow up to let you know how first date went. Met her at a nice hotel. I offered to buy her dinner, but she had just eaten with her family. We went to the room and talked on the bed for over an hour just getting comfortable with each other and then the fun began. Incredible to be with an 18 year old gorgeous girl!! I got her a gift of lingerie and got to see it modeled and them got some pics of it later. Meeting her again in 2 weeks.

Question- should I care that I know she is seeing other guys or at least looking? I guess the answer is no as long as I am getting what I want out of it.

For anyone that's a member of SA you likely received an offer to sign up for this affiliated site. I did and I did sign up about three weeks ago. Most of the ads were the same women on SA (but not all). I was turned off by the requirement to buy credits in order to send or respond to an offer so I didn't buy. Today (must be the full moon) I bit and bought the basic package of credits. Already have three dates planned out of it and at reasonable prices. One is a preggo (not in her profile, revealed after contact). Kinky. Anybody else TOFFT team on this site? I will report my experiences when they go down.

[QUOTE=BeardedMan67;2256822]Guys- just a follow up to let you know how first date went. Met her at a nice hotel. I offered to buy her dinner, but she had just eaten with her family. We went to the room and talked on the bed for over an hour just getting comfortable with each other and then the fun began. Incredible to be with an 18 year old gorgeous girl!! I got her a gift of lingerie and got to see it modeled and them got some pics of it later. Meeting her again in 2 weeks.

Question- should I care that I know she is seeing other guys or at least looking? I guess the answer is no as long as I am getting what I want out of it.[/QUOTE]I always tell the girl (and this is only if you BB), to please always always always use a condom with everyone else (so I don't have to). If a girl is a real NP she won't be doing anyone else anyway unless she has a BF that was there before you. And a real real NP only has sex with one guy at a time, many will become exclusive by default (not to say this one is or will be).

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2257045]For anyone that's a member of SA you likely received an offer to sign up for this affiliated site. I did and I did sign up about three weeks ago. Most of the ads were the same women on SA (but not all). I was turned off by the requirement to buy credits in order to send or respond to an offer so I didn't buy. Today (must be the full moon) I bit and bought the basic package of credits. Already have three dates planned out of it and at reasonable prices. One is a preggo (not in her profile, revealed after contact). Kinky. Anybody else TOFFT team on this site? I will report my experiences when they go down.[/QUOTE]But have not paid the fees to respond to offers. You are right, a lot of cross over traffic. Great that you will let us know how you liked the dates, have fun!

OK, love reading the posts but frustrated that I can't determine all the euphemisms / acronyms.

I've seen SA listed a lot. Assume its a web site, but can't figure it out. I know there is some prohibition about referencing "competing" sites.

FC: Full Contact? "Full Course" My best guesses. Wish someone would update the ABBREVIATIONS list of all these new stuff.

MG / M&G meet and greet. Got it.

But Enjoy the reading and I am envious of some of you!

[QUOTE=BeardedMan67;2256822]Guys- just a follow up to let you know how first date went. Met her at a nice hotel. I offered to buy her dinner, but she had just eaten with her family. We went to the room and talked on the bed for over an hour just getting comfortable with each other and then the fun began. Incredible to be with an 18 year old gorgeous girl!! I got her a gift of lingerie and got to see it modeled and them got some pics of it later. Meeting her again in 2 weeks.

Question- should I care that I know she is seeing other guys or at least looking? I guess the answer is no as long as I am getting what I want out of it.[/QUOTE]I like to have my SB's full attention for emotional and safety reasons. Like Hollywood I would require at least that she use condoms with others, but how do you enforce that? I guess in the end we have to assume that they are seeing others just as we are doing. OTOH if you are paying over $1000 / month then it is reasonable for a non greedy girl to provide monogamy. Just like our need for sex, girls' need for money is endless. It is too tempting and easy for them to add another guy or two to the rolls.

A case in point. I am working up a 9/10 20 yr old. We have chemistry from the M&G and have only the FC date to do, but she lives 2 hrs away. She required platonia, but I think that is a moving target. She is searching and has a live-in couples gig on the table (she is very frank about it). It actually would bring her to my city where I could see her on the side. She says the people are OK with that. It takes the support requirement off the table for me and perhaps my allowance can be just for fun, and therefore cheaper and in my price range. But I don't like the thought that she is live-in meat for others to bang at will and on a frequent basis. So I am getting sloppy seconds.

So to second your concern Beard, what is one to do? Like you I guess I will just try to ignore her other activities and enjoy her. What does the committee think?

[QUOTE=RedBred;2256392]My guess is that we SD's are not seeing the promotional material the websites are aiming at young women. It would not surprise me if such material makes it sound like there are young millionaires who cannot get dates and are looking on the site for women just to spend time with. This is how they get young women to sign up ensuring a steady flow of new ones for us. Some women adjust their expectations; others just drop off. Either way, I don't have a problem with it.

RB.[/QUOTE]Spot on. I had a nice long chat with a POT where there was no chemistry, but she's smart as a whip. The young girls think there's a ton of 30-something, movie-star looking guys willing to drop big bucks on them. We compared some notes. In my area on SA, there is 1 SD for every 3 (actually 3. 25) potential SBs. 80% of the SD's have a listed income of 200 k or less. 90% are 40 or over.

Many of the youngsters are asking 3-5 k month maintenance to open. So these girls think they are going to get 36-60 k a year in post-tax dollars from guys making 200 k or less? Gently explaining those facts has not done me much good. (Yet the girls that have turned their nose up at my counter are still actively looking weeks later, based on their activity).

Unfortunately—around here at least—most of them seem to eventually drop off rather than get with reality.

So the local news chanel is running promo's for their Monday night big story. They are looking into SB's and were showing screenshots of SA along with clips from interviews with a couple young black women saying they would never go back to regular dating. One, who was not that attractive claimed she had gotten 10 k last month out of seven different men. I am thinking I would have passed if she showed up for a M&G.

Someone must be paying stupid numbers to some of these women. Anyways the story might be interesting. It focuses on college student women, and my source at the news said the idea came from an intern who claimed she had friends doing it (I suspect her talking in the third party may have concealed that she did it).

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2257074]But have not paid the fees to respond to offers. You are right, a lot of cross over traffic. Great that you will let us know how you liked the dates, have fun![/QUOTE]There is a ton of crossover from SA, and if you buy the cheapest credit package ($50), and bid one girl down to $20 (good luck with that. I've gotten one girl down to $30, the rest have wanted in the $50-80 ranee) once you meet up you've already spent more than you would for a month on SA. Plus. The girls are expecting the cash just for showing up for a M&G. WTF?

I've been on one date with a girl from WYP (see posts 7471 and 7480), and set up another one. I got held up at work and had to cancel on her at the last minute. To which she replied that she expected to be paid for the hour she wasted sitting and waiting for me at the coffee shop (why did she show up an hour early? And that "even though I used a program (google voice) she'd traced my number" and would tell my wife unless I sent her double what we'd agreed on through PayPal. I told her I'd send it to her. If she could tell me my real name to prove that she knew what she thought she did. She blustered and threatened. But never did reply with my name. That was a week ago, and I haven't heard a peep from her since. This is her SA profile: [URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/ecde1929/view[/URL].

If I could do it over again I'd save myself time, money and frustration and buy (another) month on SA. They're essentially the same girls (every one I've communicated with, whether we agreed on a bid or not, has also been on SA), and there's not the supposition of "cash for coffee" when you meet.

Just my two cents.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2257439] One, who was not that attractive claimed she had gotten 10 k last month out of seven different men. I am thinking I would have passed if she showed up for a M&G.

Someone must be paying stupid numbers to some of these women. A[/QUOTE]She is an UTR if not an out and out escort. There is a lot of money in escorting. A "friend" I know makes $175 K / yr and I'm sure some of the higher class girls can do better than that.

If an SB is seeing an SD who is helping her out in exchange for companionship then to me that is a Sugar relationship. If the SB is seeing multiple Daddies then purely and simply she is escorting. Truth be told they are all escorts if they are taking money in return for sex even if they only have 1 client.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2257477]She is an UTR if not an out and out escort. There is a lot of money in escorting. A "friend" I know makes $175 K / yr and I'm sure some of the higher class girls can do better than that.

If an SB is seeing an SD who is helping her out in exchange for companionship then to me that is a Sugar relationship. If the SB is seeing multiple Daddies then purely and simply she is escorting. Truth be told they are all escorts if they are taking money in return for sex even if they only have 1 client.[/QUOTE]Then in the interview the girl goes on to say there is nothing wrong with it, it.

"it's not like I am an escort getting paid for sex".

Its been a whole month since I have even touched my x "the princess". I see her posting a lot of stuff about wanting to get with hot girls on her IG and twitter. Still talk to her daily. I watched a sex tape we made at the height of our romance. It made me a little sad, as I still miss her, but even at her hottest you would have had to multiply that by 2 or 3 just for me to have stayed the course. Hence the breakup.

My "MILF" is finally finally moving into her new apt. Even if I do spend a $ a date at least it will all go to her and not the room. I calculate that she has averaged about .8 a date since I met her because of paying for the no-tel. So she will actually be getting a raise and I will save about .6 a date (the cost of the room minus the .2 more for her).

My webcam baby (pictured) got a $$$$$$ tip at work the other day (12,425 tokens to be exact). Those guys be crazy. Another new addiction of mine. Webcam Girls. You can watch them for free all day and night. LOL. A lot of guys try to coax the girls into meeting. In rare circumstances it does happen. Talk about pouring on the sugar. These guys will spend thousands online to get a girls attention. Virtual romance is an expensive habit. But I like it because you get to see real girls playing with themselves. Very informative as they rarely fake orgasm. I have seen sex toys I didn't even know existed. Too bad she lives so far away. She would be my new GF if she was nearby. We get along great. And she really is adorable. And the sugar is not her prime motivation.

My little girl "S" is going to try to dance nude tonite at a local club. Hope it works out for her. She still won't take a dime from me even though she is hungry and not properly clothed. And she is now a full time student as well.

Had a couple of freebie makeout dates that went no where afterward. One was just a horny girl that I got "lucky" with. Do this stuff enough and anything and everything will happen.

I did meet one new NP first timer that I had awesome sex with twice and paid her $.5 because she really was worth it. But its been tough trying to see her. A combination of her schedule and wanting to get paid more. She agreed to keep taking the $.5, but she is no where to be seen.

And life goes on.

[QUOTE=VaSD1;2257045]For anyone that's a member of SA you likely received an offer to sign up for this affiliated site. I did and I did sign up about three weeks ago. Most of the ads were the same women on SA (but not all). I was turned off by the requirement to buy credits in order to send or respond to an offer so I didn't buy. Today (must be the full moon) I bit and bought the basic package of credits. Already have three dates planned out of it and at reasonable prices. One is a preggo (not in her profile, revealed after contact). Kinky. Anybody else TOFFT team on this site? I will report my experiences when they go down.[/QUOTE]IMHO. Well with WYP there is more feeling of a date but I think MUCH less chance of nookie.

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2257074]But have not paid the fees to respond to offers. You are right, a lot of cross over traffic. Great that you will let us know how you liked the dates, have fun![/QUOTE]Met first one today. Emailed a few times and made sure we were on the same page as far as expectations. Set up today's meet and she replies back that she is 20 weeks pregnant. Went ahead with meeting her at her apartment (yay. No room, and no coffee). She was as her pics but with the expected bulge in front. Slim girl, 25, long dark hair and gorgeous blue eyes. I just had to hit it for the kink. For $ I was happy. Might do again but having troubles keeping up with regulars and new M&Gs. Still made a nice memory and this one is one of the few that's not on SA (although she didn't know she could be on SA without paying if she uploaded a pic. Might see her there soon). One down, two to go.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2251728]Gents,


Then this girl who's online shine has quickly worn off: just another busy single mom. There's nothing wrong with that, but that wasn't exactly what the profile led one to believe. Turns out she's only available when her kids are in school, which happens to be when I work. Not sure how that's going to work out.

And recently I had a drink with this 20-something girl. She did arrive 25 min late, which pisses me off to no end because I run a tight schedule. You better believe that next time I'll schedule such that she might have to wait instead of me rushing. She is super cute, better than her pics. Seems like a hard working student. Wasn't too fond of her not maintaining eye contact for more than 1% of the time. Let's see what her feedback from our meeting was. I'm not too optimistic.

I presumably have breakfast lined up with a MILF that is pretty far out of the way. Seems cumbersome, but I want to see if she'll move to the FC more quickly. And something I have yet to figure out with a 19 yr old student who at first wanted to do steak & wine dinner before I suggested drinks or something that quick. I have no desire to be in a 90 min first date. That chick is really artsy and that's usually not my type, so I need an escape route.
[/QUOTE]Had coffee with the young MILF. That chick is a poor communicator and disorganized. She had me wait 20 min at the coffee shop since she didn't leave her place until I arrived even though it was a place she picked and I was crystal clear about my arrival time. Turns out she's not my type at all, and she has this story of a friend of hers getting a free BMW from her SD. Well, good luck with that. I'm not even sure I'd do her for free.

The out of the way MILF flaked out on me the morning of our date. She presumably forgot a charity bike ride she was to be in. Needless to say I've since lost her number.

The 19 yr old student likewise vanished on the day we had tentatively picked to M&G. Because she's much more my type, I'll play this one cool and try again at a later time.

On the plus side, I had a 2nd date with the 20-something student. We went shopping where she helped me pick something I was looking for (nothing for her), and then had an early, but high-end dinner (if I'm going to eat out, might as well make it good). I dropped her off at her place and we talked in the car for a bit. She did not respond to my signals, but in a clearly clueless manner, not in a GPS manner. She did eventually connect the dots on her own via email later that day, thank goodness. And she's open to going to the FC on our next date, which should be next week sometime. She's also been writing dirty emails, which is a distinct change of pace for her.

I'm now beginning to understand why experienced folks like Hollywood are really explicit very early: some of those girls literally don't know what an arrangement is for. I was worried of scaring them off before, but then I'm paying with my time, which is precious. I'd be curious to know what folks lay down at the M&G, do's, don'ts, expectations and offers. My guess is that you have to lay it out there. One difficulty I don't know if other SDs share with me is that I do not show a face picture on SA. Girls get to the M&G blind, which I'm now thinking costs me a date as they need a bit of time to figure out how they feel about me. Anybody else setting blind dates due to privacy needs?

SM.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2257539]Its been a whole month since I have even touched my x "the princess". I see her posting a lot of stuff about wanting to get with hot girls on her IG and twitter. Still talk to her daily. I watched a sex tape we made at the height of our romance. It made me a little sad, as I still miss her, but even at her hottest you would have had to multiply that by 2 or 3 just for me to have stayed the course. Hence the breakup.

My "MILF" is finally finally moving into her new apt. Even if I do spend a $ a date at least it will all go to her and not the room. I calculate that she has averaged about .8 a date since I met her because of paying for the no-tel. So she will actually be getting a raise and I will save about .6 a date (the cost of the room minus the .2 more for her).

My webcam baby (pictured) got a $$$$$$ tip at work the other day (12,425 tokens to be exact). Those guys be crazy. Another new addiction of mine. Webcam Girls. You can watch them for free all day and night. LOL. A lot of guys try to coax the girls into meeting. In rare circumstances it does happen. Talk about pouring on the sugar. These guys will spend thousands online to get a girls attention. Virtual romance is an expensive habit. But I like it because you get to see real girls playing with themselves. Very informative as they rarely fake orgasm. I have seen sex toys I didn't even know existed. Too bad she lives so far away. She would be my new GF if she was nearby. We get along great. And she really is adorable. And the sugar is not her prime motivation.

My little girl "S" is going to try to dance nude tonite at a local club. Hope it works out for her. She still won't take a dime from me even though she is hungry and not properly clothed. And she is now a full time student as well.

Had a couple of freebie makeout dates that went no where afterward. One was just a horny girl that I got "lucky" with. Do this stuff enough and anything and everything will happen.

I did meet one new NP first timer that I had awesome sex with twice and paid her $.5 because she really was worth it. But its been tough trying to see her. A combination of her schedule and wanting to get paid more. She agreed to keep taking the $.5, but she is no where to be seen.

And life goes on.[/QUOTE]I had an overnight date with a webcam girl before and I had a great time, but it was pricey! The bowel has been kind of barren for me lately. I had a nice overnight date with a 21 yr old 5'8 half Italian / half Filipino model from Atlanta with enhanced 32 DDDs, but it was a little pricey. I did break a personal record. I had only had sex four times in 24 hours before and we managed five times in 24 hours (three times that morning before she left! I have a brunch date with a 5'10 blonde 22 yr old Mississippi State sorority girl on Sunday. I hope it goes well. She is gorgeous and I love blondes. Can you also tell that I like them tall?

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2258036]I had an overnight date with a webcam girl before and I had a great time, but it was pricey! [/QUOTE]Was that a SB or did you entice her off the webcam site?

I don't know what a girl would think if you sent this with your pics. Haven't tried it yet.

But I am going to.

I enjoy getting to know someone before we get intimate. That part of what I think makes sugar dating different than escorting. I usually explain that in any relationship there is, at some level, an expectation of intimacy and financial support. I make it clear the two are tied together, but I'm willing to get to know someone before going to that level. Most of the time, we go to the next level on the first date. LOL The newbies need to feel like it is their choice.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2257815]Had coffee with the young MILF. That chick is a poor communicator and disorganized. She had me wait 20 min at the coffee shop since she didn't leave her place until I arrived even though it was a place she picked and I was crystal clear about my arrival time. Turns out she's not my type at all, and she has this story of a friend of hers getting a free BMW from her SD. Well, good luck with that. I'm not even sure I'd do her for free.

The out of the way MILF flaked out on me the morning of our date. She presumably forgot a charity bike ride she was to be in. Needless to say I've since lost her number.

The 19 yr old student likewise vanished on the day we had tentatively picked to M&G. Because she's much more my type, I'll play this one cool and try again at a later time.

On the plus side, I had a 2nd date with the 20-something student. We went shopping where she helped me pick something I was looking for (nothing for her), and then had an early, but high-end dinner (if I'm going to eat out, might as well make it good). I dropped her off at her place and we talked in the car for a bit. She did not respond to my signals, but in a clearly clueless manner, not in a GPS manner. She did eventually connect the dots on her own via email later that day, thank goodness. And she's open to going to the FC on our next date, which should be next week sometime. She's also been writing dirty emails, which is a distinct change of pace for her.

I'm now beginning to understand why experienced folks like Hollywood are really explicit very early: some of those girls literally don't know what an arrangement is for. I was worried of scaring them off before, but then I'm paying with my time, which is precious. I'd be curious to know what folks lay down at the M&G, do's, don'ts, expectations and offers. My guess is that you have to lay it out there. One difficulty I don't know if other SDs share with me is that I do not show a face picture on SA. Girls get to the M&G blind, which I'm now thinking costs me a date as they need a bit of time to figure out how they feel about me. Anybody else setting blind dates due to privacy needs?

SM.[/QUOTE]

" I will not be taking my clothes off, you won't be touching me, we won't be having sex, I will not be giving you hand jobs or blow jobs or anything like that. This is for people who get off on spoiling a girl and having a good time. ".

Whoa! You can't make it any clearer than that. Some guys might take that on as a challenge. Not me. I ask that question again "are there guys out there who pay these girls? I guess theyfigure they have notheing to lose taking a swing at it.

Got an UTR in RVA if any of you locals are interested.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2258067]Was that a SB or did you entice her off the webcam site?[/QUOTE]I enticed her to come visit, but she had been a SB before. It was fun. She brought a bunch of different outfits.

I might be one to take a swing at one like this. I'd usually lead with a big compliment, express disappointment that she is not into any intimacy (in ahumorous way) and wish her the best of luck in her search.

I've had a few come back and say they only say that to get rid of the "creeps", but for the right guy will consider intimacy. If they then compliment me. Go time! LOL.

I think some of these girls try to keep a morale facade that they quickly lose in private.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2258420]" I will not be taking my clothes off, you won't be touching me, we won't be having sex, I will not be giving you hand jobs or blow jobs or anything like that. This is for people who get off on spoiling a girl and having a good time. ".

Whoa! You can't make it any clearer than that. Some guys might take that on as a challenge. Not me. I ask that question again "are there guys out there who pay these girls? I guess theyfigure they have notheing to lose taking a swing at it.

Got an UTR in RVA if any of you locals are interested.[/QUOTE]

That or similar response is not uncommon from my experience on SA. Someone has these young girls thinking they are worth 300 or more a date just to show up as arm candy for old rich guys. Info think many of them finally come around to the realities of life in the bowl. Between that and the GPS girls, it's truly a challenge finding a good long-term arrangement. But when you do, it's worth the effort.

I too would like to know if anybody is actually paying just for the date and no FC. I think it's rare here in RVA.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2258420]" I will not be taking my clothes off, you won't be touching me, we won't be having sex, I will not be giving you hand jobs or blow jobs or anything like that. This is for people who get off on spoiling a girl and having a good time. ".

Whoa! You can't make it any clearer than that. Some guys might take that on as a challenge. Not me. I ask that question again "are there guys out there who pay these girls? I guess theyfigure they have notheing to lose taking a swing at it.

Got an UTR in RVA if any of you locals are interested.[/QUOTE]

I never pay a girl for a M + G. I will pay for dinner and / or drinks, but make it clear intimacy and financial support are tied.

[QUOTE=Hsrams;2258525]That or similar response is not uncommon from my experience on SA. Someone has these young girls thinking they are worth 300 or more a date just to show up as arm candy for old rich guys. Info think many of them finally come around to the realities of life in the bowl. Between that and the GPS girls, it's truly a challenge finding a good long-term arrangement. But when you do, it's worth the effort.

I too would like to know if anybody is actually paying just for the date and no FC. I think it's rare here in RVA.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gogreen;2256698]On top of those plutonic arrangement seeking SBs.

For those SD's with SO's, are you guys upfront with being married and needing discretion? I don't know what it is but lately it seems in my market all the potentials are not wanting to deal with a married guy. My game doesn't seem to be the problem, but I am upfront that I'm married, have no intention of leaving and need discretion. The initial conversations go fine but once the subject of being married comes up, they back away and often say they believe in marriage's sanctity and can't proceed. Granted many of them seem like first-timers. Maybe I just got to be more patient and wait til they deal with some of the creepy single SD's and see stable married SD's can be a good option too. Just wanted to vent a little and take the pulse elsewhere.[/QUOTE]I'm not married but have a long term GF. I really don't discuss it at all with most of them, and I typically don't ask about their non-SD dating activities. In a few cases I have and I've found they can sometimes be really cool about everything. Usually I would only open up about my private life after getting to know them better. For example, one of my girls was 18, but she was the oldest of many sisters and I quickly found out she had the maturity and level-headedness that most 35 year olds don't have. I can spot high-achieving people a mile away and she is the type that will actually amount to something in her career later. So I decided to open up to her about my own situation and I let her know she should feel free to talk to me about her boyfriends her age if she wants to, and she certainly did. It's amazing what you can learn about their lifestyle from insider intel like that.

She was not really typical of my preferred type, though. I prefer the "true" SBs -- the ones that are not looking for per-date payment as much as they just have a thing for older successful men and want a boyfriend that fits that criteria. They aren't necessarily expecting a multi-millionaire as much as someone who can take care of them to the point they could have a nice life without working at all. What they really have in mind varies from girl to girl, but to some of them, this means if they are your SB they would be moving in with you sometime soon. Yeah I know, yikes. Or minimum they are expecting to be set up in an apartment long enough to see where things go. I think this may be the type you've been encountering. Those are the types that will care if you're married, because it immediately means they are excluded from "the jackpot" (potentially finding a successful guy they really enjoy being with, marrying him and having security going forward whether they stay married or not). They know that if you're married, it means they will have to adjust their schedule to accommodate yours more often than not (you're going to say "sorry I can't see you" when they need someone to cry or complain about life to. Your emotional support energy is already being consumed by someone else and you're not available in that sense).

But then again there are completely different categories of girls. As Hollywood said, some of them will PREFER married guys, because they may already be in love with someone themselves, and just need extra sources of easy income and the ego stroking they get from being an SB, but they don't want a clinger or someone interfering with the rest of their social life.

Then there are UTR girls and escorts. They couldn't care less because it's a per-date transaction with them.

It just depends on what kind of girl you're going after. The spectrum of types of girls you'll encounter can be dizzying. If you're consistently meeting one type, or seeing recurring patterns in their response or behavior, there may be something in your profile that's attracting only that type, or perhaps it could be your conversational approach that is resulting in a pattern.

One thing I've always tried to do is find ways of making my profile appealing (or at least non-objectionable) while remaining generic. In other words avoid too much specificity. I learned a long time ago to use the same strategy in online civy dating. For example, if I write in my profile that I'm looking for someone for a LTR, it's a bad idea because there are going to be some girls who read it who were just looking for a fun fuck buddy, and if they're hot then I'm all in (in more ways than one). However, if I write "I'm not looking for anything serious" I might repel girls who are looking for something serious. But wait, just because they ARE looking for something serious doesn't mean that they couldn't potentially find themselves hooking up for some casual sex. What they set out to find and what they end up with are often not the same thing.

It all comes down to marketing yourself really. If you see a common pattern in the prospects you're attracting, and they aren't what you want, change your tactic for attracting them.

[QUOTE=Gogreen;2256698]On top of those plutonic arrangement seeking SBs.

For those SD's with SO's, are you guys upfront with being married and needing discretion? I don't know what it is but lately it seems in my market all the potentials are not wanting to deal with a married guy. My game doesn't seem to be the problem, but I am upfront that I'm married, have no intention of leaving and need discretion. The initial conversations go fine but once the subject of being married comes up, they back away and often say they believe in marriage's sanctity and can't proceed. Granted many of them seem like first-timers. Maybe I just got to be more patient and wait til they deal with some of the creepy single SD's and see stable married SD's can be a good option too. Just wanted to vent a little and take the pulse elsewhere.[/QUOTE]I am always upfront about my marital status. And so far I have met zero resistance. My SB2 was oddly interested in what my wife looked like and how often we had sex and what the sex was like. She just seemed to assume that guys get bored when they get older and it was only natural to turn to young woman. When I brought her back to my house (yes I am that daring and scared of hotels and paper trails) she chose to do the deed in the master bedroom instead of the guest room because its was naughtier. SB1 also did not care and actually seemed to be turned on by it. She told me she fantasized about being the mistress and I don't think she was lying.

I have had extensive chats with probably 10 other woman in the last 2 months and not a one cares. Two of my POTs who I chat with on practically a daily basis both seem like the type that are doing this because they want male attention as much as they want some extra cash They are not desperate for money and but it could help with everyday expenses and make their life easier. I get the sense from both of them that they are potentially husband hunting if the right comes along. They are both great, normal, fun to talk to woman. I am not sure if I am lucky or unlucky that our schedules never mesh. I feel like they are the type to lure you in.

You can't turn a h o into a housewife, but can you turn one into a PT SB? I am under no illusions about any exclusivity in the tradition sense. But exclusivity in the sense that you do get treated better while hopefully paying less. I sent this to a pro I met on the sd site that has been trying to get me to pay the $$ for the quick in and out. We are blessed in our fair city with an abundance of smoking hot UTR and pro girls at $$ for as far as the eye can see. And many at $ per HH. If that's your game you would be in hog heaven here.

But that is all you are going to get, and most guys wouldn't want anything more from that type of girl. But you know there is or was some guy they were giving it to for free because they thought that guy thought they were special. The trick is to find one that has some emotional needs. I know that's what most of you guys avoid, but its what I pursue. So anyway I got this pro believing I am interested in something a little off the beaten path. Will I get her. Who knows. But I love A/B testing and marketing strategies in general. Some people say I have a flair for writing the type of ad copy that gets under peoples skin, and as I am not the greedy type I share this with anyone that cares to use it.

SHE ASKS THE PERENNIAL QUESTION.

"So what are you actually looking for".

I ANSWER.

"When I can find it. Something more than a one night stand. I usually get along best with the type of girl most guys don't get mentally and can't satisfy physically. And that most girls don't like in general.

I like girls with personality. Something your pics make me think you have a lot of.

I love a (your description of her here) girl.

I'm very chill and the live and let live type. All I do everyday is work and socialize. If you saw my life a little closer it would be a little clearer.

So lets just say I am looking for something more than a hook-up but less than a girlfriend. But I have had a few of those as well when its right, but never at the expense of anyones freedom.

At the moment I am single, but rarely lonely. And just like you I want the best I can find for myself. The only way to get that is to check things out when they look like they might be worth checking.

Sometimes you just have to look past what's most likely to happen and hope maybe something more will. ".

Just change the words to better suit your individual objectives. BTW... the girl I sent this to is someone I have offered my usual $ to multiple times over the last few months. I never stalk girls online but she just happens to be a 10 for me. Most girls would either ignore me, tell me off, or just laugh. But now I got her asking me that perennial question.

So in my travels the old you got me pregnant scam was very popular. Has anyone dealt with that here?

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2257815]
I'm now beginning to understand why experienced folks like Hollywood are really explicit very early: some of those girls literally don't know what an arrangement is for. I was worried of scaring them off before, but then I'm paying with my time, which is precious. I'd be curious to know what folks lay down at the M&G, do's, don'ts, expectations and offers. My guess is that you have to lay it out there. One difficulty I don't know if other SDs share with me is that I do not show a face picture on SA. Girls get to the M&G blind, which I'm now thinking costs me a date as they need a bit of time to figure out how they feel about me. Anybody else setting blind dates due to privacy needs?

SM.[/QUOTE]I don't post a pic on the SD sites, since I currently have a jealous GF, and, previously, because I was married (a long time ago, now, thankfully!) In the time where I didn't have a reason not to post a pic, I did find that, in my few dabblings, having a picture cut down on the number of responses, but also sharply cut down on the number of flakes or disappearances, possibly because they knew from the first "Hello," what you look like, and set their expectations accordingly. (I'm just an average looking guy. Not scary looking, but definitely the kind of guy who needs to use PUA tactics to hook up with civvies, because I'm not going to get there on my looks!

However, I do not go to any blind dates, and I don't expect the girls to, either. In an age of cellphones, there's no reason for not exchanging a picture, and, let's face it, the pros don't care at all about what you look like, but, in the Sugar Bowl, a girl is not going to be interested if you're too far outside of her expectations. Those expectations are significantly lowered from their civilian dating, given that the sugar makes everything sweeter, but they are still there. I like to move the conversation to regular email as soon as I've determined that I'm not talking to a nigerian scammer, and I offer "give me your email address, and I'll send you current pics, so you won't be wondering what I look like. " If they disappear after that, I'm not their type. Sure, I might have been able to sweet talk them at the M&G, but why would I want to waste my time and $ with a girl who would have rejected me up-front if she saw my picture?

On the other side of this, I do tend to say Hello, to girls on the sites who don't have pictures, and it has been a surprisingly mixed bag. I say "surprisingly" because I would expect that most without pictures would be. Less than desirable. Usually, that's exactly correct. Other times, however, their appearance is fine, and, in one case, very much my type. (The good old days. A SYT from West Virginia, 19, who I saw for a little less than a year before I broke it off, who was willing to meet in the middle for $$ and a hotel room for the night, whether I stayed or not, because she didn't want to have to drive back without sleep. Yes, I have let the girls keep the rooms, if they're willing to use their I'd to check in, and I pay cash. If the hotel room keeps a cash deposit, that comes out of the sugar for the girl, since she can recover it the next morning.).

In any event, I only tend to regret it when I allude to a meet-and-greet before I have seen the girl's picture, since some of them will jump at the implied chance before sending their pictures, leaving me with a meeting with someone with whom I probably wouldn't have agreed to see if I had seen her picture, first. Yes, I do still show up for those, because I think we all have a responsibility to not flake, and one quick meal where you're polite and complimentary to a lady you'll be "too busy" to see again is not a big sacrifice to make, for playing in the bowl.

Oh, as for "laying it out there" at the M&G, I'm still a member of the paranoid crowd who would never deign to discuss price and services, so there's a very simple rule I go by: I NEVER mention sex explicitly, and I do not encourage steamy emails or texts, since I've found that the more steamy stuff she sends, the more likely she is to flake (I think they get carried away, and then are afraid of living up to the heightened expectations that they have set.) Admittedly, I don't have any particularly special requirements in mind, so YMMV if you do. However, if they're playing in the bowl, they already understand the expectations, and they know those expectations are NOT platonic, no matter what the confused girls with the recently discussed ads say. I may refer to "private time, when we're ready to move to that level," but I welcome as many dinners and dates as they'd like "for us to get comfortable with each other. " (Unsaid: in most cases, that winds up being the first or second meeting, but if it goes to 3 with no move towards the FC, I will not be "free" for another meeting. If I just wanted civilian dating, I wouldn't be talking to an SB.).

I do tend to set ballpark expectations prior to the meet for eventual support, and I put it in terms of covering a few bills, but not the mortgage on their mansion. If they don't flinch at that, they will usually accept $ to $. 5 per meeting, and then it's up to you to see what your schedule / budget allows. If they have specific $ expectations that they present, I do the quick division to break it down to $ per meeting, and I tell them matter-of-factly about how often we'd have to meet, monthly, to fulfill their needs. If their needs are outside of my range, I use (I think it was HG's method) and tell them politely that they should absolutely be able to get whatever they need, that I would not be the one whose budget is able to handle that, but that I hope they'll keep me in mind if they have a quiet evening sometime.

The laying it out there, for me, pretty much comes down to whether or not they'll accept $ to $. 5 per meeting (nothing explicit ever mentioned, just "private time" or "quiet time" and whether or not our schedules will allow that. During these discussions, it does come into play whether or not they have their own transportation (or will I have to pick them up every time,) and whether or not they have their own place (or taking care of a hotel will come into play, in which case I need to consider how much I can offer for support.) You may find that even the ones with kids will soon discover that they can drop the kids off at grandma's for free, so you can visit them in their home, and let them enjoy the money that would have been going to the hotel. Speaking of babysitters, when you have a GPS one who tries to negotiate your payment of the sitter into the sugar, I politely tell them that their babysitter is their responsibility, and I'll agree to not charge them for my expenses for coming to see them, as well If they're offended by this (and they probably won't be. It's a negotiation technique on their part,) it's better that they walk, rather than having to suffer through them trying to bleed you dry via a thousand cuts. (The ones who ask for you to cover the babysitter will find more things that you should cover for them, as well. Yes, I speak from bitter experience on this.).

In any event, I go into M&Gs with the expectation that she already knows the score, so all we have left to discuss is $ per meeting ("until we're comfortable enough to be in a monthly arrangement". Be forewarned that when you do enter a monthly plan, the SB may suddenly become much less available, and will have to be cut off,) and scheduling. Assume they know that this is going to entail more than platonic friendship, since, hey, they're at the M&G with you, and you're not offering them anything for just going out on a date with you, right? .

My $0. 02.

Girl A:

Sexy as fuck, orgasms endlessly, gets off sucking your dick and is turned on insatiably with all things sex. One of those girls put on earth to have sex. But she is sensitive, sweet, shy and not aggressive. She likes to be dominated, use all toys, and we leave each other marked up with bites, bruises, scratches. The sex is out of this world, most intense ever, nothing off limits and I know I won't find another like her. Downside? She wants a real relationship, is VERY insecure, needy and seeks reassurance 24/7 I'm going to stay around. I mean all fucking day and night. But she is so sweet and innocent and submissive about it.

Girl B:

Enjoys the sex, but she knows why she is there. To get me off and take a little enjoyment out of it for herself. Equally as beautiful as girl A, but not orgasmic like her. She's more of a get it done and when I cum, we are done, etc. She does not want a relationship, is not needy and leaves me the fuck alone in between.

How can I keep girl A around for a long time without this turning into a huge fucking mess again? Because it's right there now. She wants her entire life with me. I naturally do not want this with her, but I also can't walk away from the sex and yeah the emotional give and take is pretty fun too.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2260072]Girl A:

Sexy as fuck, orgasms endlessly, gets off sucking your dick and is turned on insatiably with all things sex. One of those girls put on earth to have sex. But she is sensitive, sweet, shy and not aggressive. She likes to be dominated, use all toys, and we leave each other marked up with bites, bruises, scratches. The sex is out of this world, most intense ever, nothing off limits and I know I won't find another like her. Downside? She wants a real relationship, is VERY insecure, needy and seeks reassurance 24/7 I'm going to stay around. I mean all fucking day and night. But she is so sweet and innocent and submissive about it.

Girl B:

Enjoys the sex, but she knows why she is there. To get me off and take a little enjoyment out of it for herself. Equally as beautiful as girl A, but not orgasmic like her. She's more of a get it done and when I cum, we are done, etc. She does not want a relationship, is not needy and leaves me the fuck alone in between.

How can I keep girl A around for a long time without this turning into a huge fucking mess again? Because it's right there now. She wants her entire life with me. I naturally do not want this with her, but I also can't walk away from the sex and yeah the emotional give and take is pretty fun too.[/QUOTE]I love quality problems. BTW... if girl A is a true submissive she wants you to be happy at any cost. Meaning whatever you say goes. But you would have to tell her how much you love daddys little girl everyday. And how much daddy misses her but that you are a busy executive with a lot of responsibilities and maybe another little girl or 2 to take care of as well. That you chose her out of all the other little girls that need a daddy and she is your special princess. I have four of them right now, all exclusive for now. But its a lot of emotional upkeep except for my MILF. This is the only scenario I am even interested in anymore if its going to be a LTR. And it keeps the STD risk to the bare minimum as they are only playing with you and no one else.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2260072]Girl A:

Sexy as fuck, orgasms endlessly, gets off sucking your dick and is turned on insatiably with all things sex. One of those girls put on earth to have sex. But she is sensitive, sweet, shy and not aggressive. She likes to be dominated, use all toys, and we leave each other marked up with bites, bruises, scratches. The sex is out of this world, most intense ever, nothing off limits and I know I won't find another like her. Downside? She wants a real relationship, is VERY insecure, needy and seeks reassurance 24/7 I'm going to stay around. I mean all fucking day and night. But she is so sweet and innocent and submissive about it.

Girl B:

Enjoys the sex, but she knows why she is there. To get me off and take a little enjoyment out of it for herself. Equally as beautiful as girl A, but not orgasmic like her. She's more of a get it done and when I cum, we are done, etc. She does not want a relationship, is not needy and leaves me the fuck alone in between.

How can I keep girl A around for a long time without this turning into a huge fucking mess again? Because it's right there now. She wants her entire life with me. I naturally do not want this with her, but I also can't walk away from the sex and yeah the emotional give and take is pretty fun too.[/QUOTE]Hmmm That is a no brainer Deeds. Door #1 is it! We all dream of a girl like her but * and there is always a but* it depends on the depth of involvement in your life. The ultimate question is when you want separation will she trash your life? A woman scorned and all that. My advice is to slowly back off on communication so that you are not endlessly on a string at her beck and call. Take a little longer to text back etc. Train her to give you some space. I forget but it seems you are single? If married you can use that excuse. If single you just have to explain that you need ethernet space.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2260116]Hmmm That is a no brainer Deeds. Door #1 is it! We all dream of a girl like her but * and there is always a but* it depends on the depth of involvement in your life. The ultimate question is when you want separation will she trash your life? A woman scorned and all that. My advice is to slowly back off on communication so that you are not endlessly on a string at her beck and call. Take a little longer to text back etc. Train her to give you some space. I forget but it seems you are single? If married you can use that excuse. If single you just have to explain that you need ethernet space.[/QUOTE]I agree with Fred. I might even try something more direct. Once upon a time I had to tell a GF to stop randomly calling me at work several times per day or else we'd break up because of that. It was never an issue after that. So, perhaps put it back on her that you need space to take care of business to then allow you to spend time with her?

[QUOTE=TravelingJohn#2;2259751]So in my travels the old you got me pregnant scam was very popular. Has anyone dealt with that here?[/QUOTE]In my adventures I've only dealt with this issue a handful of times. More often than not, I use the standard "can't be mine, I've been snipped. " (Which I haven't) but they suddenly stop the scam and within a few days they reach out with "sorry, false alarm" text, offering to meet up again. Usually I pass, unless it was all 9's across the board.

Ironically, only 1 was a true tale, which turns out she and her hubby had been trying to have kids and couldn't. Seems I helped out with our even knowing until a year later when she told me. Didn't want anything else from me, and seemed honestly grateful. She had moved outa state when her hubby was sent to another base.

Don't know if this helps, but has helped me avoid scams.

[QUOTE=Donatello;2260582]In my adventures I've only dealt with this issue a handful of times. More often than not, I use the standard "can't be mine, I've been snipped. " (Which I haven't) but they suddenly stop the scam and within a few days they reach out with "sorry, false alarm" text, offering to meet up again. Usually I pass, unless it was all 9's across the board.

Ironically, only 1 was a true tale, which turns out she and her hubby had been trying to have kids and couldn't. Seems I helped out with our even knowing until a year later when she told me. Didn't want anything else from me, and seemed honestly grateful. She had moved outa state when her hubby was sent to another base.

Don't know if this helps, but has helped me avoid scams.[/QUOTE]Donatello, did you ever have a test done to confirm you are the Paternal Adult? I don't know how long ago this episode happened but, hopefully, the SB won't get to a place in her life where She decides you need to get caught up on your Paternal financial responsibilities. Sounds like everything is cool now so that's good.

[QUOTE=Donatello;2260582]In my adventures I've only dealt with this issue a handful of times. More often than not, I use the standard "can't be mine, I've been snipped. " (Which I haven't) but they suddenly stop the scam and within a few days they reach out with "sorry, false alarm" text, offering to meet up again. Usually I pass, unless it was all 9's across the board.

.[/QUOTE]Good tip! Since I like playing bare back it is always a risk. I try to maintain distance so that they don'why know how to find me. And I try to make sure they are on BC, but who knows about that?

A girl I was last seeing over 1 year ago wrote that she had a baby which was conceived while I was seeing her. She said she and her then estranged husband got it on trying to rekindle the marriage and it did not work out. She never tried to say it was mine so I can only hope that it isn't and she will not come looking.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7358-News-and-Media-Reports&p=2260899&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2260899.

Local story about SA, they all acted like they were getting rich. One holds up a Luis Viton purse and claims she got it for just having dinner.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2261038][URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7358-News-and-Media-Reports&p=2260899&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2260899.

Local story about SA, they all acted like they were getting rich. One holds up a Luis Viton purse and claims she got it for just having dinner.[/QUOTE]"Johnson says the average student receives $3000 a month in gifts, travel and money. " This part is believable. Its just that most of the guys on this thread like to spread it around and not give it all to one girl.

Those on SA know that the whole membership payment system is weird at best. From my experience, you can't re-up until your previous membership runs out, which means that you go dark (ie not premium) for at least a little bit. So recently I ran out and didn't get around to re-upping for 4 days. When I finally did, I got something like 20 contacts within the first 24 hours. Mind you, this is with the same profile as before where I had to be a lot more pro-active. I will grant you that three quarters of the contacts were from hare brained chicks from out of state or out of the country, but there are about 5 potential ones in there. Including one I spoke to on the phone tonight with the hottest body I've seen on SA yet. Still a long way to go on that front thought.

Anyone else receive a flood of messages after updating their membership?