"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Hernando;1673480]SB : I view as a true amateur who seeks a relationship providing intimate services in addition to other relational experiences such as entertainment, travel, romance in return for an allowance. I differ from a lot of guys in that if she has 2 or more SDs that puts her in the pro class.[/QUOTE]Amateur: A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.

SB fits under this definition. Is being a SB her profession? If the answer is no she is a amateur.

Prostitution: The business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment.

SB fits under this definition also. Because she is in the practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment. See Hernado's definition: "seeks a relationship providing intimate services; blah, blah, blah"

A SB becomes a prostitute by definition the moment she accepts money for the "practice of providing sexual services to another person." If she is exclusive to you she becomes your "personal garden tool".

Is she an Amateur Prostitute? Yes she is. If she is a SB as a pastime rather than as a profession.

Gentlemen, let's not engage in self deception here. A strict interpretation of the definition leaves no room for whimsical rationalization of thought. We are all men here (with one known exception). Let's stick to logic and leave emotion to the our wives, girlfriends, SO's and SB's.

I am prepared to Stand and take my grade!

SubCmdr Out!

Commander, I respect and admire your wordcraft and avoidance of obfuscation.

I stand corrected. And I agree that a garden tool is _____a garden tool by any definition.

Sub,

While I said in an earlier post that I would absolutely defend any brother's right to speak his mind, I do feel like I want to comment on the vigor of your language, especially as it concerns what I feel to be the nuances of the pro / semi pro / utr / sb spectrum. You cannot, in all honesty, tell me that you believe you could offer any random SB you encounter, or for that fact, any woman you encounter, a wad of cash in exchange for sex, and that as long as you offered enough money, she would de facto agree. A certain percentage, perhaps a majority, would slap your face and head out the door. Those who don't, I would agree, have already decided they are garden tools, but that does not mean we can assume that if x number of babies agree to your terms, then all babies would as well, as long as you reached their sugar threshold. If that were the case, none of us would be here on this thread, debating the tactics and difficulties of landing these sweet little fish. Instead, we would be comparing dollar amounts for services rendered, as all the other sorry threads on this forum do.

What is that old expression, if you are a hammer everything looks like a nail? The corollary might be that if you are a hammer, the only thing you look for are nails. Or perhaps, if you are a hammer, all you ever can see are nails. In any event, I think it is not as simple as we might like to believe it to be. Cash does not guarantee access to pussy, simple as that, unless the only women you are offering it to have already defined themselves in their minds as hoes, so to speak. Think of it as soft targets vs hard targets, or bait casting vs fly fishing.

In the end, it is all about our own expectations. If all we ever expect to find are garden tools, then that is exactly what we will find.

Peace,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1674733]You cannot, in all honesty, tell me that you believe you could offer any random SB you encounter, or for that fact, any woman you encounter, a wad of cash in exchange for sex, and that as long as you offered enough money, she would de facto agree.

Scott[/QUOTE]Mr. Scott,

Let me start by saying I am not judging anyone methods or activities. I am simply introducing some logic into this discussion that contains a great deal of irrational thought. I would like to use your own analogy:"bait casting vs fly fishing" Either way, as a fisherman you convince the fish to bite! When they bite they get caught and when they caught we catch and release or we eat them. No matter which way you choose to catch the fish. No one is going argue that doing it one way or the other is not fishing. Is that the argument you wish to make?

I accept your challenge. No, I cannot offer any woman, or for that matter any SB on the site a wad of cash and have them fuck me. You are correct. And in this particular matter you carry the day.

But check your six my man. Reach for the eject handle Mr. Scott. Because my anti rationalization missile has a lock and is about to blow your argument out of the sky. Hope your wing man marks your position and you get a good chute. I promise not strafe your parachute on my next pass.

Because I challenge you to have sex with any of your current SB's without paying them! If you can't do that then refer back to my original definition of a personal garden tool. Anyone in this forum. Or for that matter anyone on this board who convinces a woman who otherwise would not have sex for money to have sex for money is a PIMP collecting his earnings via his new garden tools pussy. In this forum we search for women that are on the edge of the transition. The goal is to push them across and turn them into our personal garden tools.

Gentlemen, please do not engage in the practice of self deception. Keep it real with yourself.

Go deep & and prosper!

SubCmdr Out!

First of all, let me say THANK YOU to all of you, by reading the information here I just had my first hit couple hour ago!

I been on the DL for a little while, until I saw this thread and decide to give it a try on SD4M (sorry to be a pain but sd4m is the only one I can figure out, what is SA stand for and what other website do you guys use?). Talked to a lots of girls, some out of state want me to send her $$ inorder for her to come to me (not happening). Talked to some girls who want way to much or wants to be a sb without the activity in bed.

Finally, got an email from this 23 AA girl, she is 5'7, nice body which is also in my area. I use the method that was posted in here, ask her how much her bills add up to be in a monthly basis, which is $800. I ask her if I take care of that how often can I see her, she said twice a week. So we end up with $ per visit, and she host!

Had a GREAT time with her, lot of tongue action when giving head and a nice tight kitty. Will be seeing her for a while until I find the next best thing. Once again thank you guys with all the useful info here. I will keep on posting to do my part. Happy hunting!

Ps, there is this crazy chick on sd4m who send me a message on the site with her phone number, I texted her, all I said was "hi, I m so and so from sd4m" and she went crazy and try to blackmail me for 3K, saying she will call the state police. I ignored her, knowing she has nothing on me (I have yet to say anything to her expect I'm so and so from sd4m). Not sure if it is a good thing by posting her screen name here, but be aware of a girl from connecticut with a 203 area code.

[QUOTE=RavensFan;1675273]Ps, there is this crazy chick on sd4m who send me a message on the site with her phone number, I texted her, all I said was "hi, I m so and so from sd4m" and she went crazy and try to blackmail me for 3K, saying she will call the state police. I ignored her, knowing she has nothing on me (I have yet to say anything to her expect I'm so and so from sd4m). Not sure if it is a good thing by posting her screen name here, but be aware of a girl from connecticut with a 203 area code.[/QUOTE]It seems like you have discovered the delights of the Bowl and are on your way! Keep in mind, there will be bumps along the way, and many little fish who don't rise to your fly, or spit the hook before you can land them, but all in all, it is a wonderful hobby.

We firmly believe in outing bad babies here, as long as they are truly bad, and not just pissing you off at the moment, so please do share her profile # or site name. She sounds like a scammer, and anyone in your area would, I'm sure, appreciate knowing who to steer clear of. I think there was someone in the VA area running the same type of scam, or trying to. Good that you kept your true identity hidden, and hopefully used a bat phone to contact her, so you should be safe. Remember, your Sugar identity is your secret persona, and you should never, ever break cover, under any circumstances. It only leads to tears.

By the way, SA stands for Seekingarrangement dot com. Some of us prefer this site to SD4Me, others feel the opposite, and some are on both. It's your call to find your comfort level and best fit. If you haven't already, I would urge you to go back and read this thread from the very beginning. There is an enormous amount of valuable information here, and quite a few entertaining escapades. I treat it like my Sugar Diary, since a hard copy of that, if discovered by my SO, would also lead to tears, lots of them.

Again, good luck to you, never, ever give up, and don't forget to write!

Scott

1. I think she went into my armrest and grabbed a business card. (rookie mistake on my part)

2. She then used that information along with Google to pretty much find a lot of public information on me and my family. Phone number "was" listed, certain web pages were open with work / family information.

3. I can't get into all the detail, but she gave me a few days to accept her offer. During that time, I informed the Mrs, that I had a weird conversation with someone calling asking for business advice and who eventually then tried to extort money from "us" and be on the lookout, since her work location was easy to find on the Internet.

There is more to it, but that is what I'm comfortable sharing.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1674074]I think I speak for us all when I say that I'd like a little more info here. Exactly what story did you tell your wife, and how far in advance did you tell it? How did you play it when the SB called? How did you explain that she knew your name and phone#s? For that matter, how did she get your info? Inquiring minds want to know!

Glad it worked out for you,

Scott[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RavensFan; 1675273]First of all, let me say THANK YOU to all of you, by reading the information here I just had my first hit couple hour ago!

I been on the DL for a little while, until I saw this thread and decide to give it a try on SD4M (sorry to be a pain but sd4m is the only one I can figure out, what is SA stand for and what other website do you guys use?). Talked to a lots of girls, some out of state want me to send her $$ inorder for her to come to me (not happening). Talked to some girls who want way to much or wants to be a sb without the activity in bed.

Finally, got an email from this 23 AA girl, she is 5'7, nice body which is also in my area. I use the method that was posted in here, ask her how much her bills add up to be in a monthly basis, which is $800. I ask her if I take care of that how often can I see her, she said twice a week. So we end up with $ per visit, and she host!

Had a GREAT time with her, lot of tongue action when giving head and a nice tight kitty. Will be seeing her for a while until I find the next best thing. Once again thank you guys with all the useful info here. I will keep on posting to do my part. Happy hunting!

Ps, there is this crazy chick on sd4m who send me a message on the site with her phone number, I texted her, all I said was "hi, I m so and so from sd4m" and she went crazy and try to blackmail me for 3K, saying she will call the state police. I ignored her, knowing she has nothing on me (I have yet to say anything to her expect I'm so and so from sd4m). Not sure if it is a good thing by posting her screen name here, but be aware of a girl from connecticut with a 203 area code.[/QUOTE]I am in Connecticut and on SD4M. Please PM me this girl's profile I'd / Name so I get keep an eye out. Thanks

I'm finding a interesting new type of Garden Tool. This particular Garden Tool only requests that expenses are covered. I could successfully argue that only they truly fit the high level definition of a SB that some would advocate all SB's fall into. But who really gives a fuck? I don't. Because I'm not here to argue. I'm here to learn how to get quality pussy and read the successful stories of how my Brothers are getting it in!

Although the fly in results in a higher initial outlay, it is really nothing different from what I did when I used to fly women in to see me in my youth. I never hesitated to have the airlines deliver quality pussy to me. It is the ultimate outcall! This is something I have been doing for years. Long before I discovered the Sugar World. The difference now. I'm rolling the dice on unknowns. I have done it successfully three times now. With one rather expensive failure. Better than the odds I get in Vegas. And lot more rewarding.

Gentlemen for me this is my preferred way to play. All of the metrics melt away when you have unlimited 24/7 access to all three holes for days on end in a vacation like setting. It simply does not get any better than that. That is right Gentlemen. No sugar. Just expenses. Are expenses sugar? Well you be the judge!

SubCmdr Out!

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1675567]I'm finding a interesting new type of Garden Tool. This particular Garden Tool only requests that expenses are covered. I could successfully argue that only they truly fit the high level definition of a SB that some would advocate all SB's fall into. But who really gives a fuck? I don't. Because I'm not here to argue. I'm here to learn how to get quality pussy and read the successful stories of how my Brothers are getting it in!

Although the fly in results in a higher initial outlay, it is really nothing different from what I did when I used to fly women in to see me in my youth. I never hesitated to have the airlines deliver quality pussy to me. It is the ultimate outcall! This is something I have been doing for years. Long before I discovered the Sugar World. The difference now. I'm rolling the dice on unknowns. I have done it successfully three times now. With one rather expensive failure. Better than the odds I get in Vegas. And lot more rewarding.

Gentlemen for me this is my preferred way to play. All of the metrics melt away when you have unlimited 24/7 access to all three holes for days on end in a vacation like setting. It simply does not get any better than that. That is right Gentlemen. No sugar. Just expenses. Are expenses sugar? Well you be the judge!

SubCmdr Out![/QUOTE]No here is is the type if sb that I usually go after!

Scott and I have been kicking this around on the back channel. But it is a interesting question.

If you can fuck your SB and not provide sugar, is she still a SB?

I would argue she is not. It is the exchange of $ that makes her an SB. No sugar; sex continues; no SB. The relationship has transcended at that point.

Has anyone had a sugar relationship where the sex continues without the sugar?

Go Deep and Prosper!

SubCmdr Out!

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1675765]Scott and I have been kicking this around on the back channel. But it is a interesting question.

If you can fuck your SB and not provide sugar, is she still a SB?

I would argue she is not. It is the exchange of $ that makes her an SB. No sugar; sex continues; no SB. The relationship has transcended at that point.

Has anyone had a sugar relationship where the sex continues without the sugar?

Go Deep and Prosper!

SubCmdr Out![/QUOTE]I have, with one woman. I'm in the minority, I think, where I enjoy the dating aspect (dinner, shopping, etc.) as much as the sex.

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1675864]I have, with one woman. I'm in the minority, I think, where I enjoy the dating aspect (dinner, shopping, etc.) as much as the sex.[/QUOTE]Hi Fellas.

I've PM'd with a couple of seniors on here (F Scott can vouch for me, TDog 69, JimmyJams, RichmondDude, Virginia Guy). Used to be an SM, but had a bad experience where I had to get off the site. Will leave it at that. Am a central VA guy, so any of you Richmond or Cville guys who want to compare notes on the sugar bowl (or other, similar activities) , I've got a couple of regulars and UTRs and am happy to share. I've also at this point now met many of the white SBs (SA only) in Central VA I think. So happy to compare notes, but prefer to PM.

Anyway. To your question. I travel a lot and have had much success on travel dates. Sugar has ranged from $ to $$$$ for overnights. I have 4 or 5 out there right now who like to travel, if I pay for the travel, that becomes the sugar and I get 2-4 nights of fun for just paying for travel. Thing is, I have a bizillion frequent flyer miles (I'm in corporate insurance and travel constantly) , so it usually just costs me the $5-$25 bucks copay on the FF ticket. Good deal.

And I do have one, awesome girl, who I would now classify as being in an open relationship with. Met her on a trip, first couple of nights were $$$ overnights, then she flat told me I was her first SD (not sure I believe that, but don't really care, frankly) , she likes me (because of my awesomeness I am sure) , and going forward its free. So if I am in her town, I stay with her. Or I can fly her to me. She lives in Charlotte, where I go often for work, so it works great. And not only is she shockingly hot, she's actually got a great career and is smart and interesting. Go figure.

That aside. I've had some funny ones. Have one locally right now who will see me for anything from a pack of smokes to $60. She's a young, cute white girl. Just likes sex and appreciates some cash. Who am I to judge? I've also ran into plenty of GPS, and had a few dates where I had to make the girl take some cash in the morning.

Perhaps I am overly charming and young women like me. No, that's not it. I think if you are an interesting, professional, decent looking guy, many of these 20-somethings are thrilled to hang out with someone who will pay for dinner, treat them well etc. I often hear what douchebags young guys are these days. So to any of you young guys out there. You rock!

I have never reached that exalted plain, perhaps the mecca of Sugar pursuits. A Girlfriend! Gadzooks!

I have seen many fine young ladies, and some not so fine, but nary a one has ever returned my gift and offered to give it up for naught. I have never asked either, but there are a few who I think would have seen me had I but asked.

It might be a little risky transcending that fine line between an employee bound by the code of ethics we live by in this hobby (I give you X, you therefore give me Y) and a freehold woman. These contracts are oral if you will, pun intended. The SB then becomes a GF with expectations that could be awkward for the party of the first part, as my attorney friends are won't to say. SD suddenly becomes husband material with financial as well as emotional gifts to give.

Has anyone had one of these moments? Free is always good but did it come with a price?

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1675765]Scott and I have been kicking this around on the back channel. But it is a interesting question.

If you can fuck your SB and not provide sugar, is she still a SB?

I would argue she is not. It is the exchange of $ that makes her an SB. No sugar; sex continues; no SB. The relationship has transcended at that point.

Has anyone had a sugar relationship where the sex continues without the sugar?

Go Deep and Prosper!

SubCmdr Out![/QUOTE]Not sure why but starting to think you guys have too much time on your hands! LOL

But no sugar equals hmmm gf but can you really have a gf without some sugar what a dilemma