"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=ThaiGringo;2112064]I've been exploring and considering the SD / SB arrangement. What kind of budget is a minimum to play? This may be out of my league, but I sure hope not! If anyone can direct me to info, it would be much appreciated![/QUOTE]This may sound like rough advice, but set aside some time over the weekend and start reading from page one.

It'll take you many many many hours, but the posts will be invaluable.

You'll learn from others' mistakes and triumphs and the general progress updates.

It will be difficult to keep track of all the golden insights, but taking the time to read through all the pages will certainly start you off better than going in blind.

You'll make expensive mistakes when starting off, but may be able to avoid some after reading of everyone else's adventures.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2113018]This may sound like rough advice, but set aside some time over the weekend and start reading from page one.
[/QUOTE]Man, I have nothing but respect for anyone who has the patience to do this, at 6300+ posts (some of which aren't brief). I tried once and I might have been able to do it over the course of a few nights if the server was cooperating, but loading the pages can be very slow at times, which just made it painful. The fact that the site sometimes modifies entries so that they don't read quite as smoothly as they might have originally been typed, modifying punctuation and such, can be hard on the eyes after extended periods of reading.

Another thing I found was that as I was trying to familiarize myself with who's who, a lot of the folks who posted early on are either no longer in the game or have new accounts. Maybe my problem is that I actually tried to read (and absorb) rather than just scan for highlights. But I just came to the conclusion the thread has grown too large. Even if I had read it all I wouldn't have retained and remembered everything I would have wanted to.

But yes, if anyone can do it there is lots of good info to be found. If only it weren't all lumped into one monolithic thread and were easier to sort through. Maybe the admins will consider starting a dedicated site for SD discussions, now THAT would really be useful. Not separated by city mind you (since I'm sure many of us have a working pussy-chasing radius of several hundred of miles or so), but maybe separated by different topics that relate to the SD hobby, example sub-topics being things like Cost of Entry, Addiction, etc.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2113032] but maybe separated by different topics that relate to the SD hobby, example sub-topics being things like Cost of Entry, Addiction, etc.[/QUOTE]I was thinking about that too. The bowl has led me to looking at Fitness and Performance Enhancers so those may be good sub-topics as well.

I've realized that I don't have the stamina necessary for the SBs and that's actually been a motivating factor to getting in better shape. With the escorts, I figure for my money, they can do all the work while I just enjoy the (limited / rushed) time. With the SBs, I have to put in work and do it for much longer time period, even multiple times during overnights. I get winded and need to catch my breath, so I'm working on cardio for that. I've had a few instances where I'd get a muscle cramp in my leg as I'm putting in work from behind, so I've been doing in-home yoga stretches. I recall another poster here was a yoga practioner.

And when I'm with a SB all night, I've relied on a mail order product called magic for men that was recommened on another section of this site. The product is now off the web-shelf now but I'm looking into restocking as I'm running low. There's nothing like going at it all night and some more in the morning, then getting a text later in the day telling me how she's still sore down below.

I think this may have been off topic from the addiction discussion that's been quite riveting.

And lastly, I cheated and didn't read the entire thread, but I did do couple hundred I think of this and the local LA thread on the sugar bowl.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2113018]This may sound like rough advice, but set aside some time over the weekend and start reading from page one.

It'll take you many many many hours, but the posts will be invaluable.

You'll learn from others' mistakes and triumphs and the general progress updates.

It will be difficult to keep track of all the golden insights, but taking the time to read through all the pages will certainly start you off better than going in blind.

You'll make expensive mistakes when starting off, but may be able to avoid some after reading of everyone else's adventures.[/QUOTE]I think that's great advice. Thanks. I will.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2113032]Man, I have nothing but respect for anyone who has the patience to do this, at 6300+ posts (some of which aren't brief). I tried once and I might have been able to do it over the course of a few nights if the server was cooperating, but loading the pages can be very slow at times, which just made it painful. The fact that the site sometimes modifies entries so that they don't read quite as smoothly as they might have originally been typed, modifying punctuation and such, can be hard on the eyes after extended periods of reading.

Another thing I found was that as I was trying to familiarize myself with who's who, a lot of the folks who posted early on are either no longer in the game or have new accounts. Maybe my problem is that I actually tried to read (and absorb) rather than just scan for highlights. But I just came to the conclusion the thread has grown too large. Even if I had read it all I wouldn't have retained and remembered everything I would have wanted to.

But yes, if anyone can do it there is lots of good info to be found. If only it weren't all lumped into one monolithic thread and were easier to sort through. Maybe the admins will consider starting a dedicated site for SD discussions, now THAT would really be useful. Not separated by city mind you (since I'm sure many of us have a working pussy-chasing radius of several hundred of miles or so), but maybe separated by different topics that relate to the SD hobby, example sub-topics being things like Cost of Entry, Addiction, etc.[/QUOTE]Speaking of which, what happened to Revvo. You out there dude? Was there a formal goodbye?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2113127]Speaking of which, what happened to Revvo. You out there dude? Was there a formal goodbye?[/QUOTE]I was wondering the same thing. And about Scott.

Yes this thread is huge now gong back a couple of years. But a lot of the same information cycles every 6 months. If you read about 6-8 months of posts of any period in this thread, you'll pretty much be up to speed.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2112651]
With a wonderful night, I still think I am opting for the younger girls. Something about their inexperience and feeling like a mentor that is just too appealing to me to give that aspect up. So as amazing as this woman was, I'm going back to the younger girls. But it was a very nice change of pace with a woman who was a fucking WOMAN in every sense of the word.[/QUOTE]Fantastic update. We're all envious. Well done brother.

I've seen a lot of sugar babies and have had a variety of experiences, but the one thing I actually haven't done yet surprisingly is an overnighter. I've had long dates that lasted into the early morning hours, but I've never experienced wake-up sex with a SB. I tried setting up an overnighter twice last year, but both failed. The first time the girl just completely flaked literally at the last second and never showed up to the hotel, so I had the pleasure of spending the overnight by myself. It was a girl I had already seen but never saw or heard from her again. The other time, I actually decided to cut the date short because I just wasn't vibing at all with the girl and it just would've been painful. I haven't attempted to do overnights since because it's very difficult for me to plausibly stay away from home like that with me being married and rarely going on business trips. I might attempt an overnight this summer with one of my CL girls, but it really takes a lot of careful planning on my part and honestly it's pretty stressful. I think I need to do more legit travels away from home, then it might be easier and less stressful trying to do overnights. But the idea of waking up next to a young hottie who's eager to suck and fuck me for breakfast is the stuff of dreams. I hope to be able to check that off my bucket list at some point.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2113004]All true. All true. I started in the bowl with some funds but as the recession wore on the funds shrank dramatically. Just as I was learning the game, panic set in that I was not going to be able to continue due to my shrinking paycheck. Thats when I started doing the $ dates. More out of necessity than anything else. [/QUOTE]Same here with the CL posts. I had to cut back late last year, so last winter out of necessity I started focusing more on CL posts. CL has a much lower volume of legit pots than the SD sites, so I figured it would be a good way to downshift my sugar activities. And with it being free, it didn't cost me anything to do a variety of experiments just for fun. My downsizing ended up working out for me because I've landed several quality SBs with modest financial needs and I also now have a very cute petite blond assistant. I started thinking out of the box when I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

So sometimes downshifting even has hidden benefits for your sugar activities, not just your finances. Both Hollywood and I have found benefits when slowing down a bit. The key thing though is to downshift before you crash the car. If I just sped through the end of last year, I would have had nothing at all, not even for CL. So I'll say it again, slowing down keeps you in the game longer.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2113136]Fantastic update. We're all envious. Well done brother.

I've seen a lot of sugar babies and have had a variety of experiences, but the one thing I actually haven't done yet surprisingly is an overnighter. I've had long dates that lasted into the early morning hours, but I've never experienced wake-up sex with a SB. I tried setting up an overnighter twice last year, but both failed. The first time the girl just completely flaked literally at the last second and never showed up to the hotel, so I had the pleasure of spending the overnight by myself. It was a girl I had already seen but never saw or heard from her again. The other time, I actually decided to cut the date short because I just wasn't vibing at all with the girl and it just would've been painful. I haven't attempted to do overnights since because it's very difficult for me to plausibly stay away from home like that with me being married and rarely going on business trips. I might attempt an overnight this summer with one of my CL girls, but it really takes a lot of careful planning on my part and honestly it's pretty stressful. I think I need to do more legit travels away from home, then it might be easier and less stressful trying to do overnights. But the idea of waking up next to a young hottie who's eager to suck and fuck me for breakfast is the stuff of dreams. I hope to be able to check that off my bucket list at some point.[/QUOTE]In my last post,in response to your great information on avoiding the addictive aspects to this, you can see where I had a four year affair where neither my mistress, nor my wife (at that time) knew of the other and we resided 6 miles apart. I developed some incredible cover skills.

So in response to the overnight issue, I spent a long period of time incorporating into my business (I ran my own business) a new "branch" of products and customers. This new branch inevitably had to lead me from home on regular routine trips. I built this up over a period of time and then eased into it so as not to setoff the alarms of the SO. I also, over time, brainwashed (for lack of a better term) my mistress into accepting that I took many later evening business calls and conditioned her to allowing me to step outside to take and make such calls. Over time, both women became conditioned and accepting of these scenarios and did not view them as abnormal procedure for me. It's always the abnormal behavior that sets off a woman's suspicions. This allowed me to go on regular "business" trips and when with my mistress, I was able to phone home to reassure the SO that all was normal and I was tired and going to bed for the night, etc, etc, etc. With my mistress, there were vacations, camping trips, hotel stays, staying at her apartment for days at a time. All going unsuspected by the SO. I fed the SO misinformation and left things about the home accidentally that looked suspicious, but when she checked them out, they were legit. This reinforced her belief that I was not up to something. I would intentionally send both misinformation, dead end leads, I had a checklist for checking accounts, making sure no receipts were left around, nothing left in my bag, nothing in my car, had a disposable phone I hid and locked away, knew each person's schedule. This list goes on and on and on. My point is this was with a fulltime mistress, with SB dating, you really only need cover an individual track after a date or two. Develop a full proof plan, one with spontaneous and believable excuses readily available should there be a slip. To reinforce her, leave her something that "looks" suspicious, but then when she checks it out, is totally innocent. This will quickly and affectively damper her prying into what you are doing.

If all that sounds terrible and awful, well, looking back, it probably was. LOL, however, this was a woman who denied me sex 90% of time through my 20's and 30's. And to those who say, "just leave her" well, there was a lifetime of hard work and assets that I alone built and family to consider. Easier said than done. At about 40 I finally became a man, had enough and went and started getting all the sex I could handle. I was a bit bitter from the years of infrequent and poor sex. Within a year, I had some of the best sex of my life with several women and at that point there was no looking back. Fuck loyalty and commitment, I did it for 18 years and never got anything but grief and slapped down for it. No more, I was off and running.

I am new to this entire SB thing, but like anything in my life that grabs my attention like this hobby has so far, I plan to master this. And I plan to adhere to Hollywood's plan so I can sustain myself long-term. I realize I am paying more for the time being. But I will cut back soon on the payment amount and use my skills to get more women, the keep the volume I desire. I cannot sustain $500-700 evenings for long and am aware of this fact already.

Since it seems there is some agreement that there is a lot of value in a dedicated SD / SB forum, any thoughts on how best to request a SD section under "special interests" rather than states and cities, and collectively begin moving discussions into more organized discussions by topic that would be easier to follow (and easier to re-locate and reference old posts on a particular topic later)? I know there is an amateur section there now, but in my mind SD / SB is really its own genre or genre of sexual pursuit.

The more I think about the benefits of this rather than one massive sequential thread under the Richmond VA forum, the more it strikes me as a much-needed action.

I got teased off of a CL ad to "signup" for this. I haven't paid yet, just have a profile. Anyone have success with this?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2113352]Since it seems there is some agreement that there is a lot of value in a dedicated SD / SB forum, any thoughts on how best to request a SD section under "special interests" rather than states and cities, and collectively begin moving discussions into more organized discussions by topic that would be easier to follow (and easier to re-locate and reference old posts on a particular topic later)? I know there is an amateur section there now, but in my mind SD / SB is really its own genre or genre of sexual pursuit.

The more I think about the benefits of this rather than one massive sequential thread under the Richmond VA forum, the more it strikes me as a much-needed action.[/QUOTE]I've thought of this too, however, do we really want say another 200,000 more men competing? I mean, with this hobby, I might tend to be a little selfish. Ha! I, myself, got the idea to enter this angle of the hobby from stumbling upon your little side forum going on here. Imagine if it were front page the amount of more guys who would begin seeking this hobby out? Just a though. A selfish one, but still.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2113386]I got teased off of a CL ad to "signup" for this. I haven't paid yet, just have a profile. Anyone have success with this?[/QUOTE]Scammy. Don't do it. Also the same with any so called verification sites.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2113412]I've thought of this too, however, do we really want say another 200,000 more men competing? I mean, with this hobby, I might tend to be a little selfish. Ha! I, myself, got the idea to enter this angle of the hobby from stumbling upon your little side forum going on here. Imagine if it were front page the amount of more guys who would begin seeking this hobby out? Just a though. A selfish one, but still.[/QUOTE]Well I'm all in favor of anything that boosts female to male ratio, whether in the SD scene or any other scenario, but I guess I don't feel that organizing this thread would draw more men to the bowl any more than it would increase the male population of the Richmond area.

Men with sex addictions are going to be drawn to this site eventually anyway. Not everyone has the disposable income to be an SD, nor does everyone want to be. Some guys who find themselves low on motivation to exercise and eat right would be better off with escorts anyway, so if you look at the number of guys that access this forum and compare the ratio of SDs to mainstream hobbyists I think the SD population is relatively small.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about what would result, but I can't envision that having a dedicated forum puts us any higher on anyones radar than the subject line "Sugarbabies" showing up in the recent post summary as often as it does.

I've read all the posts on how this lifestyle has negatively impacted your relationships with the wife / gf, but my experience has been the exact opposite. A little info about my situation: I have been with my very attractive girlfriend for 7 years. She's an awesome person and I've never connected with someone the way I do with her. Unfortunately, due to her stressful job and other circumstances, her libido is non-existent. Over the past 3 years, we've had sex maybe 10 times. This has caused many arguments and quite frankly, I started acting like an asshole to her because of it. Up until about a year ago, I've never cheated on any of my girlfriends and always said to myself that I would break up with a girl before cheating. But like I said, I really love this girl, and with the exception of the lack of sex, the relationship is really great and I didn't want it to end. So I decided that it would be in my best interested to start having some fun on the side.

It started with me frequenting strip clubs on a regular basis. While this was and still is fun, the obvious problem with this is that you're going home horny. So I decided to step it up a notch and start getting body rubs with a HE. I figured this would be a great way to relieve my sexual needs without really cheating (ok it's still cheating, but you get my drift.) This was and still is something I take part in and enjoy from time to time, but it wasn't enough to really satisfy my urges. So from there, I moved on to visiting escorts. I did this maybe twice and never really enjoyed the experience. Too much worry about LE, STD's, and plus the wham, bam, thank you mam style wasn't really enjoyable to me. Soon after that, I found this thread and a whole new world opened up. I've met and slept with about 5 girls so far and I must say, it's my favorite new hobby. I've gotten to experience sex with all different kinds of girls (black, white, older, younger, etc.) and while some experiences have been better than others, the excitement of searching for a new sb and then getting to explore her sexually is unmatched. Since the time I started in the SD / SB scene, my relationship with my gf has improved drastically. I no longer pester her for sex, we hardly ever fight, and we have a very loving enjoyable relationship. I've had 2 long term gf's before her, and each one ended because I had the urge to fuck other women. Now that I've resolved myself to getting some on the side, I'm happier, she's happier, our relationship is better and to be honest I don't see much of a reason for our relationship to end. Assuming I don't get caught.

" Now that I've resolved myself to getting some on the side, I'm happier, she's happier, our relationship is better and to be honest I don't see much of a reason for our relationship to end. Assuming I don't get caught. " Dog Sun.

Welcome Brother Dog. Your experience is usually what brings us all to the cheating side of town. Inadequate, infrequent or boring sex. If only women would look the other way and allow us the leeway to satisfy our cravings there would be a lot less divorces and a lot happier marriages. It is pretty clear from relationship studies that the excitement phase (lust) of most new couples lasts 1 to 2 years, but at that point of maturation a deeper more satisfying bonding ensues (supposedly) . Some are able to maintain a high level of excitement but most are not. Therefore many couples have poor sex lives and struggle forever until the frustration is too great. Once we discover the world of sugaring, we realize that life without sex is no longer necessary and off the reservation we go. Most of us need to change sugar partners every 4 to 6 months due to staleness of sex with the same person. Sex alone is exciting but in the absence of other attractions it is not enough.

So, wives for life, SBs for sex! Amen!

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2113557]" Now that I've resolved myself to getting some on the side, I'm happier, she's happier, our relationship is better and to be honest I don't see much of a reason for our relationship to end. Assuming I don't get caught. " Dog Sun.

Welcome Brother Dog. Your experience is usually what brings us all to the cheating side of town. Inadequate, infrequent or boring sex. If only women would look the other way and allow us the leeway to satisfy our cravings there would be a lot less divorces and a lot happier marriages. It is pretty clear from relationship studies that the excitement phase (lust) of most new couples lasts 1 to 2 years, but at that point of maturation a deeper more satisfying bonding ensues (supposedly) . Some are able to maintain a high level of excitement but most are not. Therefore many couples have poor sex lives and struggle forever until the frustration is too great. Once we discover the world of sugaring, we realize that life without sex is no longer necessary and off the reservation we go. Most of us need to change sugar partners every 4 to 6 months due to staleness of sex with the same person. Sex alone is exciting but in the absence of other attractions it is not enough.

So, wives for life, SBs for sex! Amen![/QUOTE]I'm as red-blooded an American as you can find. With that said, I travel a lot and I have to say Europeans got a few things over on us old Americans. The wives in Europe will actually approve of their hubbies having a mistress. It's common practice. They typically have two rules, "don't bring it home and don't knock her up. " and they prefer not to have it in their face. A sort of denial thing. In France, Germany, Italy and such, it is as common as a second family car. Although perhaps not cheered about, men discuss their mistresses with their male coworkers around the water cooler. It's not a big deal. And most still cherish and love their wives and provide for them, but these cultures have accepted facts of life we Americans still tend to be in denial about.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2113510]I've read all the posts on how this lifestyle has negatively impacted your relationships with the wife / gf, but my experience has been the exact opposite.

<snipped for brevity>

Assuming I don't get caught.[/QUOTE]It's that last sentence that's really the operative statement.

For the most part your situation is very similar to mine, except I haven't been denied sex in my relationship. She is not as sexual a person as I am or girls I've dated in the past, but it's fine enough and she's there when I need it. I'm the type that always craves variety, but I can control my craving well enough simply because I've been with enough women during my civy dating years that I've got kind of a sense of BTDT. I've come to realize that for every woman that's perfect in bed, there is some aspect to her that makes her intolerable as a partner for me. Some of the best fucks I've had were the ones that I couldn't get far enough away from after I blew my load. And naturally that's not a good trait in any sort of long-term partner, so for someone I'm going to spend lots of time around I need not only someone physically attractive but also pleasant to be around and hang out with. Much harder to find than a good fuck.

I spoke before about it taking me a full month to get back to the point of being an attentive partner to my GF. It was not because I can't handle fucking lots of random hot girls. I've been there before and while I didn't have the maturity to take it all at face value without getting addicted when I was younger, I do now. However what happened during my last SB season was different. The last SB I hooked up with had so much going on (not only perfect looks, great sex etc.) but she also exhibited the GF-like traits I mentioned above, and set off my "LTR material" alarm in a way that probably only 1% of the sugarbabies out there could ever do. By that I mean I can meet and bang hot women all day long, but it's not really that often that I meet girls that are half my age, yet exhibit maturity and intelligence of someone my age, that love sex, and not only movie-star in their looks but also (and here's the key. Compatible with me. My own personality is hard to match up with, and the fact that she was able to really left me in sort of a mind fuck.

So, I hope you never meet that rare SB that both rocks your world but has you looking at your current GF in a different light, but if you do I think you'll relate to the perils I've mentioned.

And yes, whatever you do, don't get caught. Meeting an SB that leaves you feeling mind-fucked is one thing but the feeling fades soon enough. Getting caught cheating leaves deep scars and often some level of irreparable relationship damage.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2113598]

So, I hope you never meet that rare SB that both rocks your world but has you looking at your current GF in a different light, but if you do I think you'll relate to the perils I've mentioned.

And yes, whatever you do, don't get caught. Meeting an SB that leaves you feeling mind-fucked is one thing but the feeling fades soon enough. Getting caught cheating leaves deep scars and often some level of irreparable relationship damage.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the input Jeez. When I first met my gf, I was head over heels for her. She was and still is everything I wanted in a woman (with the exception of the sex obviously.) The fact is, my crazy desire for her has worn off at this point, much like it does in EVERY relationship after a certain period of time. We've settled into the comfort phase. We love each other, but the crazy, almost obsessive in-love feelings are gone. I have enough experience with relationships to know that this always happens in every relationship. Luckily for me, I'm still able to think predominantly with my intellect as opposed to my dick or my emotions, so even if this rare sb does come along, I'm very confident I'll be able to check myself and realize that even if this sb is rocking my world right now, those feelings are going to end at some point.

And fortunately for me, my work and home situation is very conducive to not getting caught. We live seperately, and I own my own business which allows me to work from home. Me and the gf probably only see each other 3-4 times per week, which gives me plenty of opportunity to play without too much fear.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2113352]Since it seems there is some agreement that there is a lot of value in a dedicated SD / SB forum, any thoughts on how best to request a SD section under "special interests" rather than states and cities, and collectively begin moving discussions into more organized discussions by topic that would be easier to follow (and easier to re-locate and reference old posts on a particular topic later)? I know there is an amateur section there now, but in my mind SD / SB is really its own genre or genre of sexual pursuit.

The more I think about the benefits of this rather than one massive sequential thread under the Richmond VA forum, the more it strikes me as a much-needed action.[/QUOTE]I think we can try posting here:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3821-Suggest-New-Topics-Here[/URL]

And hope the admin sees it and considers it. After reading the new posts, I think discreet hobbying would be a good sub-topic where we can discuss our tools and methods to keeping things smooth at home.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2113682]I think we can try posting here:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3821-Suggest-New-Topics-Here[/URL]

And hope the admin sees it and considers it. After reading the new posts, I think discreet hobbying would be a good sub-topic where we can discuss our tools and methods to keeping things smooth at home.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I have posted the request. Please chime in for support on post #50 at the above link if you would like to see our own topic here. I believe it will help cut down on redundant discussion and benefit us all overall by making our posts easier to organize and reference at a later date.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2113445]Well I'm all in favor of anything that boosts female to male ratio, whether in the SD scene or any other scenario, but I guess I don't feel that organizing this thread would draw more men to the bowl any more than it would increase the male population of the Richmond area.

Men with sex addictions are going to be drawn to this site eventually anyway. Not everyone has the disposable income to be an SD, nor does everyone want to be. Some guys who find themselves low on motivation to exercise and eat right would be better off with escorts anyway, so if you look at the number of guys that access this forum and compare the ratio of SDs to mainstream hobbyists I think the SD population is relatively small.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about what would result, but I can't envision that having a dedicated forum puts us any higher on anyones radar than the subject line "Sugarbabies" showing up in the recent post summary as often as it does.[/QUOTE]Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I prefer to keep this topic in Richmond's backyard. It's off the beaten path a bit, which helps keep the noise down and quality high. Yes new posts appear on the front page, but there's 500 - 1000 posts a day on this site. So you have to be an active member on this site to find it and you need to know where to look to find it again.

We're also pretty open with our experiences (which BTW carries its own risks). We're from all over the country, but by having it in a sub-forum based from a modest sized southern city, it makes it harder for a casual observer to stumble on to these SB reports and start connecting dots on someone. They would have to know where to look. For the casual observer we're all in Richmond, Virgina not in their backyard so they'll skim over the topic.

So I'll probably keep posting in the Richmond topic just because I don't like making certain types of posts in the glaring spotlight. Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but having a public structured sugar baby forum and sub-forums would attract a lot of attention and potentially from some sugar babies themselves.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2113510]
Now that I've resolved myself to getting some on the side, I'm happier, she's happier, our relationship is better and to be honest I don't see much of a reason for our relationship to end. Assuming I don't get caught.[/QUOTE]First off, I totally agree with what you're doing because I'm more or less in the same boat as you. I'm a big believer as Fred put it "Wives for Life, SBs for Sex", LOL. It's tacitly accepted in a lot of cultures.

That said, even though you're happier, you haven't actually fixed the relationship. You basically put a band-aid on it. If your SO was accepting of you getting your sex needs elsewhere because she couldn't provide it and you came to an agreement, then it would be truly fixed. But as you said, if you get caught, the whole thing crashes down.

I usually don't comment on another man's marriage because who am I to give advice? But it does seem you truly love your SO and value the relationship. You're not just hanging on for the assets and kids like some of us. Sugaring is a very high risk activity, in terms of how it affects a marriage the great majority of the time it doesn't end well. I'm at the point with my marriage where it's not the end of the world if I got divorced, so if at some point I make a fatal mistake with my sugar activities and I'm exposed I'll be able to accept it and move on. Also my SO is a foreigner, so she has the European view on mistresses, so even if I'm exposed I could probably bounce back providing I didn't rub it in her face or get someone knocked up. But if you highly value your relationship and your SO would be absolutely devastated if she found out you were cheating, then I would tread extremely careful. Because often times there's no going back with certain women after they're aware they've been cheated on. But if you get the vibe that she might be a little ambivalent toward mistresses and such, then you're probably in a good spot. Another thing you could try is bringing up the idea of an open relationship or try a swinging event. I've been jealous of those guys who've managed to get their long-term SO into an open relationship, understanding that our sexual needs crave variety and freshness, yet still holding on to the companionship of a long time partner.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2113965]Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I prefer to keep this topic in Richmond's backyard. It's off the beaten path a bit, which helps keep the noise down and quality high. Yes new posts appear on the front page, but there's 500 - 1000 posts a day on this site. So you have to be an active member on this site to find it and you need to know where to look to find it again.

We're also pretty open with our experiences (which BTW carries its own risks). We're from all over the country, but by having it in a sub-forum based from a modest sized southern city, it makes it harder for a casual observer to stumble on to these SB reports and start connecting dots on someone. They would have to know where to look. For the casual observer we're all in Richmond, Virgina not in their backyard so they'll skim over the topic.

So I'll probably keep posting in the Richmond topic just because I don't like making certain types of posts in the glaring spotlight. Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but having a public structured sugar baby forum and sub-forums would attract a lot of attention and potentially from some sugar babies themselves.[/QUOTE]Wasn't quite sure what you mean about needing to be an active member to find posts. If you launch a browser in private mode (forgets any of your login cookie), launch the root site and click on Frequent Members enter here, you'll see the recent reports list, and "sugarbabies" almost always has an entry there, and actually stands out because the quotes. Where to look (Richmond) is also listed and linked in that same list, so even if they miss it one day they are sure to catch it the next time they even try to pay attention. I don't mean to come off as disagreeable here but I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing, because most web sites have multiple ways of entry.

I won't be bothered in the least if other folks don't have an interest in creation of the new topic. To be honest I do not want to be the front-runner of that effort and I do not have time to play as any sort of volunteer moderator, as I admittedly don't even read all the daily posts here (although I try to, I miss some. I'm only guaranteed to have read any post I write a response to. LOL). I just think that there are lots of sub-discussions and since none of us are ever going to remember everything that's written in the current format or even remotely be able to keep track of who said what, I thought it would be nice to get it in a format to handle the volume better. If not, that's fine too.

As far as awareness of the SD / SB hobby, I do want to point out that there is not a talk show on national network television that does not mention by name sites like SA, SD4 ME etc. Everybody knows about this hobby. Whether or not someone makes a conscious effort to join the hobby is something different. One of my SB's already alerted me to the fact that these SBs do at times discuss and review us (according to her anyway) comparing notes, so there is pretty much no escape there. I suspect we are probably more prolific with our information sharing than they are, but I've met a number of girls on there who were friends with other girls I was talking to on there (hell, it was their friend who talked them into trying the site), yet NONE of them told me they knew each other, I discovered it via Facebook research and seeing each other on their friends list. I saw a show on 20/20 or one of those programs not long ago about a website where women rate guys, giving their full name, discussing what a jerk they are, posting photos, etc. Even providing links to the guys Facebook account. This is one of the reasons none of my SBs have ever known my real name and I highly recommend other SDs with anything to lose practice the same level of covertness.

Anyway, I fully understand if folks prefer to keep posting here. I am only a seasonal SD and I probably get more than I give from this thread alone. It's really more of an entertainment source for me than something that really affects how I do things. I enjoy hearing others' experiences but I don't think my interactions with women have changed that much since I was in high school. The Internet has just made it all a little bit more efficient, especially for rapid out of town hookups.

STDs and unprotected sex have been discussed here, but if anyone specifically talked about the possibility of getting throat cancer from eating pussy (HPV) then I missed it. I figure Michael Douglas had access to some pretty high quality pussy, so it's not like it's a threat only streetwalker mongers need to be aware of. I've eaten an awful lot of pussy in my days, and that includes my SBs. Every one of them. I would never go down on a known pro in a million years, but a lot of guys do, even guys who won't put their schlong in it without a condom for fear of STDs. Does it matter that throat cancer from DATY via HPV potentially as bad if not worse than as getting HIV. Maybe there hasn't been enough in the media about it to scare folks off? Personally this tends to concern me more than most other STD exposure types, personally. Maybe I'm just weird.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2114052]STDs and unprotected sex have been discussed here, but if anyone specifically talked about the possibility of getting throat cancer from eating pussy (HPV) then I missed it. I figure Michael Douglas had access to some pretty high quality pussy, so it's not like it's a threat only streetwalker mongers need to be aware of. I've eaten an awful lot of pussy in my days, and that includes my SBs. Every one of them. I would never go down on a known pro in a million years, but a lot of guys do, even guys who won't put their schlong in it without a condom for fear of STDs. Does it matter that throat cancer from DATY via HPV potentially as bad if not worse than as getting HIV. Maybe there hasn't been enough in the media about it to scare folks off? Personally this tends to concern me more than most other STD exposure types, personally. Maybe I'm just weird.[/QUOTE]There is good evidence that an ingredient in ordinary toothpaste, sodium dodecyl sulphate can kill the HPV virus, so brushing your teeth after DATY may be a good practice. . google it.

I'm not sure what the benefit of a new thread is, but I'm happy having everything in one place. There is a thread on Performance enhancers and I like going there from time to time so I don't have to dig back through the posts. Maybe the answer is searching by title within this thread.

DATY: I will dine at that table for ever. How sweet it is! (usually).

Re: the Richmond market, I would rather rename it the generic Sugarbabies not associated with us here. I am worried that local girls might recognize the stories about themselves and be able to identify us. Perhaps it is not a good idea to let it be know what state / city we each are in. But that train has left the station unfortunately.

Completely concur -- at first it seemed a good idea. But with these thoughts I agree it is better UTR.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2113965]Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I prefer to keep this topic in Richmond's backyard. It's off the beaten path a bit, which helps keep the noise down and quality high. Yes new posts appear on the front page, but there's 500 - 1000 posts a day on this site. So you have to be an active member on this site to find it and you need to know where to look to find it again.

We're also pretty open with our experiences (which BTW carries its own risks). We're from all over the country, but by having it in a sub-forum based from a modest sized southern city, it makes it harder for a casual observer to stumble on to these SB reports and start connecting dots on someone. They would have to know where to look. For the casual observer we're all in Richmond, Virgina not in their backyard so they'll skim over the topic.

So I'll probably keep posting in the Richmond topic just because I don't like making certain types of posts in the glaring spotlight. Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but having a public structured sugar baby forum and sub-forums would attract a lot of attention and potentially from some sugar babies themselves.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2114228]I'm not sure what the benefit of a new thread is, but I'm happy having everything in one place. There is a thread on Performance enhancers and I like going there from time to time so I don't have to dig back through the posts. Maybe the answer is searching by title within this thread.

DATY: I will dine at that table for ever. How sweet it is! (usually).

Re: the Richmond market, I would rather rename it the generic Sugarbabies not associated with us here. I am worried that local girls might recognize the stories about themselves and be able to identify us. Perhaps it is not a good idea to let it be know what state / city we each are in. But that train has left the station unfortunately.[/QUOTE]About the new thread and Richmond. I can see how folks outside of Richmond would like it to remain here as it detaches them a little in terms of future evidence for the SO, and folks in the Richmond market would probably rather the thread be detached from their primary city. As far as benefits there are a number of benefits I see:

1 - Right now there are a lot of other SB threads popping up in other cities. Some of those have posters that don't post here at all, yet they have good ideas, stories or relevant news article to share. If we stick to following this thread we never see them or benefit from the knowledge exchange.

2 - Even worse, I'm afraid the SDs in other cities that are not here yet will start posting here and it will just increase sequential traffic to a single thread, which will only make the thread even more difficult to follow. Once the volume hits a certain level in a single thread, things get really rough to keep up with because there's just no division or organization of information. It becomes a big cluster fuck where, when you do respond to someone's post, it ends up landing several dozen posts down and several pages away from the original message it was replying to.

3 - When I first started participating in this thread, I was wondering what some of the terms like nando 1 meant, and someone wisely suggested I catch up on the history of terminology that's been posted here. So I tried to do that. Yeah right. Like finding a needle in a haystack. I eventually figured out what I need to know but searching for specifics like that in this thread is next to impossible.

4 - Some have said they are afraid a dedicated thread that puts us too high on the radar. I personally believe that because of some of the features of this site, having a gazillion different SB threads across multiple cities actually makes the hobby higher on the radar than tucking all SD discussions into a single thread which can be branched off into sub-topics such as Addiction, Pricing, Hiding the hobby from the SO, New SD sites, Anecdotal Stories from M&G to the FC, etc.

A couple weeks ago there were comments about the status of the females. I discovered yesterday that my newest favorite is also married. So, for 2014 the totals are 2 models, single and way too high maintenance (and mediocre sex) to be married, 2 engaged, and 4 married. Of those, 2 married and one engaged have been regulars, multiple visits per month.

So. Just food for thought as to why your SO is not looking real hard at what you do, or caring that the browser's cookies are being cleaned. She might be getting what she wants from me, or someone like us. It certainly became clear to me in the civi world when I word got out that I was getting divorced 10 years ago that married women cheat just as much as men. They would show up in the middle of the day and all they were interested in was hot sweaty sex. Sound familiar? I know some of you have a thng about that, but being someone that is in the bowl because I like BB sex, the married and engaged ones almost always have the birth control thing taken care of.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2114302]
So. Just food for thought as to why your SO is not looking real hard at what you do, or caring that the browser's cookies are being cleaned. She might be getting what she wants from me, or someone like us. It certainly became clear to me in the civi world when I word got out that I was getting divorced 10 years ago that married women cheat just as much as men. They would show up in the middle of the day and all they were interested in was hot sweaty sex.[/QUOTE]This is very true. It can work both ways. It's something that you have to accept if you cheat, that eventually that pendulum swings in both directions. In my case I have many computers in separate room that my SO has no access to. The computer she actually does use is owned by me so I can spyware it legally without breaking felony cyberstalking laws and watch everything she does (and I do, including screen recording and keystroke logging.)

But then again I only SD about a month out of the year. If I did it year round I would be too distracted to stay on top of a real relationship, and I don't know if she would cheat first or leave first or if I would simply send her packing because the SBs are more convenient and don't come with emotional responsibility, but eventually I would have to give up my relationship with her. I just accepted that and that's one reason I do not play in the bowl at all unless she is traveling far, far away. I almost broke this rule once, coming close to a M&G with an 18 yr old mixed baby that I had already invested a lot of time warming up, but the disciplined side of me decided not to go through with it due to the risks, so I had to cut the 18 yr old loose so that one of you other horny bastards could have her. LOL.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2114302]A couple weeks ago there were comments about the status of the females. I discovered yesterday that my newest favorite is also married. So, for 2014 the totals are 2 models, single and way too high maintenance (and mediocre sex) to be married, 2 engaged, and 4 married. Of those, 2 married and one engaged have been regulars, multiple visits per month.

So. Just food for thought as to why your SO is not looking real hard at what you do, or caring that the browser's cookies are being cleaned. She might be getting what she wants from me, or someone like us. It certainly became clear to me in the civi world when I word got out that I was getting divorced 10 years ago that married women cheat just as much as men. They would show up in the middle of the day and all they were interested in was hot sweaty sex. Sound familiar? I know some of you have a thng about that, but being someone that is in the bowl because I like BB sex, the married and engaged ones almost always have the birth control thing taken care of.[/QUOTE]Interesting in that of all seven SB's I've seen to this point, I have easily and quickly been able to find their facebook and other information via the web. A few offered it and even asked if I wanted to join them on facebook. Obviously that was a big NO. So far of all the SB's I've seen, all have been forthright in the information about themselves they have shared with me. I. E, they have all been honest. In some aspect, being so covert and secretive myself, I have some guilt about that aspect, but having learned many years ago that, "hell have no fury" I will always cover my ass.

As for the throat cancer thing, all I can say about that, is we will all meet our demise somehow one day, life is also about enjoying the ride and while I minimize risk, getting out of bed and breathing presents a risk. I've been mongering for decades off and on and always taken oral BBBJ, but covered up for intercourse, with SB's I'm willing to go uncovered start to finish. So far I've remained disease free. (knock on wood) I've assessed the risk of fucking women under age 30 and it's really quite minimal for us men. A risk I'm willing to assume.

I secured a M&G with a 19 YO little 5'1" spinner for tonight. This one will take some serious work as she has already explained a huge moral issue within herself about this. So I've viewing this one as more of a challenge and a different pace. I'm actually looking forward to the extra challenge. But having read through a few hundred past posts here, it is often the ones who have any issue or seem overly cautious with this, who end up being the quickest and the best. So we shall see.

[QUOTE=ThaiGringo;2112064]I've been exploring and considering the SD / SB arrangement. What kind of budget is a minimum to play? This may be out of my league, but I sure hope not! If anyone can direct me to info, it would be much appreciated![/QUOTE]I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm!

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2114370]I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm![/QUOTE]To summarize with my limited experience thus far, what I can say is each and every situation is a bit unique. And honestly, that is some of the thrill of this game. If I wanted, just add water and get laid, I'd go pro. In this game, the chase is a good deal of the fun. Turning some reluctant 20-something SB into a sex maniac is the best feeling in the world. As for my average, it's been way, way too high and I'm working on this now. My first two were M&G only, before finding this site and I dropped $300 and $200 on each date for simply having dinner and drinks. Bad move. I now tell them up front, I only will pay an allowance and cash per visit when she is comfortable enough to take it to the next level. I do not pay them for M&G and I'm now upfront about that. I've been paying $300 on down to $200 per visit. This does not include some travel, hotel and usually around $150 per night for dinner and drinks. I've been averaging $600-$700 per night because of this and I'm setting up something to cut this down. I am hoping to get a location secure and be able to offer $150-$200 per FC session in the near future.

Always ask the girl what she expects first and then go from there. Always work in an angle of "per visit" payments, never a set monthly allowance. You really just need to be slick and learn how to slowly angle in this type of negotiation. You cannot just come right at them, or you will lose many good girls. Even the ones that just want to have crazy sex and get right to fucking will still play a bit of hard to get and see if you can be a gentleman. So play the game. Once you get a few under your belt, you will develop a strategy that works best for you. Mine is still in the process of evolving.

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2114370]I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm![/QUOTE]RE FC: In my profile and 1st few emails I make it very clear that I expect "intimacy" and ask them what they are expecting to receive as an SB. The ball is in their court. Many will say " I don't know I'm new to this " I will throw out my number which right now is $100 =$ . If you can take them out and have a date in public you have an easier time of it and can get them a little tipsy, flirt, then ask if they would like to get a room for a little "private time " . You can tell if they are "feeling it " Right now I can't date out and about, so I straight up say that we will meet in a Hotel for some romance for $ . Some will bargain, some will go dark, some will say OK but only for 15 minutes.

Average sugar drops the longer you are in this hobby. At first it is easy to be overly generous. Most SBs should be available for $200 to 250 / session, whether 1 hr or all night. Throw in dinner, drinks, hotel you are talking $400+. Not a cheap date.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2114428]

Average sugar drops the longer you are in this hobby. At first it is easy to be overly generous. Most SBs should be available for $200 to 250 / session, whether 1 hr or all night. Throw in dinner, drinks, hotel you are talking $400+. Not a cheap date.[/QUOTE]This and what others have said is spot on.

I'd just like to add, but careful which lines of negotiations you open up. For example, never explicitly say, "I'll give you 100 for 30 minutes in the FC or 200 for 6 hours. ". If you start paying her based on time, then you're literally turning her into an escort and you'll lose in the end because she'll start charging you by the hour and have a clock running in her head. Also unless you're dealing with a UTR or detached BC, avoid giving extra money for specific sexual favors. For example, don't say, "I'll give you 150 if I can give you a facial. ". Because pretty soon she'll start creating a menu and tell you for 100 more she'll swallow your cum and so on. It encourages Nando1 behavior where they try to extract every possible dollar out of you at every turn.

You can negotiate on sexual favors, but just don't directly tie money to it. The point is, you're asking for the things that will make you happy. And ultimately if you're happy, then you'll keep giving her an allowance. Same thing with time, ideally the allowance you give per visit should be the same whether she's with you for 1 hour or 12 hours. Besides with the longer dates, the girl usually benefits from free dinners, meals, and etc. But she's there for you. A good sugar baby will stay as long as you want her to given each other's schedule. Probably the easiest way to identify a Pro is that they usually won't want to spend more than one hour with you unless they're getting at least 300-500. So often times in the early discussions with a Pot, I'll throw it out there that I want to spend a whole day together on a weekend and see how she reacts.

Anyone else get a kick out of Alan Kalter's hot little gum-smacking deer-in-headlights blonde sugar baby that he refers to as his "daughter"? Hehe. She was on again tonight. I think that's only the second time they've used her in a bit. Alan always cracks me up.

So to speak, but I was fairly certain I would tonight. Met a college girl, aged 25,5'2" little spinner I mentioned the other night. Girl had a solid head on her shoulders, very intelligent and well spoken. I did not think there would be any trips to the FC before the date and was not surprised when it did not happen. Not even an opening to bring it up. All small and business talk type stuff. I could tell she was unsure about what she was doing. She did agree to go out again, but I'm not sure how much "courting" I'm willing to do batting 1000% with my last seven straight dates. Don't these girls realize what this game is about?

I had emailed a different girl earlier and when I was out with good girl, I got a text with her telling me I could come over to her place. So I picked the wrong girl for tonight, that's for sure!

Anyone here ever sent the wrong girl the wrong text? Ugh. I did that a few days ago and got little missy all pissed off now. LOL. Funny she is probably doing the same thing, but we are the only ones who are the bad guys, right? I texted an established sugar girl about how great it was to meet her and about the night, obviously she figured out I was out with someone else.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2115020]Anyone here ever sent the wrong girl the wrong text? Ugh. I did that a few days ago and got little missy all pissed off now. LOL. Funny she is probably doing the same thing, but we are the only ones who are the bad guys, right? I texted an established sugar girl about how great it was to meet her and about the night, obviously she figured out I was out with someone else.[/QUOTE]I did this once. Luckily the text sent to the wrong one was such that it was something fairly innocent that could be played off (not a deal breaker). Then I thought to myself, is it really a problem if I lose one SB over the ordeal? Not really. It mattered only because I had such a short time frame to play in, so the real loss would have been the time I had left to fill her shoes if she went dark. Otherwise I was thinking if she did get pissed, there's always one more right behind her. It's one of the things I prefer about the bowl to civy dating. In civy dating you've usually got a real problem when that happens.

For those with an SO, the risk is much higher and the amount of volume and time you can engage in is very limited. So I thought I would start a possible discussion for ideas of ways to elude the ever so clutching SO, AKA wife, etc so we can engage in your favorite and much needed past time. SB-ing.

The way I see there are three levels of escape to allow hobby participation.

The first is a quick visit, usually with an easy excuse being suffice, allowing you to escape the clutches for a few hours. During this time, you might be running a few errands, or sneaking out, etc.

The second would be for an overnight, with or without cell phone contact and expected contact from the SO. If she checks in and expects a response, you are given leeway for time to respond back. Preferably 2-4 hours later, without setting off suspicions. Ideas for this?

The third level and probably most preferred, would be 1-3 nights away, with no expectation of contact from the SO. Meaning you get away for more then a day, without any suspicions from the SO when you don't check in, text back or answer the damn phone for more then an entire 24 hour period. I find this damn near impossible, but if other members might have some creative ideas, perhaps it is achievable. I mean even if you suddenly became an astronaut and were on a mission to Mars, she is likely still going to expect contact.

Now when I was married, I engage in all three, but not without huge fallout and serious fighting and explaining AFTER the fact. Trust me brothers, this method does not work. You need a convincing plan going in.

So lets share some ideas that you may have used in the past?